Agricultural Transgenics and Jeffery Smith- Part 3

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes The one thing I should mention is that just because a paper is written doesn't make it valid. If it isn't peer reviewed, chances are its for a reason, namely holes in the research or that the findings can't be replicated. Just a bit of forewarning. Speaking from knowledge about the industry and how the Biological sciences work as an entity.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes So, any particular why you'd say "fuck this video?" Like, do you have anything intellectual you'd like to add to the discussion, any arguments or defenses of mine you'd like to counter? Or are you just saying "fucking anything I can't argue with," because if it's the latter of the two, fuck you too, Cupcake.

[armyofgardengnomes]

@EvoGenVideos Basically, my point is that at 1:10 sec you defend Monsanto with the "well the did not know" argument. Which is bullshit. It is like Nazi war criminals saying they were just following orders. Its a bullshit point of view. Monsanto makes terminator seed which they know damn well what terminator seed was designed to do. That fact alone, is enough to never forgive Monsanto, and never forget the opportunity to destroy the corporation.

[armyofgardengnomes]

@armyofgardengnomes "well *they did not know" <---- pussy cheerleader for Monsanto comment. Where is your Monsanto skirt and poms poms?

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes But just as a point of contention, are you actually implying that unintentional ignorance that later bit them in the ass is the same as willfully and knowingly committing acts of genocide?

[armyofgardengnomes]

Its cool that you did not respond with an insult this time, so we can leave out the insults together. For the sake of a moment of clarity, if we get right down to it, you and I might agree on the value of scientific method and theories of evolution. Yet, with Monsanto, its worse than genocide, they have polluted both animal and plant genomes and in their case, the polluter is not held accountable but wins lawsuits against farmers that did nothing other than have a few bees land in their fields.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes "polluted"

There's a serious difference between pollution and transgenics. The effects on the organism aren't even close to the same. They lead perfectly healthy lives until "harvest" for want of a better description.

"wins lawsuits"

The reason for that is to prevent economic espionage. Not a fun aspect of business, but agribusiness isn't the only one who does it, nor are they the most aggressive about it. Btw, I'm defending the science, more than the companies.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes The "terminator" seed technology was to prevent cross pollination into the wild, not some death seed, or to increase farmer dependency. When dependency issues were brought up, however, they shelved the project, but kept the patents for themselves.

[armyofgardengnomes]

I took recombinant DNA technology in college and we had hell've speakers come to our class and give talks, and let me tell you, the reason that terminator seed was developed was for no motive other than profits. Their view is that the scientists did the work so they deserve a profit. Make the farmer return yearly for seed. Its the same view of Goldman Sachs that created long only commodities investments and caused the unnecessary starving of people--profits. They should be tried and hung.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes Well, anyone in business is out to make money, including the scientists who work for biotech firms, but "so and so said that was the case" doesn't mean much, unless they were the ones who developed the technology themselves. And as far as the terminator seeds, that was only one product out of many, not all transgenic crops they were going to do that to.

[EvoGenVideos]

@EvoGenVideos But if you've taken recombinant DNA tech classes, if you actually passed the class, the comparison to "polluting the genome" is an innaccurate one. You'll also know that biotech firms and agribusinesses also invest in a number of other crops besides the "terminator seeds," such as BioCassava, Golden Rice/Corn, Purple Tomatoes, Biopharming (vaccine bananas), alternative fuel sources, crops that use less fertilizer, and flood/drought resistant crops.

[EvoGenVideos]

@EvoGenVideos Also, Monsanto also has a medical side-branch called Searle, that invests in life saving cures and drugs, such as medical transgenics (namely, somatic cell gene therapy), engineered insulin, mRNAi drugs, etc.

