evil? Good? These are just social constructs; morality is subjective. (Watch my Son of God vid, there is a funny response to the idea of free will in heaven.)
free will? They would still have free will, because they could ignore their parents directly and do it anyway, but they would probably listen to their parents to not get in trouble. But yeah, God is a wicked bastard!
What I hear you saying is that since you're more enlightened due to your having wised-up enough to reject the notion of a higher being (and so magnanimously love those who pathetically do believe in God through pity) that your life is somehow more meaningful than theirs? Is it that, due to the fact that you've rejected a notion of a God, a believing Christian who, like you, also works to save children from death or suffering has less meaning life? I'm not quite getting your point here...
The problem with the whole purpose issue, as I see it, is that people think purpose must be externally imposed. Why can we not create our own meaning for our lives?
If purpose must be externally applied, then what is God's purpose? Why does he exist? Since there is nothing external that he did not create, then he must be, by that logic, without purpose. If God has no purpose, what purpose could he provide us? Surely nothing satisfying to the religious mind.
Excellent vid Drix, but so refreshing to see an educated and intelligent young man using proper reasoning. So much in the world is narrow minded bigotry. Keep it up.
Here, Jordan. The humor I find in that question; "without God, wouldn't life be meaningless", is that it says specifically that "I CANNOT DEFINE MY OWN LIFE". But they are defining there own life by choose who's definition they agree with. It all seems so much like an attempt to escape responsibility, doesn't it?
Very bad analogy, drix. You said the kids, having heard the invitation to touch the HOT grill by the teenager, DID'NT KNOW any better (they didn't know it would burn them very badly) Adam and EVE, however, knew they would "...surely die" ....sigh....a really very bad analogy.
Here's what we can say about Adam and Eve. They didn't actually know from their experience. They had God's word against Satan's. How is that any different from my analogy?
They didn't know from 'experience'....true. But they still knew 'better'. God warned them of what would happen if they disobeyed him. In your analogy, you said the kid didn't even know the hot grill would burn him, correct?? Your analogy would stand if God had created the tree and didn't say ANTHING at all about it to Adam and Eve before they ate of it but ofcourse that's not at all how the story actually goes.
Adam and Eve were TOLD that they shouldn't eat from the tree. They didn't KNOW what would happen to them if they did eat from it. They had to trust what God said, not their own experience.
Children (typically) do not KNOW what will happen if they touch a stove. So they are TOLD not to and must trust what their parents tell them.
The analogy not only stands, it is almost point-for-point.
In addition, your problem seems to be arguing that they "knew better". What reason do we have to believe that they knew any more about this tree than a child knows about a hot grill?
The only knowledge they had was the testimony of their father. Just like the children in the grill analogy.
That's a very convenient escape, if I may say so. If you don't know good or evil, you can't know that eating from the tree and disobeying God is evil. But even if I concede your point, you can't do "evil" in the first place unless the creator of all things invents the concept of "evil" and makes humans in such a way that they can feel and experience pain and suffering. The creation story is a logical nightmare.
What the hell are you talking about man??! God told them NOT to eat of the tree, PERIOD, lest they perish. Therefore, they KNEW that eating of it was bad, and NOT eating of it was GOOD. This is very elementary stuff, guy. 'Evil' is SIMPLY violating the laws set up by God for his creation; laws that are meant for our best interest.
Maybe the biblical creation story - in and of itself - is logically sound to you. I kindly disagree with you - not just on the mandate not to eat from the tree, but the whole story - from the creation up to and including the flood. Regardless, it's a fairy tell that explains absolutely nothing about the human condition. As usual, religion provides bad answers to good questions.
You are making very broad assertions. It's a logical fallacy to say that just because something simply sounds like a fairy tale....therefore it IS a fairy tale. There are billions of people world wide who believe the Genesis account to be 'true' for VARIOUS reasons.
Holy Crap man....the Bible harps on the 'human condition' like you wouldn't believe!! Are you being serious or are you just trolling, man? Anyway, later, got to go visit a buddy in the hopsital!
Not trolling at all. I'm dead serious. And I didn't say that the Bible doesn't deal with the human condition. It just doesn't succeed in explaining anything. The "fall of man" fairy tale does not explain cancer, mental disease, physical deformities, poverty/starvation in 3rd world countries and many other issues that fall under the "problem of pain and suffering." A billion people believe that Muhammad took a night flight into heaven on a horse. Doesn't make it true.
I find a good way to respond to theists claiming that life lacks meaning without their god like this:
Confirm that they think that their god's existence has a purpose, then ask if their god was made by something else or if there's something greater than god, they'll likely say no... that means that they concede that the assertion that something being unable to have purpose without it being inferred by something else is wrong... So why can't we also have purpose without it being inferred to us?
Tell me, specifically, why you believe that your god is real and make it so that l, too, will be convinced. Note that the bible is not going to convince me - and millions of others.
As yet, after asking many, l have had no answers anywhere near worthwhile contacting the global media about and l have not had the merest suggestion from within my own self that l should rush to the nearest church to repent.
