I used to be a JW. I left after 2 years as I decided it was not a God I knew. My God was love and peace, and I could not not relate to a God of 'excessive discipline'. This talk of wrath etc was confusing to me. However 10 years later, I get it. I committed sinful behaviour that could now by life threatening. I completely understand the need for 'house rules'. Though you don't get the reason for rules, don't rebel. A child don't get why his dad removes the matches it's playin with either
Having been associated with the WBTS and recently DA'd myself I have watched several videos on YouTube. Many have been former member who came to the same conclusion I did. The GB is not God's channel of communication. Thier own literature exposes them. However, I have noted that many people use sarcasm in their manner to "help" others who have questions or have left. I respect you for just "informing" and leaving out negative emotions or thoughts. Let the truth speak for itself. Amen Brother!
1 John 2:16-we don't want to gain riches and desire money. Jesus said keep your eye simple-Luke 11:34. We should be simple, and satisfied with sustenance and covering-1 Timothy 6:8-10. Why waste TIME, slaving away for riches, where moth and rust consume-Matthew 6:19-21. Slave for God, inherit everlasting life! Matthew 5:5. Romans 6:16-with righteousness in view. Matthew 19:21. Matthew 6:24-you cannot slave for God and for riches. Jesus wants disciples-Matthew 4:17,24:14, 28:19,20. Acts 20:20.
@eternityandforever Ironically, if you do go to college, you get a better position at Bethel. Again with the hypocrisy. The WTS is constantly saying one thing, but doing another.
Granted most who go to college wake up to what the WTS doesn't want you to find out, but I do find it curious that they reward you for not listening to them.
Jesus taught only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God! We keep separate from the world as Jesus taught. READ John 17:16. James 4:4. 1 John 5:19. TRUTH!
The more you want the truth, the more you study the bible, then you know JW's is true! Jesus said there is only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ..."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God!
@seamonkey1070 I'm glad to see that they are ignoring the un biblical advice of the Elders and the organization. Kudos to them for independently thinking.
Why does the WT control the way its reps dress? Why must the reps have that 'clean neat look? Well you accept literature from some one who didn't look clean and respectable? Would you listen to a 'scruff' talking about God and offering you literature?
This is different than the actions of other Christians How? We have the kettle calling the pot black here. Multiple Christian cults saying they are right, when none of the really know including the JW.
Jehovah's name is mentioned 7000 times in the Old Testament. It amazes me how disrespectful people are and it is no wonder that Judgment is being called. I used to think JW's were a pain years ago, but after I got sick and Jehovah helped me i understand the importance of those who carry his name.
It easy for someone to criticize what they do not understand but how are you being helpful and positive by doing so and do you think you will gain from being a negative person.
That is one expensive car and anybody with any respect including them should stay off it. They must not appreciate how hard you worked to own a porsche.
I'm an ex-witness and what you have to know is that higher education is a matter of personal choice. They try to push kids not to go to college but there are many who are smart and just go ahead and go to college.There is no scripture that says it's a sin so they can't say you have sinned.I think a lot of kids need to be informed that this is wrong.They should go to college and then after that if they want to preach full-time they can do so.
Im from the USA..and this is definitely true..its is definitely pushed not to go to college..in fact you can find here in Youtube a brother in a district convention speaking exactly about this...of course there is no sin, but has it been taught..YES...we may be living in the last days, but dont assume that you stop living - getting educated...making a better situation for yourself..
@Sarai217 Yes I am a JW and went to college. has to be done responsibly. I'm in medical field. However, now a days w/ the economy only 1 out of 3 graduates will get the job they want. 33%. + being exposed to sex and drugs. I tell my kids go ahead get educated, but get a education where what you do for a living you are happy and can serve Jehovah. I have never met anyone who is wealthy that is truly happy, in fact they are misrable, and worried about money,.
@shihtzufizzers Well, then you've never met or heard of Dave Ramsey, a wonderful Christian man who teaches biblical finance, and the importance of remembering that every good and perfact gift comes from the Father. God gives us blessings on Earth in order to steward them wisely, by listening to the Spirit's urgings. By the way, unless one lives in solatary confinement, one will encounter sex, drugs, etc. It's called the real world. Welcome.
@wijcik yes one will encounter those things. but why put yourself into constant temptation? The real world is ppl don;t listen to Gods laws at all. fornication is common practice. Drugs is accepted in many cultures. yes this is living in the real world, but I choose not to partake in this. I know it is going around, I see it everyday, doesn't mean I want to join in. I don't need the name of some man stating these things, for God states them in his word the bible. Yes every gift is from God
Dan 12:9 And he went on to say: Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.
Part 4 - Many choose to attend a college near home, so that they can still live with their parents and avoid possible pitfalls from living in a university dorm. Some have even become surgeons - specializing in bloodless surgical techniques. Many have become educators, teaching at a school from 9-3 PM. That gives them more time to pursue spiritual interests. So while the Watchtower does not encourage higher education, it certainly does not condemn it.
Every meeting I went to they always discouraged people from going to college. But yet, look at the elders, normally they all make good money, they been to college, and they have very nice homes. So, if they did all that why are they discouraging others for doing the same? Is it they do not want others at the meetings to have good things like they have and make good money?
Happily most repent and come back to the congregation. However, many Christian youths that have decided to pursue a higher education have remained faithful in the truth. Many choose to attend a college near home, so that they can still live with their parents and avoid possible pitfalls from living in a university dorm.
Part 2 True, the publications warn of possible dangers--drugs, non-marital sex, etc, all of which is more common in universities, even in the so-called "Christian" schools managed by Evangelicals. The pressure to fall into unchristian conduct appears to be greater in college than in high school, especially since many students study away from home. And some Witness youth who have attended college have fallen.
Actually, Jehovah's witnesses believe that pursuing God's kingdom should be the priortity in ones life. Following christ is the most important to them. College has proven to be dangerous morally for many youths. Especially Christian youths. Those temptations that you mentioned there all exist in the College enviroment. So to avoid these temptations, Jehovah's Witness simply ENCOURAGE their youths to continue seeking God's kingdom first instead of pursuing wordly interest that could....
Put their spirituality in Jeopardy. Afterall, higher education was available during Jesus and his disciples era within the Roman empire. But instead, they chose a simple life and pursued kingdom interest. Jehovah's Witnesses follow closely those same footsteps of Christ and the early Christians. They also encourage taking up a skill and trade via trade school so that they can sustain themselves. They've done pretty well with this and is currently the worlds fastest growing christian faith.
Part 1: While Jehovah's Christian Witnesses do not strongly encourage the pursuit of a university education, it is not forbidden. While Jehovah's Christian Witnesses do not strongly encourage the pursuit of a university education, it is not forbidden. If one reads other Watchtower publications, the decision as to whether or not to attend college is left up to the individual.
I do agree on your statement..BUT WHY are they NOT encouraging kids to go to college? have you asked yourself that?...as you clearly stated "do not strongly encourage"...what a shame that is...they need to encourage all aspects of life..not just with GOD but even in life..Any church I have been to promotes people to go...
and the answer is....it's a HIGH CONTROL group, and an educated mind is MUCH HARDER to control!
IF your a witness, then get out it's a false religion, truly study religion, god, faith, and a healthy life is all possible outside the group, I know.
Crosscheck, It is illegal in most states to drop-out of school until the age of about 17. By this time you are already a Junior in high school. In effect YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO ATTEND HIGH SCHOOL. You are not required by law to attend college.You are subject to immorality in both places, every witness would agree with you, but one is required by law and the other is not. Home School is a popular alternative to both of these and many witness families are taking advantage of such programs.
backhome.. what you said is not at all true. There are many, many Christians who legally home school their children. You are not required by law to attend a school at any age.
In addition, one can receive an online college education and avoid the immorality associated with the institution.
It would appear that the Watchtower simply has a problem with higher education.
@21crosscheck21 well technacly u do have to go to school till ur 16. at least in the US u do. if not u can ur legal guardian would be held liable for legal action. u can drop out after u turn 16 but before that u have to go.
Nothing about this need expose anyone to immorality. No more then going to the gocery store exposes us to it. In the Bible at 1 Corinthians 10:13 it sates "No temptation has overtaken you that is unusual for human beings. But God is faithful, and he will not allow you to be tempted beyond your strength. Instead, along with the temptation he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to endure it." Are you saying that would not hold true at school? If so then why not?
im a jw and think about it higher education is university per-suing higher education is not a bad thing but we do give children a choice think about it if you earn 1million dollars a year or even less with a higher education you could be tempted to make even more money which could lead you in to problems for example buying shares in companies that are no trustworthy that could take your money you could lose your house family it ruins lives i go to high school and thats not wrong
The whole belief is just a sham created by a man named Charles Russell.If you so called jahovas whitnesses did your research you would see very clearly how the whole religion was produced by no one other that a simple human bieng, who had a lot of problems.a little slow behind the forhead!He niether heard nor saw any joe hova!He claimed Jesus returned but was invisible!! you people are seriously fucked! fucked i say! Your so called religion was invented in 1914 by a man! a MAN there is no jahova
You answered the question for yourself. There is a great differences between High School and College. Peer Pressure is much stronger in College than High School, and there is less holding you back. By the time you get to college you don't normally have parents to answer to because by then you have moved out. Young minds can be very curious and can become involved with immoral practices. The question is: Is safeguarding my relationship with God more important than going to school to earn more $ ?
