BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | James Kwak and Simon Johnson Pt 2 | PBS

[aseohosting]

thanks :D

[tbpmom]

So sorry that you will no longer be on after this week. :(

[voyeurdug]

Per the retrospective to last week's show and the assertion that Iraq/Afghanistan is our nation's longest war... keep in mind that I/A has been going on a scant nine years, whereas Vietnam spanned 1955-1974,

There are parallels aplenty between the two wars, which should be foremost in the minds of all concerned, especially voters/taxpayers. But in time so far, and the magnitude of blood and treasure expended for nought... it's not within spitting distance of Vietnam yet... and never should be.

[angryliberal1984]

@voyeurdug I think you're right, but we were not involved in Vietnam at the same level from 55 to 74. The presence was heavy only for around 5-7 years in the middle. But the point remains the same - let's not let this thing get out of our control.

[TheGiantRobot]

Bill Moyers has some of the most honest, insightful interviews I've ever seen. The rest of PBS should look to him to see how it's done.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : how is this anything close to being honest or insightful? Hindsight is 20/20 - these never understand the state of economy or the financial before the crisis. One small segment of economists who foresaw this crisis are free-market economists, who also advised that the country would had to suck it up and liquidate bad banks.

Moyer apparently cherrypicked two Keynesian (pro-gov't, pro-bailout) technorats who support his existing bias/political views.

[TheGiantRobot]

@tooltalk

Why do you think regulations to prevent these actions were created? Because we already knew. It was special interests who tore them down to allow these abuses.

Bill Moyers' integrity shows in who he chooses to interview - non partisan, interested people who care about the general population. Pro-bailout? These guys both proposed small banking interests to prevent the need for, and call for, bail outs.

Pro government? Meaning, what? You don't want a U.S. government or regulation?

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : firstly, Bill Moyer's is anything, but non partisan. In fact, he's a LBJ liberal, probably the worst kind of liberals besides neocons.

Why do you think Chris Dodd's regulation is going to fix th problem (I am not obviously read 2000+ page proposal)? What do you exactly think what caused the crisis and how this bill would prevent another housing bubble? In another word, these guys start with a fallacious assumption that the crisis was caused by banks and their speculative CDO's.

[TheGiantRobot]

@tooltalk

I didn't say Chris Dodd's regulation was going to fix the problem. It's not nearly strong enough. Conservatives ripped out the very little strength that was in it to begin with. People like Chris Dodd are trying to keep real legislation from happening, to placate his greedy masters.

For one thing, we need to reinstate the second Glass-Steagall act . You can read up on it. You'd like it, it was very 20/20 hindsight. It takes a "conservative" to discard lessons of perfect hindsight.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : completely *untrue*. A certainly a tragic decade caused by the asset bubbles of the late 20's (yes, the Fed's low interest policy to help Brits get back on gold standard). Liberal economists like Johnson would never cite the 1921 depression in which bad assets were liquidated and suffered much severe depress in the first year. Unlike the Great Depression, the 1921 without any gov't interventioned ended a bit more than a year after it'd started.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : hm.. I think I overestimated PBS viewers' intelligent. Firstly, while economists still debates the role of the GS repeal, what is clear is that Glass Steagall had little to do with the subprime crisis. For one, the goal of the act was to separate which institutions can issue securities (investment banks) and which can make loans (consumer banks). By the time th act was repeal, through many decades of amendment and various financial innovations, the act became more or less

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : obsolete - banks can technically do what investment banks do, they don't do it, b/c they don't have the kind of expertise.

So if you look at the failed banks in the last two years, there are either just plain consumer banks (eg, Wachovia and small regional banks), investment banks (Bear, Lehman), or insurance co (eg, AIG). In another word, most banks stayed in their field of specialty, even after the repeal. The only exception is Citibank - though didn't quite collapse like

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot ; AIG or Lehman.

I'm not surprised that you are expressing such an uninformed view - after all, PBS, is an echo chamber for liberals where they pet each other and reinforce their group-think. It's not at all surprising that he invited these guests who also subscribe to his belief of human shortcoming, not gov't ineptitude / bad policies encouraged speculative behaviors among bankers and home buyers.

[TheGiantRobot]

@tooltalk

Echo chamber? You are your own echo chamber. Keep on rambling. We're all impressed.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : As destructive as these CDO's and other financial instruments maybe, the bubble was fueled by teaser-rate mortgage - low-interest loans only possible b/c of the Fed's low-interest rate and politician's delusional promise to guarantee housing for everyone. In another word, it's Congress's policy and their political unwillingness to rein on Fannie & Freddie and the Federal Reserve Banks' ineptness. No regulations can compensate for bad policies.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : Moyer's attack on McConnell is very misleading as well. The reform bill is written and heaviliy influenced by Chris Dodd, whose integrity has come under question (AIG, Countrywide). The attack on McConnell's meeting with banks special interest is a complete strawman, red-herring.

Furthermore, Johnson's argument that there would have been another great depression is completely true. They often remind us that there would be another *Great Depression* - that tragic decade in

[TheGiantRobot]

@tooltalk

See, when you want to criticize Chris Dodd, I can get on your side. For you to then excuse McConnel like that just shows you are the partisan one. What a complete joke.

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : yeah, but McConnell isn't the one writing the bill. And like I said, his concerns are legitimate. The issue of setting up a bailout fund - now making it a *explicit* bailout has been on discussion both among economists for decades. The institutions like the Fed, FDIC, Freddie, and Fanny, they all create bad incentive for banks and consumers alike to behave bad.

The reform bill furthermore instead of increasing disclosure and monitoring the Fed, gives them more power, despite

[tooltalk]

@TheGiantRobot : their low-interest rate played a crucial role in creating various forms of low-interest morgages that fueled the housing bubble. The market rate would have been much higher without the Fed artificially manipulating the cost of borrowing. The Fed and the banking industry have hired former Enron lobbyists to push for this kind of legislation since last year.

Moyer and most liberal economists don't want to address that issue, but they are instead attacking the questioner.

[Licmycat]

I put like, but I don't like the rich crooks, including the false prophets; the big priests and preachers. They are not only corrupt but satanic....and they are IN the middle of the rich men stealing.

[RobSkillz59]

4:45 is that a flip mounted on the photographer's hot shoe?

[TheVMFA333]

its a loan not a bailout