Bill Moyer's Journal - Rising Inequality in America - Part 1

[1thommyberlin]

If I were wealthy, the idea that machetes are cheap would currently keep me up at night...

[YouAdii]

Helping each other is key, even on a small level. Share a lunch with a friend.  Share resources. The squeeze is happening all over the world. Get ready to hibernate - together!

[goddamliars]

@muggyspin yes i agree if there is a minimum wage there should be a maximum wage this would clear up any problems in the world pretty quick i mean really if you only live 80 to 100 years and you have kids and there born with 5 billion dollars then they go make more money and this goes on infinatley generation after generation then that intial 5 billion fro 5 generations back never gets spent it just grows and grows and grows its pointless absurd wealth that could end world wars and hunger

[jamietfranklin]

Go out and Raise some Hell!

[wotmot223]

lol, first... what is "rich"? most people are not "rich". Most people are either poor or middle class. What is rich, 60,000 a year? (thats less than 35% of the nation). 100,000 a year? (less than 20% of the nation). 250,000 a year? Less than 15% of the nation. lol... to stupid and lazy to get rich? Get a clue, the vast majority of the "rich" (top 15%) got there because thier ancestors were rich, paid thier educations, and got them an "in".

[moistfaucet]

american socialism ? police, fire department, post office. they are socialist. if you associates Stalin, tyrant, with socialism, can we associates Bush, Liar with Republican ?

[purplestarxxx2002]

You Jealous Marxists make me sick. Just because your too stupid and lazy to make it rich in America you have to try to steal from successful people who are rich. How much does that Communist Ehrenreich make? And Bill Moyers too. I hate limosine liberals.

[sha370z]

people making $60,000 are broke money is debt just paper i need a place to put my stuff than i will buy more stuff 

[1111che]

Interesting that she mentions Larry Summers. Wasn't he behind the bank bailouts, which was the biggest transfer of wealth from working Americans to the ruling class in the history of this country?

[mesastilettodeuce]

@1111che He was definitely one of them. He was behind bank deregulation in the 90s as well. I don't particularly trust him, though I believe that the bailouts kept us from economic armageddon. What i wonder is whether or not economic armageddon is actually worse than what we have now. I mean sure total liquidation of our economy would suck but it would be a lot healthier a means of creating REAL economic progress and healthy growth than what we have now, essentially an economy on life-support.

[RAmiller666]

lets eat the rich! revolt now

[biofit123]

Good

[netster007z]

For those who agree with Ehrenreich, what do you propose?

[zaxx19]

@netster007z

Canada/France ftmfw.

[netster007z]

@zaxx19 I gather you're not in favor of abolishing the first amendment, so rather than answering with all the policies of other countries, how about some specifics.

[21avasapi]

Barbara u are shet

[21avasapi]

Barbara u are devil u are not allad to rod abut Jesus u fceng ante crestchen u are a toilet pepper... Fffffffffffffff Ccccc shet

[coolwhitedude]

Excellent but it sounds like the upper class talking to the imitation lower class ("I've wanted to ask you, how do these women...keep going, day in, day out?")

[mcooley386]

I had to read Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed when I was an undergraduate and I found it to be a compelling story. Another book I would suggest to people that are interested in learning more is The Working Poor: Invisible in America by David K. Shipler.

[pr0gm3r]

How come no one doing anything?

Can we all own a company? then who will work?

If all become the Boss and wealthy, who will work and be poor?

[1dschamp]

Americans are too weak to do anything about the class divide and it will destroy their country. The sooner America is destroyed, the better.

[fecac]

@1dschamp O yeah its the American people, it has nothing to do with HUGE CORPORATIONS STRANGLING US...

[SmashingKinpumps]

If the U.S. falls down, so does the rest of the world cus everybody depends on us!

[xabi2025]

Stalin will come back soon or later. Let's kill greedy rich people!

[TimiHendrix86]

I lean more towards socialism than capitalism, but Stalin was a tyrant.

[mrktwn]

Yeah! Kill off rich greedy people! And then become one! Thats what Stalin did...

[hemming57]

Say no to gas warefare! Barack Obama 2008!

[CaliBeach0007]

Say no to class warfare! John McCain 2008!

[muggyspin]

YOU are an ASS ! McCain DOES encourage class warfare . . too much money is IMMORAL and GROSS.

There needs to be caps on income and the rest TAXED --a 35 room apt in Manhattan RIDICULOUS !

