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o my bad your so brilliant!!! what a shit sniffer!!! read my post you freaking trog,what ethan did is no more racist that what the commanches did,take time to study history you piss puppy,instead of sitting in that no talent bums lap and dude i'm serious get some help,your all over the map,have a happy!!!
scorsese is a true genuis in many ways the idiot speilberg on the other hand couldnt tell you the difference between his ass and his face,to say that waynes character is racist is just plain stupid.people back then were fighting to survive,indians and settlers alike .they both did things that seem racist to us now,but i could no more sit in judgement and make a statement such as that than he can,spoken like a true liberal you no talent bum
You are a retard. Scorsese and Spielberg make essentially the same exact point about the Ethan Edwards character, and the film does make it clear that the character is racist. Blatantly clear.
@2koolbenny1eye John Ford has stated that there was much racial tension between both Whites and Native Americans, but he does make clear that both Ethan Edwards, and the Comanche Chief Scar, are individually racist. In that sense, Spielberg is correct.
@supermario0527 Hes not racist . She has been tainted by having been raped and then having concentual sex with an indian . Ethan struggles with this she is kin , but she is also tainted ruined if you will. Like having a daughter marry a black man. Ethan is a comlicated man.
Ethan is an American of his time, an automatic racist. He was in the Civil War on the losing side. He's got PTSD. He's spent the four years since the war being an outlaw. The woman he loves married his brother(?), probably because he couldn't settle down. He's ready to kill anyone he meets. The only thing he's got is this family. John Wayne is acting here, not being "John Wayne." This is a great movie, and it resonates with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam and all our history.
Even Marxists like Godard and liberals like Spielberg have championed The Searchers as one of the greatest films ever made.
People are going to get all bent out of shape cause the Native American barbarians are portrayed by white men? LOL, Who cares? how many films of that era did the same thing?
@Idattani No one got bent out of shape, the poster who keeps incessantly replying to me keeps trying to convince me that the hatred Wayne's character feels for ALL Native Americans including Martin-who has done nothing wrong-is justified. This is how the original argument started, he also has an odd tendency to justify racism for some reason.
@Idattani John Ford, the director himself, was actually very liberal. His portrayal of Native Americans was very ahead of its time, the movie is often championed for that reason. To people today it just kind of comes off as racist, but the film was groundbreaking for its time in that sense.
Just to refresh people's memories, as to the reason that I originally commented on this video, was the use of the term "RACIST" in describing John Wayne's actions in seeking retributions for the Atrocity perpetrated against his Family. I said, and again, I quote, "I don't care if the perpetrators of this Atrocity were Red, White, or from the Planet Zog, his reaction would have been the same".
Anybody Scum Bag, Devient, Low Life Pervert who say different, is indeed a liar for all to see.
@pydo7 Your problem, pydo, is that you genuinely believe you are superior. In the other thread, you spoke of your "intelect [sic]" being superior to mine. Your comments to me, to Shelley, to Laura, and others, are all those of someone who thinks themselves superior. Which is remarkable, because you are in truth a witless fucking idiot. When anyone presumes to argue with you, you get pissy and unpleasant. Get over it, mate. You bang on about intellect - and you can't even fucking spell it!
@pydo7 “Everybody” thinks that you’re intellectually superior to me? Well, notwithstanding the fact that I don’t give a shit, here’s a challenge for you: Name one of them. Ha! Ha!
@pydo7 So when I ask you, who is this "everybody" that supports your claim of intellectual superiority, the only name you can cite is pybo7? OK... Ha! Ha! Says it all.
@pydo7 You're not STILL after Laura? For fuck sake! How many times do you have to be told? She's just a girl. You want to be ashamed of yourself, you dirty old man.
@940kenneth You record is stuck old lad. I say again, come up with something new or bugger off, this is getting very tiresome. If you are not careful, then ALL your comments of a repetitive nature may well be "Removed".
And another thing, kenny old lad: As soon as I get some help from my special kindred spirit buddy, I'll give you what for. It shouldn't be too long now... Any day now... Oh yes... Then, you'll be sorry...
Until then, I'm goin' to GIVE YOU A BURST OF UPPER CASE TO SHOW YOU I MEAN BUSINESS, YOU BLOODY BASTARD.
And another thing, kenny old lad: As soon as I get some help from my special kindred spirit buddy, I’ll give you what for. It shouldn’t be too long now… Any day now… Oh yes… Then, you’ll be sorry…
Until then, I’m goin’ to GIVE YOU A BURST OF UPPER CASE TO SHOW YOU I MEAN BUSINESS, YOU BLOODY BASTARD.
@Sshelly34213 You are confusing the part he plays with the man. In War of the Wildcats, FortApache, Hondo & Mcclintock he's sympathetic to the Indians. My God you wouldn't call Sir Christopher Lee a monster just because he's played them.
@macemcguire No...John Wayne actually disliked Indians, there are numerous quotes from the man himself that support this. It has nothing to do with the roles he plays.
"Did John Wayne say that, regarding Native Americans, "I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves"
@Sshelly34213 If you consider that a racist statement, then whereever you're living was once Indian land, so pack up & move out. Also remmember that the Indians themselves seized land from others. The Sioux ran the Apaches out of Texas for example.Even as I write this I realize its piontless argueing with you so I'll delete without reading any reply from you. You're a good kid at heart but naive.
@macemcguire Well if is a racist comment, the Indians were not selfish simply for wanting to live on their OWN land.
No I'm not naive, John wayne was a racist person. Racism has nothing to do with hatred, it has to do with thinking other races are inferior. John Wayne admitted that he felt Blacks and Indians were inferior, that's just the truth. Man talk about naive! The guy was born in the early 1900! Of course he was a racist, who wasn't at that time?
@macemcguire Why don't you go read the entire interview for yourself and see?
John Wayne was simply a product of his time, I'm not saying you can't watch his films or like his characters. I love Hondo, I loved The Searchers, but I'm not stupid enough to actually think he was exactly like those characters.
@pydo7 While I agree that Tribalism is worse...I do NOT agree that racism ends conflict in any way...
Why would you want to justify racism? I don't understand that.
Having a youtube account and an email address "qualifies" me to comment on this page, a monkey is by all means qualified.
Stop trying to discredit me by insulting me or trying to lesson my intelligence. You're a human being with a brain, use it and then we'll discuss this. Until then, stop embarrassing yourself.
@Sshelly34213 I do not try, or indeed, I do not wish, to justify Racism at all. My comments, from the outset, have refered to the outrage that any right minded person would feel on discovering the atrocity inflicted on his family.
Just think of what you would feel like if you came home and found that your loved ones had been butchered so.
Racism be buggered, for we are all one Family in this World, if we only let it be.
I say again, grow up Shelly and join the real world.
@pydo7 They're actually NOT about that, you're lying. Our initial argument started with an offhand comment you made about the fact that Ethan's hatred of ALL Native Americans was perfectly understandable considering the circumstances. By doing so, you don't get Ford's message. We slaughtered Native Americans because of reasoning such as that. One group killed white people, they got revenge and killed a village and so on and so forth until we come to Ethan/Scar's conflict.
@pydo7 Again here you are excusing his character and making up your own reactions to them.
Audiences did not like the character of Ethan because he was vastly different from what John Wayne usually played. Wayne was usually the hero-type, tolerant, open minded, wise, in this film he's wrong at times-you'll notice that Martin gets things right where Wayne gets them wrong, he's violent, he's wrathful, he's not tolerant.
@Sshelly34213 Excusing his character is not my issue here. In this film, Ethan found his niece raped to death in a canyon. He witnessed the spectacle of her abused dead body. He buried her in his coat. This image would stay with him for the rest of his life. You purport to be a Female. Imagine if it was you that was raped. Racism be buggered, kill the Bastards that did this. I would. If it was your daughter, sister, mother or niece, wouldn't you?
