Sultans of Swing - In Search of the "Holy Grail" of old Strat tone Part 2

[gregjohnify]

anyone selling the silverface .

[gregjohnify]

anyone selling the silverface

[rushinsteele]

Studio and Live! or 2 different animals...... I think the key to his sound on that song has many factors on top of what gear he played through......His fingers , the engineer , the mixing board , the room the amp was mic'ed up in and the fact that it went to tape. There are probably a hundred more factors....But! you do get very close in this video. Being able to just play the song is an accomplishment.

[Linsenpuppe]

I played around with different compressors to get this sound - and I ended up with a limiter: Baja optical limiter, a diy project published at freestompboxes[dot]org.

[ebeatworld]

You are a great guitarist. You would probably sound good playing through a D-style amp.

[YofterMofter]

I like that you're not afraid to play on that bridge pickup. Many people write it off as being harsh and thin and basically useless, yet it isn't - in the right hands of course.

[stratnut]

@YofterMofter thanks alot - I have the strats modified so that the second tone control acts on the bridge pickup as well as the middle pickup, giving a really useable bridge pickup. Without that mod, the bridge would be too harsh for my tastes

[abcthethtwe]

@YofterMofter 

[YofterMofter]

@abcthethtwe 

[TheLoupours]

@YofterMofter I normally play on the bridge pickup with my strat, i like the noise because it sounds good for various of reasons

[YofterMofter]

@TheLoupours Yes. I think Robert Cray uses the bridge pickup alone a lot too.

[santax123]

Your tone is very nice, but I still think the Knopfler is 99% Marks fingers. Having said that, you do get close ;)

[mattchurchill]

Beautiful playing and tones. Your dedication to tone really shows. Thanks for posting.

[ufc70wasnotasbombas7]

check out texas customs for their prewired pickguards. wicked tone in their stuff since the use tubes, with their pots. its nuts but sounds fantastic.

[powellallan]

You know something we all seem to have overlooked? What did the producer do in the studio after the parts were recorded and.... And....did Mark Knopfler try the old Hendrix trick of different strings for G and D as I think Jimmy Page may have on Black Dog( pedal steel guitar lighter gauge), I don't know because i am a string idiot but can anyone enlighten us?

[stratnut]

Rumour has it that MK used a really light string gauge on the first album - 8s. See mk-guitar . com

[powellallan]

what strings? I use ernie ball super slinky and my trouble is getting the response down and keeping it quiet as it picks up EVERYTHING, I have a 1985 Fender Jap strat and an American Fender 1992 Strat, the Jap has all the tone cheers and thanks for the great post Allan

[stratnut]

Hi @powellallan - thanks for the kind comments. I used D'Addario EXLs 10-46. Currently experimenting with 9-46 to get a bit more twang!

[stratnut]

@powellallan I've now been experimenting with Fender 150s Super Light strings 8-38), thought I'd hate them, but I am mightily surprised what a good sound you can get out of them. Definitely a step closer to the original MK sound. Real shame Fender is now discontinuing them after 40 years just as I'm getting into them :-(

[DuskyRope]

can someone tell me what on earth compressors do?

In the video demos i've watched they seem to do absolutely nothing..

[spudgun05]

hi is there any differance between your exciter and the new exciter pedals ,sound wise?

[Italyown]

this is a nice beginning of Down to the Waterline :D I liked that

[roland17110]

your tone is wonderfull. Do you know if in the first album, knopfler had all those effects. I heard an interview, and he said he was direct in the amp with just a volume pedal !!. What do you thing about that. perhaps i make a mistake? anyway after he plays with emg pickup he puts more effects, but in the begening ??

[SuperSolaris]

Awesome video, awesome strats, awesome TONE, awesome playing.

10/10

[Elektraman71]

Ah that old tone! I heard a very, very close version via a line 6 setup. - Comments appreciated on my live version

[ronnierhoads]

I really like your playing..In my humble opinion neither compressor sounded as good as the micro amp which was quite transparent. Of course tone, is largely in the hands and you have that in spades my friend..Thanks for sharing

[daraghkinch]

Wow, you have really great control of huge bends and vibrato. You really can make that strat sing. Hats off to you sir!

[jackcraven]

awesome playing!

[catafractamexico]

I agree with dmoteone, the tone of the 63 is orgasmic, I felt something inside my brain when I listened that guitar,...LOL. The John English strat is more "average" ...thanks!

[Fogertian]

wanna get a snappy tone and sustain? Use STRINGS`TUBES on your strat and see by yourself how the old mighty strat tone appears!!!! :) And use those vintage effects and make a demo !!!!

[stratnut]

Interesting stuff - I might try it on one of my Strats to see if there is any difference. How did you come by this?

[stripes5150]

Please! what are your amp settings? I have a 1963 fender twin reverb and a 1993 maroon usa strat....Help!

Thanks

[stratnut]

Hi - my Twin Reverb is not "stock" - I have done quite a few tweaks. However, I set as follows:- Treble 6, Mid 8, Bass 5, bright switch off. I tend to set the amp brighter than most might and use the tone controls on the guitar (say at 7 on middle PUP). All I can suggest is trust your ears!

