Everyone here should read "If God Why Evil?" by Norman Gysler. The whole book is a response to pretty much what was just asked in this video. READ IT! :)
If God created his creation it be programmed to do as they are told and have no free will -this is not love. For God to love he must give us free will. Adam and Eve were given a choice and chose to ignore God. Each of us has a free will - to accept Christ (God) or reject him. So when people choose to not have God in this life, they exist without him after death (hell). God does not force himself on anyone. That would not be love. People send themselves to hell.
If you remove good then you naturally get evil? Wrong. If you remove good, you remove evil. You can't have one without the other - just like absolutely everything else in nature.
@soulburn2k5 God spoke light into existence. If you'll recall, he never had to speak the darkness into existence. Darkness is simply the absense of light.
@MrLovejoy91 God created Lucifer. he was created to reflect the Lords glory. but like the rest of us, he got full of himself and fell from glory cause he (lucifer) wanted to be praised. God got rid of him. Evil came about. the hatred of God was in satan because he was kicked out of heaven. satan was once an angel, but angels have a will but not the right to make it. if they go against ey have no other redemption, they are now demons. god loved us so much that he gave us a FREE will.
@BFFFL16 ok that still makes no sense if god is all knowing why would he still create an angel that would rebel and eventually become the devil and if he is so powerful why doesnt he just destroy satan
@MrLovejoy91 FREE WILL God created a free will because he loved us that much. WE CREATE THE SIN which gives they calamity and destruction in the world. the reason why there are atheist today is because of the free will we have as humans to have to deny God (which isnt right to do; deny your creator). Angles were given a will but if they went against it; they fall. which is Satan. God created Lucifer....satan IS the fall.
@MrLovejoy91 When God created Satan, Satan was one of his angels. But then, Satan rebelled against God, along with one third of the other angels. God then sent Satan and his demons to a place known as Hell, which is eternal seperation from God. Hell wasn't created for people, but for Satan. Unfortunately, when people die in their unrepentance, they must go to Hell also. Because sin can't enter into Heaven, or it would be just as bad as Earth.
@SuperJuliusC I am an American Christian, and I do have knowledge of Christianity. And the stuff you wrote about purgatory and all that, is not in the Bible. Purgatory isn't what washes our sins away, it's the blood of Jesus that does that.
@MissLeanaFaith I agree that the purgatory is based on roman-catholic dogmatic!
But in terms of "Hell" all bible translations are debatable - For example: The guy who originally translated the bible for common men (Martin Luther) translated the term "Hades" about five times with "Hell"!
Well as you might know has the "Hades" nothing to do with today`s christian association of "Hell" - That`s a problem!
So we really do not know what the bible tells us about "Hell"!
@Jenmickle35 You said he could not fail, I gave you an example of him failing. And so he didn't have to admit to failure he made a ridiculous contract where he sacrificed himself to himself to make up for his creation failing. It is a bad plot line and I don't think it would make a good film.
@Jenmickle35 God can't fail? I am sure that there was a long term project he was working on and it went downhill so he had to drown all the 'atrocities'. What was that called again? Um, oh yeah, humanity. God murdered many innocent people in the bible, is this not sin?
It's funny to see the atheists get angry whenever the Christians speak. It's shows what's influencing them to respond that way,LOL. Lost souls both of them.
God gave free will to do what you want to do. So evil comes from the will to do something that hurts others, Sin, Evil.... What is evil? The acts which violates one right to life, liberty and happiness. which means humans have a right to exit, to keep its life going and to pursue self governance. A standard of Good and evil must exit. So who is the standard giver??
same old argument about light and darkness please no more of such arguments sound like a broken record to the point is there evidence besides what the bible said and what you believe about god and please no philosophical evidence or arguments i mean real evidence
I think the main problem in this particular question is that it wrongly supposes that evil exists of itself. It really is not like the absence of light being darkness.
The evil actually has to be perptrated.
A person can't point to the air and say, "HERE IS EVIL."
A person with a sense of right and wrong actually has to DO SOMETHING EVIL.
If a god flooded a whole planet to kill everything upon it including babies and children, wouldn't that be considered an evil deed? Wouldn't that make that god evil?
if I was to go back in time and make the first book with the most sensational stories of all time and base it on nothing except belief, I would create god and any prophet i choose. I would convince a few simple minded people of my sensational stories and have them repeat the stories and also copy my book and pass it to a friend. From there it spreads and you start to create "common knowledge". At least common knowledge for those that read and believe it.
Incoherent gobbly gook. It's astounding how people can deceive themselves into thinking there's a god, then try to convince others with their circular reasoning all based on a ridiculous assumption.
@montrealwatcher true. It seems like religion nowadays is more of something for the unintelligent to fill a void of the unknown. Atheist says "Knowbody REALLY knows EXACTLY how the universe was created, It's all speculation or theory". religious person says "you dont know? HA I know exactly how it was created! I Beat you!" Its also for people who fear death witch is unavoidable. Kirk says everyone fears death. no not really, usually only greedy people fear death, the rest roll with the punches
"Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; YET THOU ART A MAN [adam], and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:" The word "a" where it says, "...yet thou art A man..." is not in the original text so it really says, "YET THOU ART MAN [ADAM]".
@ MayonR, so "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace..." don't ring any bells. I agree that it can be interpreted symbolically but it can also be used as a reference to natural creation, after all the light was formed, darkness was created and God does make peace.
@ MayonR, Calamity = An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster...so this is not EVIL. Thanks anyway, blessings
Another thing I just want to point out is that because we have been so heavily indoctrinated with false doctrines these doctrines have become our "safety lines", and we have become too afraid to believe anything else because this is what we've always been taught, there is nothing else to believe and it is what almost everyone else believes, so we assume that there is safety in numbers whilst thinking all of these people cannot be wrong. YES THEY CAN, as history shows.
I think people are blinded in reading Isaiah 45:7 because of what they've been indoctrinated with, if it doesn't fit their belief system then the scripture doesn't mean what it says, like God needs us to interpret for Him what He said. To me this is plain, HE CREATED EVIL, end of story! Yes there are scriptures that aren't as plain & we are in need of revelation & illumination of them to help us understand, but this is absolutely clear, no need to further expound on this in relation to the topic
Good and evil, ergo Morals< are relative. No two people believe exactly the same thing in terms of what is good and what is not. And don't bring up molestation of children.That's a common one used on me with this argument. I personally believe that child molestation is wrong... however, a Paedophile obviously doesn't. Therefore, the morality of it is still relative.
NO, NO, NO, if you remove good you get neutrality. Someone solely without good is just a neutral robotic like person. He will not do good nor evil. Evil is not the absence of good, evil is its own thing.
Murdering, raping, stealing, genocide, conquest, would you consider these things the absence of good?
The KCA proves that if the universe had a beginning (which is what modern cosmology tells us), then the only thing that can explain its beginning just happens to have the same attributes of the standard definition of God. Thats all the "proof" i need right there
What's disturbing here is how Ray and Kirk arranged this "debate" by tempting people with lies. It was claimed, in advance, that they could prove the existence of god without faith, and without reliance on the bible.
"Evil is the absense of good". So... if you have a room with a chair, a desk, and Santa Clause... then once Santa walks out you have an evil room filled with an infernal chair and a blaspheming table?
There ws life on earth before adam and eve for the earth was created perfect and then became a waste/void/desolation because of Lucifer. And the almighty destroyed all life on the planet and started again. The gap period between genisis 1:1 and 1:2. Kirk is on the right track, there truely is more then meets the eye.