Backhome... you present a bit of a false dilemma with that comment. That is the same kind of thinking that created the Monastic lifestyle back in the early days of the church.
Perhaps the better question is this: is a faith that is this weak be a saving faith to begin with?
We can prove u straight from the bible any question u have.But u cant prove me anything.I can prove u that the catholic church will be destroyed soon by God.Can u show me that the witness will?
As I said I know many JW's who are professional and skilled people.. the instruction I received was to avoid "worldly" influences.. especially those in Halls of Residence.
It was later in life (39) that I finally got my degree.. but that is only one opinion..
Since you have confessed to not being or having been a JW ... Mr 1j... why should this concern you?
Since this video is about education and JW's.. I would add that I know at least 4 General Practitioners and 1 Anaesthetist in the United Kingdom who are Jehovah's Witnesses. That takes more than a two week correspondence course I think.
JW's are fine upstanding members of the community and hard workers. They are keen however, to protect their youth from the influences illustrated at the beginning of this video. Well done, JW's.
.. what planet are you on?... I tried to help someone professionally to overcome the dreadful pain of sexual abuse by relating personal pain in my family.. the rape of my sister by a neighbour.. that was JWvictim. So you object to me and others trying to help this poor soul. Are you crazy?
*Born again video troll? All I have ever done is offer an opinion.. it is as valid or invalid as the reader perceives.. and only my opinion. I don't deny your right why do you deny mine? Actually..
thank you 1j.. I have blocked you since you sent me the sick video on the slaughtered pig.
It will do you good to now go public and show everyone what you sent me.. come on.. show your true strength and the depth of your depravity... If you are a man (or woman) of integrity... show us the video. I dare you.
Let's kill off the troll in you, once and for all.
Ah! Great diagnosis, doc. Now we are getting somewhere... that explains why you sent me a sick video showing a pig getting its throat cut.. implying this was a JW circuit overseer.
I think you are doing well... now lets look at your Schizophrenia.
Would one of you like to criticize the other and explain what motivates your following people around and hounding them...
LOL... and the Troll is frustrated at getting no response out of his victims! Friend, Shaz and I deal with your sort every day.. and we are happy for you to spend your time persecuting us ... if it means you leave some other poor soul alone.
Yes, we have spoken.. we look forward to your burn out and the restoration of your sanity.
How about making a reasoned and intelligent contribution in reply to the video for us all to consider... show us the man of strength you can be .. instead of this unprincipled straw man.
Welcome to brainwashing 101. Any rational person can see exactly whats going on here. The article is NOTHING about those immoral things mentioned. Those immoral things are only being used subconciously to keep you from going to school, a dumb sheep is a member for life.
The British Government obviously wishes to protect its citizens from the maelstrom of hate and intolerence.. whip it up in your own borders.. join the white supremecists of the Deep South with their homophobia and Anti Semitism.. join the "Moral majority" of the mid west who would wipe out all moral decent.. the USA as you paint it is the malaria infested lagoon of world hate and that's why your people are crying for change..
In the defense of the WTS, I think it is far more related to what they know goes on in colleges, the loose morals, that they want to protect the members from, more than not wanting someone to become a nurse or something. Second is the belief that Armageddon would come soon and what good would all that time becoming a doctor or other educated professional do. Of course, many who have become wealthy or well off have been known to fall from the faith in the face of materialism.
Thanks moshia.. I think that is a very moderate and tempered view.
However, 30 years on and the same misleading counsel is being spouted from the platform.
Noone can argue that the student milieu is a dangerous zone for Christians. However, I offer that there have been more lost from the congregations from hopelessness and despair and inability to provide their own material needs than have succumbed to the trappings of a University applied course...
..in fact the materialism often comes when those who have hitherto been deprived of decent living, suddenly find that funds and comfort are available..and like all other temptations they are overcome with material persuit.
If they were measured and balanced in the first place..many give up trappings for a more active role in full time service.
This problem is one almost unique to the JW lifestyle..but all emerging nations have such teething problems. It is time for that nation to graduate!
Beroeanman, it's funny to me how you seem to feel that your personal experience is somehow the rule, rather than the exception... I've been around JW's for many decades, and I have rarely seen the type of "dispair and hopelessness" that you've experienced. And when I have seen something similar to what you're discribing, it's generally been due to a lack of application of sound Bible principles.
JWs witnessses are a very "Bad associations spoil useful habits", "Keep separate from the world" kind of religion. They forbid marrying "worldly" people. Everybody is "worldly" unless they are potential converts. So they are kids away from home at college without supervision phobia is evident. My take is that IF you want to be a pioneer full time then do with less. Otherwise, you need college to pay for a family. Everybody can't be a missionary.
Thanks for pointing this out. It is clear this is misguided and many JWs are suffering from this. You are right on point that there is a phobia of hearing "worldly" ideas that the WTS cannot sometimes effectively rebut. But many JWs ignore this, using the excuse that "honor your father and mother" and being obedient to non-believing parents leaves them no choice.
.. I was made to feel useless, had no back up and collapsed. No provision in the congregation to guide me through destitution and despair. So, as ShibbolethJW said .. I had to pick myself up by the bootstraps and do something about it.
I didn't want to post this. It has taken me all those years.
Follow the Christ Robin... get baptised at 30 when you know your mind and your committment, learn a trade or skill to carry you through life and indeed, devote yourself to the Living God. Peace
Crosscheck, you read not only with prejudices but also a lack of discernment as to the what the counsel means... The intent there is not to say all those possible scenarios are comparable, but that they all pose various risks, risks that could impair the spirituality of a young, inexperienced Christian. Tell me, have you been to a university, .. I have, .. I understand the environment and potential pressures.
You see this as some kind of harsh, legalistic, Pharisaical excercise of authority. But you're wrong, that's not it at all, not even close. My heart bleeds from the frustration of knowing that I'll never be able to pierce the impenetrable blinders you're wearing, to help you see the truth of the matter. I'm sorry crosscheck, but I'm done commenting on this issue.
Shib, I would be careful about making to many negative comments about my personal motives. It is not a Christian thing to do as you do not know me personally. If you are interested in my motives...just ask...I will be happy to tell you exactly what they are.
I do understand the pressures of higher education and the risks. But a Christian should entrust their children to Yahweh, and trust that he will provide them strength and safety.
Why do they do that? It's frustrating for us when it is sooooooooo, obvious and it isn't to you. You, I'm sure feel the same way. Only difference is we have the truth, believe it and are willing to die for it. Are you?
Luke was a doctor. Even in his time, that was considered an occupation that is based on a higher education.
Jesus was well versed in scripture. The Scribes and Pharisees were impressed with this knowledge... this could be considered higher education status too.
There is no excuse... they are simply promoting ignorance so that the organization can feed information without any checks and balances.
I wouldn't be surprised if they started to encourage parents to keep their kids out of school.
.. Bravo, Tavlo. The "Truth" should stand up to scrutiny if it is such.. and, we are encouraged in Scripture to keep proving that these things are so.
The men and women of Beroea were such people.. stand up for what is right and have courage to speak out with the authority of Scripture.
This is so laughable! Tell me, what % of children who graduate high school go on to college? I don't know the figure off hand, but I would venture to say it's fairly low. Many people who are not JW's choose to forgo college for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with religious conviction, or they just fail to qualify. And yet, not only do they survive but they flourish materially, just as do many non-JW's. We encourage children to work hard at their education, whole souled, as to Jah.
Many take advantage of vocational education or go on to some suplmentary education to get either a degree or a designation. However, you critics seize upon this issue, you lie, distort and fabricate. Even former JW's beroeanman, tries to make it seem like JW's are hapless imbeciles! JW's will not be disuaded by this lying rhetoric, because we've read the articles, we've heard the talks and know the scriptural reasons,... we also know the spirit behind this counsel.
The question is simple Shib. Does the bible forbid higher education or is the WT just acting as the Pharisees did? I would be interested in your response.
No, the Bible doesn't speak specifically on this issue, as you know, just as it doesn't on other issues of life in our modern world.
I fear you could never understand the spirit of self-sacrifice that has drawn many JW's to this course. With or without a college education, I have personally witnessed the truthfulness of David's words, "A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, And yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, Nor his offspring looking for bread". (Psalm 37:25)
Whether or not a young Christian chooses a university education is a personal decision, what the Watchtower and Awake attempts to do, is to point out the various dangers and down-side of this decision, both in a practical and spiritual sense.
The truth is, a college education doesn't equate to either happiness or a "successful life", spiritually or otherwise.
At Eccl. 2:4-10, Solomon, who enjoyed virtually limitless resources and built up an astonishing list of career accomplishments, spoke on this issue: I, even I, turned toward all the works of mine that my hands had done and toward the hard work that I had worked hard to accomplish, and, look! everything was vanity [I realized that it didnt mean a thing, Todays English Version] and a striving after wind.—Ecclesiastes 2:11.
Based on experience, King Solomon advised:The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: "Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the "whole obligation" of man." (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
So, while JW's recognize the important role education plays in the lives of Christians, we acknowledge that the prime obligation for Christians today is to do God's will, to preach the Kingdom message.(Matthew 24:14)
To serve God with our whole heart, soul and strength.
