I've debated over and over w/ppl who refuse to believe tht we have to be saved FIRST before we will believe in Christ. They just don't want to hear it. The best way I've found to debate this subject is by quoting 1Cor12:3 and then Jhn3:15-16 . You can clearly read that 1Cor12:3 comes BEFORE Jhn3:15-16 because we can't believe in Christ UNTIL we receive the Holy Ghost. Another example is to quote Jhn6:44 THEN Jhn6:35. No man can come unless the Father draws him, and whosoever comes will be saved.
we are all pelagians at heart- our express doctrines make no difference. If we force ourtselves to do "good works" then we are legalists then we are pelagians
I like this video. Is has redefined semi-pelagianism more for me. I tend to believe in semi-pelagianism. No original sin, free will and grace for repentance for "personal sins". Adam and Eve sin seems more mythological. They are even found in the Tale of Gilgamesh which predates the bible. Their existence could have been fabricated. Adam and Eve contradicts the the Book of John where it reads Jesus was the light of men in the world not adam.
@aba37 Predates the bible? The bible cannon is a compilation of books written over many centuries, it isn't a single revelation like the Quran or Book of Mormon. The oldest Sumerian poems date to 2150 BC, the Exodus is estimated at 1200 BC, so we have some way to go back to Adam and Eve. If they are the mother and father of all living, then it would be normal to have their story in your history or mythology.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
Call me crazy (or a heretic), but I think what John is saying here is that if we say we have no sin, then we are deceiving ourselves and the truth isn't in us.
@payn3a91 Not gonna call you crazy but... what he is saying isn't that we always have sin, in fact he explains clearly that if we confess/repent our sins God will forgive us and cleanse us (at this point we would be clean and blameless before him). However we have all sinned and if we say we haven't then we deceive ourselves...
It means the same as the beginning of verse 10. If we claim not to have sinned (as in ever). 8&10 both address our claim and then how they relate to 8-ourselves, 10-God
They do speak "for themselves." But someone has to read them or hear them... so not literally.
I'll just ask you to do the same if you're a Calvinist or wish to defend this as reformed theology---read the writings of the first 300 years of the church. No Calvinist would make a bold claim that their theology is the correct one that the original Apostles taught without asserting that history should support it, yet they're spoken against for the first 300 years of the church.
Your still committing fallacy my friend. Saying "its heresy because its heresy" doesn't prove that it is heresy. I hope your talking about the Council of Nicene that congressed at 325 AD? I actually have the creed on hand on my iphone, if you would like to demonstrate to me out of the creed that contradicts reformed theology please do so- but I will direct you back to what scripture say not what I think.
I said it was heresy because it was called that from the beginning of the Church, immediately after Christ's death, by a number of writings and early church fathers. It's also heresy according to Scripture, but it's a little difficult to do this over youtube comments. I only point consistent Calvinists, who would have to argue their position is Biblical and historical---they need proof, and the proof is not in the writings. Try WAAAY before the Councils, I said Ante-Nicean
Hey, I don't want to misrepresent your comment- but allow me to ask you a few questions.
"It was heresy because it was called that from the beginning of the Church"- What?
again if you would like to demonstrate to me why you think something is heresy Then let me hear your case... remember just because you saying thing is heresy doesn't make it heresy- please demonstrate how it is so. if you want to do one topic at a time we can do so. thanks
All 5 points of Calvinism are heresy. And they all depend on one another, so if one falls they all fall. They are all semi-Gnostic in origin. I have one two-part video of the Early Church versus Calvin's Preservation of the Saints.. it's a lot of reading, but it's quite clear-I'd rather point you to that. You can message me if you'd like, I have open messaging after you've watched it. If you can provide an opposing view in Ante-Nicean church history to that video, show me.
Ok, from your say so of Calvinism its heresy. However I'm not getting any sold evidence of your assertions. I'm going to keep repeating myself until we can create a serious discussion on a topic.
did you know that the 5 points of Calvinism was a response to the heresy of the 5 points of Arminanism?
now, you say that the 5 points is heresy- could you tell me how?
I'm not starting a debate here.. I've debated this before and it won't get anywhere. I'm not going to go to my videos, and then come back and copy every quote from every early church father and quote it back to this or Scripture.
I had read about the 5 points being in response, but--I don't support Arminius either. The same claim still remains, watch the 2 part video, see if you can provide opposition in Ante-Nicean history, I've not been shown anything contrary by anyone.
I'm sorry, but If your not willing to demonstrate your assertions in a public debate then I don't see how you can continue to raise the issue if you can't prove it.
I'm going to ask you again.
Where in the 5 points of Calvinism teaches heresy.
It would be fair to give a presentation of how these things were heresy.
No I'm not Catholic, I don't really hold to any denomination... lol... sorry that is funny...
Ezekiel 18 is a clear refutation of Total Depravity, born sinful, Adam's posterity inherit Adam's sin(as if sin is physically able to be inherited). All Scriptures used to support it are proof-texts, the usual Ephesians 2, Psalm 51:5, and 58:3, and Romans 5. Sin is by definition "to miss the mark," or according to John "transgression of the law." Jesus Christ is from the...
Ok you said EZekiel 18 is a "clear" refutation of Total depravity. I don't see how this text refutes anything of Total depravity- This text is speaks of God telling the children of Israel not to use a "proverb" when dealing with their forefathers because they are using this "proverb" as an excuse to not carry on as God's chosen people (vs 3). I think a lot of people have overlooked this scripture without understanding its context. before you disprove TD, could you tell me what it is?
@theembracedofgod ...seed of Adam, as is clearly laid out from the beginning of Scripture in Genesis (enmity between woman's seed and the serpent), and multiple times it's shown through out Scripture*seed of David, seed of Abraham), especially the "Son of Man"--claiming that Jesus was a true human being born of a virgin, from Mary's womb---if TD is correct, Jesus was a sinner, such heresy. If you claim anything otherwise, He wouldn't have been human, and then I would label you semi-gnostic.
Ok, I'd love to respond to all of your assertions but let us deal with what you have given from the start shall we?
I'd like to deal with one issue at a time as you raise them for clarification... because when you go off on tangents then thats when confusion comes in and usually misconceptions are easy to make.
This is just one point that falls out under consistency, and it has no bearing in the early church or Scripture, except in light of the heretics. I already told you though, I'm not going to get into a full on debate. I have videos, and favorites, and have already believed many of the lies of Calvinism within my past of being Christian. This will be my last reply on this, no matter if you reply or not. God Bless. Remember if one point falls, they all fall.
"it has no bearing in the early church or scripture" - I'd love to know what your talking about and why it is so- but your still committing the fallacy of "bias/subjective opinion"
I'm not asking for a full debate- I'm just asking to prove at least one of your assertions so it doesn't look like your "trolling"videos in ignorance. I'm actually helping you out here.
you gave me a couple of scriptures- I've already addressed one- I"m just waiting for a rebuttal.
Lane... repent of your false semi-Gnostic gospel and heresy. It's odd that you would call Pelagius a heretic when his views align much more with that of the Ante-Nicean church than does the former Gnostic Augustine... the Early church would call you the heretics, because you interpret the Bible just like the fatalistic Gnostics. If you have the free will to do so, read the early church writings prior to Augustine... you stand in contrast with the first 300 years of the church
@droptozro Well said Bro', I noted that laneCH didn't have an answer to your comment, that's because him and the rest are nothing more than egotistical, selfriious, religious nutters, you put him down very nicely.
Dont get me wrong though, I don't think Pelagius was completely correct either. It's more of a balance between these two leaning more towards Pelagius that I read in Scripture.
It's not hard to see it in history though, since Augustine was a former Gnostic that just didn't deplete all his former views, Luther took some of his stuff from Augustine, and Calvin got some of his doctrines from Augustine... so it's traced back to semi-Gnosticism easily.
@droptozro Thanks for replying, I'm just so sick of these ego driven, selfrightious,I'm loved by God more than YOU types they make me just want to vomit.
Why do people want to complicate the Gospel eh ?
All you need is the simplicity that is in Christ Rom 10 - 9:10 and don't add anything to it !
If the wages of sin are death, and some babies are born stillborn or die very young or even die in the womb does that not prove that pelagianism is not correct?!
Jesus did not taste death, because he was without sin; therefore, it is safe to conclude that the Bible is correct in saying that we have inherited the sin of Adam.
Original sin seems to be related to Pauline doctrine "the law of sin and death" in Romans 8 but Christ the "spirit of life" sets us free from this inheritance from Adam. Jesus is the second Adam (second son of God) in 1Cor 15:45. It also says we are the image of the man of dust and so Adams children (not God's) until we are saved that is.
