You can say that Terminator isn't like any of these Ellison stories individually but frankly when you combine three major plot points from Soldier, Demon with a Glass Hand and I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream (which wasn't even part of the suit as far as I know) you know excactly where Cameron is picking his ideas up from. A super computer put in charge of a defence network that attempts to wipe out humanity after it becomes self-aware? I think the credit at the end and the 70K was just.
Point me to where I said it was a bad film? It's a wonderful film. But then the source material came from one of the most honoured and award-laden writers of our age. Which is why Ellison has a screen credit at the end of the movie. Not the only time Cameron has done this either. Do a Google search for James Cameron Poul Anderson (that is Poul with an "o") and have a look at the results.
"I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" by Harlan Ellison
From Wikipedia... "...109 years after the complete destruction of human civilization. The Cold War had escalated into a world war... As the war progressed, the three warring nations each created a super-computer capable of running the war... One day, one of the three computers becomes self aware... taking control of the entire war. It carries out campaigns of mass genocide, killing off all but four men and one woman."
@boltguy So The Terminator basis is The Soldier and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream which is fair enough and the opening scenes are familiar but I guess thats it
You're leaving out 'Demon With a Glass Hand', Ellison's second Outer Limits script. Soldiers from a future Earth war travel through time to the present day. They aim to kill "humanity's last hope" in order to affect the outcome of the future war. One of the characters is also a robot disguised as a human being. Sound familiar? Mix this with the Skynet elements of 'IHNMAIMS' and the visual similarities in the opening scenes of 'Soldier' and there you have 'Terminator'.
Recently, Harrison Ford had a line of dialogue in Cowboys and Aliens that is from my story Sailors on the Sea of Teeth. I scratch my head at this. I don't care that much, but they could have gotten the ok by calling me up and saying, "We want Harrison Ford to say one of your lines in Cowboys and Aliens."
And I would have said, "Great. Send me a cowboy hat."
It would have been that easy. Please help me in my drive to get Universal Studios to send me a hat.
Then the victorious aliens find him and then just have to shoot him, triggering the end of the world. This was used as a major plot device in the anime Blue Submarine no 6. I would have to go back and look at the manga, but I'm pretty sure it got added in.
So what did I do? I quit writing for about 4 years in frustration, and hoping it would shake my tail. There was a guy on a site I was active on that is now a film script writer with one popular movie under his belt and a tv show on the way.
I've had a few things borrowed from over the years. From Dust to Dust, a story about a nanotech planet, an invading space group reengineers the nano tech to attack an enemy on the planet and eat their ships, base, and equipment like in the beefed up Keneu Reeves version of The Day the Earth stood still.
Then in a story, The Last Wild Human, the protagonist is placed on a desert island and has his heart replaced with the trigger of a doomsday device.
I've had a few things borrowed from over the years, and I can relate to Harlan. I remember reading his I have no mouth but I must schream story, and it really stuck with me.
So yeah, this stuff does happen. What tripped up Cameron is that he acknowledged it, and Harlan seems very protective of his stuff. It was the perfect storm for a intellectual rights lawsuit.
Narrator in the video "forgot" to reference " Demon with the glass hand" ( an Ellison´s story about robots disguising as human beings) and " I have no mouth and must scream" ( another Ellison book about a supercomputer becoming self aware and destroying mankind) as inspiration for Terminator....
No mention of Cameron swiping from 'Demon With A Glass Hand' in this video; that's mentioned in the Prisoners Of Gravity interview with Harlan Ellison. Of course, that's not made by a James Cameron fanboy.
Cameron may be a visionary filmmaker, but he's never been that good a business man, unlike George Lucas. Lucas never got sued by his idol Akira Kurosawa over similarities Star Wars had to The Hidden Fortress, because Lucas handles things properly. Cameron's huge ego caused this lawsuit!
@Thorion1969 True, but had Lucas made Cameron's mistakes, he would've had many sci-fi writers, not just one, suing him for plagiarism. Dune author Frank Herbert felt that Star Wars was far too much like his book and he wasn't alone in thinking so in the sci-fi lit community. There was even an unofficial organization of sci-fi writers called the "We're Too Big to Sue George Lucas Society."
@TakumProti Yeah but if Star Wars ripped off anything, it was Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. Lucas wanted to do revivals of those two franchises but couldn't so he came up with Star Wars as a replacement.
"An apocalyptic soldier from the future and his enemy transported back to present day" isn't a "faint similiarity," that's essentially the plot of the first Terminator film minus Sarah Connor. The other sequels are all roughly variations on that single idea.
The fact that the other half of Cameron's movie isn't exactly the same as Ellison's story doesn't really mater, plagiarism suits are seldomly, if ever, based on two works being identical.
You make no mention of "The Demon With the Glass Hand", which is more damning. I see you have a pop-up saying you have more info debunking some of your own video. Most people turn that stuff off, and if this video is inaccurate, you should make a new one or delete this one. It has no place here.
Ya don't rip off Harlan Ellison, and it's clear that Jim Cameron did. If I were Cameron, I would have just asked Ellison to write the screenplay and give him a cut of the proceeds.
What about "The Demon With the Glass Hand," the other Ellison episode of "Outer Limits" upon which the controversy rests? This video leaves out that half of the story.
The idea of Cameron trying to sound cynical when his only other H'wood credit was "Piranah 2" is rather far-fetched. He has said that the genesis of the Terminator came from a fever dream of a metallic skull emerging from flames, so he probably mixed that idea with Ellison's stories and (like so many other Hollywood Hacks) claimed it as his own. But it is noteworthy that Ellison's series "The Starlost" is VERY similar to the ST:TOS episode "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".
The idea of Cameron trying to sound cynical when his only other H'wood credit was "Piranah 2" is rather far-fetched. He has said that the genesis of the Terminator came from a fever dream of a metallic skull emerging from flames, so he probably mixed that idea with Ellison's stories and (like so many other Hollywood Hacks) claimed it as his own. But it is noteworthy that Ellison's series "The Starlost" is VERY similar to the ST:TOS episode "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".
Why on earth do you, the poster, find the suit "odd" ?
Cameron ripped off Harlan's Soldier and Demon with a Glass Hand... Cameron was even arrogant enough to say, in print, that he 'ripped off a couple of Outer Limits segments'...
if he had an ounce of respect in his body, he would've gone to Harlan and said "Hey, I really like those stories - mind if I play with 'em a little bit?" but he didnt.. He just stole the concepts. He claims he's a writer, but he treats his colleagues like this??????
It really is a classic example of the Barbara Streisand Effect, wherein covering up something benign makes matters worse. Had Cameron simply left it at "Outer Limits" never mentioning Ellison, and/or if the producers had not blocked Ellison, there might have only been some harsh words from Harlan at best.
With all the conflicting info about this story, this is the most thoroughly researched version I've heard. It is a bit disappointing there's no mention of Demon with a Glass Hand, though.
I love Cameron's films, but I don't see the point of elevating him to sainthood. He screwed up, and paid far less than he should have. He admitted that he got the seed idea from Ellison's work, but along with Hemdale tried to stonewall.