Here's an exapmple of the very reasonable and balnaced counsel given regarding a university education: "g89 5/8 p. 14 What Career Should I Choose?
Employment prospects and educational systems vary from place to place. Youths have different abilities and inclinations. And while a career in the Christian ministry is recommended as being beneficial, it is still a matter of personal choice....
You and your parents must thus carefully weigh all factors involved in deciding how much education is right for you. Each one must carry his own load in making such decisions.—Galatians 6:5.
If, for example, your parents insist that you attend a university, you have no choice but to obey them as long as you are living under their supervision. (Ephesians 6:1-3) Perhaps you can continue living at home and avoid getting caught up in the university scene...
Be selective in your choice of courses, for example, focusing on learning job skills rather than worldly philosophies. Guard your associations. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Keep yourself spiritually strong by meeting attendance, field service, and personal study. Some youths who have been obliged to attend university have even managed to pioneer by choosing a schedule of courses that made that possible...
Choose your career carefully and prayerfully, so that it not only will bring personal happiness but will enable you to store up treasures in heaven.—Matthew 6:20.
Sorry for the very long response but I feel you were sincere in your question, and therefore deserved a detailed response.
I harbor no illusions that my reply will affect your view in any significant way, you've chosen to nurse a negative view of JW's, and no one can change that but you.
Thank you Shibboleth... that is a little less bombastic.
So, learning a trade or skill to carry you through life IS encouraged.. learning worldly philosphies is discouraged.
Excellent.. no pressure on the Kids at all really. You can learn and devote yourself to full time service, as you can work and do the same... provided you can fend for yourself financially without spongeing on the rest of the congregation.
A much better (and refreshing) approach. Many thanks for clarifying.
"beroeanman" ... This response including my comment about presumed sincerity, was directed to crosscheck, .. Not you... You already know this, .. Or at least, you should.
But why should I not applaud you for clarifying the situation? There are numerous videos here showing a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses... apparently dissuading youth from pursuing higher education.
You have put this in context, and are correct.. so, thank you
Thanks for taking the time to post that. Just so I understand, you do agree that a ban on higher education is biblical... correct?
And if you would allow anther question. It seems that in the article that the WT demonized education. If this magazine is meant for the general public (as opposed to the study edition), do you think the public understands the WT position as you described it from what was printed in this edition?
Where does this word "ban" come from? Have you ever seen anything indicating a ban in the publications of JW's? The article clearly said, the decision to attend a University is a "personal" choice, .... There are no "bans", .. other than what an individual Christian may decide on for himself.
However, to answer your question, .. No, I don't agree that a "ban" on higher education is Biblical.
It's interesting that you choose to use the word, "demonize" when referring to the comments from Awake magazine.
Why is that?
The comments I posted were copied and pasted from the May 8th, 1989 Awake, pg. 14... (No study edition existed at that time, and still doesn't for the Awake).
I honestly believe that if a person/the public were to read this material without prejudice, they would clearly understand our position on this issue. Those comments are neither unclear nor ambiguous, they speak for themselves without any help from me.
Again, because you view JW's and our views askance, what I/we see as wholesome, reasonable and scriptural counsel, you see as a demonization of the issue.
I had asked a number of people to read the article that I cited ( not the Awake you cited) and then I asked them their thoughts. The reaction was the same from all. They were surprised that Higher education would be compared to things that were immoral and sometimes illegal.
I did not use the word demonize in relation to what you wrote, sorry if I did not make that clear. I used it in reference to the WT article that I quoted in the video.
I feel like the Wt has gone back and forth on the issue a bit, sometimes harsh towards education and sometimes positive. To be blunt... a little wishy washy.
Crosscheck, the context and tenor of your question and comments indicate that you see the stance of JW's as amounting to a "ban" on higher education ... Let's be honest.
My question to you is, has anything I've said or posted, including the direct comments from the WTBTS changed your views at all?
My guess is that those who pursue higher education will be judged as "spiritually weak."
And that others will miss out on the opportunity for higher education because their parents, well meaning as they may be, will consider education bad or dangerous based on articles like the one I cited.
While my opinion has not changed, I do appreciate your perspective on the issue.
Only when, like you, they turn into self-absorbed, pity mongers with a unquenchable thirst to blame everyone but themselves for the outcome of their chosen course.
S(h)ibboleth... I think you should change your name... If you really had wisdom from above you would refrain from such bombastic statements.
Who is apportioning blame? A whole generation of youth is being deprived of developing its god-given skills.
In the UK we have an expression "I'm all right Jack"... yup no doubt you are enjoying the opulence of a developed career and supporting your family well. Many don't have that privilege.
Please don't point the finger..my university degree..
You may still have the knowledge, but you've lost the descernment, so called beroeanman.
I could suggest a few name changes for you as well.
True Christians, as Peter said, are "temporary residents" of this system... We are those who see the dangers of a system, which has Satan for it's God, .. Yes Satan, who is misleading the ENTIRE inhabited earth..
There is no question, for the spirituality of a true Christian, higher education poses many risks, many of JW's know this, not only because they've read about it in the pages of the W.T, but because they've witnessed it, first hand. You cast your lot in with those who foolishly fail to recognize that true Christians refrain from using the world to the full, ... not because we fear the W.T, but because we love and fear JAH.
Rubbish... I have known more people stumble into unchristian activity because of their despair, than having a solid vocation and developing their spirituality alongside it.
Please do not persist with these insults... and I would remind you that "each one must work out his own Salvation", carry his/her own load but throw their burdens of THE LORD... Jehovah and follow the Christ who did not get baptised until he was thirty and was (probably) a skilled carpenter as well as being well versed..
Peter was married and supported his family as a fisherman... Luke was a Physician... Paul a maker of tents..
they had means to support themselves.. indeed they were "temporary residents".. but they didn't sponge off the state they lived in.. they learnt to provide and care for themselves... so your point is? Who is going to teach these skills... youth needs practical as well as spiritual help.
The family unit and ties is central to the gospel of Christ and Christian living...
Change his name.lol. beroeanman! NO children are being denied their developing god-given skills. In fact if you read scripture, which I'm beginning to think you do not, you would see clearly that parents have every right to direct thier children's education. When did it become the governments responsibility or yours to mandate or direct the education of children. Show me the constitutional directive in this regard. The Bible's clear, each parent has the responsibilty of educating their children.
Hi Robin... are you addressing these comments to me.
Actually I chose beroeanman because after walking out of the congregation 26 years ago I am now beginning to carefully examine the scriptures again to reestablish my faith. My angst amongst the congregation then is my own.
I served 6 years as a regular pioneer and 4 years in Bethel, was told I was "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"... They were right...
Three little words "Beroeanman" ... "Get over it"!
I've seen these expressions of yours repeated at nauseum. .... "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"
Where have I overused these expressions Shibboleth? I confided in you... obviously you have broken that confidence.
I will not trust you again. And, how can I trust a man who is surfing these chat rooms against the counsel of his own Governing Body. I doubt your claim to be a serving Elder of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I am "over it"... thanks... you have finally freed me from the fear of men like you... Cheers
I've seen those phrases, "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"
posted under at least three different youtube screen names, to the comments section of various JW videos. I can only assume they all came from the same behind the scenes source, currently YOU, "BM".
In all the instances I recall, the context was the same, those big-bad JW's were so mean to me. Get over it BM!
Stop persecuting me ShibbolethJW.. I used the expressions as they were conveyed to me, for following the exact counsel in the video. As did TENS of thousands of others.. to their cost.
I thought you were the one that moderated the view and gave us all your wisened answer.
Follow the Christ.. learn to get to know your God... get baptised at 30, having learned a skill or a trade and grow strong in your relationship with our God and Father....
I'm sorry to seem harsh in my responses to you beroeanman, but there are many of us who've endured various slights and insults over the years, soame at the hands of our own brothers. And I know how it hurts, but as Pauls said,(Romans 8:38-39)"For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers 39 nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Gods love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
I hear you... we are still talking about the same "forked-tongue" counsel 25 years on. The issue, you have clarified. Perhaps that needs to come from the platform.
I have only presented the devestation of the effects of poor advice, counsel and shepherding. Perhaps we can all learn.
There is a time for everything under the Sun.. All the best
The counsel has been good, the application has sometimes been wanting... BM, I just honestly feel that your holding on to, and perhaps nursing your hurt feelings will ultimately be to your detriment, and don't want to see that, I believe you have a good heart... That's why I feel you must get beyong the insensitive way you were treated in the past and move forward... Be at peace BM, and return to your brothers.
I know your love for God and faith in Christ is intact, but I believe the God of peace is using an organization today to get the good news preached to the entire inhabited earth before the end comes. I think you and I agree, this is not being done in the realm of Christendom, but by JW's.
JW's are not perfect, but as a group, they do exhibit the kind of submission to God's will, as the result of genuine humility, which marks them as true Christians. Why allow yourself to be separated from that?
I will come back when I see wise counsel that builds futures and families... whether this system is about to expire or continues for centuries more.
The whole issue needs clarification, and spelling out for the rank and file.
Do I hear the expression "Count the cost" before you build your tower.. I put it to you that there are HUNDREDS of thousands of your brothers and sisters that would be back if they didn't feel so let down.
.. The expressions are also posted to videos on exactly the same subject which have been presented by several videos showing the same address in Monza (Italy) by a member of the Governing Body.
