Where's the Security? San Diego's Border Wall Part 1

[1gofastboat]

This dink is out to lunch

[apacheNsuisse]

The walls aren't going to keep anybody out. They are going to keep you in.

[stealth423]

Mexico has a secure southern border, why can't the US do the same? Good fences make good neighbors.

[integralboy]

Your response is very articulate, but the border fence construction has been completely exempt from environmental scrutiny. Michael Chertoff has waived over 30 environmental laws including; the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Clean Water Act, and the Endangered Species Act. Pollution left behind by smugglers is just a small drop in the bucket. Erosion, animal migration, hydrological changes, etc., have contributed to adverse impacts to an already degraded and sensitive estuary.

[usevolutions]

Effective barriers, i.e. fencing, walls, etc. are a neccesary part of any tactical infrastructure plan. The environmental damage caused by smuggling activity is far greater than any caused by the security solution.

[integralboy]

What exactly is your expertise? First, the fence is not a solution to security. Second, The pollution caused by smuggling will continue. Third, the construction of the border fence is being conducted with no environmental regulatory oversight. etc...

[usevolutions]

Our company serves in an advisory capacity on security, legal, and environmental issues on border security infrastructure projects. A fence is not the end of a security plan, but a necessary beginning. If properly executed in conjunction with patrol and surveillance technologies, the pollution left by smugglers will go away. Though some of the current border fencing has largely been exempted from environmental scrutiny; a good deal of oversight still remains. I hope this answers your questions.

[TubeBoobforyou]

There have been no Mex snipers firing yet.If that did happen, you better believe that the response from the BP would be Massive including the highly trained snipers they have themselves.Smuggling is a business and most on the South side realize that if they go too far, retribution will be immediate and lasting-not good for business. Notedigo, it took more than 10 years to make this project happen. Every nature group and club would have fought this in the courts indefinitely,we needed action now!

[notedigo]

I doubt you have been involved very long, and don't know the history. Not just enviros, but other Fed agencies and State were and are against the project, but Justice (under Clinton) and later DHS refused to compromise. Every1 could have been happy, but ... IMO, compromise and public input are part of the American System. Beginning with Clinton and continuing BIG TIME with Bush, the Exec Branch has overstepped its bounds. This project was meant as a slap in the face of true Democracy.

[notedigo]

Oh, I really would like to see the smugglers in action. Given that there is no way to cross in a vehicle, and BP agents should be able to snag those wearing large backpacks, I can't see how this area could rate in terms of smuggling--compared to Horsethief Canyon, where I HAVE had to hide. But as you pointed out, the area may truly be transformed at night--I may be talking out of my ass. No sarcasm meant. I've got a valid press pass. Can I call your pao to arrange for a ride along?

[TubeBoobforyou]

It's rare but that have been a couple drive throughs in the Imperial Beach area. The extreme weather patterns in the area ie (fog) dictates much of the activity in the area nowadays. Horsethief Canyon! I know it well my friend and you are absolutely correct, it continues to be a hotbed for Illegal Activity. Yes, you can call the PIO office. I will send you a private message...

[JNStMarks]

I know, why not impose laws against anyone who hires illegals. That is the only way that illegals will quit coming here. However, they might come to commit crimes still...It sucks.

But we need fences, that is for sure!

[Bushesunmono]

I don't understand why they are building a triple fence and threatening the wetlands. Why isn't anyone doing anything to stop it? It's like Bush's idiocy has infected everyone.

[TubeBoobforyou]

Because thousands of illegal aliens are walking across those open wetlands doing FAR more damage than a fence ever could. In addition, the Tijuana estuary is FAR from pristine, it is literally a toxic waste dump as the water flows from the south of the border. There is so much toxic waste and pollution coming from the river that Border Patrol agents working there were given Hazard pay!

[notedigo]

State Parks FWS & Sierra Club were glad to have the primary fence. Now, there is almost no traffic through the estuary. I say this as a person that hikes the area several times/week. Because of Chertoff's waivers, there will be NO remediation. If you knew anything about wetland ecology, youd know that the sediment will clog the estuary like bacon grease clogs arteries. As a result, my beaches will be even more polluted--the estuary literally helps remove chemical/biological pollutants

[TubeBoobforyou]

As someone who intimately knows the area, I can ASSURE you that there are plenty of illegal aliens sometimes hundreds per night which stomp across that so-called estuary. You won't see much on a daytime hike, that's not when the action is happening. The TJ river is completely polluted with toxins thanks to our S Neighbor and that will never change. The estuary will continue to be a toxic waste dump. Look S of BorderField Park and look at all the sewer pipes flowing into the Ocean and ur beach!

[notedigo]

True, I've not spent much time there at night. State, County and FWS, have told me that they aren't going through the estuary, so they are either lying or misinformed. I've not seen the evidence of high traffic since gatekeeper. How about a night time tour sometime? Seriously. As far as being toxic, you're right. But testing has shown the water entering the estuary is VASTLY more contaminated than that leaving it. Google Arcata Marsh to see how good wetlands are at removing contaminants.

[TubeBoobforyou]

They are lying to you. Besides how would they know, do you think they actually go down there in the middle of the night to see what's going on? If you want to see the carnage for yourself, go down to the Horse trail on a foggy night which is almost every night this time of year. Hang out near the bridge and you will hear the group's running through the estuary by you all the way to seacoast. As I said before, a fence will have less impact than the human stampedes...

[notedigo]

You know nothing of wetland ecology, and I doubt you care, so nm that. Lets just say there are flocks of illegals trudging through (still doubt it cuz I dont see the evidence--sounds like we r talking about diff. parts of the valley) So why a triple barrier? State, local and other Fed agencies wanted to rebuild the primary, hire more agents, and subsidize their housing--a fraction of the cost. Now, assuming BP jobs arent contracted out, they'll be sitting ducks, trapped between 2 barriers.

[TubeBoobforyou]

The primary does virtually nothing to stop the flow. A simple, easily scalable 8 ft fence full of holes. A triple barrier works, plain and simple. Pre-Gatekeeper 1995 thousands poured across the border daily in San Ysidro. That figure has been reduced to mere dozens/day due in large part to the dual fencing system. There are electronic gates throughout allowing BP agents easy access north of the fence. If the smugglers become assaultive, there are non-lethal and lethal countermeasures.

[notedigo]

I can still envision snipers atop Bunker Hill firing down on the agents as they try to get to an access point. I don't envy them their position. Why wouldn't a new 20' fortified primary+twice the agents have sufficed? I'm NOT pro-immigrant and support the agents' role. I'm AGAINST giving anymore power to the Feds. DHS suspended the rule of law to implement this project--draconian. If you want an all powerful Central government dictating every aspect of our lives, you are probably ok with this :)