Utah protests Prop 8 (Nov 7, 2008)

[hattersuffa]

REPEALED! 

[HPoelzig]

The Mormon funding of Prop 8 was despicable-- and I'm one who defends Mormons against bigoted remarks by Evangelicals. You'd think Mormons would have more empathy for a persecuted minority.

[tahir1alkaroury]

no gay marriage i am so happy that i live in Utah

[beka2marie]

It's America! Mormons have every right to do what they did....you lost....get over it!!

[mschmitz31]

No, snipermagoo. Everyone has suffered, if not now, in the past. Conservative religious communities are mocked by secular, liberal, homosexual communities everyday.

Also: It's not okay for me to wish the the term "marriage" wouldn't be changed? I want equal rights for all too, but changing a word won't do much and takes away MY right to consider my marriage "traditional". When the GLBT community can present a valid legislative "rights" argument, I will support them in all their efforts.

[snipermagoo]

>No, snipermagoo. Everyone has suffered, if not now, in the past. Conservative religious communities are mocked by secular, liberal, homosexual communities everyday.

Oh, no, mocking!

>Also: It's not okay for me to wish the term "marriage" wouldn't be changed?

Sure it is. but then, I didn't say it wasn't.

>MY right to consider my marriage "traditional"

Your marriage won't be? Sure it won't.

>valid legislative "rights" argument

Equality under the law not good enough?

[mschmitz31]

"Mocked" is a term used loosely. How about "discriminated", "Attacked", and completely "disrespected"? Is that good for you? Or did you have to search your brain to figure those out? You're from the U.K. What do you know about living in America as a religious independent or a religious conservative? Probably not much, considering that you're 33 and still haven't figured out how to make a valid argument.

No. If they want their rights, I'll be the FIRST one to support them...

[mschmitz31]

... but it's absurd to try and change something that is held so dear by the heterosexual/religious/conserv­ative community just so you can call your relationship a "traditional marriage" and force your propaganda down our throats. The GLBT community (the violent ones, not all of them) seem eager to pick on the LDS Church mainly because they won't fight back. If they tried to pull their shit on the black/hispanic/catholic communities, they'd be beaten to a pulp. And they know it.

[mschmitz31]

Stop trying to act like YOU'RE the intellectual and the rest of us, who hold traditional views, are brainwashed, homophobic, idiotic "republicans". We know and accept more lifestyles and changes than you think.

[mschmitz31]

.... and the N.Y. Times seems to think all this bullshit against the Church is ridiculous too... clearly everyone is pissed about the outrageously ridiculous defamation the GLBT community has forced on the Mormons. I respect that you have a strong opinion, snipermagoo, I really do.... but you seem to consistently want to pick fights with the posters on this page. Why can't you understand that many others also have strong opinions? Don't label us because you disagree with us.

[snipermagoo]

>and the N.Y. Times seems to think

Argument from authority....

>clearly everyone is pissed

What, EVERYONE?!

>but you seem to consistently want to pick fights with the posters on this page. Why can't you understand that many others also have strong opinions?

This is a Youtube comment list. People can post, and others can reply. Your attitude of 'we all have strong opinions, but you can't address ours' is ridiculous.

[snipermagoo]

lol, stop telling me what I think.

[snipermagoo]

>it's absurd to try and change etc

Ah, well if you say so, then it must be true.

The LDS church? I blame the high profile of their organised support of Prop 8. They haven't exceeded their remit as far as I can see and I agree that they're being singled out.

[snipermagoo]

>haven't figured out how to make a valid argument.

I know ad hominem when I see it. And you chose your words, so don't whine about not meaning what you said.

[mschmitz31]

I really had hoped that you would be an adult about this. I appreciate that you don't agree with me. If everyone agreed, then life would be horribly bland. My original comment was to say that nearly all Mormons feel like they were targeted unfairly, that we want everyone to be able to reach a fair agreement that pleases everyone.

That's all I said. If you choose to go on and post "proof" that my arguments are all ludicrous, that's your choice.

I choose to think you're acting like a child.

[snipermagoo]

>I really had hoped that you would be an adult about this.

What the hell? What did I do that was childish other than disagree with you? Why is it okay for you to respond to me, but if I do the same thing I'm being childish?

You're the one who needs to grow up, you egotistic.

>That's all I said.

You've had quite a lot to say. Quit crying and calling me immature when I disagree. If you don't like it, don't post on Youtube.

[peelpod]

Thank you Utah for standing with us here in California and across our entire nation. United we stand. We WILL overcome legislated discrimination and civil inequality. With lots of LOVE from your brothers and sisters in San Francsico.

