ISNA 2009: Iltifat in the Qur'an and Grammatical Considerations

[faro0485]

What's the name of this speaker?

[arabcent1]

allah akbar

[Dynaverse]

The choice is evidently yours...

god judges the heart!

i have told you what i believe and why i believe it, because of the CLEAR evidence, i have explained everything properly, and i have challenged you to read the bible..

the choice is yours

alaikum salam brother!

[Dynaverse]

`Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.'

Now if jesus came to earth, he had no REAL purpose as your koran states. Then the deciples he got are equally as incompetent and jesus further incompetent for choosing them...

it looks like... (according to the koran) he made more trouble then he did good???

What a bad choice from god!

Now if you look at it from the christian viewpoint.. things changes allot...

???

???????????

islam has no answer!

[Rauydian]

@Dynaverse 'He had no real purpose as Quran states', obviously you are smoking some thing while reading, or trying to read :) All prophets had real purpose Jesus (pbuh) too, his real purpose was to guide the Israelites and he said it him self and to announce the coming of the real King and final prophet, which he did :)

[Dynaverse]

It is that, if we turn to God and trust in Him now in this life, He will grant eternal life in His Kingdom which Jesus is to re-establish at his Second Coming. Jesus has promised that those who hold fast to his commands will be made like the angels to die no more. They will be made kings and priests and given positions of power and rulership, in fact they will be sharing Jesus' throne.

There is complete assurance in the words of Jesus to his disciples:

[Dynaverse]

but think about it.. moral and spiritual values, jews talk about moral values all the time! how you must be moral in your actions... because to be imoral is to be like hitler or stalin or these great evils who justify murder...

Do you really find christians today to have a absence of either????

if you put up a statement like this, then you have to provide evidence to the counter...

you have to prove Christians are IMMORAL and lack spiritual values.......

tall tall order...

[Dynaverse]

`Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Lets take the word iniquity

"absence of moral or spiritual values"

The jews talk so much about moral values, christians about spiritual values.

True not all who speak in christs name do good and they will be judged...

[Dynaverse]

The Apostle Paul urged the newly baptised Roman believers: `Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.' For `the wages of sin is death...' [Romans 6.12; 6.23]

Is that really words of a evil man? of satan?

[Dynaverse]

The reason for their failure is that in their lives their behaviour toward Christ is exactly the opposite of that required of them. They try to protest their innocence saying that if they had known they were turning their backs on Christ, then their actions would have been different. The parable ends with the statement that the unrighteous `goats' will go to eternal punishment, but the righteous `sheep' to everlasting life.

Remind you of anyone?

[Dynaverse]

You are a selfless good person, who takes pleasure in giving to others, and watching them blossom.

If you say otherwise then you really should look at Christianity today. We have no army, we have no agenda for wold conquest by the sword... none of these things, we give more aid then any other religion or agency...

[Dynaverse]

Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.

[ Now.. i have to point out, hes not talking to the true christians, hes talking to someone else.. ]

If your christian

[Dynaverse]

`Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' [Matthew 25.34-36 NIV]

[Dynaverse]

That glorious throne will be David's restored throne in Jerusalem. [Luke 1.32] There is no doubt that this will happen - the disciples knew that Jesus was to come again; they had asked him what the sign of his coming would be. When Jesus comes he will raise the dead; not every person that has ever died but all those who have known God's laws, whether they have remained true worshippers of God or not. Together with them he will gather the living followers of Jesus to a place of judgement.

->

[Dynaverse]

`I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep....And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.' [John 10.14-16]

Who are these sheep?

obviously christians muslims and jews are raised..

Jews talk about morality, and how important that is. How actions mean sooo much, and how killing in any way is disgusting...

the 10 commandments, true worshipers of god....

[Dynaverse]

that CHARISMA is enough to defend why a religion is right.

In Christianity

We have the facts, we have the evidence, we have the historical manuscripts, we have everything except your belief.

you talk about how YOU WANT TO SAVE ME?

BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WANT TO SAVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!

1 Week, i challenge you again READ THE BIBLE! dont be a coward! read it... dont be afraid! ask god... dont just debate on here...

Courage is whats valued most in the middle east!

[Dynaverse]

Further, you claim ADAM was the same as Jesus... you give absolutely no explanation to who the jews prophesied would come, you just say MOHAMED... i mean come on! Not only that, but ... and this is funny

you quote our PSLAM and twist it so it in strange ways to get across that it mentions Mohamed!

