Daniel Hannan MEP: EU double standards on Tibet & Lisbon

[harj2009]

why does eu forget about the nation of Kashmir ? occupied by India !

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 Or Sindhudesh and Balochistan occupied by Pakistan!

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX what are u on about.Do you see 100 civilians getting shot dead in the areas u mention ? thoose areas have nothing to do with point I made.

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 Yes you do. I suggest you do a bit of research on it.

The point I'm making is Kashmir & Jammu is part of India because the ruler of it decided to side with India. Although there are deaths in Kashmir there are much more in Sindhudesh etc.

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX thats irrelevant , the British Parliament decided on the two nation theory. it doesnt matter what the unelected king thinks. sindhudesh doest exist, if you are talking about poor law and order then by that logic if a city has a low crime rate another country can invade it ??. applying the logic of its up to the ruler then the principality o hyderabad shouldve joined Pakistan and Sikkim would be a independent state

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 The British Parliament was never the ones that decided the two nation theory, that was Nehru and Jinnah that came up with that.

I think many would disagree with you and say that Sindhudesh does exist hence there are deaths caused by the fighting. The fact is Hyderabad's ruler did choose to join India rather than Pakistan hence your point is wrong.

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX nope Hyderabad, the PM of the King wanted to join pakistan, and Hyderabad remained independent until 1954. Goa and Sikkim two other regions which were never under british control, invaded by the Indian Army once the British left.

the two nation theory was what the British Parliament ordered , it doesnt matter how it got there, that was the doctrine used. sindhudesh, I think you mean sindh is a province in pakistan, and yes it has law and order problem but thats irrelevant

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 Why is it irelevant? Its part of Pakistan as unlawfully as Jammu and Kashmir are part of India (If not more)!

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX ive clearly defeated your argument , know you resorting to talking to repeating your self.

Its irrelevant how the two nation theory was agreed, what matters is that was the settlement the british agreed. If you agree to something you follow it through. Kashmir would be in pakistan. Hyderabad wanted to join pakistan but it had a hindu majority so it joined India, the wish of the king was irrelevant.

The point I was making is the EU sucks, its double standards and a a mini USSR

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 If only you had. I've repeated myself because you clearly don't understand.

Anyway the EU doesn't suck, it gives its member states a lot of unregulated trade which is always good. If you honestly knew anything about history or how the USSR worked you wouldn't make such a comparison.

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX uve repeated your self because you cant read.the crime rate of a country is irrelevant to the discussion of if a act passed by british parliament is legal,just and moral

u make shit up like sidhsduiasds whatever

the point i was making is Tibet,Kashmir,etc all need to be heard

the eu does suck its a nanny state.unregulated trade my ass. the EU parliament has no power to repeal laws and the president is chosen by a politburo of 26 people, the most powerful person is unelected

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 I've repeated myself because I can't read? Nice comeback /sarcasm. You made the point originally about crime rate i merely carried it on.

The EU provides a lot of free trade that boosts the economy of the member states. The President is not directly elected but is indirectly elected by the heads of government of each of the member states. Therefore you can hardly make a comparison to the USSR.

Please do research a bit about both the USSR and the EU before you make comments like that.

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX no u said there were more deaths in sindh so some how that place has no right to eixt 't hence there are deaths caused by the fighting'

u have no idea what your talking about.you dont need to sign away democracy get free trade

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 Your first sentence doesn't make sense.

We don't sign away democracy, it required a referendum to go into the EU and there was a second about continued membership of the EU, both were unanimous Yes votes. The EU is 100% elected, just not 100% directly elected. The Upper chamber of the EU is made up by the leaders of the respective member countries and lower chamber is directly elected by the electorate (us). The USSR had nothing close to this whatsoever.

[harj2009]

@xxksaoXX you said some bullshit about the homicide rate in sindh, and that somehow means the people are occupied . Tibet,Kashmir etc etc EU hypocrisy

in 10 yrs the eu with its own anthem,army,police,president,p­arliament with no democratic right to rule.75% of laws in the UK come from europe. the EU commission the real power makers are not elected.Germany,france and to an extent the UK,so a few head of states with less than 30% of votes in their own country rule over 500 million people

[xxksaoXX]

@harj2009 It has the democratic right to rule because according to the referendums the majority of people wish to be part EU. The EU also has the right to rule because of elected representatives in its legislature, although it doesn't have as much power as the 'real power makers' it still has significant political power in the EU. The 'real power makers' in the EU are the heads of Government of their respective countries, that is fact.

[daf867]

were you speaking to an empty house?