@pydo7 Notice how Ethan does not walk into the door at the end of the film, there is no place for him, there is no room for him left in the west. So he turns away, a bit hurt, a bit worse for the wear, and walks away from the camera, walks away from us.
@Sshelly34213 They do say that when you seek revenge, then you should dig two graves.
I have wondered about this down the years, and have come to the conclusion that, if you have the emotion to seek revenge for some loved one badly done to, then maybe you will come to realise that this emotion will be directed at yourself, after having possibly killed the perpetrator of your emotion, and so making you a murderer, a person that formerly you would have despised.
@Sshelly34213 If you notice Ethan grabbing his right elbow with his left hand before he leaves, it actually has a story behind it. His good friend, Harry Carey's widow as on set that day. He said this one is for your husband, who did that signature grab playing alongside the Duke.
@pydo7 Ethan was a racist before his family was even killed from the start of the film. I don't justify that.
I understand his reaction to his family's death would be that of seething hatred for anything related to Native Americans. I'm not saying this is justified...it isn't. He wished an entire tribe dead at one point in the film. I'm saying I understand where his hatred comes from from his family's death and onward. Before then however, there is no real excuse.
@pydo7 We were never NOT in agreement on this issue and quite frankly I'm sick of you acting like I don't think there's anything wrong with being raped and murdered. I am a woman, who's a scrappy 4 foot 11 and three quarter inches tall. It's a constant worry for me.
As I said, I always understood it, but I don't agree that it was the proper response. It's like killing someone who killed your friend. That's just revenge, not justice.
@pydo7 lol Thank you. Don't worry I can kick some serious ass too, I'm thinking about picking up boxing and kick boxing. I think it's important for woman to learn how to defend herself.
I get your viewpoints and I understand the intense emotions that one feels for their family. I understand the natural reaction Wayne's character feels, I just think his character was flawed beforehand as well. Anyway, I think this discussion has pretty much been over done. Take care.
@Sshelly34213 Who tries to justify if it's revenge or justice? Ethan was doing what he wanted to do, and never once tried to justify everything he did. This story is what it is, and damn good filmmaking at that.
@generalares I never said anything about the film making, John Ford was an artist.
The whole idea of the film is that of justice v revenge. The era in which the film takes place saw the departure of individual justice aka revenge (which represents Ethan) and the entrance of actual justice (Martin.) Ethan's character is that of the untamed west of the past, the lone wanderer and nomad. I think Martin represents civilization which is inherently the death of the west we knew if you think about it.
@generalares At least how the west was portrayed at the time, the west was seen as something filled with open spaces and opportunity, freedom always taken away by the Native Americans. (as opposed to the white man also taking something away from them) There were heroes and villains, the portrayal of this west was a bit simplistic. It wasn't until films like The Searchers and Shane, that realism started to enter the picture.
@generalares John wayne later said that he would never play another character like Ethan because Ethan wasn't a straight hero. John Wayne liked representing those types of figures.
@pydo7 I think we got started on this and then changed the subject, but I think it has to do with the themes of this film. The wild untamed west finally becoming tamed and ousting the wild savage emotions such as that of Ethan. Ethan's anger and sorrow are justified, but his actions and beliefs are not. All of this is done by a very primitive and dangerous emotions all human beings have. That same primitive thing we try desperately to control with law and justice.
@pydo7 Scar said his children were killed by white people and that's why he does what he does to whites.
Is that right? No, I never said it was right, in fact I was simply pointing out that this logic leads to the more racism and more killing.
Why is Ethan so rude to Martin? Someone who had his own mother killed by Scar? Because he's Native American and Ethan hates all native Americans. Now stop putting words in my mouth and making me look like the bad guy.
@Sshelly34213 Ethan is rude to Martin for a reason. Ethan loves Martin like a Son. You are always harder on the people that you love, because you want them to be perfect, and they very often fall far short of yor expectations.
Ethan is very likely dying inside at the atrocity to his family, and the woman that he loved.
Shelly, you have a lot to learn.
I do so sincerely hope that you do not learn it the way Ethan and Martin had to in this work of Fiction.
@pydo7 No he's not "rude" to him, he's blatantly RACIST, from the beginning. He remarks about him being part Cherokee like it's a bad thing.
Again racism is not about hating anyone, it's about thinking they're inferior. Ethan's comments to Martin about him being part Native American are done as a way to make Martin feel inferior about that. Clearly Ethan sees him being part Indian as a vile and disgusting thing. He even wishes death on all Indians at one point.
@pydo7 I have no idea what "Get YT" means either. Hopefully Nationsnotregimes will enlighten us as to the meaning of this week's "buzz abbreviation". This may be a real trendsetter. I can throw it off to my friends. They will sit there scratching their heads for awhile, wondering WTF I am talking about.
@Hudsucker94 Bullshit, He didn't think black people were superior enough to hold office, racism is not about HATING a race, it's about finding one superior or inferior to another.
John Wayne did not HATE black people, there were many instances in which he would have stood up for them, from what I've heard in personal stories. He was STILL a racist because he didn't think African Americans should be able to hold positions in public office. This is from a few interviews, playboy and Barbara W.
@Hudsucker94 Also pydo and I are not discussing John Wayne's racism, we're talking about Ethan's racism in the film and what it means. Pydo seems to think it's perfectly fine to be racist, despite the fact that almost every Native American in my country is extinct. I don't.
@Sshelly34213 Excuse me again all to hell. I have never indicated the I think Racism is fine in any shape or form. My argument is about people's natural reaction to personal disaster and nothing else.
@pydo7 Then why do you think Ethan is still a hero, despite being a racist? Despite the fact that Ethan's racism led to more than just one family being burned and a women gang raped?
The hatred Ethan felt led to the entire genocide of a race, a personal disaster to someone does not justify this.
But you're doing that, you're making excuse for seething hatred.
@Sshelly34213 The racism of Scar, and the atrocities carried out by Renegades of his, and other tribes, only excasserbated, and gave credence to, the retalliation of superior opposing forces. AGAIN, I must make my point, Hatred of a person, or people, who have done harm to you and yours, does NOT make you a Racist.
@pydo7 Again I never justified the racism of Scar, you justified the racism of Ethan.
And there is a huge difference between the hatred the Native Americans felt for the European and the hatred the Europeans felt for the Native Americans. The Europeans wiped the Native Americans off the face of the earth, shoved them off their land, nearly killed off all of their food supply and stole the remaining. White Europeans were greedy fucking pigs.
@Sshelly34213 I explained the reason why Ethan did what he did. It is called retribution, fuelled by outrage and grief, not Racism. You persistantly dodge this issue. There is no difference between Hatred of whatever sort, and by whatever Race of People. A lot of people are "Greedy Fucking Pigs". I think that, by the emotion of our discourse, at the very least, that you and I are not.
@pydo7 And it was fueled by racial hatred, there is no justifying that.
This was a huge problem between the white Europeans and the Native Americans.
How did this start in the first place? White Europeans were greedy fucking pigs. King Leopold of Belgium had the Natives enslaved, tortured, and beaten, exploited their land, all because he was greedy. Sorry but there was nothing but absolute GREED the fostered the relations between the Natives and whites.
@Sshelly34213 You are going off track here. But there again, you have a one track mind. You use the term "Racist" with inpunity. It is a term that some ignorant people use when there is no logical argument left. It is the easy option, and can be seen for the pathetic excuse that it usually engenders. To justify someome's actions, (As I have said countless time before) just because they are a "Minority" is, and always will be, erronious in the extreme.
@pydo7 Not exactly, I'm working off of the point you made earlier about trying to "understand and excuse" someone's behavior.
I think it's absurd, their hate both led them to kill other people. The difference is that one race was the oppressor and one race, the oppressed, was simply reacting to their environment.
