Dragon Age Origins - Party Dialog - Loghain & Dog #1

[MsSkywalka]

pls guys somone tell me..... how does he get loghain at his party and where is he?????

[enterprise0709]

Ferelden and Orlais. It are Medieval England and France .

They DO NOT like each other ONE BIT!

[drezzerXD]

That is the weirdest party ever. Dog, Shale and Loghain :D

[chochang85]

pt 6 That pple even argue over this is testimony to the brilliant writing done at Bioware. Great men make great mistakes unfortunately, they are just human after all. - end Loghain rant. Wow, 6 parts! I love this game so much, can you tell? xD

[StillEternity2]

@chochang85

You sir win the Awesomest post Ever award. Good On you mate.

[chochang85]

@StillEternity2 thats ma'am to you. unless you mean 'ser' in a non-gender specific way :)

[chochang85]

Part 1 - I couldn't help but put in my two cents' worth on loghain after reading the thread below. I can't help but think that this is exactly what the writers at Bioware were aiming at when they created the chars in DAO. WHat's most impt in analysing the chars esp Loghain is to realise that one cannot examine them thru a monochrome lense - where everything is either black or white. Loghain is a very complex char that can only be fully understood thru the 2 books.

[chochang85]

@chochang85 Putting aside my indignance at being wronged at the hands of loghain during my first playthru, I realised that there were many reasons why he acted as he did. 1) as pointed out by many, his hatred for the orlesians - this is understandable when looked thru the WW2-german lense and relating them to our grandparents. 2) Loghain is someone who acts on gut instinct - and that instinct has served both him n his country well agst the orlesians.

[chochang85]

@chochang85 part 3 Altho MAric was rightly king, anyone who has read the books would know that the true hero in 'The Stolen Throne' is Loghain. He was a brilliant tactician and an excellent warrior. Even in 'The Calling', he came to Maric's rescue due to his gut instinct that Orlesians cannot be trusted (including Grey Wardens). Time and again, his instinct proved accurate. Why should Ostagar be any different? Just as before, his entire country was depending on him for survival-and not the King

[chochang85]

@chochang85 part 4 As much as Maric was loved by his people, ppl looked to loghain to defend them. He was only doing what he deemed necessary at Ostagar (discounting any arguments frm Cailan to look to the Orlesians for support due to his understandable hatred) 4) his love for his country superseded everything else - he even forfeited marrying the woman he loved (Rowan) and convinced her to marry his best friend (maric).

[chochang85]

@chochang85 Pt 5 In spite of it all,I still execute Loghain at every Landsmeet (I love him to death, literally lol). He must have known what he was doing was wrong, hence having to frame someone else (the Warden) for the loss at ostagar. If he was truly convinced that there was no other way, why not tell the Banns the truth after Ostagar, that Cailan had a foolish plan & that it could never work? By covering up one mistake with more mistakes he effectively wrote his own death sentence.

[ruskiangel]

loghain was so retarded because flemeth predicted that he couldnt be trusted and told king maric, he was trying to prove her wrong but in doing so proved her right... funny how the world works. it was in the dragon age prequel books if you wanna know the whole thing