[silversynth]

No don't wear a tie its a free world not a fashion show.

[Ohyewildthong]

Wear a tie, Hannan!

[gtgale1]

Get Brown out. He will ruin your country with his silly ideas. Rule Britainure. God save the Queen And Britain.

[stev2k]

its awful the way that people watch this video and drool over the tories in the comments.

isnt it obvious by now that neither party are any good? isnt it obvious that there is something desperately wrong with our entire political system? we need proportional representation in parliament and minimization of government role in our every day affairs.

UK politics is so innane and meaningless.

[matrix4022]

Conservatives all the way; time to put some common sense back into UK politics!

[Apocholypse]

lol, here you are again.. Yea, i will vote conservative though my favourite party is UKIP, because they all seem so clever. Though, i'm not anti EU, just want a reasonable EU...

[2camjohn]

@Apocholypse Im the same. I love UKIP and what they stand for but the risk of Labout getting another term in office is too great.

[JamesCunnyy]

@2camjohn your not voting conservative are you from the poles its currently 33% tory 28% lib dem 27% labour so you may aswell help UKIP become a main party quicker as tories will win but from what it seems either way it will be a hung parliment unless something drastic happens in the next 2 weeks.

[Freefallfelixrulz]

@JamesCunnyy The poles are percentages of the vote. Thanks to labor reforms, they require muchless of the vote to get in than any other party as they split their larger stronghold seats into lots of smaller seats,while any tory or lib dem strongholds were amalgamated to form larger seats, ensuring that it is easier for labor to get in. In order to get Labor out, the conservatives need around 38%. Vote conservative or you may end up with 5 more years of Gordon Brown

[illuminatedSlave]

VOTE BNP !

[89murph]

@illuminatedSlave: I'd rather castrate myself, thank you!

[illuminatedSlave]

@89murph why ?

[paulcooke100]

I love the Tibetan flag on his desk. Guaranteed to get this video blocked in China

[JamesCunnyy]

@paulcooke100 Tibetan flag it should be a british flag but seems as though only UKIP cares about Britain anymore what a shame....

[ywrtywto09]

Grandstanding to the EU parliament again, it isn't up to the EU president, it's up to the governments of those countries whether to have a referendum or not, I guess that doesn't fit with his agenda though.

[TheAtheistKnight]

The French & Dutch voted no and their decisions were overturned.

I along with the majority voted no last year and my governments forcing us to vote on this again.

Mr. Hanann has a point in the lack of Democracy but he's in the wrong party, he should be in UKIP.

[ywrtywto09]

Like I said your government, not the EU.

[TheAtheistKnight]

There hands are being forced by the EU though.

It's just currently the politicians that are trying to have a real democracy are outnumbered by corrupt politicians.

[Freefallfelixrulz]

UKIP can't monopolize the anti-lisbon treaty veiwpoint, simply because they are a one-issue party, the conservatives deserve recognition for their repeated calls for referendum in britain, as do basically every british citizen who is not in the labor cabinet. We all called for a referendum, but isolationism can't work, and we shouldn't allow ourselves to take an unrealistic course at the next election, be it UKIP or BNP, just to protest against Brown's total disregard for the wishes the people.

[2camjohn]

@Freefallfelixrulz I think you should do some more research.

UKIP arent a one-issue party.

[Freefallfelixrulz]

@2camjohn Based on the ukip manifefsto they also want to increase unemployment, increase taxes on low earners while cutting taxes for high earners· "Abolish costly EU schemes such as carbon capping, emissions trading, and landfill taxes" (Allow businesses to destroy as much of the environment as they want, simply because the EU wouldn't like it) Encourage coal and nuclear fission power and discourage renewables, Leading to pollution and nuclear waste. They were better off with the one issue.

[2camjohn]

@Freefallfelixrulz Abolishing costly schemes.

Favouring power generating technologies that actually generate a substantial amount of power.

Simplifying the tax system.

Its refreshing to hear some rationality in politics for once rather than jobs for the boys and populist fluff (which you appear to favour).

Sadly ill be voting Conservatives because we need Gordon out now.

Finally

[Freefallfelixrulz]

@2camjohn on the issue of power generation. wether or not you believe in man made global warming, the fact reamins that we will run out of coal and we will run out of urainium and places to bury radioactive waste. Dissmising renawables out of hand because they are not efficient enough would be like scrapping the idea of trains because stevenson's rocket was too slow. The technology needs investment so that when the coal runs out we are not left an even bigger energy crisis than we already have

[2camjohn]

@Freefallfelixrulz

I think you have misunderstood slightly.