There were a great deal more Native Americans than there were white man, this isn't about minorities, this is about one group of people picking on another.
@Sshelly34213 The massacre of his family led Ethan to persue the person responsible for abducting the girls that were his Nieces. He knew what their fate would be, indeed, he found the older girl raped to death and left naked for the Buzzards. He had the compassion to wrap her abused body in his coat and bury her . A traumatic situation in any cicumstance. Any real Man would do the same. What would YOU do? RACISM? BOLLOCKS!!!!!
@pydo7 She wouldn't have been found dead if Ethan were more focused on getting them back then trying to ambush the Native Americans.
Ethan's search was fueled purely by hatred and need for revenge. Yes I understand his character's emotions, but they got in the way of rescuing his nieces. This is what I'm trying to point out. Who rescue's Debbie at the end?? Martin, if anything Ethan just makes it worse by trying to kill her when she finally finds them.
@Sshelly34213 You are now talking Rubbish,and everybody who reads this knows that. Ethan was simply going in persuit of the murderers of his family. He saw that a group of them broke away from the rest, and figured out, correctly, as it happened, what they were up to. You are an Anarchist, therefore you care nothing about anybody, or their feelings. Why don't you fuck off and do everybody a favour?
Agree with some of what you say but still think that pydo7 is correct about your intent. That is to make the white man look bad and the Native American look completely innocent. They were perfect people. Of course they did spend thousands of years involved in tribal warfare. But that is OK because whitey wasn't involved in that. I am also offended by your use of the term "Native American" I am a native American born in the USA in 1950. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
What cool aid? Just because someone brings up a historical fact, like white men oppressed everyone in the world up until recently doesn't mean they're brainwashed. Why don't you take some history classes and decide for yourself. America would put immigration bans on people they didn't like. The white race has a dark history, why are people so quick to deny that? Or assume that anyone who even brings up that fact is brainwashed?
@Sshelly34213 A Dark History indeed. But if you would care to examine the History of whatever Race of People, you will find Exploitation, Atrocity, Greed, etc.etc. etc. Most of the Original "Native American" Tribes hated each other, and their idea of recreation of a Saturday afternoon was not to watch the Ball game, but to go and steal the other tribe's women and cattle, (The cattle being the more valuable) Your sentiments are, I am sure, very laudable. But, the reality is something different.
@pydo7 Yes but hate is not the same as seeing entire races as subhuman, that's all I'm trying to point out. I'm sure there were certain tribes that may have seen each other as such, but the culture and mindset of the white race during the 1500s-early 20th century was extremely immoral.
Indians were looked at as something savage, beastly, and subhuman.
@Sshelly34213 I have never said that the people that you call "Indians"were Subhuman. Quite the opposite in fact. They had a culture streaching back into the mists of time. It was different, that's all. The thing that they suffered from most was sheer Greed by others who would seek to exploit them for monetary gain, something that they had no comprehention of. The Rich will always prevail, because they have the Power.Those that are seen to be poor, will always be downtrodden, whoever they are.
@pydo7 I never said you said that, I SAID that white men thought Native Americans or Indians were subhuman because that was their thought process during that time period. Many believed, prior to evolution, that colored people were inferior to them because their skin color was darker. Once evolution was discovered, people twisted the idea into social Darwinism trying to excuse their feelings of superiority and hatred toward native and colored people.
@pydo7 I was just using that to reinforce my point that everyone in this film is racist for a reason. Because most people were racist, it was a natural perspective that very few actually questioned.
Paul Boca actually took skulls, measured them, and concluded that people of different races were inferior because of the size of their skull.
@Sshelly34213 No, the people who made the movie and wrote the storyline are the culprits. We have been down this road before. It was indeed, as you rightly say, dictated by the times that existed when this movie was made.Thankfully, through education (You know all about that, don't you?) attitudes have changed. I think that you will find that "Most People" have just voted the first President of the USA to this Office who is not, shall we say, the same as his all his predesessors. Again, OK?
@Sshelly34213 My main objection to your comments is that you use the word "Racist" with alarming regularity. This is an easy option for people who have little experience with different Ethnic origins than yourself (You have already stated, quite unneccessarily, that you are "White").This speaks volumes as to your motives here. I have stated before, that your sentiments are highly laudable in your defense of the underdog. However, you will find that the underdog can fight very well for themselves
@pydo7 Yes because we are having a discussion about people from the 1800s! Being a racist was a regularity then. They couldn't fight then, that's what I'm trying to point out.
Ah you're presuming to know things you don't, stop it. You can't analyze someone's words with no evidence. I know plenty of people who have ethnic variety and have family members who are of many different ethnic backgrounds.
How can you say I wasn't wrong before, but then say I'm wrong now? Make up your damn mind.
@pydo7 You keep diverting the subject by implying that I am referring to minorities in America today when I'm not. Things are much better for people, but racism and discrimination was overwhelming during the late 1800s and early 1900s.
This is the thought process of Ethan's character, that's the time period he comes from. What is so painful to you about admitting this? There are people still today alive who opposed desegregation, you can't just wave a wand and get rid of racism. It's not gone.
@Sshelly34213 Shelley, old Girl, I understand the PAIN of Prejudice. I have Special Needs and I struggle each day to be accepted by the community in France where I live. The locals call me "witless retard", "intellectual dwarf" and "moronic butt-hole", because I have a named carer and go on outings in a Yellow Bus.
P.S. May strength and honour be yours now and always.
@pybo7 kenny old lad, I told you that I WAS QUITE PREPARED TO DO BATTLE WITH YOU WHEREVER YOU CHOSE TO TO TAKE ME ON. You are the Scum Of the Earth, the Runt Of The Litter etc, etc, etc, pyBo7? grow up you stupid bastard.
@Sshelly34213 I hope you will have noticed that the psychopath posing as pyBo7 is in fact 940kenneth, and not me. He is known as the "Twat of the Tube", and resides in one of "Her Majestie's" Prisons. He posts messages via a mobile 'phone, secreted into his place of confinement by means that you may only imagine. Look out for the "b" instead of the "d" in my Handle. Happy Hunting
@Sshelly34213 By the way, I already Blocked you some time ago from my chanel, along with old psycho' kenny boy. Kindly do not post any further comments to me here, becuase I will not reply. OK?
@Sshelly34213 Charming language to be sure. Call me Old Fashioned, but this is not very Ladylike behaviour from you. You, to my utter disappointment, I hasten to add, do not measure up to the alleged High Ideals that you purport to expound. On the one hand, you fight for the underdog, which is very laudable, but on the other hand, you are disingenuous in the extreme. I have told you before that I try to protect the vulnerable against the bully. Most other people just seem to take the piss.
@pydo7 I don't care about being lady-like, language is language, it doesn't really matter how you get it out.
Personally I find actions speak MUCH louder than words. Is it really proper to block someone for no reason? is that more polite than simply using the word shit, bitch, fuck, cunt (all words made up by man anyway) And then tell them that as a way to get back at them for simply saying that they wanted no part in some petty argument? As a way to hurt them??
@pydo7 What was that about "charming language"? I remember a very 'charming' little comment you posted to young Laura a while ago: something gynaecological (as per), something about the smell frightening the pigs. What a real charmer you are. I don't think you're in a position to be lecturing anyone on "charming language", boy.
@pydo7 And I don't think 'twat' is a term used in the US. But you and I know, don't we, pydo. When you were bullying young Laura recently, it refers to the part of her anatomy you were fixated on, wasn't it? And you, old enough to be her grandfather... Now, THAT'S creepy. Yeesh!
@pydo7 What's all this, pydo? Has someone upset you? Calm yourself. "Twat of the Tube"? "Her Majesty’s Prisons"? I thought you disapproved of fictions? Dear, oh dear. You really are not very good at this, are you, mate?
