This is all hypothetical of course since YHWH was a local god of Judea and Yeshua is simply a conglomeration of pagan myths applied to one 'new god". Still a fun brain teaser. Thanks for the video.
The whole Free Will thing is to make us understand that the Christian God won't make us to something (as if we were slaves), however we are responsible for our choices. this is HIS world, not ours. He created it, not us and so as the Almighty Landlord He has the right to evict us if we're disruptive to our neighbors. There's no other place we can live, so it's either choose to be good and live or choose to be bad and die. It does kinda suck, but I understand the issue at hand.
Took me a while to figure this out. I'm not a Christian first off, but I see it this way. The Christian God says "As your creator I have the right to determine what is right and what is wrong for you. Also I have the right to determine whether you get to live in paradise with people who love me and follow my commandments or not. Hence you do in fact have free will to do as you please, but I also have the free will not to allow you into my paradise where your actions would be disruptive."
Hahaha, I really started laughing at "How long is the prison sentence?" "Forever. And there are guys in there who will punch the s**t our of you every day" :D
@paramattic70 You reject the idea of God, and then u convince urself that there is no conseqeunce by the denial of Gods existence. Notice that this is the common atheistic argument and it is usually accompanied by the outrageous insistence that "even if there was a God I wouldnt wanna be in heaven with Him".
Nah. God took all the pain that we deserved upon Himself, when He absorbed all our evil. People choose hell and still God tries to convince them to change their minds and receive His grace and help. ANd meantime, all of you idiots still despise his help.
bigger. Unfortunately, someone else already pretty much had the house for themselves but a few days before they rented it they pulled out for some reason. I got the home and am now living in a bigger, cheaper and much more nice neighborhood. I thank God for that and continue to research more about God and his teachings. Ive had alot of bad things in life and since ive trusted in God my life is now very easy :) Sorry for posting alot of replies!
I suppose you do have a choice though, believe what you read in the bible and the new testament are real, or pass it off as just an old story. I personally believe its true but believe or not its your decision. Ive prayed alot to God over the years for things to help me in life. One example of a big thing in my life was that i was being evicted from my house and i prayed to God I'd get a new one soon. Anyway a few weeks later i found a house up for rent which was cheaper and-
While it is true you can't prove God or Jesus exists and it relies heavily on faith. I believe he exists because of what Ive been taught and what Ive taught myself, Ive been reading the new testament and it speaks about Jesus life and the miracles he performed and alot of stuff he spoke about to do with the second coming seems to be happening today. Theres alot of truth to the new testament and when I'm reading i understand all of the parables Jesus spoke and taught.
There is free will to follow God. There are two choices, life through Jesus or the second death. The choice is very easy yet all of you choose death and then get angry at God for giving you death. God isn't punishing you for not following him its your choice and you choose death over life. If you don't want death choose God, if not, refuse him. For not following him you are choosing death. He gives you what you choose. You know not obeying him ends in the second death but you still refuse him.
@GriiiiiiinD in order to make a choice, there has to be clear choices. in order to reject something, there has to be something to reject. this idea of god and jesus, they are not proven because they rely on faith. we dont know if god is real or not, so how can we choose to accept it or choose to reject it.. theres nothing there to choose or reject! if jesus was proven and existed today, then we would be choosing to reject him. but since its not clear if he exists we are unable to make a choice.
Everyone has free will to choose God, whats so hard about saying: Jesus i accept you into my heart as my lord and Saviour? God knows who he will save and who will refuse him, but to the people who will refuse him he offers guidance and truth until they die. Jesus said: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor but the sick" I have free will and i chose Jesus, i lived a life of sin, prayed to God for forgiveness and truth and after reading and researching alot about him I'm happy in life
Man has no free will to choose or not choose God,God chooses who He will save before the foundation of the world.All men are on their way to Hell from birth.God chooses to save some for His glory alone,if He didn't all would go to Hell since no person would ever choose Jesus by his own free will,in fact,no person has the ability to choose Jesus,that's why He has to do the choosing.
What happened to liability? If parents tells their children, "you have the choice that you can go outside, play and possibly brake out neighbors window, or stay inside and do pointless tasks", what do you think the children will choose? When they brake that window, isn't it up to the parents to pay for it because they could foresee it happening?
@LaBrick1 *Points a gun at you* I am all loving and never want to force anyone... but if you don't give me all the money you have now, I will shoot. See, you have freedom of choice whether to give me your money.
@LaBrick1 the issue is that the tie guy doesn't have to put you in jail for not paying, he just does so everyone will obey the tax laws, so basically the choice is there, but if you don't make the choice he wants, he gets pissed off and punishes you, even though he said it was your decision.
Yeah you can do what you want but if you don't kiss my ass and do what I want you to do you're gonna pay! lol aah christians stupid version of "free will".
I personally don't believe in an afterlife of any kind. Even if there were a heaven its the last place I'd want to spend eternity. Endless boring sermons? I had enough of that in church when I was a kid. I stopped going when my parents stopped forcing me at 14 and I will only set foot in a church for a funeral or a wedding. And I don't want a christian burial when I die, either.
HOLY SHIT!!! this is the first time I watch this videos and is amazing how there is someone out there that makes videos to express similar thoughts to those that i had.
Every time someone talks to me about DOG i mean GOD, I always ask about the free will thing. I give them many examples similar to this ones and they still dont get it. now when someone tries to talk about god, I will have this videos rdy on my phone, that why I save saliva.
Don't you have better things to do ? oh wait of course you don't your an atheist who doesn't want to praise Yahweh and YET you still are. Whole videos of him. Praise Jesus. REPENT
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
=> for more information type in google "TheDeenShow"
Gods "free will" is an illusion. If I asked you if you want steak or chicken for dinner and said it's up to you to choose. That's not a choice! I have made the choice and all you get to do is decide between MY choices. Free will implies choosing between options YOU have given yourself.
To everyone who is interested in truth, philosophy of religion, and theology. NonStampCollector and I are engaged in a debate at seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and drop down link "NonStampCollector." Feel free to read the arguments and contribute your views and opinions. Hopefully this marks a long line of steady debating. The current topic is whether or not a god who gives ultimatums is superior to one that does not and what is/or does that god look like. Read, comment and enjoy
@crashpilot2 i am not new to the subjects and ii have heard christians say similkar things like "to translate the bible properly you have to be an educated scholar" it is a common christian statement.... tell me.. why would i think you was being sarcastic? as i said, sarcasm only works if you know the person it is aimed at. dont underestimate the stupid that can come from a christians mouth.
@crashpilot2 anyone who knows you might have known you was being sacrastic but i do not kinow you so to me you just sounded like yet another stupid bible nut, there is no way to know of anyone is being sarcastic in TEXT when you know nothing about the person, if anyone i know about would have said that i would have known he was being sarcastic IF i knew that it contradicted his belifes but i do not know you so do yourself a favor and quit trying sarcasm in TEXT with strangers.
So are you angry that God set a standard for living or are you angry that people think there is a God? If you're trying say there is no God then why argue the theological issue of free will? On the other hand if you admit there is a God and are just upset that he put rules and consequences in place, then it seems you don't understand the concept of "God". To put it another way, you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Funny video though... hope you sort out your confusion before it's too late.
@jeffmobile1 You've outlined two possible motivations there, but you haven't hit on the right one yet. In other words, you've presented a false dichotomy.
I know what my motivation for this and my other videos is, but you haven't figured it out yet, and I'm not going to tell you what it is, you have to work it out for yourself. Think beyond your false dichotomy.
@NonStampCollector I think your video is fairly accurate. It seems to me you want to show that there is not really a free will choice but an ultimatum. So suppose your right, would this not make fairly simple that we should embrace God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. I know what your aiming at, but it really does make it seem like not choosing God is a stupid decision given your satire. I really enjoyed your video.
@seekethtruth Why on earth would a loving god give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment for non-compliance? This isn't a god worthy of the name. Yahweh is a ridiculous character, obviously made up by humans.
If in doubt, turn the idea around. Why would a god NOT give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more far better answers to THAT question. To cut a very long story short, if there is a god, it's not Yahweh of the bible. That god's an absurd mess.
@NonStampCollector Lot's of questions to think about. Let's assume that what is recorded in the Bible is accurate. In the Old Testament, we learn things about God's character. That He is just, loving, kind, etc. Since He is just, He must punish sin. Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and as a result transformed and the world along with them. God had a plan however, to save mankind from this depravity. He came down Himself into the world to die for it so that all my be saved who believe. . .
"Let's assume that what is recorded in the Bible is accurate. In the Old Testament,...."
STOP!!!!! NO!!!!! Let's NOT DO THAT!!!! WE'VE ALL DONE THAT A MILLION FUCKING TIMES!!!!
Why do theists always assume that atheists haven't thought of doing that, and that they need to TEACH us what's in the bible?
No. Write five comments starting with: "Let's assume that there is a god, but that it isn't anything like Yahweh. In fact, it is immeasurably better in every way." Go.
@NonStampCollector So how do you know it's not anything like Yahweh? I am simply saying I have not come across anything that is better than the Christian faith. This does not guaranty it's truth or anything like that. If it is the truth than it is the truth. If not, then what is, or what is the way things really are. It's better to live your life believing in God and find out your wrong, then it is to live your life not believing in God and finding out your wrong. Pascals Wager.
@NonStampCollector Hey, I was not trying to start a fight or anything. I was just trying to give a little ground work since we were using theistic terms, and in case other people were reading our posts and did not have clue about what we were talking about. I was hoping that we could reason about these things. Usually you can learn more from people who disagree with you than you can from those who agree with you.
@NonStampCollector I'm a big fan of your videos, you know how to get your point accross and you make it funny and entertaining at the same time.Nonetheless, it seems most christians still don't get it, and they think there's some way of interpreting the bible to be a foundation for morality.I'm sorry but there's no way to justify mass murder and rape,and no context which makes owning another human being as property the right thing to do.It's funny how they assume we don't know what's inthe bible
@seekethtruth Two things. Assuming what is recorded in the bible to be accurate is a very strange thing to do, because we KNOW lots of stuff in there is false. We know the world is not flat for example, we know there was never a flood. Every book of the OT is full of stuff we know is false, so why assume it to be accurate?
