Michael Masnick The Trent Reznor case study

[MusicSpeaksVolumes02]

At the heart of it all, it's very simple. Trent honestly cares about his fans, he wants to make sure that he is taking care of his fans.

[dirkadirka151]

I wish that were true, but it's not. How often do you go out to see local bands in your own city? How often do you buy their merch? How often do you drag your friends to shows? If often, do you think you're in the majority? even Trent wasn't signed because of his ingenuity. That's one city. 30 of those bands are good. 3 of them are unique and talent enough to matter elsewhere. 27 of them are derivative crap, but talented. No one supports any of them. It's a national trend.

[swu880]

I was amazed. plain amazed- ok im hooked. :):):):):)): see- this is what a buisiness is all about. Respect the customer. And in turn, the customer can then seek ur products & services. and wish to support u.

[dirkadirka151]

@swu880 If NIN was a new local band you wouldn't be hearing this. He's had more than a decade to accumulate fanboys who will eat whatever he comes out with. Talent is part of it, but image is most of it. Go to one of their shows and you'll see the role that image plays in the lives of his fans. If he were an up and coming local artist, no one would support him and he would suffocate. It's why there hasn't been a non-industry created icon since the early 90's.

[swu880]

@dirkadirka151

yeah its called a brand

Do u know what a brand is? a brand is your name- its your abilities, your achievements, your skillset, your faults, your strength- its YOU. The brand is the reason why anyone ever bothers to go eat at a restaurant. The brand is the reason why anybody bothers to go to see a medical doctor vs trying to treat oneself. The brand is the reason why people (not includin socialists) pick out university to attend - its all for the name

[swu880]

@swu880

But in order to maintain a fanbase, that is what trent is getting at here- ur brand must reflect the ability to appease & reach out to customers & give them a reason to pay you- not the other way around.

Respect & appease the customer & the customers will in turn tend to respect you- that is the way u establish a good image

[swu880]

@swu880

That is how u build ur brand

[dirkadirka151]

@swu880 Um yeah. Here's the mystery: Which is a stronger brand, a millionaire who has already sold millions of albums over a decade before paying others to develop a strong/unique web presence.... or you or me. I love Trent, but he'd have to be an idiot to mess up this business plan that's described in the video. How it's relevant to your average musician... no way whatsoever. This is as helpful as watching MTV Cribs is to your average person looking to build a house.

[swu880]

@dirkadirka151

How did he have a brand in the first place? what exactly is a brand huh? u dont seem to understand this very basic priori de facto. aka where did it come from? what is the 'brand' that you speak of?

Basically the brand is all about the name. your brand = your skill, your strengths, weaknesses, capital goods, accumulated knowledge, training, relationships, etc etc etc

[swu880]

@swu880

The way u establish a strong brand is by sellin it! And how do u sell it? hmmm can u answer this very simple question?

where does the million come from in the first place? did he just magically wake up one day & have a million copies of a song sold? lol- its all about the brand & the name- and HOW you can get a name. That is what masnick is tryin to explain to you- yet u dont seem to get it.

[AlexFolland]

@dirkadirka151 Thing is, he didn't start out with millions of albums sold. NIN has been doing following this successful and simple business model since day 1.

[CAlanRobinson]

I feel another aspect that we can keep in mind too, is that they are supporting the artist! People most of the time will be more willing to give money directly to the artist to support their music. I think one of the things that fueled piracy, was that people didnt care about taking away money from the record company, when they knew that most of the money from the record sales wasnt even going into the artists pocket, but the labels pocket.

[vinyltv]

I love this video. had to revisit.



[behyped]

It's true Trent Reznor already has an established fan base. There's no quick root to success, you still have to create remarkable music and stand out in some way or form. Trent Reznor has plenty of great ideas though. behyped.com

[S1I2A3N41]

and err okai xx what make sene dude x

[tuncvidinli]

NIN is a globally well known group. Unless you shut your company, with such reputation, you will keep on selling as long as produce and be on the eye sight. Does anybody have any idea how to be a NIN from scratch with only a home studio and few bottles of beer? That would be a real case study. That's my opinion and any thoughts are welcome.

[GarlockGargoyle]

@tuncvidinli I'm working on a comprehensive strategy to build something like this. Obviously, the first element is great music, but beyond that, I think that 21st century success for a band is completely achievable without record labels or an idol named TV show.

It outlines methods to build a following from the garage days. First you get work, then bring people to shows, then you bring your work to the people and finally you sustain your success. Largely it involves playing LOTS of gigs.

[Seagerash]

reznor is generous, intelligent and a pioneer. You don't have to be a fan of nine inch nails to see that

[PaintboarderLIVE]

this guys an idiot.

[J0NNO]

@PaintboarderLIVE

why?

[RigoKellerColas]

Radiohead did it first!