@pydo7 Shelley may well tell you herself, of course, but I also said in my PM that remarkably for such a glaringly obvious idiot you have an unfeasibly high opinion of yourself. I said too that you'd been sexually bullying a 17-year-old girl. I also said that I'd been making fun of you, which, because you are an egoist, you hate. And I made clear that I was not suggesting she "take sides", but, as she has already discovered, you are full of shit and I was bringing you down a peg or two.
@940kenneth The SUPPOSED 17 YEAR OLD was in fact you. I really don't give a monkeys what shelly thinks. As for taking me down a peg or tow, as I have repeated many times before, YOU WISH!
@940kenneth Kenny old fruit, as I have said before, Anybody can be Anybody they wish to be on You Tube. All that you say means nothing, as everybody knows. Everybody that reads your comments knows you for what you are, (A bloody Psycho'). You have just been daft enough to admit it ,("Yes, pyBo was my joke at your expense"). Regarding our verbal battle, you have not yet graduated from First Grade. Put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye. By the way, you are a "Racist"
@pydo7 Excuse me, but I've never made any attempt to "stalk" your profile before, so there was no need to block me.
I'm not doing this for spiteful reasons and there's no need to act nasty about it. I'm doing it because I don't want to get caught up in something like this. Arguments I can deal with, youtube stalking and beyond the comment page arguments, I don't want to get involved in. i've had people stalk me before and it's mean and shitty. I don't want to deal with that.
@pydo7 This isn't about being OLD, this is about simply being a mean and nasty person. You are simply a nasty person, it has nothing to do with racial issues or anything.
Maybe there's a reason why this guy is heckling you.
@940kenneth Keep it up kenny old lad. Go on, dig yourself deeper. Nobody believes a bloody word that yoiu say. By the way, my comments are not sexually explicit and you know it. However, the same can't be said for you. This is a matter of record you psycho'. My exact words to Laura's mott were, and I quote,"The stench from your COLOQUIALISM is frightening the Pigs"
@pydo7 "COLLOQUIALISM"? Yes, mate, I remember; it was in the context of numerous indulgent gynaecological references. And what part of Laura's anatomy did the euphemism refer to...? And what did you mean by "stench"...? You sick fuck.
@940kenneth Hey kenny, you keep refering to "Gynaecological" matters. I associate this term with the Birth of Children. Is this some other perversion of yours with regard to your "FIXATION WITH MINORS"?
You possibly think that every bugger who asks for a "Black Coffee" is a Racist too, along with old "shellydyke"
@pydo7 Hey, pydo: YOU'RE the one with the obsession with minors, remember; that's YOUR department. I'VE got the evidence! Ha! Ha!
And I think you'll find that the branch of medicine relating to childbirth is obstetrics. But then, as someone who KNOWS he has a superior intellect, I shouldn't have to tell you that. Ha! Ha!
@pydo7 What are you on about, boy? What a fucking donkey!
"Good stuff"? Ha! Ha! Don't tell me that you’re so intellectually bankrupt that you've got to recycle that old shite - in public? Ha! Ha! Go on, boy; let everyone see what a witless fucking arsehole you are! Brilliant! Can't wait to comment on it...
@940kenneth Witless kenny? If wit was Shit, you would be terminally constipated boy. Oh, have I said that before, am I repeating myself yet again? Must be catching. Stand a little further down wind would you, your smell is upsetting the Pigs.
@pydo7 "If wit was shit..."? And if shit were wit, you'd be Oscar Wilde.
By the way, what happened to this "superior intelect [sic]" of yours? Looking forward to seeing evidence of it at some point. In your next contribution, perhaps...?
@Sshelly34213 Seriously, I DO get called things like "clueless f*ckwit", "ridiculous troll" and "butt ugly retard".
And I DO have several issues. I'm prone, for example, to SUDDEN and wholly WITLESS OUTBURSTS characterized by a CONFUSED and IMPOTENT ANGER. I am a sad case, I am; and yet, despite this, I have an unfeasibly high opinion of myself.
I HATE to admit it, but you were right in all you said, Shelley old girl; I was wrong.
@pydo7 Do you see why it's impossible for Ethan to NOT be racist?
Everyone in this film is racist except for Martin because Martin is part Native America...he's on the receiving side of racism several times throughout the film.
@Sshelly34213 Yes, but not in the "Modern" way. When I was growing up in the Fifties and Sixties, John Wayne was every Red Blooded Male's Role Model of Masculinity, Correctness, Strength and gave me, at least, a mission to protect the weak from the Bully. May he be remembered forever.
I believe it was Jesse Hibbs who FIRST said that ....THE SEARCHERS was the best western ever made. Mr Hibbs, in my opinion, was correct.
lanetemple 6 months ago 2
A lot of violinists found work in this picture.
z978ady 7 months ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
o my bad your so brilliant!!! what a shit sniffer!!! read my post you freaking trog,what ethan did is no more racist that what the commanches did,take time to study history you piss puppy,instead of sitting in that no talent bums lap and dude i'm serious get some help,your all over the map,have a happy!!!
2koolbenny1eye 10 months ago
scorsese is a true genuis in many ways the idiot speilberg on the other hand couldnt tell you the difference between his ass and his face,to say that waynes character is racist is just plain stupid.people back then were fighting to survive,indians and settlers alike .they both did things that seem racist to us now,but i could no more sit in judgement and make a statement such as that than he can,spoken like a true liberal you no talent bum
2koolbenny1eye 10 months ago
@2koolbenny1eye
You are a retard. Scorsese and Spielberg make essentially the same exact point about the Ethan Edwards character, and the film does make it clear that the character is racist. Blatantly clear.
larma7 10 months ago 9
@2koolbenny1eye John Ford has stated that there was much racial tension between both Whites and Native Americans, but he does make clear that both Ethan Edwards, and the Comanche Chief Scar, are individually racist. In that sense, Spielberg is correct.
supermario0527 9 months ago 6
@supermario0527 Hes not racist . She has been tainted by having been raped and then having concentual sex with an indian . Ethan struggles with this she is kin , but she is also tainted ruined if you will. Like having a daughter marry a black man. Ethan is a comlicated man.
Ettoredipugnar 7 months ago 2
@Ettoredipugnar I agree with you that she has been tainted. I just personally believe the film does show signs of bigotry in Ethan's character.
supermario0527 7 months ago 2
i wish i was as strong as john wayne
did you see how effortlessly he lift her up ?
either way if you know his workout please let me know
RayWilliamJohansen 10 months ago
Stephen Spielberg is an idiot.
Abbeysums 1 year ago
@Abbeysums your a faggot
illestinthagame30 1 year ago
@illestinthagame30 My what an intelligent response, but then I see by your channel that you aren't exactly the intellectual type in any respect.
Abbeysums 1 year ago
Left Wing Trotsky diatribe and they mean Western Destuction/genocide.
Racist used by the supreme haters LOL.
Nationsnotregimes 1 year ago
@Nationsnotregimes What's that you say?
I didn't understand a bloody word.
Say again?
pydo7 1 year ago
Ethan is an American of his time, an automatic racist. He was in the Civil War on the losing side. He's got PTSD. He's spent the four years since the war being an outlaw. The woman he loves married his brother(?), probably because he couldn't settle down. He's ready to kill anyone he meets. The only thing he's got is this family. John Wayne is acting here, not being "John Wayne." This is a great movie, and it resonates with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam and all our history.
Axgoodofdunemaul 1 year ago
Even Marxists like Godard and liberals like Spielberg have championed The Searchers as one of the greatest films ever made.
People are going to get all bent out of shape cause the Native American barbarians are portrayed by white men? LOL, Who cares? how many films of that era did the same thing?