In Heaven there was the Angels. Lucifer was the most high angel in heaven. Lucifer became wicked and evil through his pride....IN HEAVEN. And because of Lucifer`s evil, he was rejected and thrown out of heaven and fell to the earth in the begining before adam and eve was created. What blows me away is that IN HEAVEN evil entered into Lucifer, in Heaven. And then was cast out. My question is how did God allow evil to enter Heaven into Lucifer, if Heaven is supposed to be all light, no evil.
Ray has been well trained in debate tactics. Notice how he starts every response with, "That's a great question," often adding, "I'm glad you asked it." It's a way to soothe the listener to open them up for manipulation. And emphatic speaking often indicates an underlying falsity.
EVIL precedes SIN, God created EVIL BEFORE the act of SIN was committed, God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL BEFORE Adam partook of it. EVIL is the root of SIN and SIN is the FRUIT of EVIL.
I just noticed that you said God created the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. (emphasis mine).
See: wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil **(particularly the meaning, Translation Issues segment, and In Judaism segment)
Adam sinned when he ate it. But the knowledge of evil doesn't necessarily mean that one sins, & just because God made that tree doesn't mean that God made sin... It is when Adam ate it that sin entered, because he disobeyed God. Right?
4.A) WE ARE [Read Revelation 4 & 5 [esp v9-10] *Read these verses carefully and you will see that the 4 Beasts and the 24 Elders ARE YOU & ME, we sing the song of the redeemed, angels don't need to be redeemed by the blood, WE DO, JESUS DIED FOR US not anyone or anything else.
The name "Lucifer" is only found once in our English bibles and only in the King James Version, it's a latin word that means "Venus", which is derived from "lux" = "light" and "ferre" = "to bear" i.e "light-bearer". St Jerome in the 4th century used it to translate the Hebrew word "heylel" into the Latin Vulgate Version. "Heylel" means "Morning Star", he, ADAM, was the original Morning Star [1st Adam], but he fell - i.e. falling star - and now Jesus is the BRIGHT MORNING STAR [Last Adam].
Ooooohhh... I checked the Lucifer thing out.. and this is what i found...
See commentaries: bible(dot)cc/isaiah/14-12.htm
It actually supports what you're saying about the Venus stuff...
Although, even if (let's say) that Satan and Lucifer aren't the same, how did you conclude that God made evil and sin was the fruit of evil... (More particularly the "sin is the fruit of evil part") :?
Thanks for your time primagaloriah, I appreciate the conversation and would like to continue, if you like you can add me on facebook and we can continue from there, blessings
Ezekiel 28:13 describes the scene of the crime, the garden of Eden, there were only 3 possible candidates for the anointed covering Cherub position, it definately wasn't Eve and it could not have been the serpent because the Cherubim are MANKIND [kindred, tongue, people and nation], so that leaves only one candidate left, ADAM.
v9 "And THEY [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed US [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"
v10 "And hast made US [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] unto OUR God KINGS and PRIESTS: and WE [the Cherubim and 24 Elders still singing the same song] shall reign on the earth."
So both Lucifer and the King of Tyrus are MEN, I believe both of them to be the same person which is ADAM. It says futher in Eze 28:14 that Adam is an anointed Cherub that covers, if you read Revelation 4 & 5 especially in ch5 v9-10 you will see the Cherubim and the 24 Elders sing the song of the redeemed. I'll copy the verse out in the next post so you can see it.
See Rev 5:8.. It says the four living creatures and the elders.
See Ez 1:5-28.. It talks about the four living creatures.
How about Satan/devils possessing/entering people (Mark 5:1-9) and swines as well (Mark 5:10-12)
See bible(dot)cc/mark/5-12.htm <- Particularly Gill's Exposition
I'm sorry if I'm only sending links and Bible references... They're too long to put here.. But I hope that you'll read them though/have time to read them..
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speak of a MAN not satan, Isa 14:16 says, "...is this the MAN [iysh] that made the earth to tremble..." and Eze 28:2 says, "...I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas, yet thou art a MAN [adam]..." v9 says, "...but thou a MAN [adam], and no God..."
Lucifer is a MAN, "iysh" which is one of the two main words used for MAN in the Hebrew, the other word for MAN is found in Eze 28:2 & 9 and used for the King of Tyrus which is "adam".
In gty(dot)org/files/pdf/StandingStrong_Sample.pdf it says:
"That passage (Ezekiel 28:12-18) speaks of a being so complete that he possessed the seal of perfection. It cannot be referring to a mere human being.
Furthermore, in verse 13, the writer said this sublime creature was “in Eden, the Garden of God”.
Clearly, this prophecy is an indirect reference to Satan, the Serpent – the adversary who was in the garden of Eden."
Those sites (as well as the one that supports your claim) really present a pretty compelling argument.. Although the truth to this matter I have to find out.
I'll try to update you when I do find something... If you want... :)
The scriptures you've mentioned are the normal scriptures that are used to back the whole lucifer falling from heaven theory etc etc, I used to believe this all my life until Isaiah 45:7 rocked my theology.
Hey thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it. I've been in discussions before about this and you are saying exactly what they've said using all the same scriptures, the sad thing is that each time I had to stop because of contention over the topic. So I thank you for still wanting to converse with me without any contention, blessings
Another thing is, satan was MADE [to DO, fashion, accomplish, produce] by God in Genesis 3:1,
"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had MADE..."
The word "made" [Hb: asah] is best translated as "do" [verb], it describes the function and purpose of what it was MADE or designed TO DO. Eg, Psalm 104:19:
"He appointed [asah] the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down."
I think one of the theories about the origins of evil was that satan [supposedly lucifer] was jealous of Adam and that is why he rebelled. My question is if satan was the head worship leader in heaven [Throne Room] before God created everything else then why would he get jealous and rebel over someone [Adam] that wasn't even created yet, doesn't make sense.
I searched about it and this is also what they said about Lucifer… I was wondering why it was addressed to the king of Tyrus though, and this is what I found…
“Thou
Here (Ezek 28:12-15), as in Isa 14:12 the language goes beyond the king of Tyre to Satan, inspirer and unseen ruler of all such pomp and pride as that of Tyre. Instances of thus indirectly addressing Satan are: Gen 3:14,15 Mt 16:23. (Con't 1)
...The unfallen state of Satan is here described; his fall in Isa 14:12-14. See Scofield Note: "Rev 20:10". But there is more. The vision is not of Satan in his own person, but of Satan fulfilling himself in and through an earthly king who arrogates to himself divine honours, Song that the prince of Tyrus foreshadows the Beast. Dan 7:8 Rev 19:20.” (Con't 2)
“isaiah 14:12-15 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Thank you for your response. Evil is NOT the fruit of sin, evil existed before sin came, sin is the fruit of evil. God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL BEFORE, I repeat BEFORE the origins of sin. There is no room in between Genesis 1:1 ["In the beginning God created..."] and Genesis 2:2 ["And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made and He rested..."] for a rebellion in the heaven to explain the origins of evil.
Yes, evil meaning sufferings, affliction, etc… “not moral evil (Jas 1:13), but in contrast to "peace" in the parallel clause, war, disaster (compare Ps 65:7; Am 3:6).”
Which is the fruits of sin meaning 'this is what you’re going to get (consequence) when you sin' sort of thing… like Rom 6:23 - for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Interesting verse... I searched it and this is what I found about it.