And secondly, lets say God really did speak to Moses, and he faithfully relate all that was said. This is still no reason to assume this 'God' fellow was speaking the truth.
@Superslemmet Actually history shows that there was a flood. Sea shells and fossils have been discovered on top of the Andes in South America and on most of the high mountains in the world. I know we are limited in space to write so respond on my website under the section I have title rebuttals to Qualiasoup which has an area where you can respond. I would be interested to here more about how "OT is full of stuff we know is false." If you can give a some claims I can then evaluate them.
@seekethtruth Ok, first, the entirety of Genesis can be more or less proven to be false. That should raise our scepticism at the very least. In what way does fossils on the top of mountains prove the flood? All it does it confirm our observations that the tectonic plates are moving. We can measure that, and feel it (earthquakes), and the bible version (static earth) goes against everything we can observe.
I'm a physicist so I don't think we have much to discuss. I'm interested in the real world.
@Superslemmet How can Genesis be proven to be false? What parts? Tetonic plates moving is an observation, but it is still a logical possibility that there was flood that is collaborated not only by the Christian faith but many other cultures in the world that have similar flood stories in their historical tradition. Since your a physicist, I would be interested to hear how you think the world began. Pleas commit under my link "Truth Series" at seekethtruth.weebly.com. This will allow us to argue
@seekethtruth A simple example of what is wrong with genesis. God created the seas before the stars, but it has been shown that a H2O molecule consists of just that, H2O, and O is created in the nuclear fusion inside stars, so stars need to be around long enough to explode and spread their stuff across the void for water to even be able to form. So genesis is wrong.
In science, first you look at the evidence, then make up a theory. What you are doing is the exact opposite.
@Superslemmet The most important point that is that A.) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Whether God created seas before stars or stars before seas is irrelavant. What is important for truth is whether or not that God actually did create the heavens and the earth. Whatever details Genesis got wrong are irrelevant. My faith is based on the Bible but it is not based on the inerrancy or infallibility of the Bible. There is a find and big distinction between the two!
@seekethtruth But if the bible really was the inspired word of God, should not at least some of the parts we can test be true? Is the filter to use when reading the bible that all 'details' we can check are irrelevant, and all claims which we can't verify are true?
An example, if Jesus was God, why would he tell people they can cure leprosy by killing two birds and smearing themselves in their blood?
I think things like that should make anyone sceptical of the bible.
@Superslemmet It's interesting to note that science confirms the Big Bang, and this has scientist upset because they have to confess that something had to start everything. This has refuted their previous belief that the universe has existed for eternity which allowed them to hold onto their dogmatic belief that God does not exist. It's funny to see them try to find any other explanation but God. According to science, the simplest answers is usually the best one you go with. Why not go with God?
@seekethtruth How can you argue that the simplest explanation is the one with God? That idea is so convoluted and complex, and by definition unexplainable, I hardly think it should qualify as a 'simple' theroy.
Supersymmetry is a much easier theroy to grasp (it's just 'right hand side = left hand side' really), it makes predictions, and it has much explanatory value.
As it is now, the laws of physics and chemistry takes us back to the very beginning of the universe without the need for God.
@Superslemmet I believe the theory's that Richard Dawkins and Danniel Dennet are trying to dig up are way more complex they just simply stating, "well maybe God," in order to not have anything to say about God at all. The laws of physics and chemistry need God. Who else is holding all of these laws in place? That's a serious question that scientist are pondering about; why are the laws in this universe acting in this way when they don't have to be?
@seekethtruth These 'laws' are just correlations in nature. They are like mathematical/logical correlations. 1+1=2 is a law in the same way as the laws of nature. They are not laws in the human sense, they are just descriptions of how things interact.
But sure, we don't know Why nature interacts the way it does. Maybe the universe could have different laws? Just because we don't know this yet is no reason to throw in the towel and say "God did it", because that is exactly what appeals to god is.
@seekethtruth Dawkins and Dennet work/ed in totally different fields (biology and philosophy), I guess the only theory they have in common is that we can understand ourselves and our world at a fundamental level.
By claiming there is a god, you are claiming a deep understanding of this reality and our place in it will forever be beyond us, because the idea of god is beyond rationality and observation.
That can be true, but I hardly think it is something to strive for.
@Superslemmet I believe there is a God but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, then we will have defeaters for all of our beliefs. God has designed us with cognitive faculties for discerning truth and knowledge in an appropriate environment which will lead us to truth beliefs. If God does not exist, then we do not have a designer for our cognitive faculties and we cannot know truth. Any belief we adopt will have a defeater because we are never sure if our cognitive faculties will lead us to truth.
@seekethtruth Part 1. First, I find it interesting that you, without any evidence, can make claim about what intentions God may or may not have had as a designer of us and our environment. You simply don't know that he intended for us to be able to discern truth in the world. You only reach that conclusion based on what you think a rational designer would do, that is, if you yourself was the designer. But isn't it said that man cannot know the mind of God?
@Superslemmet Actually this is what we Christians believe and I think it corresponds to the way reality real is. However, the atheist is at a lost because he or she will have defeaters for all of their beliefs. Because they don't believe they were "designed" by a designer with cognitive faculties that are functioning properly in a world that leads them to true beliefs. So if naturalism is true, than any belief you hold will have defeaters and you cannot know anything.
@seekethtruth I must admit I don't understand what you mean by "defeaters", at least in the way you are using the term. I have faith in humanities ability to separate truth from fiction, by the simple explanation that there is a huge survival benefit for being good at it.
You have faith in that your idea of god designed you with cognitive abilities made for discerning truth from falsehood. I think your "defeater" is as insurmountable, because you can never know that he actually did that.
I have plenty of evidence about why I believe the way I do. I just don't think it is necessary for this discussion. Again everything comes down to faith, no matter what the belief system. One of these belief systems correspond to the way reality is. Discovering the evidence for each belief systems is something that we poor mortals must engage in if we want to get as close to the truth as we possibly can. Even then it takes faith. Even Jesus said that if we seek then we will find. Keep seeking.
@seekethtruth I just don't understand why you would conclude "Christianity" out of all the thousands of religions, is the correct one? The bible is full of contradictions and things that are simply wrong, it make claims which are testable, and which have failed the scrutiny of impartial tests, and if you study the religions that were in place before Christianity, you will see that it appears more as mishmash of the myths and ideas that were floating around the region long before the year 0.
@seekethtruth Part 2. Secondly, if being able to discern truth has had a significant effect on the survival rate of individuals, those who are good at it should have had more children, and those who are bad at it should have died, by trying to eat rocks in the belief that they were food and so on.
It requires almost no pondering to see how useful the ability to discern truth from falsehood is, from an evolutionary perspective.
@seekethtruth Plus I find animal and human sacrifice sick and I bet you actually do to, so if you do find sacrificing horrid and sick why would you want to worship a being that would relish in both....I am also more moral the your Fake Pretend biblical god because I would never ask anyone to ruing perfectly good meat just because I found the smell pleasing, And I would never ever ever ever feel the need to have anyone beaten tortured and killed. I am glad I know there is no god...
@Superslemmet Maybe we can debate about this on my blog seekethtruth.weebly.com. That way we can actually state an argument. Maybe we can debate about science and God. How does that sound? Just make a comment on the link Truth Series and let's kick this thing off.
@seekethtruth You've asked me to contribute to your blog, but you still haven't responded to the challenge I left you with 4 weeks ago, namely: "Write... starting with "Let's assume that there is a god, but that it isn't anything like Yahweh. In fact, it is immeasurably better in every way."
You don't need me to spend my time on your blog, you just need some imagination. If you can't or won't do that, then why should I spend even a minute of my time on your website?
@NonStampCollector Hey, I believe I restated the main points of your argument and answered them on my web site, seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and the link NonStampCollector.
@seekethtruth Here's one reasons why a god would not need to issue ultimatums and threaten its creations into following it:
Because it might be so big that it wouldn't need anything from anyone.
To want or need would be to lack, and such a god would be by definition all encompassing, and thus not lack anything, and therefore be free of want or need.
A god that has needs would be less fully god than a god that didn't have needs, because it lacked nothing.
@NonStampCollecto Actually the message of hell is given to those that thought they were going to heaven and werent, namely the Jews. If you dont want heaven and dont want God then threatneing with hell will be moot. Many christians are only christians bc they dont want hell. WAKE UP CALL! Unless you want God your not going to heaven.
The good news is that those that admit that theyre hatred of God is evil and want to love God but admit they cant bc of evil, Jesus will live in and change.
@NonStampCollector As I understand it, it’s not god inflicting hell as a punishment on you, hell along with al suffering is an unavoidable consequence of man’s freewill
To stretch your analogy the man from the tax office is not going to send you to jail that’s just a consequence he has no control over, but is giving you the option to avoid
Who is responsible for the fact that hell is the 'unavoidable result' of free will, and not simply painless annihilation, or even explosion, or metamorphosis into a lower life form, or calcification?
So Yahweh gets all the credit for fine tuning the constants of the universe, and the parameters within which everything happens, and heaven, ... but has absolutely nothing to do with hell. Well how fucking convenient.
"Who is responsible for the fact that hell is the 'unavoidable result' of free will" it just is nobody set it up like nobody set up that thirty-seven added to forty-four will give you eighty-one
@zzyzx0788 Did you say that with complete sincerity? And if you did, you don't know a modicum about physics, let alone science, or else you wouldn't even THINK about saying something so incredibly unintelligent.
@255ad Nobody set up that 37 added to 44 gives the sum of 81.
Just tell me why satan would have rebelled against your god, why your god wouldn't stop satan from interfering with humans, and why none of this has been explained by your scripture.
@255ad What I'm asking is, why would anything which knows the Christian god knows everything, and is all powerful, try to rebel? Surely this satan character must be incredibly stupid, since it knows that the Christian god already knows what will happen in the future and has the power to stop anything.
Then, tell me how and why that same god would let satan interfere with his creation, before humans were aware of right wrong (this is, of course, assuming the Bible is true).
@57worldwide "since it knows that the Christian god already knows what will happen in the future and has the power to stop anything" to the the first part no he wouldn't know because of freewill, to the second part I don't know why god can't stop satin and I've never been given a satisfactory answer and that's why I'm not (besides the fact I'm not going to believe something because it can't be disproved) "A CHRISTIAN"
@255ad This god does know the future. It knows everything, what has been, what is, and what shall be. Ever heard the phrase, "Everything that happens is part of god's plan"?