So, the message is the same..
To you, I wrote, in confidence my personal story. Do you want me to publish this before you betray me totally?
Keep the counsel broad and not personal and you won't keep provoking people, Shib.
So, You Get Over It too, and let people have freedom of expression.
Riddle me this Batman: Why is there doctors who are witnesses? Why does the Watchtower have it's own lawyers? Funny..but I don't think they got their degree from a cracker jack box!
Yeah, they preach and preach not to go to college, but when the Society is in a real jam with a blood issue or a legal issue, who do they turn to? That's right folks...their own doctors and lawyers...WHO WENT TO COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mind control..Mind Control..Mind control
Yup... you are right muzikman.. and they cannot see that when their young fall into despair and can't earn enough to see them through life.. it is their own short sighted counsel that is causing it.
The only thing it generates is a series of official articles on the evils of anti depressants and how you can kicked out if you are hooked on them!
Besides how about targetting the well healed and settled in retirement to serve full time?
MAN you are so off on this comment. Most Witnesses who devote their lives to full time service are granted by God with lives full and rich in travel and experience. Their education is provided in the experience of life among the many traditions and cultures they meet and embrace everyday. You are jealous of their experience. If only you could devout yourself to such selfless service then maybe you could experience their level of contentment. Ahhhhhhhh!
I can't tell you how exciting it is to know that someone who apparently has never been in the cancer understands the madness those of us who were raised in it, endured.
Thank you for posting this video. Talk to as many JayDub kids as you possibly can.
I have a Bachelors of Science in Chemical Engineering, BTW :oP I only found out many years later that my dad was pressured to pressure me otherwise, and he never did. I love my dad. :oP
Well, I've got a great career as an environmental consultant and everything, but recently I've discovered my real calling. Speaking out against the Watchtower Babble and Crap Society !! Wee.
If you ae an environmental consultant BrightLight.. be sensible and Keep it Clean, eh? LOL
There is a positive use for Sewage Farms... they clean up our mess... and their are Scientists behind them with our best Health in mind.
Despite it all... The Organisation you taunt has produced a remarkably clean and wholesome people. I'm talking Refinement here not releasing Bubonic plague on the world.
Lighten up and see the good... but, agreed, stand up for reform for what is right.
LOL, please trust me you have no idea what you're talking about when you suggest "reform". How do you put an organization that was created by a quack and advanced by a sociopath "back on track". There is no "on track" for JW world. The reason the religion exists, is a lie. If you want to be a Christian, pick any flavor you like, they have far more legitimacy than the JW scam.
The religion has produced a few clean wholesome people, uncountable suicides, narcissistic personalities,
(continued from below), emotional terror to millions, failed marriages, sick relationships, powerful liars, financial ruin, alienation...
The biggest product of the JW organization is Athiests. Kingdom Halls should be taxed as factories, they manufacture MILLIONS of Athiests. If you are a Christian and really had perspective on "the Truth", you would not lend any legitimacy to the cult.
Stalin made some very unselfish and equality-minded people. I'm not very impressed with them either.
Its a facade. Scratch the surface and it smells pretty bad. I don't know ANY JW's I grew up with that I would consider to be "wonderful people". You need to live amongst them awhile before you see the dirt hidden just under the rug.
What a sad individual you are BrightLight.. I have just come off the phone from my Father who reported the death of an Elders wife through the most painful form of cancer.. He, is wife and the children are pillars of the community... I have just offered a prayer.
I grew up with and associated with a very loving congregation..
You are sadly wrong and very warped..
Best wishes in the hope your personal peace with override your hate.
Travel the road to Damascus before it is too late!
Ever heard the saying "When your hope rests on a plagarism of the Egyptian God Rah and your community rests on cult mind control.... one shouldn't throw stones?
If not, its a similar lesson like "judge not lest thee be judged". :oP Mr. Crazypants.
Crosscheck:I do apologize that your presentation has deteriorated into a personal attack. I think the answers Shib has given gives a moderating view and you have been gracious in your post and ruminations.
In the UK we have laws against those who incite to hatred and promote religious, homophobic and xenophobic speeech.
The word Cult is being banded to liberally and taken way out of context by BringtheLight who quite obviously doesn't know the origin of the word. Let good people flourish
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I used to be a JW. I left after 2 years as I decided it was not a God I knew. My God was love and peace, and I could not not relate to a God of 'excessive discipline'. This talk of wrath etc was confusing to me. However 10 years later, I get it. I committed sinful behaviour that could now by life threatening. I completely understand the need for 'house rules'. Though you don't get the reason for rules, don't rebel. A child don't get why his dad removes the matches it's playin with either
nevernextdoor1 4 months ago
Having been associated with the WBTS and recently DA'd myself I have watched several videos on YouTube. Many have been former member who came to the same conclusion I did. The GB is not God's channel of communication. Thier own literature exposes them. However, I have noted that many people use sarcasm in their manner to "help" others who have questions or have left. I respect you for just "informing" and leaving out negative emotions or thoughts. Let the truth speak for itself. Amen Brother!
4EverCamelot 8 months ago
1 John 2:16-we don't want to gain riches and desire money. Jesus said keep your eye simple-Luke 11:34. We should be simple, and satisfied with sustenance and covering-1 Timothy 6:8-10. Why waste TIME, slaving away for riches, where moth and rust consume-Matthew 6:19-21. Slave for God, inherit everlasting life! Matthew 5:5. Romans 6:16-with righteousness in view. Matthew 19:21. Matthew 6:24-you cannot slave for God and for riches. Jesus wants disciples-Matthew 4:17,24:14, 28:19,20. Acts 20:20.
eternityandforever 9 months ago
@eternityandforever Ironically, if you do go to college, you get a better position at Bethel. Again with the hypocrisy. The WTS is constantly saying one thing, but doing another.
Granted most who go to college wake up to what the WTS doesn't want you to find out, but I do find it curious that they reward you for not listening to them.
Danmera 7 months ago
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Jesus taught only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God! We keep separate from the world as Jesus taught. READ John 17:16. James 4:4. 1 John 5:19. TRUTH!
eternityandforever 9 months ago
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The more you want the truth, the more you study the bible, then you know JW's is true! Jesus said there is only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ..."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God!
eternityandforever 9 months ago
i have a lot of jw friends who are currently attending college
seamonkey1070 1 year ago
@seamonkey1070 I'm glad to see that they are ignoring the un biblical advice of the Elders and the organization. Kudos to them for independently thinking.
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
hi, you got some great information
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
Why does the WT control the way its reps dress? Why must the reps have that 'clean neat look? Well you accept literature from some one who didn't look clean and respectable? Would you listen to a 'scruff' talking about God and offering you literature?
napsuta 1 year ago
This is different than the actions of other Christians How? We have the kettle calling the pot black here. Multiple Christian cults saying they are right, when none of the really know including the JW.
5lkk 1 year ago
if ur a jw... u CAN go 2 college if u want
babyjesus484 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers dat wat my mom tels me
babyjesus484 1 year ago
Just another loser with no life. Patheti piece of trash.
109Thunder 1 year ago
Talkin about yourself?
EelSacul 1 year ago
Great Video.
jcdied4all 2 years ago
JW's are modern day NAZI's. Anyone who denys education and trys to control information and what you are allowed to THINK is EVIL.
Cherubaby 2 years ago
no jw believe furthering education takes your time alway from God... and many colleges teach evolution and ex...
Nickatimes 2 years ago
Jehovah's name is mentioned 7000 times in the Old Testament. It amazes me how disrespectful people are and it is no wonder that Judgment is being called. I used to think JW's were a pain years ago, but after I got sick and Jehovah helped me i understand the importance of those who carry his name.
It easy for someone to criticize what they do not understand but how are you being helpful and positive by doing so and do you think you will gain from being a negative person.
HalleLuJah Thanks!
jonnyblaze777 2 years ago
@jonnyblaze777
Hovah in Hebrew means evil, rebel,cause turmoil ec.
mattandpatti222 2 years ago
Jws have not business being on your Porsche/
That is one expensive car and anybody with any respect including them should stay off it. They must not appreciate how hard you worked to own a porsche.
tonyschmoeredux 2 years ago
I'm an ex-witness and what you have to know is that higher education is a matter of personal choice. They try to push kids not to go to college but there are many who are smart and just go ahead and go to college.There is no scripture that says it's a sin so they can't say you have sinned.I think a lot of kids need to be informed that this is wrong.They should go to college and then after that if they want to preach full-time they can do so.
Sarai217 2 years ago
"They try to push kids not to go to college"
Never heard of that. It depends on the country's culture.
ImaginativeBrowsing 2 years ago
Im from the USA..and this is definitely true..its is definitely pushed not to go to college..in fact you can find here in Youtube a brother in a district convention speaking exactly about this...of course there is no sin, but has it been taught..YES...we may be living in the last days, but dont assume that you stop living - getting educated...making a better situation for yourself..
rhdtv2002 2 years ago
@Sarai217 Yes I am a JW and went to college. has to be done responsibly. I'm in medical field. However, now a days w/ the economy only 1 out of 3 graduates will get the job they want. 33%. + being exposed to sex and drugs. I tell my kids go ahead get educated, but get a education where what you do for a living you are happy and can serve Jehovah. I have never met anyone who is wealthy that is truly happy, in fact they are misrable, and worried about money,.
