Bryan Chapell - Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

[CouleurFilms]

@max2right What are you basing your idea of "immoral" upon? Because if God doesn't exist, and the Bible is fictional, where did your idea of what is moral and what isn't come from? If this is the case, then my morals could be just as justified as your morals, even if mine seemed entirely immoral to you.

[max2right]

The idea that one can gain a second life by human sacrifice is immoral, barbaric and reprehensible. The bible is so filled with killing, cruel and torturous executions and unrelenting vindictiveness that it should be x rated. Christianity is nothing more than a death cult glorifying the destruction of the planet as a means to visit an imaginary god in an imaginary paradise. That’s as evil and downright insane as it gets.

[sourcream3401]

@max2right HAHA!! Well you're right that it's filled with killing, and torturous executions and so forth but the sole purpose for Christians is to die to OURSELVES and be made alive in Christ DAILY. Sin is evil my friend and God and Heaven are absolutely real. WE are the ones who are filled with cruel and horrible acts. NOT GOD. This world is going to pass away but God's kingdom is forever. There's alot we don't know but we will if you believe in God and his son Jesus.

[max2right]

@max2right Human and animal sacrifice is immoral thus your religion is immoral. What a prick that god is. We are all lucky such a blood thirsty megalomaniac is fictional. 

[weareabreedofdirt]

I loved how you said, "It's necessary, but it's not going to make you a Christian."

[Full4God]

Water baptism has no power to save me eternally or make me right before God. Yet, Christ commanded belief AND baptism with a promise of salvation. (Mark 16:16)  To obey Christ's command to be baptized does not treat His blood as unholy or insufficient. In fact, just the opposite is true. We must trust His blood to wash away our sins, and we demonstrate that trust by obeying our Lord. It is not enough to simply believe Jesus is the Son of God (James 2:19)--we must obey Him too! (John 3:36)

[miket1m]

@7thThunder You're not booking some bus ticket to Atlantic City, we're talking about you eternal salvation. You better be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11-12) and have a healthy skepticism. Just don't take someones word for it. Look at what God says not what some man says. If you reach the word you better be able to back up everything you say in black an white. The Word of God is the ultimate authority not your local preacher.

[miket1m]

@7thThunder

Paul - Acts 22:16 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

The jailer - Acts 16:33 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Should we just scratch out Mark 16:16?

[miket1m]

@7thThunder

Paul Acts 22:16 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

[miket1m]

@7thThunder I answered your question

Look at Matthew 28:18-20 - 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

[miket1m]

@7thThunder

The thief on the cross Luke 23:39-43

Mark 2:10: Jesus had authority during His earthly ministry to forgive sins on command.

Romans 6:3-4: Baptism is a participation in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. The penitent thief could not have been baptized because Jesus had not yet died.

Hebrews 9:17 The new covenant (New Testament) was not yet in force, as Jesus had not yet died under the old covenant.

[miket1m]

@7thThunder Sorry, give me the question again. I missed it

[miket1m]

These scriptures show the urgency of baptism

Acts 16:33: The jailer and his family were baptized in the middle of the night!

Acts 22:16: "What are you waiting for?"

Acts 8:38: "Stop the Chariot!"

So why do so many denominations today leave baptism to a convenient time (once a month, annually at Easter, etc.) They do this because baptism is not seen as essential to salvation

[miket1m]

@7thThunder Your missing the point, Let me show you an illustration:

C (Christian): "Do you think you have to repent to be saved"?

NC (non Christian) "Of course you do. What makes you say that?"

C: "Well, John 3:16 doesn't say anything about repentance."

NC: "Yes but there are lots of other passages that make it perfectly clear that you have to repent to be saved."

C: "My point exactly!"

[miket1m]

@7thThunder Steps To Salvation

1. Hearing (Matthew 13:15, Rev 2:7) = knowledge

2. Faith (John 3:16, 8:30-31) = Heart

3. Repentance (Matt 3:8, Acts 26:20) = Life

4. Baptism (Acts 2:38, Gal 3:26-27) = Relationship with God

5. Perseverance (Heb 3:14) = Eternal Destiny

[miket1m]

@7thThunder

Faith, We are saved by faith, yes. But when does that faith manifest itself in us, before or after we obey God? James 2:24 refutes your doctrine of "faith alone" salvation. Its also refuted by John 8:30-32, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 1:5, and Romans 16:26

John 3:16 shows faith as the basis of our entire response to the gospel. This must not be taken out of context. Consider all relevant passages.

