Shit, The P51 was one of my faverate planes, wish I had enough cash to buy one, but a vintage plane like that would caust thousadnds if not hundreds of thousands.
LOL- idiot it was the old fart pilots plabe and he was responsible for his airplane falling apart in the air and killing innocent people- we are not talking about people dying in an earthquake or getting struck by lightebing here- this plane in fact was warehoused for years due to wear and tear issues before he killed all those people.
They didn't roll it out of mothballs and go flying. It was rebuilt with heavy modifications over 4 years before racing again. One speculation is that they didn't do enough flight testing with all of the new modifications.
The pilot had a current medical certificate, as required for all pilots. Not that it would do any good when you're passed out from G-forces no human can tolerate.
The airlane he owned fell apart in the air and he killed a hell of a lot of people- who is responsible- or are you just another one of those people who bitch about 'rights' all day long without ever taking into account responsibilities ?
@trojanspaghetti And Im smart enough to look at actual news reports.You actually think Wiki is right all the time? Besides,your the one that said 20 dead so what kind of smart ass are you?
My thought is that the trim tab was only part of the story - more likely it was a sign of a more major failure in the elevator or the cables that control them.
I really hate to say this but, that guy was 74 years old who was flying that plane and I know he was a professorial, but I don't think he should have been flying at that age.
Gotta imagine what Kamikaze attacks from the Japanese during WWII must have been like if this was THIS terrifying. Imagine. Planes, close to the size of American fighter aircraft loaded with high explosives slamming into the bow of the battleship that you must defend to the death. Makes you think, doesn't it?
Ejection seats work at 0 feet altitude and up and at zero to well over 500 MPH. WHAT are you talking about? OH Never mind, it's my mistake for attempting to communicate with you, since you don't understand the basic laws of physics let alone aeronautical engineering.
I think the real message here (which I was too polite to point out to you until now) is that the late Mr. Speer probably yelled at you and argued with you because you kept offering unwanted suggestions to a plane owner who knew what was best for his racing experience and his airplane. I know enough to state that pilots don't like tire-kickers. If you were capable of building racing Merlins, then your name should be on the VERY short list of people who actually do.
@FiveCentsPlease: As a professional tooling expert with 35 years in manufacturing I was going to using a 5 axis CNC to make replacements from billet magnesium for the original investment cast magnesium main-spar landing gear pivots for Bill. We were going to be selling them. I warned him over what I recognized as potential dangers in repair style and I was correct, he died. That said how many planes have you restored?
So far, you've blamed Speer's death on 1. Engine failure, 2. Prop failure, 3. Lack of an ejection seat, and now 4. A poor repair job. So which is it? If I were you I would not put in a resume at the NTSB, who have no time for such hysterics. Also, I think FlugWerk has the new gear pivots covered in the AP-51 parts if they meet approval, so I wouldn't apply for that patent yet.
@FiveCentsPlease: DO NOT MISQUOTE ME! TO PARAPHRASE MYSELF: I said to Bill, 121" Hg would lead to catastrophic potentially fatal engine failure, it did. I simply suggested for many reasons, (his own well being) he not race but that's too ethereal for you to grasp. My comments regarding this video are: This racing is asinine. People come to see this crap hoping for death, exactly as with Formula 1 auto racing. I lost a good friend. Go back to your sniffing model airplane glue.
You're awfully hyper-sensitive for someone claiming to wrench on airplanes--not a cool headed type working on parts people depend on. To quote Dwight Thorn, he's seen 150" but does not recommend it. Using his Allison con-rods, his engines have been running 135" at lower rpm. The race builders are quick to point out how sensitive the engines are to over boosting.
@FiveCentsPlease "You're awfully hyper-sensitive for someone claiming to wrench on airplanes--not a cool headed type working on parts people depend on." - Maybe he doesn't have to deal with people like you at his place of work?
Again, the NTSB report for the crash of N51U states that a blown prop feathering seal spayed oil all over the windscreen and the plane crashed from the pilots loss of visual with the terrain while on final. This is a different scenario than the a blown engine which you keep harping on.
Paul, sending me rambling and incoherent personal attacks in my message box really doesn't help to convince me that there is any credibility to any of the claims or background that you have provided in this discussion. In one message, you've done more to present yourself as a immature nutter than as an aviation professional with a reputation to protect. For the benefit of other readers here it should be noted that the info you provide is quite possibly suspect.
@FiveCentsPlease I tried answering you here BUT it was blocked. Me rambling? I don't think so. All that I said is this fellow died due to two things: 1) The trim tab tearing off at 500 MPH+ will not cause catastrophic and total loss of control. You have not demonstrated this to be wrong. 2) This "Sport" is deadly and serves no purpose. I lost a good friend, due to over-stressing of the engine which supplies the pressurized oil to the constant velocity propeller.
You were blocked after your rambling and incoherent messages mixed with personal insults, not before. Not very mature of you. Reno's days are numbered not from the issues you raise, but from the rising expense in operating these aircraft and the fact that they are more valuable in stock configuration as historic investment capital. Look at the ones being rebuilt back to stock. Future racing might include new-build replicas, such as the AP-51 Palomino-a kit Mustang.
@FiveCentsPlease I was blocked out of pure Censorship by you, personally. You're deliberately misrepresenting yourself. Leading up to a point isn't rambling. Difficult with minimal permitted words. You behave as if you were one of the guys but NO, you literally TROLL lurking just under the surface. You're running your little Feifedom here as would any Tyrant. I'll bet you're some PR guy working for the Reno Air Racing Authority or some such "Damage Control" watching for their $!
@Zippy1one Look up the rest of the things about me. I am rather well versed in a multitude of disciplines. What do you do you supposedly nice person you? Bitte recal meine Anfrage. Sie werden helfen, ja? Du weißt schon, der elektrische Antrieb der DBAG dreibegriffige formvorsignal? Danke!
@Zippy1one: Über Medikamente, die Sie halten sich geht. Psychopharmaka werden nicht benötigt. But you continual reference to "nice people" does indicates that you do require such as this has crossed over and into "projection." My comment that this 74 year-old fellow was at fault (if the above is true, he should have done a more thorough pre-flight inspection especially on that trim tab!) for the death of himself and the others choosing to "stand too close for their own good" remains.
Paul, what forensic data do you possess that concludes the pilot's age was the cause here? You don't demonstrate a lot of understanding about the aerodynamics or the physics involved in this plane crash, or wake turbulence or control surface flutter, or unproven airframe design changes which could all be factors. You have only concluded that A) the sport is dangerous and B) the pilot was too old.
Well, I distinctly recall blocking you because of rambling and incoherent private messages from you, mixed with personal insults. Now you've brought that mentality out in plain sight for all of us to read. Nah...I'll think I'll just leave you blocked there, friend.
@FiveCentsPlease: Okay, now I am annoyed. You do owe me an apology. You aren't even paying attention. Look at the timings of those postings. I wrote directly to you as a response to your blocking me. I see I am correct with my conclusions regarding who and what you are.
Paul, you don't insult somebody with private messages and then publicly demand an apology from them. Life doesn't work that way, unless your grip on reality is more fragile than I'm starting to believe.
