wow. I always assume the legal term rape was the act, and had nothing to do with gender or whether or not it was vaginal or anal. I am shocked to find out that is not the case.
@YeOldeHeretic I've always thought of it as the physical representation of the closest boundary we have. That is the zone of privacy of what is underneath the extended boundary of the skin. LaughingOut is prolly right and rape is prolly not good as a term for legislation. Maybe we should just have different degrees of assault with rape falling under the most egregious of assault classifications.
I agree 100 percent. It's 20-fucking-12 and one would think that we have had enough time to get this shit right by now. Hopefully it won't take another 50 years to acknowledge that women can rape and abuse men as well and hopefully men can have balanced access to resources sooner than that too.
@YeOldeHeretic Ikr. I'm iffy on what is acceptable with regard to self mediated trauma or violations. Many of the women here on YT tell me I was assaulted when I recount some of my experiences. I'm what you call a fairly normal bloke in many respects regarding personal boundaries and sex. Brought up in an environment where women are delicate little flowers and us men are tough and always up for whatever. If a women experiences what I have I expect there reaction to be different.
@alowlyapprentice By and large I do think that it has to do with socialization, but that is just my opinion. How people feel about what happened to them and how they handled it is up to them. That said, when hearing about what happened to you, I do think that you were sexually assaulted.
@YeOldeHeretic Yes I was according to the law. I was a bit too messed up to continually object. I used to party hard and often.
On socialization, I wonder how much our feelings are molded by it. Are there some things which cause trauma or feelings of being violated no matter what. Did the Zulu feel the same trauma an Iraq war veteran does.
Yeah, it's a step in the right direction, but I think it should go further. They leave a few things out that I'd consider rape, but maybe they just put those things in another category. TheFateWolf did a good vid on men being raped.
I saw the news story and thought, "well gee, I'm sure Abner Luima feels better now". Who ever created the saying "the law is an ass" had this kind of situation in mind
Great video, I agree regarding the language. I thought about addressing male rape, but did not want the possible drama. Especially, regarding the myth that its only gay men who sexually assault other men. It has been my experience that certain myths are elevated in certain 'racial groups and class structures" due to socialization. However, now I just realize I was a wimp and will address it in the future. Peace
One weird idea that I'm coming away from this video with is this idea that you were raped and yet not traumatized by it. You think that's because of your upbringing. Would it be a good idea to bring up all people in that way so that if bad things happen they wont be traumatized?
@TheLaughingOut There are certain times people NEED to be traumatized. I think there was a psychologist (forget who) who wanted to take PTSD off the list of psychological disorders, because he felt it would be abnormal NOT to be traumatized by life-threatening danger.
@WatcherAzrael Who cares if it's abnormal? If you ask someone with PTSD if they would volunteer to be rid of it do you think many of them would say no? People who are not traumatized, by definition, lead happier, healthier lives.
Nonconsent is needed for it to be a rape by its very dictionary definitions, so the one doing the forcing of any sex act is the one who is doing the rape or sexual assault even if they are forcing a man to be a penetrator. The definitions' common factor is that there needs to be nonconsent even though the dictionaries vary on things like which acts count as rape vs sexual assault, etc. Nonconsent is the core definition of rape.
@ScentedNectar The law doesn't look to the dictionary definition though. ALA is talking about what is now legally considered rape by the FBI. I agree with you that what you said should be their definition because that is what is causing the harm.
@TheLaughingOut I personally would include that in the definition of rape (backed by dictionaries), but I know that most legal systems likely don't include it.
Yeah the definition needs to be re-worded a bit more. So that's a big fat agree on that.
Also you're right if the definition was being changed where it concerned women. Yes the topic would get more play. Because of that whole "argh me man must protect women", in my opinion. But why not protect humans. Where does this definition leave trans-gendered people? In the gray area again.
Why focus so much on penetration in the first place? I know I need to or should say more, but trying to get it all into 500 or less just doesn't work. I'll agree that it's great that the definition has been changed in a way to reflect that men can be raped.