[armyofgardengnomes]

@EvoGenVideos yeah sure where there is pain there is profit according to Monsanto,cause the cancer than provide the outrageously priced treatments. I do not give a fuck what supposedly good Monsanto has done, the effects of DDT, Agent Orange, Aspartamine, Round Up, Terminator Seed, is all enough to have any corporation totally demolished by now. They are fucking with billions of years of our human inheritance and patenting life, and no corporation is entitled to that.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes Okay, this'll take a bit. Part 1) First of all, transgenics doesn't cause cancer. Monsanto never developed Agent Orange, Aspartame, or DDT, and never produced DDT. Round Up's ingredients were changed to a less harmful version in the 1990's when their own internal auditers found inconsistencies in the process that one of the Biotech labs they were contracting was using. Terminator seed is not now nor has it ever been produced, let alone approved for commercial farming.

[armyofgardengnomes]

Dude, one of the only human studies of gmo food involved looking at a BT crop actually digest in a human gut, scientists said the altered gene sequences would be destroyed by the digestion process. Guess what, they were not, this means that bacteria in the human intestine could pick up the transgenic DNA and human guts could produce insecticide. Its entirely possible. If Monsanto terminator seed infects a natural crop and causes seeds to become unviable then Monsanto should be sued to hell.

[armyofgardengnomes]

search google for the pdf document called "GM research a gut feeling" and search other articles about it. Look, you will have to learn, someday, that science has created some really evil tools, like depleted uranium contaminated with Plutonium used in the tips of bullets, well, Monsanto transgenic technology is right up there on the list with the most fucked up, perverted and evil man made technologies in existence. Its right up there with putting the ebolla virus in the common cold.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes (part 3) Therein lies your problem though. You went to Google, instead of looking at the peer reviewed papers. You took the words of non-scientists on a scientific issue, and that should never ever be. Depleted uranium anti-tank shells also have nothing whatsoever to do with transgenic crops or the science behind them. Everything else in your last three comments was purely your opinion and nothing more.

Try going back and watching this series, from part 1 to part 4...

[armyofgardengnomes]

@EvoGenVideos Scientific literature is available on Google. Your fallacy is that just because information is listed on Google then it must be invalidated. The links to the scientific literature are right in that pdf article. The specific article is a one or two page abstract. I was trying to make it easy for people to look at. And the other examples are all abuses of science. Which is the point. You seem to be an indescriminate cheerleader for science which is not good.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes Actually, scientific literature is difficult to find on Google, and not all science literature can be found on Google. And this pdf article I'm willing to bet is written by a non-scientist, someone who isn't a relevant scientist, or it's propaganda and lies and/or not scientific literature. Or peer reviewed.

"indiscriminate cheerleader for science"

Speaking as a Biochem major, I'd rather be a cheerleader for science than for conspiracy theories or alarmist propaganda.

[armyofgardengnomes]

So only the uneducated are against gmo? Try searching Vandana Shiva on youtube, a nuclear physics graduate against Monsanto. Plenty scientists are alarmed by Monsanto. Spend some time in my "Death to Monsanto" playlist. Watch Patent for a Pig documentary, World According to Monsanto. Your job depends on cheerleading for a biotech company then so be it, but many more of out here will continue a fight against Monsanto until our dying breath. Never forgive never forget.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes Pretty much, bro. People who don't know what they're talking about are against Agricultural Transgenics. I can say that both from experience in this particular debate, and someone who is just familiar with how the industry and how the systems of peer review and approval work. I'm not checking out any playlists or propagandist documents. Oh, and don't be melodramatic. It's not the Alamo.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes Part 2) In the US, feeding studies have to be done for the FDA and USDA, or a transgenic crop isn't approved for commercial farming, and it takes about ten years to approve when the science lines up. As for the BT feeding study, the sequences for the new genes WERE destroyed. Every gene sequence is destroyed in the deamination process every time. You never get the genes for anything when you eat anything. To say otherwise is a boldfaced lie.

[armyofgardengnomes]

No the genes were proved to have transferred in the small intestine. Check the science yourself.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes I have. But I recommend a textbook or a book written by a relevant scientist, or if you can understand them, a peer reviewed paper. The problem with a site like Google is, where anyone can link to it and say whatever they want, the voice of reason is usually lost in the din of chaos. In part 4, I list a number of different places to get more information on the topic.