Idattani 1 year ago
@Idattani No one got bent out of shape, the poster who keeps incessantly replying to me keeps trying to convince me that the hatred Wayne's character feels for ALL Native Americans including Martin-who has done nothing wrong-is justified. This is how the original argument started, he also has an odd tendency to justify racism for some reason.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Idattani John Ford, the director himself, was actually very liberal. His portrayal of Native Americans was very ahead of its time, the movie is often championed for that reason. To people today it just kind of comes off as racist, but the film was groundbreaking for its time in that sense.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
People, go to FOXHUNTING-FOLLOWING THE HUNT.
Entertainment beckons.
pydo7 1 year ago
Just to refresh people's memories, as to the reason that I originally commented on this video, was the use of the term "RACIST" in describing John Wayne's actions in seeking retributions for the Atrocity perpetrated against his Family. I said, and again, I quote, "I don't care if the perpetrators of this Atrocity were Red, White, or from the Planet Zog, his reaction would have been the same".
Anybody Scum Bag, Devient, Low Life Pervert who say different, is indeed a liar for all to see.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Your problem, pydo, is that you genuinely believe you are superior. In the other thread, you spoke of your "intelect [sic]" being superior to mine. Your comments to me, to Shelley, to Laura, and others, are all those of someone who thinks themselves superior. Which is remarkable, because you are in truth a witless fucking idiot. When anyone presumes to argue with you, you get pissy and unpleasant. Get over it, mate. You bang on about intellect - and you can't even fucking spell it!
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Sticks and Stones kenny boy, Sticks ans Stones.
Again and again and again, is this the best that you can do?
PATHETIC.
By the way, I do not "THINK" that I am superior to your Low Life Self, I "KNOW" that I am.
Everybody else thinks so too.
Have a nice day.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 “Everybody” thinks that you’re intellectually superior to me? Well, notwithstanding the fact that I don’t give a shit, here’s a challenge for you: Name one of them. Ha! Ha!
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Not a problem old lad, pybo7 has said so many times.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 So when I ask you, who is this "everybody" that supports your claim of intellectual superiority, the only name you can cite is pybo7? OK... Ha! Ha! Says it all.
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Hey kenny, you have more repeats in your rantings than the BBC. Boring boring boring. What's next, Laura's Mott again?
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 You're not STILL after Laura? For fuck sake! How many times do you have to be told? She's just a girl. You want to be ashamed of yourself, you dirty old man.
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth You record is stuck old lad. I say again, come up with something new or bugger off, this is getting very tiresome. If you are not careful, then ALL your comments of a repetitive nature may well be "Removed".
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 How you gettin' along on the Pet Shop Boys threads?
No sign yet of your kindred warrior spirit buddy, boy... Ha! Ha! Ha!
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Pet Shop Boys?, Are you calling them "Racists" too kenny? Don't do that old lad, someone might think that "It's A Sin"
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Or they might think that you’re “Being Boring”. (No fucking surprise there...)
940kenneth 1 year ago
Hey people, Sshelly34213 is a self confessed "DYKE"
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 “Dyke”? For fuck sake, pydo, you really are stuck in the Dark Ages, aren’t you, boy?
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth OK, "Lesbien" then.
What's in a name?
pydo7 1 year ago
And another thing, kenny old lad: As soon as I get some help from my special kindred spirit buddy, I'll give you what for. It shouldn't be too long now... Any day now... Oh yes... Then, you'll be sorry...
Until then, I'm goin' to GIVE YOU A BURST OF UPPER CASE TO SHOW YOU I MEAN BUSINESS, YOU BLOODY BASTARD.
I'm in "Strasburg”" I am.
pybo7 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And another thing, kenny old lad: As soon as I get some help from my special kindred spirit buddy, I’ll give you what for. It shouldn’t be too long now… Any day now… Oh yes… Then, you’ll be sorry…
Until then, I’m goin’ to GIVE YOU A BURST OF UPPER CASE TO SHOW YOU I MEAN BUSINESS, YOU BLOODY BASTARD.
I’m in “Strasburg”, I am.
pybo7 1 year ago
Was it something I said?.
pydo7 1 year ago
i don't care if john wayne was racist he was a great actor and super strong
RayWilliamJohansen 1 year ago
@RayWilliamJohansen I'm with you buddy.
pydo7 1 year ago
@RayWilliamJohansen I don't really care either, but I think it's important not to deny it about the guy.
Like I said he was probably just a product of his time period
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 You are certainly not wrong there.
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 You are confusing the part he plays with the man. In War of the Wildcats, FortApache, Hondo & Mcclintock he's sympathetic to the Indians. My God you wouldn't call Sir Christopher Lee a monster just because he's played them.
macemcguire 1 year ago
@macemcguire No...John Wayne actually disliked Indians, there are numerous quotes from the man himself that support this. It has nothing to do with the roles he plays.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Where are these quotes? Ive never seen or heard them.
macemcguire 1 year ago
@macemcguire An interview for Playboy,
"Did John Wayne say that, regarding Native Americans, "I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves"
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 If you consider that a racist statement, then whereever you're living was once Indian land, so pack up & move out. Also remmember that the Indians themselves seized land from others. The Sioux ran the Apaches out of Texas for example.Even as I write this I realize its piontless argueing with you so I'll delete without reading any reply from you. You're a good kid at heart but naive.
macemcguire 1 year ago
@macemcguire Well if is a racist comment, the Indians were not selfish simply for wanting to live on their OWN land.
No I'm not naive, John wayne was a racist person. Racism has nothing to do with hatred, it has to do with thinking other races are inferior. John Wayne admitted that he felt Blacks and Indians were inferior, that's just the truth. Man talk about naive! The guy was born in the early 1900! Of course he was a racist, who wasn't at that time?
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@macemcguire Why don't you go read the entire interview for yourself and see?
John Wayne was simply a product of his time, I'm not saying you can't watch his films or like his characters. I love Hondo, I loved The Searchers, but I'm not stupid enough to actually think he was exactly like those characters.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Let me ask you this question. macemcquire has got it exactly right, for there is something equally as bad as Racism, if not worse.
It is called "Tribalism", and it is endemic throughout the whole World.
It involves hatred between people of the same race, but of different "Tribes" or "Sects".
The "Racist" claim is very often used as a means to an end.
If you do not understand this, then you are not qualified to comment on this video, or anything else for that matter.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 While I agree that Tribalism is worse...I do NOT agree that racism ends conflict in any way...
Why would you want to justify racism? I don't understand that.
Having a youtube account and an email address "qualifies" me to comment on this page, a monkey is by all means qualified.
Stop trying to discredit me by insulting me or trying to lesson my intelligence. You're a human being with a brain, use it and then we'll discuss this. Until then, stop embarrassing yourself.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I do not try, or indeed, I do not wish, to justify Racism at all. My comments, from the outset, have refered to the outrage that any right minded person would feel on discovering the atrocity inflicted on his family.
Just think of what you would feel like if you came home and found that your loved ones had been butchered so.
Racism be buggered, for we are all one Family in this World, if we only let it be.
I say again, grow up Shelly and join the real world.
pydo7 1 year ago 2
@pydo7 They're actually NOT about that, you're lying. Our initial argument started with an offhand comment you made about the fact that Ethan's hatred of ALL Native Americans was perfectly understandable considering the circumstances. By doing so, you don't get Ford's message. We slaughtered Native Americans because of reasoning such as that. One group killed white people, they got revenge and killed a village and so on and so forth until we come to Ethan/Scar's conflict.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@pydo7 Again here you are excusing his character and making up your own reactions to them.
Audiences did not like the character of Ethan because he was vastly different from what John Wayne usually played. Wayne was usually the hero-type, tolerant, open minded, wise, in this film he's wrong at times-you'll notice that Martin gets things right where Wayne gets them wrong, he's violent, he's wrathful, he's not tolerant.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Notice how Ethan does not walk into the door at the end of the film, there is no place for him, there is no room for him left in the west. So he turns away, a bit hurt, a bit worse for the wear, and walks away from the camera, walks away from us.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 They do say that when you seek revenge, then you should dig two graves.