CREATE EVIL
Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.
Reference: Scoffield's reference notes from bible(dot)cc
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] [a]evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
Footnotes: 1. Isaiah 45:7 Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God."
God can "create" physical evil, yeah by removing himself- just like Ray said- the absence of light is darkness- the absence of God (good) is evil.
@Knoxvicious, because it says, "...I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS!" Read from verse one onwards and I'm sure you will agree that it is God that is speaking.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
By the way, LUCIFER - an incorrect interpretation of the original Hebrew word - is NOT refering to satan, it says "HEYLEL" - which is Hebrew for "Morning Star" - is a MAN [Hebrew: "iysh"], satan is a SPIRIT not a MAN [Eph 2:2].
@Knoxvicious, "Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? BUT THOU SHALT BE (A) MAN, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee." [Eze 28:9] Blessings
@ryangranucci, the scripture is balanced defining both concrete and abstract ideas. By using both LIGHT and DARKNESS God is making a comparison between both ends of the natural creation spectrum. Likewise God draws a comparison between both ends of the moral creation spectrum, evil is a moral thing, just as God created peace, love, good etc so too He created evil. So just as God created the natural, material and physical things so too did He create the spiritual, emotional and moral things.
@joshua120775 If you get the chance I would just suggest looking at some different ways of translating that verse, and check out how many times that evil is used to describe judgement as well. Also " if " you don't adhere to the Bible as truth [that is for you to determine] , I wouldn't bother quoting it.
@ryangranucci, I have looked at many different translations and have done in depth studies on this particular topic and my heart witnesses the Truth. I don't believe anymore in the fables we have been taught about the origins of evil, i.e. rebellious angel. I would love to chat more with you about this, but please don't feel like you have to SAVE ME, a majority concensus on a paticular topic does not count as authority in God's eyes, in fact in God it is the opposite, blessings
I love how, the Christians show some proof, for example "the Bible mentioned the Earth is round at a time when people thought i was flat" and the Atheist response is "you're stupid!"
What everyone needs to do is each build themselves up into individual "intellectual walls" and declare themselves "Superior"
"We don't need any gods, we make ourselves intellectual supermen!"
@bret2359 The law of conservation of mass, also known as principle of mass/matter conservation is that the mass of a closed system (in the sense of a completely isolated system) will remain constant over time. The mass of an isolated system cannot be changed as a result of processes acting inside the system. A similar statement is that mass cannot be created/destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, and changed into different types of particles.
@bret2359 What do you base that on? If you have no basis to prove something you believe you are delusional. God's existence is proved through more than you know. Creation is proof of Creator.
@IgniteDanny No! Standard misstake, made out of ignorance.
The existens of the world doesnt prove any "Creator". It could possible "BE" somesort of a creative force behind it, but there are no proof for it. Thats just a lame "Gap-fill" argument / statement.
Actually, I dont think there are any proof of a "Creation" at all. The world (universe) could have been existing for eternaty, and if so, it was never created at all.
@jadeLoTuZ We know the properties of space and this physical world. We know it in itself has no power to create or exist apart from being acted upon by another force(Newton). Any motion(stars exploding, moons orbiting) must've, at one point been set in motion by a Higher Force. The idea of an eternal Universe just professes your ignorance of that which your professing. The Universe, according to it's principles, shouldn't exist. The known eternal features of God is the ONLY plausible explanation
@bond519 Yeah, it's sad. I understand there are a lot of things out there claiming "truth", but one just has to open their heart along with their brain.
when there is good, there will always be evil, when there is love, there will always be hate no matter what, for instance, your going to love something but your also going to dislike (basically hate) something, loving something will always have hate into something, you love something, your going to love it more because of its characteristics than the other one so basically you hate the other one (technically)
I think that the reason that Athiest feel they must prove that God doesn't exist is because deep down they are real insecure in their Godlessness thoughts. If God doesn't exist in their eyes then what are athiest trying to do, save all the christian? Why? If there is no God then is doesn't matter if Christians beleive in God, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. The truth is that there is no such thing as a true Athiest.
@bond519 Did you just copy and paste this to all of these theological debate videos hoping that you'd get a nibble from an Atheist. That's kind of pathetic. And that's not a very educated thing to say about Atheists. Just saying.
@jadeLoTuZ: First of all, save us from what? Like I have said before, If athiest are right and God does not exist then all that will happen is that we will end up just like you. That is it, No better, no worse. By the way If I am right and God does exist, God loves that Mentally insane person and you.
Easy. Save people from insanity, delusion, paranoia, borderline, any mental illness etc, pick your prefered synonym.
And btw, that philosophicall reason "Its better to act IF he exists, you will win on it" is philosophically proven to be wrong. Its called the Pascals Wager. And I even think that it was debunked somewhere in this depate serie. If you missed it, you can try to search for it on the net (more then just on the conservapedia)
@jadeLoTuZ: How about save you from your own stupidity? No matter what you say is fact or preach about your Pascals Wager you are still wrong. So to bad so sad by the time you athiests find you you are wrong it will be too late.
You got to feel sorry for Christians. They wriggle and squirm doing their earnest best to explain their wishful yet fatally flawed thinking. They make outrageous claims based on highly dubious ancient manuscripts which purport the existence of a supernatural creator. They offer no logical proof because, of course, there is none. Supernatural belief is defunct, obsolete, an anachronistic hindrance for humanity. You don't need God to be good!
What about the God of the Old Testament who blew up cities, killed infants, created pestilence and disease, who fucked over Job just for a bet with the devil. Tell me that God is not evil? But if not evil, you must admit that he is at least as human and flawed as wee are. He is NOT perfect and righteous. He's a bully with a stick.
As much as I love Ray, he's completely off with his idea of evil being the absence of Good.
Romans 7 says that "apart from the law of righteousness, there is no sin; no laws to break". Thus without light there is no darkness...for there is no light to which it can compare, and the evil is dead.
Plus, even though we are supposedly saved by Christ, we are STILL equipped with sin. Thus, we are imperfect beings made with darkness and redeemed by light.
How many times do u have to hear to acccept God and stop doing sin. Whoever sins is a slave of sin. Whoever sins is of the devil. so u choose to follow the devil, ure eternal home will b with him and his demons. Just bcuz something was created doesnt mean u have to partake in it. If there is a vile of poisen in front of u, u dont have to drink it. But if u do drink it, something negative might happen. And it wasnt the fault of who made it. U punished your own self by deciding 2 drink it.
God is not puppit master. Humans are the ones who choose to do wrong, choose to do evil. and u send ureself to hell. Many people say , but how would such a loving God send people to a lakeof fire. he doesnt, you with ure actions do. its ure choice
God did not create evil, but God did create the Lucifer which produced the wickedness we have today. And not blaming anything on the devil but it was the serpent that deceived Eve to believe a lie "that she could be as God" and Eve being disobedient, fell into sin and that's how Evil creep into the world.
@ChOiRBoi85 Let's put you in the situation of the people that turned Anne Frank in. What would you do? Would you pray for forgiveness after you lied? Do you actually need to beg for his forgiveness to know that lying is the correct thing to do in this situation? SURELY your god would know that lying is the correct thing to do. But the bible is "God's" word, so I guess you've done something bad, so you MUST repent. LOL.
How about this...I can prove God DOESN'T exist.....Because if it is all powerful..it wouldn't make birth painful...it wouldn't give women periods..it wouldn't allow starvation or disease.......I mean shit..I could've done a better job!