Original sin seems to be related to Pauline doctrine "the law of sin and death" in Romans 8 but Christ the "spirit of life" sets us free from this inheritance from Adam. Jesus is the second Adam (second son of God) in 1Cor 15:45. It also says we are the image of the man of dust and so Adams children (not God's) until we are saved that is.
Sin is always a choice and action. Not a physical state. We are commanded to turn from our actions not our physical make up. If this were true we would have an excuse before God. Sin is always doing evil and knowing what we have done.
Amazing this heresy. We are hell bound because of how we are born? Satan, adam and the angels are understood to have this inexcusable sin and no one else? There is no biblical strength to this theology. Its truly satanic.
So you would contend that we are sinful because we sin - instead of we sin because we are sinful- that if we just stop sinning (making wrong choices) we will cease being sinful? That theological stance, my friend, is truly Satanic.
Yes, all, every human being on Earth is born with a willingness to chose SIN, just as Adam did, and they DO, because NO GOOD dwells in the Flesh! Paul says, "For I know that NOTHING good dwells in me, that is, in my FLESH; for the WILLING (to do good) is present in me, but the DOING of the good is NOT." Rom. 7:18. Paul says that Man cannot do anything GOOD, but that Man DOES have a willingness to do it, thus refuting the State of TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
Pelagius(from my understanding) was no a heretic by two councils until Augustine's gnostic councils denounced him.... sorry, LaneCh, if you think you have sound doctrine--you will research it and see it's origins in Gnosticism... not in the Early Church, especially since Augustine was a former Manichean(sp?)... I pray you guys can figure out this, it hurts the body to have false doctrines. God Bless
See, religion interprets God as a strict authoritative and terrifying figure, if your god is my god, i should have been terrified. Correct yourselves before correcting others, and criticize yourself before you criticize other doenominations. Because of religion there is DIVISION, DISUNITY... and even chaos. There is only one God, which transcends every name and transcends everything in this transient universe, even transcending his title as God. Because God reveals himself in every religion.
@gothicworld54 The only way you can claim to see God in every religion is to set yourself up at a position higher than all others, where you have been able to reconcile everyone else because of your own wisdom. All the blind men touch different parts of an elephant, but you, you claim, are the only man who can see.
On what basis do you make such an arrogant claim, and DIVIDE yourself from people of all religions in superiority?
@Dovieandi23 Amen friend! That's almost exactly what I said. To my mind, there is no "one true way" so called, only many paths, and until we die we cannot know if ANY of them are the right one. As John Godfrey Saxe wrote "Twas five wise men of Hindustan, of learning much inclined, they went to see the Elephant, though all of them were BLIND! So oft in theologic wars,
You claim that the unpadonable sin is rejecting Jesus,but the Bible teaches it was attributing the things of God to SATAN,isn't this true?Also,when do you believe that your name was written in the Lamb's book of life?
No, it isn't true. How many scriptures talk about the blood of Jesus cleansing us from ALL sin, all sin would include every sin you can imagine. The only sins it cannot cleanse are the sins of the impenitent. Try to make sure your beliefs square with the entire Bible, will ya? Have you ever asked someone while leading them to Christ if they ever happened to attribute the things of God to Satan, and then tell them the reason you're asking is because God cannot pardon that sin? Silliness.
That is what specifically happened when the unpardonable sin was mentioned,the pharisees were claiming that Jesus was under Satan's power,it was this sin called the unpardinable sin.
If any Satanist becomes a Christian,it is because God called him to be one.God chose who He would save before time began.We are commanded,as Christians ,to preach the gospel to every creature because we don't know who the CHOSEN are,it is the power of the Gospel,that brings people to the Lord,through the coviction of the HOLY SPIRIT.Jesus is not a weak beggar of souls,He is a Mighty Savior.Believe me,God will save all that He intends to save.
Leaving your tangent aside about who will be saved, then you admit that a Satanist, who by definition attributes the work of God to Satan (and therefore commits the unpardonable sin) can be saved and his "unpardonable sin" pardoned.
Go back to the question of the unpardonable sin and deal with it. Face it, and tell me how a Satanist could be pardoned for committing the unpardonable sin before we talk about God choosing who would be saved. If God chooses who must be saved, then according to your understanding of the unpardonable sin, he would not choose someone who commits a sin he says in his book he shall not pardon. So go back to the unpardonable sin and stop dancing around it.
I will deal with each question in turn, but I will not have you skip over any question without your giving a reasonable rebuttal to a question which I consider I have dealt with it conclusively. Reconcile God's pardoning of a moral agent guilty of committing the unpardonable sin.
Jesus was speaking in a particular context.He was speaking about those particular pharasees who KNEW that Jesus came from God,as Nicodemus had admitted,that NO ONE could do the things that Jesus did except He be from God,but they did not want to admit or bow down to Jesus ,even though there was NO DOUBT in their own minds.Instead they chose to say Jesus worked through the power of Satan.The 2nd psalms mirrors this same senario.Hope it helped.
So then that scripture applies ONLY to those particular Pharisees? Is not the sin of unbelief the only sin that God cannot forgive? Could unbelief then not be called unpardonable?
The thing is,those pharasees were not unbelievers,in the truth vs falsehood sense,they knew that Jesus came from God,as backed up by Nicodemus,but they did not want to lose their power over the people.They chose to keep their Earthly power,but lose their very soul.
If someone knows beyond any doubt that Jesus is God and their only hope for salvation and then they claim that Jesus is evil,sure.I'd say that God has not chosen to save them.
The Bible plainly teaches that there are those people who have no doubt about who Jesus is,that will die and be lost.Man does exactly what he chooses to do in his own heart,so he is 100% accountable,but he can only come to God,if God makes him born again.
The pharasees were held to a higher standard than the laymen,because they knew the scriptures.People who preach and teach today are held to this same standard,so be careful.Those lost ones,who say LORD ,LORD,that Jesus spoke of,sounded like they were preachers or teachers by the way they spoke of the works that they performed.These probably held high positions and had convinced themselves that they were righteous,they didn't sound like someone who had just had a death bed salvation experience.
Alright then, this is the end of it, this is the flaw in your doctrine:
Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Pharisees DID NOT KNOW beyond any doubt that Jesus was God, that would be to set aside faith. You don't have faith that you own a car, you know you do. After all, the disciples also cast out demons---should the Pharisees have thought they were all saviors? Not only the disciples cast out demons but others who appropriated Jesus' name.
You're right,lost people can cast out demons because of the power in the name of Jesus,however Nicodemus made it clear,that they ,the pharasees,knew that no one could do the things that Jesus did except they be from God,but in their own lust to keep their power,they chose to say that Jesus' power came from Satan.Faith and repentance are both gifts from God.We can have all the head knowledge of Jesus possible,but without being a new creation in Christ,we are still lost.
Man is like a car that's in gear and the excelarators stuck wide open,ready to drive into sin as fast as we can go.God must keep our brakes on,for the most part or we would crash and burn many times over.The way that God hardens our heart is by taking the brakes off,he doesn't have to push the gas.
LOL... just call Pelagius a heretic, so you don't have to actually think about what he said... I'll take Pelagius over Augustine, Luther, Calvin and each and every pope anyday.
In your opinion then,man's will ultimately overides God's will,because what you are saing is,God calls a man to Jesus,but he doesn't have to come.The Greek word for "draw" means to drag,overcome all resistence,bring by violence! Yet you will claim that man is more powerful than God and can make himself BORN AGAIN! Jesus didn't come to make bad men good,he came to make dead men live.
That's why there is a thing called the "unpardonable sin"; the only sin that cannot be pardoned is rejecting Christ as savior. "Bring by violence!"? I can just here the impenitent sinner now, "I'm not saved 'cause God hasn't brought me to Him by violence yet. Just gonna have to wait on that! Bring me another round, Jim!" Friend, you are very confused.
Though that is one of the definitions of the Greek word for draw,it simply means to use adequate force to overcome all resistance.Why do you think Jesus said one must be born again?Let me ask you Believerification ,what part did you play in your natural birth?Did you decide to be born?And aren't all babies cleaned up after the birth or before?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones,you obviously don't realize it,but you are nothing more than Roman Catholic light,if you believe it is man that chooses God.Man ,in the flesh,can only choose a false god by his free will.If you are saved,it is only because God made you BORN AGAIN first so you could repent and believe.
