@TheHungrySnail Yeah that'll get u off the hook, right? ;) U won't have to do any explaining on why the existence of a 1st phase and 3rd phase somehow disproves CD. Nicely done.
Instead u just gave me a few links to bullshit Blanchard & wicked idiot Mark Roberts. I have read their BS already, and concluded it is indeed that, bullshit, especially Blanchard.
So u've managed to evade all the important stuff, congrats on that, now let's quickly shut this thing down, OK? Sleep tight!
@TheHungrySnail Other than that, it's my humble opinion that for a steel skyscraper to fall into itself requires a lot of precision. It requires even more precision to completely destroy itself.
No random "natural" event is going to produce such a neat and total collapse of such a huge steel structure. It never has, and very probably never will.
U're forgetting by the way that NIST had to be forced to admit the existence of freefall, for they had omitted that fact from their initial draft.
@TheHungrySnail Could u elaborate a bit on the part where u claim that the existence of the 1st & 3rd stage somehow disproves controlled demolition? Thanx in advance.
Now, since u fail to appreciate the grave consequences of the existence of freefall at WTC7's collapse, I think it's rather useless to continue this.
It's not that hard though, to grasp, one would think.
Had it really been a natural occuring event, we would've seen gradual deformations & partial collapses, if at all any.
@TheHungrySnail I told u where to go, I assume u're able to punch in "NIST Final Report on the Collapse etc." when doing a google search. U pick out the link from NIST, go to the PDF-file and then go to page 44. Think u can achieve this outrageous effort?
The reason why I'm using the info from NIST itself is because it's fairly easy to expose all the fraudulent science that they did. The fact u're not even aware of this fact that NIST has admitted freefall tells a big story. It's tough aint it?
@TheHungrySnail Dude, it's in the Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, chapter 3.6, page 44. NIST defines Stage 2 with the north face descending at gravitational acceleration.
Now, slowly get to grips with this, OK?
Go look it up, then wonder why NIST doesn't recognize the obvious implications of it.
@TheHungrySnail U know, u sure sound like a bit of a dumbass.
U're pretending there's no evidence for everything I've said. U don't seem to understand what constitutes evidence in this case.
YOU claim the facade fell close to freefall, that is not a fact, I don't know where u got that from. The whole bldg minus the mech. penthouse & everything underneath it, fell AT freefall for 100 ft. That is a fact that is acknowledged by NIST, only YOU do not seem to be aware of it. Denial is all u have
@TheHungrySnail @ last, the information of the 2.25 sec. of freefall that occured is in the revised version of the NIST report on WTC7, after they forgot to mention it in their initial version. Kinda odd that NIST missed that crucial phenomenon, wouldn't u say? But have a go at explaining freefall without the additional input of energy provided by explosives and/or incendiaries.
And what does linking eachother to a peerreviewed paper have to do with the application of the scientific method?
@TheHungrySnail And since there were audible explosions aside from the fact that nanothermitic charges can be engineered to make very little sound, I won't acknowledge that I haven't been able to explain why there were no explosions. I'm not saying it's a fact that thermite cutters were used, but that it's a possibility that they were used. It does not change the fact that B7's collapse started suddenly, proceeded symmetrically, and ended up a total collapse at near freefall acc., does it?
No I dont'think nanothermitic materials were put in cars.
But perhaps these cars were burned so badly because they were hit with molten iron from thermitic reactions that were taking place during the collapses.
Perhaps YOU've got better ideas that also make sense?
@Sandberg1972 The cars are a result of radiation and there were mushroom clouds above the towers. Steven E Jones is the shill that keeps the truth movement from the real truth. Nuclear demolition
@TheHungrySnail Like I said, u're either playing dumb or u are severely trying to evade the subject. This is detective 101. The government destroying & witholding evidence proves at least it's got something to hide. One can of course assume it'll be incompetence, but I think that wouldn't be wise, considering the track record of the US government. And of course, there are many instances of government destruction & witholding of crucial evidence in the case of 9/11. What would that implicate?
@TheHungrySnail It's the Standard Operating Procedure to test 4 explosives in cases like this. & yes NIST is guilty of committing scientific fraud. But u obviously haven't recognized this from what I've read from u thusfar.
U shouldn't behave like some dumbass who pretends 2 know so little. It seems u don't know that much about the scientific method & how it applies.
U can try 2 dodge the fact that freefall occured for 2.25 secs, it won't make it go away & neither will the implications of it.
@TheHungrySnail The rubble by the way, was not searche for remnants of explosives, neither was the dust, u know that, NIST has admitted that in public, so what u should do is focus ur attention on NIST, and why they refused to test for explosives, while the NFPA921 guideline tells them to do so.
And if u're gonna claim that the collapse of WTC7 was not symmetrical, I can give u a shitload of examples of known CD's that were not 100% symmetrical as well.
@TheHungrySnail Look I've seen the whole episode, he does not get asked one single question on how a large steelframed builing could fail in a CD-like fashion without it actually being a CD. I must admit, Gage's assertion is rather stupid and he shouldn't get into speculation on this. He should concentrate on the mode of failure, whch is rapid sudden symmetrical and total.
And please do not bring up the miles of detcord, RC-detonators have been around for many years. .
@TheHungrySnail Well well, someone defending mr. Loizeaux' comments. Yeah of course 4 min. is too short to ask anything about 1 of the most obvious smoking guns of 9/11.
Ur last sentence is just too good, so good that I'd like you 2 explain it a little more. Please tell me how YOU think WTC7 woul fall if explosives were used.
Also if u could tell me how the failure of ONE column could lead to the simultaneous total loss of every remaining steel column, that would nice, because NIST did not.
And lets not even get started on the ridiculous notion that a jetliner crashed into the Pentagon
(Oh sorry!! What was that you said??)
watch?v=f0vxc50xAbk
This guy is lying is he? Last time a jet went over my head at tree top level (Which they can do at our airport viewing area). I didn't have any trouble making out what it was.
You don't bait and switch when you don't hear what you want to hear dude. You don't post all this rubbish about CD. Then have me blow it to hell with a few rational credible posts by people like the head of the Seismology lab in NY.
And then come back at me accusing me of not having integrity or supporting the murderers blah blah..
The goal posts are not continually moved at will here.
@azar783402 These buildings were demolished by a CD were they? As you say.
For one thing explosives would be required for that. Powerful explosives. They WOULD register on a seismograph. They don't
Direct quote from Seismology station.
"There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers. That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context." Arthur Lerner-Lam, seismologist at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory.
@puppetmaster195 Thermite does not blow cement to smithereens. Nano thermite doesn't do it either. Explosives don't blow cement to smithereens. You don't prep a building for CD in 2 days so of what significance is this "Open door" story? I'll tell you. NONE.
Time to strap on the common sense hat. And it is not a matter of over looking things. Its about rational common sense.
You're logic has the building set up for a CD with a door open and 2 days prep time.
@puppetmaster195 LOL. A bunch of urban myth nonsense. The port authority run the towers and provide security. In addition, independent tenants provide their own security as well. Cantor Fitzgerald etc (Which lost some 600 people). They don't simply close the doors and go home and many of those guys go 24/7. Get real. And stop trying to float such patently ridiculous stories here. You're not fooling anyone.
Except maybe you and your tag team brain addled brothers.
@puppetmaster195 seem to view us as crazy, since we have questions about 911.
Its perfectly alright to have questions. But understanding the questions you ask is another thing. If you are completely ignorant and have no knowledge about what you ask what is your frame of reference or knowledge base for the answer.? In your guys case NONE. Because you don't KNOW what you are talking about.
@azar783402 Nobody has ever tested your "molten" metal. So saying it is metal is not accurate. What is far more likely is that it is molten aluminum of some kind. Explosives don't turn buildings to dust. The 93 truck bomb was an incredibly powerful blast with a blast over pressure of nearly 100,000 PSI. As powerful a conventional explosive as you're going to get. None of the concrete was rendered in to dust.
The buildings were NOT CD. You are seriously mistaken.
@azar783402 Why is so hard for you to understand that they weren't. How do blow buildings to bits (if that is what you claim.. not me) And not one iota of anything pointing to that was found? You can't have one without the other.
And no, they do not resemble a CD at all. You simply don't understand this subject and it is quite clear.
@puppetmaster195 And as usual you don't pay much attention to much do you? You can view the entire area where the plane hit. About 3 or 4 levels of floors have just about every window blown out across this area. There is nothing happening to these columns other than warping and eventual failure.. and collapse. There is no gigantic thermite reactions happening to them. And if you think there is you're on glue.
What just plowed in to the building? 155 feet of aluminum. Get real.
@puppetmaster195 Thermite huh? Ok then. There are close videos of the WTC collapsing. Isolated on exactly where it keels over and drops. Specifically WTC 2. We are talking about a substance that produces a MASSIVE amount of plasma energy. So bright that it is drifting in to the ultra violet spectrum. (Like a welders flame... you need to be wearing goggles to look at it etc).