[rageneox]

That's true but Radiohead's intention was only to see how the public would react to it. It wasn't even offered in a bitrate higher than 192kbps and ultimately, the campaign was ended and people had to pay from then on.

Reznor had a much more focused goal of using this technique to succeed where many big record labels are now failing: giving the consumers a legitimate reason to purchase music. His vision and execution was far more surgical and effective than Radiohead's.

Anyway, trolling fail.

[floyded2]

@RigoKellerColas radiohead offered you to "pay what you want" for a limited time. then the price went normal.

Trent was the first to still give them out for free.

[terriblyill]

What if reznor just thought hed give back to his fan base community by giving the slip away for free and putting on a concert so insane that it cost more to produce than the revenue it gained?

Maybe he connects with his fans because he actually likes his fans?

I dont think there is a "lets breakdown this business model here" i think simply put reznor's model worked because he had fans willing to make it work.

[KurtCobainof21]

@terriblyill Your contradicting yourself a bit.

I dont think there is a "lets breakdown this business model here" i think simply put reznor's model worked because he had fans willing to make it work.

I think its naive to expect Trent doesnt have a model. He does wanna make money. He's not a charity. The only difference is he wont compromise on his music just to sell more records.

I saw Trents interview in some Internet business awards in which he accepted saying of course I wanna make money

[calibanman]

Cool presentation! The constant changing slides keep you concentrated :-).

[Majdaily]

I'm impressed, it was very interesting to watch.

I am and have been Trent Reznor fan for many years now and he always amazed me. Not only NIN music, which is obviously a defferent galaxy in this point, but also he's attitude in business. He's brave, he's real, his music is real, I believe that.

[SayedHassanNasrallah]

1) TR has an established fanbase, and has used and abused of the system for years. Have you seen how expensive are the concert tickets for NIN shows?

2) So basically, valuable music/art will cost 300$ and make very rich people happy? this is not CwF, this is CwRF: "Connect With Rich Fans".

3) I'd advise you to look into less known bands who are really connected with fans, like the french band lofofora: 20 years in the biz, 10 euros concerts tickets, 10 euros CDs, and a loyal fan base.

[redwolf2222]

1. A good show ist worse the costs

2. No, the album costs 7$. The premium pack costs 300$

3. I take a look

[BeanieBasstard]

You've missed the entire point by miles.

[Stefmanovic]

1) I dunno...the tickets arent much more expensive than other tickets for big bands. Besides, Masnick's story is about the sale of cd's, not so much the price of concert tickets.

2) There were various options available for the fans, if you simply want the music you could get it for free. However, money needs to be made and people need a reason to buy it, hence the fancy $300 set which was very limited.

[Stefmanovic]

3) Ok...I don't know that band. But ok, 10 euro ticket, 10 euro cd. How high are their costs? How big is their fanbase? How often do they play? How much music have they brought out? Why should I want to buy it if I could download it for free?

[Commanderloochy]

@Stefmanovic

thats the point, there will always be people like you, i dont mean this in a bad way, who will never pay for their music. but thats ok, the point here is that trent reznor has a found a business model that lets him workaround that, because he can still make money from his loyal/hardcore fans. and thats the point of this presentation, piracy/free music isnt the reason record companies are loosing money

[Stefmanovic]

It is the reason why they are losing money. They are not selling enough because they still use their economic doctrines which are based on pre-internet ideas. Reznor "worked around it" by adapting to the times.

Reznor however acquired those fans through the use of this old business model. New technology can enable things, but not in the same scale as the olden days. At least, not yet...

[Commanderloochy]

@Stefmanovic

Yea Reznor is a little unique because he started off like most other people gaining fans with a traditional record label and did what most other people did at the time. Like you said record companies are loosing money because they aren't adapting,i don't think piracy should take all of the blame. But I would argue that you can gain just as many fans with the use of the internet and still make some money, it gives you a lot more exposure. We're at a transitional time right now.

[StaticPallour]

You are so very wrong, on so many levels. Do your research pal.

You guys need to stop messing with NIN fans. We school you every time.

[spidrmage]

not true about #2. most people bought that package for that price and sold it for thousands more on ebay. a $300 investment is nothing if you're going to make tons of money off it. he should've called that one "connect with fans to make them rich".

[mschallau]

even if that's true it doesn't negate the point, in fact it strengthens it. nin is giving their (his?) fans a reason to buy that is so strong theyll pay thousands for it. but i would really like to see your evidence people paid thousands for them

[spidrmage]

i am only going by what trent reznor said as far as people paying thousands, you can probably find some interviews if you google them or watch the digg interview. apparently they were all over ebay and craigslist as well

[halonone]

Living in America is expensive.