[stripes5150]

ok...thank you....I sincerely appreciate it!

Cheers!

[dmoteone]

the tone coming out of that 63' is orgasmic, dont know if its just me but i think the song should be played with this strat instead of the john english remake.

[liftedcj7on44s]

Mark actually used a Roland Jazz Chorus on the studio recording of Sultans of Swing.

[JIMMYJIBLETS]

I'm almost certain knopfler used the Vibrolux for sultans of swing (an old tweed one) Since any videos of him playing SoS with it sound identical to the album. the twin reverb sounds a little bit tighter than the album sound.

[liftedcj7on44s]

@JIMMYJIBLETS

Send me a PM. I will link you to the Lead guitar only track of this song which I think you will be able to clearly Hear the "Chorus" effect.

[Fichtezxc]

I love your tone so much. I'm in the process of trying to mod my SF champ to sound really sweet.

[TeeBirdTim]

That's a guitarist's guitarist tone if ever I heard one. Well done.

[sdlogan9]

I liked the 59 actually !!

[fridrikur]

I think the '63 strat sounded better. A shame you didn't use the aphex exciter it really adds warmth to the sounds. I think you used just a little too much compression meaning that the attack sounded too heavy on the strings, but I must say you got the sound very close.

[werd316]

The tone is all in your hands! You Rock!

[chooseyourblues]

Beautiful playing and tone to die for. I'm really getting into that first Dire Straits album a lot. I read an interview somewhere where Mr Knopfler said he couldn't remember what effects he used on the track, I know he used the red 61 Strat though. I don't know perhaps he was just trying to throw people off the track the same way Billy Gibbons always used to do???

[dantheman1015]

your tone from that strat is amazing, nearly identical to mark knopflers... i started playing guitar a year ago and knopfler is one of my idols. ive been saving up and want to buy a strat. any help as to how i can get that tone whether through certain strings, amp, pickups, effects pedals, or a certain kind of strat?

[stratnut]

Hi - many thanks for the comments and welcome to the journey!

I would suggest developing your technique and "ear" - try as many strats as you can. As you probably found from my demos things like Orange Squeezers and Aphexes are simply icing on the cake. Find a good strat through a Fender amp and develop your skills on that - no need for fancy pedals etc (IMHO).

[Renegadrian]

For the little I know, we cannot be sure that Mark used a OS - some say he did, some say he didn't - actually I built one (and can build others) and with a Strat (copy) I can nail the Tunnel of Love solo...Close your eyes - instant DS sound!!! Now I just have to practice more on the guitar...

Nice videos, man...

[bscfo1]

Great demo - I also watched part 1. I'm starting to think that you would probably sound good playing a brick! LOL!!  Post more!

[cheesewhistle666]

Thanks a lot, that's a real eye opener! I'm using 9-42 now and can occassionally overbend, especially the B string for some reason. Perhaps it's simply a matter of control... I may try the 10-46 and see how I get on.

[cheesewhistle666]

Wonderful tone!! Can I ask you what string gauge you use and if you think that plays a big part... I read once that MK favours 12 gauge? I could be wrong though!

[stratnut]

Thanks for the comments. I use 10-46 D'Addarios EXLs. I think MK used to use a slightly custom set back then (early Dire Straits) - 9-46. I used to use 9-42 for many years but suffered tuning issues (that "boinging" effect where a string goes initially sharp when you hit it hard - I used to play in a punk band). I found switching to 10s got rid of that problem and improved the tone as well. It's interesting that many old school guitarists used to get fantastic tone from light gauge strings..

[stratnut]

E.g. Page used 8s or 9s, Iommi 8s etc. It's a testement to their guitar skills that they got such great tone and intonation

[JIMMYLIMO]

AHHH...The eternal quest for "THE TONE". Damn, dude, you're dancin' all around it !!! Sounds SUH-WEEET ! Keep up the quest.

[sunp]

jeebus for the first 2 seconds i thought he was clapton

[funkyjones]

Sweet playing and tone.

Kudos!

[stratbreizh29]

Strat John English, amazing sound!!!!!

You are a great player and very good feeling!!!

Congratulations!

[milhaum5150]

great tone dude!

[pipesstratman]

I love your Strat tones. I have a couple of Strats and find myself fiddling with the height of the pickups trying to find the tone. I like a clean natural sound out of my Strats like your tone. Could you share your pickup measurements with me? Also, many say the treble side should be much higher than the bass side but it doesn't look that way on your Strats.

[stratnut]

Sure. On the John English, measuring from top of string to top of PLASTIC on pickup cover:-

Neck: Bass side 8.0mm, Treble side 5.8mm

Middle: Bass side 7.1mm, Treble side 4.9mm

Bridge: Bass side 6.7mm, Treble side 4.0mm

I don't think I've changed the pickup heights from when I bought it - this is how JE set them.

[Richo18]

Phenomenal tone and playing dude, nobody plays the nicely any more.

[damonjwood]

Very nice demo, tasty playing and informative storytelling. Thanks!

[shakespeareisgod]

lovely tone..what are the interesting looking bits of kit under the exciter?