@CBALLEN: and you obviously don't realize that your theology makes God the author of sin. If man has no free will, he can not be held accountable for his actions... your God is a Cosmic Caligula, nothing more, nothing less
Man does exactly what his heart desires,but God uses man's sin to accomplice His own goals.God has decreed the beginning till the end.Most free willers that I know believe that God has to work His plan out around man's will,that's just crazy.God is working with a stacked deck and marked cards.I do as I please,says the Lord of Hosts!
Original sin, meaning sin derived from our origin...it is one that brings into fruitful focus the reality of sin in our spiritual system. The assertion of original sin means not that sin belongs to human nature as God made it (God made mankind upright, Eccles. 7:29), nor that sin is involved in the processes of reproduction and birth (the uncleanness connected with menstruation, semen, and childbirth in Leviticus 12 and 15 was typical and ceremonial only, not moral and real).
...But that sinfulness marks everyone from birth, and is there in the form of a motivationally twisted heart, prior to any actual sins.
This inner sinfulness is the root and source of all actual sins.
It derives to us in a real though mysterious way from Adam, our first representative before God. The assertion of original sin makes the point that we are not sinners because we sin, but rather we sin because we are sinners, born with a nature enslaved to sin.
The root of sin is pride & enmity against God, the spirit seen in Adam's first transgression and sinful acts always have behind them thoughts, motives, and desires that essentially expresses the willful opposition of the fallen heart to God's claims on our lives. Sin may be comprehensively defined as lack of conformity to the law of God in act, habit, attitude, outlook, disposition, motivation, and mode of existence. Jer. 17:9; Matt. 12:30-37; Mark 7:20-23; Rom. 1:18-3:20; 7:7-25; 8:5-8; 14:23
You're criminalizing God, because He is the one who creates each and every persons nature. To say that God give all mankind a nature which He hates and condemns is rediculous!
And to blame Adam is a making a scapegoat for your own personal character flaws.
1 John 1:8 = If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. =
James 2:10 = For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Gal 3:24 = Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Everyone is guilty of breaking the law. Your presuppositions lead you to your faulty conclusion. Let us reason from Scripture to see what the Lord says.
In Adam all men die,but Jesus came so man could live,He is the second Adam.If All men die because of Adam,no one is using him as a scapegoat.He is the reason that we all are not only dead in our sin and are unable to come to God ,but his legacy has made us purely evil while we are natural men and women unable to choose God ,He's also the reason that all men die physically.These are the flaws that we ALL have INHERITED.
Here's a interesting comment I heard Mr. Skelly make on his latest video. He now claims that Calvinists are going around spreading lies about "Saint Pelagius." I kid you not; that's what the man called him...a saint!! Anyone who can go around denying the necessity of grace and then, when called into question for it in a Church council, deny it, should not be even remotely considered as a saint!
ok i'm lik new to being a christian. as inlike 3-4 days from now will be my 1 year aniversury of being christian. and for me it's been a long dark and twisty road. and i'm just wondering who the f*ck is right? pelagius or the catholics or the babtists? trying to figure this out is makeing my head hurt why do christians fight each other? cuz what i know or think i know is we shuld be fighting the thralls of hell and not mortal men/women. and follow the son of The Adonai! but how do we follow?
No it's not. God made man upright (Ecclesiastes 7:29). And even if we were born with sin in our flesh, God blessed us with the free will to choose right from wrong PLUS Christians have the Holy Spirit. It's not impossble to say no to temptation. 1 John 1:8 does not say that we sin everyday in thought word and deed. That is man's invention.
Why would we need a Divine intervention, if our slavery to sin is not our own fault (according to your teachings, it's our natures or Adam's fault) at the first place?
... also if Psalm 139:13 is correct, then it's actually God's own fault, that we are slaves to sin. Who cannot see that the doctrine that men are born sinners charges God with creating sinners? It represents man as being formed a sinner in his mother's womb, when the Bible clearly teaches that God forms man in his mother's womb.
... For if man has a sinful nature at birth, who is it who established the laws of procreation under which he would be born with that nature? God, of course. There is no escaping the logical inference that is implicit in the doctrine of an inherited sin nature. It is a blasphemous and slanderous libel on the character of God.
The 529 Council of Orange! Amazing!!! It serves as a great reminder of our rich heritage we have in church history. I can't help but wonder what happened to the Roman Catholic Church after such an incredible, grace and Gospel-centered document was written.
Grace and peace to all the saints around the world!
openairpreacher, please i hope you're not really preaching open air because you clearly dont understand the gospel, im sorry if it sounds rough but its true, Jesus' penal atonement satisfied God's infinite wrath against sinners because of Jesus Christ's infinite worth, and therefore the Father put His stamp of approval of the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Son by raising Him from the dead.
For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. II do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
I am born again. I was given a new heart and a new spirit that is no longer "deceitful above all else and desperately wicked" as I am no longer living as the natural man.
You can know that your heart is right with God. and that you are born again. How? Because the Spirit of God testifies to your spirit that you are saved (Rom 8:16).
You can turn from your sins and forsake them. You don't have to continue in sin!
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. [ 1 Peter 2:24 ]
Jesus personally bore "our" sins. Not general sins.
OpenAirPreacher, why did you stop responding to my messages? You would not answer the questions I asked nor the scripture I gave. You ignore the very questions that awaken the Truth; why do you choose to suppress the Truth?
Jesus did no sin, ever; rather, our actual sin was placed upon Him.
I agree that sin is an action-it's a choice one makes. We do what our nature tells us to do. Just as a fig tree bears figs by nature, not apples. We choose to sin, because of our nature of sin passed down from Adam. We were born, in sin, a child of wrath-by nature.
OpenAirPreacher, Your faith is in your own ability to uphold the law, and NOT in Christ alone. Repent of your sin
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
OpenAir, you seek to establish your own righteousness, founded in your own ability to uphold the law & not sin
We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!
"not sin or defiled like calvinists claim!" Michael M
Calvinism does NOT teach the flesh is sinful as you seem to think. We teach sin has corrupted man in his totality. No Calvinist Jesus was sin or defiled. You fail to understand both the Bible and Calvinism.
Jesus paid for our sins. He had NO SINS of His own. He died for the sins of His sheep!
Jesus did NOT go to hell at all. The phrase "He descended into hell" is ill advised. He was an infinite Godman and so His suffering was sufficient for an eternity in hell.
"then that proves Jesus was not the payment for sin...rather a holy blood sacrifice substitute " MM
So who will pay for your sins...you? You believe Jesus only forgives your sins you committed before you get saved and now it is up to YOU to keep free from sin, right?
I wont pay for my sins or I would go to hell forever.
Jesus does not pay for my sins or He would go to hell forever
so how do I get into Gods kingdom?
by the blood of Jesus! its a remission for sin,,washed and cleansed by the blood" MM
The wages of sin is death. Someone has to pay and Jesus didl for His elect. You talk about being washed and cleansed by the blood. Who paid the debt of sin?
You are making a distinction without a difference!
This is the last time I am speaking to you, openairpreacher, but I felt that I had to rebuke you. Calvinists do not deny the blood as remission for sins, where do you get your information from?
I recommend that you read the Canons of the Synod of Dordt, to see exactly what it is we believe.
Obviously you are clueless, and any true Christian would at least want to know what it is they are refuting if they are going to so vehemently oppose someone.
I believe it. Anyone who says he is without sin clearly does not understand the first thing about human nature and the atonement. This man is such an arrogant jerk, sorry, I hate to be so bold, but it is only the truth.
He has said the most vile things to me and he knows nothing of me.
Oh, you have every right! He said some pretty things on campus and when I pulled out my bible and started to try and preach the "truth" he could not handle that and he said crazy things to me as well as the croud of the people!
I think 'crazy' is the operative word here. The man is obviously not right in the head. I hear that he is hanging out with the TicToc camp now, most likely the only people who will have him.
"its up to me to stop & walk holy, God does not force people." Michael M
So we must do something to give the cross its power? That means at the end of the day, the glory is OURS. That man-centered thinking will send you to Hell. To GOD be ALL the glory, not most of the glory, ALL!
Michael, God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. If you pridefully believe that it is up to YOU to stop sinning, you are glorifying your self and exalting your own righteous ability to keep the law. Repent
"because I love God and and other I choose to stop sinning!" Michael
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Gal 3:2-3)
You have ZERO idea what you are saying. WHY did you take down your Pelagius videos??? Oh I know and so does everyone else. No offense but you dont know the Scriptures NOR history
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Hey guys, if you have children, I hope you don't ask them to obey you, because they can't do anything good, unless, of course, obedience is not a "good" thing. It is clear that if you can choose to do evil, then you can choose otherwise. To talk of inability is to talk nonsense. With this kind of contradictory logic, you couldn't even do third-grade math. When one only has one choice (evil), it is not a choice, and, therefore one who can only do evil is simply not blameworthy! It's not evil!
