The Bible and DaVinci Code

[doctorh2005]

Good video!

[Blankfrack]

The King James Bible; pieced together from fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls and oral history, passed down through thousands of people. King James 'translated' this information according to HIS beliefs and shaky grasp of the languages they were originally written in. Two thousand years later, people are living their lives based on this shaky info. The American rag "National Enquirer' has more direct and provable text. The DaVinci Code is a work of FICTION based upon SPECULATION.

[newlife8547]

How could the King James Bible be pieced together from fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls when they where just discovered between 1949 and 1979 in the caves of Wadi Qumran and the King James Bible was put together on January 1604, translated from the textus receptus (historical greek texts), Masoretic Hebrew text, and the septuagint. The only thing shaky is your information. Do some real research and stop writting tabloid nonsense.

[newlife8547]

"King James 'translated' this information according to His beliefs"- I like how you just make it up as you go along. King James did'nt translate anything, rather 47 scholars of the church of England did. He gave instructions to allow canonical books which where already substantiated as authoritative, used in other translations and excluded those books that where questionable such as the apocryphal books.

[bigawp]

lol, well that is the annoying style of editing these days. don't like it either

[highwind8124]

Who decided to edit this video in such a way that you have to have a seizure every 5 seconds?

[kev3d]

Once Again, Josh McDowell is ignoring many many facts. How does he explain the gospels of Nicodemus, Judas Iscariot, Mary Magdeline etc. ? How is the "Canon" correct? Further the bible says IT is the ONLY correct path, oddly enough so does the Koran. Both cannot be right.

[mishyprizes]

Even today their are authors trying to cash in on the Bible with their own copyrighted versions.

[mishyprizes]

These "gospels" that you mentioned which werent even gospels at all were written many many years after the true gospels.

[kev3d]

No shit! NO ONE knows what Jesus actually said or if he Really existed! Consider that 2 billion christians all praying cannot come up with an answer acceptable to all. Early christians were just as confused with many different sects, some believing Jesus was fully human and not devine at all.

[mishyprizes]

So what! 2 billion agreeing or disagree will not change anything. Almost 6 billion people agree that starvation is bad. That still doesnt help the situation one iota.

[kev3d]

I gave you two examples, God DOES create evil, for you to point out otherwise displays a huge contradiction, and I also pointed out how the Gospels disagree with each other. The Bible is nothing but silly self contradictory myths. God doesn't answer prayes or he surly would give his "chosen ones" clear direction.

[boomtastic67]

I think your concept of evil is flawed. Evil does not exist, just as cold or darkness does not exist; they are just the absence of the opposite. (darkness is the absence of light...there's no such thing as "darkness") Instead, evil is the absence of good. So God did not create something called evil...evil is just a lack of good.

[kev3d]

That is not what the bible says; it says specifically that god creates evil. Secondly, evil, as it is defined is a proactive approach. A volcano or a baby stepping on an accelerator which may kill people are certainly not good, but they are not evil either. They are just accidents or natural disasters. The Lack of A does not prove the Existence of B, in other words.

[boomtastic67]

Please show me where the Bible says God created evil. "A volcano or a baby stepping on an accelerator which may kill people are certainly not good". Here your using good in the adjective form, yet we are discussing the noun, the idea of GOOD. You still have it wrong.

[kev3d]

Isaiah 45:7, 2 Kings 6:33, Amos 3:6 But Im sure you will try to rationalize that.

"Good" and "Evil" are adjectives, in noun form they only refer to the abstract like "the lesser of two evils" or "the common good". Good and Evil, as we understand them are entirely human concepts. "Good" is something subjective that we as humans generally agree on, so is evil.

[boomtastic67]

Well yes i will "rationalize it". I'll do Isaiah only cause the word limit.(I will do the others if you like) Anyways the verse says "I make...evil" The word "evil" here was translated from the Hebrew word "ra", meaning sorrow, wretchedness, adversity, etc... but has never been translated as sin. God created "evil" only in the sense that he made sorrow, wretchedness, etc. to be the fruits of sin.

