Ten minutes of "Echoes in the Darkness," with Peter Coyote and Željko Ivanek

[Matthewsmollen4]

Bill Bradfield died in prison in 1998.

[Matthewsmollen4]

I've seen pictures of the real Bill Bradfield.

[ShiningxOn]

Oh gosh, I was going to go to this school if I haven't moved. But I still love UMASD <3

[KOHF34]

The banker in real life actually had the opportunity to prevent Reinert from withdrawing any money. Pennsylvania had (and still does) a law at the time barring anyone from withdrawing cash if the bank felt they were being victimized. Even though he warned her, she still withdrew the money.

[Miseria227]

Mr. Valaitis is Mr. Valaitis. I had him for 12th grade English, in 2001, and he was still this kind of naive juvenile guy. If you ask him any questions about the murders, he seems almost proud to have been involved with them, for lack of a better word. He loves talking about it, and always gives you the impression that he knows a lot more than he's telling you.

@cynthiacher Yes, Mr. Valaitis did wear glasses back then. I've seen the yearbook pics to prove it. :)

[jksonny]

The most incredible aspect of this case, IMO, is the enormous gullibility of these supposedly intelligent people - Sue, Vince, Chris, Susan, etc., etc. I have always heard that sociopaths, like Bradfield, have a highly-tuned radar system that identifies easy "marks" and I guess it's true. Too bad.

[KOHF34]

Bradfield is a sociopath. When police flew to Santa Fe to ask for his help with locating the children, he said "I'd like to help, but my first focus is my studies." He carried the truth with him to the grave over where Michael and Karen's remains are. Truly an evil man.

[JustAintthatWay]

1. whatever the IQ # for the highest 1% of the pop is both bradfield's and smith's were higher imo

2. i think both were sociopaths i.e. could inflict pain w/o feeliing guilt

3. i DO think smith offed his own daughter & her junkie husband

4. bradfield had an accomplice

5. i do NOT think smith was involved in the reinert murders

6. if the above 5 pts seem inconsistent you DO NOT understand how

convoluted this case is

7. the only innocents in this case were the reinert kids

[lostcow8]

that guy was my soccer coaches english teacher for 3 years...he graduated the year before all that crazy murder stuff happened...i remember the day he told us the story at practice....he said he was always one of the cool teachers...always helping with college stuff...the world is one unpredictable place isnt it?

[HypnosisFun]

This was not a mini series. At least not when it was filmed. It was filmed as a movie. I was in this movie and have pictures on set of Gary Cole,and pictures with Robert Loggia and Chuck Shamata. I believe I still have a copy of it on VHS

[blackrock26]

@HypnosisFun Actually it aired as a mini-series. It was shown over 2 nights on CBS. The first night was 2 hours and the second night was 3 hours. I think the networks classify anything that is shown in more than one part as a miniseries - whether its as little as 2 parts. It was one of the most riveting (and disturbing) things I had ever seen on TV. Excellent writing and acting. Blind Faith, Fatal Vision and Echoes in the Darkness are 3 excellent miniseries dealing with real events.

[collegeman1988]

I remember seeing part of this miniseries on CBS in 1987. One of the creepiest things about this miniseries was the opening title sequence music.

[pamraymiles]

I imagine the missing hour is commercials

[cynthiacher]

I thought Stockard Channing was a good choice to play Susan Reinert. She's the right physical type and a good actress. But Peter Coyote and Robert Loggia as Bradfield and Jay Smith? Bradfield was a big, burly guy, a former wrestler, a charismatic manipulator; Coyote is skinny and just comes across as neurotic. A very creepy looking actor who is good at playing heavies was needed for Jay Smith; Loggia looks grandfatherly and can't pull off a character that is pure evil.

[themirrorsofmymind]

@cynthiacher No offense to Mr. Coyote but why not just have him wear a sign around his neck that says "I AM WEARING A FAKE BEARD!". It's so awful, even in this short clip of the film, I wonder how the other actors didn't laugh or say "Why are you wearing that 'circus hobo' beard?".

[cynthiacher]

@themirrorsofmymind Well, I guess they had to SOMETHING to make him seem like Bradfield (Bradfield had a beard, but it tended to be quite long and unruly). But even with the beard Coyote is a most unconvincing charismatic sociopath.

[spartn316]

i lived not far from where susan reinert. theres a memorial for the two missing kids

[IrishEyes1989]

I love Stockard Channing, she's one of my favourite actresses, but I can't take her seriously in those massive glasses lol.

[Matthewsmollen4]

@IrishEyes1989 I like her glasses.

[chewbaccagirl]

vince was my 12th grade english teacher...i still remember he had backstreet boys on his ipod

and jay smith was crazy...he was naked in a photo in the 1976 year book at upper merion...i saw it...things were placed strategically to avoid his private areas

[jksonny]

Excellent TV movie and excellent book.

[erichhaag]

indul1 jay smith was convicted of murder...and he was not xonerated he was released from prison due to the fact that the prosecution botched their case and to try smith again would result in "double jeopardy". so he was released.

[scorpietta]

I wish the full movie could be uploaded here, but I will try to get a hold of it, nonetheless.

I read the book several months ago. Was Bradfield a sociopath?

[thetallships]

I don't know for sure, but he probably was.

[ladyvharsen]

Well, I dunno about a specific diagnosis, but he sure exhibited some traits that suggested sociopathy.  Manipulating others, telling different people different stories about the same event, having 3 or 4 'fiancees' at a given time--to him, people were simply a means of getting what he wanted--admiration and money.