The WTC is splayed wide open on 3 floors. Show me this reaction happening on ANY of the columns!!
@puppetmaster195 Care to explain a team of CD experts already on scene when 7 came down? (Just slightly absurd). Care to explain absolutely nothing being found supporting a CD. Teams of trained people were at all 3 buildings. CD's have LOTS of debris. Nobody found even a single blast cap or piece of shock tube. You can't keep going on and that these buildings were blown to smithereens and have nothing there.
And once again don't scream thermite. It is not a material used in CD.
@puppetmaster195 No dude. But it comes down to LOGIC!! Common sense!! We are talking about high explosives here. This is not something that a couple of people are going to hear and the rest of the group around the corner are not. So ridiculous it verges on the absurd.
This is not a subtle event in anyway shape or form. Its not going to take place and one guy is going to hear it. Had it REALLY happened believe me everyone within a half a mile would know about it. Entirely.
@puppetmaster195 Heard xplosions? Where? Show me one video of one. (There are half a dozen). You won't because they don't exist. And I know what this sounds like. Show me one.. Frank Pappalia heard nothing. Dan Nigro heard nothing. A team of CD techs were there.. Les Robertson had nothing to do with the fuel thing. It was the technology of the time that was lacking.
@puppetmaster195 Right. Because they are credible people. When you hurl people like this under the bus just so your silly theories have a leg to stand on... you need to start questioning your reasoning skills.
Which went out the window when you lot dreamed up this shit ages ago.
I am smart, I am logical... VERY!! I am not the crazy one in this argument i can assure you.
@puppetmaster195 You're a one act pony dude. All you cite.. all you reference is this endless.. "OFFICIAL STORY" ... OFFICIAL STORY. Crap over and over. Like it is a report issued by one guy sitting at a desk. It is a HUGE group of highly educated people. You're use of Logic is non existent. All of you dudes i converse with on here are no different.
Like having a team of CD techs at B7 while it collapses???
Just a little bit significant!!!.. Just a little!!
@azar783402 There were MANY companies involved in the clean up. Not just CD Inc. The steel from the buildings got identified down to the floors it came from. Even isolating steel from the impact floors.
Spewing more bullshit i see!!! You need to take a look in the mirror before you start accusing others. You're guilty of spewing the constant lies of the "TM"..
@azar783402 We were not given any time to ask how this happened, as the official explanation was already at hand to provide a narrative for the broadcast images
????? You need an explanation to know what took place that day? Are you an idiot or something? An event that was photographed from virtually every conceivable angle? On Live television? What kind of an idiot needs to have his hand held and TOLD what took place. ???
@azar783402 but we see nothing but dust as these buildings are coming down!
You bet you do!! And explosives don't pulverize concrete to powder. Never have.. Never will. But massive amounts of weight sure as hell do. Put a billiard ball in a hydraulic press. What results?? Powder. No different to what happened at WTC. Its not explosives. its WEIGHT.
@azar783402 You don't understand how the loads are carried in the building. The floors do not hold vertical loads. They have a load limit of about 1500 tons. What do you think the result is going to be when 14 stories lands on that?
And we already have the SE Les Robertson saying " there is no way one floor is going to hold the weight of 14 or more stories falling on it. Not possible. It would collapse instantly."
What part of that don't you get? Its fairly basic.
@MrGman8161 LOL. You also might like to continue with that thread and exactly what Wally Miller said. There were no INTACT bodies there. What do you expect when a plane hits the ground at a perpendicular angle at 560mph. They'd be scraping up jello of human remains.
I get more than sick and tired of the cherry picked quotes that get tossed around on this subject.
Wake up and don't be so stupid. You don't fool anyone.
@puppetmaster195 Ignorance is a choice, illiteracy is not. I feel bad for all the people who want to learn but can't. It's sad to see that ignoramous, like the debunkers, are spreading ignorance
You guys are so out to lunch on this but what is the truly sad part is that you THINK you know what you're talking about and it makes you twice as ignorant.
@azar783402 Yes, these trolls like nothing more than to waste as most of ur time as possible. It's the usual modus operandi, keep coming back with the same lame arguments and lies while deliberately ignoring the facts and evidence that are out there in the public domain.
I used to fall for it, but nowadays I usually keep it down to a few knockouts before I'm off again to more important things.
These trolls have all the time in the world it seems. I really feel 4 these people u know, kinda sad
@Sandberg1972 Waking people up to what? A building that has no evidence of anything pointing to a CD? Nothing was found. Trained people were at all 3 collapses. Trained people watched 7 collapse.
You're trying to say that trained people are not going to recognize a CD while they walk upon it? While they watch it?
Completely ridiculous stuff you are talking about here.
You might want to reconsider that "Purposely Ignorant" comment. It applies to you entirely.
@Sandberg1972 Like to see ur explanation also for the extreme temperatures in the debrispile that lasted for more than 8 weeks.
Yeah.. and what of it? There is no chemical that reacts for a week at a time. And there is no chain of command for this "METAL" you guys keep going on about. For all you know its aluminum. Makes a little more sense.
As i said you seem hell bent on shoving any evidence you can in to fit your theories while turning away from stuff that doesn't.
@puppetmaster195 She is a block away from it. The building falls while she is on air. And I've been thru this nonsense with you lot a 1000x times. Is your witness lying? No. Did he hear timed shaped charges? That's another matter entirely.
There are half a dozen videos of 7 coming down. One taken by a couple of dudes on their balcony.
This is what shaped charges sound like in a downtown setting.
@puppetmaster195 Well shit. He should have talked to Ashley Banfield of CNN. She is on air live reporting that 7 is the next.. (Key word.. NEXT) building to collapse. Ashley is now a psychic is she? Dude.. 100 firemen knew 7 was coming down.
And the witness heard booms did he? Interesting, because Frank Pappalia of the FDNY stated he heard nothing.
I can assure you, having experienced it myself, there is NO WAY one person is going to hear this and another not
@alexjones67 We don't believe that 19 hijakcers alone caused all of this destruction and death!!
Why? !!! NORAD's fighter pilots had no idea where the hijacked plane was (look it up!!) Yes the military regularly intercept planes that's true. But the conditions of those intercepts are NORMAL. That being OPERATIONAL TRANSPONDERS. By the time A 11 hit the WTC the fighter pilots were sitting at a radar screen trying to locate it.
@azar783402 LOL. BTW.. I do think for myself. Observation has nothing to do with a Government story. Don't be an idiot. This (Video) is plainly available to anyone. The rest is common sense and logic.
Ever stop to consider WHY the first tower is the second to collapse? Or the Second tower hit is the FIRST to collapse? There is a reason. And it has NOTHING what so ever to do with being spoon fed an "Official Story"..
@azar783402 Right. And where does it fail from? Precisely where the plane hit it. The building was hit almost dead on.. And Ooooooh. It collapses almost squarely entirely consistent with HOW it was hit. The second building WTC 2. Has 2x as much weight above the impact area. But...Ooooooooh.. It fails FIRST!!.. Why?? Because the structure cant maintain this larger load (They're identical buildings!!). It even falls TOWARD the side of the plane damage.
Run a commercial airliner in to it at full power then i might be interested in what you have to say. Comparing Sept 11th to any other event is a useless exercise. There is NO PRECEDENT in any way shape or form to anything else. You can't extrapolate XYZ building collapse to Sept 11th. There is no point.
And Thermite is not a substance that any professional would EVER use for a CD.
@azar783402 Don't be an idiot!! living in a cave has nothing to do with running a knife up someone's throat. Of which I am sure it makes one QUITE proficient at. And the hijackers were anything but guys who lived in caves. Boston is 21 minutes flying time to NY. There is a reason it was chosen as the departure point. Speed and surprise were on their side. Before anyone figured out what the problem was they were at the targets.
@roquefortfiles If u have experience with CD, if u know what it takes to bring a large building down in symmetrical fashion, then u shouldn't have any problem recognizing that WTC7 was indeed a well executed CD. Right?
Look at Mark Loizeaux and tell me where he addresses the way B7 fell down. He does not address it anywhere. Does he address the use of thermitecuttercharges to cut steel columns? No he does not.
Just give it up, no one is falling for ur bullshit coffeehouse crap.
@Sandberg1972 If u have experience with CD, if u know what it takes to bring a large building down in symmetrical fashion, then u shouldn't have any problem recognizing that WTC7 was indeed a well executed CD. Right?
No.
Show me the charges going off. (there are none). Show me the debris afterward. (This material is very plentiful and it doesn't magically clean itself up). No one found a thing. A team of CD techs were already there when it went off.
@roquefortfiles One more time then, if u know anything about CD's, u know that there's only one way to bring large steel structures down in a sudden symmetrical fashion, into it's own footprint.
Look idiot, u can talk about ur stupid charges going off, u can talk about blastcaps and detcord that was supposed to be found (no one was looking for them anyway) all day long, it's not gonna change the fact how it came down and that B7 was experiencing freefall for a 2.25 second period.