There is no reason why evil needs to exist in order for us to have free will. The free will defense is extremely weak, and easily demonstrated to be so. Sometimes you get tld this, "If you had evidence of god, you wouldn't have free will."
Somehow, one of Jesus' apostles needed evidence and was given it. That argument fails.
even god can't know the future in a non deterministic universe
"There is no reason why evil needs to exist in order for us to have free will" if people have freewill they might choose to do....or at least try to do evil things, isn't that obvious?
if god can see the future and knows what will happen even before you do, there is no free will in that because you will act out, like a puppet, everything his 'divine plan' says.
@NonStampCollector Exactly! It's infuriating. I'm surrounded by Xianity and I can tell you that the very thing you expressed is believed in my part of the US but SANS IRONY AND SATIRE. It's madness. Logical horse blinders.
Anyway keep up the good work b/c your stuff is EXACTLY what many of us ex-theists/ex-Xians ("eXians"?) are thinking.
@NonStampCollector Post 2. Throughout the Old Testament we see a relationship of ultimatums with His chosen people the Jews. After a generation or two of following God, they would forget God. God would send a prophet to give them an ultimatum; repent and turn from sin, if you don't I will punish you. No one is exempt from disobeying God's moral law, not even the Jews, and we see this relationship. Jews had to sacrifice animals to atone for their sins and follow God's laws. The Jews failed.
@NonStampCollector Post 3. God had a plan to save mankind though by dying Himself to bring man back into a right relationship with Him for those that believe. This stresses the emphasis that God loves all of mankind and does not desire that one should be lost. But God is not going to force us to follow Him. It's our free choice to do so. So that is a brief summary of the Christian story. Can you think of a better story or a better God that you can tell us about? see next post.
@NonStampCollector Post 4. This God seems worthy of following. Though He is only worth following if the Christian faith accurate portrays God as He exist in reality. But if He does not then, disregard. So what alternatives do you posit to the Christian faith? What can you sell me to accept your beliefs over mine? The Christian faith handles many difficult issues better than any religion I have ever researched. If your going to have faith in something, why not it? see next.
@NonStampCollector Post 5. If any being could give ultimatums, should it be absurd to think that God would be one of them? Especially if the ultimatums were in line with His character? What's so hard about this? A God who would not give ultimatums would be a weak god and not worthy enough to talk about. However, we have the contrary with the Christian faith. There are two base things we can chose in life. Follow God, or not. and their are an infinite number of choices we can make in those two. .
@NonStampCollector You made an interesting statement I would like to hear about, "Why would a god not Give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more better answers to THAT question." Can you elaborate what those better answers are? You can respond to my website at seekethtruth.weebly.com
@NonStampCollector You can respond to a section on my website I have dedicated to you "NonStampCollector" where you can respond to some of my questions. This will gives us more room to lay out our arguments and will allow others to contribute as well. Again you maid a statement, "Why would a god NOT give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more better answers to THAT question." I think everyone would like to hear you elaborate more on your statement. What arguments?
@seekethtruth I have one, If we had no fear of lake of fire then God would know our Devotion to him was Real and Not out of Fear of torture. I really don't get the debate anyway, I mean if a tyrant took over the country and said serve him or be locked in metal prison cell over fire pit for the rest of your life then millions would comply just to avoid torture but no one would consider him worthy of your love, so why do you consider this god worthy he is no better making the same threat.
@robtay1963 You bring up an interesting point. Suppose there were no negative eternal consequences like burning in flames for eternity. What makes you think people will follow after God? I think consequence is a key component in devotion to anything. Whether you follow the laws of your state, king, or God. If there are no consequences, then everyone would truly gratify themselves in life and not God. People live like this already. But in the real world there are consequences for our actions!
@seekethtruth Laws to protect people and there property are set up for those who are self serving and don't want to get along in a civilized society, but that has nothing to do with worship. I don't worship cops or the president, but I respect them and the laws. I also strongly believe that most rational people don't obey the laws because of consequences but because we have compassion for others and don't want to kill harm or steal....I have morals but I won't bow down to pretend man in sky.
@seekethtruth But to the point of the Bible, I don't believe it is true at all I don't believe in any thing supernatural. But according to christian faith, If a man were to be exposed to christianity but refuse to believe it, yet for all of his life the worst thing he does is lose his temper a few times and tells a couple of white lies, but he raises decent kids never cheats on his wife and gives to worthy causes, he is going to burn forever in hell for not believing, but but cont.....
@seekethtruth continued,,,,But a mass murder who kill and rapes 30 teenage girls and goes to prison for life and kills a few inmates who make him mad, and then in the last 6 months of his life finds Jesus and turns his life around while still in prison and then he dies he goes to a wonderful happy place...sorry but if that is your gods version of being moral then I am more moral the god because i would just kill the bad guy and let the Hard working nice people in regardless of what they believe.
@NonStampCollector I have analyzed your argument and responded to it at seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and the drop down link, "NonStampCollector." The first post was the original laying out of the argument. The second post "The NonStampCollector Responds" has your argument followed by my analysis. Hopefully this will mark a long steady line of healthy debating.
@NonStampCollector I will be responding on my webpage that way I do not have a character limitation, and likewise if you want to rebuttal you wont have a character limitation as well. seekethtruth.weebly.com under the link "Truth Series" and the drop down link "NonStampCollector."
It's interesting that almost all comments I read from religious folks end up with something like this "hope you sort out your confusion before it's too late." Kind of getting annoying too though at the same time. It's the same sort of deal as is described in this "free will" video... "you either choose to accept Jesus (out of your own "free will" of course) or you burn in hell... and we are not interfering with your "free will" by imposing a penalty on the "wrong" choice"!
Ya, but you're "accepting" him only out of fear of punishment... doesn't mean that you ACTUALLY believe in him, which is the requirement, is it not? Believing in something is not a choice that you can consciously make! And you can't accept something if you don't believe that it exists (hence why I put accepting in quotations in my first sentence). If you don't actually belief in him, then you are not accepting, you are just pretending!
Ya, but you're "accepting" him only out of fear of punishment... doesn't mean that you ACTUALLY believe in him, which is the requirement, is it not? Believing in something is not a choice that you can consciously make! And you can't accept something if you don't believe that it exists (hence why I put accepting in quotations in my first sentence). If you don't actually belief in him, then you are not accepting, you are just pretending!
@jeffmobile1 I'm angry that, someone makes up rules that they either will not, can not, or don't choose to enforce. Oh, But after you die you'll get what's coming... Just nonsense and a Total waste of rules.
Hell fire is Gods light having the wicked see it as if it was fire. That will happen around the city of God revelation 20-9. KJV, an ever burning pit of fire will not be perpetually burning around the city of God. The redeemed will not be singing, tip toeing through the hot coals back,and forth, from the city of God. The established Organized churches have been lying to you about all things.
God only gives good things. Hell is not Being punched every day. Hell is the death of the soul.
Ezekiel 18:20 ,K JVThe soul that sinneth, it shall die. John 11:26 ,And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? He is talking about the soul. John 3:16:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. no one in hell to punch anyone. Hell is ultimate dead end for the soul.
3:07, When we do good God is in us to do good. When we do Good it is God in us doing the good. When that happens whoever has passed from death unto eternal life. This video is of the devil slandering God who is Jesus. The one saying we have a choice is saying pay tax or die. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves with any amount of Money. Jesus in us does it all. Just don't reject him. Reject Jesus,and do bad calling it good. That is fatal to the soul.
The consequences of sin is death of the body. Do not forgive, and God will not be in you to forgive. Have Jesus in you , and whoever will forgive resulting in no consequence of not being able to paying an unpayable debt. Jesus pays the debt. We do no good on our own. it is Jesus in us loving, and forgiving being all the positive soul saving character traits of Jesus in this body that dies. Don't show that forgiving love to others, and the debt of death to the soul will not be forgiven.
@pnutgallery514 When a human does bad persecuting wishing death, and killing humans, lying, doing bad things condemning humans wanting to give fire, an whoever will get fire missing the best gift you could ever get. Have no jails or armies killing humans with all loving as one, and we would have arrived to be transported to heaven - the beam me up Scotty for Jesus will be Scotty. Die, and it will seem to you that you never died or fly off this earth when Jesus comes back with a loud noise.
Hahaha... this doesn't even make sense to me. Only when you know God, really understand why things are the way they are according to Him :) I don't get the point of taking the time to do these kind of things, honestly, if He doesn't exist for you... why to bother?
@dolceprincipessa1 Because people are brainwashed by this rubbish and they spend their entire lives believing it. I have a 15 year old sister who wants to think for herself, but she is too scared to admit the Christians God likely does not exist because she doesn't want to spend eternity in his personal torture chamber just in case he does. She lives her life in fear of a fairytale! This is were it becomes my problem. Your religion is bullshit, quit deluding yourself!
@seekethtruth Demonstrate that it is true and I will take your case. If your best comeback is "it might very well be true", then anything anyone has ever believed is true, might very well be true. With that mindset, you have no way of measuring or differentiating absolute truth. The best theories are the ones that are falsifiable. The entire concept of a God isn't. You'd think an all powerful magnificent creator of the universe would know that right? There must not be one, or one who cares...
@MannyXj1 According to the law of non-contradiction theism, atheism, and religion x (or whatever you want to put here) cannot all be true. This is where faith comes in (though we can believe something in faith and be wrong). I believe that the Christian faith is the greatest religion in the world because when comparing it to every other religion out there, there is none that compare to it. God loves us and freely gave Himself to die for our sins. We don't have to do anything to receive that gift
@seekethtruth Funny how you would even dare say theism is non-contradictory! Moreover how you go on saying that atheism takes faith. Faith in what? Then you say your belief takes faith but could be wrong. But since you think it's the best religion in the world (utterly opinionated) it must be true. Once again you've demonstrate that experience is completely subjective, and has no foothold on determining absolute truth. This playground debate is over, because I'm obviously dealing with a child...