@FiveCentsPlease: 2 cont.) This crash was due to the physical limitations of the pilot. He was not seen properly seated prior to his going in. No 74 year old has the cardiovascular system needed to indefinitely contend with the G forces that must be endured with this racing.
NO ONE is addressing the obvious: This "sport" is driven by egos and greed.
Air racing used to improve the breed. This stuff is only destroying the few remaining Mustangs, the greatest fighter ever made.
It says many people have horrific images and video but I am yet to see one pic or video of a dead body or a body part, even blood? Seriously, where are THOSE pics and vids?
Wow what a CRAPPY AIRFRAME that P51 Mustang where losing an elevator trim tab would cause complete and total catastrophic loss of control. OR perhaps you are all full of it? Maybe there's too much money in air racing for the truth to be told to the willing spectators? Rule one, Pilot Error. FOR EXAMPLE (there are too many to list) -anybody happen know his blood glucose level prior to take off? The flight surgeon of course not being susceptible to bribes and the like, he is after all ONLY human!
Think about why a servo tab exists and how it works. It is designed to relieve control force. The faster you go, the more you trim to relieve forward stick force. You are still producing more and more downward lift with the horizontal tail though.. Think about a massive amount of air flowing over the tail, which then suddenly changes shape. Maybe it was just a design that had far exceeded its limit
@Adveniotu: Why don't you instead think about the intended purpose of this airframe? The Fighting P51's came back from the Continent with bits of telephone poles, wires imbedded in the wings, complete loss of control surfaces etc. yet still crossed the channel to England. The losing of a trim tab is not sufficient for total and catastrophic loss of control. TOO MANY PEOPLE want this to be overlooked, forgotten you name it ASAP for monetary reasons! HE WAS TOO OLD TO DO THIS!
Bob Hannah is a much younger pilot and he blacked out instantly when a trim tab broke on P-51 Voodoo Chile in 1998. His plane rocketed to 9000 feet before Hannah woke up and regained control. Without the trim tab, the pilot would have to constantly fight the natural forces making the plane climb while flying at high speed. Look for the video from the backstretch and see Ghost going nearly vertical.
@FiveCentsPlease My point exactly! He too would not qualify to fly combat. This is stupidly dangerous stuff to do. My personal friend, Bill Speer (48) after arguing with me regarding his "Pegasus" pulling 121" Hg where as the V1650-7 was rated at 69" Hg in war emergency. I said to him "WHAT if you blow a head gasket at 450MPH at 100 feet?" He got really P.O.ed. and yelled at me. He "went in" at the next Reno race, gasket blown. I still have his Obit from Channel 51 in San Diego.
The NTSB says that the Bill Speer accident was caused by a failed prop seal which covered his windscreen with oil, and he crashed while attempting to land without visibility. The racing Merlins do have some mods, including reinforced crank journals. Many also use a clever mod of using heavier Allison piston rods to keep the prop tips sub-sonic. According to the old-school Merlin guys, the trick is to build a strong engine and crank up the boost higher than wartime.
@FiveCentsPlease: Yes I know. What I said is indeed the cause. The FAA suspected the prop seal but didn't rule out head gasket failure. Regardless of which seal failed it was the insane manifold pressure that caused Bill's failure. One of the greatest purposes of mechanical engineering is predicting failure. It can only go so far as to "when." This is still a suicidal sport and face it. Just like Formula 1 auto racing, the audience for the most part is there to witness a death.
@FiveCentsPlease: I am quite certain when Bill radioed in "I can't see, oil...." I know he was thinking about our argument two weeks prior. I questioned a pop-rivet repair on the horizontal engine mount and he railed at me "Damn it Paul, the FAA signed off on it!" I also suggested he consider a Martin-Baker ejection seat. He went on to say "Do you know how much those Martin-Bakers weigh?" Believe me, I do know what was running through his mind during his last moments.
An ejection system has no benefit 100 feet off of the ground at 500 mph. They are heavy and expensive, so I can understand why your suggestion was not appreciated and not practical. If a pilot can climb, then he can exit the plane the old-fashioned way like Kevin Eldridge.
Idiot sacraficed stability and control just to gain a little speed and it cost innocent people their lives. If he had smeared himself on a runway or field then so what but the jackass crashed in the stands.
@blanginit ; YOU ARE A DUMB-ASS.. THOSE PEOPLE WERE THERE TO SEE DEATH. MAYBE NOT THEIR OWN,BUT DEATH.JUST LIKE ON THE INTERSTATE,AND THE RUBBERNECKS. LIKE FORMULA 1,NASCAR.GROW-UP!!!
I think we all agree that the trim tab separating from the aircraft is a factor however you will also notice in the planes final seconds the tail wheel is extended don't know if this is a cause or effect but I do know the elevator and trim tab cables are in close proximity to the retracted tail wheel, is it possible that they became fouled in the linkage causing the wheel to drop down and also causing loss of elevator control?
I'm glad for photos, and a reasonable explanation. Excellent video.
Personally , I feel like the pilots should stay further away from the grandstands. I'm 64, and not in terrible shape, physically, or mentally, but, "I'm not as good as I once was." This guy would have possibly fared better, if he could objectively analyze himself. Cheering fans make this harder to do.
"I don't know how this is gonna fly." deserved more thought.
Sorry the guy lost his life, as well as the spectators.
I love watching air races, but the facts are clear. The ruling body of this sport has to take these guys in hand, if for no other reason than protecting them from themselves. You can't go chopping chunks off the wing without exhaustive testing to make sure the plane will be safe under racing conditions. Pre-race, Leeward admitted he had no real idea as to how the plane would handle during the race. This was a reckless and cavalier attitude, an attitude that must be eliminated from the sport.
@Sealy57 For any sort of progress, there needs to be risk. Especially in racing. It doesn't matter if its on the ground, or in the air. You do anything and everything you can in the name of speed.
@Sealy57 I don't want to start a flame war here (I have a tendency to, I get pretty flared up about things, so I'm really trying hard not to come off as a jerk to anyone). But I believe that the spectators should have at least assumed that there was a good bit of risk attending these events, as with any race really. I do however believe in more pre-race testing of major structural changes.
Statistically, auto racing has had more spectator injuries than air racing. That said, both autos and planes have kinetic energy that's going to SOMEWHERE if something goes wrong. Auto racing fans are trapped inside the "bowl" of a track where flying debris into the grandstands is a literal guarantee some day. At least air racing is out in the open, but an out-of-control plane can travel for over a mile in some cases. A spectator must assume the risks.
At 0.57 you dont see him under the canopy which tells me he blacked out and those little movements you see was his last ditch effort to try to save who he could. He knew he was going in, he never stopped flying her. I believe loosing a trim tab was'nt the main cause, but it did'nt help., 77 years old and pulling those kind of G's, he could'nt handle them any more, but he was'nt going to stop flying.
@wolfen1176. The design basically was created to exploit the Meredith effect which is effectively the same principle by which a ramjet worked. It wasn't very efficient however and though it greatly reduced the drag of the radiator it didn't actually produce positive thrust (i.e. drag outweighed thrust). As far as I know, this design was first deliberately incorporated on the Supermarine Spitfire (though the earlier Hurricane had a similar radiator).
