Does Poverty Rise as Biodiversity Falls? - Pavan Sukhdev

[blo0magic]

How can you imagine how large the Earth is? The answer is you can't imagine the size unless you go out there in space and see it.. The biggest thing you ever saw was probably a large mountain. Same goes for the whole environment issue.. People are never gonna get the idea unless they are shown an ultimate figure that will convince them..

[newfish09]

so people are messing the earth up.. why?

[SgtThom]

@newfish09

Overpopulation, need for power, why of life for 1st world countries consume more and more energy. This is nothing surprising seeing how the Human race has been going in the last 200 years or so.

[blackiron60]

In a deeply unequal society, what is called "progress" is often simply a case of the rich doing what is good for the rich while claiming that it is somehow good for everyone - when in fact it is more likely to destroy the livelihoods of millions.

[Cl1mateAware]

We need a new belief system combining humanism and environmental concern. William Tarkovsky’s eco-philosophy is precisely this. Find him on youtube and at thebookofnewcreation[dot]co[do­t]uk.

[Redfingers]

An economist with a Macintosh. What the fuck?

[Timschannel003]

its odd that this even needs to be said. I thought this sort of thing was common since and widely believed by everyone.

[Phelan666]

Of course the lack of resources causes a decline in populations/health. Darwin/Wallace described this over 200 years ago. It's nothing new.

Yes, human beings are affected by the same forces that the rest of the natural world is. Sorry if I burst anyone's bible bubble.

[MarmaladeINFP]

@Phelan666 Sadly, this obvious fact has been intentionally ignored and dismissed by most people, including those who should know better. Propaganda, reality tunnels, and self-deception are very powerful forces. We don't see what we don't want to see, even when a moment of common sense would allow us to see clearly the facts of reality.

[airbreather123]

Unfortunately the argument falls flat when you compare the average standard of living now in those countries, especially brazil. To what it was prior to industrial development. Of course it would be nice to all live in forests and have personal farms. But people in the west and those countries as well want a high standard of living, thereby industrializing their land.

[goog2k]

Our earths ecology is crashing. Greenhouse gases have spiked 39% above normal and are going up 2ppm/year. CO2 will be 450ppm in 2035 and oceans will be acidified to the point of wiping out some planktons and corals at the base of ocean food chains.

Were all over consuming, creating tremendous waste and destroying the planet. Each American consumes 20 times as much energy as a third world peasant. That means ONE American child has the ecological impact of 20 Third World children.

[Th3Wab3]

the Eurocentric business model is absolutely cancerous to the world and as a result human population... simply put it is myopic and destructive with little consideration..

[MarmaladeINFP]

The video presented is so obvious to me, but for some people it doesn't make sense. Why have so many people assumed that destroying the environment would have no negative influence? Some dire predictions have yet to come true, but overall the trend is proving true most of the predictions made by environmentalists. It's become accepted even by the right that climate change is happening & science now even supports humans are contributing. Oil spills, species extinction, etc. It's all happening.

[airbreather123]

@MarmaladeINFP there was perfect environment 200 years ago, with no man made foot print. Desease and starvation was common, life expectancy was 25 years. There is a price to pay for a higher standard of living, and as a collective society we determined that ecological and environmental damage is a fair price to pay for a high standard of living and technological advance.

[MarmaladeINFP]

@airbreather123 You're data is correct but misleading. A distinction needs to be made between farming societies and hunter-gatherer societies. Disease and starvation only became common with agriculture, but was rare among hunter-gatherers. It's true that hunter-gatherers had high infant and childhood mortality rates, once an indigenous person reached adulthood they lived about as long as we do today. Also, many diseases came with industrialization: cancer, obesity, diabietes, heart disease, etc.

[MarmaladeINFP]

@airbreather123 I wrote some commentary in response to this video at the following link:

benjamindavidsteele.wordpress. com/2010/09/07/does-poverty-ri­se-as-biodiversity-falls-pavan­-sukhdev/

I should point out that I'm not arguing that everything is bad about the modern world. My fundamental point isn't against modernity and industrialization per se, but I think society could've advanced just fine without having to destroy the environment and without the lifestyles of traditional cultures.

[airbreather123]

@MarmaladeINFP I don't want to go back to living as indigenous people. There is no way industrialization can occur without a painful period of transition. As old ways of doing things become obsolete people become unemployed and need to adapt to the new world, those that failed to do so get left behind. Environment is simply a utility we enjoy, and I don't want a central planner deciding how much environment protection there needs to at the cost of my standard of living.

[HeywoodJablowem]

@airbreather123 until our environment is destroyed, of course. then your standing of living won't mean much :)

[MarmaladeINFP]

@airbreather123 I don't want to go back to living as indigenous people, but indigenous people should have the right to live as they want. Industrialization has been built on genocide & oppression. As I write this, India's economic development is causing genocide of the indigenous. It's the same story being repeated & it's usually supported by Western corporations. If our progress as a society is based on killing people & destroying the world, maybe we should rethink our method of 'progress'.

[MarmaladeINFP]

@airbreather123 Living in a sustainable way without destroying one's environment isn't obsolete. It's living in an unsustainable way by destroying everything that gets in the way that's obsolete. Imperialism & genocide is the old way of doing things. We need to learn to not act so primitively. The indigenous haven't failed at anything. The problem isn't that they're left behind but that we won't leave them alone. We destroy the environment they & we rely upon, then we either kill or oppress them

[MarmaladeINFP]

@airbreather123 The environment isn't just a utility we enjoy. It's the very basis of all life. Without a healthy environment, we'd all be dead. Scientists already admit we've irreversibly altered the environment. In North America, for example, bats and bees are dying. These are some of the most basic species that are necessary for a healthy ecosystem. If bees die out, most of our agriculture will collapse. Pollution is causing global warming & raising of oceans that will flood coastal cities.

[truvelocity]

Of course.  Hoover dam, no salmon for the natives. They lived off of nature for free and progress takes it away from them.