@tattooskin72 I agree. It seems to me that the degree of force is what we should grade sexual coercion and violence by and not by specific nature. Certainly there are acts that I consider violent rape that don't involve penetration at all.
@WatcherAzrael because since my mother's cancer came back, then she passed away last month, I just haven't felt like getting involved in all the drama and even if I wanted to, every time I start making a video, it turns into a depressing piece of shit.
Do you really think that men would be less upset at being raped than women, whether it's a woman or man using a blunt object to penetrate a man, or whether it's another man committing the act? The socialisation here is a result of the biological inclination to disregard the feelings of men, not that men are less akin to trauma. This is clearly not the case given that male suicides are much higher and post-combat PTSD for men is a hugely ignored issue.
@WatcherAzrael I just got the impression that he felt that men are generically less sensitive to trauma. Perhaps they are when compared to women overall, but rape is a horrendous crime for either gender in my eyes.
@RockingMrE I see how you could see that. The way I came across could lead one to think that. I prolly should have been more clear. Violence is violence and is usually traumatic. My experiences did not involve violence.
@RockingMrE I state it has to do with how we are socialized. My intention wasn't to blow off violent assault. As for my own experiences the social bias was displayed in my experiences as not being viewed as traumatic. I can only speak for myself. I was barely conscious when it happened to me.
But I postulate as to why some men may not view there experience with the same level of trauma as a woman. Being socialized to be a big tough man and always ready for whatever whenever.
@alowlyapprentice A couple of things to note though; first, gynocentrism makes a man disposable, and as a result we struggle to understand male suffering. This phenomenon also makes it easy to understand female trauma. Second, this is the biological reason for male suffering being ignored, which results in socialisation. The fact that we are finally beginning to accept that men can be raped at all, let alone by a woman, is a step in the right direction though, which you stated in the vid.
@RockingMrE I wasn't saying men should be less upset. Just why they might. Being socialized differently than women. Women are often raised to protect their vriginity and that delicate flower between their legs and men are socialized to be the opposite.
@WatcherAzrael I have the next few vids covered but I'll revisit rape soon enough. I'll mention the FBI reclassification in the process. Rape is never far away as a topic of discussion so there is no rush.
@WatcherAzrael thank you. Laughing out brought up cunnilingus and fellatio. Not sure about that as rape or sexual assault. Penetration of some sort seems to be the standard. Should we apply that to a tongue? And conversely use my classification as stated in this video for fellatio?
@alowlyapprentice Cunnilingus and rimming forced on the victim seems to count. But a person forced to perform oral sex or man that is fellated does not seem to count. It appears this definition assumes penetration and always from guilty party. A step in the right direction just not complete.
great,thank you for speaking out,i want laws that can put away catholic priests for life/death for abuse/rape of young boys,
qqqwzz 1 week ago
wow. I always assume the legal term rape was the act, and had nothing to do with gender or whether or not it was vaginal or anal. I am shocked to find out that is not the case.
DeeDemonwitch 1 month ago
It seems to have become a game of semantics anymore--its all in the wording.
kelliko70 1 month ago
very good points & video alowlya. *hugs*
one of the questions i had was; why does rape only occur when penetration of some kind is present...
~aymi
YeOldeHeretic 1 month ago
@YeOldeHeretic I've always thought of it as the physical representation of the closest boundary we have. That is the zone of privacy of what is underneath the extended boundary of the skin. LaughingOut is prolly right and rape is prolly not good as a term for legislation. Maybe we should just have different degrees of assault with rape falling under the most egregious of assault classifications.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
I agree 100 percent. It's 20-fucking-12 and one would think that we have had enough time to get this shit right by now. Hopefully it won't take another 50 years to acknowledge that women can rape and abuse men as well and hopefully men can have balanced access to resources sooner than that too.
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 1 month ago
@YeOldeHeretic Ikr. I'm iffy on what is acceptable with regard to self mediated trauma or violations. Many of the women here on YT tell me I was assaulted when I recount some of my experiences. I'm what you call a fairly normal bloke in many respects regarding personal boundaries and sex. Brought up in an environment where women are delicate little flowers and us men are tough and always up for whatever. If a women experiences what I have I expect there reaction to be different.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@YeOldeHeretic Is it necessary for men and women to have the same reaction to the same event or transgression?