The reason for the crash was the seat bolts broke. The pilot was now laying flat and not even in the picture. The Vertical Stabilizer was not the cause.
@WizzRacing The reason the seat bolts broke was excessive gravitational force. (ie:G's.) The high G's were created when the trim tab on the HORIZONTAL stabilizer broke off. The airplane zoomed upward abrubtly causing the high Gs. The high G's also caused the retractable tailwheel to break free of it's locks and slam into the "down" position.
@WizzRacing You are incorrect. At 490+ miles per hour, the trim tab breaking off, will indeed, cause an abrupt and violent pull up. Do the research. I did.
What report? The NTSB is still completing the investigation. Video clips made from the back stretch clearly show the plane pitching up very quickly and violently. This is supported by the incident with VooDoo, which also lost a trim tab and pitched up and caused the pilot to lose consciousness temporarily until he woke up at 9000'. The trim tab helps neutralize forces on the elevator to control pitch at high speed and once gone the plane pitched up.
@WizzRacing I am a flight instructor. I know it seems crazy that the trim tab would have caused this but it did. I go to the Reno air races every year. The faster you fly the more the wing wants to lift. The trim tab neutralizes the forces on the elevator cables and stick so you don'f constantly fight the airplane to keep it from climbing. flying an airplane level at 100 knots without a trim tab gets tiring real fast. Now turn that into 500mph.
@WizzRacing Good grief. "Vertical" stabilizer? There is no such part on an airplane. Perhaps you mean, "Horizontal" stabilizer. The vertical control surface on an airplane is called the fin. That is what the rudder is attached to. (often referred to as the tail fin and rudder) The horizontal stabilizer on P-51s and other airplanes from that era have a control surface attached to it. It's called the "elevator". Galloping Ghost lost it's trim tab. It was attached to the elevator on the stabilzer.
@trexx63 The vertical stabilizers, vertical stabilisers, or fins, of aircraft, missiles or bombs are typically found on the aft end of the fuselage or body, and are intended to reduce aerodynamic side slip and provide direction stability. It is analogical to a skeg on boats and ships
right out of wikipedia, maybe you should have checked before you said something
@trexx63 It all means the same thing whether its a fin or a stabilizer. In aviation its referred to as a Horizontal and Vertical stabilizer. Attached to those is the Elevator and Rudder respectively. At least thats what I teach all my students out of the FAA manual.
What a load of crap people that run air shows and races need think a lot more about this kind of thing. As many of these so called tragitys happen too often all over the world at air shows and even air races.
Spectators Be Awear of the dangers of air shows.
Planes and jets are human made , have human pilots and are serviced by humans.
Humans are not perfect and can srew things up if this happends at an air show people can DIE.
@AVAMagneticlev Then don't go, pretty simple isn't it? Everyone involved in airshows or air races knows exactly what the dangers are. And it's spelled recent not resant.
@AVAMagneticlev People can slip on a stray banana peel at the grocery store and break their backs and die. Just because it's human made doesn't mean it's always dangerous. Shit happens, that's how life is. This was a mistake. Unfortunately the pilot was very well trained but this had to happen to him. People go to airshows to be entertained by incredible machines that we humans can be proud we have created. If you don't like airshows, don't go. Rather, spend your money on spelling lessons.
As a seasoned stunt pilot myself I can assure you that, at that low altitude, performing strafing type maneuvers as if simultaneously dodging flak or buildings requires that your machine be intact. There is no room for error at that low altitude performing a roll or a loop of any kind. Certainly not with ten feet removed from the wingspan. Obama can be seen in the background with his laughing kids and they are shooting at the plane several times with what looks like AK47 paintball guns.
Notice that none of the footage of this indecent actually shows the plane hitting the ground. The plane was in the air, and then there was an explosion. Where was the fuel? Planes carry fuel and there was no fire. There is also a lack of plane parts. This is because the plane didn't actually crash. It was a missile. Before you call me stupid, where is the evidence that says Bush took no part in this??
I'd like to know what other P51 pilots would honestly not protectively say about this. Trim tabs could be used to get a P38 out of compressibility but this is a case of a pilot's stroke, etc. I really doubt a trim tab loss would cause the entire plane to go out of control to this degree. I lost a good friend, Bill Speer many years ago at Reno in his P51. I was going to start one myself with his help. He blew a head gasket and went in. I warned him that he might: 121" Hg. Boy did he yell at me!
The cause was indeed a failed trim tab and its mechanism. The mechanism is a single push/pull rod; when the trim tab broke away, the pushrod could've easily been forced into the elevator's slot by aerodynamic forces and jammed the elevator, wedging the elevator into an upright deflection, preventing it from returning to neutral position. The pilot did haul back on the stick before the turn to preserve altitude during the turn and instead encountered this issue. The rest is academic.
@SenorSpode: What about the throttle? If not physically incapacitated, I'd presume one would attempt a power reduction at speed. Why the reluctance to realize this is more likely the shock of what was happening causing the poor old guy to have a heart attack or a stroke.
Man I remember when this happened. My dad wanted to go to the Reno Air Races that year, as he does every year, and wanted me to go with him. He wanted to get one of those VIP seats. The only thing was that his work had him scheduled to work those days so he could not go. Both of us could have been in that section when it happened. Just goes to show that things happen for a reason.
A much younger pilot flying another racing Mustang in 1998 blacked out instantly after loosing a trim tab and experiencing deceleration g-forces. He was lucky because the plane pitched up and didn't turn over, and he was able to regain control. So your point on age is not relevant for this accident.
@neelantra In reply to your previous comment, that was removed. If you want too however I don't think the other YouTubers like that to much as your original comment was removed and the other was flagged as spam. Stupid spammer...
Current day the Reno crash was caused by the one tab failing. If you google it you see evidence in pictures. You can see that the tab is missing in one picture. You will notice that the rear landing wheel is down, that is hydraulically powered meaning it would take 10g's to break. The pilot is no where to been meaning he is bent over. Thumbs up so people can see this.
@Revoman859 - Actually the current theory is that the seat broke, Jimmy reached for something grab inadvertently lowering the tail gear, lost control of the airplane, trim tab breaks due to load and the rest is just a very sad story.
Evidence supporting that theory are very clear video showing plane going out of control with its tail gear lowered but the trim tab still clearly intact and the fact that he is not visible strapped into the seat, which he should be even if he passed out.
That is interesting. Hadn't heard this theory. Either theory works though... Leave both tabs on and don't unbuckle to reach for something during a race. He crashed, people died. As long it doesn't happen again.
That is interesting. Hadn't heard this theory. Either theory works though... Leave both tabs on and don't unbuckle to reach for something during a race. He crashed, people died. As long it doesn't happen again.
Reaching while pushing hard on the stick in a turn? If any cockpit video was recovered or recorded from live feed, then that will be easy to answer. The two main theories is that the trim tab failed suddenly or from flutter, or that he flew into dirty air causing the loss of control and trim failure. Either way, video from the backstretch shows the plane suddenly pulling nearly vertical at high speed, which could have broken the tail wheel and seat from G-loading.