@Sandberg1972 So you're going to tell me a team of CD techs standing there watching this (which they were) suddenly forget everything about their profession? have no clue what they are looking at? A "CD" happens in front of their face and not one of them go...."Hmmm that was curious".
Absurd!!
You might want to check out the NIST simulation running along side the ACTUAL footage of 7. They match up perfectly. The interior of the building was collapsing LONG before it fell.
@Sandberg1972 Dude. I have been there with this i know what its like in person. Had any of these structures been CD's TRUST ME.. Everyone in lower Manhattan would be completely aware of this. Every single camera shooting this within a mile radius would be overflowing with audio of it. GET REAL!! You don't have a structure "alleged" to be taken down in a CD and have that happen in silence (Which it does!!).
Totally totally ridiculous!! And there is NO getting around that. Nonsense!
Plenty of witnesses also that claim that B7 wasn't so silent as well. What do u expect from a collapsing 47-story skyscraper? Total silence? How much more ridiculous are u gonna get?
So, address the nanoenergetics from LLNL and Los Alamos for a change. Make urself useful. CD-techniques evolve too u know. RC detonation, more advanced explosives, taylormade explosives etc etc.
@Sandberg1972 As i said earlier, if you think you have run across someone who isn't up on their subject. You're mistaken.
WTC 1 and 2 were anything but silent "collapses".
(Bullshit!!) I have plotted WTC collapse video taken from multitudes of locations around NY. For one thing ABC news shoots from 800 feet away. They record nothing. (and I am talking charges.. not the SOUND of collapse).. A CD? 800 feet away?
So ridiculous and absurd its not worth a remark. Not possible dude.
@Sandberg1972 Plenty of witnesses that claim the building was not silent? I completely agree. Steel columns snapping? Bolts being snapped off with tremendous force? Absolutely!!.
Timed explosive charges going off? No way!! (Been there and i know what this is like in person and recorded on professional News camera gear no different to what ABC news would have had.
Its not possible to have explosives go off and cameras 800 feet from this record nothing. No way!! Not happening.
@roquefortfiles U can evade the subject of nanoenergetics all u want, it won't make it go away.
U can talk shit about ur conventional explosives that can be heard far away all day long, fact is that there was a roaring shitload of sound during the demolition of both towers (not to mention the vibrations before onset of demolition).
U can evade the freefall acceleration of B7 for all u like, it won't make it go away.
@Sandberg1972 Nanoenergetics? LOL. Pull out the yellow pages and call up a demolition company and ask them yourself. Tell them you would like them to use Thermite for a 25 story office implosion. Then wait for the laughter to start,.. because that's what you'd get.
Shitload of sound? LOL. WTC 2 drops out of QUIET on cameraplanet video.
CD? Absolutely absurd
The only shame here is the complete lack of understanding in what you are talking about.
@Sandberg1972 U can talk shit about ur conventional explosives that can be heard far away all day long, fact is that there was a roaring shitload of sound during the demolition of both towers.
Show me one!! There were.........? HOW MANY videos of the WTC? Over 20 different angles of this. More than you could possibly need. A zillion angles of these structures burning and collapsing
Show me ONE with audio like below. You won't. Doesn't exist
@Sandberg1972 You don't even seem to follow your own logic.. Or lack thereof. Had any of these structures been CD. There would material of that there. And no matter how many ways you want to slice your silly theories.. DEBRIS would BE THERE!!. Explosives remote or wired... Would be there. Radio receivers .. Would be there. Columns blown apart ... Would be there. Evidence of this.. Would be there. It doesn't all magically clean itself up.
@Sandberg1972 You don't even seem to follow your own logic.. Or lack thereof. Had any of these structures been CD. There would material of that there. And no matter how many ways you want to slice your silly theories.. DEBRIS would BE THERE!!. Explosives remote or wired... Would be there. Radio receivers .. Would be there. Columns blown apart ... Would be there. Evidence of this.. Would be there. It doesn't all magically clean itself up.
@roquefortfiles Exactly who are you to have any authority to say what would and what wouldn't be there in the debrispile? Columns blown? Sure, plenty of them, easy to pile up on trucks to be removed (without ever being investigated, about 99,3 % of it). Dust? Wasn't investigated by NIST. Ever heard of selfconsuming detonators? Ever heard of Tom Sullivan, former CDI explosives loader? Nanoenergetics aren't used by conventional democompanies dipshit, but u would be too dumb to get this, right?
@Sandberg1972 Ever heard of selfconsuming detonators?.
Give me break!! You're so ridiculous it is beyond the pale. A CD has so much debris left afterwards that companies have to clean this stuff up. It is EVERYWHERE. Claiming a building is going to be dropped in this manner and teams of CD specialists are not going to know what they are looking at is ABSURD!!!. Totally absurd. And saying... "They weren't looking for it".. is a lame cop out.
@Sandberg1972 u know that there's only one way to bring large steel structures down in a sudden symmetrical fashion, into it's own footprint.
The mistake you make is that you speak in absolutes. You are locked in to one way of thinking and you are going to do your damnedest to shove the evidence in to that ONE hole you have carved out... no matter what. If the internal supports of the structure are failing all across the building...........It has nothing to support it
@roquefortfiles Yeah freefall accdeleration is pretty absolute dude. There's no way around that, so u can flush ur pathetic soundargument through to toilet.
U obviously know very little about CD's. And I guess Tom Sullivan must be nuts, right?
And I'm wondering about the fact that so many people have not even heard about a thing called B7. They don't know what it is and what happened to it on 9/11. Surely u have a good logical reason for it that it wasn't shown again after 9/11 4 many years.
@Sandberg1972 Does he address the use of thermitecuttercharges to cut steel columns? No he does not.
Yeah.LOL. Because he is EDUCATED and knows what he is talking about. There is no one on the planet with expertise in CD who would ever bother to use THERMITE...or Nanothermite...or fucking Marmite to take down a building. You use HIGH EXPLOSIVES for this... PERIOD!!
When are you nuts going to get that through your head? Its not used for CD. I am not the crazy one here i can assure you.
@roquefortfiles "Its not used for CD. I am not the crazy one here i can assure you."
Why don't u talk to the people at Lawrence Livermore Nat. Lab. or Los Alamos? They can tell u all about the properties of nanoenergetics and what it can and cannot do.
@azar783402 LOL. The fire simply weakens the structure to failure point. The building takes care of turning it to dust.. Dude.
Read a good paper on the WTC recently. Are you aware this structure (WTC 2) was in fact failing as soon as the plane hit it? The structure was tilting 1 degree an hour but it was so small a tilt it was virtually imperceptible. Those columns going out of alignment.. (and we know they were!!) finally reached the breaking point and snapped.
@roquefortfiles Yeah it "simply" weakened the structure to failure point. Sure buddy, of course it did. It had done so before, right? Uhhhhh, no actually. Wait a minute here....
Let's see, tilting 1 degree an hour, OK. But it was only burning for one whole hour, so we have 1 single degree of going out of alignment. Apparently that was enough for each and every steel column 2 suddenly give way.
Lemme ask u something: are u stupid, high, doped out or something?
@alexjones67 So. !! The building is about 90% air. What you have taking place here is no different to a gigantic pneumatic ram in action. Basically a huge piston. But instead of holding together this compression is being shoved out areas of least resistance. Case in point.
Take a square milk carton. Stamp on it. Notice where it comes apart just about every time. The bottom corner usually blows out.
This is what you have going on at the WTC only 110 stories of it.
Go entertain some goofballs with ur absurd fantasies and analogies dude.
Don't u know any shame?
A piston stays in line because it's inside a cilinder, so there goes ur stupid comparison right off the bat.
Never mind the fact that the toppart is supposed to stay intact with this theory, so there it goes again, ur pretty stupid theory. But keep 'm coming by all means, discredit urself all u want, I love it.
@Sandberg1972 LOL.. (are you for real?) Of course it is EXACTLY like a piston. It has also been described in exactly the same manner by a number of highly educated people..
Shove it dude!! I am so sick of the sanctimonious righteousness with which you lot discuss this topic.
Yes the piston stays in line because its in a cylinder.... OBVIOUSLY. Its the analogy we are talking about here.
There is a tremendous amount of air in the building being COMPRESSED. Any idiot knows this.
@roquefortfiles Words cannot even begin to describe how misplaced this piston-analogy is. U wanna compare the upper part to a piston? What force will keep the piston in line, what force will make sure it will not topple over? How credible is it to expect that, given that it's supposed to be a "natural" collapse, it will not topple? What do ur "experts" say on this particular matter?
I guess nothing huh?
The toppart has the same footprint as the lower part, therefore it cannot act like a piston.
@Sandberg1972 Topple? We are not talking about a set of tinker toy blocks here dude. The gravity loads in a structure like this are all directed straight down. The building is 90% air. There is plenty of space for it to go through itself. And we are not talking a "LITERAL" piston. Its called an analogy. (Meaning LIKE!!!). You have a huge amount of air in this building. A descending 1/3 of it compressing that air.