[DCidealist]

I've been really torn about all the criticism being aimed at the LDS Church recently. It shouldn't lead to intolerence, but I think it's important to acknowledge that the Church wields an immense amount of power - both over its members and in society at large. I think that's what I like most about this particular video - it seems to give voice to that conflictedness. The Church can be a great part of our culture, but it isn't blameless either.

[jrummy316]

This is poor tolerance from a group that demands tolerance! The Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were only excercisizing their rights of freedom of speech in the democratic process.

[mschmitz31]

I am deeply saddened for my gay/lesbian friends who cannot marry, but I hope that someday soon, we will all be able to reach a happy medium. The concern of most "Yes" supporters is that, even if it doesn't take effect now, the consequences of redefining the word "marriage" and changing the laws may prohibit our religious practice and thought in future cases of law. This has nothing to do with hate and imposing our will on others. We love the GLBT community. Please leave us be.

[snipermagoo]

>Please leave us be.

Stop voting their fucking rights away, and paying for ads on the subject, and we'll think about it.

>The concern of most "Yes" supporters is that, even if it doesn't take effect now, the consequences of redefining the word "marriage" and changing the laws may prohibit our religious practice and thought in future cases of law.

"Yeah, we don't have faith in the First Amendment, so we're taking your rights away, okay?"

There's no happy medium between equal and unequal.

[mschmitz31]

I'd really prefer that you don't use immature language to express your opinion. Stop being a child. Everyone is taking rights from each other no matter what happens. You chose one side and I chose the other. "Stop voting and paying for ads"? I've never done anything of the sort. I didn't vote in CA. I didn't donate to Prop. 8. I held an opinion. I DON'T have faith in people nowadays. Look at the problems we have and THEN try to tell me I have no reason to be worried.

That's all.

[snipermagoo]

Whee, phantom moral high-ground, unsubtle dodges and a strawman.

[mschmitz31]

We are hurt that you have turned against us when we still love you. We feel frustrated at the vicious attacks made on us as a Church, when we have done nothing illegal and nothing morally reprehensible as the protesters in CA have done to us. It is wonderful that you are exercising your First Amendment right to protest legislative powers and the city courthouses. This is where change happens. HOwever, protesting outside of a sacred religious place of worship has no place in this society.

[mschmitz31]

This makes me sad. As a Mormon, I understand the frustration behind feeling discriminated against. The people of this Church have never sought unhappiness on the GLBT community. We have members who have chosen such a lifestyle and they are not evil people, nor do we cast them out like trash. As a religion, we do not believe the homosexuality is a correct principle, but not one of us (at least the sensible ones) would wish harm on the GLBT community.

[JakkuKoukei]

you really did a great job on this, Will.

xoxox - JAC

[jjgreek1]

It seems to me...people who don't support gay marriage are really retarded, because they probably think that if gay marriage was legal, they would have to marry someone of their same sex! Against gay marriage? Well don't marry the same sex then. Geez...morons everywhere

[KeepItRealPlease]

Let me see if I can wrap my brain around this one.

We're asked to swallow hook, line, and sinker the party line regarding gay/lesbian unions from the same church which is known the world over for defining marriage in its own unique way.

C'mon - keep it real, please.

[mschmitz31]

Mormons aren't polygamists.

[KeepItRealPlease]

Hmmm. Someone has a potty mouth, lots of free time for petty insults, and a huge persecution complex.

[mschmitz31]

Someone has self-esteem problems and a huge Peter Pan complex.

[chalkers]

They are - don't fucking lie.

[NomadicAddict]

Olbermann's full of it, and here's why

- Slaves were considered property, which deprived them of basic human rights, but gays have never been deprived of basic human rights.

- As for interracial marriage, the race aspect doesn't change the definition of marriage, which is defined as being between a man and woman.

- Also, prior to 1967 it was illegal for blacks and whites to co-habitat or marry, yet no one is stopping gays from forming relationships, or co-habitating for that matter.

[snipermagoo]

-Yeah, nobody was ever jailed or beaten by police for being gay in America.

-A man and woman of the correct colour?

-My oppression is bigger than your oppression?

YOU are the one who is full of it.

[willdelphia]

this is really interesting - especially how it reveals who really has the power to create change. is it the people in the streets? i would like to believe that it is the people in the streets - i think we have seen though that it is the people with the cash

[omiolo1]

I got to give it to Utah gays, there was NOT the threats and the violence like the No on Prop 8 acted in California. I guess the Mormons teach the Utah gays to pacify!

[fletchenator1]

"The last Field Poll, conducted a week before the election, showed that weekly churchgoers increased their support in the final week from 72 percent to 84 percent. Catholic support increased from 44 percent to 64 percent - a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state's entire African American population combined."