[ThePhnxman1]

"BORN AGAIN:

born = geano (be begotten, sired, engendered.

born = geano (to come outof the womb.

again=from above

I Pet. 1:23: "Being born again (begotten from above), not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever."

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

James 2:24 Faith without works is dead

1 Peter 3:21 This baptism which now saves you also

Mark 16:16 Believe + Baptism = Salvation

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

[miket1m]

1/2

@7thThunder

The Romans didn't need to be told how to be saved. They were already saved. Romans 6 specifies the time of their rebirth in baptism.

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. In context (Romans 10) "everyone" means Jews and Gentiles alike.

Calling on the name of the Lord is done in baptism (Acts 22:16) The passage doesn't mention baptism, but that doesn't mean that Paul would not have seen baptism in connection with calling on the Lord name.

[miket1m]

2/2

@7thThunder

Pauls argument is that faith and confession, which makes baptism powerful, are doable by anyone, whether or not hi is circumcised. We are not saved by works under the new covenant nor were the people under the old.

Paul discouraged Judaizing tendencies. Examine Romans 10 in context! This wasn't written to non Christians telling them how to be saved, but to Jewish and Gentile Christians urging them to accept one another in Christ.

[miket1m]

In Romans 6:3-4 it says that we die to our sin and are buried with Christ through baptism and as Christ was resurrected we too come up out of the water to live a new life (born again)

How can you believe and be "born again" then die in baptism and come up out of the water "born again" again? That doesn't make sense. Mark 16:16 says we need to believe and be baptized. It is a command from Jesus. Faith without works is dead.

[miket1m]

@7thThunder What verse is that and who was it written to? People who were already baptized maybe? It was written to the Romans. who were already converted. Your getting close look harder

[BlackEyeBeatings]

@7thThunder

1 peter 3:21

acts 22:16

Confession is not enough Matthew 7:21-23

Acts 2:38

Romans 6

[lmadigan1971]

nice

[tljohn24]

AAAAAAAYYYYYYYYMEN! well explained. It is a command from God so it is necessary. Because faith in a God you don't see without works is dead. But the baptism doesn't mean anything if you break the pledge of having a good conscience towards God. Sure every Christian sins, we all do. But as long as we repent acccording to 1 john 1:9 we are ok with God.

[spiderlance12003]

believer disciple is it the same?A disciple has to believe and follow.Thats why baptism is necessary.baptism of his spirit comes after you follow him in faith and baptism(1 special case in scrip does not connatate norm).Saying i will follow you in faith in him saves you. the confession of Jesus as savior does not save the confession of Jesus as Lord does!!(rom 10:9)Baptism is a confession of Christ lordship making you a disciple.then he will empower you with the spirit to do his work.God bless

[Terry8150]

@spiderlance12003 The one baptism Paul writes about is for the one body. When did this happen?

[7269018]

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now SAVE us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[markpianoman]

No, it's not necessary AND should not be practiced. Let your doctrine be updated by the revelation the ascended Christ gave to the Apostle Paul. In Eph 4: 4,5 Paul says there is one baptism. In Rom. 6 Paul makes it clear that the one baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which occurs the moment one accepts Christ. If you believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit AND water baptism THEN you have two baptisms!! You need to keep the UNITY by following Eph 4.

[therexCo]

Chapell makes it clear that he's not talking about water baptism... He's talking about the baptism of the holy spirit, which is obviously necessary.

[miket1m]

@therexCo

Read Mark 16:16. Read the conversions in Acts

The word baptism comes from the Greek baptizo which means immersion.

1 Peter 3:21 No where is there a record of anyone just saying a prayer and being saved.

[therexCo]

@miket1m Reread 1 Peter 3:21. I think that verse is quite clear that it is the conscience's change, its pledge towards God that makes a believer. Saying that the act of being baptized in water is required for salvation is implying works based righteousness or salvation, which is clearly against biblical teaching.

I won't deny the importance of baptism though, it is a desire of God and therefore we are disobeying him as long as we put it off, and that is sin.

