HEALTH CARE COMMERCIAL - www.RichardAberdeen.com

[flobrew]

Oh yeah you're right. let the government solve all your problems. Last time I went to the DMV, it was misery. I can look forward to more of the same with Obamacare, cause the government takes such good care of us folks, why should I take care of myself. You know I should dissolve my company and give away all my property, not hire anyone, because the government will take care of all my needs anyway. I promise that is what I'll do. Why bother otherwise?

[richardaberdeen]

@flobrew Oh yeah, like the 50 million Americans with zero health care and the 100 million more with grossly inadequate health care are better off than the citizens of France, Japan and The Netherlands, where everyone has excellent health care for a fraction of what we pay for inferior care here. Yeah, sure !!!

[flobrew]

Have you ever been to France? I've traveled extensively in Europe, and let me tell you, when we got sick over there, we came home! There was no "excellent health care." It was a cattle call for patients. I've been to charity hospital for care here in the U.S. and I can say that was better than some of the places that were available in Europe. Just look at Greece's situation if you want to talk about more government intrusion.

[richardaberdeen]

Every health care system in the world has it's problems and it's horror stories. On the other hand, I've heard people from France say they are very happy with their health care system and wouldn't live in the U.S. for any reason. Which is better: A) Guaranteed health care that has problems. B) No health care. At least 50,000 people die annually in the U.S. because of lack of health care. I've been to the funeral of a family who lost a good husband because they couldn't afford health care.

[flobrew]

I'm sorry to hear that, truly, but, they couldn't get Medicare?

[richardaberdeen]

I have a friend here in Nashville who is from The Netherlands. I had two friends in another state who were from Sweden. And I have heard many people from Japan, the UK and even Canada, one of the worst government run systems, say how much better their systems are than ours. Europeans in general believe Americans are ingnorant and crazy for allowing private insurance companies to be involved with health care. And I agree.

[flobrew]

That's wonderful that they like it so much. As I said, I have been there myself and I can honestly say "no thanks." I have been to charity hospitals here, and "private" hospitals in UK...I'll take US charity. What innovations have been made in medicine in those countries? And BTW.. Why do the Canadian government officials come to Miami to have operations?

[richardaberdeen]

I had two friends when I was working in construction who were near retirement age and they planned to move back to Sweden as soon as they retired. They both said the health care was significantly better than they had received here and, the had good union insurance. Another friend of mine had an accident when he was traveling in France and the hospital took him in, gave him care that would have cost many thousands of dollars here and he paid zero and he is not even a French citizen.

[flobrew]

You have a lot of friends. I only have personal experiences that I witnessed with my own eyes.

[richardaberdeen]

Well, I've been a homeless and health care advocate for a long time and that tends to open your eyes. Take for example, a friend of mine who is a quadriplegic. He was well-adujsted considering his condition until the State of Tennessee decided to cut off his in home nursing care, which he can't survive without because he is on a ventilator. A judge ordered he be put in Vanderbilt hospital where he remained 11 months as if he were in prision.

[richardaberdeen]

He is now back in Vanderbilt having once again having lost his inhome care. He would have died long ago, except a liberal judge ordered the state to place him in Vanderbilt. He was much luckier than many of the estimated 50K Americans who die annually from lack of health care. Consider the uproar when 3000 Americans died during the 9/11 attacks, yet that is nothing compared to what we lose every year because we have a for-profit system.

[flobrew]

50,000 poeple die whether they have health care or not. I do feel for these people. I think about this a lot (who doesn't these days?) and I wish I wasn't taxed so much so that I could give to charities that are designed to deal with these folks that need care. Private charities consistently outdo government at every turn. If we are going to help we need to do so responsibly and efficiently. The government has proven in the past 200 years that they are neither.

[richardaberdeen]

You seem like a caring enough person, based on your responses, but I don't think you really have a clue how many millions of Americans suffer daily from lack of medication they can't afford. Many Americans with catastrophic diseases choose between eating and buying theri medicine; another friend of mine who is a paraplegic (not nearly as bad off as a quadriplegic) lost his pain medication and that is the same as torturing someone, to take pain medication away from a paraplegic.

[richardaberdeen]

Like I said, ever large medical system has it's horror stories and it's good stories. But international statistics rank the U.S. 37th in overall care, near the bottom of all developed nations, our health care costs 1/3 more than the 2nd most expensive system and twice as much as Japan, one of the best systems. And yet, while everyone is covered in Europe, half our population either has zero health care or highly inadequate high-dedictuble plans that keep them from preventive care.