Theists have nothing more than their indoctrination.
A better anology would be "Dad has left some liquor on the table in the living room, open and next to two glasses. His two kids wander in and look at it. A visiting friend of theirs then tempts them to take a swig.. they've been curious why daddy had booze. Who is responsible?" The father, of course. He was irresponsible enough to leave alcohol out in front of his kids.
Good analogy. The reason I chose a hot stove is to emphasize the severity of the decision. The implications of the Genesis Myth is that ALL suffering and death is due to the singular mistake made by Adam and Eve.
When it really comes down to what life is about, the most important thing is to enjoy yourself and be responsible towards others in a way to be free of causing harm to others.
Knowledge along this path is a bonus.
I really liked this presentation and that was the first time I heard the Garden of Eden/snake explanation put that way.
I will use this the next time someone attempts to proselytise me. In the past I have used the rationalization that the garden/snake story was fantasy.
I liked your description of your friends reaction. Really cool.
I read this little saying a few days ago:
"Immature Love is: I love you because i need you.
Mature Love is: I need you because i love you."
And I think that most christians have a "crutch" in religion. I see many signs of christians thinking that the earth would devolve into chaos if people stopped believing. Btw wouldn't that be the ultimate "free will".
evil? Good? These are just social constructs; morality is subjective. (Watch my Son of God vid, there is a funny response to the idea of free will in heaven.)
juntaon 2 years ago
free will? They would still have free will, because they could ignore their parents directly and do it anyway, but they would probably listen to their parents to not get in trouble. But yeah, God is a wicked bastard!
juntaon 2 years ago
watch my valentine's video! ^_^
juntaon 2 years ago
What I hear you saying is that since you're more enlightened due to your having wised-up enough to reject the notion of a higher being (and so magnanimously love those who pathetically do believe in God through pity) that your life is somehow more meaningful than theirs? Is it that, due to the fact that you've rejected a notion of a God, a believing Christian who, like you, also works to save children from death or suffering has less meaning life? I'm not quite getting your point here...
rewell1 2 years ago
The problem with the whole purpose issue, as I see it, is that people think purpose must be externally imposed. Why can we not create our own meaning for our lives?
If purpose must be externally applied, then what is God's purpose? Why does he exist? Since there is nothing external that he did not create, then he must be, by that logic, without purpose. If God has no purpose, what purpose could he provide us? Surely nothing satisfying to the religious mind.
doloafing 2 years ago
Excellent vid Drix, but so refreshing to see an educated and intelligent young man using proper reasoning. So much in the world is narrow minded bigotry. Keep it up.
leondejersey 2 years ago
Here, Jordan. The humor I find in that question; "without God, wouldn't life be meaningless", is that it says specifically that "I CANNOT DEFINE MY OWN LIFE". But they are defining there own life by choose who's definition they agree with. It all seems so much like an attempt to escape responsibility, doesn't it?
RichardRoy2 2 years ago
or what if you knew your kids were going to be in the back yard so you removed the hot grill so they couldn't burn themselves?
kornable 2 years ago
exactly. What was the tree doing there in the first place?
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
Very bad analogy, drix. You said the kids, having heard the invitation to touch the HOT grill by the teenager, DID'NT KNOW any better (they didn't know it would burn them very badly) Adam and EVE, however, knew they would "...surely die" ....sigh....a really very bad analogy.
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
I'm not sure how the analogy doesn't stand.
Here's what we can say about Adam and Eve. They didn't actually know from their experience. They had God's word against Satan's. How is that any different from my analogy?
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
They didn't know from 'experience'....true. But they still knew 'better'. God warned them of what would happen if they disobeyed him. In your analogy, you said the kid didn't even know the hot grill would burn him, correct?? Your analogy would stand if God had created the tree and didn't say ANTHING at all about it to Adam and Eve before they ate of it but ofcourse that's not at all how the story actually goes.
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
You're really having a hard time with this one.
Adam and Eve were TOLD that they shouldn't eat from the tree. They didn't KNOW what would happen to them if they did eat from it. They had to trust what God said, not their own experience.
Children (typically) do not KNOW what will happen if they touch a stove. So they are TOLD not to and must trust what their parents tell them.
The analogy not only stands, it is almost point-for-point.
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
Let me clarify. Not only did God say, "Do NOT eat of the tree. He also said when you eat of it you will die.
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
You're still grasping at the same straws, dude.
"Kids do NOT touch the Grill. If you touch it you will be burned."
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
At this point I am painfully confused.
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
In addition, your problem seems to be arguing that they "knew better". What reason do we have to believe that they knew any more about this tree than a child knows about a hot grill?
The only knowledge they had was the testimony of their father. Just like the children in the grill analogy.
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
@friendlydiplomat
That's a very convenient escape, if I may say so. If you don't know good or evil, you can't know that eating from the tree and disobeying God is evil. But even if I concede your point, you can't do "evil" in the first place unless the creator of all things invents the concept of "evil" and makes humans in such a way that they can feel and experience pain and suffering. The creation story is a logical nightmare.
mrw21 2 years ago
What the hell are you talking about man??! God told them NOT to eat of the tree, PERIOD, lest they perish. Therefore, they KNEW that eating of it was bad, and NOT eating of it was GOOD. This is very elementary stuff, guy. 'Evil' is SIMPLY violating the laws set up by God for his creation; laws that are meant for our best interest.