Everyone here should read "If God Why Evil?" by Norman Gysler. The whole book is a response to pretty much what was just asked in this video. READ IT! :)
Singetally 10 hours ago
If God created his creation it be programmed to do as they are told and have no free will -this is not love. For God to love he must give us free will. Adam and Eve were given a choice and chose to ignore God. Each of us has a free will - to accept Christ (God) or reject him. So when people choose to not have God in this life, they exist without him after death (hell). God does not force himself on anyone. That would not be love. People send themselves to hell.
MrAliyak 2 weeks ago
Why would god create "evil" if he was all good!? Is god Schizophrenic!!?
armelix73 1 month ago in playlist Kirk Cameron & Comfort vs Atheism
@armelix73 Well he is!
He created potentially jealous angels (Lucifer and Co.) - Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins which sends people directly to hell!
So if god created jealousy he also created "pure evil" when he created the "perfect" angels!
So if angels are potentially evil - Why are they god`s "generals" and over all considered to be superior to mankind?!
SuperJuliusC 4 weeks ago
"These people hurt Christianity far more than they're helping to spread it."
What?? Crocoduck is an Ace up the sleeve of every faithful believer out there!
Manahyde 1 month ago
If you remove good then you naturally get evil? Wrong. If you remove good, you remove evil. You can't have one without the other - just like absolutely everything else in nature.
ForTheLoveOfAnimals3 2 months ago
The Way of the Master, this is a fantastic debate. Thank you for sharing!
happyhomemaker1995 3 months ago
wait, if god created darkness and light, what was there before darkness?
soulburn2k5 4 months ago
@soulburn2k5 God spoke light into existence. If you'll recall, he never had to speak the darkness into existence. Darkness is simply the absense of light.
MissLeanaFaith 2 months ago in playlist More videos from thewayofthemaster
@MissLeanaFaith oh right yeah, i must have been absent of a brain when i wrote that :D
soulburn2k5 2 months ago
Why would god created Satan then
MrLovejoy91 5 months ago
@MrLovejoy91 God created Lucifer. he was created to reflect the Lords glory. but like the rest of us, he got full of himself and fell from glory cause he (lucifer) wanted to be praised. God got rid of him. Evil came about. the hatred of God was in satan because he was kicked out of heaven. satan was once an angel, but angels have a will but not the right to make it. if they go against ey have no other redemption, they are now demons. god loved us so much that he gave us a FREE will.
BFFFL16 4 months ago
@BFFFL16 ok that still makes no sense if god is all knowing why would he still create an angel that would rebel and eventually become the devil and if he is so powerful why doesnt he just destroy satan
MrLovejoy91 4 months ago
@MrLovejoy91 FREE WILL God created a free will because he loved us that much. WE CREATE THE SIN which gives they calamity and destruction in the world. the reason why there are atheist today is because of the free will we have as humans to have to deny God (which isnt right to do; deny your creator). Angles were given a will but if they went against it; they fall. which is Satan. God created Lucifer....satan IS the fall.
BFFFL16 4 months ago
@BFFFL16 Ok after that instead of banishing satan and the fallen angels to hell why not just obilerate them kill them make it so they never existed
MrLovejoy91 4 months ago
@MrLovejoy91 When God created Satan, Satan was one of his angels. But then, Satan rebelled against God, along with one third of the other angels. God then sent Satan and his demons to a place known as Hell, which is eternal seperation from God. Hell wasn't created for people, but for Satan. Unfortunately, when people die in their unrepentance, they must go to Hell also. Because sin can't enter into Heaven, or it would be just as bad as Earth.
MissLeanaFaith 2 months ago
@MissLeanaFaith False, false and false... - Sorry!
There are three "instances" - Heaven, purgatory and hell!
Everyone goes to purgatory because it washes away your sins so you are allowed to enter heaven.
To hell you only go if you have committed one of the seven "deadly sins"!
SuperJuliusC 4 weeks ago
@SuperJuliusC Then we're all going to Hell, because everyone has committed lust.
backwoodsninja 3 weeks ago
@MissLeanaFaith American christians have absolutely no knowledge about christianity!
All they know is that "Jesus was a good guy"...
SuperJuliusC 4 weeks ago
@SuperJuliusC I am an American Christian, and I do have knowledge of Christianity. And the stuff you wrote about purgatory and all that, is not in the Bible. Purgatory isn't what washes our sins away, it's the blood of Jesus that does that.
MissLeanaFaith 1 week ago
@MissLeanaFaith I agree that the purgatory is based on roman-catholic dogmatic!
But in terms of "Hell" all bible translations are debatable - For example: The guy who originally translated the bible for common men (Martin Luther) translated the term "Hades" about five times with "Hell"!
Well as you might know has the "Hades" nothing to do with today`s christian association of "Hell" - That`s a problem!
So we really do not know what the bible tells us about "Hell"!
SuperJuliusC 1 week ago
@SuperJuliusC We know that the Bible tells us it's eternal seperation from God, and it's a lake of fire.
MissLeanaFaith 1 week ago
@Jenmickle35 You said he could not fail, I gave you an example of him failing. And so he didn't have to admit to failure he made a ridiculous contract where he sacrificed himself to himself to make up for his creation failing. It is a bad plot line and I don't think it would make a good film.
Jed0fSpades 5 months ago
@Jenmickle35 God can't fail? I am sure that there was a long term project he was working on and it went downhill so he had to drown all the 'atrocities'. What was that called again? Um, oh yeah, humanity. God murdered many innocent people in the bible, is this not sin?
Jed0fSpades 5 months ago
stick with Kent Hovind & William Lane Craig
zzzzzzzz0zzzzzzzz 7 months ago
@zzzzzzzz0zzzzzzzz Kent is indeed the man! I would double dog dare the redhead and the other dude to go against Kent by himself. They'd be destroyed.
Crackmandan 6 months ago
@Crackmandan lol Amen!
zzzzzzzz0zzzzzzzz 6 months ago
Great answers to tough questions. With out the Holy Spirit they just wont understand. Its' only foolish words to them :(
HITIDES1 7 months ago 3
I WANT THE CROCODUCK ARGUEMENT!!!! I love that one
joctheviper1 7 months ago
It's funny to see the atheists get angry whenever the Christians speak. It's shows what's influencing them to respond that way,LOL. Lost souls both of them.
Archer720 7 months ago
@Archer720 They don't get angry, they get frustrated by the insane stupidity of Cameron and the banana man.
Kiros37100 7 months ago 14
God gave free will to do what you want to do. So evil comes from the will to do something that hurts others, Sin, Evil.... What is evil? The acts which violates one right to life, liberty and happiness. which means humans have a right to exit, to keep its life going and to pursue self governance. A standard of Good and evil must exit. So who is the standard giver??
MRGV7373 8 months ago
Zoroaster was the origin of god and evil, light and darkness.
Later on the Mithras cult...
thwoolfe 8 months ago
good and evil don't exist, people and their actions are the sum of the circumstances they have existed in.
Christians: do you honestly think that had you been born Hitler and lived his life, you wouldn't have carried out genocide?
PureRockenEuzo 8 months ago
if i were in this audience i'd be laughing every time these two morons talk. laughing loud and clear and encouraging others to laugh with me.
SezSays 8 months ago
same old argument about light and darkness please no more of such arguments sound like a broken record to the point is there evidence besides what the bible said and what you believe about god and please no philosophical evidence or arguments i mean real evidence
legolasgreenleaff 9 months ago
hahahaha darkness is the absence of light ahhaha...