[flobrew]

And how do you propose to pay for all of this wonderfulness? France supposedly has one of the "best" HC systems. They also take over 40% of their GDP in taxes, have an unemployment rate of 23% in people aged 15-24, and are projected to have a debt load of 60% by 2012.French workers pay 19% of earnings in taxes for Health insurance, and more than 90% purchase complimentary private insurance. Ave. wait for a mammogram in Italy is 70 days.Sorry, might work for them but not what I want for my family

[richardaberdeen]

France currently pays 10% of their GDP for healthcare, Japan pays 8% and we pay 16%, yet they cover all of their citizens and even visitiors and we can't even cover half of our adequately. It is ludicrous to try and pretend private health care is a better option. EVERY NATION IN EUROPE AND THE REST OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD HAS A BETTER AND MORE COMPREHENSIVE SYSTEM THAN WE DO HERE. EVERY ONE, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

[flobrew]

They are also on the verge of collapse in Europe. 40% in taxes! And as I said, 90% of French workers buy private insurance! Have you checked the news coming from Greece or Spain lately? We are not in an economic situation to even CONSIDER this type of government growth. It is ludicrous. And it's 19% earnings for a French worker for HC, 40% total taxation. They can't sustain it and we can't either. Look, I wish we lived in this utopia but we don't. You get what you pay for (or what others do.)

[richardaberdeen]

Most people here pay almost as high of taxes as they do in Europe, yet we get a lot less in return for our taxes than they do. When you add up state, federal, gasoline, sales, various fees and other taxes, our taxes are very high--it is just that our so-called "federal" tax is lower than theirs. But in France, they get a minimum of 6 weeks paid vacation, free child care, dental, health, vision, free nanny care, low or free college and all kinds of things we don't get and all are covered.

[richardaberdeen]

Since I've lived in Tennessee in the past seven years, over 250,000 people have lost their health care, many of them very poor with catastrophic diseases. A great many more have had pain and other necessary medications cut way back and many are suffering the same as if they were literally being tortured. Many millions of Americans are in the same boat; many choose daily between food and medicine and medical bills are the #1 reason families are becoming homeless; #1 reason for mortgage defaults

[richardaberdeen]

And also, most European nations were doing pretty good until Junior Bush took office. They have steadily eroded since then and in particular since the banking collapse here. That is why they are on the verge of collapse, because of our own stupid deregulation of the banking system, which is bankrupting the entire world. Both the UK and Italy are on the verge of national default, which has never happened before, not even during or after WWII.

[flobrew]

Deregulation?? They were ordered by (Dem controlled) congress to accept risky ventures. This was a problem created BY government intrusion. No bank left to their own devices would have knowingly placed themselves into the real estate game knowing there would be no buyers. I know these countries are on the verge because of their own socialist policies. This is the model you want us to follow? UK also voted in a PM at that time that wanted to increase socialist policies. You can't blame Bush.

[richardaberdeen]

That's entirely wrong. Apparently you haven't been reading the news. The people in charge of banks were so enamored over their own greed, they ran their own companies into the ground. There is overwhelming evidence of this from every direction, from the Wall Street Journal (conservative) to 60 Minutes (moderate) to Keith Olbermann (liberal). The banks screwed everybody, including their own children, just like in the first depression. No regulation = the ruin or our economy from greed.

[flobrew]

You keep saying "no regulation." That's simply not true. They have been regulated for some time now, (especially in real estate.) Banks had no probs. They knew the govt was there to bail them out! This was a failure of the socialistic, government-backed system. Left to their own devices (meaning left to invest their own damn money instead of leaning on our tax dollars) they never would have given a mortgage to a person with a 600 credit score! Money keeps you honest, govt. doesn't.

[richardaberdeen]

And that's just the point. Without regulation, you don't get what you pay for, you get screwed. Before regulation, we got bad meat and bogus medicines, no child labor or worker safety rules at all and now with private healthcare, we don't get we we pay for at all. If we get an expensive problem, they drop us, throw us under the bus. That is the end result of ALL unregulated capitalism--And always will be. Unregulated capitalism is human greed set free without morals, rules or restraint.

[flobrew]

Yeah . Because we were better off when the government ran the airlines. The prices were what? 3x as much and you had no choice of airline. Now we have competition and can shop online for a $29 seat that includes meal and a headset. If you don't want to stop in Dallas, you can pay more for the luxury. You have a strange idea about capitalism. A vendor doesn't have to like the color of my skin or mannerisms, he does like my money. And if not, he knows his competitor will. Money is freedom friend.