[enzarto]

My brother that is incorrect. The Bible does not say that. In fact he created choice which exists among us, evil is very much existent created by the power and the will of God, but this very much correlates to the fact that those who seek the message will be saved.

[boomtastic67]

Yes God gave us free will. But saying God created evil to test us is like saying he put fossils in the earth to test our faith in Genesis.

[enzarto]

Those who seek him are the ones he will care about in the end, not the ones who don't seek him. This is the design behind the reasoning for good and evil. By the way, fossilization occurs very rapidly, so God would not have had to put them here, they occured within nature.

[boomtastic67]

The fossilization thing was just an analogy...i to believe the same thing. Yet, im not following the beginning of your statement.

[enzarto]

Those who seek the truth will find it, I'll put it that way.

[boomtastic67]

Indeed

[kev3d]

Fossilization does NOT occur rapidly. Do you know anything about paleontology?

[enzarto]

in my 6th of 8th year of neurobiological science and environmental development, so yes, i may have slightly come across the word fossilization, but seriously, don't even take it from me.

[kev3d]

The you know that Fossils take anywhere from several thousand to perhaps tens of thousands of years to properly leech the surrounding minerals to replace the original organic material. This is largely dependent on how quickly the body is buried and the soil or mud composition.

[enzarto]

i have fossilized medicine sticks, looking at them right now, went through everything that needs it to become a fossil...another fact is that i was alive during the whole fossilization process...oh ya, and im also under a billion years old.

[kev3d]

Yes, Im sure you went through the entirely natural process of burial in say, a limestone rich environment and then dug up the material at a later time to find all the organic material replaced with minerals.

[enzarto]

all im saying is the classification of fossilization does not necessarily take millions of years...that's a fact. I've physically, along side colleagues, done experiments from fossils that took several years...natural elements contained being fossilized. well have a good one, we are debating something that does not pertain to the video directly, and well, we are debating science which is incomplete anyway.

[kev3d]

But in natural settings, it doesn't happen quickly. We find wood, food and bones in Ancient Chinese, Egyptian, Mesopotamian and American burial cites that are not fossilized. SOME fossils may form faster than others according to resources. But there is No evidence at all that dinosaurs A; Fossilized quickly B. That Humans and Dinosaurs were contemporary. C. That a universal flood took place. Thus Genesis is wrong.

[enzarto]

I could really argue that, but I won't hear, msg me, if you wish to speak to me on environtal issues like fossilization. notes that i've learnt to pretty much memorize in my sleep

[kev3d]

The bible is in every way against free will. Romans 9:11-22 explains that we are either called or not BEFORE WE ARE BORN. Again in 2nd Thessalonians 2:13 we see how it works. The verses before in 2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12 explain how god himself will try to trick you. What terrible terrible philosophy.

[kev3d]

The "prophecy" of a Virgin birth? Made up! The Hebrew uses the word for Maiden (Alma) or young woman, not virgin, the greek translations screwed it up. The Adultress before Jesus, added later! Paul of Tarsus? Never met Jesus. Revelation? A dream. (Other apocalypses were rejected)

[mishyprizes]

What are you babbling about? Are you all knowing? Do you understand completely how the human body works? How about space and time? Mathematics?Physics? Can you answer one question that has been baffling the great minds of our time? I am 100% sure the answer is no.You make your statements as if they are based on irrefuteable facts.

[boomtastic67]

I think your concept of evil is flawed. Evil does not exist, just as cold or darkness does not exist; they are just the absence of the opposite. (darkness is the absence of light...there's no such thing as "darkness") Instead, evil is the absence of good. So God did not create something called evil...evil is just a lack of good.

[enzarto]

wow listen to this guy, lol.

[kev3d]

Beside "Loling" like a developmentally stunted child, you might want to actually come up with a convincing argument. "Seek truth an recieve" is not convincing because it was researching the bible that lead me to Atheism. "Heaven" is not a reward worth pursuing, "Hell" is not a punishment worthy of fear.