Hasn't hurt his career any. I'll always be wondering next time I watch a Cameron film JUST where the idea came from...
Spreading the Muse: If Cameron really did say that he was inspired to make Avatar in 1995, it probably wasn't by Dances with Wolves which came out 5 years earlier. BUT...what came out that exact same year and bears a uncanny likeness to Avatar? Pocahontas. The characters, the story, the main themes...it's all exactly the same. Search for Pocahontas and Avatar, there's a great site detailing all the identical plot points.
I love just about everything Harlan Ellison wrote as his stories always have such deep moral values in them... the only downside is that lately he seems to get more fun out of suing as many people as possible, than writing stories with good morals again )-:
well, besides the opening scene of 'soldier' & 'the terminator' being similar, I found something else that I feel is also similar: in 'soldier' a cat is used to spot the enemy, and in 'the terminator' a dog is used to spot the enemy.
Ellison is angry because he hasn't been the least bit relevant for over 30 years. Every few years the pathetic old man sues someone to feel like he matters. He badmouths any sci-fi that's more successful than the teleplays for long-since-cancelled TV shows and dime novels he wrote. Which is to say he is very busy trying to piss on his numerous betters. Mentioning Star Wars is enough to give him hives. By the way, Harlan, I dare you to sue me, motherfrakker. It's not defamation if it's true.
Moral : Don't say that you "ripped off a couple Harlan Ellison stories" in TWO interviews. Ellison's a notorious bastard, Cameron should have known better.
If "Avatar" is a rip off of anything, its 'Dances with Wolves." For one thing, Cameron said he got the idea for Avatar in 1995, right around that same time. For another, you can go through Avatar and check off the total laundry list of cliche:
-The scene where the military guy gets separated
-Where is accepted probationally by the tribe
-Where he embarrasses himself in front of the tribe
(1) Ellison said was described as not litigious in a book by Marc Shapiro, plus his quote implies this. However, I've done more research since I made this and I'm nos aware that he definitely does sue a lot. So that was a mistake.
(2) The $400k came from that same book (the author interviewed Ellison, who's quoted extensively). I now think it's likely inaccurate, but that's there.
(3) You don't know why Hemdale settled.
(4) Posts with cursing and insults will be deleted.
Mate you left out that "demon with a glass hand" also an Ellison story. You skewed the information to serve your purposes of maling Cameron seem completly innocent. He's got a rep for having a huge ego, so his comments aren't that suprising. Also not to bash Cameron but he isn't really that much of a visonary, there are much better sci fi films out there then Terminator and Avatar. But this is just my opinion and I'm sure you will disagree.
Your info is wrong. The amount of money Ellesen got was only about $65k which is a fact he clearly states on video telling of the story. Also, the Termanator similarities do not just end with the charater in the alley. The termanator is based from 2 stories.
Plagerism has been happening in Hollywood for so long. Inspiration is one thing, outright plagerism is another.
There also "Demon With A Glass Hand." also about time travel and the guy being the "Hope for Humanity." That probably added to the Sarah/John Conner part of the story.
Also i like to add that everyone does it. all of our favorite movies from our favorite filmmakers were inspired in one way or another by other filmmakers or their movies. and the same goes for tv shows.
The Man WIth No Name - Snake Plissken
The Honeymooners - The Flintstones - King Of Queens
So you upload somebody ELSE'S video to your YouTube account....and then call OTHER people "copycats"? That would be like if I claimed that I invented the internal combustion engine because I bought a car. You created NOTHING.
Make your own crap, dude.
Anyway, I wasn't aware of that old Canadian program that you stole from when I made this video, but I've addressed it at my blog.
But think whatever you want about James Cameron or me or whoever else. Knock yourself out.
I don't know why people have to 'defend' their favorite wealthy filmmakers for them. There isn't anyone on earth that's a bigger fan of Terminator than me...but the truth is...HE RIPPED IT OFF. I won't defend him, he did it in Aliens, and now Avatar too, and I'm losing respect for the man. But this video is funny...
Hah...settling out of court for big cash is an admission of guilt. (Not that he didn't already 'admit' "RIPPING OFF" Harlan Ellison.) But it wouldn't be the first time, he also admitted 'stealing from Robert Heinlein' as well as copying True Lies, and a whole plethora of other sources of movies and novels. However, he's no where near as Bad as George Lucas, who has made a science of it. There are about 10 sources for Avatar, and in the end it says nothing new. He's 'cashing in' and thats it.
There is a second video on youtube about this, look in the related videos box on this page. Look at the one titled "Terminator Origins: Harlan Ellison" - it interviews him about this.
He says he was paid $65-75,000+an additional $5,000 to not discuss it for a certain period of time.
And as he points out, it is Soldier & Demon With A Glass Hand.
It also wasn't just in Starlog but a second interview on the set.
In that video, Ellison specifies that it was NOT Demon with a Glass Hand. Why would you lie about this? Is your honesty that cheap that you give it away over a YouTube video concerning two people you'll never meet?
Hey, if you want to lie, then I have zero interest in talking to you.
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@CameronFanSite Still waiting for your reply to Cameron's rip off of P. Anderson's "Call me Joe." PM when you're finished with that one. I'd love to see it.
@CameronFanSite I'm not asking for a long explanation because I'm not trying to bug you here, but why do you think Cameron didn't rip off "Call Me Joe?" Now first off, I think that there's only so much of a similarity between them, but why do you say so?
Because (a) it's the case of the boy who cried wolf (people have claimed Avatar "plagiarized" every existing piece of fiction ever), (b) there's no evidence of it and the burden of proof is on the accuser, (c) the similarities with 'Call Me Joe' were very basic.
I'm not saying that it's impossible that Avatar was inspired by Call Me Joe, I'm just saying that I don't see any special reason to believe it....and definitely don't think it's right to make insulting accusations.
when I watched terminator for the first time on screen, I knew I had seen it before.
I'm old enough to remember Soldier.
A for effort on the spin.
Yes, he's got a great career, yes he works hard, and wants his legacy to be "out there" but this is lame.
Objectivity: see if the Poltergeist people paid anything to the Rod Serling estate for plagiarizing the TZ episode where the little girl and her dog disappear into the radio. There are NO good NEW ideas.
You ended your post by saying "There are NO good NEW ideas", as if suggesting that all stories are retellings. I've heard this theorized many, many times: that all stories are variations of seven prime stories (amongst them, Frankenstein and Romeo & Juliet). I don't know if that's true.
I do know that, (a) Terminator was emphatically not plagiarized from Ellison's shlock and (b) if the minor influences were to count as plagiarism, 100% of writers would be bankrupt tomorrow.
Pretty much spot-on. He said he ripped off Ellison's stories, but, oh, he was just trying to sound like a blah, blah, blah, so let's just completely ignore that part. How the truth has a way of slipping out, Cameron's own Shadow talking, to compensate for his inflated ego. What you have, here, is a Cameron fan who is about as objective as a Pentecostal preacher at a Dawkin's lecture. There's no way he's going to be objective, not when it comes to his god.