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
@friendlydiplomat
Maybe the biblical creation story - in and of itself - is logically sound to you. I kindly disagree with you - not just on the mandate not to eat from the tree, but the whole story - from the creation up to and including the flood. Regardless, it's a fairy tell that explains absolutely nothing about the human condition. As usual, religion provides bad answers to good questions.
mrw21 2 years ago
You are making very broad assertions. It's a logical fallacy to say that just because something simply sounds like a fairy tale....therefore it IS a fairy tale. There are billions of people world wide who believe the Genesis account to be 'true' for VARIOUS reasons.
Holy Crap man....the Bible harps on the 'human condition' like you wouldn't believe!! Are you being serious or are you just trolling, man? Anyway, later, got to go visit a buddy in the hopsital!
friendlydiplomat 2 years ago
@friendlydiplomat
Not trolling at all. I'm dead serious. And I didn't say that the Bible doesn't deal with the human condition. It just doesn't succeed in explaining anything. The "fall of man" fairy tale does not explain cancer, mental disease, physical deformities, poverty/starvation in 3rd world countries and many other issues that fall under the "problem of pain and suffering." A billion people believe that Muhammad took a night flight into heaven on a horse. Doesn't make it true.
mrw21 2 years ago
The problem is as soon as you throw religion out the door, it comes crawling back through the window.
Even when it seems like there can be no God, there is just enough absurdity to bring you back around to the idea that there MUST be.
vbfl920 2 years ago
I love your vids, especially this one. please dont ever stop.
poplyx 2 years ago
I find a good way to respond to theists claiming that life lacks meaning without their god like this:
Confirm that they think that their god's existence has a purpose, then ask if their god was made by something else or if there's something greater than god, they'll likely say no... that means that they concede that the assertion that something being unable to have purpose without it being inferred by something else is wrong... So why can't we also have purpose without it being inferred to us?
jtbovis 2 years ago
jtbovis
l try a simpler approach.
I ask:
Tell me, specifically, why you believe that your god is real and make it so that l, too, will be convinced. Note that the bible is not going to convince me - and millions of others.
As yet, after asking many, l have had no answers anywhere near worthwhile contacting the global media about and l have not had the merest suggestion from within my own self that l should rush to the nearest church to repent.
Theists have nothing more than their indoctrination.
draagon66 2 years ago
Amazing videos, I think this is your best work yet. Crossing 1000 subs is well deserved.
good to have you back
Jayreuts3 2 years ago
Jordan?
It's great to have you back.
You're a good kid.
Kisses
ggab7768 2 years ago
you brought up some great questions
xtcx2e 2 years ago
"free" will? haha.. HAHA.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAA!
"free" will - a SLAVE...
Scorner99 2 years ago
A better anology would be "Dad has left some liquor on the table in the living room, open and next to two glasses. His two kids wander in and look at it. A visiting friend of theirs then tempts them to take a swig.. they've been curious why daddy had booze. Who is responsible?" The father, of course. He was irresponsible enough to leave alcohol out in front of his kids.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago 2
Good analogy. The reason I chose a hot stove is to emphasize the severity of the decision. The implications of the Genesis Myth is that ALL suffering and death is due to the singular mistake made by Adam and Eve.
DrixDZanth 2 years ago
in a way I dont get how christians can claim they believe genesis to be allegory.
their entire religion relies on original sin. unless they believe its ok to torture and kill a supposedly real person for the sake of a metaphor.
carnut666 2 years ago
AWESOME!
When it really comes down to what life is about, the most important thing is to enjoy yourself and be responsible towards others in a way to be free of causing harm to others.
Knowledge along this path is a bonus.
I really liked this presentation and that was the first time I heard the Garden of Eden/snake explanation put that way.
I will use this the next time someone attempts to proselytise me. In the past I have used the rationalization that the garden/snake story was fantasy.
bobster451 2 years ago
Drix in the house!! I hope your exams went well.
I liked your description of your friends reaction. Really cool.
I read this little saying a few days ago:
"Immature Love is: I love you because i need you.
Mature Love is: I need you because i love you."
And I think that most christians have a "crutch" in religion. I see many signs of christians thinking that the earth would devolve into chaos if people stopped believing. Btw wouldn't that be the ultimate "free will".
CognosSquare 2 years ago 2
Dude, BRAVO, keep up the great work and great to have ya back!!
neoyorke 2 years ago
Good to see you back. Liking your arguments, I might steal them sometime.
theatheistguy 2 years ago
Life without god is meaningless, life with god is absurd.
Shalek 2 years ago 2
inherently its meaningless. its a white canvas for you to paint on. have fun.
Impulse799 2 years ago 2
We think alike.
Shalek 2 years ago 2
It worked.
BohemianBlasphemy 2 years ago