@MannyXj1 LOL! Well, I don't remember saying that theism is non-contradictory, though I believe it is not. I was simply saying that according to the law of non-contradiction, It cannot be the case that, Atheism, Christianity, and Islam are all true. Only one of these (or something else) can be true in reality and not all of them. I think it takes a lot of faith to see all of creation and to embrace atheism. A lot more faith then it takes to embrace Christianity or Islam. see next post.
@MannyXj1 Post 2. I was saying earlier from my research, that Christianity is the best religion in the world. Given that it best handles the issues of why our world is the way it is, that we need God, that God died for us and salvation is free to anyone who embraces Jesus, and how it addresses the issues of pain and suffering, the mountains of scrolls in support of the Bible, etc. From my research, Christianity handles these issues better than any other religion out there. See post 3.
@seekethtruth You are entitled to your opinion as anyone else! I'm not saying that isn't the case. But I was pointing out how childish it was of you to say that faith and opinion prove your god, or any god for that matter, exists.
@MannyXj1 That's not what I was saying. I was saying that any belief system requires faith to believe in it. It does not guaranty the truth of that system. I was simply saying I have not come across anything that was more convincing to me than the Christian faith. This does not mean it is necessarily true, it could be false. But there is an objective reality, or the way things really are. I just think it's probably closer to the Christian faith than anything else that is out there.
@seekethtruth Okay thank you for clearing that up. I completely respect your view now because it's what you believe. I just can't stand the people that assert their view as absolute truth. At least you are humble and accept the fact you could be wrong, just as I do. I misunderstood what you were initially trying to say.
@MannyXj1 Post 3. Read my posts carefully, instead of reading it haphazardly and then attacking my character by calling me a child. There is an ultimate reality, a way things really are in life. There are a number of religions out there that try to explain this reality. They all cannot be true. Only one of them is true. People take a leap of faith in these religions (including Atheism) when they think they found the one that is closest to reality. It all takes faith to believe in one of these.
@MannyXj1 Post 3. Read my posts carefully, instead of reading it haphazardly and then attacking my character by calling me a child. There is an ultimate reality, a way things really are in life. There are a number of religions out there that try to explain this reality. They all cannot be true. Only one of them is true. People take a leap of faith in these religions (including Atheism) when they think they found the one that is closest to reality. It all takes faith to believe in one of these.
@seekethtruth reply 2. Can you tell me some other religion that out does Christianity as far as a theme of redemption and grace? Hey I am open to ideas. I just think the Christian faith is the best thing the world has though it could be false. And if it is false, then who cares! The Christian faith would be the only religion worth living for. I suppose if Islam is true, why not strap a bomb on my chest and go kill Americans and get 70 plus virgins. What worthy alternatives are left in the world?
@YodaLN My god? I see, so because I disagree with a ridiculous statement you insist on defending then I must be one of those religious people you hate. Quite a line of reasoning you have there. Just goes to show that there are plenty of sheeplike atheists as well, ruining it for the rest of us. For your info, my field is computer science, I just happen to find philosophy and religion interesting. Imagine that.
@YodaLN The brain changes according to stimuli, both internal and external. This is how cognitive behaviour modification/therapy works. If you'd have read more than the first sentence form the wikipedia article you might have realised this. You can change your beliefs, according to your own will. I get the feeling I'm wasting my time here.
Give me your box of chocolate chip cookies or I'll gang rape your daughter with my friends and murder her in front of you!.... But it's your choice, friend. ^___^
It wouldn't bother me to be in heaven knowing there are people in hell, but niether of those places exist anyway so maybe I'm just not taking the question seriously enough.
i honestly think this is probably the STUPIDEST analogy EVER. We as humans DO have free will just like ALLL of you atheists have taken the choice to not believe in God or Christ and sit here watching stupid animated videos dripping with blasphemy... Yeah there is Hell if you don't accept Christ into your life or believe in his word, but none of you do. you made the choice not to believe in that or Hell, so to you there is no consequence?
@smilemarmar God creates choices that lead to hell, yet is omniscient so he knows hat choices people will make, and exactly who is go to hell. How can you call a being who creates hell for torturing human beings for eternity, all-loving? Could you enjoy heaven knowing that billionsl including people you've known and maybe loved, are being tortured mercilessly for eternity? Because it would bother me.
@strangestdude Actually, God did not create choices for hell. He created the possibility of evil when He created humans with free will. It's humans who actuate those possibilities. The Bible says' the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his minions. Not for people. But hey, in the end, you end up going where you want to go. Accept the Grace that God has given to you today before it is too late. Salvation was freely offered up. Is there a better alternative?
@strangestdude Why is it so hard to comprehend that a "just" God will allow people to go to where they chose to go? I can't say for certain if I will enjoy eternity in heaven while billions suffer (heck I may not be in heaven). What's so hard to comprehend about this? That a "just" and "good" God will allow people to go where they want to go? Which is reflected in their choices in life.
Are you asserting that human brains violate the laws of physics? If not, then what you call free will is a direct product of natural law. That is, in your worldview, a direct product of something your God created. Why on earth would the God view us as free in that setting? He would have created nonbelievers specifically for the purpose of fueling the fires of hell.
@smilemarmar: This is what you people seem incapable of understanding: it's not that people have "made a choice" not to believe in your religion, they just genuinely don't believe on the strength of what they've heard. Choice doesn't really come into it. I don't, for instance choose not to believe in Santa and neither would a sane, rational person choose not to believe that Stockholm is the capital of Sweden. You only believe because of childhood indoctrination and you're sacred of hell.
Ah, "free will"... the biggest nonexistent Biblical tenant ever. Used in every argument by Christians, but not a single time in their actual holy book. Still trying to figure out exactly where this one even came from.
@crashpilot2 god wrote the bible so people would have to go to college for 4 years before they would be able to read it??????? do you realise the scale of stupidity in that? isnt it funny how the most educated people on the planet who have spent a lot more than 3 years in education do NOT believe the bible, yet most americans who have no education at all DO believe it? that throws your "lets pretend the bible is clever" argument right out of the window.
Could one if the people that hate these ahteist comedy videos so much explain why you keep searching for them, clicking on them, and watching them. (Not Rhetorical).
why are your stick figres naked?
HubertCumberdale22 8 hours ago
This is all hypothetical of course since YHWH was a local god of Judea and Yeshua is simply a conglomeration of pagan myths applied to one 'new god". Still a fun brain teaser. Thanks for the video.
Medewtysenu 15 hours ago
The whole Free Will thing is to make us understand that the Christian God won't make us to something (as if we were slaves), however we are responsible for our choices. this is HIS world, not ours. He created it, not us and so as the Almighty Landlord He has the right to evict us if we're disruptive to our neighbors. There's no other place we can live, so it's either choose to be good and live or choose to be bad and die. It does kinda suck, but I understand the issue at hand.
Medewtysenu 15 hours ago
Took me a while to figure this out. I'm not a Christian first off, but I see it this way. The Christian God says "As your creator I have the right to determine what is right and what is wrong for you. Also I have the right to determine whether you get to live in paradise with people who love me and follow my commandments or not. Hence you do in fact have free will to do as you please, but I also have the free will not to allow you into my paradise where your actions would be disruptive."
Medewtysenu 15 hours ago
and there are guys in there that will punch the shit out of you everyday
skatejam7 1 day ago
I'm so glad your hobby of not collecting stamps does not take up ALL your time and you can make these awsome videos.
dXoverdteqprogress 1 day ago
@infernalone666 it is free will because he doesn't interfere. He knows, but doesn't act.
mnabbott2015 1 day ago
why is everyone nude in this video?
Plausiblesarge 3 days ago
@Plausiblesarge The taxman isn't nude, he's wearing a tie.
dandersononutube 3 days ago 9
Hahaha, I really started laughing at "How long is the prison sentence?" "Forever. And there are guys in there who will punch the s**t our of you every day" :D
JohanTW 1 week ago
Somehow I just knew Jesus was really a tax collector in disguise. He fits the profile.
ChipArgyle 1 week ago
*me* *slams the on Jesus's nose*
Poodleinacan 2 weeks ago
Forever, until you die, and there are guys in there that will punch the shit out of you.
zofspade 3 weeks ago
I don't reject God because there is no God.
paramattic70 3 weeks ago
@paramattic70 You reject the idea of God, and then u convince urself that there is no conseqeunce by the denial of Gods existence. Notice that this is the common atheistic argument and it is usually accompanied by the outrageous insistence that "even if there was a God I wouldnt wanna be in heaven with Him".
j919or 3 weeks ago
@j919or "and then u convince urself that there is no conseqeunce by the denial of Gods existence"
This is a variation of the burden of proof fail.
You don't need to be convinced that some god is NOT gonna punish you. You need to be convinced that she WILL.
The burden of proof lies with the POSITIVE claim, not the negative one.
If the positive claim can't be supported by evidence, the negative one is assumed.
If you can't prove the existance of pixies, we assume they don't exist.
ScientificBob 3 weeks ago
hahaha
HelFKiernan 3 weeks ago
god is a sadist end of story.
a084123 1 month ago
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@a084123 ""god is a sadist end of story""
Nah. God took all the pain that we deserved upon Himself, when He absorbed all our evil. People choose hell and still God tries to convince them to change their minds and receive His grace and help. ANd meantime, all of you idiots still despise his help.
j919or 3 weeks ago
@jubjubmh316
bigger. Unfortunately, someone else already pretty much had the house for themselves but a few days before they rented it they pulled out for some reason. I got the home and am now living in a bigger, cheaper and much more nice neighborhood. I thank God for that and continue to research more about God and his teachings. Ive had alot of bad things in life and since ive trusted in God my life is now very easy :) Sorry for posting alot of replies!
GriiiiiiinD 1 month ago
@jubjubmh316
I suppose you do have a choice though, believe what you read in the bible and the new testament are real, or pass it off as just an old story. I personally believe its true but believe or not its your decision. Ive prayed alot to God over the years for things to help me in life. One example of a big thing in my life was that i was being evicted from my house and i prayed to God I'd get a new one soon. Anyway a few weeks later i found a house up for rent which was cheaper and-
GriiiiiiinD 1 month ago
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@GriiiiiiinD "prayed to God I'd get a new one soon"
Right, and if you hadn't prayed for it, you'ld surely be a homeless bum now right?
"I prayed for rain and lo and behold, it rained 2 days later".