I have wondered about this down the years, and have come to the conclusion that, if you have the emotion to seek revenge for some loved one badly done to, then maybe you will come to realise that this emotion will be directed at yourself, after having possibly killed the perpetrator of your emotion, and so making you a murderer, a person that formerly you would have despised.
Does that make sense?
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 If you notice Ethan grabbing his right elbow with his left hand before he leaves, it actually has a story behind it. His good friend, Harry Carey's widow as on set that day. He said this one is for your husband, who did that signature grab playing alongside the Duke.
generalares 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 If your reply even remotely resembles "NO", then you are not fit to be included as a member of the Human Race.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Ethan was a racist before his family was even killed from the start of the film. I don't justify that.
I understand his reaction to his family's death would be that of seething hatred for anything related to Native Americans. I'm not saying this is justified...it isn't. He wished an entire tribe dead at one point in the film. I'm saying I understand where his hatred comes from from his family's death and onward. Before then however, there is no real excuse.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Hey, at last we are in agreemant. That took some doing didn't it?
Your last statement was in accord with what I have been saying all along.
You say, and I quote, "I'm saying I understand where his Hatred comes from, from his Family's death and onwards".
Any Racism before or after is irrelevant in relation to this incident, and yes, there is no excuse for racism of any kind.
We got there in the end.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 We were never NOT in agreement on this issue and quite frankly I'm sick of you acting like I don't think there's anything wrong with being raped and murdered. I am a woman, who's a scrappy 4 foot 11 and three quarter inches tall. It's a constant worry for me.
As I said, I always understood it, but I don't agree that it was the proper response. It's like killing someone who killed your friend. That's just revenge, not justice.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Hey, simmer down.
Enough now little gal.
You have fought your corner like a good 'un.
Primitive it is, but Primitive it was.
Unfortunately, Primitive it still seems to be.
You take care of yourself.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 lol Thank you. Don't worry I can kick some serious ass too, I'm thinking about picking up boxing and kick boxing. I think it's important for woman to learn how to defend herself.
I get your viewpoints and I understand the intense emotions that one feels for their family. I understand the natural reaction Wayne's character feels, I just think his character was flawed beforehand as well. Anyway, I think this discussion has pretty much been over done. Take care.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Four foot eleven and three quarter inches in stature you say?
Well, I am six foot and three quarter inches tall, and muscular with it.
Worry not, anybody bothers you, you let me know.
I have been known to kick serious ass.
Justice and Revenge are close bedfellows.
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Who tries to justify if it's revenge or justice? Ethan was doing what he wanted to do, and never once tried to justify everything he did. This story is what it is, and damn good filmmaking at that.
generalares 1 year ago
@generalares I never said anything about the film making, John Ford was an artist.
The whole idea of the film is that of justice v revenge. The era in which the film takes place saw the departure of individual justice aka revenge (which represents Ethan) and the entrance of actual justice (Martin.) Ethan's character is that of the untamed west of the past, the lone wanderer and nomad. I think Martin represents civilization which is inherently the death of the west we knew if you think about it.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@generalares At least how the west was portrayed at the time, the west was seen as something filled with open spaces and opportunity, freedom always taken away by the Native Americans. (as opposed to the white man also taking something away from them) There were heroes and villains, the portrayal of this west was a bit simplistic. It wasn't until films like The Searchers and Shane, that realism started to enter the picture.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@generalares John wayne later said that he would never play another character like Ethan because Ethan wasn't a straight hero. John Wayne liked representing those types of figures.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 That seems like him. But it was a great stretch for him. One of his best performances I think.
generalares 1 year ago
@generalares I definitely agree, which is why I found it sad that Wayne refused to portray such characters.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@generalares One of his best performances indeed.
Glad that you agree.
Bon Noel Little gal.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 I think we got started on this and then changed the subject, but I think it has to do with the themes of this film. The wild untamed west finally becoming tamed and ousting the wild savage emotions such as that of Ethan. Ethan's anger and sorrow are justified, but his actions and beliefs are not. All of this is done by a very primitive and dangerous emotions all human beings have. That same primitive thing we try desperately to control with law and justice.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@pydo7 Scar said his children were killed by white people and that's why he does what he does to whites.
Is that right? No, I never said it was right, in fact I was simply pointing out that this logic leads to the more racism and more killing.
Why is Ethan so rude to Martin? Someone who had his own mother killed by Scar? Because he's Native American and Ethan hates all native Americans. Now stop putting words in my mouth and making me look like the bad guy.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Ethan is rude to Martin for a reason. Ethan loves Martin like a Son. You are always harder on the people that you love, because you want them to be perfect, and they very often fall far short of yor expectations.
Ethan is very likely dying inside at the atrocity to his family, and the woman that he loved.
Shelly, you have a lot to learn.
I do so sincerely hope that you do not learn it the way Ethan and Martin had to in this work of Fiction.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 No he's not "rude" to him, he's blatantly RACIST, from the beginning. He remarks about him being part Cherokee like it's a bad thing.
Again racism is not about hating anyone, it's about thinking they're inferior. Ethan's comments to Martin about him being part Native American are done as a way to make Martin feel inferior about that. Clearly Ethan sees him being part Indian as a vile and disgusting thing. He even wishes death on all Indians at one point.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
Is there anybody there?
pydo7 1 year ago
Racist is a fllthy Communist term and is also a term for Get YT.
Nationsnotregimes 1 year ago
@Nationsnotregimes Ecxuse me, forgive my ignorance, but I am not familliar with this abbreviation "Get YT"? Could you explain please?
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 I have no idea what "Get YT" means either. Hopefully Nationsnotregimes will enlighten us as to the meaning of this week's "buzz abbreviation". This may be a real trendsetter. I can throw it off to my friends. They will sit there scratching their heads for awhile, wondering WTF I am talking about.
squitzy 1 year ago
John Wayne was not a racist. Someone needs to sue you people for defamation and lies.
Hudsucker94 1 year ago
@Hudsucker94 "Hooray"
pydo7 1 year ago
@Hudsucker94 Bullshit, He didn't think black people were superior enough to hold office, racism is not about HATING a race, it's about finding one superior or inferior to another.
John Wayne did not HATE black people, there were many instances in which he would have stood up for them, from what I've heard in personal stories. He was STILL a racist because he didn't think African Americans should be able to hold positions in public office. This is from a few interviews, playboy and Barbara W.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Hudsucker94 Also pydo and I are not discussing John Wayne's racism, we're talking about Ethan's racism in the film and what it means. Pydo seems to think it's perfectly fine to be racist, despite the fact that almost every Native American in my country is extinct. I don't.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Excuse me again all to hell. I have never indicated the I think Racism is fine in any shape or form. My argument is about people's natural reaction to personal disaster and nothing else.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Then why do you think Ethan is still a hero, despite being a racist? Despite the fact that Ethan's racism led to more than just one family being burned and a women gang raped?
The hatred Ethan felt led to the entire genocide of a race, a personal disaster to someone does not justify this.
But you're doing that, you're making excuse for seething hatred.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 The racism of Scar, and the atrocities carried out by Renegades of his, and other tribes, only excasserbated, and gave credence to, the retalliation of superior opposing forces. AGAIN, I must make my point, Hatred of a person, or people, who have done harm to you and yours, does NOT make you a Racist.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Again I never justified the racism of Scar, you justified the racism of Ethan.