Nobody has said dismiss renewables forever.

Instead we should continue to develop them to the point where they can be used to produce a productive amount of power.

At the same time focusing tax payers money on proven technologies that will generate a lot of power.

If we spend every last penny we can currently borrow on renewables, the lights will go out in 10 years. If the lights go out we cant continue to develop any technology.

[Freefallfelixrulz]

@2camjohn New nuclear power will take over 10 years to build and get running. Renewables can be ready in a matter of months. While they are not the whole solution, they are at least an immediate increase in power output.

[gpshaw1987]

He isn't blaming the president, he is making a speech, Roberts Rules of Order state that you must address people through the chair at a meeting. He is being respectful of the rules, not blaming the president.

[Spenner56]

The United Nation's International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights :

Article 1 : All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic and cultural development.

Note the word `FREELY ´!

The only legal means of asking the people is a referendum.

Anything else is an illegal coup `d etat.

Yes,that means the EU as well !

[inlukh]

I wish he would have talked with such passion over Palestinians' plight too without an inherent fear of being sacked by the pro-Israeli lobbyists.

[z2b]

When Palestinians voted in Hamas they proved to the world that they wanted to create a theocratic dictatorship. The significance of that fact cannot be overlooked. The right to self-government only exists when the purpose of government is to protect individual rights. For example, if 51% of a population votes to kill the other 49% we dont say, oh, well theyre a democracy with the right to self government. Comparing Palestine to any western freedom loving country is absurd. Shame on you.

[inlukh]

Election of Hamas is a direct result of decades of brutal occupation. When one party oppresses the majority on a daily basis, there emerges a collective proclivity toward an entity that promulgates forceful retaliation against such blatant coercion, hence the birth of Hamas (not to mention the nativity of the group was financially and politically promoted by Israel to create wedge among PLO members).

[inlukh]

How could a nation implement an individual rights while it is not permitted to form a self-government in the first place? How is it that the minority (aka Israel) is dictating the right NOT to exist on the majority (Palestinians) while expecting reciprocity of opposite of what they preach?

[inlukh]

Israel is actively seeking to disallow any formation of meaningful social order on the other side of the fence so they can point fingers, claim the lack of validity for the Palestinians to become an independent state while continue with their insidious irredentism. How about a clarion call to dismember both radical right Lukid and Hamas all at once? If Israel does not wish to grant sovereignty, then it cannot expect the equal in return, period.

[z2b]

Election of Hamas is a direct result of decades of brutal occupation.

Sort of like united states under British rule? Oh wait no the Americans realized that what they wanted was Freedom. Whatever tyranny supposedly exists under Israel and I disagree with your analysis entirely it is no excuse whatsoever for wanting a theocratic dictatorship. And as I said above, self-determination is only a right in the context of pursuing individual rights.

[inlukh]

Are you that gullible to draw a moral equivalency between American revolution countering an equally, if not stronger, colonial power and a complete subjugation of Palestinian people under "occupation" of Israel? It seems like you are suffering from a major cognitive dissonance for failing to realize that under severe occupation, the only viable solution emerges from a source which exerts the most push back -- in this case Hamas. Nazis didn't get defeated solely by expressing an urge for freedom.

[inlukh]

Such pabulum of sputum may pass in the classroom of academia but has no merit in the reality in which the affairs are shaped. Israel is a dominate force over Palestinian population; they can end the occupation at any moment and make peace with their neighbors once and for all. But that's not their intention and their action speaks volume to such insidious scheme of furthering annexation of lands while implement a gradual ethnic cleansing. If no Palestine, no Israel, push for two state solution.

[z2b]

It is you, sir, who is unable to grasp the similarities involved in various historical comparisons. If you dont like the example of the American Revolution take then the example of France under Nazi occupation. Was the French response a desire to create a horrific dictatorship? Clearly not. .

Saying that Israel is a terrible oppressor (which I don't accept) would still not justify the Palestinian response.

[z2b]

Furthermore: Everything youre saying is aimed at excusing the Palestinians from responsibility for their choices. Rather than arguing that--no, Hamas isnt trying to create a theocratic dictatorship, or no, its goal isnt to destroy Israel and push the Israelis into the sea--instead you are trying to argue that such a position is justified on the highly dubious grounds that they are oppressed. Once again, oppression is not grounds for wanting to create a Muslim theocratic dictatorship!

[inlukh]

Learn the fine art of polemic, then come here with your poorly constructed late evening rhetorics, claim a self-satisfying victory. You are, naively, out of zeal and cognitive dissonance, juxtaposing two distinct topics, whose mutual exclusivity is not warranted, drawing absurd conclusions. I am talking about orange, you talk about asphalt.