[enzarto]

lol again...then you've found your truth, what's the argument then? when i said truth you thought i meant the bible just because you think i believe in God, yet, you don't even know me.

[kev3d]

The argument is whether or not to accept iron age mythology as truth or real science. These things DO have an affect on everything from people denying lifesaving medicine to their children, to terrorism, to the teaching of science in public schools.

[a2daredevil00]

I feel for the contemporary farmer in North China or the farmer who lived in North America 3,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ who will be burning in Hell, because they knew not this deity you speak of.

[d0gskin]

see my link above, then you can get well in touch with the arguments. :D Thanx you guys are rad!

[a2daredevil00]

Their were deities and morals BEFORE Christianity. Belief in the unseen just because you were born in a certain culture or want them to be so, do a diservice to humans and human progress.

[a2daredevil00]

Free Will can not exist with an all-knowing deity. Even if he is "out of our concept of time", he still knows what choice you make regarding him and why you do it. Why "give" a choice, when you KNOW the choice? So we can "surprsie" this deity in that regard? A TRUE loving being would not shun those who did not accept him. We humans can be more moral than that... Morals come from the SOCIAL CONTRACT, not deities.

[kev3d]

Hear Hear

[mishyprizes]

Just because an all knowing deity knows the choice you are going to make doesnt make it any less of  freewill. It was your choice to make the decision that you did. It was yours to make.

[a2daredevil00]

The fact that you have to "choose" to believe in a tyranical deity is NO love. John 3:16 (perish) and Mark 16:16 are foul dictates of a "loving" deity. This belief goes against basic morality that says it is morally wrong to punish someone for not believing what you say. The (illogical) concept of "freewil" doesn't excuse this horrible belief. I put a gun to your head, I'll let you live, if you love me, if not, I pull the trigger?

[mishyprizes]

Basic "morality" states you do the crime you do the time. In John 3:16. Your crimes have been paid for by Jesus.If you think someone stepping in to help you is foul then I truly feel sorry for you. No one is twisting your arm or "putting a gun to your head".You dont have to "choose" to believe in God.That is absurd.Make your decisions and understand what the consequences are and accept them ,they are solely your own and cant be blamed on another

[kev3d]

Another absurdity. Basic morality also states that "lusting in your heart" is NOT the same as Adultery. "Hating" or Not liking a person is NOT the same as Murdering. Yet Jesus tells us that it is. Its illogical, immoral nonsense.

[baggeas]

I must respond to your "God DOES create evil" comment. So how can there be evil in the world? Easy, it is called choice. As I see it, God had two choices when He created us. 1) Make us robots to do whatever He wanted or 2) Give us free will to follow or to not follow. By that stance, He gave you and I the ability to do good or evil. It is our choice. God cannot allow the good to have free will and the bad to be robots because that is a contradiction to His nature.

[kev3d]

I find it odd that, despite being made by a perfect God, 100% of the creatures made in his image are Sinful. For some reason though, we cannot violate, say, the Law of Gravity or Forces occuring in pairs. (which god never mentions) but we can easily break, say Adultery laws, just by looking. God sees fit on the other hand, to break his own laws to create miracles.

[baggeas]

I think you have a decent point. But perfect requires a non choice paradigm. There is no set experiment with a choice varible that you can design without a failure. Laws of Gravity are not choice based. You do not choose to obey them. Does that make sense?

[kev3d]

Why does "perfect" require a something (or several natural laws, as it turns out) that cannot be violated? And exactly how are we an experiement? According to the Bible, God ALREADY knows how all will act. Hardly a "test". Unless God, were he to exist really IS a scientist in which case, the bible is wrong. We either have a God that is infinitely absurd or inconsistent. Or, of course, its all wishful thinking.