You hit the nail on the head. Why do we have to tell children what to do right if they're not doing something wrong, and why are they doing something wrong if they aren't born with a "wrong" nature?
"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:7-9). The fact is, if you can post here, you can stop sinning!
mgtheology, read bofore you post. Otherwise, you look like a fool acting like you know everything. DON'T SPAM MY MSG BOX! I have been having 20 or so a day for the last week.
Wow! Unless he was violating some terms, I hope he wasn't suspended just because someone didn't like what he was saying. Even though I vehemently disagree with his theology, if he isn't violating any terms of Youtube, he should be allowed to have free speech.
Yeah, let's all get our "brown shirts" and start smashing windows and burning Jesse's Books. After all, who needs free speech anyway. Heil to you all!
Um... did you even read what I wrote? I said that unless he did something wrong, he shouldn't be suspended. I understand that eisegesis is a hard thing to overcome, but reread what I wrote, and you'll see that.
A very helpful video, I have read the council of orange. I think it addresses the Pelagian heresy perfectly. I pray jessemorrell listens to this and turns over fully, his corrupted will to Jesus. A denial of original sin is a denial of Gods Authority and Grace.
"Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature [2 Pet 2:14] children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
I've debated over and over w/ppl who refuse to believe tht we have to be saved FIRST before we will believe in Christ. They just don't want to hear it. The best way I've found to debate this subject is by quoting 1Cor12:3 and then Jhn3:15-16 . You can clearly read that 1Cor12:3 comes BEFORE Jhn3:15-16 because we can't believe in Christ UNTIL we receive the Holy Ghost. Another example is to quote Jhn6:44 THEN Jhn6:35. No man can come unless the Father draws him, and whosoever comes will be saved.
SuperDonster 7 months ago
I think its better to be out there preaching than having foolish debates. Jesse Morrell is an awesome peacher.
fernieboy100 7 months ago
we are all pelagians at heart- our express doctrines make no difference. If we force ourtselves to do "good works" then we are legalists then we are pelagians
Strefanasha 8 months ago
I like this video. Is has redefined semi-pelagianism more for me. I tend to believe in semi-pelagianism. No original sin, free will and grace for repentance for "personal sins". Adam and Eve sin seems more mythological. They are even found in the Tale of Gilgamesh which predates the bible. Their existence could have been fabricated. Adam and Eve contradicts the the Book of John where it reads Jesus was the light of men in the world not adam.
aba37 9 months ago
@aba37 Predates the bible? The bible cannon is a compilation of books written over many centuries, it isn't a single revelation like the Quran or Book of Mormon. The oldest Sumerian poems date to 2150 BC, the Exodus is estimated at 1200 BC, so we have some way to go back to Adam and Eve. If they are the mother and father of all living, then it would be normal to have their story in your history or mythology.
rkhufu7 11 hours ago
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8
Call me crazy (or a heretic), but I think what John is saying here is that if we say we have no sin, then we are deceiving ourselves and the truth isn't in us.
payn3a91 11 months ago
@payn3a91 Not gonna call you crazy but... what he is saying isn't that we always have sin, in fact he explains clearly that if we confess/repent our sins God will forgive us and cleanse us (at this point we would be clean and blameless before him). However we have all sinned and if we say we haven't then we deceive ourselves...
It means the same as the beginning of verse 10. If we claim not to have sinned (as in ever). 8&10 both address our claim and then how they relate to 8-ourselves, 10-God
rtslayer 8 months ago
Um mr drop. Just let the scriptures speak for itself. Thank you.
Calling something heresy doesn't do it justice my friend
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
They do speak "for themselves." But someone has to read them or hear them... so not literally.
I'll just ask you to do the same if you're a Calvinist or wish to defend this as reformed theology---read the writings of the first 300 years of the church. No Calvinist would make a bold claim that their theology is the correct one that the original Apostles taught without asserting that history should support it, yet they're spoken against for the first 300 years of the church.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
Your still committing fallacy my friend. Saying "its heresy because its heresy" doesn't prove that it is heresy. I hope your talking about the Council of Nicene that congressed at 325 AD? I actually have the creed on hand on my iphone, if you would like to demonstrate to me out of the creed that contradicts reformed theology please do so- but I will direct you back to what scripture say not what I think.
God bless.
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
I said it was heresy because it was called that from the beginning of the Church, immediately after Christ's death, by a number of writings and early church fathers. It's also heresy according to Scripture, but it's a little difficult to do this over youtube comments. I only point consistent Calvinists, who would have to argue their position is Biblical and historical---they need proof, and the proof is not in the writings. Try WAAAY before the Councils, I said Ante-Nicean
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
Hey, I don't want to misrepresent your comment- but allow me to ask you a few questions.
"It was heresy because it was called that from the beginning of the Church"- What?
again if you would like to demonstrate to me why you think something is heresy Then let me hear your case... remember just because you saying thing is heresy doesn't make it heresy- please demonstrate how it is so. if you want to do one topic at a time we can do so. thanks
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
All 5 points of Calvinism are heresy. And they all depend on one another, so if one falls they all fall. They are all semi-Gnostic in origin. I have one two-part video of the Early Church versus Calvin's Preservation of the Saints.. it's a lot of reading, but it's quite clear-I'd rather point you to that. You can message me if you'd like, I have open messaging after you've watched it. If you can provide an opposing view in Ante-Nicean church history to that video, show me.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
my good sir, I'd like to debate here in the open.
Ok, from your say so of Calvinism its heresy. However I'm not getting any sold evidence of your assertions. I'm going to keep repeating myself until we can create a serious discussion on a topic.
did you know that the 5 points of Calvinism was a response to the heresy of the 5 points of Arminanism?
now, you say that the 5 points is heresy- could you tell me how?
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
I'm not starting a debate here.. I've debated this before and it won't get anywhere. I'm not going to go to my videos, and then come back and copy every quote from every early church father and quote it back to this or Scripture.
I had read about the 5 points being in response, but--I don't support Arminius either. The same claim still remains, watch the 2 part video, see if you can provide opposition in Ante-Nicean history, I've not been shown anything contrary by anyone.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
Are you Roman Catholic?
I'm sorry, but If your not willing to demonstrate your assertions in a public debate then I don't see how you can continue to raise the issue if you can't prove it.
I'm going to ask you again.
Where in the 5 points of Calvinism teaches heresy.
It would be fair to give a presentation of how these things were heresy.
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
No I'm not Catholic, I don't really hold to any denomination... lol... sorry that is funny...
Ezekiel 18 is a clear refutation of Total Depravity, born sinful, Adam's posterity inherit Adam's sin(as if sin is physically able to be inherited). All Scriptures used to support it are proof-texts, the usual Ephesians 2, Psalm 51:5, and 58:3, and Romans 5. Sin is by definition "to miss the mark," or according to John "transgression of the law." Jesus Christ is from the...
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
Ok you said EZekiel 18 is a "clear" refutation of Total depravity. I don't see how this text refutes anything of Total depravity- This text is speaks of God telling the children of Israel not to use a "proverb" when dealing with their forefathers because they are using this "proverb" as an excuse to not carry on as God's chosen people (vs 3). I think a lot of people have overlooked this scripture without understanding its context. before you disprove TD, could you tell me what it is?
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod ...seed of Adam, as is clearly laid out from the beginning of Scripture in Genesis (enmity between woman's seed and the serpent), and multiple times it's shown through out Scripture*seed of David, seed of Abraham), especially the "Son of Man"--claiming that Jesus was a true human being born of a virgin, from Mary's womb---if TD is correct, Jesus was a sinner, such heresy. If you claim anything otherwise, He wouldn't have been human, and then I would label you semi-gnostic.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
Ok, I'd love to respond to all of your assertions but let us deal with what you have given from the start shall we?
I'd like to deal with one issue at a time as you raise them for clarification... because when you go off on tangents then thats when confusion comes in and usually misconceptions are easy to make.