[CoreOfTheSpiral]

Out of the fanbase that Nine Inch Nails have built up over 20 years based on the old business model and major label support, it's not hard for Trent to sell autographs for $300 a time to fans- and good luck to him. But this lecturer is stupid to think that this is a new way for all musicians to make a living- it's a good model for selling autographed stuff if you are famous using free music as a sales tool There's no money to be made from music anymore- the labels know that and so does Trent

[rosemwelch]

And Masnick's Law rears it's ugly head...

[ElPopularVale]

So the music business is moving from the cd and the mp3 download to the deluxe box.

[theillsofmodernman]

Not exactly. They still sell CD, but in an attractive manner to keep the fans interested in buying them. I personally prefer having a physical copy to get the artwork and the booklet.

[MageAtYou]

Very annoying that the text show up just before he speak..

[savioroftehuniverse]

Agreed.

(And this guy is supposed to be smart.)

[MstrSleepMan]

I liked the presentation, but to think what Trent Reznor is doing as a 'business model' sickens me. he's doing it for the fans. sure he has to make a living but if people start to see this as a way to make money and rip off fans then the music industry would end up making the same mistakes as they are right now.

[livefrommemphis]

Dig deeper, the artists that he works with make more money than they would have from any record label even when they give the product away. He's on the right track.

[MageAtYou]

Still, what he said could be what the music industry thinks.

[AtlasTakesAim]

We're finding that it can be incredibly exhausting "connecting with the fans" beyond the normal hanging out after shows & myspace/facebook chatter. Therein lies the difficulty for small bands: without a large budget and dedicated newmedia staff a little three or four piece band is limited by the hours in the day they can dedicate to conceiving and implementing some of the more creative strategems. But I guess we have to do what we can and start somewhere!

[jbphns]

this was very well presented. it is a very quick insight ot the "business model" and creativity the TR outlook to an ever changing industry.

[Affinado]

Tom Ellard from Severed Heads (another legendary industrial band) started with the giveaways mp3's on the Op series, Trent Reznor did good copying him.

Even beyond that, Ellard published the whole band's discography in one single disc, 'Severything'

[DJAttorney]

All this lecture promotes is that successful artists will make more money if they take control of their own careers and vertically control everything, from the copyright to the 'special edition' etc. NIN have their fans already, so yeah, of course they are going make more money selling directly to them, but they got those fans off the back of the old fashioned model.

When a new act breaks through on Creative Commons then I'll review my thoughts...but I won't hold out coz it aint happening yet!

[DJAttorney]

Now I'll come clean. I am a music attorney who also runs a small cutting edge and very artist friendly label in the UK called Pure Mint. We don't have the budgets of the majors so you may not have heard of us but we do a lot of CWF, incl. free music.

Problem with all of this, Radiohead, Reznor, is that they all started on the old fashioned model. TVT records, Interscope (Universal) all ploughed huge amounts of money into launching NIN's careers. EMI did the same with Radiohead.

(cont.)

[mdavidthomson]

I was just on the Pure Mint site and it's not easy to use and I cant stream before I download. It took me a good search before I found mp3s to download. And then it asked for my phone number!!! The NIN site is by contrast consistent, easy and beautiful. I can check out the music in two clicks. CwF is also about the environment, the ease of use. With NIN i never would have listened. But the ghosts artwork intriuged me. before I would never have bought an album. Now I'm going to the O2 gig...

[DJAttorney]

We do need to work on the website and I appreciate your comments- watch this space.

[hallenbeck84]

nothing more to say.

reznor is a living legend.

[borgmi1]

omg i loved this. so fucking true.

[gpicton]

This is awesome

[brianmetcalf]

reznors a fucking genius

[ninetales1234]

This touched my heart.

I very much liked that fact that he said that copyright isn't necessary. I'm glad he said that.

[HollowExplosion]

When the Year Zero cd changed collor, it revealed binary code that when deciphered by whatever you read binary code with, it led to another website

JUST SAYING

[TheBuzzSaw]

No one is suggesting that this was a business model motivated by greed. Reznor has to make money in order to live; he simply came up with a system that makes enough money and BETTER SERVES HIS FANS. What is he supposed to do? Just make music and pray? You are incredibly starstruck to think that Reznor having any kind of business model is some kind of abomination.

[savij824]

Well put. I totally agree.

[HispanicImpression]

And how you generate such a fan base ? Like NIN or Tool - with QUALITY !

As long as music industry exists, quality doesn't count at all, it's all about the image. That's why shit like american idol singer get make it in America and I think that sucks...

[IMakeTheLordNev]

Very nice!

[thesugarpeople]

What does a band do that doesn't have the fan base to start off with? How do you generate a fan base in a society of people skipping through playlists?

[HispanicImpression]

I've heard that a fan base of 1000 people is already enough for an artist to earn as much as an average full time employe in this modell.

