@TheVisionaryKing That's interesting, especially since the ealiest Heiroglyphic writing we've found was from about 1,700 years before Abraham. So, there's no chance something was found in heiroglyphs thousands of years before. Second, all the hermetic writings date to no earlier than 2nd century AD. That's why the original Hermetic Renaissance imploded. Third, Hermeticism is known to have been influenced by Greeks, particularly Platonists AND Judaism
@tannhaus Again, it's an argument over a time period of limited record. Sequence is not really my point. You like hammering words and logic until those around you bow down in defeat, huh? I'll rephrase to accommodate your temporal sensibilities: I feel that fundamental Hermeticism better expresses the purest profundity of God and reality. Simple as that. Whether its the root of later off-shoots or a stripping away of extraneous matter from contemporaries or predecessors is immaterial.
@TheVisionaryKing If you had said that, I'd have had no problem with it. But, to call Judaism an offshoot or corruption of Hermeticism when Judaism is older, I had a problem with that. The fact you reject Judaism and prefer Hermeticism though...no problem with that whatsoever.
I'm not saying that I'm "right" and you're "wrong". I had begun this conversation in hopes of growing through a sharing of your experience and perspective. I intended to express only respect and interest but it seems you feel like latching on and tearing up over moot points. I hoped to gain some insight and examine the gap between our perspectives, but I feel like I'm in a pissing match. lol. A shame, but c'est la vie. All respect to you and your path. All the Best, friend.
@TheVisionaryKing No...that wasn't a moot point to me. It may seem like it from your POV, but from mine it was a huge slight. But, you reworded it in a way I can accept.
@tannhaus Thanks for the acceptance. The defensiveness you portrayed seems incongruent with the level of enlightenment that I would assume you possess considering the breadth and depth of your apparent spiritual knowledge and experience. Frankly, I find it interesting that anything can still be a "slight" to you. If I called you an "abuser" would you still retaliate with a Goetic counterattack, or would it be a Golem now? lol. I kid. Lighten up, brother. We're all in this together. :-)
@TheVisionaryKing There was a lot more to that story than you know.... but you notice after I did that, it blew up and stopped. I never had to hear from that person again even though they had harassed me constantly to that point. I still say that was a complete success. But, if I could make a golem, I'd never find time for the internet...
We are all in it together. But, I feel the need to set things straight in cases like that. Always have. I wasn't angry or emotional.
@tannhaus haha...yes, a golem would indeed become quite the focus of one's time. Please understand that I do not "reject" Judaism. If I did, why would I be talking to you? On the contrary, I am quite interested in what you have to say since, based on your videos in recent years, in some ways I am currently at a similar point (spiritually, philosophically, etc) that you had been. That you have moved on from a position that I still currently occupy, is what intrigued me. See what I mean?
I think we've discussed this before, and just disagree, but I have to protest - everyone deserves the right to define themselves and to have others take what they say seriously. If Christians say we're monotheists, we're monotheists. Do we have something in common with henotheism? All theology has something in common.
@MrsShirotora Thanks for clarifying. I did this video late at night and haven't gone back over it to see how well I chose my words, but I'll clarify here.
Christians are not monotheists in the way Jews see monotheism. They are henotheists....which is often seen as a subset of monotheism....meaning that Christians are often considered monotheists, but not the "strict" monotheism of Judaism. In other words, the monotheism of Judaism and the monotheism of Christianity differ.
I like your saying - God is the sum total of everything and then some. My view is much the same. I lean toward a Taoist, pandeist,panendeist/theist view. I am a drop of water in the ocean of the universe.
@ModernDeism Yes and even though that belief isn't common in Christianity, it is still present there. Actually, the drop of water in the ocean analogy is one I found from Johannes Eckhart of Hochheim, a 14th century Dominican priest. This is what a website said about him: Meister Eckhart used the analogy of a drop of water (the Universe) in the ocean (God). The drop "is" ocean, has the qualities of ocean, and ocean permeates it. But the ocean is not a drop, and can never "depend" upon a drop.
Excellent entry, friend. I remember in another video, a few years ago before your current Jewish epiphany, you holding up your old, beaten-up early edition of The Golden Dawn by Regardie. The Hermetic philosophy centers entirely on this concept of THE ALL, so my questions is...why did you (seemingly) have to gravitate to orthodox Judaism in order to integrate this concept? I respect your path, of course, and I only ask out of genuine interest.