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
@theembracedofgod
This is just one point that falls out under consistency, and it has no bearing in the early church or Scripture, except in light of the heretics. I already told you though, I'm not going to get into a full on debate. I have videos, and favorites, and have already believed many of the lies of Calvinism within my past of being Christian. This will be my last reply on this, no matter if you reply or not. God Bless. Remember if one point falls, they all fall.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro
"it has no bearing in the early church or scripture" - I'd love to know what your talking about and why it is so- but your still committing the fallacy of "bias/subjective opinion"
I'm not asking for a full debate- I'm just asking to prove at least one of your assertions so it doesn't look like your "trolling"videos in ignorance. I'm actually helping you out here.
you gave me a couple of scriptures- I've already addressed one- I"m just waiting for a rebuttal.
theembracedofgod 1 year ago
Lane... repent of your false semi-Gnostic gospel and heresy. It's odd that you would call Pelagius a heretic when his views align much more with that of the Ante-Nicean church than does the former Gnostic Augustine... the Early church would call you the heretics, because you interpret the Bible just like the fatalistic Gnostics. If you have the free will to do so, read the early church writings prior to Augustine... you stand in contrast with the first 300 years of the church
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro Well said Bro', I noted that laneCH didn't have an answer to your comment, that's because him and the rest are nothing more than egotistical, selfriious, religious nutters, you put him down very nicely.
God bless you Bro'
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics
Dont get me wrong though, I don't think Pelagius was completely correct either. It's more of a balance between these two leaning more towards Pelagius that I read in Scripture.
It's not hard to see it in history though, since Augustine was a former Gnostic that just didn't deplete all his former views, Luther took some of his stuff from Augustine, and Calvin got some of his doctrines from Augustine... so it's traced back to semi-Gnosticism easily.
droptozro 1 year ago
@droptozro Thanks for replying, I'm just so sick of these ego driven, selfrightious,I'm loved by God more than YOU types they make me just want to vomit.
Why do people want to complicate the Gospel eh ?
All you need is the simplicity that is in Christ Rom 10 - 9:10 and don't add anything to it !
God bless you Bro'
Loonypics 1 year ago
Jesus also inherited something from Adam, that is why he was called 'son of man' and also why he was crucified.
yarrw 1 year ago
Protestants are evil because they left the Catholic Church, and made up their own religion...
steelbrushtattoo 1 year ago
@steelbrushtattoo All religions are evil because they have man made customs and doctrines which are not biblical.
yarrw 1 year ago
@steelbrushtattoo
-
Papists are evil because they reject the Reformation and purity of the Gospel. Now what?
AgApE010 1 year ago
If the wages of sin are death, and some babies are born stillborn or die very young or even die in the womb does that not prove that pelagianism is not correct?!
Jesus did not taste death, because he was without sin; therefore, it is safe to conclude that the Bible is correct in saying that we have inherited the sin of Adam.
themalina92 1 year ago
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Original sin seems to be related to Pauline doctrine "the law of sin and death" in Romans 8 but Christ the "spirit of life" sets us free from this inheritance from Adam. Jesus is the second Adam (second son of God) in 1Cor 15:45. It also says we are the image of the man of dust and so Adams children (not God's) until we are saved that is.
yarrw 1 year ago
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Original sin seems to be related to Pauline doctrine "the law of sin and death" in Romans 8 but Christ the "spirit of life" sets us free from this inheritance from Adam. Jesus is the second Adam (second son of God) in 1Cor 15:45. It also says we are the image of the man of dust and so Adams children (not God's) until we are saved that is.
yarrw 1 year ago
Sin is always a choice and action. Not a physical state. We are commanded to turn from our actions not our physical make up. If this were true we would have an excuse before God. Sin is always doing evil and knowing what we have done.
Amazing this heresy. We are hell bound because of how we are born? Satan, adam and the angels are understood to have this inexcusable sin and no one else? There is no biblical strength to this theology. Its truly satanic.
brian9monty 1 year ago
@brian9monty
So you would contend that we are sinful because we sin - instead of we sin because we are sinful- that if we just stop sinning (making wrong choices) we will cease being sinful? That theological stance, my friend, is truly Satanic.
SAOProductions1955 1 year ago
Yes, all, every human being on Earth is born with a willingness to chose SIN, just as Adam did, and they DO, because NO GOOD dwells in the Flesh! Paul says, "For I know that NOTHING good dwells in me, that is, in my FLESH; for the WILLING (to do good) is present in me, but the DOING of the good is NOT." Rom. 7:18. Paul says that Man cannot do anything GOOD, but that Man DOES have a willingness to do it, thus refuting the State of TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
apollos6640 1 year ago
Athough, Jesse Morell is not favored among some, He does make sense if you actually listen to him.
Creationcreed 1 year ago
Pelagian believed what God told Cain and believed what Peter said in Acts 2.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
you know, I really hate the word "heretic". To my mind, the word is utterly meaningless.
ARP7777777 1 year ago
So Jesse Morrell has a theological ax to grind and so do you; it's called the market place of ideas.
roaringwaterbay 1 year ago
Pelagius(from my understanding) was no a heretic by two councils until Augustine's gnostic councils denounced him.... sorry, LaneCh, if you think you have sound doctrine--you will research it and see it's origins in Gnosticism... not in the Early Church, especially since Augustine was a former Manichean(sp?)... I pray you guys can figure out this, it hurts the body to have false doctrines. God Bless
droptozro 1 year ago
See, religion interprets God as a strict authoritative and terrifying figure, if your god is my god, i should have been terrified. Correct yourselves before correcting others, and criticize yourself before you criticize other doenominations. Because of religion there is DIVISION, DISUNITY... and even chaos. There is only one God, which transcends every name and transcends everything in this transient universe, even transcending his title as God. Because God reveals himself in every religion.
gothicworld54 2 years ago
@gothicworld54 The only way you can claim to see God in every religion is to set yourself up at a position higher than all others, where you have been able to reconcile everyone else because of your own wisdom. All the blind men touch different parts of an elephant, but you, you claim, are the only man who can see.
On what basis do you make such an arrogant claim, and DIVIDE yourself from people of all religions in superiority?
Dovieandi23 1 year ago
@Dovieandi23 Amen friend! That's almost exactly what I said. To my mind, there is no "one true way" so called, only many paths, and until we die we cannot know if ANY of them are the right one. As John Godfrey Saxe wrote "Twas five wise men of Hindustan, of learning much inclined, they went to see the Elephant, though all of them were BLIND! So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
ARP7777777 1 year ago
It's nonsense like this that is creating a generation of atheists.
Believerification 2 years ago
You claim that the unpadonable sin is rejecting Jesus,but the Bible teaches it was attributing the things of God to SATAN,isn't this true?Also,when do you believe that your name was written in the Lamb's book of life?
CBALLEN 2 years ago
No, it isn't true. How many scriptures talk about the blood of Jesus cleansing us from ALL sin, all sin would include every sin you can imagine. The only sins it cannot cleanse are the sins of the impenitent. Try to make sure your beliefs square with the entire Bible, will ya? Have you ever asked someone while leading them to Christ if they ever happened to attribute the things of God to Satan, and then tell them the reason you're asking is because God cannot pardon that sin? Silliness.
Believerification 2 years ago
That is what specifically happened when the unpardonable sin was mentioned,the pharisees were claiming that Jesus was under Satan's power,it was this sin called the unpardinable sin.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
So then no Satanist can be forgiven no matter how desperately he seeks forgiveness? Think, man!
Believerification 2 years ago
If any Satanist becomes a Christian,it is because God called him to be one.God chose who He would save before time began.We are commanded,as Christians ,to preach the gospel to every creature because we don't know who the CHOSEN are,it is the power of the Gospel,that brings people to the Lord,through the coviction of the HOLY SPIRIT.Jesus is not a weak beggar of souls,He is a Mighty Savior.Believe me,God will save all that He intends to save.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Leaving your tangent aside about who will be saved, then you admit that a Satanist, who by definition attributes the work of God to Satan (and therefore commits the unpardonable sin) can be saved and his "unpardonable sin" pardoned.
Believerification 2 years ago
Context,context,context.You are again forgetting that it is God who chose who would be saved before time.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Go back to the question of the unpardonable sin and deal with it. Face it, and tell me how a Satanist could be pardoned for committing the unpardonable sin before we talk about God choosing who would be saved. If God chooses who must be saved, then according to your understanding of the unpardonable sin, he would not choose someone who commits a sin he says in his book he shall not pardon. So go back to the unpardonable sin and stop dancing around it.
Believerification 2 years ago
I will deal with each question in turn, but I will not have you skip over any question without your giving a reasonable rebuttal to a question which I consider I have dealt with it conclusively. Reconcile God's pardoning of a moral agent guilty of committing the unpardonable sin.
Believerification 2 years ago
What did Jesus say was the unpardonable sin?Blaspheming the Holy Spirit,by attributing to Satan what came from God,is that not what it says?