Give me a break.
ScientificBob 3 weeks ago
@jubjubmh316
While it is true you can't prove God or Jesus exists and it relies heavily on faith. I believe he exists because of what Ive been taught and what Ive taught myself, Ive been reading the new testament and it speaks about Jesus life and the miracles he performed and alot of stuff he spoke about to do with the second coming seems to be happening today. Theres alot of truth to the new testament and when I'm reading i understand all of the parables Jesus spoke and taught.
GriiiiiiinD 1 month ago
There is free will to follow God. There are two choices, life through Jesus or the second death. The choice is very easy yet all of you choose death and then get angry at God for giving you death. God isn't punishing you for not following him its your choice and you choose death over life. If you don't want death choose God, if not, refuse him. For not following him you are choosing death. He gives you what you choose. You know not obeying him ends in the second death but you still refuse him.
GriiiiiiinD 1 month ago
@GriiiiiiinD in order to make a choice, there has to be clear choices. in order to reject something, there has to be something to reject. this idea of god and jesus, they are not proven because they rely on faith. we dont know if god is real or not, so how can we choose to accept it or choose to reject it.. theres nothing there to choose or reject! if jesus was proven and existed today, then we would be choosing to reject him. but since its not clear if he exists we are unable to make a choice.
jubjubmh316 1 month ago
@GriiiiiiinD "There are two choices, life through Jesus or the second death."
Right. And when I hold a gun to your head and ask me to give all your money, you have the choice to say "no".
ScientificBob 3 weeks ago
@CBALLEN
Everyone has free will to choose God, whats so hard about saying: Jesus i accept you into my heart as my lord and Saviour? God knows who he will save and who will refuse him, but to the people who will refuse him he offers guidance and truth until they die. Jesus said: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor but the sick" I have free will and i chose Jesus, i lived a life of sin, prayed to God for forgiveness and truth and after reading and researching alot about him I'm happy in life
GriiiiiiinD 1 month ago
@GriiiiiiinD "Jesus i accept you into my heart as my lord and Saviour" It's not hard. It's pointless.
ScientificBob 3 weeks ago
@GriiiiiiinD "after reading and researching alot about him I'm happy in life"
Saying that you are happier now as a believer is no more to the point then me saying I'm happier drunk then sober.
ScientificBob 3 weeks ago
Man has no free will to choose or not choose God,God chooses who He will save before the foundation of the world.All men are on their way to Hell from birth.God chooses to save some for His glory alone,if He didn't all would go to Hell since no person would ever choose Jesus by his own free will,in fact,no person has the ability to choose Jesus,that's why He has to do the choosing.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
What happened to liability? If parents tells their children, "you have the choice that you can go outside, play and possibly brake out neighbors window, or stay inside and do pointless tasks", what do you think the children will choose? When they brake that window, isn't it up to the parents to pay for it because they could foresee it happening?
MockingVenus 1 month ago
i no this sounds stupid but the guy with the tie words makes scenes to me :/
LaBrick1 1 month ago
@LaBrick1 *Points a gun at you* I am all loving and never want to force anyone... but if you don't give me all the money you have now, I will shoot. See, you have freedom of choice whether to give me your money.
alan133 1 month ago
@LaBrick1 the issue is that the tie guy doesn't have to put you in jail for not paying, he just does so everyone will obey the tax laws, so basically the choice is there, but if you don't make the choice he wants, he gets pissed off and punishes you, even though he said it was your decision.
MockingVenus 1 month ago
Yeah you can do what you want but if you don't kiss my ass and do what I want you to do you're gonna pay! lol aah christians stupid version of "free will".
LOCUSTHATER666 1 month ago
204 Christians deny that paying taxes is compulsory.
busterbox 2 months ago
I personally don't believe in an afterlife of any kind. Even if there were a heaven its the last place I'd want to spend eternity. Endless boring sermons? I had enough of that in church when I was a kid. I stopped going when my parents stopped forcing me at 14 and I will only set foot in a church for a funeral or a wedding. And I don't want a christian burial when I die, either.
8698gil 2 months ago
HOLY SHIT!!! this is the first time I watch this videos and is amazing how there is someone out there that makes videos to express similar thoughts to those that i had.
Every time someone talks to me about DOG i mean GOD, I always ask about the free will thing. I give them many examples similar to this ones and they still dont get it. now when someone tries to talk about god, I will have this videos rdy on my phone, that why I save saliva.
GREAT VIDEOS CONGRATS!!!!!!
DarkLord1r 2 months ago
Newborn babies do not collect stamps.
Strangerinasland 2 months ago
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Don't you have better things to do ? oh wait of course you don't your an atheist who doesn't want to praise Yahweh and YET you still are. Whole videos of him. Praise Jesus. REPENT
ajazinggirl 2 months ago
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1. Does god will me to believe in him?
2. What can oppose the will of an all knowing / all powerful anything?
Nothing.
So its impossible to do anything against gods will.
This is in contradiction with the whole idea of religions.
Yahweigh 2 months ago
WHY do people assume a god would be benevolent & rational?
Strangerinasland 2 months ago
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Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
=> for more information type in google "TheDeenShow"
akeello 2 months ago
Gods "free will" is an illusion. If I asked you if you want steak or chicken for dinner and said it's up to you to choose. That's not a choice! I have made the choice and all you get to do is decide between MY choices. Free will implies choosing between options YOU have given yourself.
ThePublicIsInsane 3 months ago
there is no freewill, if some say lick my azz or eat shxt .thats not a choice
greatbrutus 3 months ago
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gods are imaginary.
ndrthrdr1 3 months ago
hilarious!
bradleyrimbleus 3 months ago
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To everyone who is interested in truth, philosophy of religion, and theology. NonStampCollector and I are engaged in a debate at seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and drop down link "NonStampCollector." Feel free to read the arguments and contribute your views and opinions. Hopefully this marks a long line of steady debating. The current topic is whether or not a god who gives ultimatums is superior to one that does not and what is/or does that god look like. Read, comment and enjoy
seekethtruth 3 months ago
i wish my parents could see this and be cured of their catholicism...
you're a clever man NSC
mutageno 4 months ago
Is that guy answering the door naked?
PluralOfEverything 4 months ago
@crashpilot2 i am not new to the subjects and ii have heard christians say similkar things like "to translate the bible properly you have to be an educated scholar" it is a common christian statement.... tell me.. why would i think you was being sarcastic? as i said, sarcasm only works if you know the person it is aimed at. dont underestimate the stupid that can come from a christians mouth.
spacecoke 4 months ago
@crashpilot2 anyone who knows you might have known you was being sacrastic but i do not kinow you so to me you just sounded like yet another stupid bible nut, there is no way to know of anyone is being sarcastic in TEXT when you know nothing about the person, if anyone i know about would have said that i would have known he was being sarcastic IF i knew that it contradicted his belifes but i do not know you so do yourself a favor and quit trying sarcasm in TEXT with strangers.
spacecoke 4 months ago
So are you angry that God set a standard for living or are you angry that people think there is a God? If you're trying say there is no God then why argue the theological issue of free will? On the other hand if you admit there is a God and are just upset that he put rules and consequences in place, then it seems you don't understand the concept of "God". To put it another way, you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Funny video though... hope you sort out your confusion before it's too late.
jeffmobile1 4 months ago
@jeffmobile1 You've outlined two possible motivations there, but you haven't hit on the right one yet. In other words, you've presented a false dichotomy.
I know what my motivation for this and my other videos is, but you haven't figured it out yet, and I'm not going to tell you what it is, you have to work it out for yourself. Think beyond your false dichotomy.
NonStampCollector 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector I think your video is fairly accurate. It seems to me you want to show that there is not really a free will choice but an ultimatum. So suppose your right, would this not make fairly simple that we should embrace God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. I know what your aiming at, but it really does make it seem like not choosing God is a stupid decision given your satire. I really enjoyed your video.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth Why on earth would a loving god give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment for non-compliance? This isn't a god worthy of the name. Yahweh is a ridiculous character, obviously made up by humans.
If in doubt, turn the idea around. Why would a god NOT give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more far better answers to THAT question. To cut a very long story short, if there is a god, it's not Yahweh of the bible. That god's an absurd mess.
NonStampCollector 4 months ago 10
@NonStampCollector Lot's of questions to think about. Let's assume that what is recorded in the Bible is accurate. In the Old Testament, we learn things about God's character. That He is just, loving, kind, etc. Since He is just, He must punish sin. Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and as a result transformed and the world along with them. God had a plan however, to save mankind from this depravity. He came down Himself into the world to die for it so that all my be saved who believe. . .
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth You said:
"Let's assume that what is recorded in the Bible is accurate. In the Old Testament,...."
STOP!!!!! NO!!!!! Let's NOT DO THAT!!!! WE'VE ALL DONE THAT A MILLION FUCKING TIMES!!!!
Why do theists always assume that atheists haven't thought of doing that, and that they need to TEACH us what's in the bible?
No. Write five comments starting with: "Let's assume that there is a god, but that it isn't anything like Yahweh. In fact, it is immeasurably better in every way." Go.
NonStampCollector 4 months ago 27
@NonStampCollector So how do you know it's not anything like Yahweh? I am simply saying I have not come across anything that is better than the Christian faith. This does not guaranty it's truth or anything like that. If it is the truth than it is the truth. If not, then what is, or what is the way things really are. It's better to live your life believing in God and find out your wrong, then it is to live your life not believing in God and finding out your wrong. Pascals Wager.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
lol this is hilarious and brilliant
karmaka 4 months ago in playlist NonStamp
@NonStampCollector Hey, I was not trying to start a fight or anything. I was just trying to give a little ground work since we were using theistic terms, and in case other people were reading our posts and did not have clue about what we were talking about. I was hoping that we could reason about these things. Usually you can learn more from people who disagree with you than you can from those who agree with you.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector I'm a big fan of your videos, you know how to get your point accross and you make it funny and entertaining at the same time.Nonetheless, it seems most christians still don't get it, and they think there's some way of interpreting the bible to be a foundation for morality.I'm sorry but there's no way to justify mass murder and rape,and no context which makes owning another human being as property the right thing to do.It's funny how they assume we don't know what's inthe bible
bobthecat420 4 months ago
@seekethtruth Two things. Assuming what is recorded in the bible to be accurate is a very strange thing to do, because we KNOW lots of stuff in there is false. We know the world is not flat for example, we know there was never a flood. Every book of the OT is full of stuff we know is false, so why assume it to be accurate?