I would love the original VHS of this movie--the book by Wambaugh provides an excellent account of the events and all the characters that Bradfield dragged into his selfishness.

[cynthiacher]

If you read Joseph Wambaugh's book "Echoes In The Darkness" (which this mini-series was based on), he states in the book that both Bradfield and Smith were sociopaths, two of a kind. I'd suggest you read the book; it's the best and most accurate account of this very strange murder case.

[scorpietta]

Thanks, I did read that book and couldn't believe that Bradfield was able to manipulate the others. I want to see the movie.

[JustAintthatWay]

@cynthiacher re 'echoes ...' being 'accurate' you do realize the 2 penn state police cops withheld possible exculpatory evidence and the spec prosecutor lied to the jury about the main witness - a convict - not benefitting from his testimony (he was released from prison!) ? 'echoes' is a heckuva read but as far as being accurate not quite was smith creepy? wont argue that did he kill the reinerts? bradfield made smith the perfect fall guy w/ help from penn state cops & a d.a.

[cynthiacher]

@JustAintthatWay I think it's highly likely Smith had something to do with the murders. He and Bradfield really were two of a kind; both sociopathic. And then there was that lady friend of Bradfield's named Rachel; one person described her as being "very, very, very, very strange." I think she may have had a hand in the crimes, too. This is an endlessly facinating case. So many questions unanswered.

[ariamne1]

@JustAintthatWay -- Jay Smith's conviction was overturned on a technicality. The evidence was certainly not exculpatory. Its a shame that there were some irregularities with a state policeman and the prosecutor, but those problems did NOT reveal that Jay Smith was innocent. Read Wambaugh's book again, and read SMith's lawyer, William Costopolous's book. Wambaugh's is far more convincing. And where is Jay Smith's daughter and son in law? Reinert's family was terrified when he was freed.

[JustAintthatWay]

@ariamne1 hi hope we can disagree w/o being disagreeable ... your 'technicality' seems somewhat dismissive should ever i be on trial i sure as hell dont want the govt witholding ANY evidence sand between ms reinert's' toes was huge re wambaugh's book one of the most riveting ive ever read unfortunately he bought off the cops game over justice-wise guilty or not smith HAD to walk fwiw imo bradfield did it w/ his lover's help smith a near perfect fall guy

[ladyvharsen]

@scorpietta well, I'm no m.d., but if he wasn't a sociopath, he missed a damned good chance. Segregating and manipulating people for his own gain; two hallmarks of a sociopath--prolly narcissistic personality disorder.

[scorpietta]

@ladyvharsen Yeah, there was some personality disorder there. I hate to pass judgement, but I can't believe how these folks allowed themselves to be so manipulated.

[cynthiacher]

@scorpietta Yes, he was. So way Jay Smith. They were drawn to each other for that reason.

[scorpietta]

@cynthiacher Disturbing, but wasn't Smith eventually exonerated?

Were the remains his daughter and son-in-law ever recovered?

[cynthiacher]

@scorpietta No, Smith was never exonerated. He was released due to a legal technicality. His daughter and son-in-law were never seen or heard from again. Their remains have never been found. It was the same for Michael and Karen Reinert. They disappeared, and were eventually declared dead. Their bodies were never found.

[LovelornSong]

aww Zeljko looks so nerdy/adorable.

[Indul1]

They showed this in Summer 1989 on the BBC, awesome...but the real story was bullshit...jay Smith was innocent

[cynthiacher]

Smith was NOT innocent. He was guilty. He got released on a technicality, but that didn't exonerate him. Jay Smith was one of the most insane, repulsive criminals I ever heard of.

[ariamne1]

@Indul1 Wrong. He was guilty. Why was Karen Reinert's class pin in his car? Why were the fibers from his carpet (only 7% of carpets in US at that time had that type of fiber) found on Susan's body? Why was a hair that matched Susan's found in his basement? He was released because of a technicality not because anyone proved his innocence. The man did it. You did not know people who knew him, I lived there for years, and what people have seen. His own wife believed he killed his daughter!

[snoochy2]

THanks for replying.

[snoochy2]

Did Bradfield cover Vince's mouth before or after the family was killed? Poor Vince.

[thetallships]

Before, I think-- there's the Christmas scene right after.

[MariluPiton]

Poor Zeljko! These glasses were terrible!

[cynthiacher]

I don't think the character he played actually WORE glasses. Maybe they had the character wear glasses to make him look more vunerable.

[Monamondieu]

Great to see a short clip of this from a Stockard Channing fan! I've never seen any of this so thank you very much. Bit unsure about the big glasses though...

[BettyHuttonFan]

Haha! The glasses were a bit much! :D LOL!

[cynthiacher]

Channing played the lovesick, dopey Susan Reinert, who ended up getting herself and her children murdered. Reinert DID wear big, oversized glasses which made her look even homelier. The most widely seen photograph of Reinert shows her wearing her big glasses.

[Monamondieu]

@cynthiacher

Fair enough, I guess they're being true to the character. Very bizarre look though! Thanks for the info... Not sure I wanna see Stockard get brutally murdered though. :(

[thetallships]

@Monamondieu The murder isn't shown. I don't think you even see any bodies, I think they just do reaction shots. but it's been a while since I watched the film. it's not a gruesome film at all in terms of blood/violence.

[beautifullion69]

i have the vhs and it says it's 234mins.

[thetallships]

Huh. I know the DVD is legitimate, and I'm pretty sure I didn't skip anything by accident...weird. Maybe it's to do with the space on a DVD...they should have just made it a 2-disc set if that was the issue!