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
@shihtzufizzers Well, then you've never met or heard of Dave Ramsey, a wonderful Christian man who teaches biblical finance, and the importance of remembering that every good and perfact gift comes from the Father. God gives us blessings on Earth in order to steward them wisely, by listening to the Spirit's urgings. By the way, unless one lives in solatary confinement, one will encounter sex, drugs, etc. It's called the real world. Welcome.
wijcik 1 year ago
@wijcik yes one will encounter those things. but why put yourself into constant temptation? The real world is ppl don;t listen to Gods laws at all. fornication is common practice. Drugs is accepted in many cultures. yes this is living in the real world, but I choose not to partake in this. I know it is going around, I see it everyday, doesn't mean I want to join in. I don't need the name of some man stating these things, for God states them in his word the bible. Yes every gift is from God
shihtzufizzers 1 year ago
Dan 12:9 And he went on to say: Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand.
stuart1116 2 years ago
Part 4 - Many choose to attend a college near home, so that they can still live with their parents and avoid possible pitfalls from living in a university dorm. Some have even become surgeons - specializing in bloodless surgical techniques. Many have become educators, teaching at a school from 9-3 PM. That gives them more time to pursue spiritual interests. So while the Watchtower does not encourage higher education, it certainly does not condemn it.
davidl7b 2 years ago
Every meeting I went to they always discouraged people from going to college. But yet, look at the elders, normally they all make good money, they been to college, and they have very nice homes. So, if they did all that why are they discouraging others for doing the same? Is it they do not want others at the meetings to have good things like they have and make good money?
aaronstaken 2 years ago
Happily most repent and come back to the congregation. However, many Christian youths that have decided to pursue a higher education have remained faithful in the truth. Many choose to attend a college near home, so that they can still live with their parents and avoid possible pitfalls from living in a university dorm.
davidl7b 2 years ago
Part 2 True, the publications warn of possible dangers--drugs, non-marital sex, etc, all of which is more common in universities, even in the so-called "Christian" schools managed by Evangelicals. The pressure to fall into unchristian conduct appears to be greater in college than in high school, especially since many students study away from home. And some Witness youth who have attended college have fallen.
davidl7b 2 years ago
Actually, Jehovah's witnesses believe that pursuing God's kingdom should be the priortity in ones life. Following christ is the most important to them. College has proven to be dangerous morally for many youths. Especially Christian youths. Those temptations that you mentioned there all exist in the College enviroment. So to avoid these temptations, Jehovah's Witness simply ENCOURAGE their youths to continue seeking God's kingdom first instead of pursuing wordly interest that could....
oneworldkingdom 2 years ago
Put their spirituality in Jeopardy. Afterall, higher education was available during Jesus and his disciples era within the Roman empire. But instead, they chose a simple life and pursued kingdom interest. Jehovah's Witnesses follow closely those same footsteps of Christ and the early Christians. They also encourage taking up a skill and trade via trade school so that they can sustain themselves. They've done pretty well with this and is currently the worlds fastest growing christian faith.
oneworldkingdom 2 years ago
Part 1: While Jehovah's Christian Witnesses do not strongly encourage the pursuit of a university education, it is not forbidden. While Jehovah's Christian Witnesses do not strongly encourage the pursuit of a university education, it is not forbidden. If one reads other Watchtower publications, the decision as to whether or not to attend college is left up to the individual.
davidl7b 2 years ago
I do agree on your statement..BUT WHY are they NOT encouraging kids to go to college? have you asked yourself that?...as you clearly stated "do not strongly encourage"...what a shame that is...they need to encourage all aspects of life..not just with GOD but even in life..Any church I have been to promotes people to go...
rhdtv2002 2 years ago
21crosscheck21: God bless you!
bebedeppe 3 years ago
and the answer is....it's a HIGH CONTROL group, and an educated mind is MUCH HARDER to control!
IF your a witness, then get out it's a false religion, truly study religion, god, faith, and a healthy life is all possible outside the group, I know.
Core1138 3 years ago
Crosscheck, It is illegal in most states to drop-out of school until the age of about 17. By this time you are already a Junior in high school. In effect YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO ATTEND HIGH SCHOOL. You are not required by law to attend college.You are subject to immorality in both places, every witness would agree with you, but one is required by law and the other is not. Home School is a popular alternative to both of these and many witness families are taking advantage of such programs.
backhome2010 3 years ago
backhome.. what you said is not at all true. There are many, many Christians who legally home school their children. You are not required by law to attend a school at any age.
In addition, one can receive an online college education and avoid the immorality associated with the institution.
It would appear that the Watchtower simply has a problem with higher education.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
@21crosscheck21 well technacly u do have to go to school till ur 16. at least in the US u do. if not u can ur legal guardian would be held liable for legal action. u can drop out after u turn 16 but before that u have to go.
KaiHiwatariStudios2 1 year ago
Nothing about this need expose anyone to immorality. No more then going to the gocery store exposes us to it. In the Bible at 1 Corinthians 10:13 it sates "No temptation has overtaken you that is unusual for human beings. But God is faithful, and he will not allow you to be tempted beyond your strength. Instead, along with the temptation he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to endure it." Are you saying that would not hold true at school? If so then why not?
Core1138 3 years ago
Thank you for that..... really good point Core1138.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
im a jw and think about it higher education is university per-suing higher education is not a bad thing but we do give children a choice think about it if you earn 1million dollars a year or even less with a higher education you could be tempted to make even more money which could lead you in to problems for example buying shares in companies that are no trustworthy that could take your money you could lose your house family it ruins lives i go to high school and thats not wrong
POSHLOVER12 3 years ago
The whole belief is just a sham created by a man named Charles Russell.If you so called jahovas whitnesses did your research you would see very clearly how the whole religion was produced by no one other that a simple human bieng, who had a lot of problems.a little slow behind the forhead!He niether heard nor saw any joe hova!He claimed Jesus returned but was invisible!! you people are seriously fucked! fucked i say! Your so called religion was invented in 1914 by a man! a MAN there is no jahova
cptnbeanz 2 years ago
Peter Disobeyed Jesus the night he told him to stay awake so even Gods people can make mistakes but the main point is repentance...
Nickatimes 2 years ago
You answered the question for yourself. There is a great differences between High School and College. Peer Pressure is much stronger in College than High School, and there is less holding you back. By the time you get to college you don't normally have parents to answer to because by then you have moved out. Young minds can be very curious and can become involved with immoral practices. The question is: Is safeguarding my relationship with God more important than going to school to earn more $ ?
backhome2010 3 years ago
Backhome... you present a bit of a false dilemma with that comment. That is the same kind of thinking that created the Monastic lifestyle back in the early days of the church.
Perhaps the better question is this: is a faith that is this weak be a saving faith to begin with?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
NO NO NO watchout thats satanic litreture! I recommend you type in google fritz springmeier and he goes into great etail on why JWs are satanic!
essy111 3 years ago
what is Satanic about promoting Christian values?.. and ensuring that your congregations are clean from the influence of immorality and mis conduct?
YES YES YES to such standard essy..
best wishes
beroeanman 3 years ago
We can prove u straight from the bible any question u have.But u cant prove me anything.I can prove u that the catholic church will be destroyed soon by God.Can u show me that the witness will?
stupidvid 3 years ago
OK, I'll bite. straight from the bible prove to me that it is a sin, and you are spiritually weak if you were a beard.
Clear passages that are in context please.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
NWT 1 John 4:2Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God.
The catholic church confesses Jesus Christ came in the flesh. I'm not catholic but you, who are you to judge the others?
bebedeppe 3 years ago
As I said I know many JW's who are professional and skilled people.. the instruction I received was to avoid "worldly" influences.. especially those in Halls of Residence.
It was later in life (39) that I finally got my degree.. but that is only one opinion..
Since you have confessed to not being or having been a JW ... Mr 1j... why should this concern you?
beroeanman 3 years ago
Quel surprise! you aren't a JW after all, 1jehovahswitness.. we are all absolutely astonished, shocked, by this Damascus revelation.
Obviously you were around in the late '60's to read such an article and make your life decisions..
If you have the strength of character you can achieve what you want.. if you fluffed up your life decisions then.. MOVE ON.
Otherwise life will overtake you and you will demoted to the life of a bitter and twisted Internet Troll... you don't deserve that fate
beroeanman 3 years ago
Since this video is about education and JW's.. I would add that I know at least 4 General Practitioners and 1 Anaesthetist in the United Kingdom who are Jehovah's Witnesses. That takes more than a two week correspondence course I think.
JW's are fine upstanding members of the community and hard workers. They are keen however, to protect their youth from the influences illustrated at the beginning of this video. Well done, JW's.
beroeanman 3 years ago 2
Yup... trolls depend on it to keep feeding.
beroeanman 3 years ago
Good morning 1j.. preparing for a good day's trolling are we?
How is my morphic Troll... beginning to take try and imitate my personality.. getting ready to imitate my Youtube name like you have so many others.
Its a boring and predictable modus operandi my twisted little friend..
Is there anything good left in you?
As for anger.. a very productive emotion. Not one of my favourites, but Jesus did display it on occasion..
beroeanman 3 years ago
.. what planet are you on?... I tried to help someone professionally to overcome the dreadful pain of sexual abuse by relating personal pain in my family.. the rape of my sister by a neighbour.. that was JWvictim. So you object to me and others trying to help this poor soul. Are you crazy?