And secondly, lets say God really did speak to Moses, and he faithfully relate all that was said. This is still no reason to assume this 'God' fellow was speaking the truth.
Superslemmet 4 months ago
@Superslemmet Actually history shows that there was a flood. Sea shells and fossils have been discovered on top of the Andes in South America and on most of the high mountains in the world. I know we are limited in space to write so respond on my website under the section I have title rebuttals to Qualiasoup which has an area where you can respond. I would be interested to here more about how "OT is full of stuff we know is false." If you can give a some claims I can then evaluate them.
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth Ok, first, the entirety of Genesis can be more or less proven to be false. That should raise our scepticism at the very least. In what way does fossils on the top of mountains prove the flood? All it does it confirm our observations that the tectonic plates are moving. We can measure that, and feel it (earthquakes), and the bible version (static earth) goes against everything we can observe.
I'm a physicist so I don't think we have much to discuss. I'm interested in the real world.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@Superslemmet How can Genesis be proven to be false? What parts? Tetonic plates moving is an observation, but it is still a logical possibility that there was flood that is collaborated not only by the Christian faith but many other cultures in the world that have similar flood stories in their historical tradition. Since your a physicist, I would be interested to hear how you think the world began. Pleas commit under my link "Truth Series" at seekethtruth.weebly.com. This will allow us to argue
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth A simple example of what is wrong with genesis. God created the seas before the stars, but it has been shown that a H2O molecule consists of just that, H2O, and O is created in the nuclear fusion inside stars, so stars need to be around long enough to explode and spread their stuff across the void for water to even be able to form. So genesis is wrong.
In science, first you look at the evidence, then make up a theory. What you are doing is the exact opposite.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@Superslemmet The most important point that is that A.) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Whether God created seas before stars or stars before seas is irrelavant. What is important for truth is whether or not that God actually did create the heavens and the earth. Whatever details Genesis got wrong are irrelevant. My faith is based on the Bible but it is not based on the inerrancy or infallibility of the Bible. There is a find and big distinction between the two!
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth But if the bible really was the inspired word of God, should not at least some of the parts we can test be true? Is the filter to use when reading the bible that all 'details' we can check are irrelevant, and all claims which we can't verify are true?
An example, if Jesus was God, why would he tell people they can cure leprosy by killing two birds and smearing themselves in their blood?
I think things like that should make anyone sceptical of the bible.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@Superslemmet It's interesting to note that science confirms the Big Bang, and this has scientist upset because they have to confess that something had to start everything. This has refuted their previous belief that the universe has existed for eternity which allowed them to hold onto their dogmatic belief that God does not exist. It's funny to see them try to find any other explanation but God. According to science, the simplest answers is usually the best one you go with. Why not go with God?
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth How can you argue that the simplest explanation is the one with God? That idea is so convoluted and complex, and by definition unexplainable, I hardly think it should qualify as a 'simple' theroy.
Supersymmetry is a much easier theroy to grasp (it's just 'right hand side = left hand side' really), it makes predictions, and it has much explanatory value.
As it is now, the laws of physics and chemistry takes us back to the very beginning of the universe without the need for God.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@Superslemmet I believe the theory's that Richard Dawkins and Danniel Dennet are trying to dig up are way more complex they just simply stating, "well maybe God," in order to not have anything to say about God at all. The laws of physics and chemistry need God. Who else is holding all of these laws in place? That's a serious question that scientist are pondering about; why are the laws in this universe acting in this way when they don't have to be?
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth These 'laws' are just correlations in nature. They are like mathematical/logical correlations. 1+1=2 is a law in the same way as the laws of nature. They are not laws in the human sense, they are just descriptions of how things interact.
But sure, we don't know Why nature interacts the way it does. Maybe the universe could have different laws? Just because we don't know this yet is no reason to throw in the towel and say "God did it", because that is exactly what appeals to god is.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@seekethtruth Dawkins and Dennet work/ed in totally different fields (biology and philosophy), I guess the only theory they have in common is that we can understand ourselves and our world at a fundamental level.
By claiming there is a god, you are claiming a deep understanding of this reality and our place in it will forever be beyond us, because the idea of god is beyond rationality and observation.
That can be true, but I hardly think it is something to strive for.
Superslemmet 3 months ago
@Superslemmet I believe there is a God but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, then we will have defeaters for all of our beliefs. God has designed us with cognitive faculties for discerning truth and knowledge in an appropriate environment which will lead us to truth beliefs. If God does not exist, then we do not have a designer for our cognitive faculties and we cannot know truth. Any belief we adopt will have a defeater because we are never sure if our cognitive faculties will lead us to truth.
seekethtruth 2 months ago
@seekethtruth Part 1. First, I find it interesting that you, without any evidence, can make claim about what intentions God may or may not have had as a designer of us and our environment. You simply don't know that he intended for us to be able to discern truth in the world. You only reach that conclusion based on what you think a rational designer would do, that is, if you yourself was the designer. But isn't it said that man cannot know the mind of God?
Superslemmet 2 months ago
@Superslemmet Actually this is what we Christians believe and I think it corresponds to the way reality real is. However, the atheist is at a lost because he or she will have defeaters for all of their beliefs. Because they don't believe they were "designed" by a designer with cognitive faculties that are functioning properly in a world that leads them to true beliefs. So if naturalism is true, than any belief you hold will have defeaters and you cannot know anything.
seekethtruth 2 months ago
@seekethtruth I must admit I don't understand what you mean by "defeaters", at least in the way you are using the term. I have faith in humanities ability to separate truth from fiction, by the simple explanation that there is a huge survival benefit for being good at it.
You have faith in that your idea of god designed you with cognitive abilities made for discerning truth from falsehood. I think your "defeater" is as insurmountable, because you can never know that he actually did that.
Superslemmet 2 months ago
I have plenty of evidence about why I believe the way I do. I just don't think it is necessary for this discussion. Again everything comes down to faith, no matter what the belief system. One of these belief systems correspond to the way reality is. Discovering the evidence for each belief systems is something that we poor mortals must engage in if we want to get as close to the truth as we possibly can. Even then it takes faith. Even Jesus said that if we seek then we will find. Keep seeking.
seekethtruth 2 months ago
@seekethtruth I just don't understand why you would conclude "Christianity" out of all the thousands of religions, is the correct one? The bible is full of contradictions and things that are simply wrong, it make claims which are testable, and which have failed the scrutiny of impartial tests, and if you study the religions that were in place before Christianity, you will see that it appears more as mishmash of the myths and ideas that were floating around the region long before the year 0.
Superslemmet 2 months ago
@seekethtruth Part 2. Secondly, if being able to discern truth has had a significant effect on the survival rate of individuals, those who are good at it should have had more children, and those who are bad at it should have died, by trying to eat rocks in the belief that they were food and so on.
It requires almost no pondering to see how useful the ability to discern truth from falsehood is, from an evolutionary perspective.
Superslemmet 2 months ago
@seekethtruth Plus I find animal and human sacrifice sick and I bet you actually do to, so if you do find sacrificing horrid and sick why would you want to worship a being that would relish in both....I am also more moral the your Fake Pretend biblical god because I would never ask anyone to ruing perfectly good meat just because I found the smell pleasing, And I would never ever ever ever feel the need to have anyone beaten tortured and killed. I am glad I know there is no god...
robtay1963 2 months ago
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seekethtruth 3 months ago
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@Superslemmet Maybe we can debate about this on my blog seekethtruth.weebly.com. That way we can actually state an argument. Maybe we can debate about science and God. How does that sound? Just make a comment on the link Truth Series and let's kick this thing off.
seekethtruth 3 months ago
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@Superslemmet That website is seekethtruth.weebly.com
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth You've asked me to contribute to your blog, but you still haven't responded to the challenge I left you with 4 weeks ago, namely: "Write... starting with "Let's assume that there is a god, but that it isn't anything like Yahweh. In fact, it is immeasurably better in every way."
You don't need me to spend my time on your blog, you just need some imagination. If you can't or won't do that, then why should I spend even a minute of my time on your website?
NonStampCollector 3 months ago
@NonStampCollector I am sorry, can you state what the challenge was again?
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@NonStampCollector Hey, I believe I restated the main points of your argument and answered them on my web site, seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and the link NonStampCollector.
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth Here's one reasons why a god would not need to issue ultimatums and threaten its creations into following it:
Because it might be so big that it wouldn't need anything from anyone.
To want or need would be to lack, and such a god would be by definition all encompassing, and thus not lack anything, and therefore be free of want or need.
A god that has needs would be less fully god than a god that didn't have needs, because it lacked nothing.
There. Let's just assume that's true.
NonStampCollector 3 months ago
@NonStampCollecto Actually the message of hell is given to those that thought they were going to heaven and werent, namely the Jews. If you dont want heaven and dont want God then threatneing with hell will be moot. Many christians are only christians bc they dont want hell. WAKE UP CALL! Unless you want God your not going to heaven.
The good news is that those that admit that theyre hatred of God is evil and want to love God but admit they cant bc of evil, Jesus will live in and change.
j919or 3 months ago
@NonStampCollector As I understand it, it’s not god inflicting hell as a punishment on you, hell along with al suffering is an unavoidable consequence of man’s freewill
To stretch your analogy the man from the tax office is not going to send you to jail that’s just a consequence he has no control over, but is giving you the option to avoid
255ad 2 weeks ago
@255ad And who set up the rules that way?
Who is responsible for the fact that hell is the 'unavoidable result' of free will, and not simply painless annihilation, or even explosion, or metamorphosis into a lower life form, or calcification?
So Yahweh gets all the credit for fine tuning the constants of the universe, and the parameters within which everything happens, and heaven, ... but has absolutely nothing to do with hell. Well how fucking convenient.