[inlukh]

Every nation has an inalienable right to self-determination through a democratic process. It's not up to you to dictate what other countries' destiny is aught to be. despite that, my initial remark had nothing to do with the methodology of governance but rather a survival of one nation (e.g. Palestine) under the existential threat imposed by the occupying force (e.g. Israel). If that requires further explanation, then all hopes are lost; close your browser and go watch your Disney channel.

[inlukh]

For instance, in WWII, Russian and France (e.g. Palestine) both were brutally attacked and occupied by the Nazi Germany (e.g. Israel). No one questioned neither Russia nor France in their effort to defeat the Nazis by whatever means necessary -- notwithstanding that both countries had a diametrically antithetical ideological mindset when it came to self-govern -- one pursuing Communism, the other, Social Democratic.

[inlukh]

Palestinians are in the same adjunct as France and Russia were back in WWII and their political/social/economical ethos are not germane to the fact that Israel -- the aggressor and the occupier -- is ravishing their very existence. Get it? I guess not.

[inlukh]

Your egregious inverted logic is beyond any cogent reasoning that I have no choice but to call it a product of calculated prevarication. The Palestinians, as you falsely put it, are not seeking to install a dictatorship. I can easily reverse the argument and point out that Israel is a "Judaic theocratic dictatorship" base on the fact of their 40-year-long treatment and subjugation of Palestinians and their conspicuous intent in eradicating 5 million people.

[inlukh]

Another fallacy you purported is that "every" theocratic democracy is bound to culminate in dictatorship. Do I have to remind you, once again, that the radical religious right in Israel are pretty much running Israel's foreign policy? Hamas' (any other Palestinian group's) initial goal is to free their people from the yoke of oppression that Israel has put them under. As long as the occupation continues and Israel refuses to grant these people their rightful homeland, the conflict continues.

[inlukh]

Israel's rights to exist is proportionally dependence on the rights of Palestinians to establish their own respected sovereign country, period. Hamas is a direct result of decades of aggression, occupation, and lose of hope in an unfulfilled promise that they [Palestinians], too, can have an independent nation of their own. The only solution is the two-state solution. Any other discussion is simply a distraction to veneer the real issues at hand.

[z2b]

Verbosity doesnt add credence to your argument—despite what you might think. And no, its not a veneer to point out that a countrys right to exist depends on the type of governance it employs. You still have not addressed the basic argument here: If 51 percent of a country chooses to kill 49 percent we dont say, Oh, thats okay. Theyre being democratic. The point is that democracy, as such, is not the answer. The answer is individual rights.

[z2b]

A country that would make war on its own population—ie deny basic rights, for example the right to think independently and not be Muslim does not have the right to exist. A theocratic dictatorship doesnt have the right to exist. A country and people that wants to institute freedom under specific conditions can claim the right to self-government. This is not the case in Palestine and I have no sympathy for aspiring theocratic dictatorships.

[ChinaKillsNuns]

Is everyone aware that Tibet is a prison camp for Tibetans ????

If not, please go to video.google. com (take out the space) and watch

Dispatches Undercover in Tibet (48 minutes)

and

Leaving Fear Behind (24 minutes)

and learn about modern Tibet and that Tibetans in Tibet are being OPPRESSED very badly by the evil chinese communist party.

[kkklownknight6699]

Fuck Britain

[mickyh234]

And you too.

[SoLoLaamer]

I never herd of ron paul because he is exists outside of fox news .

[libertyplayground]

RON PAUL R3VOLUTION

[TacJammer]

*This* American knows who Cato the Elder was. "Carthago delenda..." etc., etc.

[Spenner56]

The right to justice...but not really. Imprisonment without trial or evidence ( google : EU corpus juris ) !

The right to free speech...but not really ` Criticism of the EU is akin to blasphemy´.

( European Court of Justice ruling 274/99)

The right to strike...but not really.

If the strike restricts movement of goods,persons etc.then it is illegal.

(ECJ rulings : C-438/05 & C-341/05).

Lisbon/constitution violates article 1 of the UN Covenant on Social & Political RIGHTS !

1984.

[lagrangewei]

china does not assume Tibetan doesn't have representation, china practices soviet democracy and there are elected representative, what dalai lama represent is the minority should not be able to dictate the terms of government. especially not after his role in unpopular armed rebellion that cause him to flee.

tibet is not a separate political entity from china, if a vote is done, it must be done by the population of all of china as stated in the constitution. not a "border" of dalai lama picking

[mossmac1]

lagrangewei - so are you a Chinese agent or just plain ignorant - or both!