So if anyone is interested the reason he crashed was because the P-51 has two trim tabs on the elevators to help it fly level. They are BOTH ADJUSTABLE, and extremely important. The pilot fixed one of them level and just had ONE adjustable to keep the plane flyable. He was warned. Back in the 60's a P-51's tabs broke during a race causing the plane to go in to a 10g climb. The pilot blacked out and when he came to his face was on the floor. He was able to throttle down and limp the plane back.
@BuddyWillis WWII planes usually have the possibility to be climbed out... but there's no ejection-seat or something... on the other hand, they fly to low and fast to make faults...
@BuddyWillis Yeah, no ejection seats in WWII fighters. If you had enough altitude and the plane wasn't out of control, you would jettison the canopy and jump. It was very dangerous, and you could hit the tail and be killed. At low level, there wouldn't even be time for your chute to open. Still better than WWI, when they didn't even have chutes! Military jets started using seats in the 50's, but they were dangerous and killed lots of pilots anyway.
@justforever96: They can be fitted but the weight penalty of such a thing makes you uncompetitive. I brought that up and other "items" to my friend before he went in in his P51 many years ago. He just didn't want to hear what I had to say, ie: 121" of Hg when a V1650-7 was rated
Shit, The P51 was one of my faverate planes, wish I had enough cash to buy one, but a vintage plane like that would caust thousadnds if not hundreds of thousands.
twistedyogert 1 hour ago
Im so high and I want to smoke more.
98moparboy 15 hours ago
1:01 If you look close you can pick out body parts.
madisonelectronic 1 day ago
Trim tab broke away, plane make a sudden high-G pull, Pilot pass out or at least pin down onto his seat by the excessive G, and WHAM!!!
I Don't see the Pilot after the crash. Where is he?
phadil 1 day ago
Anyway, this incident just proves the old saying
THERE IS NO FART LIKE AN OLD FART
trojanspaghetti 3 days ago
ribs in pieces.
wii2050 3 days ago
@wii2050
rest in peas
trojanspaghetti 3 days ago
Oh, and unlike the discription, two people were not killed- it was more like 20 people were killed by that stupid son of a bitch.
trojanspaghetti 4 days ago
@trojanspaghetti LOL idiot the planes rear wing broke causing it to be uncontrollable
ByPLU7O 4 days ago
@ByPLU7O
LOL- idiot it was the old fart pilots plabe and he was responsible for his airplane falling apart in the air and killing innocent people- we are not talking about people dying in an earthquake or getting struck by lightebing here- this plane in fact was warehoused for years due to wear and tear issues before he killed all those people.
YOU get your facts straight BOZO
trojanspaghetti 4 days ago
@trojanspaghetti
They didn't roll it out of mothballs and go flying. It was rebuilt with heavy modifications over 4 years before racing again. One speculation is that they didn't do enough flight testing with all of the new modifications.
FiveCentsPlease 1 day ago
@FiveCentsPlease
On the plane, or on the old fart ?
trojanspaghetti 1 day ago
@trojanspaghetti
The pilot had a current medical certificate, as required for all pilots. Not that it would do any good when you're passed out from G-forces no human can tolerate.
FiveCentsPlease 1 day ago
@FiveCentsPlease
because the plane he owned fell apart in mid-air- it was his fault and responsibility and he was the reason all those people got killed
trojanspaghetti 1 day ago
@trojanspaghetti
Not exactly, but you're free to keep repeating that if generalizing the accident makes you feel better.
FiveCentsPlease 19 hours ago
@FiveCentsPlease
Generalizing ?
The airlane he owned fell apart in the air and he killed a hell of a lot of people- who is responsible- or are you just another one of those people who bitch about 'rights' all day long without ever taking into account responsibilities ?
trojanspaghetti 13 hours ago
@trojanspaghetti
Not bitching, just recognizing that you aren't an accident investigator and the events are more complicated than your simplistic summary.
FiveCentsPlease 12 hours ago
@FiveCentsPlease
A part fell off his airplane that he was flying and owned. he is 100% responsible as the owner and the pilot. It is very simple.
trojanspaghetti 11 hours ago
Comment removed
SittingMooseShaman 1 day ago
@trojanspaghetti And clearly you dont have a clue either since the official death toll was 9 people.
shadowr434 3 days ago
@shadowr434
The official death toll was 11, at least I am smart enouph to wiki.
trojanspaghetti 3 days ago
@trojanspaghetti just not smart enough to spell enough...
surfbro16 3 days ago
@trojanspaghetti And Im smart enough to look at actual news reports.You actually think Wiki is right all the time? Besides,your the one that said 20 dead so what kind of smart ass are you?
shadowr434 3 days ago
@shadowr434
No, I said it 'was more like 20" which is closer than the truth than in the description which said only 3 were killed.
trojanspaghetti 3 days ago
The reason the plane crashed and so many died is because the pilot was a self-centered son of a bitch.
trojanspaghetti 4 days ago
Why would the camera guy film the ground instead of the crash?
pencon61 4 days ago
My thought is that the trim tab was only part of the story - more likely it was a sign of a more major failure in the elevator or the cables that control them.
@paullubliner @FiveCentsPlease - You guys done yet?
JBofBrisbane 4 days ago
I got my PPL here in 1968 with the Ag Aviation Academy.
MrSidTaylor 6 days ago
The heavy metal music and video FX were really unnessesary.
TranceFur 1 week ago 15
I really hate to say this but, that guy was 74 years old who was flying that plane and I know he was a professorial, but I don't think he should have been flying at that age.
DarKKnightt07 1 week ago
Gotta imagine what Kamikaze attacks from the Japanese during WWII must have been like if this was THIS terrifying. Imagine. Planes, close to the size of American fighter aircraft loaded with high explosives slamming into the bow of the battleship that you must defend to the death. Makes you think, doesn't it?
SETHWANTSAHUG 1 week ago
Ejection seats work at 0 feet altitude and up and at zero to well over 500 MPH. WHAT are you talking about? OH Never mind, it's my mistake for attempting to communicate with you, since you don't understand the basic laws of physics let alone aeronautical engineering.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
I think the real message here (which I was too polite to point out to you until now) is that the late Mr. Speer probably yelled at you and argued with you because you kept offering unwanted suggestions to a plane owner who knew what was best for his racing experience and his airplane. I know enough to state that pilots don't like tire-kickers. If you were capable of building racing Merlins, then your name should be on the VERY short list of people who actually do.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease: As a professional tooling expert with 35 years in manufacturing I was going to using a 5 axis CNC to make replacements from billet magnesium for the original investment cast magnesium main-spar landing gear pivots for Bill. We were going to be selling them. I warned him over what I recognized as potential dangers in repair style and I was correct, he died. That said how many planes have you restored?