Orical001 9 months ago
It is a wonder that seemingly intelligent people can believe this fantasy.
JohnnyHolmes100 9 months ago
I think the main problem in this particular question is that it wrongly supposes that evil exists of itself. It really is not like the absence of light being darkness.
The evil actually has to be perptrated.
A person can't point to the air and say, "HERE IS EVIL."
A person with a sense of right and wrong actually has to DO SOMETHING EVIL.
ryangranucci 9 months ago
If a god flooded a whole planet to kill everything upon it including babies and children, wouldn't that be considered an evil deed? Wouldn't that make that god evil?
john17972 10 months ago
if I was to go back in time and make the first book with the most sensational stories of all time and base it on nothing except belief, I would create god and any prophet i choose. I would convince a few simple minded people of my sensational stories and have them repeat the stories and also copy my book and pass it to a friend. From there it spreads and you start to create "common knowledge". At least common knowledge for those that read and believe it.
Duppa81 10 months ago
god didnt create dark it was already dark he said let there be light
terry4144 10 months ago
evil is NOT the absence of good just like hate is NOT the absence of love...
Actions are evil and the opposite of good is BAD.
Mladiatheist 10 months ago
Incoherent gobbly gook. It's astounding how people can deceive themselves into thinking there's a god, then try to convince others with their circular reasoning all based on a ridiculous assumption.
sandorski55 10 months ago
Um darkness was created by the moon showing up every now and then....
mmmikeyxx 11 months ago
There is an intellectual who has studied and even taught evolution for years.
He eventualy came to see the flaws and gives evidence why.
watch this you tube clip
Dr Grady Mcmurtry Evolution no Evidence part 1
ogiaag5m 11 months ago
Ray - God created Free Will because He is Love and Love does not command to be Loved. This is they there is Evil.
bccogs 11 months ago
Ray - God created Free Will because He is Love and Love does not command to be Loved.
bccogs 11 months ago
@montrealwatcher true. It seems like religion nowadays is more of something for the unintelligent to fill a void of the unknown. Atheist says "Knowbody REALLY knows EXACTLY how the universe was created, It's all speculation or theory". religious person says "you dont know? HA I know exactly how it was created! I Beat you!" Its also for people who fear death witch is unavoidable. Kirk says everyone fears death. no not really, usually only greedy people fear death, the rest roll with the punches
lastmondaypast1 11 months ago
"Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; YET THOU ART A MAN [adam], and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:" The word "a" where it says, "...yet thou art A man..." is not in the original text so it really says, "YET THOU ART MAN [ADAM]".
joshua120775 11 months ago
Do people actually believe what these guys are saying?
lilsm555 11 months ago
Wait god created us to do what we wait then he punishes people for doing just that, this religion gets worst every day.
purepwn01 11 months ago
@ MayonR, so "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace..." don't ring any bells. I agree that it can be interpreted symbolically but it can also be used as a reference to natural creation, after all the light was formed, darkness was created and God does make peace.
joshua120775 11 months ago
@ MayonR, Calamity = An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster...so this is not EVIL. Thanks anyway, blessings
joshua120775 11 months ago
pretty bitter and ignorant athiests, but im an atheist regardless of how mean these dudes are.
lastmondaypast1 11 months ago
Another thing I just want to point out is that because we have been so heavily indoctrinated with false doctrines these doctrines have become our "safety lines", and we have become too afraid to believe anything else because this is what we've always been taught, there is nothing else to believe and it is what almost everyone else believes, so we assume that there is safety in numbers whilst thinking all of these people cannot be wrong. YES THEY CAN, as history shows.
joshua120775 1 year ago
I think people are blinded in reading Isaiah 45:7 because of what they've been indoctrinated with, if it doesn't fit their belief system then the scripture doesn't mean what it says, like God needs us to interpret for Him what He said. To me this is plain, HE CREATED EVIL, end of story! Yes there are scriptures that aren't as plain & we are in need of revelation & illumination of them to help us understand, but this is absolutely clear, no need to further expound on this in relation to the topic
joshua120775 1 year ago
Good and evil, ergo Morals< are relative. No two people believe exactly the same thing in terms of what is good and what is not. And don't bring up molestation of children.That's a common one used on me with this argument. I personally believe that child molestation is wrong... however, a Paedophile obviously doesn't. Therefore, the morality of it is still relative.
MajorLogica 1 year ago
This can't actually be Kirk and Ray's channel.
These videos show them getting totally spanked.
I'm on to you, faker!
Gooberlicious54 1 year ago
These people hurt Christianity far more than they're helping to spread it. "God exists because he exists".
It's ok that youbelieve, but don't try to explain it in a language and way of thinking that you clearly have no idea how works.
Izdigger5 1 year ago 21
@Izdigger5 wait are you and athiest or not?
crazyman2994 2 months ago
@crazyman2994
Afraid I am.
Izdigger5 2 months ago
NO, NO, NO, if you remove good you get neutrality. Someone solely without good is just a neutral robotic like person. He will not do good nor evil. Evil is not the absence of good, evil is its own thing.
Murdering, raping, stealing, genocide, conquest, would you consider these things the absence of good?
xenomann442 1 year ago 2
@richstpete
Brian and Kelly are total arrogant assholes
Buggz21 1 year ago
@Buggz21 Yeah ok buggzzz.. Prove your god exists...... good luck with that one
richstpete 1 year ago
@richstpete
The KCA proves that if the universe had a beginning (which is what modern cosmology tells us), then the only thing that can explain its beginning just happens to have the same attributes of the standard definition of God. Thats all the "proof" i need right there
Buggz21 1 year ago
I love the audience member LOLing at 0:33 !!! XD
SamcasticAtGmail 1 year ago
God is perfect,God is righteous?Ha I'm more moral then your god as is most people and thats a fact just read your bible.
DeluxBagger 1 year ago
The absence of good is not evil! It just means that there is no good.
maskofsan1ty 1 year ago
What's disturbing here is how Ray and Kirk arranged this "debate" by tempting people with lies. It was claimed, in advance, that they could prove the existence of god without faith, and without reliance on the bible.
That's called.... a LIE.
pburto 1 year ago
"Evil is the absense of good". So... if you have a room with a chair, a desk, and Santa Clause... then once Santa walks out you have an evil room filled with an infernal chair and a blaspheming table?
StevenBee2 1 year ago
@StevenBee2 Nah, the chair is good, everyone can enjoy a good sit :P
Sweddude 1 year ago
@richstpete
SO are you, so Am I. Anyone with an opinion is ignorant.
bosco604 1 year ago
@richstpete @joshua120775 I meant to vote up
Gforcer80 1 year ago
There ws life on earth before adam and eve for the earth was created perfect and then became a waste/void/desolation because of Lucifer. And the almighty destroyed all life on the planet and started again. The gap period between genisis 1:1 and 1:2. Kirk is on the right track, there truely is more then meets the eye.
andrewreginaldsanfor 1 year ago
@richstpete well since they are so ignorant lets hear your explanation on the origin of man with factual evidence.
prime440 1 year ago
kirk and his buddy arent giving any facts about anything. theyre just quoting the bible
tha3immortals 1 year ago
In Heaven there was the Angels. Lucifer was the most high angel in heaven. Lucifer became wicked and evil through his pride....IN HEAVEN. And because of Lucifer`s evil, he was rejected and thrown out of heaven and fell to the earth in the begining before adam and eve was created. What blows me away is that IN HEAVEN evil entered into Lucifer, in Heaven. And then was cast out. My question is how did God allow evil to enter Heaven into Lucifer, if Heaven is supposed to be all light, no evil.
andrewreginaldsanfor 1 year ago
how does he know god is a he...
ab330 1 year ago
@ab330 he clearly isn't a he, but we use the pronoun 'he' as a cultural thing instead of the pronoun 'it' because its derogatory. I'm an atheist btw.
howerut 1 year ago
I hate religion
nickiownu 1 year ago
Evil is a choice you have. It's a test to prove where you stand with God.