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Jesus was speaking in a particular context.He was speaking about those particular pharasees who KNEW that Jesus came from God,as Nicodemus had admitted,that NO ONE could do the things that Jesus did except He be from God,but they did not want to admit or bow down to Jesus ,even though there was NO DOUBT in their own minds.Instead they chose to say Jesus worked through the power of Satan.The 2nd psalms mirrors this same senario.Hope it helped.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
So then that scripture applies ONLY to those particular Pharisees? Is not the sin of unbelief the only sin that God cannot forgive? Could unbelief then not be called unpardonable?
Believerification 2 years ago
The thing is,those pharasees were not unbelievers,in the truth vs falsehood sense,they knew that Jesus came from God,as backed up by Nicodemus,but they did not want to lose their power over the people.They chose to keep their Earthly power,but lose their very soul.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
This is why Jesus said that they were of their father Satan.Satan willfully chose to blaspheme God,with more intimate knowledge than any human has.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Please answer the questions.
Believerification 2 years ago
YouTube is rife with blasphemers of every stripe and spot; I'm anxious to know if they are committing the unpardonable sin.
Believerification 2 years ago
If someone knows beyond any doubt that Jesus is God and their only hope for salvation and then they claim that Jesus is evil,sure.I'd say that God has not chosen to save them.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
The Bible plainly teaches that there are those people who have no doubt about who Jesus is,that will die and be lost.Man does exactly what he chooses to do in his own heart,so he is 100% accountable,but he can only come to God,if God makes him born again.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
The pharasees were held to a higher standard than the laymen,because they knew the scriptures.People who preach and teach today are held to this same standard,so be careful.Those lost ones,who say LORD ,LORD,that Jesus spoke of,sounded like they were preachers or teachers by the way they spoke of the works that they performed.These probably held high positions and had convinced themselves that they were righteous,they didn't sound like someone who had just had a death bed salvation experience.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Alright then, this is the end of it, this is the flaw in your doctrine:
Without faith it is impossible to please God. The Pharisees DID NOT KNOW beyond any doubt that Jesus was God, that would be to set aside faith. You don't have faith that you own a car, you know you do. After all, the disciples also cast out demons---should the Pharisees have thought they were all saviors? Not only the disciples cast out demons but others who appropriated Jesus' name.
Believerification 2 years ago
You're right,lost people can cast out demons because of the power in the name of Jesus,however Nicodemus made it clear,that they ,the pharasees,knew that no one could do the things that Jesus did except they be from God,but in their own lust to keep their power,they chose to say that Jesus' power came from Satan.Faith and repentance are both gifts from God.We can have all the head knowledge of Jesus possible,but without being a new creation in Christ,we are still lost.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Man is like a car that's in gear and the excelarators stuck wide open,ready to drive into sin as fast as we can go.God must keep our brakes on,for the most part or we would crash and burn many times over.The way that God hardens our heart is by taking the brakes off,he doesn't have to push the gas.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
LOL... just call Pelagius a heretic, so you don't have to actually think about what he said... I'll take Pelagius over Augustine, Luther, Calvin and each and every pope anyday.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
In your opinion then,man's will ultimately overides God's will,because what you are saing is,God calls a man to Jesus,but he doesn't have to come.The Greek word for "draw" means to drag,overcome all resistence,bring by violence! Yet you will claim that man is more powerful than God and can make himself BORN AGAIN! Jesus didn't come to make bad men good,he came to make dead men live.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
That's why there is a thing called the "unpardonable sin"; the only sin that cannot be pardoned is rejecting Christ as savior. "Bring by violence!"? I can just here the impenitent sinner now, "I'm not saved 'cause God hasn't brought me to Him by violence yet. Just gonna have to wait on that! Bring me another round, Jim!" Friend, you are very confused.
Believerification 2 years ago
Though that is one of the definitions of the Greek word for draw,it simply means to use adequate force to overcome all resistance.Why do you think Jesus said one must be born again?Let me ask you Believerification ,what part did you play in your natural birth?Did you decide to be born?And aren't all babies cleaned up after the birth or before?
CBALLEN 2 years ago
TennesseeOwnsMyBones,you obviously don't realize it,but you are nothing more than Roman Catholic light,if you believe it is man that chooses God.Man ,in the flesh,can only choose a false god by his free will.If you are saved,it is only because God made you BORN AGAIN first so you could repent and believe.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
@CBALLEN: and you obviously don't realize that your theology makes God the author of sin. If man has no free will, he can not be held accountable for his actions... your God is a Cosmic Caligula, nothing more, nothing less
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 2 years ago
Man does exactly what his heart desires,but God uses man's sin to accomplice His own goals.God has decreed the beginning till the end.Most free willers that I know believe that God has to work His plan out around man's will,that's just crazy.God is working with a stacked deck and marked cards.I do as I please,says the Lord of Hosts!
CBALLEN 2 years ago
The Law will keep you justified only if you never break it, but then one need justified through faith by grace.
To be "in sin" means to be practicing sin, therefore no one can be "born in sin" because one is not practicing sin at conception or at birth.
God only obligates man to that which man is capable, if not, then God is a tyrant.
Lhoizae 2 years ago
Pelagius argued against Gnosticism/Manichaeism, which is what this video is defending.
The only thing we inherit from Adam is that which is inheritable; sin can not be inherited.
Our nature comes from what we are, which is human, and that is to mature and to bear fruit.
Our fruit, weather sin or righteousness comes from what we love &/or what we put our affections on; and we mature in the fruit of such.
Pelagius never denied justification by grace through faith, read his commentary on Romans
Lhoizae 2 years ago
I was not born a sinner.
I was not born a saint.
What I am I have become.
ELIAXTRO 2 years ago
Lane Ch........ you're a liar & an antichrist, like your father satan.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus IS THE CHRIST? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
nneariah 2 years ago
Why do you say these things of me? Please support your assertion.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Original sin, meaning sin derived from our origin...it is one that brings into fruitful focus the reality of sin in our spiritual system. The assertion of original sin means not that sin belongs to human nature as God made it (God made mankind upright, Eccles. 7:29), nor that sin is involved in the processes of reproduction and birth (the uncleanness connected with menstruation, semen, and childbirth in Leviticus 12 and 15 was typical and ceremonial only, not moral and real).
kbphilly8 2 years ago
...But that sinfulness marks everyone from birth, and is there in the form of a motivationally twisted heart, prior to any actual sins.
This inner sinfulness is the root and source of all actual sins.
It derives to us in a real though mysterious way from Adam, our first representative before God. The assertion of original sin makes the point that we are not sinners because we sin, but rather we sin because we are sinners, born with a nature enslaved to sin.
kbphilly8 2 years ago
The root of sin is pride & enmity against God, the spirit seen in Adam's first transgression and sinful acts always have behind them thoughts, motives, and desires that essentially expresses the willful opposition of the fallen heart to God's claims on our lives. Sin may be comprehensively defined as lack of conformity to the law of God in act, habit, attitude, outlook, disposition, motivation, and mode of existence. Jer. 17:9; Matt. 12:30-37; Mark 7:20-23; Rom. 1:18-3:20; 7:7-25; 8:5-8; 14:23
kbphilly8 2 years ago
You're criminalizing God, because He is the one who creates each and every persons nature. To say that God give all mankind a nature which He hates and condemns is rediculous!
And to blame Adam is a making a scapegoat for your own personal character flaws.
Lhoizae 2 years ago
Nice job not using Scripture.
kbphilly8 2 years ago
How is one unjustified if one never breaks the law? If one never breaks the law, he has never sinned, then he is justified. This is common sense.
For God to obligate man to that which man is incapable is obviously tyrannical
Lhoizae 2 years ago
1 John 1:8 = If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. =
James 2:10 = For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Gal 3:24 = Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Everyone is guilty of breaking the law. Your presuppositions lead you to your faulty conclusion. Let us reason from Scripture to see what the Lord says.
kbphilly8 2 years ago
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Lhoizae 2 years ago
The extent of God's commandments is the exact extent of man's ability.
Does God give commandments which men cannot obey? Is He so severe, so unloving, as to issue commandments which cannot be obeyed?
Is God so unjust and so inconsiderate as to require man that which he is unable to render? To infer is to slander the character of God.
God is not a tyrant, and His laws are not tyrannical. God's commandments are not burdensome (1John 5:3)
Lhoizae 2 years ago
I'm not arguing that man has broken God's law, but fact is that man can live with out sinning; Jesus proved it so.
