Billy Liar, the deception of William Lane Craig.

[Freddymack1000]

Why is there a santa in the beginning of the video? LOL! hahahahahahahaaaaa!!!!

[psycotria]

Pompous Ass.

[StopSpamming1]

Both.

[SOV3R3IGNXx]

Keep fighting the good fight, TomTom. You theists would do well to remember that, if their were a god, he gave you the ability/gifts, of reason and logic for a specific purpose... SURVIVAL!

It's got us this far, don't give up on it now!

[SOV3R3IGNXx]

Not surprising...at all. This is the precisely the type of BS that is to be expected of a creationist, High profile or not so high profile.

The problems with irrational beliefs (creationism, and Theism included!) are that they are, by definition, irrational belief 'systems' of thinking.

This is why it's considered academically/scientifically embarrassing to harbor any of these 'false methods' of education/higher learning... WLC? Too many kinks in the armor, they all FAIL sooner or later!

[KieIicious]

This is it?

[SoftBryan]

He is a liar, I always knew it.

[1919dpg]

he hasn't lied.. he says, HE hasn't uploaded any videos..

[TheTomtompiper]

@1919dpg Yeah, just ignore everything else he said and concentrate on the on possibly true thing he said. Now put your fingers in your ears hum loudly and jump up and down on the spot /facepalm.

[1919dpg]

@TheTomtompiper i'm not a craig supporter.. i'm actually an atheist so i have no reason to want to defend anything he says.. i just don't see the lie here. somebodys been uploading videos of his and he's linked them on his web..

[TheTomtompiper]

@1919dpg He said they were Pirated, so why would a copyright holder link to a pirated copy of his own videos? He claimed people Pirated his material and yet he links to it, don't you think this is odd? He claims he has nothing to do with it yet the link is directly below his picture on his site, the second link down none the less, how could he possibly be unaware of exactly who is doing this, how they are doing it and when they are doing it, he must get the URL's from somewhere?

[1919dpg]

@TheTomtompiper that could be the case but he could also not mind the infringement due to his message spreading to a wide audience. sorry man, but in my opinion you haven't caught him lying.

[TheTomtompiper]

@1919dpg After watching the video by William Lane Craig and listening to what he says would you then expect to go to his site and see it hosting the videos?

If your answer is anything other than an empathic yes, then he set out to deceive.

[manchine123]

@TheTomtompiper what if if videos are pirated and the people who run his website link to them. i doubt Dr. Craig runs his own website.

[TheTomtompiper]

@manchine123 Are you serious? Of course he does not run it, but does he control it, and look at it to check its content? If he doesn't then he is a fool, if he does he is a liar, you decide. And that figure he quotes is the figure for the drcraigvideos site, so he is aware of it and has viewed it on You Tube, so why didn't he just tell people that? Why the double talk and decption?

[MarvelsofaLifetime]

@TheTomtompiper Religion is both in principle, and by necessity, an emotional belief or conviction as opposed to a rational one. Therefore, even after either disproving it or otherwise equally as considerably completely nullifying it on the basis of rational and evidentiary retort, it should be no surprise that they still adhere to their delusion. Carl Sagan and many others like him understood then, that the optimal way to cure someone of a religious delusion is chiefly through emotional means.

[Draconisrex1]

lol. They're all compulsive liars.

[DoctorSynthetic]

I think that drcraigvideos channel IS the REAL William Lane Craig. That is his troll channel lol.

[Nardypants]

Even if I really would have liked WLC to be lying about this, he is clearly in no wrong here except that he doesn't admit he knows DrCraigVideos, but then again, that was not the question in the first place...

[TheTomtompiper]

@Nardypants withholding information in an effort to deceive or influence is tantamount to lying, no strike that it is downright lying.

[m4c13k86]

You can't explain that... You can't explain

[lewisner]

If you hooked WLC up to a lie detector and printed the scans you could sell them as artwork.

[lsynno]

HMMM WLC is missing out on an opportunity to cash in (first time for everything)

*Lane craig's lessons in lying* id buy it

[lsynno]

@TheTomtompiper Ah cheers plausible deniability ill have to remember that

[TheJMan11000111]

Lair 

[mhender668]

I vote for liar. He's no fool, although his followers are.