And there is a huge difference between the hatred the Native Americans felt for the European and the hatred the Europeans felt for the Native Americans. The Europeans wiped the Native Americans off the face of the earth, shoved them off their land, nearly killed off all of their food supply and stole the remaining. White Europeans were greedy fucking pigs.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I explained the reason why Ethan did what he did. It is called retribution, fuelled by outrage and grief, not Racism. You persistantly dodge this issue. There is no difference between Hatred of whatever sort, and by whatever Race of People. A lot of people are "Greedy Fucking Pigs". I think that, by the emotion of our discourse, at the very least, that you and I are not.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 And it was fueled by racial hatred, there is no justifying that.
This was a huge problem between the white Europeans and the Native Americans.
How did this start in the first place? White Europeans were greedy fucking pigs. King Leopold of Belgium had the Natives enslaved, tortured, and beaten, exploited their land, all because he was greedy. Sorry but there was nothing but absolute GREED the fostered the relations between the Natives and whites.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 You are going off track here. But there again, you have a one track mind. You use the term "Racist" with inpunity. It is a term that some ignorant people use when there is no logical argument left. It is the easy option, and can be seen for the pathetic excuse that it usually engenders. To justify someome's actions, (As I have said countless time before) just because they are a "Minority" is, and always will be, erronious in the extreme.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Not exactly, I'm working off of the point you made earlier about trying to "understand and excuse" someone's behavior.
I think it's absurd, their hate both led them to kill other people. The difference is that one race was the oppressor and one race, the oppressed, was simply reacting to their environment.
There were a great deal more Native Americans than there were white man, this isn't about minorities, this is about one group of people picking on another.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 The massacre of his family led Ethan to persue the person responsible for abducting the girls that were his Nieces. He knew what their fate would be, indeed, he found the older girl raped to death and left naked for the Buzzards. He had the compassion to wrap her abused body in his coat and bury her . A traumatic situation in any cicumstance. Any real Man would do the same. What would YOU do? RACISM? BOLLOCKS!!!!!
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 She wouldn't have been found dead if Ethan were more focused on getting them back then trying to ambush the Native Americans.
Ethan's search was fueled purely by hatred and need for revenge. Yes I understand his character's emotions, but they got in the way of rescuing his nieces. This is what I'm trying to point out. Who rescue's Debbie at the end?? Martin, if anything Ethan just makes it worse by trying to kill her when she finally finds them.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 You are now talking Rubbish,and everybody who reads this knows that. Ethan was simply going in persuit of the murderers of his family. He saw that a group of them broke away from the rest, and figured out, correctly, as it happened, what they were up to. You are an Anarchist, therefore you care nothing about anybody, or their feelings. Why don't you fuck off and do everybody a favour?
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213
Agree with some of what you say but still think that pydo7 is correct about your intent. That is to make the white man look bad and the Native American look completely innocent. They were perfect people. Of course they did spend thousands of years involved in tribal warfare. But that is OK because whitey wasn't involved in that. I am also offended by your use of the term "Native American" I am a native American born in the USA in 1950. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
squitzy 1 year ago
@squitzy Well no, because it wasn't, I AM white!
What cool aid? Just because someone brings up a historical fact, like white men oppressed everyone in the world up until recently doesn't mean they're brainwashed. Why don't you take some history classes and decide for yourself. America would put immigration bans on people they didn't like. The white race has a dark history, why are people so quick to deny that? Or assume that anyone who even brings up that fact is brainwashed?
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 A Dark History indeed. But if you would care to examine the History of whatever Race of People, you will find Exploitation, Atrocity, Greed, etc.etc. etc. Most of the Original "Native American" Tribes hated each other, and their idea of recreation of a Saturday afternoon was not to watch the Ball game, but to go and steal the other tribe's women and cattle, (The cattle being the more valuable) Your sentiments are, I am sure, very laudable. But, the reality is something different.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Yes but hate is not the same as seeing entire races as subhuman, that's all I'm trying to point out. I'm sure there were certain tribes that may have seen each other as such, but the culture and mindset of the white race during the 1500s-early 20th century was extremely immoral.
Indians were looked at as something savage, beastly, and subhuman.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I have never said that the people that you call "Indians"were Subhuman. Quite the opposite in fact. They had a culture streaching back into the mists of time. It was different, that's all. The thing that they suffered from most was sheer Greed by others who would seek to exploit them for monetary gain, something that they had no comprehention of. The Rich will always prevail, because they have the Power.Those that are seen to be poor, will always be downtrodden, whoever they are.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 I never said you said that, I SAID that white men thought Native Americans or Indians were subhuman because that was their thought process during that time period. Many believed, prior to evolution, that colored people were inferior to them because their skin color was darker. Once evolution was discovered, people twisted the idea into social Darwinism trying to excuse their feelings of superiority and hatred toward native and colored people.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Didn't I just say that? Go to the top of the Class.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 I was just using that to reinforce my point that everyone in this film is racist for a reason. Because most people were racist, it was a natural perspective that very few actually questioned.
Paul Boca actually took skulls, measured them, and concluded that people of different races were inferior because of the size of their skull.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I saw the programme. Paul Boca is a daft twat.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Exactly he's just typical of the moronic racists of his day, sadly most people agreed with his sentiment.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 No, the people who made the movie and wrote the storyline are the culprits. We have been down this road before. It was indeed, as you rightly say, dictated by the times that existed when this movie was made.Thankfully, through education (You know all about that, don't you?) attitudes have changed. I think that you will find that "Most People" have just voted the first President of the USA to this Office who is not, shall we say, the same as his all his predesessors. Again, OK?
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 My main objection to your comments is that you use the word "Racist" with alarming regularity. This is an easy option for people who have little experience with different Ethnic origins than yourself (You have already stated, quite unneccessarily, that you are "White").This speaks volumes as to your motives here. I have stated before, that your sentiments are highly laudable in your defense of the underdog. However, you will find that the underdog can fight very well for themselves
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@pydo7 Yes because we are having a discussion about people from the 1800s! Being a racist was a regularity then. They couldn't fight then, that's what I'm trying to point out.
Ah you're presuming to know things you don't, stop it. You can't analyze someone's words with no evidence. I know plenty of people who have ethnic variety and have family members who are of many different ethnic backgrounds.
How can you say I wasn't wrong before, but then say I'm wrong now? Make up your damn mind.
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@pydo7 You keep diverting the subject by implying that I am referring to minorities in America today when I'm not. Things are much better for people, but racism and discrimination was overwhelming during the late 1800s and early 1900s.
This is the thought process of Ethan's character, that's the time period he comes from. What is so painful to you about admitting this? There are people still today alive who opposed desegregation, you can't just wave a wand and get rid of racism. It's not gone.
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@pydo7 I have seen racism every day, in my own home.
It's still a regularity in America.
It's illegal to discriminate against other people, thank god, but people are still goddamn racist!
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Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Shelley, old Girl, I understand the PAIN of Prejudice. I have Special Needs and I struggle each day to be accepted by the community in France where I live. The locals call me "witless retard", "intellectual dwarf" and "moronic butt-hole", because I have a named carer and go on outings in a Yellow Bus.
P.S. May strength and honour be yours now and always.
pybo7 1 year ago
@pybo7 kenny old lad, I told you that I WAS QUITE PREPARED TO DO BATTLE WITH YOU WHEREVER YOU CHOSE TO TO TAKE ME ON. You are the Scum Of the Earth, the Runt Of The Litter etc, etc, etc, pyBo7? grow up you stupid bastard.
pydo7 1 year ago
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pybo7 1 year ago
@pybo7 Is that seriously true or are you pulling my leg? Because you write perfectly eloquently.
Making fun of people with special needs makes you a pariah in my state, oddly enough, racism is perfectly fine.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I hope you will have noticed that the psychopath posing as pyBo7 is in fact 940kenneth, and not me. He is known as the "Twat of the Tube", and resides in one of "Her Majestie's" Prisons. He posts messages via a mobile 'phone, secreted into his place of confinement by means that you may only imagine. Look out for the "b" instead of the "d" in my Handle. Happy Hunting
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Nope...I didn't really notice that at all...