Im just shaking my head... and we havnt even begun!

I mean sure, dont get me wrong, even i love watched debates with Ahmed deedad and sharosh... but because a person is charismatic, dosnt mean

[Dynaverse]

how preposterous is that? then your beloved prophet turns around and on his death bed tells you to persecute the jews and Christians...

how do you answer this?

you dont, you just run around and change the subject, then you point out irrelevant facts to avoid everything... your like a grasshopper!

----

As to your accusation - MUSLIM a person who surrenders and submits to the laws of God.

But allah is not god, allah is the pegan moon god! look it up!

[almao2006]

@Dyn... hahahahahahah.... Brother be cool. Allah call us Moslem. He has a name for us. Every thing on this earth have a name!!! I want to know the name of your Religion!!! Jesus(PBUH) spokes in Aramaic!! Mohammed (PBUH9 is the son of ISAMAIL(PBUH) Be not an ignorant. open your Mind Jesus said on that day many will say to me Lord lord.......You know the answer. ...Go away from me ...i never know you... Read your Bibel...... See the History of islam and compare it to Christianity

[Dynaverse]

Now I challenge you to read the bible, just for 1 week... if you dont like it okay fine, you can do whatever you want!

But... if you are not a coward, i challenge you, 1 week, read the bible!! see what it says! and pray to god to show you which is the truth!

thats all brother

salam

[almao2006]

@Dynavers

Very funny your Explination for Jesus of the Bibel.

Brother: Your God was talking in aramaic!!!

Tell me the name he gave you in Aramaic!!

This is a simple Question. Please help me!!

May be you will yet understand the Word Moslem propably!

Brother i love you. I want to save you!

But be kooperativ!!!!!!!

[Dynaverse]

Cooperative? isnt that what the scorpion said to the fox before he climbed on his back to cross the river?

I mean why? i dont need your rubbish, your not listening to anything im saying

And what does Aramaic have anything to do with this? Jesus may have spoken a wide variety of languages, but of what importance is it? its very far from arbaic.. my goodness, you people even claim that Mohamed was of the house of David..

[Dynaverse]

But he decided to make peace.. and it lasted a longgggggg time.. till today!

Thats what Christianity teaches!!

----------

If anyone ever did bad actions in the name of our religion, then they were truly not christian.

BUT in islam, anyone who does bad, ie kills INFADELS, KUFFAR, then you go to heaven...

what dirty people you are, what small people you are... and you ask WHY do you look down on us?

well... there is your answer

[Dynaverse]

All i see from islam is anger, hate, this dirty look in their eyes, i can feel it!

Why?

why do you have to be like that?

read the bible, jesus says " he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword". Bible: Matthew 26:52:

Look what happened last time, your islam came into Europe, colonized and we pushed you back to Jerusalem for a long time.. and when your conqueror Saladin came and took it back, again we had Richard the lion heart who was able on 3 occasions to reconquer all of Jerusalem...

[Dynaverse]

The Koran claims allot, and points the finger at jews and christians, yet it dosnt stand up to anything that it claims and jews and christians just want to live in peace!

[Dynaverse]

And if you want to talk about Satan then fine,

WHO MADE THE REVELATIONS TO MOHAMED INITIALLY???

WHO??

You tell me... you know, you read your Koran!

---

to be honest brother, it SCARES me to read your book, let alone to talk about it.

its like a bad topic of conversation that i want to avoid at all cost! it gives me the creeps

[Dynaverse]

And how many versions of your koran were burned????????????????

[Dynaverse]

You want to talk about authenticity here? we have scriptures dating back to weeks, months after jesus died...

what can we say about islam?

nothing.

Islam takes the view that jesus didnt die yet it APPEARED to them to be like that...

why?

if he didnt die what happens?

[Dynaverse]

Paul is not a satan! He was originally a atheist and he would REFUSE to believe in Christianity!! he persecuted Christianity until he willingly converted and embraced god.

He talked to the followers of jesus and made completely sure with them, that everything written, was correct.

---

Now my turn

Islam, tell me how the koran was collected? did mohamed write it? how many years after was the koran put together? 10-20? 100? 200?

what about the admission by Aisha that MOST of the koran is lost?

[Dynaverse]

You have no idea how faithful Christians are to god!