[lsynno]

I actually find myself admiring his brilliant lying skills the way he indirectly asserts his supposed ignorance of YouTube the internet and technology despite regularly using them to his advantage is a masterful piece of "Alibi assertion"

[TheTomtompiper]

@lsynno I think the technical term for it is plausible deniability, a fancy name for a lie. He has shown he is a consummate evader of truth.

[RGMadSimon]

What's he lying about?

He said he's not the one putting them up. "John" does. And then posts them on Craig's forum. So?

[TheTomtompiper]

@RGMadSimon he said he did not know who was posting the videos, he said they were pirated, and yet he links to them from his website, that does not ring true to me.

[UrkTheKeg]

You haven't caught WLC in a lie here Thuderf00t; linking to material isn't the same thing as putting it up yourself. Whether or not WLC controls drcraigvideos the DMCA was false and either way there will be no negative consequences for whoever sent the false notice. Is there other correspondence where he claims ignorance of the channel?

[TheTomtompiper]

@UrkTheKeg I am not Thunderf00t, and I do not know of any other correspondence, but if you do I would be interested. But since when has the number of times a lie is repeated have any bearing on its validity? And I disagree with you he denied knowledge of the videos provenance so that he can wash his hands of blame when things turn nasty, as they have, a lie of omission, but still a lie.

[benjami66]

I am sorry, we have to give WLC the benefit of the doubt until (or if) he makes a statement. You are jumping to a conclusion that may be incorrect. He acknowledges DrCraigVideos exists in this video and by saying "pirate" implies it is taken without his permission. However if I was WLC I would want my videos on youtube. It is not his fault DrCraigVideos is a twat who has in fact banned me twice :P

[Roper122]

Craig is cunning enough to be able to claim that he isn't the one doing the youtube site... so it's tough to prove.

DrCraigvideos will bear the brunt of this, not Craig himself.

But still... nice video.

[OkamsRazer]

i particularly like how he mentioned the specific "pirater" and how "popular" it seems to be, although technically 4 million hits is only correlational since as I mentioned in another post, I am willing to bet the vast majority of them are just to see the full source material when first seen via F00t, aronra, TAE, and related commentary.

[Skindoggiedog]

I still reckon this is him.

John Leonard aka drcraigvideos:

examiner(dot)com/creationism-i­n-atlanta/john-leonard

southernprose(dot)com

fictionwise(dot)com/ebooks/a63­391/John-L-Leonard/?si=0

[DogmasDemise]

@TheTomtompiper As much as I disagree with WLC's views, can we clarify the following:

The date on which WLC made that statement that he doesn't know "drcraigvideos".

The date (aproximate) when the Reasoned Faith site started linking to "drcraigvideos".

I mean it's not entirely implausible that WLC didn't know about it at first, but then decided to work with this "John Leonard" (whatever the hell his name is) guy.

[TheTomtompiper]

@DogmasDemise without a timestamp on the original video we can not date it, but I remembered seeing the link to drcraigvideos on his blog when he was being challenged by Theoreticalbullshit so you can date that.

[azmanabdula]

if you go to doctor craigs videos, all secular thought is banned, but it claims 90 percent agree...

fucking bullshit!

[azmanabdula]

DrCraig Banned me years ago....

all i said was i would like to talk to him in PM...

then i said something on the channel (rational thought, not being a troll) and BAM! blocked : (

[azmanabdula]

so this is Miles other channel? (is it miles? sorry if not)

how come i have never heard of it?

[AgApE010]

@jappud

Again, that isn't Craig himself uploading videos though, is it?

[TheTomtompiper]

@AgApE010 He may not be operating the computer himself, but there is no way on earth he is unaware of how it is being don, by whom and most likely he has some sort of editoral control. These facts fly in the face of his Public pronuncement of ignorance. So is he lying in your opinion? Or merely being economical with the truth?

[AgApE010]

@TheTomtompiper

You can't be this thick. Craig said he doesn't upload videos himself,but that others do. drcraigvideos is obviously close with reasonablefaith and has his channel linked. Now is there any reason to think that Craig knew about all this in the clip in this video? No! He hires people who maintain his site for him. He doesn't go around policing the website himself.

Like I said, this nothing but a smear campaign. T-f00t and friends should run for office with this kind of talent...

[DogmasDemise]

@AgApE010 "Like I said, this nothing but a smear campaign. T-f00t and friends should run for office with this kind of talent..."