3:15 .. whatever the "homage" thing...Cameron directed a sequel (Pirhana 2), another sequel (Aliens), and ripped off certain aspects of Soldier/Demon with a Glass Hand...then, he recreates Titanic...his only original ideas; Dark Angel (also a desolate future) and Avatar (surprise...a ruthless and colonialist future) mean that ..he did what he had to do to make it.
For the 731st time....there was no mention of Demon with a Glass Hand. Harlan Ellison SPECIFICALLY excluded that when he discussed it.
If you don't think that Cameron's original, that's your opinion. Good for you. Maybe, though, you'll be interested in the (at least) 6 cameras that he's built that he has the patents on. Or his beautiful artwork. Or his planning a manned mission to Mars for NASA (which they never followed up on 'cause Americans are effeminate cowards).
"Or his planning a manned mission to Mars for NASA (which they never followed up on 'cause Americans are effeminate cowards). "
I think he's a talented director, and I may actually go see Avatar for myself. btw, I think we have to solve that pesky "Van Allen Radiation belt" thing before we talk about a manned Mars mission. Now, a robotic mission with drones, thats a possibility. Americans arent effeminate cowards, theyre just human....like Cameron. me thinks a little fanboyish on Cameron?
The Van Allen Radiation Belt obviously isn't a problem. I think the Apollo program pretty much proved that.
I'm definitely a fan of Cameron's, but that's not sole basis for my defense of the plagiarism accusation. I'm doing that simply because it's the truth and it's frustrating to find that people believe bogus nonsense.
I highly recommend 'Avatar', for whatever my opinion is worth.
The Van Allen Radiation belt pretty much PREVENTED any other Country from ever repeating the feat - and thats why there wont be a Mars Program or a 2nd moon program - but thats a whole other issue...im sure to check out Avatar, and Ellison is a sour puss .. he always thought he didnt get his just due when they didnt pick up The Star Lost. He couldnt stand the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars "commercialized" good SF. He always had a beef, especially with Trek. I will check out Avatar, though.
But....the Apollo program did it. That's proof positive. You zip past it in a shielded spaceship at thousands of miles per hour. In a culture with X-Rays, microwaves, and chemotherapy....I don't think that that's a preventative obstacle.
I don't know if Ellison was sour or greedy or just had a huge lapse in good sense. But, one way or another, I think we agree that the plagiarism was bogus.
Sounds to me like Harlan just wanted some cash. He was also jealous how Cameron could just utterly slaughter everything Harlan have written in just one movie. Put simply, Harlan got owned and didn't like it a bit.
You might as well say that Harlan stole ideas from the Wizard of Oz.
The more that this event is examined, the more clear it is - in my opinion - that you're right: it was a money grab.
EVERY movie and TV show I know openly and unabashedly discusses taking shots and even entire premises from existing media. I could list 20 examples, easily. Joss Whedon joyfully discusses how the premise for Firefly/Serenity came from Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon....and that's the entire principle of the show, not just a few trivial scenes!
This might be a stretch but I always wondered if Cameron was inspired by some of Philip K. Dick's short stories such as Second Variey and Jon's World. I'm not saying he was. I just thought there was some similarities when I read it. Second Variety because of the infiltration units and Jon's world in particular because of the time travel from a future of war with machines.
I'll go with what you know thought and assume that even if Cameron could've possible read or at least come upon a PKD story (since he is obviously well read in the sci-fi field) has not mentioned it and would not see it as any bigger inspiration upon his work. From what it seems Cameron is still very open with what literature inspires him so if he doesn't mention PKD I'll leave him out of it. By the way, even if you have not read any books of PKD you might have seen Blade Runner or Total Recall?
Yes and I only mentioned it to simplify that you don't always need to read the stories or books to get a general idea of the author behind it which you seem to have. If you ever get the chance to read some of PKD (I haven't read the amount I would like but the ones I have is often very good) you should try at least a couple of short stories. Perhaps Second Variety, though it was made into a watchable adaptation as Screamers (the one with terminator-like aspects) or Impostor - some seven pages.
To be honest, I have (and I believe many, many others do, too) such a backlog of books I intend to read and/or peruse that I just can't make any promises to read any Phillip K. Dick stories. However, you've planted the idea in my head and so maybe one day when I'm bored and lazy I'll head on over to a Borders or the library and take a stab at one, eh?
Oh, I know CFS, I fully comprehend the difficulty to get the time to really read and appreciate certain literature and authors, the historical field is so grand I have even to this day problems to finish the many books I always begin to read at the same time but can't finish since I will find another one or pick up books that will be collecting dust on my bookshelf while I go on reading about other books that is waiting out there to be acknowledged.
Hey, just think whatever you want. I laid out the facts in a pretty dry manner but you're clearly not adhering to them.
I'll say these again, too: (1) Ellison would have had ZERO chance in court if Cameron hadn't made a comment to the reporter. That's how totally trivial the similarities between Terminator and Soldier are. (2) Demon with a Glass Hand has absolutely no reasonable similarities to Terminator.
Cameron did not juste state it to a reporter but also in an interview with Starlog, although it was not printed due to pressures from the production company. But the case was not just about the script. The idea of skynet also comes from an Ellison story called "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", the reason Ellison got curious was that he was not sent a copy of the script, but he normally got sent all scripts from films in production by default via the scrrenwriters guild, except terminator
First off, the reporter and Starlog are one and the same. So there goes that one.
Secondly, unless you can provide proof of your claim that Cameron copied 'I Have No Mouth', then just don't bring it up. There's no point in slandering people.
Finally, the issue wasn't that Ellison didn't get the script, but that he wasn't invited to the press screening. (That's according to Ellison.)
But, again, most all movies "plagiarize" more than The Terminator and yet they're not sued.
It may not rise to your level of a definition of plagerism..but it was Cameron's EGO...coupled with his and his partner Gale Ann Hurd's reticence to deal with the irascible Ellison that got him caught in a legal entanglement.
And as Ellison said in the "Terminator Origins" video posted elsewhere..it didn't have to be that way..Cameron should've just taken Ellison out to dinner instead of shooting his mouth off to Starlog and people on the movie set.
Congratulations for the video, I think exactly the way you do... those who deny James cameron talent and originality dont know much about movies. I love your video, 5/5
If Cameron's movies don't suit somebody's own personal tastes, that's obviously fine. But the petty criticism is just ignorance (and probably jealousy).
First off, sorry that you're so hysterically outraged that you have to curse at total strangers.
Secondly, I think that YOU'RE the one that should watch that video: Ellison says NOTHING about 'Demon w/ Glass Hand''.
'Soldier' is the ONLY story Ellison has mentioned in the 'Terminator' settlement. Rightfully so: it's the only episode with similarities to 'Terminator'.
The 'Demon w/ Glass Hand' clips were injected into that video later on. There was no logical reason for it.
Naw. I just hate people who try to re-write History THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RESOLVED just because they have a boner for a certain movie director. This is just so people who happen to see this hatchet job get perspective on what really happened.