And this is doable...

[cheekbrown]

You gotta play gigs, lots of them. The more gigs, the more fans. The old business model practiced by the major labels has us thinking backwards: we want the fans first, then we'll perform for them. No, we perform, we connect with fans, and we BUILD our fan base. When we build our own fan base, the majors cannot take them from us.

[raizumichin]

What about musical genres that's hard to perform live?

[stoogalent]

what musical genre is hard to perform?? give some egs

[gophers43]

interesting video

[Darktenshi90]

This slide show was a very interesting watch, I did not find myself bored, and even the quickly paced slides helped keep my attention. Reznor is my idol and he is indeed leading the way for the music business.

The old way to produce things is severely overrated anyway.

[HispanicImpression]

This should be the future of music culture !

[cell9song]

Go to Techdirt. mike debunks that as well. Its nothing but an excuse due to fear of the unknown. Like it or not the business is changing. Instead of trying to find excuses as to why it WON'T work try sitting down and think of something that does. There is no hardware or software solution to stop illegal downloads and even the best lawyer can;t lock up every pirate on the planet. Time to change or die.

[graceoverdiamonds]

Excellent!

[seanmfournier]

Awesome case study!

This model has worked for my music too :)

[DJSouthernTech]

Realling interesting video, it work's for Trent but a lot of bands without die hard loyalty fans could not do the same thing.

[neagrigore]

do you think that if the album is a piece of crap, I will still buy it, just because I am a "die hard fan"? Guess again.

[gebgdcCDabdabdCBgbgb]

Sure, we're all happy about Record industry suicide (to quote Rob Sheridan), and Trent pioneered circumventing the need for them...but really...CWF?? RTB??? this sounds like an appropriation for big business marketing strategies. I wonder who pays to see this lecture. From what I can find online Midem is big business (CEO's from big companies etc.) isn't there something weird about this ?

[sonianin]

Great presentation! I think that Trent Reznor connects with fans so well because of his talent and I agree with what some people are saying that this model just wouldn't work for a lot of acts (but then if they produce disposable crap then it doesn't disappoint me!). Thanks, I really enjoyed watching this.

[reuber1]

An excellent presentation. Some people here don't quite get it; why "RtB"? That's what the whole thing is based around, the repetition is intentional. The language has to be interpreted somehow to the out of touch businessmen, and I think he executed it perfectly. If you told all of them directly what Reznor did without putting it into a context they understand, you've lost them.

This should be an example that creatives are the people that big businesses should be looking too. In any industry.

[bowiefb]

ya, whatever...Masnick. Devise stupid acronims; package for consumption; sell to stupid old business men; miss the point.

[nininchnails]

i guess stupid is the word in question

[bowiefb]

well, if you mean big business trying to appropriate Trent's foresight and vision, I guess you're right. that's all I meant. Have you seen who attends these conferences?

[Calderon008]

NIN fans are loyal, which is a good thing for Trent. He also doesn't put out shit. This model works for him because of that but I doubt it would work for most acts (fall out boy, good charlotte, britney spears), which just goes to show how "loyal" their fans are....

[Stefmanovic]

That´s where the whole CwF comes in. The artist has to connect with the fans. I doubt that stuff like Britney will fail at that, but they can rely on the ancient business models to keep her around so that´s no real problem. Her product is an expandable product. Most bands need something more sustainable. The model suggested is a more sustainable one.

[thebagmanmiidaj]

And I'd say good riddance to those garbage bands you just listed.

[DesolateMinds]

I have watched & followed his buisness model grow since 92. He is very much a rebel to the corporate fuck ups. He is very smart. And youthful, not old and dumb like everyone currently getting there share of the government bailout.

Go Reznor!

[free1luna]

this Michael Masnick is obsessed with RtB , RtB, RtB, RtB...

[fran86beta]

Powerpoint, Powerpoint, Powerpoint, Powerpoint...

[free1luna]

yeah... disgusting

[Stefmanovic]

Come to any Dutch (probably in the rest of the world as well) university, and the lectures are mostly dominated by powerpoint. Don´t really see the problem here, as long as it gets the message across.

It is kind of bugging that he has a slide for practically every word he says...but yah I guess it keeps people with a low attention span awake! :P

[spoonman23]

Great!!!! Reznor is a fucking genious!

[JessicaSarahS]

Thank you for updating the video with the slide presentation!

[savagestar711]

Great presentation. Every single one of us NIN fans are definitely lucky people!

[Houghage]

the man is a legend in his own right.

it's great to be a nin fan. those that 'just don't get it' .. I pity you.

[nakedandfamous27]

Great presentation Michael! The winds of change are blowing and Trent Reznor is leading the way like a hurricane!

[BenUhl88]

Trent Reznor and NIN fuckin RULES!!