*Born again video troll? All I have ever done is offer an opinion.. it is as valid or invalid as the reader perceives.. and only my opinion. I don't deny your right why do you deny mine? Actually..
beroeanman 3 years ago
thank you 1j.. I have blocked you since you sent me the sick video on the slaughtered pig.
It will do you good to now go public and show everyone what you sent me.. come on.. show your true strength and the depth of your depravity... If you are a man (or woman) of integrity... show us the video. I dare you.
Let's kill off the troll in you, once and for all.
beroeanman 3 years ago
None.. 1j All this displays your paranoia..
Your diagnosis today is Schizophrenia and manic depression with rapid cycling. The roll of Internet Troll is ideal for you.
24 of us have just returned from an advanced life support course.. VERY informative.. if you wish to call that pretend medicine.
You see 1j.. I have something you do not. Consistency.. I tell the truth.
I don't need to alter my story or personality.
Now... let's have your self analysis on your own Schizophrenia
beroeanman 3 years ago
Now we need you to explain your Schizophrenia 1j... we have the paranoia bit.. it's the rest of your psychosis that needs defining now.
That should help you break this Troll habit you have formed. Keep going, and well done!
beroeanman 3 years ago
Yes I do... and as I commented way back I was part of the generation that based its future with that in mind. That is what this video is all about.
I did not get my degree in medicine 'til I was 39.. but it shows despite the despair of many.. we can still achieve if we put our minds to it.
What wrong can there be in education with vocational bias?
beroeanman 3 years ago
That's it friend... self diagnosis is half way to cure...
well done.. now spread the word amongst the trolls.. your end is in sight, freedom awaits you!
beroeanman 3 years ago
Ah! Great diagnosis, doc. Now we are getting somewhere... that explains why you sent me a sick video showing a pig getting its throat cut.. implying this was a JW circuit overseer.
I think you are doing well... now lets look at your Schizophrenia.
Would one of you like to criticize the other and explain what motivates your following people around and hounding them...
Pleased we are getting somewhere with you.
Well Done!
beroeanman 3 years ago
I have blocked your transmission of vile videos.. so you can only taunt me via the videos..
where you and I can be monitored.
Since you follow me around with intent to incite to religious and personal hatred.. I will let "prying" eyes judge..
anything upbuilding to contribute?
beroeanman 3 years ago
Abraham was in his 70's I believe.. when he was weened.
Keep up the attacks... believe me you are doing just the right thing for prying eyes.
Cheers
beroeanman 3 years ago
LOL... and the Troll is frustrated at getting no response out of his victims! Friend, Shaz and I deal with your sort every day.. and we are happy for you to spend your time persecuting us ... if it means you leave some other poor soul alone.
Yes, we have spoken.. we look forward to your burn out and the restoration of your sanity.
Looking forward to your next attack.
beroeanman 3 years ago
I have absolutely no idea my little internet troll... why don't you 'phone JW HQ and find out.
Looking forward to your first upbuilding contribution here..
enjoy your sport, matey.
beroeanman 3 years ago
smoking cigs and higher education are different! hehe! immorality is relative. enethical movies are worse!
MaryStewart 3 years ago
How about making a reasoned and intelligent contribution in reply to the video for us all to consider... show us the man of strength you can be .. instead of this unprincipled straw man.
beroeanman 3 years ago
Welcome to brainwashing 101. Any rational person can see exactly whats going on here. The article is NOTHING about those immoral things mentioned. Those immoral things are only being used subconciously to keep you from going to school, a dumb sheep is a member for life.
melvyd2 3 years ago
The British Government obviously wishes to protect its citizens from the maelstrom of hate and intolerence.. whip it up in your own borders.. join the white supremecists of the Deep South with their homophobia and Anti Semitism.. join the "Moral majority" of the mid west who would wipe out all moral decent.. the USA as you paint it is the malaria infested lagoon of world hate and that's why your people are crying for change..
Roll on November 4th!
beroeanman 3 years ago
LOLz...love the cartoon crosscheck :)
you know shaz made a video like this and he was sitting in the exact same position ? is this the devils influence ?
WatchtowerLemming 3 years ago
In the defense of the WTS, I think it is far more related to what they know goes on in colleges, the loose morals, that they want to protect the members from, more than not wanting someone to become a nurse or something. Second is the belief that Armageddon would come soon and what good would all that time becoming a doctor or other educated professional do. Of course, many who have become wealthy or well off have been known to fall from the faith in the face of materialism.
moshiachyozif1992 3 years ago 3
Thanks moshia.. I think that is a very moderate and tempered view.
However, 30 years on and the same misleading counsel is being spouted from the platform.
Noone can argue that the student milieu is a dangerous zone for Christians. However, I offer that there have been more lost from the congregations from hopelessness and despair and inability to provide their own material needs than have succumbed to the trappings of a University applied course...
beroeanman 3 years ago
..in fact the materialism often comes when those who have hitherto been deprived of decent living, suddenly find that funds and comfort are available..and like all other temptations they are overcome with material persuit.
If they were measured and balanced in the first place..many give up trappings for a more active role in full time service.
This problem is one almost unique to the JW lifestyle..but all emerging nations have such teething problems. It is time for that nation to graduate!
beroeanman 3 years ago
Beroeanman, it's funny to me how you seem to feel that your personal experience is somehow the rule, rather than the exception... I've been around JW's for many decades, and I have rarely seen the type of "dispair and hopelessness" that you've experienced. And when I have seen something similar to what you're discribing, it's generally been due to a lack of application of sound Bible principles.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
moshiachyozif1992: "In the defense of the WTS, I think it is far more related to what they know goes on in colleges"
How do they know what goes on in colleges? they never went!?
spitandsawdust 3 years ago
JWs witnessses are a very "Bad associations spoil useful habits", "Keep separate from the world" kind of religion. They forbid marrying "worldly" people. Everybody is "worldly" unless they are potential converts. So they are kids away from home at college without supervision phobia is evident. My take is that IF you want to be a pioneer full time then do with less. Otherwise, you need college to pay for a family. Everybody can't be a missionary.
moshiachyozif1992 3 years ago
Bravo Moshia... Well put!
beroeanman 3 years ago
Yes, how eloquent, bravo mush...
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Thanks for pointing this out. It is clear this is misguided and many JWs are suffering from this. You are right on point that there is a phobia of hearing "worldly" ideas that the WTS cannot sometimes effectively rebut. But many JWs ignore this, using the excuse that "honor your father and mother" and being obedient to non-believing parents leaves them no choice.
moshiachyozif1992 3 years ago
.. I was made to feel useless, had no back up and collapsed. No provision in the congregation to guide me through destitution and despair. So, as ShibbolethJW said .. I had to pick myself up by the bootstraps and do something about it.
I didn't want to post this. It has taken me all those years.
Follow the Christ Robin... get baptised at 30 when you know your mind and your committment, learn a trade or skill to carry you through life and indeed, devote yourself to the Living God. Peace
beroeanman 3 years ago
Bman
you don't have to post it!!!
Robin
nibornagrom 3 years ago
The hurt runs deep for many Robin... but we are not all the sons of Korah..
Best wishes
beroeanman 3 years ago
Crosscheck, you read not only with prejudices but also a lack of discernment as to the what the counsel means... The intent there is not to say all those possible scenarios are comparable, but that they all pose various risks, risks that could impair the spirituality of a young, inexperienced Christian. Tell me, have you been to a university, .. I have, .. I understand the environment and potential pressures.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
You see this as some kind of harsh, legalistic, Pharisaical excercise of authority. But you're wrong, that's not it at all, not even close. My heart bleeds from the frustration of knowing that I'll never be able to pierce the impenetrable blinders you're wearing, to help you see the truth of the matter. I'm sorry crosscheck, but I'm done commenting on this issue.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Shib, I would be careful about making to many negative comments about my personal motives. It is not a Christian thing to do as you do not know me personally. If you are interested in my motives...just ask...I will be happy to tell you exactly what they are.
I do understand the pressures of higher education and the risks. But a Christian should entrust their children to Yahweh, and trust that he will provide them strength and safety.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Shib, I would be careful about making to many negative comments about my personal motives.
Crosscheck, I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about???
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Why do they do that? It's frustrating for us when it is sooooooooo, obvious and it isn't to you. You, I'm sure feel the same way. Only difference is we have the truth, believe it and are willing to die for it. Are you?
Robin
nibornagrom 3 years ago
Luke was a doctor. Even in his time, that was considered an occupation that is based on a higher education.
Jesus was well versed in scripture. The Scribes and Pharisees were impressed with this knowledge... this could be considered higher education status too.
There is no excuse... they are simply promoting ignorance so that the organization can feed information without any checks and balances.
I wouldn't be surprised if they started to encourage parents to keep their kids out of school.
Tavlo 3 years ago
.. Bravo, Tavlo. The "Truth" should stand up to scrutiny if it is such.. and, we are encouraged in Scripture to keep proving that these things are so.
The men and women of Beroea were such people.. stand up for what is right and have courage to speak out with the authority of Scripture.