[d0gskin]

Free will is a moral right given by God: * Good and evil are products of free will (premise) * Thus, there can be no good nor evil without free will * Thus, to remove evil would be to remove free will, which would also remove all good * Thus, to remove all evil is to remove all good, which is evil, so therefore, free will is necessary and is a divine manifestation of God.

[kev3d]

Thats the silliest circular logic I have ever read. god does NOT give free will when it comes to Gravity, forces occuring in pairs, and other laws of physics. Why would god give us two sets of rules, one breakable and one unbreakable?

[d0gskin]

Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but that is the actual (logical) philosophical framework of the "freewill" argument. See for yourself on wikipedia. I was giving a logical defense to the "Problem of Pain" argument that was posted earlier.

[kev3d]

Man is cast from the garden for being fooled, not for being evil, angels guard against the tree of "ever lasting life" and the garden, the flood; Noah had no choice but to build the ark, lest he would die. Jesus forgives all who accept him and repent and "sin no more" (which is impossible) rather than saying "I will judge you, if you did more good than bad, welcome to heaven". I can be more specific.

[mishyprizes]

The first sin was disobeying God and wanting to be GODS.

[mishyprizes]

Look up the meaning of will before you make any more odd statements. Since when has free will (the power of control the mind has over its own actions)ever been associated with controlling the laws of nature!

[kev3d]

Its only Odd to you because you don't get it. There are natural laws (which God likes to break for some reason) but humans Cant break, and there is "God's" law that is impossible to keep. If God existed, He would be guilty of extortion.

[mishyprizes]

Imagine if greedy selfish loathsome humans could break the natural laws. What kind of place would earth be? It would be like living in a violent video game. Thats right Gods law are impossible to keep. They are to remind us of our true selves. The hidden liar, thief, adulterer, murderer etc. in all of us. An extortionists would not give a way out of that. Or even warn you of the consequences of those kind of actions.Look at the world we live in.

[kev3d]

"greedy selfish loathsome humans" Are in God's Image, are they Not? (Actually, men only, women are made for men) Apparently God lets us murder, but doesn't let us fly. But as I said (or the bible says anyway) God creates evil.

[ThaipRighter]

God is Great.

But we in our puny human form cannot comprehend what God is in whole.

Its like a dog cannot understand our "computers".

"We" cannot fully understand God in total.

But we try. I like the vid*.

Take care-

[monster1221]

God is benevolent, He is able & willing, He has control over all that He had created. the true problem is; "gruel" lacks God, "gruel" has eyes but cannot see. religion requires only faith, "gruel" lacks faith therefore he knows nothing of God as God shall bless those who have not seen Him yet believe. sigh. i feel sorry for gruel.

[Mufafu]

who or what is gruel?

[monster1221]

that's one of the commenters

[a2daredevil00]

Numbers 31? God is benevolent? Yes, he is benevolent to his "elect". He loves you if you accept him. All others are lost. We humans can be MORE moral than that... I have to say, I'd rather burn in the mythical Hell, than be in Heaven and forget all those who DIDN'T know or accept him (Hindus, Anne Frank, Ghandi, worshippers of Odin, the babies that died in Egypt, the people who died on the other side of the world during the Flood myth, etc, etc.)

[a2daredevil00]

What also gets me regarding the Jesus redemption myth... So a deity (who knows all things), knew humans would sin, knew he would destroy them in a Flood, knew he would send his son (?) to die for us, knows how it ends in Revelations. However, this isn't much of a miracle. *I* would die for all of humanity myself, if I knew it would "save" them. A deity doing it, knowing he would be risen when all is said and done? Not special... Any millions of humans would do it also.

[mishyprizes]

A true loving being is fair and just. You make the choice if you want to follow laws or not. But their is consequences. As for you dieing for all humanity ...oh please !you would suffer horrible tortures and a death so horrible and painful they invented a word for it (excruciating)for murderers thieves and sexual deviants liars???? Sorry but you are a liar.