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 Obviously, we aren't going to convince each other, so let's just not talk about it anymore. I'm happy we've been able to have a civil conversation, so let's drop it there.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 Genevieve said a lot of things to justify her actions, but in the end, she was not protecting anyone. She undertook the mission for her own personal reasons relating to her brother. Even her own companions accused her of this. Yes, Duncan didn't betray Maric, so there was nothing to blame him for. However, that doesn't change what Genevieve did and what she tried to do, and the idea was planted in Loghain's mind that the Wardens were not to be trusted, rightly or not.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 I'm not discussing whether or not Genevieve was right to make the choice she did. All I'm saying is that, to someone outside of the order (and, clearly, even to those within it - like Duncan) like Loghain, this looks like a betrayal. Coupled with the fact that some of those same wardens sided with Darkspawn (the Architect) - the very enemies they're supposed to protect against - it doesn't paint a flattering picture to someone looking in from the outside.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666  I'm not talking about Remille. The wardens had their own plan to kill Maric before he could tell anyone what had happened in the Deep Roads. Genevieve charged Duncan with killing Maric if he should see anything that would reflect badly on the wardens (which, obviously, he did). This plan was in place before she even met the Architect. Later, she wanted him dead so that he couldn't jeopardize the Architect's plan, but the original plan was all hers.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 I'll grant you that perhaps the Architect had manipulated Genevieve, Bregan, and Utha by telling them certain things and not others, but he was not controlling them by any means. Each of them chose of their own free will to go along with his plan. Furthermore, even before siding with the Architect, Genevieve showed herself willing to kill Maric to protect her own interests. Witness the conversation she had with Duncan when they first went into the Deep Roads.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 That isn't entirely true. Remille, the (Orlesian) First Enchanter was involved in a separate plot to hand Maric over the Orlesian emperor, and he used the Architect to further his own ends, but Bregan, Genevieve, and Utha were perfectly prepared to kill Maric, and they were all wardens, having nothing to do with the mages' conspiracy.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 I know that. I'm not suggesting they did. I'm just saying that public opinion was against the wardens in Ferelden at the time. However, the incident with Maric occured in 9:14 Dragon (roughly), only sixteen years prior to the events of the game. This is no longer a 200 year old offence we're talking about. This is something that happened within recent memory, and this was Loghain's only personal experience with the wardens up to the point of the game's events.

[shiromori]

@goldenbulletwolf666 Loghain's hatred for the wardens isn't entirely due to them being Orlesian. The Wardens were originally kicked out of Ferelden for interfering in Ferelden politics and starting a rebellion (Soldier's Peak DLC), so that was already on his mind. Furthermore, King Maric allowed a small group of wardens to return to Ferelden and some of them went rogue and tried to kill him ("The Calling" novel). It was only incidental that those wardens were also Orlesian.

[Rave7557]

Everyone loves Dog!

[Arathir66]

@Rave7557 Xcept for Morrigan :D

[AnoukTutorials]

@Arathir66 and Oghren who thinks Dog stole his pants :D

[sepewrath]

There's no excuse for Loghain, just because he let personal prejudice and frustration lead him astray; he doesn't have some grand sob story to use as an excuse. So he doesn't like the Orlesians, if Earth was going to be destroyed, would anyone recommend the countries not fight together because they had bad blood before? It sucks what happened to him, but to blame every person who shares the same hometown is ridiculous. He was choosing death for himself and everyone else for his grudge.

[WithinTemptaionRULES]

@goldenbulletwolf666 I know all of that, you must have misunderstood. I do not support that kind of thinking, but I understand it. That's all I wanted to say.

[WithinTemptaionRULES]

@goldenbulletwolf666 But did you fight in the World War II? Unless you have, you cannot say. I know what he did and is doing (in a manner of speaking)is wrong, but I understand him. No the world in general does not hate Germany, but the veterans who have survived, and some civilians also. My grandmother, for instance. Her husband, my grandfather was killed close to the end of it, and she hates all the Germans for it. I on the other hand don't. I understand why she does. And its same with Loghain

[MCfleghm]

@goldenbulletwolf666 You don't seem to understand, his farm was burned by orlesions, his mother was raped and killed by orlesions, then he ran away to his next home where his father was killed by orlesions and his home was burned.

[MCfleghm]

@goldenbulletwolf666 You say this now, but in reality you would be just as bitter as him.

[MCfleghm]

@goldenbulletwolf666 He saved fereldan during the orlesian occupation. The orlesions did very bad things, they enslaved them for a century, why would you want them back!? If he had been beaten at the landsmeet... They may have still won, he could have thought of a plan.

[MCfleghm]

@goldenbulletwolf666 When does it say that? The bottom line is, Loghain has a right to do bad things, he saved fereldan with is tactics, and if he aided cailen he would have died, so he abandoned him as a tactical decision.

[ResidencijaZLA]

Loghain is a hero of Ferelden. Sure he made a mistake but if he had sent his forces to defend Ostagar they would have been slaughtered. Better to retreat and organize in stead of walking away with nothing to defend the rest of Ferelden. Howe on the other hand is treaterous filthy bastard. Loghain had nothing to do with the attack on the Couslands.