Yeesh that's really creepy!
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Not very odservant then are you?
pydo7 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 By the way, I already Blocked you some time ago from my chanel, along with old psycho' kenny boy. Kindly do not post any further comments to me here, becuase I will not reply. OK?
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 So fuck you for not understanding asshole.
You try being a 21 year old girl and being harassed by sex predators and fucking bullies.
This guy is just playing a joke on you, you've never been ACTUALLY harassed.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Charming language to be sure. Call me Old Fashioned, but this is not very Ladylike behaviour from you. You, to my utter disappointment, I hasten to add, do not measure up to the alleged High Ideals that you purport to expound. On the one hand, you fight for the underdog, which is very laudable, but on the other hand, you are disingenuous in the extreme. I have told you before that I try to protect the vulnerable against the bully. Most other people just seem to take the piss.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 I don't care about being lady-like, language is language, it doesn't really matter how you get it out.
Personally I find actions speak MUCH louder than words. Is it really proper to block someone for no reason? is that more polite than simply using the word shit, bitch, fuck, cunt (all words made up by man anyway) And then tell them that as a way to get back at them for simply saying that they wanted no part in some petty argument? As a way to hurt them??
You're pathetic.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@pydo7 And if you blocked me, then I wouldn't be able to leave comments on your page. So you're a liar as well.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@pydo7 What was that about "charming language"? I remember a very 'charming' little comment you posted to young Laura a while ago: something gynaecological (as per), something about the smell frightening the pigs. What a real charmer you are. I don't think you're in a position to be lecturing anyone on "charming language", boy.
940kenneth 1 year ago
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pybo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 And I don't think 'twat' is a term used in the US. But you and I know, don't we, pydo. When you were bullying young Laura recently, it refers to the part of her anatomy you were fixated on, wasn't it? And you, old enough to be her grandfather... Now, THAT'S creepy. Yeesh!
940kenneth 1 year ago
@pydo7 What's all this, pydo? Has someone upset you? Calm yourself. "Twat of the Tube"? "Her Majesty’s Prisons"? I thought you disapproved of fictions? Dear, oh dear. You really are not very good at this, are you, mate?
940kenneth 1 year ago
@pydo7 Shelley may well tell you herself, of course, but I also said in my PM that remarkably for such a glaringly obvious idiot you have an unfeasibly high opinion of yourself. I said too that you'd been sexually bullying a 17-year-old girl. I also said that I'd been making fun of you, which, because you are an egoist, you hate. And I made clear that I was not suggesting she "take sides", but, as she has already discovered, you are full of shit and I was bringing you down a peg or two.
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth The SUPPOSED 17 YEAR OLD was in fact you. I really don't give a monkeys what shelly thinks. As for taking me down a peg or tow, as I have repeated many times before, YOU WISH!
Next?.
pydo7 1 year ago
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940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Kenny old fruit, as I have said before, Anybody can be Anybody they wish to be on You Tube. All that you say means nothing, as everybody knows. Everybody that reads your comments knows you for what you are, (A bloody Psycho'). You have just been daft enough to admit it ,("Yes, pyBo was my joke at your expense"). Regarding our verbal battle, you have not yet graduated from First Grade. Put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye. By the way, you are a "Racist"
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Excuse me, but I've never made any attempt to "stalk" your profile before, so there was no need to block me.
I'm not doing this for spiteful reasons and there's no need to act nasty about it. I'm doing it because I don't want to get caught up in something like this. Arguments I can deal with, youtube stalking and beyond the comment page arguments, I don't want to get involved in. i've had people stalk me before and it's mean and shitty. I don't want to deal with that.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@pydo7 This isn't about being OLD, this is about simply being a mean and nasty person. You are simply a nasty person, it has nothing to do with racial issues or anything.
Maybe there's a reason why this guy is heckling you.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
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940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Keep it up kenny old lad. Go on, dig yourself deeper. Nobody believes a bloody word that yoiu say. By the way, my comments are not sexually explicit and you know it. However, the same can't be said for you. This is a matter of record you psycho'. My exact words to Laura's mott were, and I quote,"The stench from your COLOQUIALISM is frightening the Pigs"
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 "COLLOQUIALISM"? Yes, mate, I remember; it was in the context of numerous indulgent gynaecological references. And what part of Laura's anatomy did the euphemism refer to...? And what did you mean by "stench"...? You sick fuck.
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Hey kenny, you keep refering to "Gynaecological" matters. I associate this term with the Birth of Children. Is this some other perversion of yours with regard to your "FIXATION WITH MINORS"?
You possibly think that every bugger who asks for a "Black Coffee" is a Racist too, along with old "shellydyke"
The term, N.U.T.S., springs to mind.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Hey, pydo: YOU'RE the one with the obsession with minors, remember; that's YOUR department. I'VE got the evidence! Ha! Ha!
And I think you'll find that the branch of medicine relating to childbirth is obstetrics. But then, as someone who KNOWS he has a superior intellect, I shouldn't have to tell you that. Ha! Ha!
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Wrong again kenny, Obstetrics and Gynachology are one and the same. Try again.
Not very good at this are you kenny?.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 "Obstetrics and Gynachology [sic] are one and the same"? You are having a laugh, surely? Ha! Ha! Look them up, you clueless fucking retard.
("Not very good at this"? You're STILL smarting from that one? Brilliant.)
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth And you are still smarting from your encounter with the "Unicorn" kenny.
My Critical Acclaim on "Piggyback Mounting 2" is being compiled as we speak.
This will be broadcast, at length (So to speak) on all sites that you have commented on.
More good stuff to come, old lad.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 What are you on about, boy? What a fucking donkey!
"Good stuff"? Ha! Ha! Don't tell me that you’re so intellectually bankrupt that you've got to recycle that old shite - in public? Ha! Ha! Go on, boy; let everyone see what a witless fucking arsehole you are! Brilliant! Can't wait to comment on it...
940kenneth 1 year ago
@940kenneth Witless kenny? If wit was Shit, you would be terminally constipated boy. Oh, have I said that before, am I repeating myself yet again? Must be catching. Stand a little further down wind would you, your smell is upsetting the Pigs.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 "If wit was shit..."? And if shit were wit, you'd be Oscar Wilde.
By the way, what happened to this "superior intelect [sic]" of yours? Looking forward to seeing evidence of it at some point. In your next contribution, perhaps...?
940kenneth 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Seriously, I DO get called things like "clueless f*ckwit", "ridiculous troll" and "butt ugly retard".
And I DO have several issues. I'm prone, for example, to SUDDEN and wholly WITLESS OUTBURSTS characterized by a CONFUSED and IMPOTENT ANGER. I am a sad case, I am; and yet, despite this, I have an unfeasibly high opinion of myself.
I HATE to admit it, but you were right in all you said, Shelley old girl; I was wrong.
P.S. Do you know "Strasburg" at all?
pybo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Do you see why it's impossible for Ethan to NOT be racist?
Everyone in this film is racist except for Martin because Martin is part Native America...he's on the receiving side of racism several times throughout the film.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 I just figured this out.
You got the HOTS for Martin, right?
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Not particularly.
Do you have the "hots" for John Wayne?
Sshelly34213 1 year ago
@Sshelly34213 Yes, but not in the "Modern" way. When I was growing up in the Fifties and Sixties, John Wayne was every Red Blooded Male's Role Model of Masculinity, Correctness, Strength and gave me, at least, a mission to protect the weak from the Bully. May he be remembered forever.
pydo7 1 year ago
@pydo7 Yes but he technically WAS your bully, John Wayne hated Native Americans along with many other races.
Sshelly34213 1 year ago