@Sandberg1972 Ignored from now on? You mean like i won't have to deal with your stupid posts anymore? Well i am all broken up about that.
How much of an idiot do you have to be to see this building collapse (Which is like 90% air inside) and see stuff shoved out the windows below the collapse front and somehow have difficulty understanding that it is acting like a giant pneumatic ram??
What experiment needs to prove this? You can see it.
@Sandberg1972 And another thing. The firemen who survived on the landing of the 6th floor stairway of the North Tower spoke of hurricane force wind roaring by them as the building began to collapse. They were nearly on the street level. The building is collapsing some 90 floors above them. If the wind pressure was that much at the 6th floor level imagine what it is like 90 floors higher. We are talking HUGE amounts of compression here.
@roquefortfiles If it's all so straightforward and logical surely you and all these "experts"won't have any problem whatsoever coming up with all the relevant experiments that prove what happened was caused by a giant piston as it were.
It's pretty funny when u think about the fact that a piston actually gets propelled forward by means of an explosion, with the expanding air with nowhere to go but down. Where does that power come from? The towers had nothing but only PE to work with.
@Sandberg1972 coming up with all the relevant experiments that prove what happened was caused by a giant piston as it were
??? Who needs experiments to prove this? JFC you can see it.
You don't seem to understand the meaning of an ANALOGY do you? You're comparing this literally to a Piston and that is not the point. Google this and see how many engineers have used it to describe what's going on.
Any RATIONAL person can see this for the analogy it is.
@roquefortfiles Not to mention the fact that random fires and random damage are completely and totally unable to weaken a giant steel structure to the point of sudden total collapse. U're right, u don't need experts to prove this. It's would be like proving that water is wet, know what I mean? ;)
Go home sucker, u're no contest, stop humiliating urself, it's been enough, don't u think?
@roquefortfiles I can see the building being blown apart, and u know what? That makes a lot of sense when u look at all the available evidence (which u refuse to even look at let alone address).
But I'm done again wasting my precious time on some bozo who don't know nothing about fires, about steel, about resistance, about impuls, about history, and about chemistry.
Keep it up making a giant arse out of urself, it's ur life, ur choice.
@Sandberg1972 Who has said i refuse to look at and refuse to address it?
Dude? I have a 3d Graphics program. I have taken the time to model the collapse in Computer graphics. Paying particular attention to HOW the structure comes apart before it is overly obscured by the dust.
I am acutely aware of the collapse mechanisms and the rotational points of how the building is coming apart.
I also have experience with CD
if you think i don't know my topic you have picked the wrong guy.
Are you smoking glue? Go and look at close up video of the corner of the building where it crumples and keels over. Its raging on fire!! And smoke issuing out of the building UNDER PRESSURE!!! .. is not a fire that is subsiding.
There is an excellent structural analysis i just read on WTC 2 collapse. This building was in fact failing the moment the plane hit it. Just that it took an hour and a half to reach failure point. It was warping at 1 degree/hr
@azar783402 The drywall and concrete floors were pulverized. What is so hard to process about that? Its being hit by 31 floors. It stands no chance. The rest of the structure is coming apart at its connections. If you bother to look at the debris pile.. (Go look at it!!) you will see that the steel has separated where it is bolted together. Its not broken (By and large!!) its pulled apart where it is bolted together. The steel hasn't failed. The BOLTS holing it together have
@azar783402 Oh....!! Rather a funny statement!! Considering that Controlled Demolition technicians WATCHED building 7 come down in person. (I'll let you add up the complete common sense fail there!!).
And.. explosives don't pulverize buildings to DUST.
But Massive amounts of weight sure as hell do.
If you took a sheet of drywall and put it in a 50 ton hydraulic press, what's that going to look like at the end??
@azar783402 Surely enough time to rig up major explosives on columns.... behind drywall... behind electrical conduit... behind ceilings. And if that wasn't enough (And by God don't you think it ought to be??) More than enough time to rig up...............oh... 12 tons of Thermite on those columns as well.
@azar783402 So you wanna use Thermite for a CD do you?
watch?v=GYOHlJKcXrg&feature=related
When you walk in to the hardware store for your next building implosion project and they have Thermite in the discount bin next to the high explosive shaped charges.
@azar783402 Fact. No it doesn't. The DEBRIS is free falling. The structure collapsing inside the dust cloud is not. There is a big variance between the two.
Fact Nano thermite is not a substance any professional in CD would EVER use. You might as well say they found Water.
Fact. All the loads in the building are directed straight down. The building is mostly air. There is plenty of space inside it for the structure to collapse THROUGH itself.
@Hotters70603XL So a crack team of covert baddies could go in to the tower. Run up to the very floors the plane was going to take out.. (Awesome pilot!!). Quickly wire up explosives on every column (Making sure to take off and replace any dry wall or electrical conduit covering said columns). In case that didn't go off they also put 12 tons of Thermite on to those columns.. Sorry.. NANO thermite..(Does a better job!!). Then left and the security came back to work.
@MrGman8161 LOL. Give me a break. The towers were 500,000 tons a piece. That much debris ain't going nowhere fast. Plenty of time to wander over the debris and have a look. Besides key sections WERE id'd down to even the floors they came from. This fantasy that it was all boxed up and shipped out is nonsense. And I am sorry but you can't take what happened on 911 and apply it to any other situation. The entire day was precedent setting.
@Hotters70603XL No concrete evidence? You might want to listen to the part where he talks about bare steel. As i have said a thousand times. They don't put fire proofing on steel for decoration. Even very small areas of bare steel can compromise the entire section. Being that the floors were such a key element in the WTC doesn't take too many failing to cause collapse.
@alexjones67 Mmmhm!! Well. Care to explain how every hijacker was confirmed on the aircraft? By not one, not two but 3 credible verifiable avenues. From the Customs agent who allowed them to board. To the on board flight crew who ID'd their seat numbers. Down to ground operations at EACH airline who cross reffed seat numbers to booking/ticket database information.
All of which have been interviewed and spoken about it. (I've seen them).
@Hotters70603XL America is wasting its time on these wars. If anyone thinks Iraq and Afghanistan are going to be anything but what they have been for decades (Islamic Lawless tribalism). They're dreaming. You don't just march in with an army and foist "Democracy" on people who's very existence IS their religion. There is no separation for these people. Their religion IS their way of life. Suddenly the USA is going to stand that on its head and say...
@Hotters70603XL Right. You were also lied to about Sept 11th. But not in the way you think. It has nothing to do with "Freedom Being attacked today" or any of the Patriotic bullshit that George Bush heaps on the American people. It has to do with Americas policies in the Middle East. If you think the Government ran 9/11 you diminish the VERY REAL threats that come from other places in the world.
I remember him screaming about number 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that. –Firefighter Edward Kennedy
@azar783402 Remove one floor and its corresponding column reduces in strength by a factor of 8. Remove 2 floors and the column strength drops by a factor of 27. Doesn't take too many floors failing to severely weaken the exterior columns.
Explosives don't pulverize concrete. But what does?? (Hm?) MASSIVE crushing weight.
Take the example of a billiard ball (masonry or drywall simulate). Place it in a 50 ton Hydraulic press. What results?
@azar783402 The second plane nearly missed the building, only going through the corner.
Right. And low and behold the building crumbles in exactly the direction where that damage was rendered on it. You know why it collapsed first? Because it had 2x the amount of weight left above the impact point.
The first tower had about half the weight above.
Both collapse entirely consistently with the MANNER in which they got hit.
All the moving pieces MUST fit together. And it HAS to be that across the board. It makes ZERO sense to have a...(ahem).. "Conspiracy" in one area but its a terrorist attack in the other.
If people want to claim Conspiracy then it MUST be that in absolutely every aspect and all the moving parts MUST fit together. Sorry.. this is not an 80% conspiracy or a 92% conspiracy.
@puppetmaster195 It's silly to believe that a human being can't mistakes? Maybe, if you'd open your fucking eyes then you know
I get your point!! But we are not talking about forgetting to refill the coffee maker or picking up toner for the photo copier.
We are talking about the load distributions in the structure. About MAJOR stuff worked on day after day after day. What Robertson has gone to school FOR.
He is going to know what each floor can carry. ABSOLUTELY!!
@puppetmaster195 Larry said "Pull It". Just FYI Larry has absolutely no jurisdiction over his building during a fire. The FDNY do. And as far as "Pull it" goes, He and Chief Dan Nigro have cleared up this oft "Used" quote. There is nothing nefarious about it or nothing sinister. He is referring to Chief Nigro basically saying... "Its out of control we are not losing more men and we're going to pull out"
Would you like to take us all through the CD theory? How bout starting with the entire lack of any audio of that?? Such as evidenced by ABC NEWS shooting a mere 800 feet from WTC 2.
And recording absolutely nothing by way of any explosions or detonations.