YesxusFreak 1 year ago
@YesxusFreak There is no good or evil, just Power................Star Wars
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz exactly
Freethinker12341 1 year ago
Ray has been well trained in debate tactics. Notice how he starts every response with, "That's a great question," often adding, "I'm glad you asked it." It's a way to soothe the listener to open them up for manipulation. And emphatic speaking often indicates an underlying falsity.
Ematched 1 year ago
heck, God created plants and tree's before he created the Sun lol.
Dogmeat1950 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
EVIL precedes SIN, God created EVIL BEFORE the act of SIN was committed, God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL BEFORE Adam partook of it. EVIL is the root of SIN and SIN is the FRUIT of EVIL.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
I just noticed that you said God created the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil. (emphasis mine).
See: wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil **(particularly the meaning, Translation Issues segment, and In Judaism segment)
Adam sinned when he ate it. But the knowledge of evil doesn't necessarily mean that one sins, & just because God made that tree doesn't mean that God made sin... It is when Adam ate it that sin entered, because he disobeyed God. Right?
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
4.Q) Who are the Cherubim now?
4.A) WE ARE [Read Revelation 4 & 5 [esp v9-10] *Read these verses carefully and you will see that the 4 Beasts and the 24 Elders ARE YOU & ME, we sing the song of the redeemed, angels don't need to be redeemed by the blood, WE DO, JESUS DIED FOR US not anyone or anything else.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
4. I read the rest of the chapter in Rev.5:
V8: Four living creature and 24 elders
V11: many, many angels; all angels
V12: every creature in heaven, earth, under the earth, sea. and the four living creatures and elders closed the song.
Could we be a part of verse 12 and not verse 8??
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Read the article and it still doesn't answer what I've presented.
1.Q) Did God create EVIL?
1.A) Isaiah 45:7 answers this, YES HE DID
2.Q) Is satan the serpent or a spirit possessing the serpent or both?
2.A) I think he possessed an entity and spoke through it, satan is a spirit [Eph 2:2]
3.Q) Who was the anointed Cherubim that covers?
3.A) Adam a MAN not a spirit being
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Thank you for your time...
Concerning:
1. Evil, sin, you mean?
But the context was talking about sufferings, sorrow, etc. As contrast with to peace (mentioned in the same verse).
2. Yes...
3. What about Ezekiel 1:5-14?? It describes a different kind of creature/being...
primagaloriah 1 year ago
The name "Lucifer" is only found once in our English bibles and only in the King James Version, it's a latin word that means "Venus", which is derived from "lux" = "light" and "ferre" = "to bear" i.e "light-bearer". St Jerome in the 4th century used it to translate the Hebrew word "heylel" into the Latin Vulgate Version. "Heylel" means "Morning Star", he, ADAM, was the original Morning Star [1st Adam], but he fell - i.e. falling star - and now Jesus is the BRIGHT MORNING STAR [Last Adam].
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Ooooohhh... I checked the Lucifer thing out.. and this is what i found...
See commentaries: bible(dot)cc/isaiah/14-12.htm
It actually supports what you're saying about the Venus stuff...
Although, even if (let's say) that Satan and Lucifer aren't the same, how did you conclude that God made evil and sin was the fruit of evil... (More particularly the "sin is the fruit of evil part") :?
primagaloriah 1 year ago
Comment removed
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Thanks for your time primagaloriah, I appreciate the conversation and would like to continue, if you like you can add me on facebook and we can continue from there, blessings
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Ezekiel 28:13 describes the scene of the crime, the garden of Eden, there were only 3 possible candidates for the anointed covering Cherub position, it definately wasn't Eve and it could not have been the serpent because the Cherubim are MANKIND [kindred, tongue, people and nation], so that leaves only one candidate left, ADAM.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
So who was the anointed Cherub in Eze 28, ADAM was, so who are the CHERUBIM now, WE ARE!!!
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Revelation 5:9-10
v9 "And THEY [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed US [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"
v10 "And hast made US [the Cherubim and 24 Elders] unto OUR God KINGS and PRIESTS: and WE [the Cherubim and 24 Elders still singing the same song] shall reign on the earth."
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
So both Lucifer and the King of Tyrus are MEN, I believe both of them to be the same person which is ADAM. It says futher in Eze 28:14 that Adam is an anointed Cherub that covers, if you read Revelation 4 & 5 especially in ch5 v9-10 you will see the Cherubim and the 24 Elders sing the song of the redeemed. I'll copy the verse out in the next post so you can see it.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Concerning Ez. 28 and Rev. 5:9-10:
See Rev 5:8.. It says the four living creatures and the elders.
See Ez 1:5-28.. It talks about the four living creatures.
How about Satan/devils possessing/entering people (Mark 5:1-9) and swines as well (Mark 5:10-12)
See bible(dot)cc/mark/5-12.htm <- Particularly Gill's Exposition
I'm sorry if I'm only sending links and Bible references... They're too long to put here.. But I hope that you'll read them though/have time to read them..
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speak of a MAN not satan, Isa 14:16 says, "...is this the MAN [iysh] that made the earth to tremble..." and Eze 28:2 says, "...I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas, yet thou art a MAN [adam]..." v9 says, "...but thou a MAN [adam], and no God..."
Lucifer is a MAN, "iysh" which is one of the two main words used for MAN in the Hebrew, the other word for MAN is found in Eze 28:2 & 9 and used for the King of Tyrus which is "adam".
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Aww... Thank you! I'm sorry if you had to go through this topic again..
And I don't really want to argue here, because I just want to know the truth. So, I really thank God that we agree on that!!
Concerning Isa. and Ez.:
But what about my (cont 1) and (Cont 2) reply?
It sort of still explains this.
I searched about it more, and this is what I found:
gty(dot)org/files/pdf/StandingStrong_Sample.pdf
gty(dot)org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/1354_Satan-Is-He-Who-Is-He?
(Cont 3-1)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@joshua120775
(Cont 3-1)
This one actually supports your claim:
unsearchableriches(dot)blogspot(dot)com/2008/02/does-isaiah-1412-refer-to-satan.html
In gty(dot)org/files/pdf/StandingStrong_Sample.pdf it says:
"That passage (Ezekiel 28:12-18) speaks of a being so complete that he possessed the seal of perfection. It cannot be referring to a mere human being.
Furthermore, in verse 13, the writer said this sublime creature was “in Eden, the Garden of God”.
(Cont 3-2)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775
(Cont 3-2)
Clearly, this prophecy is an indirect reference to Satan, the Serpent – the adversary who was in the garden of Eden."
Those sites (as well as the one that supports your claim) really present a pretty compelling argument.. Although the truth to this matter I have to find out.