Thunderf00t handled the situation maturely. Check his video again. WLC is presumed innocent in this DMCA thing.

[azmanabdula]

@AgApE010 but did he know about it?

[AgApE010]

@azmanabdula

I'm not sure. I'm going to say probably not since I'm sure Craig has a lot more to keep him busy than knowing about a YouTuber who has a link to his channel on his website.

But I'm not the one making assertions on here. The uploader of this video claims Craig is lying so it's up to him to show that Craig is uploading videos. And by the way, even if Craig knows about this John Leonard fellow, how on earth does that mean he's lying? Craig said that HE PERSONALLY doesn't upload vids

[Wrath0fKhan]

@AgApE010

"Craig said that he personally doesnt upload vids"

You left out the "pirated part" again. It was right under his nose! LOL

[AgApE010]

@Wrath0fKhan

What about the pirated part? It's no secret that people do upload videos of him all over the place. Does this somehow suggest that Craig lied when he said he personally doesn't upload videos?

In other words, what exactly are you guys trying to accuse Craig himself of?

[Wrath0fKhan]

@AgApE010

"what about the pirated part"

What about it? Its right "under his nose." Thats what its about.

"suggest that"

Suggest what? Did you you even watch this vid properly? It offers several options (as potential answers).

"accuse"

Better watch the vid one more time again before you start seriously discrediting yourself.

[AgApE010]

@Wrath0fKhan

What's right under his nose? What are you ranting about? Explain yourself. And yes, I watched the video.

[Wrath0fKhan]

@AgApE010

"Whats right under his nose"

As it looks like; his "own forum" with an inviting and well visible link to "all" the vids in question.

"I watched the vid"

Then watch it again and stop inventing stuff that aint there (e.g. parsing relevant things out of context).

[azmanabdula]

@AgApE010 but he is lying about the validity of his argument...even from his point of view,

"an argument is independent of the mental state of the thinker"

"an argument is not independent of the mental state of the thinker" which one is it?

[AgApE010]

@azmanabdula

Who's lying about what argument? We're talking about Craig allegedly lying when he said he doesn't upload videos. Why can't you stick to the topic? Focus.

[DogmasDemise]

@AgApE010 Guys, let's put this another way. If you own a site, and that site has had close ties to a YouTube channel for a long time (links etc.) and you deny this and dismiss it as "pirating", nobody's going to believe that. A site owner shouldn't be so ignorant about his own site.

HOWEVER, it is also possible WLC didn't know about it at first (drcraigvideos' been around since 2007) but then later decided to start linking to the guy. I haven't ruled that out yet.

[Skindoggiedog]

@DogmasDemise If it really is John Leonard, then there's a good chance he actually is aware of the guy.

[azmanabdula]

@AgApE010 dude as wrath of khan said...."right under his nose"

anyways i was talking about the validity of the Kalam cosmological argument...

i think you need to watch the video again....

[TheTomtompiper]

@AgApE010 actually I asked a question, so what is your answer? I am off the personal opinion that he probably is given his interaction with theoreticalbullshit and his body language in this video. But I have left it up too the viewer too decide, so what is your decision liar or fool?

[Skindoggiedog]

@AgApE010 "even if Craig knows about this John Leonard fellow, how on earth does that mean he's lying?"

I don't think he's lying, just dodging the fact that he's more aware of JL than he's making out.

[TheTomtompiper]

@Skindoggiedog Dodging the fact, sounds like lying to me, you can lie by omission as well as commission, both are equally deceitful.

[xamot27]

typical creationist bs. im not surprised

[dingodavid]

@jappud As far as I am aware, the 'reasonablefaith' website also still has a link to 'drcraigvideos blog' in the links section as well.

Can we start calling him William 'two links' Craig yet?

[andresdohko]

he disgusts me, he really does, and his bucnh of fans too, how can someone be so dishonest and immature!

[Boudiga]

@jappud I would disagree that its a mild form of dishonesty. I think we shouldn't be gentle with them when they lie. I call them out on it and point it their face. Sorry but like a dog that pees in the house, you got stick their nose in it and say "bad!"

I know thats mean, but needed. I hate doing that to poor dogs. But they have to learn. Xians should know better. Most are house broken I hope.

[tandooriconnection]

People should keep making videos dissing Craig; let's see how many false DMCAs are filed before youtube goes "what the fuck?"

[hellhammerz666]

Would this be a Headshot?