So i dont want to hear any more rubbish from you, unless you want to speak to me properly

[Dynaverse]

And to counter what you said about christianity in germany! --->

There is a huge amount of christians in germany, and if it wasnt for the compassion of germans to let immigrants like yourself in, you would not be here voicing your dirty opinions at me.

Imagine i went to a muslim country and asked them WHAT IS ISLAM ageda? why are you spreading this dirty filthy religion, god cursed onto its people?

imagine i said that, what do you think the consequence would be?

id ask you to have respect!

[almao2006]

@dyna...

You blieve in Paul

you are an ignorant Paulistian

Paul is the Satan

Bibel is a fake

[Dynaverse]

Jesus, isus, isa! Its a translation to English, if your name was christos, its christ in english.

Nothing big, nothing to worry about... i mean muslims go to such great lengths to prove absolutely nothing. You have shallow... weak arguments... and even if u had strong once, apologetics just rides them right over!

----

AS for your "bring them before me and slay them" jesus was talking about the end of times! how he will return and judge the jews and nations. Its a parable...a story of a king

[Dynaverse]

if everything means food, to shelter, to anything we can find. Christian people are amongst some of the most compassionate people you will ever meet. So before you accuse us, and judge us, you should try to understand us.

[Dynaverse]

I dont think you understand our religion brother, and i dont think you can force christians off their own land. You have to understand, Europe belongs to the christians. Our agenda is to bring everyone closer to god. Not muslim nor jew nor christian can disagree that its bad.

You say why "poor retarted countries", because christians believe that we can raise the life of everyone in the world and make this place better for us all. We see struggling countries and we go in and aid with everything

[almao2006]

Christians your are and were all times hypocrites!

Why are going to Africa and Asia to call people to christianity?

What about Europe?

Here in Germany Churches becoming Discos!!!

Or just be demolished!

Where are you? Why Africa and Asia?

Why poor retarted Countries?

What is your AGENDA?

In germany there is no Christians???

No one in Germany believe your Garbige!

[Dynaverse]

its the truth, and we want people to be saved.

All people, even ignorant fucks like yourself

[almao2006]

@Dynavers

Yes come and save the 60 Mio german who don't believe in your retarted Believe.

Save the "25 Mio Gays in your Society first!!

Then go to Africa and Asia!!

Here in the West Churches are becoming Discos

You understand Discos!!!!!!!

Or Just being demolished

But More and More Mosques

Mosques are growing daily!!

Shit happend for You!!!

[almao2006]

@Dynaverse

I'm proud to be a Moslem

try to understand the word Moslem first!

Compare btw Christ and moslem

[almao2006]

@Dynaverse

Your Paul was a Satan!

Jesus(PBUH) hat nothing to do with your satanic Religion.

Just take a look in the history and see how you were and how you are.

American like the European are the same. Killing Everywhere in the Wolrd.

Support to Isreal since 1948 against the palestinians. Cause of your Bibel. All the American the good christians support the Zionist in Palestine.

A God who Promess the Zionist that land and have had no idea about What to do with the Palestinians!!

[Dynaverse]

Your a ignorant man.

And why do you say PBUH, he didnt die? even the muslims believe he didnt die?

islam is simply a flaw, upon flaw upon flaw upon bad interpretation with no evidence.

You have a backward religion, i dont know why you even believe half the things you do?

Either way, you can go thrust your sword, and wave it around but remember what jesus said:

"he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword".

[almao2006]

@Dynaverse

You are realy dumb!

We say PBUH also for People alive

Jesus(PBUH) said in the holy Quran: Peace b upon me the day i was born and the day i will died.......

But Jesus of the Bibel said: Bring them to me and i will slaughter them all......

Tell me where did you get the word Christians from?

There is no Word = Christian in the Bibel!

Jesus don't know even the Word Jesus!!

Tell me why there is a Church for Black and Churches for White!!!

[Dynaverse]

by your ramble i take it that your muslim? is that right?

[cnlnat]

oh my word....can you stop saying "right" or "alright "??? plssssss im going crazy

[Ammyai]

If I had been in the audience, I would have shouted... "NO that's not right", many times.

What a load of garbage and muslim propaganda.... muslims always lie.

[MrGrandDragon]

And no doubt you would have been the biggest idiot in the Audience. :D

Thy silly Christian

[Glorthac]

Skip to 7 minutes, nothing happens til 7 minutes.