[miket1m]

@therexCo We are saved by our faith but when does that faith manifest itself, before or after we obey God? Look at Pauls conversion. He believed (Acts 22:10) confessed Jesus as Lord (9:11), for three days (9:9, obeyed (22:10-11) and repented, and still was not a saved man. "Get up!" He was asked to do something. The blessing depends on Action. Faith without works is dead-James 2:24

Look at the Ethiopian eunuch, the Phillipian jailer, look at the conversions in the Book of Acts

[miket1m]

@therexCo

Hebrew 11:30 the walls of Jericho fell "by faith" but the writer shows us that action was involved. This was a matter of obedience. So it is with baptism.

Romans 6:3-4 The new life begins in baptism (vs4) To say that the new life begins before baptism (that we are born again first) is to say that the new creation is put to death, since baptism is a death as well as a birth.

How can you be born again, die in baptism then be "born again" again?

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- We ARE "born again" first. We cannot choose the kingdom of God unless we "see" (John 3:3). However, then we must be "...born of the water and of the Spirit..." to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God! (John 3:5)

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- We ARE "born again" first. We cannot choose the kingdom of God unless we "see" (John 3:3). However, then we must be "...born of the water and of the Spirit..." to ENTER INTO the kingdom of God! (John 3:5)

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1 Then tell me according to Romans 6:3~4, how can we be born again, then die in baptism as baptism is a death as well as a birth, then come up out of the water, "born again" again? That would mean we were putting the "born again" self to death. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

Read Mark 16:16; Acts 2:36~40. Paul believed, he prayed and fasted for 9 days. Was he saved?

"And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name." Acts 22:16

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Saul of Tarsus was called to be an apostle, but he first needed to be saved. Ananias preached to him and commanded him to "Get up and be baptized, and WASH AWAY your sins...".

Cornelius was also a good man but also need to be saved, in spite of his good works.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Even nature shows us that a child is first 'born' (begotten) in the mother's womb; then a child is 'born' (comes out of the womb) about 9 months after conception.

The same Hebrew word (gennao = born) is used for both conception AND to give birth. So we are "begotten" (born) by the Word, and then we are birthed (born into) the kingdom of God.

[miket1m]

@therexCo

Baptism is a works, yes. It is something that you do (so is believing, repenting, praying,..) but not in the sense of a work by which you obligate God to save you, like it says in Romans 4:4.

Romans 6 is about the remission of sin through baptism. It is a participation in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

[ThePhnxman1]

@therexCo -- Jesus said: "He that believes AND is baptized...". Nowhere does the Ministry put baptism before faith: but it necessarily follows faith, as obedience. Did Abraham believed God? Of course! And what is the initial evidence of his faith? He went out from his country, his kindred, and his father's house: he obeyed God's Voice.

[miket1m]

@therexCo I am not talking about "Regeneration Baptism" that is a false doctrine

[miket1m]

@therexCo Take a piece of paper and draw two line in the center to make 3 columns. At the top put baby baptism, essential baptism and spirit baptism. Now look at the conversions in the book of Acts and put each conversion in the appropriate column. You will see they all fall into the essential baptism column.

Be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11. Have a healthy skepticism. Just don't take someones word for it. Look at all scriptures. He is wrong about this.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Take a piece of paper and write down ALL the scriptures on baptism: then tell us which one the apostles and/or prophets have invalidated.

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

Its very simple. If you look at Mark 16:16 it says, Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Whats the argument exactly. Is baptism essential for salvation? Look at that verse, what do you think?

Look at 1 Peter 3:21 It says, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

This water which symbolizes baptism not visa versa. Nowhere in the NT is baptism called symbolic.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- I agree with the apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- You have no argument with me on Mk. 126:16, Brother. But those who believe in the trinity are confused about it.

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1 Thats Mark 16:16 The Holy Trinity, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All One. Take an egg. The Yoke, the white and the shell. All one. Take time, the past, the future and the present. All one, "time" Although the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible, it is in there. Look at John 1:14 and compare it with John 1:1, we see that Christ is God, The Holy Spirit is in there too and I don't have enough room to explain it but I can. It is in the Bible

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m --My typo (I make alot of them).

"In the beginning was the WORD (not the son)..." In Gen. 1:1, God SPOKE; and the words God spoke "...created the heavens and the earth...". The expression came FROM God, and within God: and it was WITH God "...from the beginning..." of creation. Before the beginning there was no creation and no time; therefore, the "son" could not have been eternal.