[Boudiga]

@jappud That is true!

[Shyhalu]

Christ, just stop this drama crap and sue him already.

[AgApE010]

My goodness. Do you guys really think Dr. Craig actively runs the blog on his website? I'm sure that he has people running the site for him.

But I guess instead of educating themselves in philosophy and taking their movement to academia by publishing responses to Craig's arguments, internet atheists rather just run this YouTube smear campaign again him.

But I'm sorry, I'm spoiling your fun. I'll leave you guys to intellectually fondle each other.

[OkamsRazer]

@AgApE010 sorry for the fondling, we should stop....we wouldn't want to put your priests and ministers out of work.

[TheMors666]

@AgApE010 You may be missing the bigger picture.

Dr. Craig has final approval on what content is included on Reasonable Faith and if his best defense is that he doesn't monitor what people he has approved to speak on his behalf say, he isn't guilty of anything other than looking foolish.

If he did personally endorse drcraigvideos he should publically denounce said association or else he appears in support of the falsely filed DMCA.

So which is it?

[kiasta]

Shock and horror, a manipulating Christian. :O

[HorrorIllogium]

I don't think he's lying, but I sure as hell hope he is.

[HorrorIllogium]

@HorrorIllogium I'm going with fool.

[Boudiga]

Oh wow an xian liar! I never saw that before! LOL next thing you'll be telling me all life evolved over time and weren't the byproduct of bronze age fantasy! This is great, but really nothing new. Heres an idea, how about something rarely seen, an honest xian. I know they're endangered, but think we could find one?

[musicmode13100]

@Boudiga they are an endangered species. I am happy to say that I was able to meet one before they went extinct.

[Boudiga]

@musicmode13100 I have too. I've also seen Polar bears, online and I think once at a zoo.

[musicmode13100]

@Boudiga lol, my experience was like going to the south pole and taking a nap next to one. he was actually my professor for comparative chordate anatomy, but my jaw dropped every time he said he was christian (he was also an evolutionist-as if evolution is a way of thinking)

[Boudiga]

@musicmode13100 I've met a few of those. I even had the pleasure of meeting an xian who could admit she was wrong. She was debating against gay marriage and how marriage is a religious concept. So I pointed out that my religion allows same sex marriage and who is she to control what my religion does. She then changed her opinion. Shocked me, I didn't believe her at first. But she did change her status. Shes against it in her church, but other churches should be allowed to do what they wish.

[MillaJanick]

Oh snap!

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

I think Thunderfoot is too obsessed with YouTube. I mean he's putting on a bit of weight.

[stinnetbennet]

@OrthodoxDarwinist he's got a fat neck

[TheWitnessOfCacti]

BOTH

[logicbloke]

These people claim morality through religion but they have no scruples when it comes to deceiving others.

[TheWisemonkey8]

has the offending channe been close? 

[VOICEofTRNC]

What a donut

[LouisPlume]

pants on fire

[TheWitnessOfCacti]

@LouisPlume LOL

[AcceptSolitude]

I LOVE DRAMA

[cslamo]

I though he was a moron. Now I know he is a liar moron

[Blasthood]

Tsk tsk tsk. What is this. Another shenanigan from William Lane Craig? Another of his charades perhaps?

[oldclown]

The verdict is "Both."

Dismiss the jury.

[dingodavid]

This situation does not look good for William Lane Craig. (Liar, lunatic, or...?)

Dr. Craig comes across as someone who might hand you his wallet, and then claim that you stole it. If this John Leonard guy is a 'pirate', then I am Long John Silver.

I foresee William Lane Craig dropping John Leonard and his 'drcraigvideos' like a hot rock.

[benaberry]

brilliant, goes to show what proper investigation can lead to,even the truth.

[mlyjohn]

I smell trouble Ahead Some one is in alot of trouble !!!!!

[cowboyx1970]

Liar

[StopSpamming1]

DPRJones has received the same treatment now. I suppose I will be next.

[TheTomtompiper]

@StopSpamming1 If you need assistance of any kind, feel free to contact me.

[StopSpamming1]

@TheTomtompiper

Thanks! Do you have the number for dial-a-a hit-man? ;)

[ZZzzzzzWhat]

lol, well done.

[Wrath0fKhan]

Busted.

[TheTomtompiper]

@Wrath0fKhan Well and truly.