@puppetmaster195 Shut up!! like.. just SHUT UP!!. It had nothing to do with Robertson. It had to do with the technology of the time. The man was responsible for engineering one of the most radically different buildings of its day. A total departure from what had been.
He has an extremely high intellect. That is why i site him often. Because he trumps the fucking endless crap that you lot bring up on YT on a daily basis.
@puppetmaster195 No dude. you got it all wrong. The guy is brilliant. It was the technology that was unable to deal with it. A fire is a very random calculation. It requires computer models to do. Today its easily done. Purdue University produced a simulation that is very well done. (They're math a computer geeks it going to be accurate!!).
The 767 impacts were over and above what the building was designed for.
Sorry but tossing credible people under the bus makes you look dumb
@puppetmaster195 Wouldn't catch fire?? you don't research too much do you? In accounting for a 707 hitting the building the fuel load of the aircraft was never taken in to consideration because engineers could not model something so random like this back in 1968. Also it would be ASSUMED that the jet would be on landing approach with a substantially lighter fuel load. Not BRIM full like the 767's and doing 560mph. TOTALLY over the design limits.
@puppetmaster195 Drop 14 floors on one floor and it would collapse instantly. And it wouldn't be a slow failure.
If it makes no sense why does the man who built the structure say it?
And btw. It takes allot longer than 10 seconds. The DEBRIS spewed out might be taking 10 seconds the building collapsing at the center of all that dust is taking much longer.
Come on guys, give some more questions to mr. roquefart. Keep him busy spewing his bullshit. He's carrying a whole lot, let's make him dump it over & over again.
@puppetmaster195 You need to (everyone needs to!!) understand how the loads are carried in the structure. The building is not SOLID. Most of it is simply air. If a failure occurs the inertia and gravity loads are all directed straight down. 31 stories (WTC 2) is not simply going to slide off the side. The structure encountered HUGE resistance as it came down. The collapse was ALL resistance. Every lower floor was entirely intact until the collapsing portion landed on it.
@Hotters70603XL create the vacuum that was necessary to account for the tumbling speed of the Twin Towers. YOU ARE FULL OF FUCKING SHIT!!
No I am just really smart and know what I am talking about. There is nothing "CONTROLLED" about the way the towers come down. At all. Everything below the collapse front is intact until the descending portion lands on it. If the columns below were being blown the descending portion has no resistance to encounter.
@azar783402 What IS going in the corridors of power?? You're all dialed in are you?
An election in the USA with every candidate looking like a religion nut or a car salesman? A zealot dictator being taken out of power in Libya. A Greek economy on the verge of collapse?
@azar783402 Paranoid ramblings of conspiracy nuts!!
All you dudes do yourself a huge disservice in getting so caught up in all of this utter nonsense. You take your eyes of the real problems of the world. I think its all quite sad really.
@Hotters70603XL LOL. you need to understand something. There is DIFFERENCE between HEAT and Temperature. It makes no difference if the jet fuel got consumed. What it served to do was flash start a fire over a HUGE area all at once. Like dousing your BBQ in lighter fluid the fire is across the entire area in one shot. So a HUGE amount of the building is being heated. The carbon based stuff like carpeting and desks is burning but the temperature is raised across a VERY large area.
@Hotters70603XL only thing that can account for the speed of the Towers' collapse is controlled demolition - where cutter charges and explosives
NOPE!!
For one thing explosive don't pulverize anything. Nor are they used for that. Ask yourself this. What DOES pulverize shit? I mean turn it to powder? Like we saw.
Grinding MASSIVE amounts of weight!! If you put a billiard ball in a hydraulic vice that has TONS of pressure. What's the result?
@azar783402 Dude? you are so badly informed i am not surprised you think everyone and their dog are pulling the wool over your eyes. Go and educate yourself instead of being the "MY GOVERNMENTS OUT TO GET ME". guy that you drone on and on about (and start to look rather foolish in doing it).
Over 20 demolitions companies were involved in the clean up. The steel was RIGOROUSLY examined. Even ID'd down to the FLOORS it came from.
1 Million tons of debris ain't going ANYWHERE fast
@Hotters70603XL One either has to be an idiot or ignorant not to notice that both buildings fail EXACTLY in the manner they were hit. Do you think that is a coincidence? (What a the chances??).
WTC 1 hit square on resulting in half as many floors left above the impact as WTC 2. It lasts the longest. (Coincidence??)
WTC 2 hit off center resulting in twice as many floors above the impact. It collapses first.
Do you see a pattern here that fits EXACTLY the damage?
@azar783402 I just think you lot are not very rational people.
Its not a coincidence that both buildings collapse when they do. Look at it!! Examine it!! There is a REASON!! WTC 2? 2x the weight above. Lasts half as long. WTC 1 half as much weight above impact area. Lasts twice as long. The buildings have IDENTICAL construction.
That had virtually identical jets hit them. Makes sense!! When examined. Both buildings even come down CONSISTENT with the location of the damage
@azar783402 NIST has recently released videos of witnesses accounts of explosions but your news media doesnt report it!
Oh. So someone is going to say they heard explosions and you blame the media for not reporting it? And we have how many excellent quality videos of the WTC coming down? 2 dozen?? Some taken 800 feet from the tower. High explosives? Shape charges?? One charge!! Let alone half a dozen more???
@azar783402 You said it yourself “The steel was weakened by a “rapid erosion event”"
Right. You left out a very important part of that. And BTW it was from the metallurgy report on 7 (Which i saw on a Documentary with the guy on camera).
Rapid erosion event with no thermitic or explosive residues present.
@TheHungrySnail Yeah that'll get u off the hook, right? ;) U won't have to do any explaining on why the existence of a 1st phase and 3rd phase somehow disproves CD. Nicely done.
Instead u just gave me a few links to bullshit Blanchard & wicked idiot Mark Roberts. I have read their BS already, and concluded it is indeed that, bullshit, especially Blanchard.
So u've managed to evade all the important stuff, congrats on that, now let's quickly shut this thing down, OK? Sleep tight!
.
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail Other than that, it's my humble opinion that for a steel skyscraper to fall into itself requires a lot of precision. It requires even more precision to completely destroy itself.
No random "natural" event is going to produce such a neat and total collapse of such a huge steel structure. It never has, and very probably never will.
U're forgetting by the way that NIST had to be forced to admit the existence of freefall, for they had omitted that fact from their initial draft.
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail Could u elaborate a bit on the part where u claim that the existence of the 1st & 3rd stage somehow disproves controlled demolition? Thanx in advance.
Now, since u fail to appreciate the grave consequences of the existence of freefall at WTC7's collapse, I think it's rather useless to continue this.
It's not that hard though, to grasp, one would think.
Had it really been a natural occuring event, we would've seen gradual deformations & partial collapses, if at all any.
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail I told u where to go, I assume u're able to punch in "NIST Final Report on the Collapse etc." when doing a google search. U pick out the link from NIST, go to the PDF-file and then go to page 44. Think u can achieve this outrageous effort?
The reason why I'm using the info from NIST itself is because it's fairly easy to expose all the fraudulent science that they did. The fact u're not even aware of this fact that NIST has admitted freefall tells a big story. It's tough aint it?
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail Dude, it's in the Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, chapter 3.6, page 44. NIST defines Stage 2 with the north face descending at gravitational acceleration.
Now, slowly get to grips with this, OK?
Go look it up, then wonder why NIST doesn't recognize the obvious implications of it.
Good luck!
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail U know, u sure sound like a bit of a dumbass.
U're pretending there's no evidence for everything I've said. U don't seem to understand what constitutes evidence in this case.
YOU claim the facade fell close to freefall, that is not a fact, I don't know where u got that from. The whole bldg minus the mech. penthouse & everything underneath it, fell AT freefall for 100 ft. That is a fact that is acknowledged by NIST, only YOU do not seem to be aware of it. Denial is all u have
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail @ last, the information of the 2.25 sec. of freefall that occured is in the revised version of the NIST report on WTC7, after they forgot to mention it in their initial version. Kinda odd that NIST missed that crucial phenomenon, wouldn't u say? But have a go at explaining freefall without the additional input of energy provided by explosives and/or incendiaries.
And what does linking eachother to a peerreviewed paper have to do with the application of the scientific method?
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail And since there were audible explosions aside from the fact that nanothermitic charges can be engineered to make very little sound, I won't acknowledge that I haven't been able to explain why there were no explosions. I'm not saying it's a fact that thermite cutters were used, but that it's a possibility that they were used. It does not change the fact that B7's collapse started suddenly, proceeded symmetrically, and ended up a total collapse at near freefall acc., does it?
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@Sandberg1972 Do you think they put nanothermites in the cars too?
JZJYRWO 3 weeks ago
@JZJYRWO Who do u mean by "they"?
No I dont'think nanothermitic materials were put in cars.
But perhaps these cars were burned so badly because they were hit with molten iron from thermitic reactions that were taking place during the collapses.