Like I suggested, try going back and watchings part 1 through 4 of my series to Jeff Smith.

[armyofgardengnomes]

The bacteria of the stomach were cultured and then proved to have transgenic DNA whereas the feces that was taken from having passed through the large intestine did not have it. Its not important what comes out the ass if the transfer can happen already in the small intestine. Its been proven in mice as well. The problem is that Monsanto bans any researchers from sharing peer reviewed literature of independent studies of their product, which is totally against true scientific method.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes No it hasn't, and no they don't. That's all a bold faced lie, unless you can site the actual study...

[armyofgardengnomes]

Dude, I have enjoyed to debate with you. Maybe as just part of the younger generation we started off with insults similar to your mom jokes, but really, being a fan of science unites us both. Thanks for letting me have a chance to debate with you. It shows that you are a fair person and skeptical by nature and above all scepticism is the ultimate hallmark of a good scientist. I like your style. We are both Jedis but just on different sides of the force. Peace out man. Take care.

[EvoGenVideos]

@armyofgardengnomes No, neither of us is Jedis, and you're not my equal in this discussion. We're not united by anything, not even science. I'm familiar with the actual practices, in terms of the science, and how/why companies/Universities behave the way they do in the Biotech industry, the applications of Biotech, the patent process, and just about all of the arguments from the anti-GMO camp against transgenics. If you feel like leaving do so, but don't have any false pretenses about it.

[skinnyjohnsen]

I thought it was established that BVE was caused by prions, not viruses.

Oh by the way; LithodidMan sent me. He's right; you're good ;-)

[jcrebel18]

"....Although, we do have another word for 'educated guess' in science, which is the word 'hypothesis." ;)

Anyways, just my thoughts.

[jcrebel18]

Two things:

First off, DDT, while harmful, did help eliminate malaria from the US according to: Moyers, Bill. "Bill Moyers Journal . Rachel Carson and DDT." PBS. 21 Sept. 2007. Web. 27

2nd, while I would agree that a scientific theory is NOT simply an "educated guess," the word "theory" in everyday usage is still used to mean that. So, my response would be something along the lines of, "Yes, 'theory' does mean that in everyday language, but not in science. (cont.)

[EvoGenVideos]

@jcrebel18 1) Yeah, that's true, but that wasn't the point.

2) Also true, but still not the point.

[blazereef]

@jcrebel18 2. the problem is that most people dont know what theory means in science, if they did, we may not need to have vids like these but then again, many who DO know the difference still wont accept it because they dont like the outcome, not that theres not god but that they were not specially created, selfish and pathetic TBH

[jcrebel18]

@ArsenicCigarettes

Well, state-wise, scientific literacy has increased a little, mainly due to the fact that professors insist that you learn, otherwise you fail. ;)

Nationally though, the scientific literacy of the US is still around 30% max, unfortunately. :p

[DoctorChainsaw]

@jcrebel18 - How does one meet the criteria for scientific literacy?

[EvoGenVideos]

@ArsenicCigarettes Lmao. Well, thank you, gourgeous.

[traog]

In Canada we have a famous scientist Dr. Davis Suzuki who is, an evolutionary biologist and avid environmentalist who strongly supports the fight against climate change. Yet when it comes to Bio engineering he's an alarmist anti GMO advocate. In my opinion, his left wing politics overrides his scientific background. His view of what farming should be moving to would look like farming from the middle ages, with an army of peasants working the ground by hand.

[johnnyd101]

great video. idiots like him piss me off too. thanks for the vid.

[LithodidMan]

@yarfbarg1 Hey, I have a question for you.... Do you get a great feeling of satisfaction helping women out when they are feeling "not so fresh"?

[vadimcream]

Vids like this are important. I consider myself a skeptic and reasonably well informed but I held many of JS's views for years simply because I wasn't educated on the subject and bought into the BS... I think many are likely to do the same because generally the whole anti GMO camp is tied in with the enviornmental movement, and people don't expect such big lies to come from a group that usually has facts on their side. Just goes to show one has to always make sure they are looking at FACTS.