You're the only one who's gotten facts wrong, not me.
Other than that, I guess this just means that you don't like the video, which is good new for both of us: I don't have to worry about reading more of your curse-filled inane posts, and you don't have to watch my videos. A perfect resolution!
If you think that that qualifies as plagiarism, then nobody can ever write anything 'cause of lawsuits.
Secondly, I could rattle off no fewer than a five stories with the same idea (including 'The Time Machine'). Harlan Ellison doesn't own the idea of time travel. Sorry.
By your standard, Cameron could sue 'The Matrix':
"In the future, machines and man wage war decimating the world and machines enslave man."
I didn't say that it qualified as plagerism....I was merely reacting to YOUR statement that Ellison's "Soldier" was the ONLY Outer Limits episode w/ similarities to Cameron's "Terminator"..I think even you can see the similarities between Ellison's "DWGH" and "Terminator" .
( BTW..I'm a HUGE Cameron fan myself.."Aliens" & "Abyss" being two of my all time favorites)
I think YOU should watch the "Terminator Origins:Harlan Ellison" video again...
" Ellison says NOTHING about 'Demon With A Glass Hand" "???
What does he say at a minute-thirty eight into that vid..and again at six minutes twenty nine when the screenwriter Tracy Torme recounts the on set conversation w/ Cameron?
Sounds like he had plenty to say about BOTH "OL" episodes.
Once again (how many times do we have to go through this?) HARLAN ELLISON NEVER ALLEGED THAT THERE WERE SIMILIARITIES TO DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND.
The totally irrelevant quote you just made me waste my time tracking down did not allege this. (Incidentally, he was mis-quoting Cameron then, anyhow: I've read what Cameron said to Starlog. That ain't it.)
I would GUESS that (a) the fact that it was the only other episode of 'The Outer Limits' written by Ellison caused people to lump it in, (b) the fact that Cameron (apparently) said he ripped off "a couple of" Ellison's stories made people assume, and (c) it appears that Ellison's fans are kinda territorial and defensive (hey, I am about some writers, too!) and so maybe they just felt it made Ellison look better.
In my opinion, 'Demon with a Glass Hand' actually has more in common with 'The Terminator' than 'Soldier,' but there is more than a passing similarity there, too.
Why do you go out of your way to defend Cameron? Why do you think Cameron wanted to sound like a cynical insider when he said he ripped off old 'Outer Limits' episodes? Sounds to me like he told the truth.
"The Terminator" was a good (not great) movie... and Ellison deserved what he got paid for providing the foundation.
I think Terminator's great. Some people probably don't like it at all. You think it's okay. Where does that get us?
Secondly, my claim that DWAGH wasn't a reference for Terminator came from the fact that there's zero record of it. Ellison goes out of his way to say that it was Solider - NOT Demon - at issue.
90% of movies "plagiarize" worse than Terminator ('Star Wars', 'Jurassic Park', etc.), and yet they don't have to pay off the films that inspire them. This was a clear money grab.
Watch "Terminator Origins: Harlan Ellison" That's all you need to know. You left out the other story Cameron "homaged" which was "Demon with a Glass Hand.
You can say that Terminator isn't like any of these Ellison stories individually but frankly when you combine three major plot points from Soldier, Demon with a Glass Hand and I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream (which wasn't even part of the suit as far as I know) you know excactly where Cameron is picking his ideas up from. A super computer put in charge of a defence network that attempts to wipe out humanity after it becomes self-aware? I think the credit at the end and the 70K was just.
googlyarsetube 2 months ago 2
Point me to where I said it was a bad film? It's a wonderful film. But then the source material came from one of the most honoured and award-laden writers of our age. Which is why Ellison has a screen credit at the end of the movie. Not the only time Cameron has done this either. Do a Google search for James Cameron Poul Anderson (that is Poul with an "o") and have a look at the results.
boltguy 2 months ago 2
"I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" by Harlan Ellison
From Wikipedia... "...109 years after the complete destruction of human civilization. The Cold War had escalated into a world war... As the war progressed, the three warring nations each created a super-computer capable of running the war... One day, one of the three computers becomes self aware... taking control of the entire war. It carries out campaigns of mass genocide, killing off all but four men and one woman."
Sound familiar?
boltguy 3 months ago 2
@boltguy So The Terminator basis is The Soldier and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream which is fair enough and the opening scenes are familiar but I guess thats it
Mitchx42 3 months ago
@Mitchx42
You're leaving out 'Demon With a Glass Hand', Ellison's second Outer Limits script. Soldiers from a future Earth war travel through time to the present day. They aim to kill "humanity's last hope" in order to affect the outcome of the future war. One of the characters is also a robot disguised as a human being. Sound familiar? Mix this with the Skynet elements of 'IHNMAIMS' and the visual similarities in the opening scenes of 'Soldier' and there you have 'Terminator'.
boltguy 3 months ago 2
@boltguy Hmm but that dosent mean Terminator is a bad film
Mitchx42 3 months ago
So I wonder if it is him.
Recently, Harrison Ford had a line of dialogue in Cowboys and Aliens that is from my story Sailors on the Sea of Teeth. I scratch my head at this. I don't care that much, but they could have gotten the ok by calling me up and saying, "We want Harrison Ford to say one of your lines in Cowboys and Aliens."
And I would have said, "Great. Send me a cowboy hat."
It would have been that easy. Please help me in my drive to get Universal Studios to send me a hat.
secretsquirrel726 3 months ago 2
Then the victorious aliens find him and then just have to shoot him, triggering the end of the world. This was used as a major plot device in the anime Blue Submarine no 6. I would have to go back and look at the manga, but I'm pretty sure it got added in.
So what did I do? I quit writing for about 4 years in frustration, and hoping it would shake my tail. There was a guy on a site I was active on that is now a film script writer with one popular movie under his belt and a tv show on the way.
secretsquirrel726 3 months ago
I've had a few things borrowed from over the years. From Dust to Dust, a story about a nanotech planet, an invading space group reengineers the nano tech to attack an enemy on the planet and eat their ships, base, and equipment like in the beefed up Keneu Reeves version of The Day the Earth stood still.
Then in a story, The Last Wild Human, the protagonist is placed on a desert island and has his heart replaced with the trigger of a doomsday device.
secretsquirrel726 3 months ago
I've had a few things borrowed from over the years, and I can relate to Harlan. I remember reading his I have no mouth but I must schream story, and it really stuck with me.
So yeah, this stuff does happen. What tripped up Cameron is that he acknowledged it, and Harlan seems very protective of his stuff. It was the perfect storm for a intellectual rights lawsuit.
secretsquirrel726 3 months ago
Narrator in the video "forgot" to reference " Demon with the glass hand" ( an Ellison´s story about robots disguising as human beings) and " I have no mouth and must scream" ( another Ellison book about a supercomputer becoming self aware and destroying mankind) as inspiration for Terminator....
thedorodevil 5 months ago
You know ... you can talk all you want, but your name already disqualifies you from any neutral conversation about a certain director.