Perhaps YOU've got better ideas that also make sense?
Let's hear it!
Sandberg1972 3 weeks ago
@Sandberg1972 The cars are a result of radiation and there were mushroom clouds above the towers. Steven E Jones is the shill that keeps the truth movement from the real truth. Nuclear demolition
JZJYRWO 3 weeks ago
@TheHungrySnail Like I said, u're either playing dumb or u are severely trying to evade the subject. This is detective 101. The government destroying & witholding evidence proves at least it's got something to hide. One can of course assume it'll be incompetence, but I think that wouldn't be wise, considering the track record of the US government. And of course, there are many instances of government destruction & witholding of crucial evidence in the case of 9/11. What would that implicate?
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail It's the Standard Operating Procedure to test 4 explosives in cases like this. & yes NIST is guilty of committing scientific fraud. But u obviously haven't recognized this from what I've read from u thusfar.
U shouldn't behave like some dumbass who pretends 2 know so little. It seems u don't know that much about the scientific method & how it applies.
U can try 2 dodge the fact that freefall occured for 2.25 secs, it won't make it go away & neither will the implications of it.
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail The rubble by the way, was not searche for remnants of explosives, neither was the dust, u know that, NIST has admitted that in public, so what u should do is focus ur attention on NIST, and why they refused to test for explosives, while the NFPA921 guideline tells them to do so.
And if u're gonna claim that the collapse of WTC7 was not symmetrical, I can give u a shitload of examples of known CD's that were not 100% symmetrical as well.
U can't negotiate with laws of physics
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail Look I've seen the whole episode, he does not get asked one single question on how a large steelframed builing could fail in a CD-like fashion without it actually being a CD. I must admit, Gage's assertion is rather stupid and he shouldn't get into speculation on this. He should concentrate on the mode of failure, whch is rapid sudden symmetrical and total.
And please do not bring up the miles of detcord, RC-detonators have been around for many years. .
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
@TheHungrySnail Well well, someone defending mr. Loizeaux' comments. Yeah of course 4 min. is too short to ask anything about 1 of the most obvious smoking guns of 9/11.
Ur last sentence is just too good, so good that I'd like you 2 explain it a little more. Please tell me how YOU think WTC7 woul fall if explosives were used.
Also if u could tell me how the failure of ONE column could lead to the simultaneous total loss of every remaining steel column, that would nice, because NIST did not.
Sandberg1972 1 month ago
Anyone else noticing how Mark doesn't have to respond to the way WTC7 fell? What a lame ass reporter? BBC, right?
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@azar783402 Where does that inside job start? Hm!! Every hijacker was confirmed on the aircraft through at least 3 verifiable chains of proof.
There is no chemical that reacts for weeks at a time. Simply ridiculous. (Far more logical explanations!!)
B7 did not collapse for no reason. It was entirely expected to collapse.
But you're not interested in truth are you? You claim you are but you're not really. If you were you would read the firemen oral histories.
Ur full of shit.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@azar783402
And lets not even get started on the ridiculous notion that a jetliner crashed into the Pentagon
(Oh sorry!! What was that you said??)
watch?v=f0vxc50xAbk
This guy is lying is he? Last time a jet went over my head at tree top level (Which they can do at our airport viewing area). I didn't have any trouble making out what it was.
Wake up you fools.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 No. I am just very rational, very logical.
And too smart for you.
You have picked the wrong guy to argue with.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 No no no no no no NO!!
You don't bait and switch when you don't hear what you want to hear dude. You don't post all this rubbish about CD. Then have me blow it to hell with a few rational credible posts by people like the head of the Seismology lab in NY.
And then come back at me accusing me of not having integrity or supporting the murderers blah blah..
The goal posts are not continually moved at will here.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 These buildings were demolished by a CD were they? As you say.
For one thing explosives would be required for that. Powerful explosives. They WOULD register on a seismograph. They don't
Direct quote from Seismology station.
"There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers. That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context." Arthur Lerner-Lam, seismologist at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Thermite does not blow cement to smithereens. Nano thermite doesn't do it either. Explosives don't blow cement to smithereens. You don't prep a building for CD in 2 days so of what significance is this "Open door" story? I'll tell you. NONE.
Time to strap on the common sense hat. And it is not a matter of over looking things. Its about rational common sense.
You're logic has the building set up for a CD with a door open and 2 days prep time.
Silly.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 LOL. A bunch of urban myth nonsense. The port authority run the towers and provide security. In addition, independent tenants provide their own security as well. Cantor Fitzgerald etc (Which lost some 600 people). They don't simply close the doors and go home and many of those guys go 24/7. Get real. And stop trying to float such patently ridiculous stories here. You're not fooling anyone.
Except maybe you and your tag team brain addled brothers.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 seem to view us as crazy, since we have questions about 911.
Its perfectly alright to have questions. But understanding the questions you ask is another thing. If you are completely ignorant and have no knowledge about what you ask what is your frame of reference or knowledge base for the answer.? In your guys case NONE. Because you don't KNOW what you are talking about.
BTW. Its RETARDED. Not retarted.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Nobody has ever tested your "molten" metal. So saying it is metal is not accurate. What is far more likely is that it is molten aluminum of some kind. Explosives don't turn buildings to dust. The 93 truck bomb was an incredibly powerful blast with a blast over pressure of nearly 100,000 PSI. As powerful a conventional explosive as you're going to get. None of the concrete was rendered in to dust.
The buildings were NOT CD. You are seriously mistaken.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Why is so hard for you to understand that they weren't. How do blow buildings to bits (if that is what you claim.. not me) And not one iota of anything pointing to that was found? You can't have one without the other.
And no, they do not resemble a CD at all. You simply don't understand this subject and it is quite clear.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 And as usual you don't pay much attention to much do you? You can view the entire area where the plane hit. About 3 or 4 levels of floors have just about every window blown out across this area. There is nothing happening to these columns other than warping and eventual failure.. and collapse. There is no gigantic thermite reactions happening to them. And if you think there is you're on glue.
What just plowed in to the building? 155 feet of aluminum. Get real.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@Hotters70603XL I am tell you the truth my nigga and if you don't like it, too bad!!
Telling you.. Telling YOU the truth!! not I AM TELL YOU THE TRUTH!!
Get it right Home boy.
And no you're not right. You are anything but right. Quite wrong actually.
What are you going to do to make that right?
Go back to school and learn about Controlled Demolitions? Explosives? It would be a good start. Then maybe 8th grade?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@Hotters70603XL I am back to help you guys!! I am back man!!
Ahh i got the whole street gang after me i see. You guys need to tag team each other because you're not sharp enough individually?
Come on!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL Yo homey!!! Wassup? You may be telling the truth about your limited sense of knowledge. Are you telling the truth on CD?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh..
No!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Thermite huh? Ok then. There are close videos of the WTC collapsing. Isolated on exactly where it keels over and drops. Specifically WTC 2. We are talking about a substance that produces a MASSIVE amount of plasma energy. So bright that it is drifting in to the ultra violet spectrum. (Like a welders flame... you need to be wearing goggles to look at it etc).
The WTC is splayed wide open on 3 floors. Show me this reaction happening on ANY of the columns!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Care to explain a team of CD experts already on scene when 7 came down? (Just slightly absurd). Care to explain absolutely nothing being found supporting a CD. Teams of trained people were at all 3 buildings. CD's have LOTS of debris. Nobody found even a single blast cap or piece of shock tube. You can't keep going on and that these buildings were blown to smithereens and have nothing there.
And once again don't scream thermite. It is not a material used in CD.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Frank Papalia? Lying is he? Dan Nigro (In charge of the entire situation at 7).. Lying is he?
Put your head down on the road. Do you hear that? Its the bus approaching as you toss all of these people under it.
And you want to call me stupid? You defy credibility!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Keep convincing yourself!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 My silly theories are the truth
Sad!! sad!! Pathetically sad!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 All you are interested in is your one sided dream theories of CD... Thermite.. Blah blah. And all the rest of it.
I direct you to a web page called. 911 CRITICAL THINKING FOR DUMMIES.
Have read. And absorb some of it. If you're still interested in your silly theories personally i think you need to see a psychologist.
You might want to keep a pen with you and check off the amount of times you read "NO EVIDENCE OF"
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 No dude. But it comes down to LOGIC!! Common sense!! We are talking about high explosives here. This is not something that a couple of people are going to hear and the rest of the group around the corner are not. So ridiculous it verges on the absurd.
This is not a subtle event in anyway shape or form. Its not going to take place and one guy is going to hear it. Had it REALLY happened believe me everyone within a half a mile would know about it. Entirely.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Heard xplosions? Where? Show me one video of one. (There are half a dozen). You won't because they don't exist. And I know what this sounds like. Show me one.. Frank Pappalia heard nothing. Dan Nigro heard nothing. A team of CD techs were there.. Les Robertson had nothing to do with the fuel thing. It was the technology of the time that was lacking.