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
So far, you've blamed Speer's death on 1. Engine failure, 2. Prop failure, 3. Lack of an ejection seat, and now 4. A poor repair job. So which is it? If I were you I would not put in a resume at the NTSB, who have no time for such hysterics. Also, I think FlugWerk has the new gear pivots covered in the AP-51 parts if they meet approval, so I wouldn't apply for that patent yet.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease: DO NOT MISQUOTE ME! TO PARAPHRASE MYSELF: I said to Bill, 121" Hg would lead to catastrophic potentially fatal engine failure, it did. I simply suggested for many reasons, (his own well being) he not race but that's too ethereal for you to grasp. My comments regarding this video are: This racing is asinine. People come to see this crap hoping for death, exactly as with Formula 1 auto racing. I lost a good friend. Go back to your sniffing model airplane glue.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
You're awfully hyper-sensitive for someone claiming to wrench on airplanes--not a cool headed type working on parts people depend on. To quote Dwight Thorn, he's seen 150" but does not recommend it. Using his Allison con-rods, his engines have been running 135" at lower rpm. The race builders are quick to point out how sensitive the engines are to over boosting.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
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@FiveCentsPlease "You're awfully hyper-sensitive for someone claiming to wrench on airplanes--not a cool headed type working on parts people depend on." - Maybe he doesn't have to deal with people like you at his place of work?
jimmyholster 6 days ago
@paullubliner
Again, the NTSB report for the crash of N51U states that a blown prop feathering seal spayed oil all over the windscreen and the plane crashed from the pilots loss of visual with the terrain while on final. This is a different scenario than the a blown engine which you keep harping on.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@paullubliner
Paul, sending me rambling and incoherent personal attacks in my message box really doesn't help to convince me that there is any credibility to any of the claims or background that you have provided in this discussion. In one message, you've done more to present yourself as a immature nutter than as an aviation professional with a reputation to protect. For the benefit of other readers here it should be noted that the info you provide is quite possibly suspect.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease I tried answering you here BUT it was blocked. Me rambling? I don't think so. All that I said is this fellow died due to two things: 1) The trim tab tearing off at 500 MPH+ will not cause catastrophic and total loss of control. You have not demonstrated this to be wrong. 2) This "Sport" is deadly and serves no purpose. I lost a good friend, due to over-stressing of the engine which supplies the pressurized oil to the constant velocity propeller.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
You were blocked after your rambling and incoherent messages mixed with personal insults, not before. Not very mature of you. Reno's days are numbered not from the issues you raise, but from the rising expense in operating these aircraft and the fact that they are more valuable in stock configuration as historic investment capital. Look at the ones being rebuilt back to stock. Future racing might include new-build replicas, such as the AP-51 Palomino-a kit Mustang.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease I was blocked out of pure Censorship by you, personally. You're deliberately misrepresenting yourself. Leading up to a point isn't rambling. Difficult with minimal permitted words. You behave as if you were one of the guys but NO, you literally TROLL lurking just under the surface. You're running your little Feifedom here as would any Tyrant. I'll bet you're some PR guy working for the Reno Air Racing Authority or some such "Damage Control" watching for their $!
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner At it again Paul? Did you take your meds today? Why don't you stick to playing with your under sea models and leave nice people alone.
Zippy1one 1 week ago
@Zippy1one
Why, thanky.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease Your welcome.
Zippy1one 1 week ago
@Zippy1one Look up the rest of the things about me. I am rather well versed in a multitude of disciplines. What do you do you supposedly nice person you? Bitte recal meine Anfrage. Sie werden helfen, ja? Du weißt schon, der elektrische Antrieb der DBAG dreibegriffige formvorsignal? Danke!
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner Nehmen Sie das Medikament, und lassen Sie nette Menschen allein.
Zippy1one 1 week ago
@Zippy1one: Über Medikamente, die Sie halten sich geht. Psychopharmaka werden nicht benötigt. But you continual reference to "nice people" does indicates that you do require such as this has crossed over and into "projection." My comment that this 74 year-old fellow was at fault (if the above is true, he should have done a more thorough pre-flight inspection especially on that trim tab!) for the death of himself and the others choosing to "stand too close for their own good" remains.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
Paul, what forensic data do you possess that concludes the pilot's age was the cause here? You don't demonstrate a lot of understanding about the aerodynamics or the physics involved in this plane crash, or wake turbulence or control surface flutter, or unproven airframe design changes which could all be factors. You have only concluded that A) the sport is dangerous and B) the pilot was too old.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@paullubliner
Well, I distinctly recall blocking you because of rambling and incoherent private messages from you, mixed with personal insults. Now you've brought that mentality out in plain sight for all of us to read. Nah...I'll think I'll just leave you blocked there, friend.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease: Okay, now I am annoyed. You do owe me an apology. You aren't even paying attention. Look at the timings of those postings. I wrote directly to you as a response to your blocking me. I see I am correct with my conclusions regarding who and what you are.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@paullubliner
Paul, you don't insult somebody with private messages and then publicly demand an apology from them. Life doesn't work that way, unless your grip on reality is more fragile than I'm starting to believe.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease: 2 cont.) This crash was due to the physical limitations of the pilot. He was not seen properly seated prior to his going in. No 74 year old has the cardiovascular system needed to indefinitely contend with the G forces that must be endured with this racing.
NO ONE is addressing the obvious: This "sport" is driven by egos and greed.
Air racing used to improve the breed. This stuff is only destroying the few remaining Mustangs, the greatest fighter ever made.
paullubliner 1 week ago
It says many people have horrific images and video but I am yet to see one pic or video of a dead body or a body part, even blood? Seriously, where are THOSE pics and vids?
arthurkitchen 1 week ago
Super lucky no fire.
CaptainFantastic777 2 weeks ago
dude, are you the world's best film editor?
manualLaborer 2 weeks ago
Can't stop laughing at that top comment made by dstrong1337
motherflange 2 weeks ago
At least not as bad as the Ukrainian 2002 airshow crash.
lanunselat 2 weeks ago 4
Wow what a CRAPPY AIRFRAME that P51 Mustang where losing an elevator trim tab would cause complete and total catastrophic loss of control. OR perhaps you are all full of it? Maybe there's too much money in air racing for the truth to be told to the willing spectators? Rule one, Pilot Error. FOR EXAMPLE (there are too many to list) -anybody happen know his blood glucose level prior to take off? The flight surgeon of course not being susceptible to bribes and the like, he is after all ONLY human!
paullubliner 2 weeks ago
Think about why a servo tab exists and how it works. It is designed to relieve control force. The faster you go, the more you trim to relieve forward stick force. You are still producing more and more downward lift with the horizontal tail though.. Think about a massive amount of air flowing over the tail, which then suddenly changes shape. Maybe it was just a design that had far exceeded its limit
Adveniotu 2 weeks ago
@Adveniotu: Why don't you instead think about the intended purpose of this airframe? The Fighting P51's came back from the Continent with bits of telephone poles, wires imbedded in the wings, complete loss of control surfaces etc. yet still crossed the channel to England. The losing of a trim tab is not sufficient for total and catastrophic loss of control. TOO MANY PEOPLE want this to be overlooked, forgotten you name it ASAP for monetary reasons! HE WAS TOO OLD TO DO THIS!
paullubliner 2 weeks ago
@paullubliner
Bob Hannah is a much younger pilot and he blacked out instantly when a trim tab broke on P-51 Voodoo Chile in 1998. His plane rocketed to 9000 feet before Hannah woke up and regained control. Without the trim tab, the pilot would have to constantly fight the natural forces making the plane climb while flying at high speed. Look for the video from the backstretch and see Ghost going nearly vertical.