TheHarkonnenScum 7 months ago 2
@TheHarkonnenScum great screen name
feyd8194 7 months ago
nice whitewash naration
dryduck 7 months ago 4
The concepts of soldiers, time travel, war, hunt, fire, weapons existed long before science fiction was named as such.
brav0wing 7 months ago
"His awe-inspiring resume'...can't believe he said those lines and expects us to think he's unbiased towards James Cameron.
Thorion1969 8 months ago
No mention of Cameron swiping from 'Demon With A Glass Hand' in this video; that's mentioned in the Prisoners Of Gravity interview with Harlan Ellison. Of course, that's not made by a James Cameron fanboy.
Cameron may be a visionary filmmaker, but he's never been that good a business man, unlike George Lucas. Lucas never got sued by his idol Akira Kurosawa over similarities Star Wars had to The Hidden Fortress, because Lucas handles things properly. Cameron's huge ego caused this lawsuit!
Thorion1969 8 months ago 3
@Thorion1969 True, but had Lucas made Cameron's mistakes, he would've had many sci-fi writers, not just one, suing him for plagiarism. Dune author Frank Herbert felt that Star Wars was far too much like his book and he wasn't alone in thinking so in the sci-fi lit community. There was even an unofficial organization of sci-fi writers called the "We're Too Big to Sue George Lucas Society."
TakumProti 8 months ago
@TakumProti Yeah but if Star Wars ripped off anything, it was Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. Lucas wanted to do revivals of those two franchises but couldn't so he came up with Star Wars as a replacement.
pytko3 4 months ago
oh poor cameron!
italouruguayricano 8 months ago
"An apocalyptic soldier from the future and his enemy transported back to present day" isn't a "faint similiarity," that's essentially the plot of the first Terminator film minus Sarah Connor. The other sequels are all roughly variations on that single idea.
The fact that the other half of Cameron's movie isn't exactly the same as Ellison's story doesn't really mater, plagiarism suits are seldomly, if ever, based on two works being identical.
marlboroman1985 9 months ago 4
What is the name of the lawyer who represented Harlan Ellison in this Terminator case? If you know the name please email me. Thanks.
merlinado 1 year ago
You make no mention of "The Demon With the Glass Hand", which is more damning. I see you have a pop-up saying you have more info debunking some of your own video. Most people turn that stuff off, and if this video is inaccurate, you should make a new one or delete this one. It has no place here.
YellowGunMan 1 year ago 4
Call Me Joe, 1957. James Cameron is a thief, look it up.
aaustinvaughn1 1 year ago 3
@aaustinvaughn1 Good catch.
marlboroman1985 9 months ago
interesting story, thxs!
360shon 1 year ago
Ya don't rip off Harlan Ellison, and it's clear that Jim Cameron did. If I were Cameron, I would have just asked Ellison to write the screenplay and give him a cut of the proceeds.
theironworker781 1 year ago 6
The only novice here is the guy who made this video.
IamNotTheMoon 1 year ago 3
What about "The Demon With the Glass Hand," the other Ellison episode of "Outer Limits" upon which the controversy rests? This video leaves out that half of the story.
Onlymusical 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The idea of Cameron trying to sound cynical when his only other H'wood credit was "Piranah 2" is rather far-fetched. He has said that the genesis of the Terminator came from a fever dream of a metallic skull emerging from flames, so he probably mixed that idea with Ellison's stories and (like so many other Hollywood Hacks) claimed it as his own. But it is noteworthy that Ellison's series "The Starlost" is VERY similar to the ST:TOS episode "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".
BumwhiffleZoopstanky 1 year ago
The idea of Cameron trying to sound cynical when his only other H'wood credit was "Piranah 2" is rather far-fetched. He has said that the genesis of the Terminator came from a fever dream of a metallic skull emerging from flames, so he probably mixed that idea with Ellison's stories and (like so many other Hollywood Hacks) claimed it as his own. But it is noteworthy that Ellison's series "The Starlost" is VERY similar to the ST:TOS episode "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".
BumwhiffleZoopstanky 1 year ago 2
Why on earth do you, the poster, find the suit "odd" ?
Cameron ripped off Harlan's Soldier and Demon with a Glass Hand... Cameron was even arrogant enough to say, in print, that he 'ripped off a couple of Outer Limits segments'...
if he had an ounce of respect in his body, he would've gone to Harlan and said "Hey, I really like those stories - mind if I play with 'em a little bit?" but he didnt.. He just stole the concepts. He claims he's a writer, but he treats his colleagues like this??????
hcvang 1 year ago
It really is a classic example of the Barbara Streisand Effect, wherein covering up something benign makes matters worse. Had Cameron simply left it at "Outer Limits" never mentioning Ellison, and/or if the producers had not blocked Ellison, there might have only been some harsh words from Harlan at best.
With all the conflicting info about this story, this is the most thoroughly researched version I've heard. It is a bit disappointing there's no mention of Demon with a Glass Hand, though.
watarukannuzuki 1 year ago
No mention of Ellison's other involved story, "The Man With the Glass Hand." Astonishing.
Impowers 1 year ago
I love Cameron's films, but I don't see the point of elevating him to sainthood. He screwed up, and paid far less than he should have. He admitted that he got the seed idea from Ellison's work, but along with Hemdale tried to stonewall.
Hasn't hurt his career any. I'll always be wondering next time I watch a Cameron film JUST where the idea came from...
BradiKal61 1 year ago 2
Spreading the Muse: If Cameron really did say that he was inspired to make Avatar in 1995, it probably wasn't by Dances with Wolves which came out 5 years earlier. BUT...what came out that exact same year and bears a uncanny likeness to Avatar? Pocahontas. The characters, the story, the main themes...it's all exactly the same. Search for Pocahontas and Avatar, there's a great site detailing all the identical plot points.
squeakbutt 1 year ago
I love just about everything Harlan Ellison wrote as his stories always have such deep moral values in them... the only downside is that lately he seems to get more fun out of suing as many people as possible, than writing stories with good morals again )-:
Supenmanu 1 year ago
BUSTED.
novaflo339 1 year ago
well, besides the opening scene of 'soldier' & 'the terminator' being similar, I found something else that I feel is also similar: in 'soldier' a cat is used to spot the enemy, and in 'the terminator' a dog is used to spot the enemy.
AntheaWasHere 1 year ago
Ellison is angry because he hasn't been the least bit relevant for over 30 years. Every few years the pathetic old man sues someone to feel like he matters. He badmouths any sci-fi that's more successful than the teleplays for long-since-cancelled TV shows and dime novels he wrote. Which is to say he is very busy trying to piss on his numerous betters. Mentioning Star Wars is enough to give him hives. By the way, Harlan, I dare you to sue me, motherfrakker. It's not defamation if it's true.
DarthLucifer08 1 year ago
Moral : Don't say that you "ripped off a couple Harlan Ellison stories" in TWO interviews. Ellison's a notorious bastard, Cameron should have known better.
pureevilfnord 1 year ago
those 2 Ellison episodes are always mentioned but what about "The Man Who Was Never Born"? that one is also very similar to Terminator 1 and 2.
fleshtrashheat 1 year ago
Well, Jim Cameron was bragging. C'mon.