REMEMBER THE FRENCH revolution ! EAT THESE FAT GREEDY FUCKS !

[KripDrip]

whats wrong with having a lot of money??? Isnt the lack of money whats causing poverty and worse off standards of living???

[wotmot223]

@muggyspin caps? ok. now, how do you think you will convince a majority of this nation to support that cap? The amercian people on the whole don't support that idea.

[Sadi2005]

It is a shame that middle class may disintegrate someday. There is always this huge gap between the poor and the rich. The rich are getting richer while the poor....you know the story. There is no comparison to what CEOs get paid today as compare to a generation ago! If you compare their salary to a regular employee in the company... the numbers are startling.

[SmashingKinpumps]

well said. thumps up.

[gabriel5005]

Bush is fighting with Bin Rotten! He should be fighting with those fat cats rolling around with money. Minimum wage jobs aren't anything but useless pay you can't live on. Our politics need to change and stop being bribed. A civil war might happen if people get angry enough.

[RedPandaBoy]

I agree this is a proble m.. and not a problem with a simple answer. Than you for posting this Boydd.. and ignore the people trying to argue with you about this... and point to one person for an answer.. when one person can't do much of anything..

[chewbaca1989]

Inflation=Federal Reserve (private bank) printing of fiat money and robbing the wealth of the labor of Americans.

Ron Paul?

[temujoe]

This doesn't take away from your point at all Maxwedge 12000, it just means that those who are smarter and more able in the US are in a system that treats the average system less well than others; and the very top thrive on this system.

[temujoe]

oops, average "citizen", not average "system", my mistake.

[temujoe]

This is not because of lack of wealth to provide for all, as countries with lower GDP and per capita GDP have accomplished it without a hitch. If you look into the history of unions in the US, you will see that those with wealth in the US are willing to maim and kill their fellow citizens to maximize profit, with the support of the gvt. With that in mind, you can see why normal ppl at present day aren't afforded social services in the US that other countries' ppl are.

[Maxwedge12000]

Do not simply look at GDP, look at our national debt both present and future as well. We cannot afford any more social programs and the ones we have may very well fold for lack of money. 8 trillion dollar national debt, 14 trillion in unfunded upcoming SS and medicare expenses from the baby boomers, huge trade deficits, deficit spending spell, NOT ENOUGH MONEY.

[boydd1826]

there's no point arguing with you at all...you don't understand economics. I studied economics and worked at UBS Painwebber for two years and have written papers on economic theory. I will just say this ...economic systems are created, thats why they vary from country to country. We have the highest inequality in all the industrialized countries and you think that's natural and fine, when its neither.

[Mahou82]

@Maxwedge12000 Who the hell do you think does all this, the rich! Of course we always have problems, thats how they keep the people in line, afraid so they become easier to herd. We need reforms and more social programs, bigger taxes on the rich, caps on executive bonuses. They should require the same standards of employment that we use here on oversea jobs, that way it would not be worth outsourcing jobs.

[Maxwedge12000]

@Mahou82 In case you have not noticed, all of our social programs are going belly up. Social Security will shell out at least 29 billion dollars more then it will take in. Our national debt is 12 trillion dollars, with a annual budget deficit of almost 2 trillion will make our national debt 14 trillion dollars by the end of this year. You live in California, LA both are facing record budget shortfalls and you want more social spending? BWAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA

[Maxwedge12000]

People are not equal in intelligence, ability, skill, talent, education or work ethic. How can one, or why would one expect economic equality across the spread of such people? A doctor makes more money then an 8th grade drop out. So what, that's life. As the economist Thomas Sowell said, "the fact that your neighbor has a yaht in his driveway is not the reason you don't". Inequality of outcomes is natural and normal.

[temujoe]

That's not the point. The point is that inequality doesn't have to be as high is it is or as high as it will be. Natural and normal is relative, and changes. The inequality is different in the US than in other first world countries; there is more disparity between the extremes, and it is not just because the smarter ppl are more valuabe and thus are paid more. The system is such that only the top have financial and health security.

[Maxwedge12000]

Who says inequality is bad? It is not in our COnstitution. Everyone has a shot at the apple, some work hard for it and make good decisions others are lazy, stupid or make bad decisions. No need to fret over this. Economic equality is impossible. Move on to something more realistic.

[boydd1826]

First of all I'm not sure where you grew up, but everyone does NOT have an equal shot. I work in Newark, NJ...one of the poorest places in the US. You have no idea what causes poverty and people to not be socially mobile.