Well said.
beroeanman 3 years ago
This is so laughable! Tell me, what % of children who graduate high school go on to college? I don't know the figure off hand, but I would venture to say it's fairly low. Many people who are not JW's choose to forgo college for a host of reasons that have nothing to do with religious conviction, or they just fail to qualify. And yet, not only do they survive but they flourish materially, just as do many non-JW's. We encourage children to work hard at their education, whole souled, as to Jah.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Many take advantage of vocational education or go on to some suplmentary education to get either a degree or a designation. However, you critics seize upon this issue, you lie, distort and fabricate. Even former JW's beroeanman, tries to make it seem like JW's are hapless imbeciles! JW's will not be disuaded by this lying rhetoric, because we've read the articles, we've heard the talks and know the scriptural reasons,... we also know the spirit behind this counsel.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
The question is simple Shib. Does the bible forbid higher education or is the WT just acting as the Pharisees did? I would be interested in your response.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
No, the Bible doesn't speak specifically on this issue, as you know, just as it doesn't on other issues of life in our modern world.
I fear you could never understand the spirit of self-sacrifice that has drawn many JW's to this course. With or without a college education, I have personally witnessed the truthfulness of David's words, "A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, And yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, Nor his offspring looking for bread". (Psalm 37:25)
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Whether or not a young Christian chooses a university education is a personal decision, what the Watchtower and Awake attempts to do, is to point out the various dangers and down-side of this decision, both in a practical and spiritual sense.
The truth is, a college education doesn't equate to either happiness or a "successful life", spiritually or otherwise.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
At Eccl. 2:4-10, Solomon, who enjoyed virtually limitless resources and built up an astonishing list of career accomplishments, spoke on this issue: I, even I, turned toward all the works of mine that my hands had done and toward the hard work that I had worked hard to accomplish, and, look! everything was vanity [I realized that it didnt mean a thing, Todays English Version] and a striving after wind.—Ecclesiastes 2:11.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Based on experience, King Solomon advised:The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: "Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the "whole obligation" of man." (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
So, while JW's recognize the important role education plays in the lives of Christians, we acknowledge that the prime obligation for Christians today is to do God's will, to preach the Kingdom message.(Matthew 24:14)
To serve God with our whole heart, soul and strength.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Here's an exapmple of the very reasonable and balnaced counsel given regarding a university education: "g89 5/8 p. 14 What Career Should I Choose?
Employment prospects and educational systems vary from place to place. Youths have different abilities and inclinations. And while a career in the Christian ministry is recommended as being beneficial, it is still a matter of personal choice....
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
You and your parents must thus carefully weigh all factors involved in deciding how much education is right for you. Each one must carry his own load in making such decisions.—Galatians 6:5.
If, for example, your parents insist that you attend a university, you have no choice but to obey them as long as you are living under their supervision. (Ephesians 6:1-3) Perhaps you can continue living at home and avoid getting caught up in the university scene...
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Be selective in your choice of courses, for example, focusing on learning job skills rather than worldly philosophies. Guard your associations. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Keep yourself spiritually strong by meeting attendance, field service, and personal study. Some youths who have been obliged to attend university have even managed to pioneer by choosing a schedule of courses that made that possible...
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Choose your career carefully and prayerfully, so that it not only will bring personal happiness but will enable you to store up treasures in heaven.—Matthew 6:20.
Sorry for the very long response but I feel you were sincere in your question, and therefore deserved a detailed response.
I harbor no illusions that my reply will affect your view in any significant way, you've chosen to nurse a negative view of JW's, and no one can change that but you.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Thank you Shibboleth... that is a little less bombastic.
So, learning a trade or skill to carry you through life IS encouraged.. learning worldly philosphies is discouraged.
Excellent.. no pressure on the Kids at all really. You can learn and devote yourself to full time service, as you can work and do the same... provided you can fend for yourself financially without spongeing on the rest of the congregation.
A much better (and refreshing) approach. Many thanks for clarifying.
beroeanman 3 years ago
"beroeanman" ... This response including my comment about presumed sincerity, was directed to crosscheck, .. Not you... You already know this, .. Or at least, you should.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
But why should I not applaud you for clarifying the situation? There are numerous videos here showing a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses... apparently dissuading youth from pursuing higher education.
You have put this in context, and are correct.. so, thank you
beroeanman 3 years ago
You're welcome ...
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Shibb,
Thanks for taking the time to post that. Just so I understand, you do agree that a ban on higher education is biblical... correct?
And if you would allow anther question. It seems that in the article that the WT demonized education. If this magazine is meant for the general public (as opposed to the study edition), do you think the public understands the WT position as you described it from what was printed in this edition?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Where does this word "ban" come from? Have you ever seen anything indicating a ban in the publications of JW's? The article clearly said, the decision to attend a University is a "personal" choice, .... There are no "bans", .. other than what an individual Christian may decide on for himself.
However, to answer your question, .. No, I don't agree that a "ban" on higher education is Biblical.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
It's interesting that you choose to use the word, "demonize" when referring to the comments from Awake magazine.
Why is that?
The comments I posted were copied and pasted from the May 8th, 1989 Awake, pg. 14... (No study edition existed at that time, and still doesn't for the Awake).
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I honestly believe that if a person/the public were to read this material without prejudice, they would clearly understand our position on this issue. Those comments are neither unclear nor ambiguous, they speak for themselves without any help from me.
Again, because you view JW's and our views askance, what I/we see as wholesome, reasonable and scriptural counsel, you see as a demonization of the issue.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I had asked a number of people to read the article that I cited ( not the Awake you cited) and then I asked them their thoughts. The reaction was the same from all. They were surprised that Higher education would be compared to things that were immoral and sometimes illegal.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
I did not use the word demonize in relation to what you wrote, sorry if I did not make that clear. I used it in reference to the WT article that I quoted in the video.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
How do you feel about the comments I copied and pasted from Awake? Do you feel that they contradict the magazine you quoted from?
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I feel like the Wt has gone back and forth on the issue a bit, sometimes harsh towards education and sometimes positive. To be blunt... a little wishy washy.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Shib, I didn't say that the WT used the word ban. I was simply looking for common ground. I am glad that we agree that a ban would be unbiblical.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Crosscheck, the context and tenor of your question and comments indicate that you see the stance of JW's as amounting to a "ban" on higher education ... Let's be honest.
My question to you is, has anything I've said or posted, including the direct comments from the WTBTS changed your views at all?
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
My guess is that those who pursue higher education will be judged as "spiritually weak."
And that others will miss out on the opportunity for higher education because their parents, well meaning as they may be, will consider education bad or dangerous based on articles like the one I cited.
While my opinion has not changed, I do appreciate your perspective on the issue.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
"because we've read the articles, we've heard the talks and know the scriptural reasons,... we also know the spirit behind this counsel."
Whose articles? Whose talks? What scriptural reasons? What exactly do you know about the spirit of this counsel?
Tavlo 3 years ago
.. in Scripture.
beroeanman 3 years ago
.. is in medicine.
I am talking about wise counsel and wisdom from above:
James chapter 3
Shalom with your brothers and with your God.
beroeanman 3 years ago
.. and if their efforts burn out, they disgard them like spent cogs in a never ending wheel.
Canon fodder for the army... and factory fodder for the Printing Corporation.
Isn't the ploy obvious?
beroeanman 3 years ago
Only when, like you, they turn into self-absorbed, pity mongers with a unquenchable thirst to blame everyone but themselves for the outcome of their chosen course.
Keep kicking, self-appointed beroeanman.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
S(h)ibboleth... I think you should change your name... If you really had wisdom from above you would refrain from such bombastic statements.
Who is apportioning blame? A whole generation of youth is being deprived of developing its god-given skills.
In the UK we have an expression "I'm all right Jack"... yup no doubt you are enjoying the opulence of a developed career and supporting your family well. Many don't have that privilege.
Please don't point the finger..my university degree..
beroeanman 3 years ago
You may still have the knowledge, but you've lost the descernment, so called beroeanman.
I could suggest a few name changes for you as well.
True Christians, as Peter said, are "temporary residents" of this system... We are those who see the dangers of a system, which has Satan for it's God, .. Yes Satan, who is misleading the ENTIRE inhabited earth..
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
There is no question, for the spirituality of a true Christian, higher education poses many risks, many of JW's know this, not only because they've read about it in the pages of the W.T, but because they've witnessed it, first hand. You cast your lot in with those who foolishly fail to recognize that true Christians refrain from using the world to the full, ... not because we fear the W.T, but because we love and fear JAH.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Rubbish... I have known more people stumble into unchristian activity because of their despair, than having a solid vocation and developing their spirituality alongside it.
Please do not persist with these insults... and I would remind you that "each one must work out his own Salvation", carry his/her own load but throw their burdens of THE LORD... Jehovah and follow the Christ who did not get baptised until he was thirty and was (probably) a skilled carpenter as well as being well versed..
beroeanman 3 years ago
Peter was married and supported his family as a fisherman... Luke was a Physician... Paul a maker of tents..
they had means to support themselves.. indeed they were "temporary residents".. but they didn't sponge off the state they lived in.. they learnt to provide and care for themselves... so your point is? Who is going to teach these skills... youth needs practical as well as spiritual help.