AreYouDoneSuckingYet 1 year ago
If "Avatar" is a rip off of anything, its 'Dances with Wolves." For one thing, Cameron said he got the idea for Avatar in 1995, right around that same time. For another, you can go through Avatar and check off the total laundry list of cliche:
-The scene where the military guy gets separated
-Where is accepted probationally by the tribe
-Where he embarrasses himself in front of the tribe
-Where he proves himself in front of the tribe
etc etc
Perfect color by number.
SpreadingtheMuse 1 year ago
this is pathetic
ellison got far less than 400k and the studio settled out of court because they knew they would lose in court
and ellison has never said he isnt a litigious person...he loves suing people
i hope he sues the maker of this vid for being a dumbass
brabon1 1 year ago 17
@brabon1
(1) Ellison said was described as not litigious in a book by Marc Shapiro, plus his quote implies this. However, I've done more research since I made this and I'm nos aware that he definitely does sue a lot. So that was a mistake.
(2) The $400k came from that same book (the author interviewed Ellison, who's quoted extensively). I now think it's likely inaccurate, but that's there.
(3) You don't know why Hemdale settled.
(4) Posts with cursing and insults will be deleted.
CameronFanSite 1 year ago
@CameronFanSite Can you also delete the truth?
uranian99 9 months ago 3
Sophia Stewarts claimes that she wrote both The Terminator and The Matrix
i dont know if it's true or not.
navylaks2 1 year ago
Mate you left out that "demon with a glass hand" also an Ellison story. You skewed the information to serve your purposes of maling Cameron seem completly innocent. He's got a rep for having a huge ego, so his comments aren't that suprising. Also not to bash Cameron but he isn't really that much of a visonary, there are much better sci fi films out there then Terminator and Avatar. But this is just my opinion and I'm sure you will disagree.
almanacofsleep 1 year ago
you forgot "Demon with a glass hand" where the similarities continue with one man being the only thing that can save the humans in the future.
Metalhead197 1 year ago
Comment removed
Llewellyn2844 2 years ago
why would any1 be a fan of cameron its more the acting that made the films great i haven't seen t2 tho
oc445 2 years ago
its not just the actors. The actors are directed by Cameron. And cameron has a lot more to do with what makes the movie special than you might think.
Bladerunner507 1 year ago
Cameron hasn't written an original film in his life.
Period. If it weren't for other peoples' ideas, he'd have no ideas at all.
Gilbavel 2 years ago
@Gilbavel every director has their inspiration
brunobb1 1 year ago
Your info is wrong. The amount of money Ellesen got was only about $65k which is a fact he clearly states on video telling of the story. Also, the Termanator similarities do not just end with the charater in the alley. The termanator is based from 2 stories.
Plagerism has been happening in Hollywood for so long. Inspiration is one thing, outright plagerism is another.
TheFutureLooksGrimm 2 years ago
There also "Demon With A Glass Hand." also about time travel and the guy being the "Hope for Humanity." That probably added to the Sarah/John Conner part of the story.
Also i like to add that everyone does it. all of our favorite movies from our favorite filmmakers were inspired in one way or another by other filmmakers or their movies. and the same goes for tv shows.
The Man WIth No Name - Snake Plissken
The Honeymooners - The Flintstones - King Of Queens
It's called inspiration.
codename617 2 years ago
What I'm really wondering is how did you ever find the strength to pull your lips away from Cameron's butt long enough to narrate this video?
CousinZoid 2 years ago 25
COPYCAT
EddieAngstrom 2 years ago
So you upload somebody ELSE'S video to your YouTube account....and then call OTHER people "copycats"? That would be like if I claimed that I invented the internal combustion engine because I bought a car. You created NOTHING.
Make your own crap, dude.
Anyway, I wasn't aware of that old Canadian program that you stole from when I made this video, but I've addressed it at my blog.
But think whatever you want about James Cameron or me or whoever else. Knock yourself out.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
not to mention...a strange 'copy' off of the one I posted...albeit with a new spin...you'll never get as many views though...
EddieAngstrom 2 years ago
I don't know why people have to 'defend' their favorite wealthy filmmakers for them. There isn't anyone on earth that's a bigger fan of Terminator than me...but the truth is...HE RIPPED IT OFF. I won't defend him, he did it in Aliens, and now Avatar too, and I'm losing respect for the man. But this video is funny...
EddieAngstrom 2 years ago
Hah...settling out of court for big cash is an admission of guilt. (Not that he didn't already 'admit' "RIPPING OFF" Harlan Ellison.) But it wouldn't be the first time, he also admitted 'stealing from Robert Heinlein' as well as copying True Lies, and a whole plethora of other sources of movies and novels. However, he's no where near as Bad as George Lucas, who has made a science of it. There are about 10 sources for Avatar, and in the end it says nothing new. He's 'cashing in' and thats it.
EddieAngstrom 2 years ago
CameronFanSite your downplay what occured, there isn't just Soldier but also Demon With A Glass Hand.
And it was $65,000
KentAllard 2 years ago 2
KentAllard:
Re: Demon with a Glass Hand. Please read the rest of these comments.
Re: The money. The $400k figure - which probably is wrong - came from a book by showbiz writer Marc Shapiro in which he interviewed Ellison.
So where did you get the $65k figure and are you certain it's right?
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
There is a second video on youtube about this, look in the related videos box on this page. Look at the one titled "Terminator Origins: Harlan Ellison" - it interviews him about this.
He says he was paid $65-75,000+an additional $5,000 to not discuss it for a certain period of time.
And as he points out, it is Soldier & Demon With A Glass Hand.
It also wasn't just in Starlog but a second interview on the set.
KentAllard 2 years ago 5
God almighty this is pathetic.
In that video, Ellison specifies that it was NOT Demon with a Glass Hand. Why would you lie about this? Is your honesty that cheap that you give it away over a YouTube video concerning two people you'll never meet?
Hey, if you want to lie, then I have zero interest in talking to you.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
lets ignore everything
KentAllard 2 years ago
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keytoothed 2 years ago
Wow, that's, uh....that's DEEP, dude.
You're above all those, like, "ideas" and "information" and "arguments". Just repeat stuff like a schizophrenic and you're cool.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
@CameronFanSite Still waiting for your reply to Cameron's rip off of P. Anderson's "Call me Joe." PM when you're finished with that one. I'd love to see it.
keytoothed 2 years ago
He didn't rip it off. There's my reply.
Anyway, you're obviously not a fan of James Cameron or the least bit knowledgeable, so you don't have to bother posting here.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
@CameronFanSite I'm not asking for a long explanation because I'm not trying to bug you here, but why do you think Cameron didn't rip off "Call Me Joe?" Now first off, I think that there's only so much of a similarity between them, but why do you say so?
TakumProti 1 year ago
@TakumProti
Because (a) it's the case of the boy who cried wolf (people have claimed Avatar "plagiarized" every existing piece of fiction ever), (b) there's no evidence of it and the burden of proof is on the accuser, (c) the similarities with 'Call Me Joe' were very basic.