I'll try to update you when I do find something... If you want... :)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
The scriptures you've mentioned are the normal scriptures that are used to back the whole lucifer falling from heaven theory etc etc, I used to believe this all my life until Isaiah 45:7 rocked my theology.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Hey thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it. I've been in discussions before about this and you are saying exactly what they've said using all the same scriptures, the sad thing is that each time I had to stop because of contention over the topic. So I thank you for still wanting to converse with me without any contention, blessings
joshua120775 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Another thing is, satan was MADE [to DO, fashion, accomplish, produce] by God in Genesis 3:1,
"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had MADE..."
The word "made" [Hb: asah] is best translated as "do" [verb], it describes the function and purpose of what it was MADE or designed TO DO. Eg, Psalm 104:19:
"He appointed [asah] the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down."
The serpent was "made" TO DO a specific thing.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
With regards to Genesis 3:
I urge you to read the article from here:
answersingenesis(dot)org/articles/2010/02/09/satan-the-fall-good-evil-wasnt-satan-the-serpent
(Con't 2-1)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775
(Con't 2-2)
God made the serpent more subtle(not necessarily Satan) even if God did created Satan to be subtle it doesn't mean that God made him sin.
"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I'm being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. -Jam1:13"
See Mt 10:16 "..be ye therefore wise as serpents, & harmless as doves."
Jesus didn't mean that we're to make people sin with wisdom/subtlety.
This is really interesting. I've learned a lot!
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
I think one of the theories about the origins of evil was that satan [supposedly lucifer] was jealous of Adam and that is why he rebelled. My question is if satan was the head worship leader in heaven [Throne Room] before God created everything else then why would he get jealous and rebel over someone [Adam] that wasn't even created yet, doesn't make sense.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775 “See Ezekiel 28:12-15 (It's too long to put here...)"
I searched about it and this is also what they said about Lucifer… I was wondering why it was addressed to the king of Tyrus though, and this is what I found…
“Thou
Here (Ezek 28:12-15), as in Isa 14:12 the language goes beyond the king of Tyre to Satan, inspirer and unseen ruler of all such pomp and pride as that of Tyre. Instances of thus indirectly addressing Satan are: Gen 3:14,15 Mt 16:23. (Con't 1)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775
(con't 1)
...The unfallen state of Satan is here described; his fall in Isa 14:12-14. See Scofield Note: "Rev 20:10". But there is more. The vision is not of Satan in his own person, but of Satan fulfilling himself in and through an earthly king who arrogates to himself divine honours, Song that the prince of Tyrus foreshadows the Beast. Dan 7:8 Rev 19:20.” (Con't 2)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775
(Con't 2)
“isaiah 14:12-15 12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
(Con't 3)
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775
(Con't 3)
...14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”
“ The first time we find angels mentioned in Scripture does not necessarily indicate their first arrival on the scene.”
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@primagaloriah
Thank you for your response. Evil is NOT the fruit of sin, evil existed before sin came, sin is the fruit of evil. God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and EVIL BEFORE, I repeat BEFORE the origins of sin. There is no room in between Genesis 1:1 ["In the beginning God created..."] and Genesis 2:2 ["And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made and He rested..."] for a rebellion in the heaven to explain the origins of evil.
joshua120775 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Thank you too.. :)
Yes, evil meaning sufferings, affliction, etc… “not moral evil (Jas 1:13), but in contrast to "peace" in the parallel clause, war, disaster (compare Ps 65:7; Am 3:6).”
Which is the fruits of sin meaning 'this is what you’re going to get (consequence) when you sin' sort of thing… like Rom 6:23 - for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
primagaloriah 1 year ago
GOD CREATED EVIL!!!
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
joshua120775 1 year ago 24
@joshua120775 May the sauce be with you.
DuykRuyk 1 year ago
@joshua120775
Interesting verse... I searched it and this is what I found about it.
CREATE EVIL
Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.
Reference: Scoffield's reference notes from bible(dot)cc
check also: gotquestions(dot)org/Isaiah-45-7(dot)html
primagaloriah 1 year ago
@joshua120775 ''I form the light'' When did God make the other force carring Bosons?
gregrutz 1 year ago
@joshua120775 I meant to vote up
Gforcer80 1 year ago
@joshua120775 @richstpete
"Isaiah 45:7 (Amplified Bible)
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] [a]evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
Footnotes: 1. Isaiah 45:7 Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God."
God can "create" physical evil, yeah by removing himself- just like Ray said- the absence of light is darkness- the absence of God (good) is evil.
michelaspage 1 year ago
@joshua120775 its sad that so called "rational" people cant figure out what a simple verse actually means and also take it out of context
JPBuysjr 1 year ago
@joshua120775 Um in it's verbial context it is not speaking of moral evil but of calamity.
MayonR 11 months ago
@joshua120775
How do you know they're talking about God? Couldn't he have also been Lucifer, who thought himself SUPERIOR to God?
Knoxvicious 11 months ago
@Knoxvicious, because it says, "...I THE LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS!" Read from verse one onwards and I'm sure you will agree that it is God that is speaking.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
By the way, LUCIFER - an incorrect interpretation of the original Hebrew word - is NOT refering to satan, it says "HEYLEL" - which is Hebrew for "Morning Star" - is a MAN [Hebrew: "iysh"], satan is a SPIRIT not a MAN [Eph 2:2].
joshua120775 11 months ago
@Knoxvicious, "Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? BUT THOU SHALT BE (A) MAN, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee." [Eze 28:9] Blessings
joshua120775 11 months ago
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danthecat21 11 months ago
@joshua120775 MAN CREATED GOD.
danthecat21 11 months ago
@joshua120775
In this context, and use in the Hebrew languange it is more of a reference to disasters, calamities, and trouble rather than moral evil.
That is how the word more likely would have been understood in the 1600s when the KJV was translated.
ryangranucci 10 months ago
@ryangranucci, the scripture is balanced defining both concrete and abstract ideas. By using both LIGHT and DARKNESS God is making a comparison between both ends of the natural creation spectrum. Likewise God draws a comparison between both ends of the moral creation spectrum, evil is a moral thing, just as God created peace, love, good etc so too He created evil. So just as God created the natural, material and physical things so too did He create the spiritual, emotional and moral things.
joshua120775 10 months ago
@joshua120775 If you get the chance I would just suggest looking at some different ways of translating that verse, and check out how many times that evil is used to describe judgement as well. Also " if " you don't adhere to the Bible as truth [that is for you to determine] , I wouldn't bother quoting it.
Thanks...
ryangranucci 9 months ago
@ryangranucci, I have looked at many different translations and have done in depth studies on this particular topic and my heart witnesses the Truth. I don't believe anymore in the fables we have been taught about the origins of evil, i.e. rebellious angel. I would love to chat more with you about this, but please don't feel like you have to SAVE ME, a majority concensus on a paticular topic does not count as authority in God's eyes, in fact in God it is the opposite, blessings
joshua120775 9 months ago
@joshua120775 For context: bit(dot)ly/jgbLxJ
thewayofthemaster 8 months ago
@thewayofthemaster, don't understand your post, please post again. Blessings
joshua120775 8 months ago
@joshua120775 It's a website. Remove the (dot) and replace it with .
thewayofthemaster 8 months ago
I wish tracie harris and matt dillahunty coudve been there.
Master8laster 1 year ago
I love how, the Christians show some proof, for example "the Bible mentioned the Earth is round at a time when people thought i was flat" and the Atheist response is "you're stupid!"
What everyone needs to do is each build themselves up into individual "intellectual walls" and declare themselves "Superior"
"We don't need any gods, we make ourselves intellectual supermen!"