Lhoizae 2 years ago
In Adam all men die,but Jesus came so man could live,He is the second Adam.If All men die because of Adam,no one is using him as a scapegoat.He is the reason that we all are not only dead in our sin and are unable to come to God ,but his legacy has made us purely evil while we are natural men and women unable to choose God ,He's also the reason that all men die physically.These are the flaws that we ALL have INHERITED.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
1Co 15:22 is talking about physical death as v21 is a physical resurrection.
The whole Chpt. of 1Corinth 15 is talking about the fleshly body that we now have (flesh and blood) cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
All who are "in Adam" means those who are still in the flesh.
We need to be changed, resurrected (1Co 15:51, Php 3:21)
Do not blame Adam for your spiritual deadness, blame yourself & live up to your own self induced guilt.
Lhoizae 2 years ago
We are like Adam,First he died spiritualy,then bodily.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Acts 13:48
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Here's a interesting comment I heard Mr. Skelly make on his latest video. He now claims that Calvinists are going around spreading lies about "Saint Pelagius." I kid you not; that's what the man called him...a saint!! Anyone who can go around denying the necessity of grace and then, when called into question for it in a Church council, deny it, should not be even remotely considered as a saint!
Paul1T2Day 2 years ago
ok i'm lik new to being a christian. as inlike 3-4 days from now will be my 1 year aniversury of being christian. and for me it's been a long dark and twisty road. and i'm just wondering who the f*ck is right? pelagius or the catholics or the babtists? trying to figure this out is makeing my head hurt why do christians fight each other? cuz what i know or think i know is we shuld be fighting the thralls of hell and not mortal men/women. and follow the son of The Adonai! but how do we follow?
drstrangeman 2 years ago
By reading His word to find out what He wants from us.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
bluliite 2 years ago
but it is impossable to be perfect for we are sons of adam and daughters of eve. sin is our nature.
drstrangeman 2 years ago
No it's not. God made man upright (Ecclesiastes 7:29). And even if we were born with sin in our flesh, God blessed us with the free will to choose right from wrong PLUS Christians have the Holy Spirit. It's not impossble to say no to temptation. 1 John 1:8 does not say that we sin everyday in thought word and deed. That is man's invention.
bluliite 2 years ago 2
ah. i will need to look through again.
drstrangeman 2 years ago
Do not listen to bluliiite as it appears he is pushing sinless perfection.
We are slaves to sin and need of Divine intervention.
kbphilly8 2 years ago
Why would we need a Divine intervention, if our slavery to sin is not our own fault (according to your teachings, it's our natures or Adam's fault) at the first place?
... also if Psalm 139:13 is correct, then it's actually God's own fault, that we are slaves to sin. Who cannot see that the doctrine that men are born sinners charges God with creating sinners? It represents man as being formed a sinner in his mother's womb, when the Bible clearly teaches that God forms man in his mother's womb.
AzaZeLgaming 2 years ago
... For if man has a sinful nature at birth, who is it who established the laws of procreation under which he would be born with that nature? God, of course. There is no escaping the logical inference that is implicit in the doctrine of an inherited sin nature. It is a blasphemous and slanderous libel on the character of God.
AzaZeLgaming 2 years ago
Now I see how you came up with your heretical doctrine.
kbphilly8 2 years ago
there's this other guy in youtube under the name of GraceTruthGuy who also denies original sin...very sad
no1djkamilo 2 years ago
if we are "naturally drawn to free will" it is because free will IS right. We know we love God by our obedience.!
acts29usa1 2 years ago
Further, (and I do so hate to be the one to point this out) if it is possible to be perfect in this life, then why are you an ugly old paunchy guy?
Seems to me you wouldn't be scarfing down the Whoppers if you are as perfect as you claim to be...
A true Christian would never call me a satanist or wiccan simply because I believe in the Doctrines of Grace.
For an old guy you sure haven't learned very much. A perfect person would not falsely accuse the brethren!
silmalila 2 years ago
The end of this was awesome.
agentorangetechno 2 years ago
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agentorangetechno 2 years ago
This is a gem. God bless these brothers for making Pelagianism plain for those who do not understand that this view is entirely unscriptural.
I pray that those who hold to these doctrines will watch this and be educate
by it..
God bless you Lane for posting this!
: )
silmalila 2 years ago
Is this a satire on Darth Pelagius or for realsies? I truly can't tell...
apolloxias 2 years ago
The 529 Council of Orange! Amazing!!! It serves as a great reminder of our rich heritage we have in church history. I can't help but wonder what happened to the Roman Catholic Church after such an incredible, grace and Gospel-centered document was written.
Grace and peace to all the saints around the world!
papertiger11216 2 years ago
That was my favorite part...
agentorangetechno 2 years ago
calvinism
rejects blood as the remission for sin and replaces it with a Penal atonement..
blood atonement is a substitution sacrifice..setting aside mans punishment
false penal atonement is Jesus paying punishment!,,which is illogical!
the punishment for sin is .,.,HELL
Jesus would still be in hell (forever)
openairpreacher 2 years ago
The bible says that Jesus "Put away Sin."
Ill go with the bible.
dwaynesweatman1988 2 years ago 2
Your argument and logic is deeply flawed, as are all the garbled ramblings which you try confuse people with.
You don't confuse me: I know exactly how unscriptural your beliefs are.
silmalila 2 years ago
And I am with silmalila on that one.
Open Air Preacher, we rebuke you!
agentorangetechno 2 years ago
If Christ redeemed every man on earth, then why do some go to hell?
agentorangetechno 2 years ago
... 'cause some chose not to believe Jesus Christ, as their savior. Plain & simple.
AzaZeLgaming 2 years ago
openairpreacher, please i hope you're not really preaching open air because you clearly dont understand the gospel, im sorry if it sounds rough but its true, Jesus' penal atonement satisfied God's infinite wrath against sinners because of Jesus Christ's infinite worth, and therefore the Father put His stamp of approval of the sufficiency of the sacrifice of the Son by raising Him from the dead.
And by the way, how are you doing on not sinning?
no1djkamilo 2 years ago
[ Galatians 2:18-21 ]
For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. II do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
I care for you OpenAir!
kyleotto44 3 years ago
calvinism based on augustines gnostic doctrine,, claims the westminster catechism,,
no one can ever stop sinning
everyone sins every day
word,thought and deed!
this is antichrist
sealed in sin..always sin,,born sin
sin nature, flesh is sin..
and Jesus becomes sin and pays the punishment,,so Jesus became unholy blood
its devilish doctrine,,calvinism is dangerous
openairpreacher 3 years ago
What is wrong with this statement?
"Honestly, my heart is right before God."
I am born again. I was given a new heart and a new spirit that is no longer "deceitful above all else and desperately wicked" as I am no longer living as the natural man.
You can know that your heart is right with God. and that you are born again. How? Because the Spirit of God testifies to your spirit that you are saved (Rom 8:16).
You can turn from your sins and forsake them. You don't have to continue in sin!
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
Jesus is Love and wants people to stop sinning
calvinists claim this is never done..its anti-christ
openairpreacher 3 years ago
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. [ 1 Peter 2:24 ]
Jesus personally bore "our" sins. Not general sins.
OpenAirPreacher, why did you stop responding to my messages? You would not answer the questions I asked nor the scripture I gave. You ignore the very questions that awaken the Truth; why do you choose to suppress the Truth?
kyleotto44 3 years ago
you only accept calvinist replies,,
so what sin did Jesus do on the cross?
cuss? tell lies? do drugs?
come on Jesus was a sin subsitute
sin is a action... not a calivinst augustine gnostic mystic notion !
wake up!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
I expect and accept in context, Biblical verses.
Jesus did no sin, ever; rather, our actual sin was placed upon Him.
I agree that sin is an action-it's a choice one makes. We do what our nature tells us to do. Just as a fig tree bears figs by nature, not apples. We choose to sin, because of our nature of sin passed down from Adam. We were born, in sin, a child of wrath-by nature.
OpenAirPreacher, Your faith is in your own ability to uphold the law, and NOT in Christ alone. Repent of your sin
kyleotto44 3 years ago
I am not a lawkeeper,, I believe salvation is by Grace alone,,,
Jesus did the work on the cross,,not me..
our nature tells us to stop sinning,,, calvinism says you cannot stop
our sin was not placed on Jesus or Jesus would have been sinning,, sin is a action
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Romans 10:1-4
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
OpenAir, you seek to establish your own righteousness, founded in your own ability to uphold the law & not sin
kyleotto44 3 years ago
Jesus did the work and commands people to be obedient...and DO good works and DO righteousness..
1 jhn 3;10
your argument is christians cannot do good and do righteousness and always keep sinning.,,,, calvinist thinking is the spirit of antichrist
openairpreacher 3 years ago
[ Galatians 2:15-17 ]
We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!
kyleotto44 3 years ago
doing works of the law cannot pay for sinning,,, the payment for sinning is hell forever....