[Maxwedge12000]

Indeed I do know what causes poverty, everyone does. Lack of education, poor choices, making poor decisions, doing drugs, having children out of wedlock, committing crimes all cause poverty. If you want to reduce poverty, try fixing the above problems.

[sleestack]

yeah, yeah, yeah. Just blurt it out.You want to say niggers. The proverbial black woman with the 6 nigglets is preventing us from convincing assholes like you that everyone should have health care and basic comforts.

[boydd1826]

And inequality is bad because people unnecessarily suffer/die so that other people can have far more than they ever need. The actually pity you that you can't answer your own question. You would rather see someone buy a yacht then somone put food in their belly or have healthcare. And why also is it bad, from a realistic prespective...well, when a revolution comes it will feel very real to you, and then you can't ignore it.

[Maxwedge12000]

The economy is not a zero sum game. Me inventing something that makes me a millionare does not cause others to go into poverty. I would have created wealth, not taken it from someone else. The total wealth of an economy is not fixed. And who are you to decide if some people have more then they need? What are going to do, take from them that which you determine "they don't need". Sounds like the soviet union to me.

[boydd1826]

I suggest you educate yourself. First of all the Soviet Union was a state capitalist system by definition. The minimum wage is determined by law, and so is the tax structure, and it is currently designed to bnenefit the rich, which is why inequality is rising.

[Maxwedge12000]

Sure, everything belonged to the "state" and the state decided who got what. The system collapsed and yet some here in the US want to duplicate it or at least parts of it. No thanks. You don't want to be poot, stay in school, don't have kids out of wedlock, don't do drugs, don't do crime.

[boydd1826]

Right, I hate to break it to you but even the US is a mixed economy, not fully capitalist. The Soviet Union was centrally planned state capitalism.

People don't want a soviet system, or a centrally planned economy, they want economic equality

[boydd1826]

Second of all, you said..."don't want to be poor, stay in school." Well, I hate to break this to you by citing those inconvienient statistics to you, but the wages of all workers including those with bachelor degrees are DOWN! Only those with professional masters degrees and those in business are up

[boydd1826]

Colle tution is skyrocketing, and the government spends much more money on corporate subsidies (corporate welfare) than they do on various social programs that go to the poor. For example, even the most profitable companies like Exxon-Mobil get billions of dollars in tax payer money.

[boydd1826]

and why are the laws skewed to benefit the rich, well, who has the power? Certianly not the poor, especially after unions have been destoryed in this country. The "Regan Revolution, and every administration since has changed laws that are hurting the poor and making the rich richer.

[Maxwedge12000]

Again I ask, who are you to decide who has more then they need?

What is the maximum amount you will allow people to retain? Will you tax people at 100% for amounts of wealth you deem excessive? You need to answer these questions so can see the specifics of what you are proposing.

[boydd1826]

Who am I to decide? Who are the rich to decide who gets paid what and who gets what? And sorry the market does not determine it, laws and those in power that create laws do. And if you just wanted a semblence of some equality to return to the system you wouldn't even have to tax the rich that much more than they are already taxed because they have so much of the share of wealth. Don't you think that any given job should be able to pay a living wage? Most don't!

[Maxwedge12000]

Why won't you answer the questions I put to you? I try again, who are you to decide who has more then they need?

What is the maximum amount you will allow people to retain? Will you tax people at 100% for amounts of wealth you deem excessive?

[boydd1826]

You ask me, "who am I to determine who receives what," but you don't question the way things are at all, and who those are in power to decide the economic fate of billions! I have a right to decide the same way as the other 6 billion people on this planet for a socially just system. People should not have to suffer for a few to be rich.

[boydd1826]

We have a progressive tax system and people who make over 250,000 should probably pay 45-50%. I'm sorry if they can afford only two houses on that.

Or, instead of that, currently, people who make over 92,000 do not pay social security...that tax is regressive, and I would make the rich have to pay social security tax and more than 2.5% for medicare...they should have to pay the same as the working poor do for that.

[boydd1826]

But even those reforms would just make it so that people wouldn't have to suffer and might have a fair shot at life by having free education and healthcare. However, for true reform, and a truly equal system, we need a system that does not give the highest renumeration to those who embrace greed and the destruction of others in the name of profit-- like Healthcare execs who deny someone care they need to save a buck.