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice By and large I do think that it has to do with socialization, but that is just my opinion. How people feel about what happened to them and how they handled it is up to them. That said, when hearing about what happened to you, I do think that you were sexually assaulted.
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 1 month ago
@YeOldeHeretic Yes I was according to the law. I was a bit too messed up to continually object. I used to party hard and often.
On socialization, I wonder how much our feelings are molded by it. Are there some things which cause trauma or feelings of being violated no matter what. Did the Zulu feel the same trauma an Iraq war veteran does.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice I am sorry that happened to you, it's really shitty. But it does seem that you are in better hands now. :)
Laurel
YeOldeHeretic 1 month ago
@YeOldeHeretic I certainly am. XD
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
Yeah, it's a step in the right direction, but I think it should go further. They leave a few things out that I'd consider rape, but maybe they just put those things in another category. TheFateWolf did a good vid on men being raped.
thethegreenmachine 1 month ago
I saw the news story and thought, "well gee, I'm sure Abner Luima feels better now". Who ever created the saying "the law is an ass" had this kind of situation in mind
HeavyTrafficAhead 1 month ago
Great video, I agree regarding the language. I thought about addressing male rape, but did not want the possible drama. Especially, regarding the myth that its only gay men who sexually assault other men. It has been my experience that certain myths are elevated in certain 'racial groups and class structures" due to socialization. However, now I just realize I was a wimp and will address it in the future. Peace
EuphoricImpact 1 month ago
One weird idea that I'm coming away from this video with is this idea that you were raped and yet not traumatized by it. You think that's because of your upbringing. Would it be a good idea to bring up all people in that way so that if bad things happen they wont be traumatized?
TheLaughingOut 1 month ago
@TheLaughingOut There are certain times people NEED to be traumatized. I think there was a psychologist (forget who) who wanted to take PTSD off the list of psychological disorders, because he felt it would be abnormal NOT to be traumatized by life-threatening danger.
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael Who cares if it's abnormal? If you ask someone with PTSD if they would volunteer to be rid of it do you think many of them would say no? People who are not traumatized, by definition, lead happier, healthier lives.
TheLaughingOut 1 month ago
@TheLaughingOut True, but I was just stating that I'd heard the argument, not that it was correct.
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
Nonconsent is needed for it to be a rape by its very dictionary definitions, so the one doing the forcing of any sex act is the one who is doing the rape or sexual assault even if they are forcing a man to be a penetrator. The definitions' common factor is that there needs to be nonconsent even though the dictionaries vary on things like which acts count as rape vs sexual assault, etc. Nonconsent is the core definition of rape.
ScentedNectar 1 month ago
@ScentedNectar The law doesn't look to the dictionary definition though. ALA is talking about what is now legally considered rape by the FBI. I agree with you that what you said should be their definition because that is what is causing the harm.
Canada's definition is much better imo.
TheLaughingOut 1 month ago
@TheLaughingOut I personally would include that in the definition of rape (backed by dictionaries), but I know that most legal systems likely don't include it.
ScentedNectar 1 month ago
@ScentedNectar Ah, ScentedNectar. So unfailingly logical. Just like me. :)
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael You know, me and you could fix the world if only the world would let us. :)
ScentedNectar 1 month ago
@ScentedNectar Yeah, all we need is to fuck until we populate the entire world with our hyper-intelligent children! lol
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael Ok, but let's hurry up. I'm 49 now, and I think menopause might soon be knocking on my door. :D
ScentedNectar 1 month ago
@ScentedNectar :D
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
I think you're right.
Robobubbacunta 1 month ago
Yeah the definition needs to be re-worded a bit more. So that's a big fat agree on that.
Also you're right if the definition was being changed where it concerned women. Yes the topic would get more play. Because of that whole "argh me man must protect women", in my opinion. But why not protect humans. Where does this definition leave trans-gendered people? In the gray area again.