@TheVisionaryKing Reform Judaism...not Orthodox. But, you're right... that concept is present in Hermeticism. So is Kabbalah in general. That's the thing that attracted me. So many things that I believed came from Judaism. I felt I was going to their source....or at least a more complete source. Judaism, like all religions, did borrow things from surrounding religions. It's impossible to say where every aspect came from. It's not any one aspect that does it for me...it's the whole
@tannhaus Ah, Reform Judaism then--thank you for clarifying that in my mind. I guess it just seems to me that Hermeticism sprouts directly from the very seed of THE ALL realization. The Emerald Tablet is attributed as the "cornerstone" of the philosophy and is centered entirely around this proclamation of the divine wonders and miracle of One Thing. The Abrahamic religions feel like off-shoots and corruptions of the divine understanding of true apotheotic SELF-Awareness. To each his own. :-)
@TheVisionaryKing "The Abrahamic religions feel like off-shoots and corruptions of the divine understanding of true apotheotic SELF-Awareness." That's a pretty baseless claim, but I will say that if you go to JewishEncyclopedia and type in Gnosticism, you will find that Jewish Gnosticism predated Christian Gnosticism by hundreds of years and is still part of tradition. The Emerald Tablet came about HUNDREDS of years later. If anything is an offshoot and corruption, it would be Hermeticism.
@tannhaus "Baseless claim"? It's not a "claim" at all. lol. I said they *feel* like off-shoots and corruptions. That being said, I love offshoots and corruptions...that's the beauty of life. Everything grows. Everything changes. I was speaking only to the singular point of this video, which was wonderful, mind you, and how I was surprised that the Jewish interpretation of this most profound of all understandings seems to be the one that resonated with you the deepest. Max respect, friend.
I'm not sure how *you* make the emphatic claim that the Emerald Tablet came about "HUNDREDS" of years after the origins of Judaism...??? The principles of the Tablet have been found in heiroglyphics predating Abraham by THOUSANDS of years. Of course, this is all irrelevant, considering the time period we're discussing. Sort of like arguing which superhero would win in a fight. I put more trust in my intuition than the *claims* of historical scholars any day. As I said, to each his own. :-)
There are many similarities between the concepts of Ain Soph,
Brahman in Hinduism, and The Tao.
As well as the teachings of 'The Church of All Worlds'
in Heinlein's 'Stranger in a Strange Land'.
"Thou art God, you Grok?"
ZarethShahar 4 months ago
@TheVisionaryKing That's interesting, especially since the ealiest Heiroglyphic writing we've found was from about 1,700 years before Abraham. So, there's no chance something was found in heiroglyphs thousands of years before. Second, all the hermetic writings date to no earlier than 2nd century AD. That's why the original Hermetic Renaissance imploded. Third, Hermeticism is known to have been influenced by Greeks, particularly Platonists AND Judaism
tannhaus 4 months ago
@tannhaus Again, it's an argument over a time period of limited record. Sequence is not really my point. You like hammering words and logic until those around you bow down in defeat, huh? I'll rephrase to accommodate your temporal sensibilities: I feel that fundamental Hermeticism better expresses the purest profundity of God and reality. Simple as that. Whether its the root of later off-shoots or a stripping away of extraneous matter from contemporaries or predecessors is immaterial.
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
@TheVisionaryKing If you had said that, I'd have had no problem with it. But, to call Judaism an offshoot or corruption of Hermeticism when Judaism is older, I had a problem with that. The fact you reject Judaism and prefer Hermeticism though...no problem with that whatsoever.
tannhaus 4 months ago
I'm not saying that I'm "right" and you're "wrong". I had begun this conversation in hopes of growing through a sharing of your experience and perspective. I intended to express only respect and interest but it seems you feel like latching on and tearing up over moot points. I hoped to gain some insight and examine the gap between our perspectives, but I feel like I'm in a pissing match. lol. A shame, but c'est la vie. All respect to you and your path. All the Best, friend.
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
@TheVisionaryKing No...that wasn't a moot point to me. It may seem like it from your POV, but from mine it was a huge slight. But, you reworded it in a way I can accept.
tannhaus 4 months ago
@tannhaus Thanks for the acceptance. The defensiveness you portrayed seems incongruent with the level of enlightenment that I would assume you possess considering the breadth and depth of your apparent spiritual knowledge and experience. Frankly, I find it interesting that anything can still be a "slight" to you. If I called you an "abuser" would you still retaliate with a Goetic counterattack, or would it be a Golem now? lol. I kid. Lighten up, brother. We're all in this together. :-)
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
@TheVisionaryKing There was a lot more to that story than you know.... but you notice after I did that, it blew up and stopped. I never had to hear from that person again even though they had harassed me constantly to that point. I still say that was a complete success. But, if I could make a golem, I'd never find time for the internet...
We are all in it together. But, I feel the need to set things straight in cases like that. Always have. I wasn't angry or emotional.
tannhaus 4 months ago
@tannhaus haha...yes, a golem would indeed become quite the focus of one's time. Please understand that I do not "reject" Judaism. If I did, why would I be talking to you? On the contrary, I am quite interested in what you have to say since, based on your videos in recent years, in some ways I am currently at a similar point (spiritually, philosophically, etc) that you had been. That you have moved on from a position that I still currently occupy, is what intrigued me. See what I mean?