[onesteezybeaner]

dood wack party haha

[Otobob]

i thought loghain was a heartless bitter animal filled with hate like hitler this shows that he only hase 1 percent of good in him

[TheRevanchists]

In The Stolen Throne Loghain IS a hero I will give hm that. However that does not excuse his actions in this game. Poisoning Emon? selling elves into slavery? arresting a templar? allowing the tourtre of nobles? Sorry but...the way I see it, Loghain simply became the monsters he hated in Orlais. On top of that He simply assumes Orlais is exactlly the same as it was back then. There is a new Emperor and a new way of doing things.

[MCfleghm]

@TheRevanchists oooh yeah i forgot about all of those :S, i guess you're right, his anger for the orlesions caused him to act like a douche, but you got to admit he is damn cool!

[JustinMiles17]

what sword did your character have on his back?

[BlueAuraWolf]

I honestly don't mind Loghain. Read the books; maybe you'll understand. The Stolen Throne, I believe, is about King Maric and Loghain fighting the good fight. He's not all as he seems in this game.

[2Wolfheartwarrior]

@BlueAuraWolf books? this was a series in books b4?

[BlueAuraWolf]

@2Wolfheartwarrior

Yes. There were two, I believe. The Calling, first, and then The Stolen Throne.

[MCfleghm]

@BlueAuraWolf no, stolen throne then calling.

[Elisabetta611]

@goldenbulletwolf666

Let me put it this way: For the Fereldans who suffered under the Orlesian slavery, it would be like the Gauls asking Caesar for help. Had Cailan not been so eager for glory and waited for Arl Eamon's men....

[Elisabetta611]

@goldenbulletwolf666

She was, yes. By Orlesians who then slit her throat in front of his eyes. I cannot blame him for hating them.

[Riku72293]

throughout the story as you hear loghain's speeches, they start to make sense, though did he really have to approve slave trading, and told people that the Grey Wardens betrayed the king, but he was paranoid about the Grey Wardens Overthrowing Ferelden, so maybe in his eyesit was an act of preventing another Orlesian dictatorship

[paydafee]

executing loghain was the most satisfaction i've ever had in an RPG

[Elisabetta611]

@paydafee

Read the novels. There's more to him than meets the eye.

[aekhoo]

@Elisabetta611 Oh I ADORE the novels. I worked at the International School of Bucharest, and read them during the annual Info-matrix IT competition - not much work to do for me then.

[aekhoo]

@paydafee Executing Irenicus for me will be the greatest pleasure gotten out of gaming, since I never got around to finishing Baldur's Gate 2, although I'm a HUGE fan.

[TyrantYoshi]

Loghain Shale, Sten, Dog, Morrigan and Ohgren should all get together and have one huge banter.

[DemonDragon000]

...Logain why must I adore you and hate you...

[superlogan7437]

it seems dog is the only companion that Loghain gets along.

[dylanbman1]

any 1 with a 360 have alistair and anora married and loghain still alive be honoest i talked and arranged the marriage and talked to anora about loghain living dident work lil bitch ass alistair has to ruin it all

[curlytoes79]

and grumpy Loghain's story comes to light...someone took his doggy when he was a baby... :(

[mandm0821]

oh duh..when i got to that point alistair killed him he wouldnt let me put him threw the joining

[RealArcalian]

That would be because Alistair is the one who duelled him.

[zoltan055]

mod?

[mandm0821]

howed you get lohgain as a part of party?

[Jurrrrriaan]

You must complete the 'Landsmeet' quest. After you defeated Loghain you can if Loghain must die for his crime or become a Grey Warden.

[vlati18]

ok how exactly did you get loghain before the climax at landsmeet? :S or did you get him and decided to not go for the last part of the game and explore or whatnot?

[RealArcalian]

She just didn't go to Redcliffe right afterwards. So long as you don't go to Redcliffe, the endgame doesn't trigger. So, you can save some sidequests for this point; the High Dragon, Flemmeth, Warden's Keep, etc.