[kev3d]

"A true loving being is fair and just" So "Accept me, repent or DIE" is fair? Can God get anything right? 100% of creatures in his image Sin. At least some (Half?) of His Angels went against him. His book? Full of holes, myths and bad logic.

[mishyprizes]

That is the perfection of free will. The concept is absolutely perfect. How it is used is not because we are not perfect beings. God does not push himself on anyone. Going to heaven is easier than going to hell.The choice is yours. What holes are "his book" full of? Is it because you dont get it.

[kev3d]

What were Jesus' last words on the Cross? Pretty important to know, wouldn't you say? Yet the Gospels disagree. God is "all loving" yet he creates evil. He sees his creation as "good" yet sees fit to kill 99.9% of all species. etc.

[mishyprizes]

How do the Gospels disagree? God did not create evil.

[kev3d]

Isaiah 45:6-7 God creates evil. One example, Mark and Matthew say Jesus' last words were "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Luke says "..Into your hands I commit my spirit" John says "It is finished".

[kev3d]

God doesn't push himself on anyone? Really? Then why the directives to slay infidels? Why did he literally throw rocks at Joshua's (and His) enemies? Of course none of this happened, its just a myth. Going to heaven is easy? Have you even read the Bible?

[mishyprizes]

The directive to slay infidels is in the Koran. Get your religious texts right. Second I have read the bible you should too maybe then you would be able to make the distinction.

[kev3d]

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 Slay those who serve other gods. Even if it is your Brother, your kids, friend or wife, Stone them and show no pity.

Deuteronomy 13:2-5 Anyone who tries to get you turn away from God should be put to death. Time to reread the bible, Id say.

[mishyprizes]

Mt. 7:6 (KJV),1 Ti 6:21 (KJV)

[HatTricksInc]

I see that you, as I before, select the verses which truly reflect the good God you believe in, and leave the others that don't in the category of "only God knows" and "I will trust him sense he is God, and I am not."

I understand that. That's where I use to be. However, I think it's a fair challenge to say that for Christians it is not the Bible but rather Christians interpretation of it that defines their morality and worldview.

[HatTricksInc]

This explains the differences between so many Christian denominations and what one's interprets in the Bible as literal or metaphor, current and obviously from a loving God verses no longer current and I don't know why that was loving, but I trust that God does know and is loving is a part of how that works.

[HatTricksInc]

Not so easy nor likely if you're a wealthy individual, says Jesus.

Then you've really got "the Hell prize."

Not the best eternal lotto to win.

[HatTricksInc]

It's not a fair response. People have risked their lives for others and even for larger groups of others (people in general) throughout history.

Guandi and Martin Luther King are just two of recent examples.

Are they liars also?

I see that you also have faith that you yourself are "all knowing."

In that, you will not have mine.

[blopplop]

God's answer to Epicurus's riddle (cont.)

Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

[HatTricksInc]

Any God worth believing in created the mind and it's compacity for observation and reason. To not use it to the potential with which he gave it, is not way of honoring him and using well what he has given you.

Maybe in a different context, these verses make sense. But not in response to sophisticated thought. That's an offense to the God who made the human mind and deserves greater glory and respect especially by our fully making use of it.

[blopplop]

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:20-27 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

[HatTricksInc]

You know, the thing I've always disliked about these verses, is the fact that encourages people to shut down their minds, shut out reason and science and argument in favor of the thoughts of people that lived 2,000 years earlier in human history and development.

That's not advantage, but a good affirmation for a "Bubble Boy" culture.

[qruel]

Epicurus's riddle

Is God willing but not able to prevent evil? If so he's not omnipotent

Is God able but not willing? Then he's malevolent

Is God both able & willing? Then from where comes evil?

Is God neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Is God willing but not able to control Satan? If so he's not omnipotent.

Is God able but not willing? Then he's malevolent

Is God both able & willing? Then from why does Satan do as he does?

[qruel]

Is God neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

God cannot be ominscient & omnipotent & omnibenevolent & exist in this universe, which has evil