[Maxwedge12000]

My son goes to college, he works and has worked two part time jobs to help us pay his tuition. Hopefully, he will get his engineering degree and go on to make a good living for himself and his family. To be continued.....

[Maxwedge12000]

Meanwhile, on the other side of town another boy his age dropped out of school in the 9th grade, got in trouble with the law and is a total loser. No way my son, nor I should pay a dime for this loser. He made his choices he can live with the results of his stupid decisions. If you want to donate money to him, be my guest.

[boydd1826]

Do you really think people are born to be better than other people? Because the goes against everything science knows. The fact is if you had been born on the other side of town, or in a different town you and your son could have just as easily have been the "loser" as you call it. Your environment determines how you are.

[boydd1826]

You can be a genius, but if you don't have a good education your screwed. And btw, I want to give people money that they deserve so that they have an equal opportunity at life, not handouts, but a decent quality of life and an investment in their future, so that no one will be a loser because of their environment alone.

[Maxwedge12000]

That is great just make sure you give them YOUR money and not someone else's.

[BelieversinThings]

@boydd1826 Geniuses born in poor neighborhoods are screwed because the government dictates what school they can go to. The vast majority of American families came from other countries with nothing. Over generations, because of the nature of our free market, they've managed to improve their lot and the lot of their children. It was Johnson's Great Society and the government socialist leaning policies that led to the first American generation to do worse than their parents.

[boydd1826]

What's more important to you, preserving an absurd living standard of the very wealthy, or your son and many young people like him being able to go to college for free without having to work two jobs and not have debt. Certain elites trick people like you into thinking you have the same interests as them when you don't. You pay for wars and corporate welfare with your tax money, but barely any of your tax money goes to your sons education. Where would u rather your money go?

[Maxwedge12000]

Boydd, surely you do not believe that anything is free? Education and healthcare are not "free", someone has to bear the costs. It sounds like you suffer from class envy. Feel free to give as much of your money to whomever you wish for whatever reason but don't try to take other people's money for what you want to see happen. Equality of outcomes is not and should never be guaranteed.

[temujoe]

Man, listen to what you're saying. ".. but don't try to take other's people's money for what you want to see happen..". You mean like the government does with your tax dollars to fund corporate welfare and antagonistic/aggressive/illega­l warfare? You didn't read my ensuing comments either; I recommend it.

[Maxwedge12000]

I do not support corporate welfare and I think it should be ended. But in no way does that position cause me to support giving money to people that make bad decisions in their lives. People need to live with the results of the decisions they make. It's called freedom, freedom to succeed and freedom to fail.

[Maxwedge12000]

" What's more important to you, preserving an absurd living standard of the very wealthy,...". That sums up the difference between us. It is not up to me to "preserve" nor to reduce the living standard of the wealthy. Why do you think you have the right to do so. The only explaination that makes sense to me is envy. "They have it, we don't, lets take it from them.

[BelieversinThings]

@boydd1826 When a product is available to everyone for free the quality of that product diminishes. History shows that in unregulated industries like cell phones, home entertainment, appliances, etc. that the rich demand the best since they can afford it. Invariably with time those products, once exclusive to the rich become common among the poor as technology improves. The Govt spends more on education per student than the average private school tuition, yet the quality of education is worse.

[radioactivestd]

@Maxwedge12000 <--- Mindless slave.

[Maxwedge12000]

@radioactivestd <-----------thoughtless shit for brains.

[radioactivestd]

@Maxwedge12000 U mad?

[Maxwedge12000]

@radioactivestd nope, just bored with moronic trolls like you. But that's just me.

[radioactivestd]

@Maxwedge12000 Cool story bro.

[BelieversinThings]

@radioactivestd Maxwedge12000 made an excellent point. You're rebuttal was to call him a mindless slave. Look at both of those posts and tell me which one is mindless. Attacking the person making the point instead of countering the point shows who the mindless slave really is. If you've got no inciteful input, then shut up and learn something

[radioactivestd]

@BelieversinThings You're like a rectum puking slimy word shit all over you chest. You're pseudo intelligence impresses no one. You are a turd.

"What's more important to you, preserving an absurd living standard of the very wealthy, or your son and many young people like him being able to go to college for free without having to work two jobs and not have debt." - boydd1826 3 years ago

[BelieversinThings]

@radioactivestd Preserving the living standard of the average middle class is more important to me than the rich or free college. Community college is very affordable, and students who do well already get grants,scholorships, and student loans. I don't want to compromise my freedom so dipshits can say they went to college. I wont sink to your level by calling you a frustrated loser who blames the rest of the world for your inadequacies.