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
I think we've discussed this before, and just disagree, but I have to protest - everyone deserves the right to define themselves and to have others take what they say seriously. If Christians say we're monotheists, we're monotheists. Do we have something in common with henotheism? All theology has something in common.
MrsShirotora 4 months ago
@MrsShirotora God is in all things is foundationally Orthodox Christian. No duality between physical and spirtual, also Orthodox Christian.
Being lumped in with Protestantism causes me so many problems. ;)
MrsShirotora 4 months ago
@MrsShirotora Thanks for clarifying. I did this video late at night and haven't gone back over it to see how well I chose my words, but I'll clarify here.
Christians are not monotheists in the way Jews see monotheism. They are henotheists....which is often seen as a subset of monotheism....meaning that Christians are often considered monotheists, but not the "strict" monotheism of Judaism. In other words, the monotheism of Judaism and the monotheism of Christianity differ.
tannhaus 4 months ago
I like your saying - God is the sum total of everything and then some. My view is much the same. I lean toward a Taoist, pandeist,panendeist/theist view. I am a drop of water in the ocean of the universe.
ModernDeism 4 months ago
@ModernDeism Yes and even though that belief isn't common in Christianity, it is still present there. Actually, the drop of water in the ocean analogy is one I found from Johannes Eckhart of Hochheim, a 14th century Dominican priest. This is what a website said about him: Meister Eckhart used the analogy of a drop of water (the Universe) in the ocean (God). The drop "is" ocean, has the qualities of ocean, and ocean permeates it. But the ocean is not a drop, and can never "depend" upon a drop.
tannhaus 4 months ago
@ModernDeism Of course, it's found in Sikhism, Hinduism, etc.
It's a great analogy.
tannhaus 4 months ago
Its good to have an explanation :)
BespokeGroupUK 4 months ago
Excellent entry, friend. I remember in another video, a few years ago before your current Jewish epiphany, you holding up your old, beaten-up early edition of The Golden Dawn by Regardie. The Hermetic philosophy centers entirely on this concept of THE ALL, so my questions is...why did you (seemingly) have to gravitate to orthodox Judaism in order to integrate this concept? I respect your path, of course, and I only ask out of genuine interest.
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago 2
@TheVisionaryKing Reform Judaism...not Orthodox. But, you're right... that concept is present in Hermeticism. So is Kabbalah in general. That's the thing that attracted me. So many things that I believed came from Judaism. I felt I was going to their source....or at least a more complete source. Judaism, like all religions, did borrow things from surrounding religions. It's impossible to say where every aspect came from. It's not any one aspect that does it for me...it's the whole
tannhaus 4 months ago
@tannhaus Ah, Reform Judaism then--thank you for clarifying that in my mind. I guess it just seems to me that Hermeticism sprouts directly from the very seed of THE ALL realization. The Emerald Tablet is attributed as the "cornerstone" of the philosophy and is centered entirely around this proclamation of the divine wonders and miracle of One Thing. The Abrahamic religions feel like off-shoots and corruptions of the divine understanding of true apotheotic SELF-Awareness. To each his own. :-)
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
@TheVisionaryKing "The Abrahamic religions feel like off-shoots and corruptions of the divine understanding of true apotheotic SELF-Awareness." That's a pretty baseless claim, but I will say that if you go to JewishEncyclopedia and type in Gnosticism, you will find that Jewish Gnosticism predated Christian Gnosticism by hundreds of years and is still part of tradition. The Emerald Tablet came about HUNDREDS of years later. If anything is an offshoot and corruption, it would be Hermeticism.
tannhaus 4 months ago
@tannhaus "Baseless claim"? It's not a "claim" at all. lol. I said they *feel* like off-shoots and corruptions. That being said, I love offshoots and corruptions...that's the beauty of life. Everything grows. Everything changes. I was speaking only to the singular point of this video, which was wonderful, mind you, and how I was surprised that the Jewish interpretation of this most profound of all understandings seems to be the one that resonated with you the deepest. Max respect, friend.
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago
I'm not sure how *you* make the emphatic claim that the Emerald Tablet came about "HUNDREDS" of years after the origins of Judaism...??? The principles of the Tablet have been found in heiroglyphics predating Abraham by THOUSANDS of years. Of course, this is all irrelevant, considering the time period we're discussing. Sort of like arguing which superhero would win in a fight. I put more trust in my intuition than the *claims* of historical scholars any day. As I said, to each his own. :-)
TheVisionaryKing 4 months ago