(Or don't you listen?) Doesn't appear so.
You're pathetically uninformed.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Right. Because they are credible people. When you hurl people like this under the bus just so your silly theories have a leg to stand on... you need to start questioning your reasoning skills.
Which went out the window when you lot dreamed up this shit ages ago.
I am smart, I am logical... VERY!! I am not the crazy one in this argument i can assure you.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 "fact" and opinion". You sad moronic fool
Explain it to me like I am a 5 year old!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 You're a one act pony dude. All you cite.. all you reference is this endless.. "OFFICIAL STORY" ... OFFICIAL STORY. Crap over and over. Like it is a report issued by one guy sitting at a desk. It is a HUGE group of highly educated people. You're use of Logic is non existent. All of you dudes i converse with on here are no different.
Like having a team of CD techs at B7 while it collapses???
Just a little bit significant!!!.. Just a little!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 You have very non existent Logic. All of you guys on here arguing this stuff do.
What's really sad about it all is you seem completely incapable of recognizing that fact.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 I don't get suckererd by shit.
Sure you do.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 It's quite obvious that wtc 7 was Cd.
With a CD team already there? Watching it collapse!!.
You really get suckered by all these buddies of yours in the Truth Movement don't you? Cant think for yourself can you?
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 There were MANY companies involved in the clean up. Not just CD Inc. The steel from the buildings got identified down to the floors it came from. Even isolating steel from the impact floors.
Spewing more bullshit i see!!! You need to take a look in the mirror before you start accusing others. You're guilty of spewing the constant lies of the "TM"..
You hear me!! Guilty... GUILTY!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@azar783402 We were not given any time to ask how this happened, as the official explanation was already at hand to provide a narrative for the broadcast images
????? You need an explanation to know what took place that day? Are you an idiot or something? An event that was photographed from virtually every conceivable angle? On Live television? What kind of an idiot needs to have his hand held and TOLD what took place. ???
I am not surprised you write the stuff you do.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 but we see nothing but dust as these buildings are coming down!
You bet you do!! And explosives don't pulverize concrete to powder. Never have.. Never will. But massive amounts of weight sure as hell do. Put a billiard ball in a hydraulic press. What results?? Powder. No different to what happened at WTC. Its not explosives. its WEIGHT.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 You don't understand how the loads are carried in the building. The floors do not hold vertical loads. They have a load limit of about 1500 tons. What do you think the result is going to be when 14 stories lands on that?
And we already have the SE Les Robertson saying " there is no way one floor is going to hold the weight of 14 or more stories falling on it. Not possible. It would collapse instantly."
What part of that don't you get? Its fairly basic.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@MrGman8161 LOL. You also might like to continue with that thread and exactly what Wally Miller said. There were no INTACT bodies there. What do you expect when a plane hits the ground at a perpendicular angle at 560mph. They'd be scraping up jello of human remains.
I get more than sick and tired of the cherry picked quotes that get tossed around on this subject.
Wake up and don't be so stupid. You don't fool anyone.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@puppetmaster195 Ignorance is a choice, illiteracy is not. I feel bad for all the people who want to learn but can't. It's sad to see that ignoramous, like the debunkers, are spreading ignorance
You guys are so out to lunch on this but what is the truly sad part is that you THINK you know what you're talking about and it makes you twice as ignorant.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 A team of CD techs were already at B7 when it fell. I'll let your common sense (if you have any) take care of the rest.
But i know its just going to flip back to Thermite now.. right? Right..
You guys are all like a 3 card monty game. When one theory gets blown to hell there is always another one that can be pulled out conveniently.
Its more than a little pathetic and desperate.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 How it feel? It feel real good.
Frank Pappalia heard nothing. Dan Nigro heard nothing. Go check out Ashley Banfield live on air as it collapses behind her. Without a sound.
CD? No way. laughably no way. Ridiculously silly no way.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Yes, these trolls like nothing more than to waste as most of ur time as possible. It's the usual modus operandi, keep coming back with the same lame arguments and lies while deliberately ignoring the facts and evidence that are out there in the public domain.
I used to fall for it, but nowadays I usually keep it down to a few knockouts before I'm off again to more important things.
These trolls have all the time in the world it seems. I really feel 4 these people u know, kinda sad
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Purposely ignorant, yes. Not hard to notice, is it? :)
Keep spreading the word, it's one thing to do to keep waking people up.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Waking people up to what? A building that has no evidence of anything pointing to a CD? Nothing was found. Trained people were at all 3 collapses. Trained people watched 7 collapse.
You're trying to say that trained people are not going to recognize a CD while they walk upon it? While they watch it?
Completely ridiculous stuff you are talking about here.
You might want to reconsider that "Purposely Ignorant" comment. It applies to you entirely.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
Like to see ur explanation also for the extreme temperatures in the debrispile that lasted for more than 8 weeks.
Come on, make me & everyone else here laugh once more. ;)
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Like to see ur explanation also for the extreme temperatures in the debrispile that lasted for more than 8 weeks.
Yeah.. and what of it? There is no chemical that reacts for a week at a time. And there is no chain of command for this "METAL" you guys keep going on about. For all you know its aluminum. Makes a little more sense.
As i said you seem hell bent on shoving any evidence you can in to fit your theories while turning away from stuff that doesn't.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 Paranoid ramblings of conspiracy theorists!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 She is a block away from it. The building falls while she is on air. And I've been thru this nonsense with you lot a 1000x times. Is your witness lying? No. Did he hear timed shaped charges? That's another matter entirely.
There are half a dozen videos of 7 coming down. One taken by a couple of dudes on their balcony.
This is what shaped charges sound like in a downtown setting.
watch?v=obJe66QHx_Y&feature=related
Show me this on any video and I'll shut up.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Well shit. He should have talked to Ashley Banfield of CNN. She is on air live reporting that 7 is the next.. (Key word.. NEXT) building to collapse. Ashley is now a psychic is she? Dude.. 100 firemen knew 7 was coming down.
And the witness heard booms did he? Interesting, because Frank Pappalia of the FDNY stated he heard nothing.
I can assure you, having experienced it myself, there is NO WAY one person is going to hear this and another not
Laughably silly.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 We don't believe that 19 hijakcers alone caused all of this destruction and death!!
Why? !!! NORAD's fighter pilots had no idea where the hijacked plane was (look it up!!) Yes the military regularly intercept planes that's true. But the conditions of those intercepts are NORMAL. That being OPERATIONAL TRANSPONDERS. By the time A 11 hit the WTC the fighter pilots were sitting at a radar screen trying to locate it.
19 hijackers? they sure could.
Look up the facts!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 LOL. BTW.. I do think for myself. Observation has nothing to do with a Government story. Don't be an idiot. This (Video) is plainly available to anyone. The rest is common sense and logic.
Ever stop to consider WHY the first tower is the second to collapse? Or the Second tower hit is the FIRST to collapse? There is a reason. And it has NOTHING what so ever to do with being spoon fed an "Official Story"..
You rely on this crutch far too much.
Think dude think
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Right. And where does it fail from? Precisely where the plane hit it. The building was hit almost dead on.. And Ooooooh. It collapses almost squarely entirely consistent with HOW it was hit. The second building WTC 2. Has 2x as much weight above the impact area. But...Ooooooooh.. It fails FIRST!!.. Why?? Because the structure cant maintain this larger load (They're identical buildings!!). It even falls TOWARD the side of the plane damage.
Coincidence?
No. LOGIC
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@STFU1238 Let's look at this with intellgence
Lets!!
Run a commercial airliner in to it at full power then i might be interested in what you have to say. Comparing Sept 11th to any other event is a useless exercise. There is NO PRECEDENT in any way shape or form to anything else. You can't extrapolate XYZ building collapse to Sept 11th. There is no point.
And Thermite is not a substance that any professional would EVER use for a CD.
Call one up and ask them. Go ahead.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Don't be an idiot!! living in a cave has nothing to do with running a knife up someone's throat. Of which I am sure it makes one QUITE proficient at. And the hijackers were anything but guys who lived in caves. Boston is 21 minutes flying time to NY. There is a reason it was chosen as the departure point. Speed and surprise were on their side. Before anyone figured out what the problem was they were at the targets.
U need a commission for that?
If you only had a brain
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 You have no experience with CD
Yeah i do. Weather you believe it or not is of no consequence to me. That's your problem.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles If u have experience with CD, if u know what it takes to bring a large building down in symmetrical fashion, then u shouldn't have any problem recognizing that WTC7 was indeed a well executed CD. Right?
Look at Mark Loizeaux and tell me where he addresses the way B7 fell down. He does not address it anywhere. Does he address the use of thermitecuttercharges to cut steel columns? No he does not.
Just give it up, no one is falling for ur bullshit coffeehouse crap.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 If u have experience with CD, if u know what it takes to bring a large building down in symmetrical fashion, then u shouldn't have any problem recognizing that WTC7 was indeed a well executed CD. Right?
No.