FiveCentsPlease 2 weeks ago
@FiveCentsPlease My point exactly! He too would not qualify to fly combat. This is stupidly dangerous stuff to do. My personal friend, Bill Speer (48) after arguing with me regarding his "Pegasus" pulling 121" Hg where as the V1650-7 was rated at 69" Hg in war emergency. I said to him "WHAT if you blow a head gasket at 450MPH at 100 feet?" He got really P.O.ed. and yelled at me. He "went in" at the next Reno race, gasket blown. I still have his Obit from Channel 51 in San Diego.
paullubliner 2 weeks ago
@paullubliner
The NTSB says that the Bill Speer accident was caused by a failed prop seal which covered his windscreen with oil, and he crashed while attempting to land without visibility. The racing Merlins do have some mods, including reinforced crank journals. Many also use a clever mod of using heavier Allison piston rods to keep the prop tips sub-sonic. According to the old-school Merlin guys, the trick is to build a strong engine and crank up the boost higher than wartime.
FiveCentsPlease 2 weeks ago
@FiveCentsPlease: Yes I know. What I said is indeed the cause. The FAA suspected the prop seal but didn't rule out head gasket failure. Regardless of which seal failed it was the insane manifold pressure that caused Bill's failure. One of the greatest purposes of mechanical engineering is predicting failure. It can only go so far as to "when." This is still a suicidal sport and face it. Just like Formula 1 auto racing, the audience for the most part is there to witness a death.
paullubliner 1 week ago
@FiveCentsPlease: I am quite certain when Bill radioed in "I can't see, oil...." I know he was thinking about our argument two weeks prior. I questioned a pop-rivet repair on the horizontal engine mount and he railed at me "Damn it Paul, the FAA signed off on it!" I also suggested he consider a Martin-Baker ejection seat. He went on to say "Do you know how much those Martin-Bakers weigh?" Believe me, I do know what was running through his mind during his last moments.
paullubliner 1 week ago
Comment removed
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@paullubliner
An ejection system has no benefit 100 feet off of the ground at 500 mph. They are heavy and expensive, so I can understand why your suggestion was not appreciated and not practical. If a pilot can climb, then he can exit the plane the old-fashioned way like Kevin Eldridge.
FiveCentsPlease 1 week ago
old people...
mouloudo 2 weeks ago
Idiot sacraficed stability and control just to gain a little speed and it cost innocent people their lives. If he had smeared himself on a runway or field then so what but the jackass crashed in the stands.
blanginit 2 weeks ago
@blanginit ; YOU ARE A DUMB-ASS.. THOSE PEOPLE WERE THERE TO SEE DEATH. MAYBE NOT THEIR OWN,BUT DEATH.JUST LIKE ON THE INTERSTATE,AND THE RUBBERNECKS. LIKE FORMULA 1,NASCAR.GROW-UP!!!
xf2gscorsair 1 week ago
I feel sorry for who ever had to piece that plane back together, if they even tried
TheLegendizCody 2 weeks ago
I think we all agree that the trim tab separating from the aircraft is a factor however you will also notice in the planes final seconds the tail wheel is extended don't know if this is a cause or effect but I do know the elevator and trim tab cables are in close proximity to the retracted tail wheel, is it possible that they became fouled in the linkage causing the wheel to drop down and also causing loss of elevator control?
proofbox 2 weeks ago
@proofbox: The Plane was pulling some many G's the it pulled the tail wheel out.
IMRROcom 1 week ago
What the fuck is this shit?? all I see is some shaky video of some out of focus plane and nothing much else !!
gjkma77 3 weeks ago
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ha ha ha baang bye bye folks, have a nice day haaaaa ha ha
baltapkarup 3 weeks ago
I'm glad for photos, and a reasonable explanation. Excellent video.
Personally , I feel like the pilots should stay further away from the grandstands. I'm 64, and not in terrible shape, physically, or mentally, but, "I'm not as good as I once was." This guy would have possibly fared better, if he could objectively analyze himself. Cheering fans make this harder to do.
"I don't know how this is gonna fly." deserved more thought.
Sorry the guy lost his life, as well as the spectators.
skipdow3 3 weeks ago
clear case of alien abduction if you ask me @0:58
sparkie66 3 weeks ago
I love watching air races, but the facts are clear. The ruling body of this sport has to take these guys in hand, if for no other reason than protecting them from themselves. You can't go chopping chunks off the wing without exhaustive testing to make sure the plane will be safe under racing conditions. Pre-race, Leeward admitted he had no real idea as to how the plane would handle during the race. This was a reckless and cavalier attitude, an attitude that must be eliminated from the sport.
Sealy57 3 weeks ago
@Sealy57 For any sort of progress, there needs to be risk. Especially in racing. It doesn't matter if its on the ground, or in the air. You do anything and everything you can in the name of speed.
RK1Hatty 3 weeks ago
@RK1Hatty I understand what you are saying with respect to the racers knowing the risks, but when spectators become victims, something has to change.
Sealy57 3 weeks ago
@Sealy57 I don't want to start a flame war here (I have a tendency to, I get pretty flared up about things, so I'm really trying hard not to come off as a jerk to anyone). But I believe that the spectators should have at least assumed that there was a good bit of risk attending these events, as with any race really. I do however believe in more pre-race testing of major structural changes.
DerPilotMann 3 weeks ago
@DerPilotMann
Statistically, auto racing has had more spectator injuries than air racing. That said, both autos and planes have kinetic energy that's going to SOMEWHERE if something goes wrong. Auto racing fans are trapped inside the "bowl" of a track where flying debris into the grandstands is a literal guarantee some day. At least air racing is out in the open, but an out-of-control plane can travel for over a mile in some cases. A spectator must assume the risks.
FiveCentsPlease 2 weeks ago
YOU ARE TO STUPIT TO HANDLE A CAMERA!!!!!!
savior3of5a7tempel 3 weeks ago
My friend's brother died in this crash.
RIP mike.
mjknlr 3 weeks ago
THATs HORRIBLE.
SVTRMODDED 4 weeks ago
At 0.57 you dont see him under the canopy which tells me he blacked out and those little movements you see was his last ditch effort to try to save who he could. He knew he was going in, he never stopped flying her. I believe loosing a trim tab was'nt the main cause, but it did'nt help., 77 years old and pulling those kind of G's, he could'nt handle them any more, but he was'nt going to stop flying.
mreid08 4 weeks ago
@wolfen1176. The design basically was created to exploit the Meredith effect which is effectively the same principle by which a ramjet worked. It wasn't very efficient however and though it greatly reduced the drag of the radiator it didn't actually produce positive thrust (i.e. drag outweighed thrust). As far as I know, this design was first deliberately incorporated on the Supermarine Spitfire (though the earlier Hurricane had a similar radiator).