GodlessManitoban 1 month ago
A step in the right direction, but not perfect yet by a long shot. Like divinity says, I hope this starts a change in the prison system in america.
Good video, thanks for sharing. I agree with you, it's not about who has the tackle to penetrate, but about who's consenting and who's not.
TheBoyFromNorfolk 1 month ago
Why focus so much on penetration in the first place? I know I need to or should say more, but trying to get it all into 500 or less just doesn't work. I'll agree that it's great that the definition has been changed in a way to reflect that men can be raped.
tattooskin72 1 month ago
@tattooskin72 I agree. It seems to me that the degree of force is what we should grade sexual coercion and violence by and not by specific nature. Certainly there are acts that I consider violent rape that don't involve penetration at all.
socrates856 1 month ago
@tattooskin72 Why don't you do a video on the subject?
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael because since my mother's cancer came back, then she passed away last month, I just haven't felt like getting involved in all the drama and even if I wanted to, every time I start making a video, it turns into a depressing piece of shit.
tattooskin72 1 month ago
@tattooskin72 *hugs* I'm very sorry to hear about your mother.
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
This is such great news. I only hope it holds some weight in the prison system too.
Divinity33372 1 month ago
This is such great news. I only hope it holds some weight in the prison system too.
Divinity33372 1 month ago
Agreed
SatanRobot 1 month ago
I think you're right. :) Didn't expect that did u?
xxxild 1 month ago
@xxxild Hehe! If you are agreeing with me I must be wrong. XD
xoxoxoxo
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
Do you really think that men would be less upset at being raped than women, whether it's a woman or man using a blunt object to penetrate a man, or whether it's another man committing the act? The socialisation here is a result of the biological inclination to disregard the feelings of men, not that men are less akin to trauma. This is clearly not the case given that male suicides are much higher and post-combat PTSD for men is a hugely ignored issue.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE As far as I can tell Apprentice was only commenting on his personal experience, representing only himself.
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael I just got the impression that he felt that men are generically less sensitive to trauma. Perhaps they are when compared to women overall, but rape is a horrendous crime for either gender in my eyes.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE I see how you could see that. The way I came across could lead one to think that. I prolly should have been more clear. Violence is violence and is usually traumatic. My experiences did not involve violence.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. I hope you made a decent recovery. Good vid.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE I state it has to do with how we are socialized. My intention wasn't to blow off violent assault. As for my own experiences the social bias was displayed in my experiences as not being viewed as traumatic. I can only speak for myself. I was barely conscious when it happened to me.
But I postulate as to why some men may not view there experience with the same level of trauma as a woman. Being socialized to be a big tough man and always ready for whatever whenever.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice A couple of things to note though; first, gynocentrism makes a man disposable, and as a result we struggle to understand male suffering. This phenomenon also makes it easy to understand female trauma. Second, this is the biological reason for male suffering being ignored, which results in socialisation. The fact that we are finally beginning to accept that men can be raped at all, let alone by a woman, is a step in the right direction though, which you stated in the vid.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE I wasn't saying men should be less upset. Just why they might. Being socialized differently than women. Women are often raised to protect their vriginity and that delicate flower between their legs and men are socialized to be the opposite.
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice Fair enough.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
@RockingMrE Are you planning on doing a video on this? Seems like it would be up your alley.
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael I have the next few vids covered but I'll revisit rape soon enough. I'll mention the FBI reclassification in the process. Rape is never far away as a topic of discussion so there is no rush.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
I think you're dead on!
WatcherAzrael 1 month ago
@WatcherAzrael thank you. Laughing out brought up cunnilingus and fellatio. Not sure about that as rape or sexual assault. Penetration of some sort seems to be the standard. Should we apply that to a tongue? And conversely use my classification as stated in this video for fellatio?
alowlyapprentice 1 month ago
@alowlyapprentice Cunnilingus and rimming forced on the victim seems to count. But a person forced to perform oral sex or man that is fellated does not seem to count. It appears this definition assumes penetration and always from guilty party. A step in the right direction just not complete.
debrmck 1 month ago