Jesus did not pay for our sins,, or he would be in hell forever...
BUT the blood was the remission of sin.
a sin substitute.. Holy Blood
calvinists make Jesus the servant of sin
( you cannot stop sinning)
openairpreacher 3 years ago
"so what sin did Jesus do on the cross?
cuss? tell lies? do drugs?" opinionatedpreacher
Jesus was the Spotless Lamb of God who knew no sin. Quit blaspheming!
KalElohim 2 years ago
yes Jesus was a Holy Blood sacrifice..
not a payment for sin..
Jesus was a ransom and holy and pure!
not sin or defiled like calvinists claim!
openairpreacher 2 years ago
"not sin or defiled like calvinists claim!" Michael M
Calvinism does NOT teach the flesh is sinful as you seem to think. We teach sin has corrupted man in his totality. No Calvinist Jesus was sin or defiled. You fail to understand both the Bible and Calvinism.
Jesus paid for our sins. He had NO SINS of His own. He died for the sins of His sheep!
KalElohim 2 years ago
every calvinist I have spoke with says flesh is sin,,and nature is sin...
and Jesus became sin..
and I have spoke with a bunch
openairpreacher 2 years ago
Jesus was a sin substitute not payment
the payment for sin is hell forever
Jesus did not go to hell forever
openairpreacher 2 years ago
"the payment for sin is hell forever
Jesus did not go to hell forever" Michael M
Jesus did NOT go to hell at all. The phrase "He descended into hell" is ill advised. He was an infinite Godman and so His suffering was sufficient for an eternity in hell.
KalElohim 2 years ago
then that proves Jesus was not the payment for sin...rather a holy blood sacrifice substitute
openairpreacher 2 years ago
"then that proves Jesus was not the payment for sin...rather a holy blood sacrifice substitute " MM
So who will pay for your sins...you? You believe Jesus only forgives your sins you committed before you get saved and now it is up to YOU to keep free from sin, right?
KalElohim 2 years ago
KalElohim
this is where the truth comes in,,
I wont pay for my sins or I would go to hell forever.
Jesus does not pay for my sins or He would go to hell forever
so how do I get into Gods kingdom?
by the blood of Jesus! its a remission for sin,,washed and cleansed by the blood
because I love God and and other I choose to stop sinning! its up to me to stop and walk holy, God does not force people.
openairpreacher 2 years ago
"this is where the truth comes in,
I wont pay for my sins or I would go to hell forever.
Jesus does not pay for my sins or He would go to hell forever
so how do I get into Gods kingdom?
by the blood of Jesus! its a remission for sin,,washed and cleansed by the blood" MM
The wages of sin is death. Someone has to pay and Jesus didl for His elect. You talk about being washed and cleansed by the blood. Who paid the debt of sin?
You are making a distinction without a difference!
Jesus paid it all!
KalElohim 2 years ago
KalElohim
Jesus was never guilty of sinning!
He was a holy substitute,, the Blood is the remission of sin,.,, the payment for sin is hell forever....
calvinists deny the blood as remission for sin.. and turn Jesus into a indulgence
openairpreacher 2 years ago
This is the last time I am speaking to you, openairpreacher, but I felt that I had to rebuke you. Calvinists do not deny the blood as remission for sins, where do you get your information from?
I recommend that you read the Canons of the Synod of Dordt, to see exactly what it is we believe.
Obviously you are clueless, and any true Christian would at least want to know what it is they are refuting if they are going to so vehemently oppose someone.
You don't even have the decency to do that!
silmalila 2 years ago
I would like to learn. Unlike other Christians; I come with an open mind and heart. Don't sweat the small stuff.
Godsend01989 2 years ago
Its rare for someone to 'come with an open mind'.
For that I commend you; you truly are a Godsend!
silmalila 2 years ago
Well, he came to my university and let me tell you .... he is as crazy as he sounds! He was on campus for two days and ahh!
Girltalkbf 2 years ago
I believe it. Anyone who says he is without sin clearly does not understand the first thing about human nature and the atonement. This man is such an arrogant jerk, sorry, I hate to be so bold, but it is only the truth.
He has said the most vile things to me and he knows nothing of me.
silmalila 2 years ago 2
Oh, you have every right! He said some pretty things on campus and when I pulled out my bible and started to try and preach the "truth" he could not handle that and he said crazy things to me as well as the croud of the people!
Girltalkbf 2 years ago
I think 'crazy' is the operative word here. The man is obviously not right in the head. I hear that he is hanging out with the TicToc camp now, most likely the only people who will have him.
silmalila 2 years ago 2
"its up to me to stop & walk holy, God does not force people." Michael M
So we must do something to give the cross its power? That means at the end of the day, the glory is OURS. That man-centered thinking will send you to Hell. To GOD be ALL the glory, not most of the glory, ALL!
Michael, God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. If you pridefully believe that it is up to YOU to stop sinning, you are glorifying your self and exalting your own righteous ability to keep the law. Repent
kyleotto44 2 years ago
"because I love God and and other I choose to stop sinning!" Michael
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Gal 3:2-3)
kyleotto44 2 years ago
civil law does not justify sin...
the blood is the remission for sin!
faith without works is dead!
real christians walk in the spirit NOT flesh
that means they stop sinning!
openairpreacher 2 years ago
Sorry, you wouldn't know the Truth if you read about it in a book.
silmalila 2 years ago
My comment was to openair preacher
GraceAlone777 3 years ago
pre-dstination is the absurd conclusion of a notoriously uninformed animal, on an idiot plateau of mentality.
serpentineflame 3 years ago
pelagius was teaching truth against the gnostics paul warned of!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
You have ZERO idea what you are saying. WHY did you take down your Pelagius videos??? Oh I know and so does everyone else. No offense but you dont know the Scriptures NOR history
GraceAlone777 3 years ago
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
(Hebrews 10:26-27)
portka 3 years ago 2
BTW, Jesse has a new account "BibleTheology" and will be posting Theological Sessions/Classes and Sermons that he produces.
calvinistgirl 3 years ago
Don't attack me on punctuation, I have a bad habbit of posting before proof reading.
VENGEFULSPIRITof911 3 years ago
Hey guys, if you have children, I hope you don't ask them to obey you, because they can't do anything good, unless, of course, obedience is not a "good" thing. It is clear that if you can choose to do evil, then you can choose otherwise. To talk of inability is to talk nonsense. With this kind of contradictory logic, you couldn't even do third-grade math. When one only has one choice (evil), it is not a choice, and, therefore one who can only do evil is simply not blameworthy! It's not evil!
mgtheology 3 years ago 2
You hit the nail on the head. Why do we have to tell children what to do right if they're not doing something wrong, and why are they doing something wrong if they aren't born with a "wrong" nature?
LaneCh 3 years ago
Well you are stupid if you tell them to do it right, if they are doing things wrong by default and cannot help it. Get used to it.
AzaZeLgaming 2 years ago
"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." (1 John 3:7-9). The fact is, if you can post here, you can stop sinning!
mgtheology 3 years ago
mgtheology, read bofore you post. Otherwise, you look like a fool acting like you know everything. DON'T SPAM MY MSG BOX! I have been having 20 or so a day for the last week.
VENGEFULSPIRITof911 3 years ago
I agree, I hate it when someone limits peoples rights. Mostly the bill of rights. I see them getting kicked out soon enough. (liberals)
VENGEFULSPIRITof911 3 years ago
Morrell's account has been suspended. It's way past its time.
VENGEFULSPIRITof911 3 years ago
Wow! Unless he was violating some terms, I hope he wasn't suspended just because someone didn't like what he was saying. Even though I vehemently disagree with his theology, if he isn't violating any terms of Youtube, he should be allowed to have free speech.
LaneCh 3 years ago
Yeah, let's all get our "brown shirts" and start smashing windows and burning Jesse's Books. After all, who needs free speech anyway. Heil to you all!
mgtheology 3 years ago
Um... did you even read what I wrote? I said that unless he did something wrong, he shouldn't be suspended. I understand that eisegesis is a hard thing to overcome, but reread what I wrote, and you'll see that.
LaneCh 3 years ago
A very helpful video, I have read the council of orange. I think it addresses the Pelagian heresy perfectly. I pray jessemorrell listens to this and turns over fully, his corrupted will to Jesus. A denial of original sin is a denial of Gods Authority and Grace.
"Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature [2 Pet 2:14] children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Every aspect of man is corrupt.