NonStampCollector 1 week ago 9
@NonStampCollector
"Who is responsible for the fact that hell is the 'unavoidable result' of free will" it just is nobody set it up like nobody set up that thirty-seven added to forty-four will give you eighty-one
255ad 1 week ago
@255ad If god created the universe and thus the laws of physics in it, then yes, god create free will, heaven and hell and is responsible for it.
zzyzx0788 1 week ago
@zzyzx0788 Did you say that with complete sincerity? And if you did, you don't know a modicum about physics, let alone science, or else you wouldn't even THINK about saying something so incredibly unintelligent.
TheOkami1113 1 week ago
@255ad Nobody set up that 37 added to 44 gives the sum of 81.
Just tell me why satan would have rebelled against your god, why your god wouldn't stop satan from interfering with humans, and why none of this has been explained by your scripture.
57worldwide 6 days ago
@57worldwide satan would do that because he had freewill, god wouldn't stop him because that would require interfering with freewill..... I think
I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN I DON'T BELIEVE IN AN ALL KNOWING GOD
255ad 6 days ago
@255ad What I'm asking is, why would anything which knows the Christian god knows everything, and is all powerful, try to rebel? Surely this satan character must be incredibly stupid, since it knows that the Christian god already knows what will happen in the future and has the power to stop anything.
Then, tell me how and why that same god would let satan interfere with his creation, before humans were aware of right wrong (this is, of course, assuming the Bible is true).
It doesn't make sense.
57worldwide 5 days ago
@57worldwide "since it knows that the Christian god already knows what will happen in the future and has the power to stop anything" to the the first part no he wouldn't know because of freewill, to the second part I don't know why god can't stop satin and I've never been given a satisfactory answer and that's why I'm not (besides the fact I'm not going to believe something because it can't be disproved) "A CHRISTIAN"
255ad 5 days ago
@255ad This god does know the future. It knows everything, what has been, what is, and what shall be. Ever heard the phrase, "Everything that happens is part of god's plan"?
There is no reason why evil needs to exist in order for us to have free will. The free will defense is extremely weak, and easily demonstrated to be so. Sometimes you get tld this, "If you had evidence of god, you wouldn't have free will."
Somehow, one of Jesus' apostles needed evidence and was given it. That argument fails.
57worldwide 5 days ago
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@57worldwide
even god can't know the future in a non deterministic universe
"There is no reason why evil needs to exist in order for us to have free will" if people have freewill they might choose to do....or at least try to do evil things, isn't that obvious?
255ad 5 days ago
@57worldwide
if god can see the future and knows what will happen even before you do, there is no free will in that because you will act out, like a puppet, everything his 'divine plan' says.
divine plan =/= free will
infernalone666 1 day ago
@NonStampCollector you are an intelligent person. i love your vids, btw! more more more!!!!! ;)
zebraman60 1 day ago
@NonStampCollector Exactly! It's infuriating. I'm surrounded by Xianity and I can tell you that the very thing you expressed is believed in my part of the US but SANS IRONY AND SATIRE. It's madness. Logical horse blinders.
Anyway keep up the good work b/c your stuff is EXACTLY what many of us ex-theists/ex-Xians ("eXians"?) are thinking.
PaladinHero 9 hours ago
@NonStampCollector Post 2. Throughout the Old Testament we see a relationship of ultimatums with His chosen people the Jews. After a generation or two of following God, they would forget God. God would send a prophet to give them an ultimatum; repent and turn from sin, if you don't I will punish you. No one is exempt from disobeying God's moral law, not even the Jews, and we see this relationship. Jews had to sacrifice animals to atone for their sins and follow God's laws. The Jews failed.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector Post 3. God had a plan to save mankind though by dying Himself to bring man back into a right relationship with Him for those that believe. This stresses the emphasis that God loves all of mankind and does not desire that one should be lost. But God is not going to force us to follow Him. It's our free choice to do so. So that is a brief summary of the Christian story. Can you think of a better story or a better God that you can tell us about? see next post.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector Post 4. This God seems worthy of following. Though He is only worth following if the Christian faith accurate portrays God as He exist in reality. But if He does not then, disregard. So what alternatives do you posit to the Christian faith? What can you sell me to accept your beliefs over mine? The Christian faith handles many difficult issues better than any religion I have ever researched. If your going to have faith in something, why not it? see next.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector Post 5. If any being could give ultimatums, should it be absurd to think that God would be one of them? Especially if the ultimatums were in line with His character? What's so hard about this? A God who would not give ultimatums would be a weak god and not worthy enough to talk about. However, we have the contrary with the Christian faith. There are two base things we can chose in life. Follow God, or not. and their are an infinite number of choices we can make in those two. .
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@NonStampCollector You made an interesting statement I would like to hear about, "Why would a god not Give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more better answers to THAT question." Can you elaborate what those better answers are? You can respond to my website at seekethtruth.weebly.com
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@NonStampCollector You can respond to a section on my website I have dedicated to you "NonStampCollector" where you can respond to some of my questions. This will gives us more room to lay out our arguments and will allow others to contribute as well. Again you maid a statement, "Why would a god NOT give ultimatums and threats of infinite punishment etc? There are far more better answers to THAT question." I think everyone would like to hear you elaborate more on your statement. What arguments?
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@seekethtruth I have one, If we had no fear of lake of fire then God would know our Devotion to him was Real and Not out of Fear of torture. I really don't get the debate anyway, I mean if a tyrant took over the country and said serve him or be locked in metal prison cell over fire pit for the rest of your life then millions would comply just to avoid torture but no one would consider him worthy of your love, so why do you consider this god worthy he is no better making the same threat.
robtay1963 2 months ago
@robtay1963 You bring up an interesting point. Suppose there were no negative eternal consequences like burning in flames for eternity. What makes you think people will follow after God? I think consequence is a key component in devotion to anything. Whether you follow the laws of your state, king, or God. If there are no consequences, then everyone would truly gratify themselves in life and not God. People live like this already. But in the real world there are consequences for our actions!
seekethtruth 2 months ago
@seekethtruth Laws to protect people and there property are set up for those who are self serving and don't want to get along in a civilized society, but that has nothing to do with worship. I don't worship cops or the president, but I respect them and the laws. I also strongly believe that most rational people don't obey the laws because of consequences but because we have compassion for others and don't want to kill harm or steal....I have morals but I won't bow down to pretend man in sky.
robtay1963 2 months ago
@seekethtruth But to the point of the Bible, I don't believe it is true at all I don't believe in any thing supernatural. But according to christian faith, If a man were to be exposed to christianity but refuse to believe it, yet for all of his life the worst thing he does is lose his temper a few times and tells a couple of white lies, but he raises decent kids never cheats on his wife and gives to worthy causes, he is going to burn forever in hell for not believing, but but cont.....
robtay1963 2 months ago
@seekethtruth continued,,,,But a mass murder who kill and rapes 30 teenage girls and goes to prison for life and kills a few inmates who make him mad, and then in the last 6 months of his life finds Jesus and turns his life around while still in prison and then he dies he goes to a wonderful happy place...sorry but if that is your gods version of being moral then I am more moral the god because i would just kill the bad guy and let the Hard working nice people in regardless of what they believe.
robtay1963 2 months ago
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@NonStampCollector I have analyzed your argument and responded to it at seekethtruth.weebly.com under "Truth Series" and the drop down link, "NonStampCollector." The first post was the original laying out of the argument. The second post "The NonStampCollector Responds" has your argument followed by my analysis. Hopefully this will mark a long steady line of healthy debating.
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@NonStampCollector I will be responding on my webpage that way I do not have a character limitation, and likewise if you want to rebuttal you wont have a character limitation as well. seekethtruth.weebly.com under the link "Truth Series" and the drop down link "NonStampCollector."
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@jeffmobile1
It's interesting that almost all comments I read from religious folks end up with something like this "hope you sort out your confusion before it's too late." Kind of getting annoying too though at the same time. It's the same sort of deal as is described in this "free will" video... "you either choose to accept Jesus (out of your own "free will" of course) or you burn in hell... and we are not interfering with your "free will" by imposing a penalty on the "wrong" choice"!
Spetsop 4 months ago
@Spetsop I suppose that should make the decision of accepting Jesus an easy one!
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth
Ya, but you're "accepting" him only out of fear of punishment... doesn't mean that you ACTUALLY believe in him, which is the requirement, is it not? Believing in something is not a choice that you can consciously make! And you can't accept something if you don't believe that it exists (hence why I put accepting in quotations in my first sentence). If you don't actually belief in him, then you are not accepting, you are just pretending!
Spetsop 4 months ago
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@seekethtruth
Ya, but you're "accepting" him only out of fear of punishment... doesn't mean that you ACTUALLY believe in him, which is the requirement, is it not? Believing in something is not a choice that you can consciously make! And you can't accept something if you don't believe that it exists (hence why I put accepting in quotations in my first sentence). If you don't actually belief in him, then you are not accepting, you are just pretending!
Spetsop 4 months ago
@jeffmobile1: "So are you angry that God set a standard for living or are you angry that people think there is a God?"
No, we're angry that so many idiots still believe in this sick, demented fairy tale. I've seen comic books that are more believable than the bible.
mikefromwa 4 months ago
@jeffmobile1 I'm angry that, someone makes up rules that they either will not, can not, or don't choose to enforce. Oh, But after you die you'll get what's coming... Just nonsense and a Total waste of rules.
wondergundy 3 months ago
@jeffmobile1 if you had to choice between god and your bible which would u choose?
greatbrutus 3 months ago
Hell fire is Gods light having the wicked see it as if it was fire. That will happen around the city of God revelation 20-9. KJV, an ever burning pit of fire will not be perpetually burning around the city of God. The redeemed will not be singing, tip toeing through the hot coals back,and forth, from the city of God. The established Organized churches have been lying to you about all things.
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kobidobidog 5 months ago
God only gives good things. Hell is not Being punched every day. Hell is the death of the soul.