[NonFactorPanama]

What armor and helmet are u wearing in the main character?

[AlexSlesh]

It's Warden Commander Armor  from Warden's Keep DLC

[KiraKuchiki2]

Aww. Logain's a softie!

[shelkesamurai]

PUPPY!!!!!

[Vasquetz]

Thanks 4 uploading. love Loghains dialogs, too :3 He's allright, if one gives him a chance :)

Say, are the party dialoges triggered somewhere with certainty? I noticed your vids are all in Orzammar.

[spiraloutward]

There are certain "trigger" spots throughout Ferelden that will always trigger party banter. (just keep reloading and walking past them)

The ones I can think of off hand:

- The bridge to the Provings in Orzammar

- Exiting the Dalish camp (as in going to the world map, not the forest)

- The bridge in Redcliffe going over the waterfall

- Circle of Magi tower (just inside the barred doors)

- Deep Roads (can't remember where though)

- Denerim Market

..there's more, just can't remember them all..

[Vasquetz]

@spiraloutward Ah great, I'll try that. Thank you :)

[psychee1]

Loghain may be the prime baddy for most of the story but once you start to look into his reasoning he doesn't look that horrible. The king was too stuck on illusions of heroism to see what a terrible place the world could be. He wanted to bring in the Orlesians to be their buddies in the fight against the darkspawn, the same ones that enslaved their people for a century, the same Orlesians that the King's father and Loghain finally managed to throw out after a long campaign only 30 years prior.

[samus404]

i understood him but cailan was a good guy he may of been enthusiastic but thats wat a country needs some time to become a poweful nation. also he was young compared to loghain not a war veteran so i think its unfair to say that he was always going to be like that. also how do they ever expect to rebuild relations with a powerful empire with just ignoring them.

[psychee1]

@samus404 Cailan was a good guy, no doubt. Unfortunately he was much too naive as well. He was a bit too eager to bring them in and assumed them best friends and it Was still pretty early after the war. Loghain simply questioned that they would leave the weakened Ferelden on their own afterwards and that's a reasonable worry if you ask me.

[DisneyClassicmusic]

@psychee1 I still say they could have won if Loghain didn't retreat :P

[Ownagedante]

They probably would have, But i quite like loghain.

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

@DisneyClassicmusic That's very hopeful of you ^^ Maybe they would win, temporarily. One must be reminded that the Archdemon was and would be alive at that point, so although the darkspawn army were finished off, there are many Broodmothers spawning shrieks, hurlocks, genlocks and ogres somewhere hidden, possibly the deep roads. That's why when I had to choose between losing Alistair or executing Loghain, it was hard for me. Duncan only went in cuz he's following the king.

[DisneyClassicmusic]

Even though they didnt kill the archdemon in that fight. They would've weakened the darkspawn forces.

[AnnoyingAsianWitch]

@DisneyClassicmusic and human forces XP

[DisneyClassicmusic]

What's better losing some of your army to defeat a big army from the enemy or let the big army from the enemy live while your army dies?

[Elisabetta611]

@DisneyClassicmusic

Cailan himself disagrees with this. His confidante tells the Warden that, despite his bravado, Cailan himself did not believe in a victory at Ostagar. (In the DLC Return To Ostagar)

[jokey1134]

i would like to mention that loghain's mother being raped right in front of his eyes having his father killed, and seeing people rebel against orlais with no hope of survival (or so he says). in all rights Loghain only meant the best of intentions although he did the wrong things in order to try and achieve it

[Christina879]

@psychee1, I agree with you here. I just finished reading The Stolen Throne and I must say, I actually understand the way Loghain thinks and understand his actions towards his own King. It wouldve been a terrible mistake to make alliance with the Orlesians. I wouldnt trust them! King Maric and Loghain and their army put those Orlesian bastards back at their places and they should STAY there! (sorry if my English is not so good, trying my best here hehe)

[gv1955]

@psychee1

Soz but selling your own people to slaver's is very evil.