The family unit and ties is central to the gospel of Christ and Christian living...
beroeanman 3 years ago
Change his name.lol. beroeanman! NO children are being denied their developing god-given skills. In fact if you read scripture, which I'm beginning to think you do not, you would see clearly that parents have every right to direct thier children's education. When did it become the governments responsibility or yours to mandate or direct the education of children. Show me the constitutional directive in this regard. The Bible's clear, each parent has the responsibilty of educating their children.
nibornagrom 3 years ago
Hi Robin... are you addressing these comments to me.
Actually I chose beroeanman because after walking out of the congregation 26 years ago I am now beginning to carefully examine the scriptures again to reestablish my faith. My angst amongst the congregation then is my own.
I served 6 years as a regular pioneer and 4 years in Bethel, was told I was "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"... They were right...
beroeanman 3 years ago
Three little words "Beroeanman" ... "Get over it"!
I've seen these expressions of yours repeated at nauseum. .... "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"
Do yourself and all of us a favor...Get over it!
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Where have I overused these expressions Shibboleth? I confided in you... obviously you have broken that confidence.
I will not trust you again. And, how can I trust a man who is surfing these chat rooms against the counsel of his own Governing Body. I doubt your claim to be a serving Elder of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I am "over it"... thanks... you have finally freed me from the fear of men like you... Cheers
beroeanman 3 years ago
What confidence have I broken, seriously?
I've seen those phrases, "All heavenly and no earthly good" and to stop "spongeing off the rest of us and go and get a proper job"
posted under at least three different youtube screen names, to the comments section of various JW videos. I can only assume they all came from the same behind the scenes source, currently YOU, "BM".
In all the instances I recall, the context was the same, those big-bad JW's were so mean to me. Get over it BM!
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
Stop persecuting me ShibbolethJW.. I used the expressions as they were conveyed to me, for following the exact counsel in the video. As did TENS of thousands of others.. to their cost.
I thought you were the one that moderated the view and gave us all your wisened answer.
Follow the Christ.. learn to get to know your God... get baptised at 30, having learned a skill or a trade and grow strong in your relationship with our God and Father....
Don't complicate it with man made philosophy.
beroeanman 3 years ago
I'm sorry to seem harsh in my responses to you beroeanman, but there are many of us who've endured various slights and insults over the years, soame at the hands of our own brothers. And I know how it hurts, but as Pauls said,(Romans 8:38-39)"For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers 39 nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Gods love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I hear you... we are still talking about the same "forked-tongue" counsel 25 years on. The issue, you have clarified. Perhaps that needs to come from the platform.
I have only presented the devestation of the effects of poor advice, counsel and shepherding. Perhaps we can all learn.
There is a time for everything under the Sun.. All the best
beroeanman 3 years ago
The counsel has been good, the application has sometimes been wanting... BM, I just honestly feel that your holding on to, and perhaps nursing your hurt feelings will ultimately be to your detriment, and don't want to see that, I believe you have a good heart... That's why I feel you must get beyong the insensitive way you were treated in the past and move forward... Be at peace BM, and return to your brothers.
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I know your love for God and faith in Christ is intact, but I believe the God of peace is using an organization today to get the good news preached to the entire inhabited earth before the end comes. I think you and I agree, this is not being done in the realm of Christendom, but by JW's.
JW's are not perfect, but as a group, they do exhibit the kind of submission to God's will, as the result of genuine humility, which marks them as true Christians. Why allow yourself to be separated from that?
ShibbolethJW 3 years ago
I will come back when I see wise counsel that builds futures and families... whether this system is about to expire or continues for centuries more.
The whole issue needs clarification, and spelling out for the rank and file.
Do I hear the expression "Count the cost" before you build your tower.. I put it to you that there are HUNDREDS of thousands of your brothers and sisters that would be back if they didn't feel so let down.
And You know it...
beroeanman 3 years ago
.. The expressions are also posted to videos on exactly the same subject which have been presented by several videos showing the same address in Monza (Italy) by a member of the Governing Body.
So, the message is the same..
To you, I wrote, in confidence my personal story. Do you want me to publish this before you betray me totally?
Keep the counsel broad and not personal and you won't keep provoking people, Shib.
So, You Get Over It too, and let people have freedom of expression.
beroeanman 3 years ago
"I'm All Right Jack."!! Starring......Peter Sellers, no? One of his very early movies!!
JWinCT 3 years ago
You knocked on my door for some reason CT? Can I help you?
beroeanman 3 years ago
Riddle me this Batman: Why is there doctors who are witnesses? Why does the Watchtower have it's own lawyers? Funny..but I don't think they got their degree from a cracker jack box!
Yeah, they preach and preach not to go to college, but when the Society is in a real jam with a blood issue or a legal issue, who do they turn to? That's right folks...their own doctors and lawyers...WHO WENT TO COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mind control..Mind Control..Mind control
muzikman74 3 years ago 4
Excellent point muzikman74, and very true!
Shazoolo 3 years ago 2
I glad you acknowledge that witnesses aren't boobs.
Robin
nibornagrom 3 years ago
Idiot.
JWinCT 3 years ago
Yup... you are right muzikman.. and they cannot see that when their young fall into despair and can't earn enough to see them through life.. it is their own short sighted counsel that is causing it.
The only thing it generates is a series of official articles on the evils of anti depressants and how you can kicked out if you are hooked on them!
Besides how about targetting the well healed and settled in retirement to serve full time?
They want the energy of youth...
beroeanman 3 years ago
MAN you are so off on this comment. Most Witnesses who devote their lives to full time service are granted by God with lives full and rich in travel and experience. Their education is provided in the experience of life among the many traditions and cultures they meet and embrace everyday. You are jealous of their experience. If only you could devout yourself to such selfless service then maybe you could experience their level of contentment. Ahhhhhhhh!
Robin
nibornagrom 3 years ago
Excellent argument!
TiredOfjwHypocrites 3 years ago
You nailed it. Great vid.
JBSauce 3 years ago
I can't tell you how exciting it is to know that someone who apparently has never been in the cancer understands the madness those of us who were raised in it, endured.
Thank you for posting this video. Talk to as many JayDub kids as you possibly can.
Bring_the_Light
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
I have a Bachelors of Science in Chemical Engineering, BTW :oP I only found out many years later that my dad was pressured to pressure me otherwise, and he never did. I love my dad. :oP
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
Bachelors, wow. Man it doesn't matter what the degree is, what are you doing with your life?
nibornagrom 3 years ago
Well, I've got a great career as an environmental consultant and everything, but recently I've discovered my real calling. Speaking out against the Watchtower Babble and Crap Society !! Wee.
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
If you ae an environmental consultant BrightLight.. be sensible and Keep it Clean, eh? LOL
There is a positive use for Sewage Farms... they clean up our mess... and their are Scientists behind them with our best Health in mind.
Despite it all... The Organisation you taunt has produced a remarkably clean and wholesome people. I'm talking Refinement here not releasing Bubonic plague on the world.
Lighten up and see the good... but, agreed, stand up for reform for what is right.
Cheers
beroeanman 3 years ago
LOL, please trust me you have no idea what you're talking about when you suggest "reform". How do you put an organization that was created by a quack and advanced by a sociopath "back on track". There is no "on track" for JW world. The reason the religion exists, is a lie. If you want to be a Christian, pick any flavor you like, they have far more legitimacy than the JW scam.
The religion has produced a few clean wholesome people, uncountable suicides, narcissistic personalities,
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
(continued from below), emotional terror to millions, failed marriages, sick relationships, powerful liars, financial ruin, alienation...
The biggest product of the JW organization is Athiests. Kingdom Halls should be taxed as factories, they manufacture MILLIONS of Athiests. If you are a Christian and really had perspective on "the Truth", you would not lend any legitimacy to the cult.
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
That'll be a no vote from you then BringtheLight..
I associated for 20 years.. and the vast majority were wonderful people.
Where did you attend the meetings... WALL STREET? LOL
I am not good enough to live up to their high standards at the moment.. but I still have not changed my opinion of a wonderful people.
How sad your congregation fell apart.. as they say in the world of environmental consultancy..
S**t happens, eh?
Best wishes
beroeanman 3 years ago
Stalin made some very unselfish and equality-minded people. I'm not very impressed with them either.
Its a facade. Scratch the surface and it smells pretty bad. I don't know ANY JW's I grew up with that I would consider to be "wonderful people". You need to live amongst them awhile before you see the dirt hidden just under the rug.
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
What a sad individual you are BrightLight.. I have just come off the phone from my Father who reported the death of an Elders wife through the most painful form of cancer.. He, is wife and the children are pillars of the community... I have just offered a prayer.
I grew up with and associated with a very loving congregation..
You are sadly wrong and very warped..
Best wishes in the hope your personal peace with override your hate.
Travel the road to Damascus before it is too late!
beroeanman 3 years ago
Ever heard the saying "When your hope rests on a plagarism of the Egyptian God Rah and your community rests on cult mind control.... one shouldn't throw stones?
If not, its a similar lesson like "judge not lest thee be judged". :oP Mr. Crazypants.
BringtheLight1980 3 years ago
Crosscheck:I do apologize that your presentation has deteriorated into a personal attack. I think the answers Shib has given gives a moderating view and you have been gracious in your post and ruminations.
In the UK we have laws against those who incite to hatred and promote religious, homophobic and xenophobic speeech.
The word Cult is being banded to liberally and taken way out of context by BringtheLight who quite obviously doesn't know the origin of the word. Let good people flourish
beroeanman 3 years ago