KJLesnick 4 weeks ago
The reason for the crash was the seat bolts broke. The pilot was now laying flat and not even in the picture. The Vertical Stabilizer was not the cause.
WizzRacing 1 month ago
@WizzRacing The reason the seat bolts broke was excessive gravitational force. (ie:G's.) The high G's were created when the trim tab on the HORIZONTAL stabilizer broke off. The airplane zoomed upward abrubtly causing the high Gs. The high G's also caused the retractable tailwheel to break free of it's locks and slam into the "down" position.
trexx63 4 weeks ago 3
@trexx63 The trim tab is not going to cause that. It only moves 4 degrees
from center. The plane pitch up from the pilot falling back and holding the stick. The report makes that very clear.
WizzRacing 4 weeks ago
@WizzRacing You are incorrect. At 490+ miles per hour, the trim tab breaking off, will indeed, cause an abrupt and violent pull up. Do the research. I did.
trexx63 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
FiveCentsPlease 4 weeks ago
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@WizzRacing
What report? The NTSB is still completing the investigation. Video clips made from the back stretch clearly show the plane pitching up very quickly and violently. This is supported by the incident with VooDoo, which also lost a trim tab and pitched up and caused the pilot to lose consciousness temporarily until he woke up at 9000'. The trim tab helps neutralize forces on the elevator to control pitch at high speed and once gone the plane pitched up.
FiveCentsPlease 4 weeks ago
@WizzRacing I am a flight instructor. I know it seems crazy that the trim tab would have caused this but it did. I go to the Reno air races every year. The faster you fly the more the wing wants to lift. The trim tab neutralizes the forces on the elevator cables and stick so you don'f constantly fight the airplane to keep it from climbing. flying an airplane level at 100 knots without a trim tab gets tiring real fast. Now turn that into 500mph.
mspencer30 3 weeks ago
@WizzRacing Good grief. "Vertical" stabilizer? There is no such part on an airplane. Perhaps you mean, "Horizontal" stabilizer. The vertical control surface on an airplane is called the fin. That is what the rudder is attached to. (often referred to as the tail fin and rudder) The horizontal stabilizer on P-51s and other airplanes from that era have a control surface attached to it. It's called the "elevator". Galloping Ghost lost it's trim tab. It was attached to the elevator on the stabilzer.
trexx63 4 weeks ago
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@trexx63 The vertical stabilizers, vertical stabilisers, or fins, of aircraft, missiles or bombs are typically found on the aft end of the fuselage or body, and are intended to reduce aerodynamic side slip and provide direction stability. It is analogical to a skeg on boats and ships
right out of wikipedia, maybe you should have checked before you said something
SimXLive 4 weeks ago
@trexx63 It all means the same thing whether its a fin or a stabilizer. In aviation its referred to as a Horizontal and Vertical stabilizer. Attached to those is the Elevator and Rudder respectively. At least thats what I teach all my students out of the FAA manual.
mspencer30 3 weeks ago
What a load of crap people that run air shows and races need think a lot more about this kind of thing. As many of these so called tragitys happen too often all over the world at air shows and even air races.
Spectators Be Awear of the dangers of air shows.
Planes and jets are human made , have human pilots and are serviced by humans.
Humans are not perfect and can srew things up if this happends at an air show people can DIE.
This has happend too many times in resant years.
AVAMagneticlev 1 month ago
@AVAMagneticlev Then don't go, pretty simple isn't it? Everyone involved in airshows or air races knows exactly what the dangers are. And it's spelled recent not resant.
GrapeApeAH 1 month ago 15
@AVAMagneticlev People can slip on a stray banana peel at the grocery store and break their backs and die. Just because it's human made doesn't mean it's always dangerous. Shit happens, that's how life is. This was a mistake. Unfortunately the pilot was very well trained but this had to happen to him. People go to airshows to be entertained by incredible machines that we humans can be proud we have created. If you don't like airshows, don't go. Rather, spend your money on spelling lessons.
lkorn9150 3 weeks ago
I'm a mech eng and have worked in the aircraft sector and I rather have people think I'm dumb with average spelling skills.
But not dumb enough to stand under any equipment when being tested to its limits if things are going to go wrong this is when they will.
And would not trust a 70 + year old pilots heart or reaction skills.
My comments have nothing to do with if I like or dislike air shows.
AVAMagneticlev 3 weeks ago
I was 5 seats behind the crash, holy crap man, I couldn't believe it.
tyjuco 1 month ago
i saw aftermath footage of this accident... there were bodies, and body parts everywhere... it was a bloody mess...
furvert101 1 month ago
My friend's dad's friend was there and he said there were body parts in every direction.
ReflexEight 1 month ago
At least he went out doing breakneck speeds doing what he loved god rest his soul
dstrong1337 1 month ago 27
@dstrong1337 How about all the dead people on the ground.
2Phast4Rocket 1 month ago
@dstrong1337 What about the two spectators; I don't think him dying while doing something he loved is any consolation to them.
HDRCX550VE 3 weeks ago
i need to ask, but does anyone know what happend? did the plane stall or something?
tyjuco 1 month ago
kamikaze
heydek 1 month ago
I'll stick with RC flying,,, and that's scary enough.
Rob187ok 1 month ago
I can totally see the broken trim tab at 1:00.
luiscosta17 1 month ago
finding his body is harder than finding waldo..
Lacross523 1 month ago
Terribile!!
waltergiordani 1 month ago
LIKE THAT WASN'T GOING TO EVENTUALLY HAPPEN
leftgibson 1 month ago
what camera did he use?? ohhh a potato
GreenBikeWatch 1 month ago
RIP too the pilot :(
SillyPops7 1 month ago
Why didn't the pilot eject!?!?
BulletFlex 1 month ago
@BulletFlex
more than likely he was passed out. Also no time. These old prop planes don't have ejection seats. You must open the canopy and climb out.
chetopuffs 1 month ago
@BulletFlex id imagine spur of the moment type shittt
ytp4life1 1 month ago
your description was wrong. 12 died.
DiamondPilotDan 1 month ago
Looks like Michael Bay made this video...
NachoAzurdia 1 month ago
As a seasoned stunt pilot myself I can assure you that, at that low altitude, performing strafing type maneuvers as if simultaneously dodging flak or buildings requires that your machine be intact. There is no room for error at that low altitude performing a roll or a loop of any kind. Certainly not with ten feet removed from the wingspan. Obama can be seen in the background with his laughing kids and they are shooting at the plane several times with what looks like AK47 paintball guns.
1emanres 1 month ago
@1emanres yes and I see also mr spok and com. kirk ok enterprise.......:)
wwmb43 1 month ago
Notice that none of the footage of this indecent actually shows the plane hitting the ground. The plane was in the air, and then there was an explosion. Where was the fuel? Planes carry fuel and there was no fire. There is also a lack of plane parts. This is because the plane didn't actually crash. It was a missile. Before you call me stupid, where is the evidence that says Bush took no part in this??
blanknot 1 month ago
@blanknot Absolutely ridiculous and stupid what you are writing here. You must be ill minded. Shame on you.
harleyfanREF 1 month ago
@harleyfanREF
is this you first trolling?
chetopuffs 1 month ago
@blanknot you cant be that stupid. ??