[radioactivestd]

@BelieversinThings You're like an old sweaty scrotum that keeps falling into the anuses excrement do to drooping into the bowl. You should increase your middle class status by creating a dixie cup drum utilizing your scrote skin and starting your own band.

The simple fact that you, "believe" in things on the bases of your internal feelings renders you a turd.

[BelieversinThings]

@radioactivestd If you spent as much time researching reality as you did coming up with insults you might actually have something to say. You've made absolutely no political point whatsoever, discrediting yourself and reassuring me that I'm on the right track. i understand that it's frustrating trying to support something that doesn't work, I used to be a naive shit for brains too. At some point you'll realize that the only person who should control your life is you.

[radioactivestd]

@BelieversinThings So playing Christian rock in shitty bars is what you define as being in the, "know?" Hey man eat some more fried food and shut your fat bald noise tube. Your music sounds like an ape fucking a news caster in the ear.

You will die fat retarded and obscure; still a slave; still sacrificing yourself to the higher authority and you will indoctrinate your children to love slavery too. Enjoy your fake Jesus sun god you dumb bitch.

[BelieversinThings]

@radioactivestd I see you've just completely given up on providing an argument.It's not christian rock, I'm agnostic. I've had a lot of fun and gotten laid from it, so I've already achieved what I set out to do. You're one of those losers on the side lines criticizing everybody else who's out there doing something. You're frustrated with your insignificance so you act out by insulting strangers. I don't give a shit about you enough to look at your profile, but thanks for checking out mine.

[zaxx19]

@BelieversinThings

Lol at you telling smart middle class kids to go to community college while rich dumbasses like Bush go to Yale. You wonder why China is passing us...look no further. Where has the meritocracy gone?

[BelieversinThings]

@zaxx19 Smart middle class kids will get scholorships and grants. Average middle class kids shouldn't be going to expensive colleges if they can't afford it. They come out with useless degrees that don't impart any real skills fpr the most part while going into debt for tens of thousands of dollars. Bush's parents could afford it because his parents and grandparents worked hard to be in that position. China is passing us because they teach their children science and math instead of liberal arts

[orangejuicewootwoot]

@Maxwedge12000 You are clearly shut off as to how classes function and the mindset a person grows up with depending on whether he/she grows up in the upper class, middle class, or poverty. The underlining nuances and social behavior of other classes are kept secret and one needs a coach in order to infiltrate. One also needs to abandon the mindset of the past along with friends or family. For a country that believes so wholeheartedly in upward mobility, we seem to completely lack it.

[sleestack]

We will always have poor people. No matter how many hard lessons people learn. The poor will always exist. A first world government as prosperous as the usa should care for its poor. Its inhumane not to! The poor are just as important as the rich in the capitalist machine. Everyone is needed in the complicated frame work of the system. Poor people work hard. They just get less for their work. They aren't as valued, but they should be more appreciated.

[Maxwedge12000]

You entire arguement is a falacy. The money that bought the yaht did not come from the money needed to put in someone else's belly. The poor are NOT poor because the rich are rich. How can you not grasp that simpe economic fact? My income was not affected by Bill Gates becoming a billionare.

[Xproletariatx]

I think what you have to understand that the top priority of any company is to maximize profit, and often, that comes at the expense of the worker, who earns a low wage due to this maximization. Its also do to a dormant labor movement because of the timidity of unions these days.

[fileboy2002]

But no one can possibly become a billionaire through his or her own labor. The only way to amass that much wealth is to lay claim not only to your own work, but to the work others do as well. A business owner may indeed work hard. But what can make him or her wealthy is the priveldge of claiming the work others do as their own via ownership.

[sleestack]

its scary that people think like this. Imagine someone with power having this mind set, Ouch. I think everyone should have security, and a shot at good health. All the taxes we have and we end up with neither

[Maxwedge12000]

Moyers is just a left wingnut hack who sees doom and gloom in everything and everywhere especially when we have a republican president. Pay him no mind.

[boydd1826]

right, also pay no mind to the 50 million people that don't have health insurance in this country, every statistic that shows clearly that inequality is rising dramatically in this country, and also ignore comments from someone like the US Fed Chairment when he warned that growing inequaliy could actually threaten the economy soon if noting is done

[sleestack]

50 million people is a LOT!