Ezekiel 18:20 ,K JVThe soul that sinneth, it shall die. John 11:26 ,And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? He is talking about the soul. John 3:16:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. no one in hell to punch anyone. Hell is ultimate dead end for the soul.
kobidobidog 5 months ago
@kobidobidog You missed the verses about the lake of fire.
inputverifier 5 months ago
3:07, When we do good God is in us to do good. When we do Good it is God in us doing the good. When that happens whoever has passed from death unto eternal life. This video is of the devil slandering God who is Jesus. The one saying we have a choice is saying pay tax or die. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves with any amount of Money. Jesus in us does it all. Just don't reject him. Reject Jesus,and do bad calling it good. That is fatal to the soul.
kobidobidog 5 months ago
The consequences of sin is death of the body. Do not forgive, and God will not be in you to forgive. Have Jesus in you , and whoever will forgive resulting in no consequence of not being able to paying an unpayable debt. Jesus pays the debt. We do no good on our own. it is Jesus in us loving, and forgiving being all the positive soul saving character traits of Jesus in this body that dies. Don't show that forgiving love to others, and the debt of death to the soul will not be forgiven.
kobidobidog 5 months ago
You do have a choice. It's just smarter to choose to obey. Makes sense to me. You are well aware of the consequences when you make your choice.
pnutgallery514 5 months ago
@pnutgallery514 When a human does bad persecuting wishing death, and killing humans, lying, doing bad things condemning humans wanting to give fire, an whoever will get fire missing the best gift you could ever get. Have no jails or armies killing humans with all loving as one, and we would have arrived to be transported to heaven - the beam me up Scotty for Jesus will be Scotty. Die, and it will seem to you that you never died or fly off this earth when Jesus comes back with a loud noise.
kobidobidog 5 months ago
Hahaha... this doesn't even make sense to me. Only when you know God, really understand why things are the way they are according to Him :) I don't get the point of taking the time to do these kind of things, honestly, if He doesn't exist for you... why to bother?
dolceprincipessa1 5 months ago in playlist Free Will 'God' Style: parts 1, 2 & 3.
@dolceprincipessa1 Because people are brainwashed by this rubbish and they spend their entire lives believing it. I have a 15 year old sister who wants to think for herself, but she is too scared to admit the Christians God likely does not exist because she doesn't want to spend eternity in his personal torture chamber just in case he does. She lives her life in fear of a fairytale! This is were it becomes my problem. Your religion is bullshit, quit deluding yourself!
MannyXj1 5 months ago
@MannyXj1 How do you know it's BS? It might very well be true.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth Demonstrate that it is true and I will take your case. If your best comeback is "it might very well be true", then anything anyone has ever believed is true, might very well be true. With that mindset, you have no way of measuring or differentiating absolute truth. The best theories are the ones that are falsifiable. The entire concept of a God isn't. You'd think an all powerful magnificent creator of the universe would know that right? There must not be one, or one who cares...
MannyXj1 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 According to the law of non-contradiction theism, atheism, and religion x (or whatever you want to put here) cannot all be true. This is where faith comes in (though we can believe something in faith and be wrong). I believe that the Christian faith is the greatest religion in the world because when comparing it to every other religion out there, there is none that compare to it. God loves us and freely gave Himself to die for our sins. We don't have to do anything to receive that gift
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth Funny how you would even dare say theism is non-contradictory! Moreover how you go on saying that atheism takes faith. Faith in what? Then you say your belief takes faith but could be wrong. But since you think it's the best religion in the world (utterly opinionated) it must be true. Once again you've demonstrate that experience is completely subjective, and has no foothold on determining absolute truth. This playground debate is over, because I'm obviously dealing with a child...
MannyXj1 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 LOL! Well, I don't remember saying that theism is non-contradictory, though I believe it is not. I was simply saying that according to the law of non-contradiction, It cannot be the case that, Atheism, Christianity, and Islam are all true. Only one of these (or something else) can be true in reality and not all of them. I think it takes a lot of faith to see all of creation and to embrace atheism. A lot more faith then it takes to embrace Christianity or Islam. see next post.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 Post 2. I was saying earlier from my research, that Christianity is the best religion in the world. Given that it best handles the issues of why our world is the way it is, that we need God, that God died for us and salvation is free to anyone who embraces Jesus, and how it addresses the issues of pain and suffering, the mountains of scrolls in support of the Bible, etc. From my research, Christianity handles these issues better than any other religion out there. See post 3.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth You are entitled to your opinion as anyone else! I'm not saying that isn't the case. But I was pointing out how childish it was of you to say that faith and opinion prove your god, or any god for that matter, exists.
MannyXj1 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 That's not what I was saying. I was saying that any belief system requires faith to believe in it. It does not guaranty the truth of that system. I was simply saying I have not come across anything that was more convincing to me than the Christian faith. This does not mean it is necessarily true, it could be false. But there is an objective reality, or the way things really are. I just think it's probably closer to the Christian faith than anything else that is out there.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth Okay thank you for clearing that up. I completely respect your view now because it's what you believe. I just can't stand the people that assert their view as absolute truth. At least you are humble and accept the fact you could be wrong, just as I do. I misunderstood what you were initially trying to say.
MannyXj1 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 No problem, I am glad we were better able to understand each others positions.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@MannyXj1 Post 3. Read my posts carefully, instead of reading it haphazardly and then attacking my character by calling me a child. There is an ultimate reality, a way things really are in life. There are a number of religions out there that try to explain this reality. They all cannot be true. Only one of them is true. People take a leap of faith in these religions (including Atheism) when they think they found the one that is closest to reality. It all takes faith to believe in one of these.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
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@MannyXj1 Post 3. Read my posts carefully, instead of reading it haphazardly and then attacking my character by calling me a child. There is an ultimate reality, a way things really are in life. There are a number of religions out there that try to explain this reality. They all cannot be true. Only one of them is true. People take a leap of faith in these religions (including Atheism) when they think they found the one that is closest to reality. It all takes faith to believe in one of these.
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@seekethtruth reply 2. Can you tell me some other religion that out does Christianity as far as a theme of redemption and grace? Hey I am open to ideas. I just think the Christian faith is the best thing the world has though it could be false. And if it is false, then who cares! The Christian faith would be the only religion worth living for. I suppose if Islam is true, why not strap a bomb on my chest and go kill Americans and get 70 plus virgins. What worthy alternatives are left in the world?
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@dolceprincipessa1 comedy
Inoryuki 5 months ago
@YodaLN My god? I see, so because I disagree with a ridiculous statement you insist on defending then I must be one of those religious people you hate. Quite a line of reasoning you have there. Just goes to show that there are plenty of sheeplike atheists as well, ruining it for the rest of us. For your info, my field is computer science, I just happen to find philosophy and religion interesting. Imagine that.
jacksawild 5 months ago
@YodaLN The brain changes according to stimuli, both internal and external. This is how cognitive behaviour modification/therapy works. If you'd have read more than the first sentence form the wikipedia article you might have realised this. You can change your beliefs, according to your own will. I get the feeling I'm wasting my time here.
jacksawild 5 months ago
@YodaLN It's called neuroplasticity. Look it up.
jacksawild 6 months ago
Give me your box of chocolate chip cookies or I'll gang rape your daughter with my friends and murder her in front of you!.... But it's your choice, friend. ^___^
javonne 6 months ago in playlist NonStampCollector entire catalogue - in reverse order
It wouldn't bother me to be in heaven knowing there are people in hell, but niether of those places exist anyway so maybe I'm just not taking the question seriously enough.
48amg 6 months ago
i honestly think this is probably the STUPIDEST analogy EVER. We as humans DO have free will just like ALLL of you atheists have taken the choice to not believe in God or Christ and sit here watching stupid animated videos dripping with blasphemy... Yeah there is Hell if you don't accept Christ into your life or believe in his word, but none of you do. you made the choice not to believe in that or Hell, so to you there is no consequence?
smilemarmar 6 months ago
@smilemarmar God creates choices that lead to hell, yet is omniscient so he knows hat choices people will make, and exactly who is go to hell. How can you call a being who creates hell for torturing human beings for eternity, all-loving? Could you enjoy heaven knowing that billionsl including people you've known and maybe loved, are being tortured mercilessly for eternity? Because it would bother me.
strangestdude 6 months ago 13
@strangestdude Actually, God did not create choices for hell. He created the possibility of evil when He created humans with free will. It's humans who actuate those possibilities. The Bible says' the eternal fire was prepared for the devil and his minions. Not for people. But hey, in the end, you end up going where you want to go. Accept the Grace that God has given to you today before it is too late. Salvation was freely offered up. Is there a better alternative?
seekethtruth 4 months ago
@strangestdude Yeah how come that occurred to me at 8 years old but others grow old and die without understanding it?
rudygetsplenty 4 months ago
@strangestdude Why is it so hard to comprehend that a "just" God will allow people to go to where they chose to go? I can't say for certain if I will enjoy eternity in heaven while billions suffer (heck I may not be in heaven). What's so hard to comprehend about this? That a "just" and "good" God will allow people to go where they want to go? Which is reflected in their choices in life.
seekethtruth 3 months ago
@smilemarmar "We as humans DO have free will..."
Are you asserting that human brains violate the laws of physics? If not, then what you call free will is a direct product of natural law. That is, in your worldview, a direct product of something your God created. Why on earth would the God view us as free in that setting? He would have created nonbelievers specifically for the purpose of fueling the fires of hell.
Gnomefro 6 months ago
@smilemarmar: This is what you people seem incapable of understanding: it's not that people have "made a choice" not to believe in your religion, they just genuinely don't believe on the strength of what they've heard. Choice doesn't really come into it. I don't, for instance choose not to believe in Santa and neither would a sane, rational person choose not to believe that Stockholm is the capital of Sweden. You only believe because of childhood indoctrination and you're sacred of hell.
inphanta 6 months ago
Ah, "free will"... the biggest nonexistent Biblical tenant ever. Used in every argument by Christians, but not a single time in their actual holy book. Still trying to figure out exactly where this one even came from.
joshthesarge 6 months ago
- and there are guys in there who'll punch the shit out of you every day. - Hmm.. :D
gruu 6 months ago 4
@crashpilot2 god wrote the bible so people would have to go to college for 4 years before they would be able to read it??????? do you realise the scale of stupidity in that? isnt it funny how the most educated people on the planet who have spent a lot more than 3 years in education do NOT believe the bible, yet most americans who have no education at all DO believe it? that throws your "lets pretend the bible is clever" argument right out of the window.
spacecoke 6 months ago
Could one if the people that hate these ahteist comedy videos so much explain why you keep searching for them, clicking on them, and watching them. (Not Rhetorical).
WilliamAllikzander 6 months ago
Could
WilliamAllikzander 6 months ago
i just want to hear your story
angelsarie 6 months ago