[gorboy]

@psychee1 Yes, but there is nothing wrong with pushing for peace with the Orlesians. You don't see Japan attacking the U.S for stuff that happened almost a century ago. I agree that King Cailan was naive, but he did not deserve to be betrayed like that. He was a good man. And even if you do agree with his reasoning, it was plain moronic of him to divide Ferelden with his betrayal IN THE MIDDLE OF A BLIGHT. Loghain was ignorant and stupid.

[MessagerOfHell]

@psychee1 Well you do have a point but in my opinion Logain has serious issues. He refuses to think of Orlesians as possible alies. If you played the ostagar addon you find letters from the empress of Orlei where she agrees to marry Cailan and unite Orlei with Ferelden, she even sends wardens and chevaliers to help in the blight. Cailan also says that they querels with orlei are a thing of the past and I think hes right, while Logain chases his past and clings to dyeing memories

[olstar18]

@psychee1 That may be his reasoning but there are a few real world examples where such enemies joined together to fight shared foes and became lasting allies. France and britain for instance. Another thing to keep in mind. Every dictator, genocidal or not, has had good reasons for their actions. It doesn't make their actions any less horrible or the lives that are lost because of them any happier. Anyways the real problem wasn't that he wanted to call for help but that his daughter was barren.

[unsteddy]

@psychee1 ehh....I think that was an exaggeration made by loghain TBH. I mean, sure the king wanted glory, but he wasn't stupid. the plan would have worked if not for the betrayal. Plus using the orlesians means losing less of his own troops and would also help build a good relationship between the two countries which after the war was desperately needed.

[DemonMaiden]

@unsteddy Recall from Return to Ostagar that the plan would /not/ have worked.

The survivor said that with the amount of darkspawn there, Loghain's men would only have added to the death toll. In essence, Loghain saved lives. Also, Cailan had a feeling he wouldn't survive the battle anyway.

Those deaths could've been avoided if Cailan had used tact/followed his gut, rather than chased after "glory." Against such numbers, Loghain did what was logical; he didn't charge head-on to his death.

[unsteddy]

@DemonMaiden Come on, that strategy was made by Loghain himself! if he read those letters from the Orlesians (in the ostagar DLC) then he had no excuse to turn down their help, but he did.

[shiromori]

@unsteddy I guess it's a matter of opinion. You could look at the same letters (particularly Eamon suggesting that Cailan put aside Anora and Celene's curiousy familiarity) and think that the Orlesians might have been trying to do exactly what Loghain suspected they were - wiggle their way into Cailan's good graces and then use him as a puppet. Certainly, I think that was Eamon's plan, with or without the Orlesians' involvement, and Anora was blocking him.

[unsteddy]

@shiromori I'm sure the desiegners made it opinionated on purpose, although I agree about Eamon, lol.

hm, we have been debating for about 5 posts now, why haven't we been insulted by some random yet?

[shiromori]

@unsteddy Dunno, but it's nice, isn't it?

[erd249]

@psychee1 He still sold some of the people under his care into slavery, let all of Cailan's troops get slaughtered, let that asp of a man Rendon Howe have power, and tried to have Arl Eamon poisoned. Not to mention tried to have the only people in the goddamn country who could really help killed.  His crimes can be explained, but not justified.

[psychee1]

@erd249 What he did at Lothering I can both understand and sympathize with. Can't say for certain it was the right call but I understand the idea behind it. Everything he did after that were undisputed warcrimes, no objections there.

[daryogt]

wtf man? are you in Orzammar??

how can you be in orzammar with Loghain??

[RealArcalian]

You can go back there once you recruited him. LadyXaila picked that spot because it's a "dialogue trigger" zone, that bridge they're on.

[killerecho]

Wow, Loghain seems almost human here.

[Goatmon]

The next part of his story is just awful. :(

[Anthonieee14]

Awh(: So that explains his evil!

His been a bitter, back-stabbing bastard even since he had his puppy taken away.

[greedek]

hahah XD

but seriously, if you want to know why he acts like he acts, you should read novels ;3

[RealArcalian]

By Orlesians. No, seriously. That's the next dialogue on that subject.