I'm not saying that it's impossible that Avatar was inspired by Call Me Joe, I'm just saying that I don't see any special reason to believe it....and definitely don't think it's right to make insulting accusations.
CameronFanSite 1 year ago 2
4:58: Revisionist Sophistry.
when I watched terminator for the first time on screen, I knew I had seen it before.
I'm old enough to remember Soldier.
A for effort on the spin.
Yes, he's got a great career, yes he works hard, and wants his legacy to be "out there" but this is lame.
Objectivity: see if the Poltergeist people paid anything to the Rod Serling estate for plagiarizing the TZ episode where the little girl and her dog disappear into the radio. There are NO good NEW ideas.
GuitarGare 2 years ago
You ended your post by saying "There are NO good NEW ideas", as if suggesting that all stories are retellings. I've heard this theorized many, many times: that all stories are variations of seven prime stories (amongst them, Frankenstein and Romeo & Juliet). I don't know if that's true.
I do know that, (a) Terminator was emphatically not plagiarized from Ellison's shlock and (b) if the minor influences were to count as plagiarism, 100% of writers would be bankrupt tomorrow.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Pretty much spot-on. He said he ripped off Ellison's stories, but, oh, he was just trying to sound like a blah, blah, blah, so let's just completely ignore that part. How the truth has a way of slipping out, Cameron's own Shadow talking, to compensate for his inflated ego. What you have, here, is a Cameron fan who is about as objective as a Pentecostal preacher at a Dawkin's lecture. There's no way he's going to be objective, not when it comes to his god.
keytoothed 2 years ago
This ain't goin in MY favorites.
stalepieonceagain 2 years ago
3:15 .. whatever the "homage" thing...Cameron directed a sequel (Pirhana 2), another sequel (Aliens), and ripped off certain aspects of Soldier/Demon with a Glass Hand...then, he recreates Titanic...his only original ideas; Dark Angel (also a desolate future) and Avatar (surprise...a ruthless and colonialist future) mean that ..he did what he had to do to make it.
invincibleironman3 2 years ago
For the 731st time....there was no mention of Demon with a Glass Hand. Harlan Ellison SPECIFICALLY excluded that when he discussed it.
If you don't think that Cameron's original, that's your opinion. Good for you. Maybe, though, you'll be interested in the (at least) 6 cameras that he's built that he has the patents on. Or his beautiful artwork. Or his planning a manned mission to Mars for NASA (which they never followed up on 'cause Americans are effeminate cowards).
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
"Or his planning a manned mission to Mars for NASA (which they never followed up on 'cause Americans are effeminate cowards). "
I think he's a talented director, and I may actually go see Avatar for myself. btw, I think we have to solve that pesky "Van Allen Radiation belt" thing before we talk about a manned Mars mission. Now, a robotic mission with drones, thats a possibility. Americans arent effeminate cowards, theyre just human....like Cameron. me thinks a little fanboyish on Cameron?
invincibleironman3 2 years ago
The Van Allen Radiation Belt obviously isn't a problem. I think the Apollo program pretty much proved that.
I'm definitely a fan of Cameron's, but that's not sole basis for my defense of the plagiarism accusation. I'm doing that simply because it's the truth and it's frustrating to find that people believe bogus nonsense.
I highly recommend 'Avatar', for whatever my opinion is worth.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
The Van Allen Radiation belt pretty much PREVENTED any other Country from ever repeating the feat - and thats why there wont be a Mars Program or a 2nd moon program - but thats a whole other issue...im sure to check out Avatar, and Ellison is a sour puss .. he always thought he didnt get his just due when they didnt pick up The Star Lost. He couldnt stand the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars "commercialized" good SF. He always had a beef, especially with Trek. I will check out Avatar, though.
invincibleironman3 2 years ago
RE: Van Allen Radiation Belt.
But....the Apollo program did it. That's proof positive. You zip past it in a shielded spaceship at thousands of miles per hour. In a culture with X-Rays, microwaves, and chemotherapy....I don't think that that's a preventative obstacle.
I don't know if Ellison was sour or greedy or just had a huge lapse in good sense. But, one way or another, I think we agree that the plagiarism was bogus.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Sounds to me like Harlan just wanted some cash. He was also jealous how Cameron could just utterly slaughter everything Harlan have written in just one movie. Put simply, Harlan got owned and didn't like it a bit.
You might as well say that Harlan stole ideas from the Wizard of Oz.
farbrorknark 2 years ago
The more that this event is examined, the more clear it is - in my opinion - that you're right: it was a money grab.
EVERY movie and TV show I know openly and unabashedly discusses taking shots and even entire premises from existing media. I could list 20 examples, easily. Joss Whedon joyfully discusses how the premise for Firefly/Serenity came from Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon....and that's the entire principle of the show, not just a few trivial scenes!
Anyway, what can you do?
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
This might be a stretch but I always wondered if Cameron was inspired by some of Philip K. Dick's short stories such as Second Variey and Jon's World. I'm not saying he was. I just thought there was some similarities when I read it. Second Variety because of the infiltration units and Jon's world in particular because of the time travel from a future of war with machines.
BuffalooButterflies 2 years ago
Ya know, I couldn't really say. Of all the sci-fi authors Cameron has cited, I've never heard him mention Phillip K. Dick.
I really don't know, honestly. (And I don't think I've ever read any of his books.)
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
I'll go with what you know thought and assume that even if Cameron could've possible read or at least come upon a PKD story (since he is obviously well read in the sci-fi field) has not mentioned it and would not see it as any bigger inspiration upon his work. From what it seems Cameron is still very open with what literature inspires him so if he doesn't mention PKD I'll leave him out of it. By the way, even if you have not read any books of PKD you might have seen Blade Runner or Total Recall?
BuffalooButterflies 2 years ago
Oh, sure I know of him! Phillip K. Dick is a pretty famous name.
Yeah, I've seen 'Blade Runner' and 'Minority Report' and 'A Scanner Darkly' and 'Total Recall'. You betcha.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Yes and I only mentioned it to simplify that you don't always need to read the stories or books to get a general idea of the author behind it which you seem to have. If you ever get the chance to read some of PKD (I haven't read the amount I would like but the ones I have is often very good) you should try at least a couple of short stories. Perhaps Second Variety, though it was made into a watchable adaptation as Screamers (the one with terminator-like aspects) or Impostor - some seven pages.
BuffalooButterflies 2 years ago
Buffalloo:
To be honest, I have (and I believe many, many others do, too) such a backlog of books I intend to read and/or peruse that I just can't make any promises to read any Phillip K. Dick stories. However, you've planted the idea in my head and so maybe one day when I'm bored and lazy I'll head on over to a Borders or the library and take a stab at one, eh?
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Oh, I know CFS, I fully comprehend the difficulty to get the time to really read and appreciate certain literature and authors, the historical field is so grand I have even to this day problems to finish the many books I always begin to read at the same time but can't finish since I will find another one or pick up books that will be collecting dust on my bookshelf while I go on reading about other books that is waiting out there to be acknowledged.