The trinity doctrine is a catholic doctrine.

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

John 1:14 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (That was Jesus Christ)

John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (and the Word was God, Jesus)

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Jesus is the NAME of the son of God "...of the seed of David, according to the flesh...". God was IN CHRIST, "...reconciling the world unto himself."

"In the beginning of creation, God spoke and created the heavens and the earth." They were created with the "...word of his power...".

God commanded the angel to SPEAK to Mary, and the word from God was clothed in humanity, when it was begotten in her. The flesh is NOT God.

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1 Jesus is Lord. Jesus is God. John 5:18, John 8:24, John 8:58 - Exodus 3:14, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Col.2:9, Phil. 2:5-8, Hebrews 1:8,

If Jesus were not God, then why did Thomas call Him God in John 20:28

Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8

How was it possible for Jesus to know all things John 21:17?

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Good questions. Jn. 5:18- "equal to God", in obedience; 8:24- we must believe that Jesus is [the savior]"; 10:30-33- the Father testifies of Jesus, as Jesus testifies of the Father; 20:28- Thomas recognizes that God was IN Christ; Ex. 3:14- the Father was revealing himself; the attributes of God are in Jesus; we are called to be as Jesus; The God in Christ.

God disrobes of his glory to be in image of son; the son will disrobe of humanity to be God.

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1 I'm confused, are you saying that Jesus is not God? If so what kind of a Christian are you?

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Thta's an honest question.

O,K, Here's my question: is Jesus Christ God, or was God IN Christ "...reconciling the world unto himself"????? Are we saying that God IN Christ is what made Jesus God; or that the human body is God? Were miracles performed the son; or did the Father confirm the son's preaching and perform the "works"?//

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"And the Word was God" - The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us - Jesus=God, Jesus was God in the flesh.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m --

Correct: the word which God spoke "...in the beginning..." was dressed upon in humanity: "Wherefore when he comes into the world, he says , 'Sacrifice and offering you would not, but a body have you prepared me' ." That is why the appostle wrote that "...God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto himself."

Do the scriptures declare that in Jesus "...was the fulness of the Godhead bodily..."? So, in the body of Jesus, the son of God, dwelt ALL the attributes of God!

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Part One

There's no problem with your equation!

Whenever the Lord speaks, we must discern whether it is God speaking in him: or whether he is speaking FOR God (as a prophet).

When men came to arrest Jesus, he asked for whom were they looking. The said they were looking for Jesus. When he replied the FIRST time, they fell backwards; but when he replied the SECOND time, nothing happened and they were able to arrest Jesus!

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- If man goes looking for God, they will not find him: for he is hidden behind a veil of flesh. Men look upon the flesh of the son, and "...he has no form or comeliness that we should desire him...despised, rejected of men...".

But if men will seek the Lamb of God, they could most certainly find the Father, and  "...whomsoever the son will reveal."

Have you not found the Father in Jesus?

[miket1m]

@ThePhnxman1

I heard the message (Matt13:15, Rev.2:7) and I gained the knowledge. I gained faith (John 3:16, 8:30-31) and my heart was affected. I repented (Matt 3:8, Acts 26:20) and my life changed as a result. I was then baptized (Acts 2:38, Gal 3:26-27) As a result I have a relationship with God and I persevere (Heb 3:14) and I know that I will have Eternal Life.

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- If you are one of those who "...believes and is baptized...", then salvation quite naturally follows!

[ThePhnxman1]

@miket1m -- Yes, the "...word BECAME flesh...".

Hb. 10:19-20...describes how that the "...one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus..." was a VEIL so that we might behold God's glory without dying! The body of that mediator is whom we know as "...the Lamb of God..."! And God (as the WORD) was in Christ, "...reconciling the world...".

[miket1m]

@therexCo We recieve the Holy Spirit when we are baptized under water Acts 2:38. Study the Bible and read all relevant passages. You cannot explain away certain baptism passages. Keep searching

[masala505]

Absolute stupidity!

[shufflesbl]

why

[masala505]

Because he's talking about the correctness of superstitious rituals. As with an onion, peel away the leaves and there's nothing in the middle. If he was talking about baptism to become a druid you'd think he was mad. So where's the difference with christianity - Jewish, first century, supersttious nonsense. Don't waste your life on castles made of sand.