I find that funny
bluesith 1 year ago
do these pplz listen to themselves?
Atheist603 1 year ago
@bret2359 The law of conservation of mass, also known as principle of mass/matter conservation is that the mass of a closed system (in the sense of a completely isolated system) will remain constant over time. The mass of an isolated system cannot be changed as a result of processes acting inside the system. A similar statement is that mass cannot be created/destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, and changed into different types of particles.
IgniteDanny 1 year ago
@bret2359 What do you base that on? If you have no basis to prove something you believe you are delusional. God's existence is proved through more than you know. Creation is proof of Creator.
IgniteDanny 1 year ago
@IgniteDanny No! Standard misstake, made out of ignorance.
The existens of the world doesnt prove any "Creator". It could possible "BE" somesort of a creative force behind it, but there are no proof for it. Thats just a lame "Gap-fill" argument / statement.
Actually, I dont think there are any proof of a "Creation" at all. The world (universe) could have been existing for eternaty, and if so, it was never created at all.
jadeLoTuZ 1 year ago
@jadeLoTuZ We know the properties of space and this physical world. We know it in itself has no power to create or exist apart from being acted upon by another force(Newton). Any motion(stars exploding, moons orbiting) must've, at one point been set in motion by a Higher Force. The idea of an eternal Universe just professes your ignorance of that which your professing. The Universe, according to it's principles, shouldn't exist. The known eternal features of God is the ONLY plausible explanation
IgniteDanny 1 year ago
@IgniteDanny: Well put, But I believe that the Athiests will actually believe that the original start just magically appeared.
bond519 1 year ago
@bond519 Yeah, it's sad. I understand there are a lot of things out there claiming "truth", but one just has to open their heart along with their brain.
IgniteDanny 1 year ago
when there is good, there will always be evil, when there is love, there will always be hate no matter what, for instance, your going to love something but your also going to dislike (basically hate) something, loving something will always have hate into something, you love something, your going to love it more because of its characteristics than the other one so basically you hate the other one (technically)
MrHuge411 1 year ago
I think that the reason that Athiest feel they must prove that God doesn't exist is because deep down they are real insecure in their Godlessness thoughts. If God doesn't exist in their eyes then what are athiest trying to do, save all the christian? Why? If there is no God then is doesn't matter if Christians beleive in God, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. The truth is that there is no such thing as a true Athiest.
bond519 1 year ago
@bond519 Did you just copy and paste this to all of these theological debate videos hoping that you'd get a nibble from an Atheist. That's kind of pathetic. And that's not a very educated thing to say about Atheists. Just saying.
bencamp18 1 year ago
@bencamp18: No. I did it because it is the truth.
bond519 1 year ago
@bond519 Yes, Atheist probably tries to save all the christian (but not just the Christian, all true believing religious people).
I suppose it could be like a Psychiatrist, that tries to heal the mentaly insane!
jadeLoTuZ 1 year ago
@jadeLoTuZ: First of all, save us from what? Like I have said before, If athiest are right and God does not exist then all that will happen is that we will end up just like you. That is it, No better, no worse. By the way If I am right and God does exist, God loves that Mentally insane person and you.
bond519 1 year ago
@bond519 "First of all, save us from what?"
Easy. Save people from insanity, delusion, paranoia, borderline, any mental illness etc, pick your prefered synonym.
And btw, that philosophicall reason "Its better to act IF he exists, you will win on it" is philosophically proven to be wrong. Its called the Pascals Wager. And I even think that it was debunked somewhere in this depate serie. If you missed it, you can try to search for it on the net (more then just on the conservapedia)
jadeLoTuZ 1 year ago
@jadeLoTuZ: How about save you from your own stupidity? No matter what you say is fact or preach about your Pascals Wager you are still wrong. So to bad so sad by the time you athiests find you you are wrong it will be too late.
bond519 1 year ago
Man these stupid questions any smart Christian can answer. Atheists say they read the bible? Yeah what one chapter every month or something.
7TJB7 1 year ago
You got to feel sorry for Christians. They wriggle and squirm doing their earnest best to explain their wishful yet fatally flawed thinking. They make outrageous claims based on highly dubious ancient manuscripts which purport the existence of a supernatural creator. They offer no logical proof because, of course, there is none. Supernatural belief is defunct, obsolete, an anachronistic hindrance for humanity. You don't need God to be good!
ColonelGaypenguin 1 year ago
Christianity has always bothered me.
OhMyGodSushiRoll 1 year ago
@OhMyGodSushiRoll Atheists have always bothered me.
7TJB7 1 year ago
@Maxipad44142 Well fuck is not what people have derogatorily referenced black people as. Im just tryin to keep it real and not offend anyone.
Ineedwords1121 1 year ago
What about the God of the Old Testament who blew up cities, killed infants, created pestilence and disease, who fucked over Job just for a bet with the devil. Tell me that God is not evil? But if not evil, you must admit that he is at least as human and flawed as wee are. He is NOT perfect and righteous. He's a bully with a stick.
aznsteve128 1 year ago
Why is the moderators questions written and cut in and not just played along?
B1aDK 1 year ago
As much as I love Ray, he's completely off with his idea of evil being the absence of Good.
Romans 7 says that "apart from the law of righteousness, there is no sin; no laws to break". Thus without light there is no darkness...for there is no light to which it can compare, and the evil is dead.
Plus, even though we are supposedly saved by Christ, we are STILL equipped with sin. Thus, we are imperfect beings made with darkness and redeemed by light.
The world is black and white.
rockston11 1 year ago
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jerykk1 1 year ago
How many times do u have to hear to acccept God and stop doing sin. Whoever sins is a slave of sin. Whoever sins is of the devil. so u choose to follow the devil, ure eternal home will b with him and his demons. Just bcuz something was created doesnt mean u have to partake in it. If there is a vile of poisen in front of u, u dont have to drink it. But if u do drink it, something negative might happen. And it wasnt the fault of who made it. U punished your own self by deciding 2 drink it.
jamelizr 1 year ago
God is not puppit master. Humans are the ones who choose to do wrong, choose to do evil. and u send ureself to hell. Many people say , but how would such a loving God send people to a lakeof fire. he doesnt, you with ure actions do. its ure choice
jamelizr 1 year ago
God did not create evil, but God did create the Lucifer which produced the wickedness we have today. And not blaming anything on the devil but it was the serpent that deceived Eve to believe a lie "that she could be as God" and Eve being disobedient, fell into sin and that's how Evil creep into the world.
ChOiRBoi85 1 year ago
@ChOiRBoi85 Let's put you in the situation of the people that turned Anne Frank in. What would you do? Would you pray for forgiveness after you lied? Do you actually need to beg for his forgiveness to know that lying is the correct thing to do in this situation? SURELY your god would know that lying is the correct thing to do. But the bible is "God's" word, so I guess you've done something bad, so you MUST repent. LOL.
kehwa 1 year ago
God created Charlie Murphy?
Maxipad44142 1 year ago
@Maxipad44142 Lol yes he did!
Ineedwords1121 1 year ago
@Ineedwords1121 "DARKNESS! DARKNESS EVERYONE! DARKNESS IS SPREADING!"
Maxipad44142 1 year ago
How about this...I can prove God DOESN'T exist.....Because if it is all powerful..it wouldn't make birth painful...it wouldn't give women periods..it wouldn't allow starvation or disease.......I mean shit..I could've done a better job!
blewvelvet 1 year ago