[richardaberdeen]

The airlines have always been highly regulated. Imagine how many crashes there were no air traffic control operaters and if the airlines weren't forced by law to conduct regular inspection of their planes. There is wise regulation, there is unwise regulation, but no regulation = total chaos and disintegration of society, which is what we are going through now due to very unwise de-regulation of the banks. The banks were solid from FDR thru Reagan and then began to fail, first S&L, then others

[flobrew]

@richardaberdeen I worked for an airline for years. They were all deregulated in the early 80's so I don't know what that has to do with anything. There is a difference between oversight and regulation.

[richardaberdeen]

Oversight means a government watchdog agency that supposedly watches out for citizens. Regulation is any form of rule that a government makes that business must abide by. For example, the FCC is an "oversight" entity set up to insure that media regulations are followed. Rules that prevent companies from hiring children, enforce worker safety laws, prevent bogus placebos being mixed in with regular pills and simllar are all forms of regulation, as are rules safety rules for airlines.

[richardaberdeen]

When the media says, "banks have been deregulated since Reagan forward" this does not mean they have been entirely deregulated and the same is true regarding the airlines. What it means that some previous regulations have been lifted. The term "dereglation" in this sense means to loosen or remove rules that formerly applied. If the airlines or the banks were entirely deregulated, there would utter chaos.

[flobrew]

@richardaberdeen  I have dgrees in history and political science. I don't rely on "the media" for my info. You basically just told me what I just said, so I don't get your point.

[richardaberdeen]

I was responding to your point. We seem to be talking apples and oranges. You said "there is a difference between oversignt and regulation". I was pointing out I am not talking about "oversight". Every response I made here is in regards to regulation. You apparently didn't understand that, otherwise you would not have made the statement. My point remains, that without regulation, there is nothing but moral, economic and actual chaos. Anyone who has picked up a history book knows that.

[richardaberdeen]

And, degrees or lack of degrees have no relevance in terms of what is true and what is false. It is historically false to pretend that deregulating the banks is a good idea. We had a Great Depression because the banks were deregulated. Since FDR, we had a very stable banking system until Reagan began deregulating them again. Then Savings & Loans defaulted, then a series of small banks in the 90's and now major banks were bailed out to avoid defaulting. Those are facts of American hsitory.

[richardaberdeen]

Whether or not you have a degree in history does not change the established facts that prior to regulating Wall Street and the banks, there was a major depression. And, after the banks and Wall Street was regulated, our economy became much more stable. Wars such as Vietnam helped to destablize it but it remained basically stable until Reagan began a series of significant deregulation, which Bush, Clinton and Bush Junior continued, which resulted in the present economic mess we're in.

[richardaberdeen]

There are other factors that influence the stability of our economy, among them the horrendous cost of the Vietnam War, which is WHY the economy was bad under Carter and now the Cost of Iraq is likewise adding to our pile of economic misery. I don't care how many degrees someone has in science, history or anything else. Degrees have no relevancy to what is true and, what is not true.

[richardaberdeen]

As for nobody being able to "get it", I suppose you don't include the 50 million Americans who have ZERO health care and the 120 million more who have highly inadequate care. WHAT CHOICE DO THEY HAVE? Fox Noise and Republican whacko machine = Total Bullshit.

[flobrew]

@richardaberdeen in a word: Medicare.

[mustang607]

"...will reconcile all conflicts. It will protect the property of the rich and give a greater share to the poor. It will cut down the burden of your taxes and provide you with more government benefits. It will lower prices and raise wages. It will give more freedom to the individual and strengthen the bonds of collective obligations. It will combine the efficiency of free enterprise with the generosity of a planned economy."

- The so called plan preached to the country, in Atlas Shrugged

[richardaberdeen]

Anyone who opposes a single-payer universal health care system like every half-way sane nation on the planet has is ignoring the known medical facts of contagious diseases and as such, is against their own children and own flesh and blood.

[tealmarlin]

Im for the Single Payer system, Im pro Life, not pro death. Im living in a country right now that has a single payer system, and I wish that America would adopt the idea. I Belive it will happen in time.

[richardaberdeen]

Well said. The United States is still living in the medical Dark Ages. Come to think of it, the half of our population supporting the conservative agenda live in the DARK, PERIOD.

[richardaberdeen]

Yeah, like it is logical to believe that insurance companies, pocketing one-third of the entire money spent on health care, without providing anything in return, will somehow produce a less expensive and better option than singley-payer, even though we already pay 1/3 more for heatlh care than any other nation, yet we rank 37th in actual global health. Go figure, says Atlas, as he shrugs in dismay...