[varickwt]

wow soviet democracy? that's a new one...

[jumpingqi]

In answer to the recently-removed question - yes, it is Latin. Echoing the Roman orator Cato, Hannan says "pacto olisipiensis censenda est": "the Lisbon Treaty must be voted on".

(Cato used to end any speech with the phrase "delenda est Carthago"... "Carthage must be destroyed").

[PAZ0619]

Cato the Elder lol. I wonder if Americans (or some people) even know who he is.

[zuzieqz]

know Cato...and Latin...had to look up the word, Olisipienis, though...I'll readily admit that...but it's not exactly a common Latin word...but anyway, kind of offensive dude...

[PAZ0619]

Of course, but I doubted that 2 out of 10 Americans would know who he is. After all, both Catos( Elder and the Younger) were the embodiment of the Republicanism of the past.

[Jacobitess]

Not to say American education isn't woefully impoverished, but which nation is endowed with a good one? Living abroad, I know a whole lot of ignorant Brits.

[PAZ0619]

I do think most people know Cato Institute though. It is named after the Cato Letter's

[PAZ0619]

Although I think it is funny that Cato always ended his speech with Carthage must be destroyed(Carthago delenda est).

[bananaboom21]

if they went to a halfway decent school, then yes, Americans have heard of Cato.

[PAZ0619]

Too bad it isnt the case. I dun remember teachers talk about Cato in middle or high school.

[ghbg00107]

Wow! This man's forehead is too high for a human!

[kpcmg]

how about somebody comes with the flag of Palestine and says few words like "stop the fucking holocaust!"

[rsjonesco]

The Palestinians are led by a bunch of terrorist in the Gaza Strip. They launch missiles at Israel and it is supposed to do nothing. Israel talks peace and Hamas answers with missiles. We need to support Israel and its right to exist as a peaceful nation. The Palestinians can stop the fighting by stopping launching missiles. It is a simple concept that pro-terrorist supporters like KPCMG don't understand.

[WhoFlungPoop2]

his got a little Tibetan flag

[jbb66]

wish we had a politician like him in US.... with guts

[Cockwallet]

you have one, he's called Ron Paul. too bad no-one wanted him to be president

[jbb66]

cockwallet, you can't even compare the two... very different. Only similarity is they disagree with their government.

Ron Paul is a loon

[mossmac1]

Rubbish - do your research - in a recent interview, when asked, Dan the man says that, if he had been able to, he would have voted for Ron Paul in the recent election....

[SoLoLaamer]

No one even knows who ron paul is, I have never herd him make a speech , Ron paul is not like this guy.

[NewSeattle]

Type "Ron Paul" into google or youtube. You can find plenty of his speeches. :-)

[varickwt]

plenty of people wanted to vote for him but not enough people have brains in this country (USA) including so called educated types...

[wildhorses0]

Dan the Man!

[XenoAlex2222]

I Love this

wildhorses0!

Also see my YouTube site & receive FREE Gift Cards!

[BozNeroli]

Can we get this guy to come to the US?

[oakd9]

who would listen to him if he came to the u.s.? we would just make fun of his accent , take pictures of him in his swim suit, dig up any bad thing hes ever done even form childhood and gossip about who hes dating..

if jesus himself came back in the form of a wrinkled old man who was single and asian and spoke nothing but the truth he would never get elected

[ChrisOOOtof]

If Jesus came back, he would have a nice little talk with you.

[oakd9]

why cause im speaking the the truth? im glad you know what Jesus is thinking. let me know how he feels about you.

 and you know deep down inside im right.

[marneus]

Lisbon's Treaty must be voted, he says

[angeljenny55]

This man is awesome!

[Srhandel]

Bravo!!

[sgtjab]

He is the man!

[pacothepiddler]

Superb!

[FatherWarhol]

Wonderful.

Gorgeous.

This is exactly what I was saying down the pub when China was having another bash at Tibet.

[Ahithophella]

I don't know Latin, but I would guess "censenda" means something along the lines of "repudiated."

[arfywarfy]

SUPER!!! Please come to the United States and REPLACE congress.

[nnjital]

BRAVO!!!!!! We in the USA cannot talk against China, because they own us.

[rigolissimo]

What is that Latin quotation at the end ?

Pactio olisipiensis censenda est ?

Lisbon's Treaty must be "censored" ?

[DrDave953]

Basically means we must be allowed a vote on the treaty.

Dave.

[MetalHeadViking]

Great stuff Dan!