BuffalooButterflies 2 years ago
Hey, just think whatever you want. I laid out the facts in a pretty dry manner but you're clearly not adhering to them.
I'll say these again, too: (1) Ellison would have had ZERO chance in court if Cameron hadn't made a comment to the reporter. That's how totally trivial the similarities between Terminator and Soldier are. (2) Demon with a Glass Hand has absolutely no reasonable similarities to Terminator.
But like I said, just think whatever you want.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Cameron did not juste state it to a reporter but also in an interview with Starlog, although it was not printed due to pressures from the production company. But the case was not just about the script. The idea of skynet also comes from an Ellison story called "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", the reason Ellison got curious was that he was not sent a copy of the script, but he normally got sent all scripts from films in production by default via the scrrenwriters guild, except terminator
reiknir 2 years ago
First off, the reporter and Starlog are one and the same. So there goes that one.
Secondly, unless you can provide proof of your claim that Cameron copied 'I Have No Mouth', then just don't bring it up. There's no point in slandering people.
Finally, the issue wasn't that Ellison didn't get the script, but that he wasn't invited to the press screening. (That's according to Ellison.)
But, again, most all movies "plagiarize" more than The Terminator and yet they're not sued.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Face It.
It may not rise to your level of a definition of plagerism..but it was Cameron's EGO...coupled with his and his partner Gale Ann Hurd's reticence to deal with the irascible Ellison that got him caught in a legal entanglement.
And as Ellison said in the "Terminator Origins" video posted elsewhere..it didn't have to be that way..Cameron should've just taken Ellison out to dinner instead of shooting his mouth off to Starlog and people on the movie set.
Dixiekraut 2 years ago
Congratulations for the video, I think exactly the way you do... those who deny James cameron talent and originality dont know much about movies. I love your video, 5/5
jptributer 2 years ago
Jptributer,
I appreciate that and I totally agree with you.
If Cameron's movies don't suit somebody's own personal tastes, that's obviously fine. But the petty criticism is just ignorance (and probably jealousy).
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Teabonesteak:
First off, sorry that you're so hysterically outraged that you have to curse at total strangers.
Secondly, I think that YOU'RE the one that should watch that video: Ellison says NOTHING about 'Demon w/ Glass Hand''.
'Soldier' is the ONLY story Ellison has mentioned in the 'Terminator' settlement. Rightfully so: it's the only episode with similarities to 'Terminator'.
The 'Demon w/ Glass Hand' clips were injected into that video later on. There was no logical reason for it.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Naw. I just hate people who try to re-write History THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RESOLVED just because they have a boner for a certain movie director. This is just so people who happen to see this hatchet job get perspective on what really happened.
Teabonesteak 2 years ago
You're the only one who's gotten facts wrong, not me.
Other than that, I guess this just means that you don't like the video, which is good new for both of us: I don't have to worry about reading more of your curse-filled inane posts, and you don't have to watch my videos. A perfect resolution!
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
H.Ellison's "Soldier" is the ONLY Outer Limits episode w/ similarities to Cameron's "Terminator" ?
Are you kidding ?
A guy from the future comes back to our present to do battle w/ evil entities to assure the survival of the human race ?
( "Demon With A Glass Hand" )
Nah..no similarity there.
Dixiekraut 2 years ago
Dixie,
If you think that that qualifies as plagiarism, then nobody can ever write anything 'cause of lawsuits.
Secondly, I could rattle off no fewer than a five stories with the same idea (including 'The Time Machine'). Harlan Ellison doesn't own the idea of time travel. Sorry.
By your standard, Cameron could sue 'The Matrix':
"In the future, machines and man wage war decimating the world and machines enslave man."
The point is: nobody owns ideas.
And again, Ellison never cited DWAGH.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Comment removed
Dixiekraut 2 years ago
I didn't say that it qualified as plagerism....I was merely reacting to YOUR statement that Ellison's "Soldier" was the ONLY Outer Limits episode w/ similarities to Cameron's "Terminator"..I think even you can see the similarities between Ellison's "DWGH" and "Terminator" .
( BTW..I'm a HUGE Cameron fan myself.."Aliens" & "Abyss" being two of my all time favorites)
Dixiekraut 2 years ago
Skynet wasn't trying to enslave Man, it was trying to kill Him.
stalepieonceagain 2 years ago
I think YOU should watch the "Terminator Origins:Harlan Ellison" video again...
" Ellison says NOTHING about 'Demon With A Glass Hand" "???
What does he say at a minute-thirty eight into that vid..and again at six minutes twenty nine when the screenwriter Tracy Torme recounts the on set conversation w/ Cameron?
Sounds like he had plenty to say about BOTH "OL" episodes.
Dixiekraut 2 years ago
Once again (how many times do we have to go through this?) HARLAN ELLISON NEVER ALLEGED THAT THERE WERE SIMILIARITIES TO DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND.
The totally irrelevant quote you just made me waste my time tracking down did not allege this. (Incidentally, he was mis-quoting Cameron then, anyhow: I've read what Cameron said to Starlog. That ain't it.)
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
If that's the case, what I'd like to know is how did "Demon with a Glass Hand" got affiliated with this incident.
TakumProti 2 years ago
Takum,
The honest answer is that I really don't know.
I would GUESS that (a) the fact that it was the only other episode of 'The Outer Limits' written by Ellison caused people to lump it in, (b) the fact that Cameron (apparently) said he ripped off "a couple of" Ellison's stories made people assume, and (c) it appears that Ellison's fans are kinda territorial and defensive (hey, I am about some writers, too!) and so maybe they just felt it made Ellison look better.
But I really don't know.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Well, alright. I suspected that "Demon with a Glass Hand" and "Soldier" were the only two Outer Limits episodes penned by Ellison. Anyway, thanks.
TakumProti 2 years ago
Thanks to you for making this one of your Favorites.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
In my opinion, 'Demon with a Glass Hand' actually has more in common with 'The Terminator' than 'Soldier,' but there is more than a passing similarity there, too.
Why do you go out of your way to defend Cameron? Why do you think Cameron wanted to sound like a cynical insider when he said he ripped off old 'Outer Limits' episodes? Sounds to me like he told the truth.
"The Terminator" was a good (not great) movie... and Ellison deserved what he got paid for providing the foundation.
MirrorMatterMatt 2 years ago
Matt,
I think Terminator's great. Some people probably don't like it at all. You think it's okay. Where does that get us?
Secondly, my claim that DWAGH wasn't a reference for Terminator came from the fact that there's zero record of it. Ellison goes out of his way to say that it was Solider - NOT Demon - at issue.
90% of movies "plagiarize" worse than Terminator ('Star Wars', 'Jurassic Park', etc.), and yet they don't have to pay off the films that inspire them. This was a clear money grab.
CameronFanSite 2 years ago
Watch "Terminator Origins: Harlan Ellison" That's all you need to know. You left out the other story Cameron "homaged" which was "Demon with a Glass Hand.
Do your homework dipshit.
Teabonesteak 2 years ago