[stratnut]

A TC Electronic Triple C compressor - I use it mainly for digital input to the desk (it was bypassed for this demo). Also a TLA 5051 mic pre-amp (not used in this demo).

[TheBJKiD]

what about his Les paul tone?

[tats170]

analogman minibicomp, w00t! :-) by the way, how do you deal with 60 cycle hum? I love my minibicomp, but the hum is absolutely unbearable at any position other than 2 or 5 (I have a humbucker in the bridge position).

[stratnut]

I know what you mean - it kinda goes with the territory since a compressor is designed to make the quiet parts louder, especially with the OS. All my strats have shielding in the cavities (I do it with simple aluminium foil which I can easily remove). This helps some, but unless you go for noiseless pickups (e.g. Kinmans), it's always a problem. I just put up with it (or get the drummer to play louder to cover it up!)

[AlbiCollier]

yeah tell him to open his hi hats a little more, or perhaps put some rivets in his ride... lol. Lovely tone man... thank you for this never had guitar compressors explained so patiently!!!

Thanks again...

[shakespeareisgod]

..and what sort of pickups do you have on the JEng strat..sound like the 50s fat pickups to me, great tone anyway!

[jkrows98]

Very nice tone and feeling most of all....I wish more guitarists put feeling into their playing like yourself....Its great to hear somebody that hasn't lost that feeling in their playing...Rock on cheers

[camaro101]

i think you nailed his tone!

[Luknopfler83]

Amazing sound!

[jordanb450]

You are an amazing and very skilled guitarist. I like your taste in guitars too :-) Favorited

[deathpigeon69]

Not a bit Knopfler fan, but really enjoyed this!

[melvis24]

Wow, you really got the Dire Straits sound! What I find quite interresting is, how strats differ in their only-middle-pihckup-tone. On your John English strat it really shines, on some strats it's boring or not even pleasing.

[stratnut]

Thanks for the kind comments. Agreed on the middle pickup only - it's rare to find a strat that sounds really good on just middle only (my test of a good 'un). My part 1 was done on middle only on the old strat

[stratnut]

Unfortunately my part 1 video has been pulled by YouTube due to supposed copyright infringment - me playing along to Sultans of Swing in the background :-(

[stratnut]

Seems to be back again :-)

[DogSwede1]

Very interesting video. And nice playing. :)

[patkeating97]

Sounds amazing. You are great to share this.

[katarzis27]

How is the neck on this masterbuilt?

[stratnut]

It plays and feels pretty much like a "played in" vintage one. Great profile and I love the slightly higher Dunlop frets used compared to standard frets - it plays very easily and sustains really well

[stratnut]

Only a couple of minor criticisms; the relicing on the back of the neck is the typical "sanded down" look that wouldn't fool anyone (common to all custom shop guitars I've seen). Also, on this masterbuilt, I initially found I kept pulling the top string off the board when doing pull-offs with a large span (e.g. 4th fret upwards pulling off to an open string).

[stratnut]

This is because there is very little margin between the string and where the bevelling starts at the end of the fret - the end bevel on these frets seems more pronounced than other guitars I have. However, it made me improve my technique to be more accurate (there's always a plus side!)

[jenton70]

The John English might be the best sounding Strat I've heard on youtube. It's extremely creamy, almost thick in the ears. That's what draws me to Strats - a very rare thing, though. Most sound quite good, if only an acceptable facsimile - your John English is the real deal. Nice playing, as well. -Andrew

[katarzis27]

Great strat sound!

Although i think you'd get better clean sounds with the guitar strait into the amp.

[NickCrate007]

What gauge u use?

[stratnut]

I like 10-46 on Strats. I vaguely remember reading an early Knopfler interview where he said he used 9-46 (i.e. not the normal 9-42)

[toyoubecritic1]

Knopfler according to guitar player magazine used a seveties strat not sure what year, and the old tree way toggle on the middle position. I LOVE STRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cool playing too. I think you have nailed the old strat tone. PLayers like dick dale used to use 12 gage strings ouch!!!

[alikockaya]

Thanks for sharing the great research. Surely it took some time. Sounds fantastic

[bobcaygeonfrench]

A bit Dave Gilmour'ish too I find.

[unopepito06]

I love your voice. I wish I talked like that.

[superreverbking]

very nice job. excellent and very good playing. you really nailed the tone. i am a big fan of fender amps with enhanced harmonics. i'll be looking for one of those exciters.

greetings from NY

[3gypt1an]

Brilliant!! This was EXACTLY what I was looking for tonight...WHAT did Mark do to get that sound on the first album?? It took me a while to get here. THANK you for doing this. I need to go to bed but have favorited and will review again.

Question...only newsgroup rumor on thing like the orange squeezer...has Mark ever commented on any of this in an interview?? ie: guitar, amps, effects chain??

Anyway...just great mate.

cheers from Canada

ian

[stratnut]

Thanks for the comments Ian, I appreciate them. I think the use of the Orange Squeezer is more of a "definite" than the Aphex Exciter, but I can't find interviews on the net. Maybe old guitar magazines might have more informative stuff???