VampeD4 1 month ago
@blanknot no it,s a ufo attack
it's a crash!!!!!!!
wwmb43 1 month ago
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i dont believe that was a p-51. correct me if im wrong.
TXs14 1 month ago
@TXs14 it,s an extreme modification of mustang p51d design
for racing actually its "was" 95 %new build
but based on p51 basic design
wwmb43 1 month ago
i dont believe that was a p-51. correct me if im wrong.
TXs14 1 month ago
1 broken little trim tab caused that big beautiful bird to crash!!!! What a crying shame..
bliglum 1 month ago
1:52 tennis balls in the exhausts
nissanferrari1 1 month ago
WHY would trim tab break off? Answer: metal fatigue. Over stressing is being ignored.
paullubliner 1 month ago
I'd like to know what other P51 pilots would honestly not protectively say about this. Trim tabs could be used to get a P38 out of compressibility but this is a case of a pilot's stroke, etc. I really doubt a trim tab loss would cause the entire plane to go out of control to this degree. I lost a good friend, Bill Speer many years ago at Reno in his P51. I was going to start one myself with his help. He blew a head gasket and went in. I warned him that he might: 121" Hg. Boy did he yell at me!
paullubliner 1 month ago
@paullubliner
isn't a P38 a can opener?
chetopuffs 1 month ago
The cause was indeed a failed trim tab and its mechanism. The mechanism is a single push/pull rod; when the trim tab broke away, the pushrod could've easily been forced into the elevator's slot by aerodynamic forces and jammed the elevator, wedging the elevator into an upright deflection, preventing it from returning to neutral position. The pilot did haul back on the stick before the turn to preserve altitude during the turn and instead encountered this issue. The rest is academic.
SenorSpode 1 month ago
@SenorSpode: What about the throttle? If not physically incapacitated, I'd presume one would attempt a power reduction at speed. Why the reluctance to realize this is more likely the shock of what was happening causing the poor old guy to have a heart attack or a stroke.
paullubliner 1 month ago
Ужасно. Учитывая то, что быстрый самолет... Шансов нет (
Technotronic27 1 month ago
@Technotronic27 :Опасность является частью этого вида спорта
Bmants 1 month ago
1. See the dislikes bar
2. Click Dislike
3. Leave
WinsonSwat27 1 month ago
Let me guess FAA report official report! pilots is old as fuck !
aczblaze 1 month ago
@aczblaze Sad but true. Ever see a 74 year old push a cart at Wal Mart? @ 425 MPH!
kffive 1 month ago
Man I remember when this happened. My dad wanted to go to the Reno Air Races that year, as he does every year, and wanted me to go with him. He wanted to get one of those VIP seats. The only thing was that his work had him scheduled to work those days so he could not go. Both of us could have been in that section when it happened. Just goes to show that things happen for a reason.
NameWhatsHis 1 month ago
74-year old fossil is allowed to ride a plane with audience? That guy should not let go drive go cart
Zoomtronic1 1 month ago
@Zoomtronic1 It was mechanical failure. The pilot could have been 25 and it wouldn't have mattered.
drenajunkie 1 month ago
@Zoomtronic1
A much younger pilot flying another racing Mustang in 1998 blacked out instantly after loosing a trim tab and experiencing deceleration g-forces. He was lucky because the plane pitched up and didn't turn over, and he was able to regain control. So your point on age is not relevant for this accident.
FiveCentsPlease 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
o youtube racist dickheads - can I be an asshole lile all the typical white youtuber racists and say "made in the USA"
neelantra 1 month ago
@neelantra In reply to your previous comment, that was removed. If you want too however I don't think the other YouTubers like that to much as your original comment was removed and the other was flagged as spam. Stupid spammer...
Revoman859 1 month ago
its a shame
anthony2002able 1 month ago
Condolence sir.. God Bless you
EldeMarjo 1 month ago
i was actually supposed to be working there that day for civil air patrol
warhero98754 1 month ago
Current day the Reno crash was caused by the one tab failing. If you google it you see evidence in pictures. You can see that the tab is missing in one picture. You will notice that the rear landing wheel is down, that is hydraulically powered meaning it would take 10g's to break. The pilot is no where to been meaning he is bent over. Thumbs up so people can see this.
Revoman859 1 month ago 25
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neelantra 1 month ago
@Revoman859 - Actually the current theory is that the seat broke, Jimmy reached for something grab inadvertently lowering the tail gear, lost control of the airplane, trim tab breaks due to load and the rest is just a very sad story.
Evidence supporting that theory are very clear video showing plane going out of control with its tail gear lowered but the trim tab still clearly intact and the fact that he is not visible strapped into the seat, which he should be even if he passed out.
JDGillis 1 month ago
@JDGillis
That is interesting. Hadn't heard this theory. Either theory works though... Leave both tabs on and don't unbuckle to reach for something during a race. He crashed, people died. As long it doesn't happen again.
Revoman859 1 month ago
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@JDGillis
That is interesting. Hadn't heard this theory. Either theory works though... Leave both tabs on and don't unbuckle to reach for something during a race. He crashed, people died. As long it doesn't happen again.
Revoman859 1 month ago
@JDGillis
Reaching while pushing hard on the stick in a turn? If any cockpit video was recovered or recorded from live feed, then that will be easy to answer. The two main theories is that the trim tab failed suddenly or from flutter, or that he flew into dirty air causing the loss of control and trim failure. Either way, video from the backstretch shows the plane suddenly pulling nearly vertical at high speed, which could have broken the tail wheel and seat from G-loading.
FiveCentsPlease 1 month ago
So if anyone is interested the reason he crashed was because the P-51 has two trim tabs on the elevators to help it fly level. They are BOTH ADJUSTABLE, and extremely important. The pilot fixed one of them level and just had ONE adjustable to keep the plane flyable. He was warned. Back in the 60's a P-51's tabs broke during a race causing the plane to go in to a 10g climb. The pilot blacked out and when he came to his face was on the floor. He was able to throttle down and limp the plane back.
Revoman859 1 month ago
So I guess he didn't have time to eject? Or did that plane not have that possibility or something, just curious...
BuddyWillis 1 month ago
@BuddyWillis wow...you are fuckin stupid
DisableThis1Bitch 1 month ago
@BuddyWillis WWII planes usually have the possibility to be climbed out... but there's no ejection-seat or something... on the other hand, they fly to low and fast to make faults...
Cult1022 1 month ago
@BuddyWillis Yeah, no ejection seats in WWII fighters. If you had enough altitude and the plane wasn't out of control, you would jettison the canopy and jump. It was very dangerous, and you could hit the tail and be killed. At low level, there wouldn't even be time for your chute to open. Still better than WWI, when they didn't even have chutes! Military jets started using seats in the 50's, but they were dangerous and killed lots of pilots anyway.
justforever96 1 month ago
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paullubliner 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@justforever96: They can be fitted but the weight penalty of such a thing makes you uncompetitive. I brought that up and other "items" to my friend before he went in in his P51 many years ago. He just didn't want to hear what I had to say, ie: 121" of Hg when a V1650-7 was rated