Show me the charges going off. (there are none). Show me the debris afterward. (This material is very plentiful and it doesn't magically clean itself up). No one found a thing. A team of CD techs were already there when it went off.
Go and get an education my friend.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles One more time then, if u know anything about CD's, u know that there's only one way to bring large steel structures down in a sudden symmetrical fashion, into it's own footprint.
Look idiot, u can talk about ur stupid charges going off, u can talk about blastcaps and detcord that was supposed to be found (no one was looking for them anyway) all day long, it's not gonna change the fact how it came down and that B7 was experiencing freefall for a 2.25 second period.
Get a life
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 So you're going to tell me a team of CD techs standing there watching this (which they were) suddenly forget everything about their profession? have no clue what they are looking at? A "CD" happens in front of their face and not one of them go...."Hmmm that was curious".
Absurd!!
You might want to check out the NIST simulation running along side the ACTUAL footage of 7. They match up perfectly. The interior of the building was collapsing LONG before it fell.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Dude. I have been there with this i know what its like in person. Had any of these structures been CD's TRUST ME.. Everyone in lower Manhattan would be completely aware of this. Every single camera shooting this within a mile radius would be overflowing with audio of it. GET REAL!! You don't have a structure "alleged" to be taken down in a CD and have that happen in silence (Which it does!!).
Totally totally ridiculous!! And there is NO getting around that. Nonsense!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles U know shit 'bout the concept of freefall.
WTC 1 and 2 were anything but silent "collapses".
Plenty of witnesses also that claim that B7 wasn't so silent as well. What do u expect from a collapsing 47-story skyscraper? Total silence? How much more ridiculous are u gonna get?
So, address the nanoenergetics from LLNL and Los Alamos for a change. Make urself useful. CD-techniques evolve too u know. RC detonation, more advanced explosives, taylormade explosives etc etc.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 As i said earlier, if you think you have run across someone who isn't up on their subject. You're mistaken.
WTC 1 and 2 were anything but silent "collapses".
(Bullshit!!) I have plotted WTC collapse video taken from multitudes of locations around NY. For one thing ABC news shoots from 800 feet away. They record nothing. (and I am talking charges.. not the SOUND of collapse).. A CD? 800 feet away?
So ridiculous and absurd its not worth a remark. Not possible dude.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Plenty of witnesses that claim the building was not silent? I completely agree. Steel columns snapping? Bolts being snapped off with tremendous force? Absolutely!!.
Timed explosive charges going off? No way!! (Been there and i know what this is like in person and recorded on professional News camera gear no different to what ABC news would have had.
Its not possible to have explosives go off and cameras 800 feet from this record nothing. No way!! Not happening.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles U can evade the subject of nanoenergetics all u want, it won't make it go away.
U can talk shit about ur conventional explosives that can be heard far away all day long, fact is that there was a roaring shitload of sound during the demolition of both towers (not to mention the vibrations before onset of demolition).
U can evade the freefall acceleration of B7 for all u like, it won't make it go away.
What a shame, isn't it?
U're not up to the job son, not by a long way
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Nanoenergetics? LOL. Pull out the yellow pages and call up a demolition company and ask them yourself. Tell them you would like them to use Thermite for a 25 story office implosion. Then wait for the laughter to start,.. because that's what you'd get.
Shitload of sound? LOL. WTC 2 drops out of QUIET on cameraplanet video.
CD? Absolutely absurd
The only shame here is the complete lack of understanding in what you are talking about.
Kinda sad!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@Sandberg1972 U can talk shit about ur conventional explosives that can be heard far away all day long, fact is that there was a roaring shitload of sound during the demolition of both towers.
Show me one!! There were.........? HOW MANY videos of the WTC? Over 20 different angles of this. More than you could possibly need. A zillion angles of these structures burning and collapsing
Show me ONE with audio like below. You won't. Doesn't exist
watch?v=obJe66QHx_Y&feature=related
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 You don't even seem to follow your own logic.. Or lack thereof. Had any of these structures been CD. There would material of that there. And no matter how many ways you want to slice your silly theories.. DEBRIS would BE THERE!!. Explosives remote or wired... Would be there. Radio receivers .. Would be there. Columns blown apart ... Would be there. Evidence of this.. Would be there. It doesn't all magically clean itself up.
Time for a little common sense
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 You don't even seem to follow your own logic.. Or lack thereof. Had any of these structures been CD. There would material of that there. And no matter how many ways you want to slice your silly theories.. DEBRIS would BE THERE!!. Explosives remote or wired... Would be there. Radio receivers .. Would be there. Columns blown apart ... Would be there. Evidence of this.. Would be there. It doesn't all magically clean itself up.
Time for a little common sense
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Exactly who are you to have any authority to say what would and what wouldn't be there in the debrispile? Columns blown? Sure, plenty of them, easy to pile up on trucks to be removed (without ever being investigated, about 99,3 % of it). Dust? Wasn't investigated by NIST. Ever heard of selfconsuming detonators? Ever heard of Tom Sullivan, former CDI explosives loader? Nanoenergetics aren't used by conventional democompanies dipshit, but u would be too dumb to get this, right?
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
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@Sandberg1972 Ever heard of selfconsuming detonators?.
Give me break!! You're so ridiculous it is beyond the pale. A CD has so much debris left afterwards that companies have to clean this stuff up. It is EVERYWHERE. Claiming a building is going to be dropped in this manner and teams of CD specialists are not going to know what they are looking at is ABSURD!!!. Totally absurd. And saying... "They weren't looking for it".. is a lame cop out.
you're a dumb fuck!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 u know that there's only one way to bring large steel structures down in a sudden symmetrical fashion, into it's own footprint.
The mistake you make is that you speak in absolutes. You are locked in to one way of thinking and you are going to do your damnedest to shove the evidence in to that ONE hole you have carved out... no matter what. If the internal supports of the structure are failing all across the building...........It has nothing to support it
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Yeah freefall accdeleration is pretty absolute dude. There's no way around that, so u can flush ur pathetic soundargument through to toilet.
U obviously know very little about CD's. And I guess Tom Sullivan must be nuts, right?
And I'm wondering about the fact that so many people have not even heard about a thing called B7. They don't know what it is and what happened to it on 9/11. Surely u have a good logical reason for it that it wasn't shown again after 9/11 4 many years.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Does he address the use of thermitecuttercharges to cut steel columns? No he does not.
Yeah.LOL. Because he is EDUCATED and knows what he is talking about. There is no one on the planet with expertise in CD who would ever bother to use THERMITE...or Nanothermite...or fucking Marmite to take down a building. You use HIGH EXPLOSIVES for this... PERIOD!!
When are you nuts going to get that through your head? Its not used for CD. I am not the crazy one here i can assure you.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@roquefortfiles "Its not used for CD. I am not the crazy one here i can assure you."
Why don't u talk to the people at Lawrence Livermore Nat. Lab. or Los Alamos? They can tell u all about the properties of nanoenergetics and what it can and cannot do.
Untill u've done that, better keep ur mouth shut.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@azar783402 LOL. The fire simply weakens the structure to failure point. The building takes care of turning it to dust.. Dude.
Read a good paper on the WTC recently. Are you aware this structure (WTC 2) was in fact failing as soon as the plane hit it? The structure was tilting 1 degree an hour but it was so small a tilt it was virtually imperceptible. Those columns going out of alignment.. (and we know they were!!) finally reached the breaking point and snapped.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Yeah it "simply" weakened the structure to failure point. Sure buddy, of course it did. It had done so before, right? Uhhhhh, no actually. Wait a minute here....
Let's see, tilting 1 degree an hour, OK. But it was only burning for one whole hour, so we have 1 single degree of going out of alignment. Apparently that was enough for each and every steel column 2 suddenly give way.
Lemme ask u something: are u stupid, high, doped out or something?
U sure sound like u're all 3
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@azar783402 Great. Start a poetry class.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 So. !! The building is about 90% air. What you have taking place here is no different to a gigantic pneumatic ram in action. Basically a huge piston. But instead of holding together this compression is being shoved out areas of least resistance. Case in point.
Take a square milk carton. Stamp on it. Notice where it comes apart just about every time. The bottom corner usually blows out.
This is what you have going on at the WTC only 110 stories of it.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles U are and will stay pretty dumb, don't u?
Go entertain some goofballs with ur absurd fantasies and analogies dude.
Don't u know any shame?
A piston stays in line because it's inside a cilinder, so there goes ur stupid comparison right off the bat.
Never mind the fact that the toppart is supposed to stay intact with this theory, so there it goes again, ur pretty stupid theory. But keep 'm coming by all means, discredit urself all u want, I love it.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 LOL.. (are you for real?) Of course it is EXACTLY like a piston. It has also been described in exactly the same manner by a number of highly educated people..
Shove it dude!! I am so sick of the sanctimonious righteousness with which you lot discuss this topic.
Yes the piston stays in line because its in a cylinder.... OBVIOUSLY. Its the analogy we are talking about here.
There is a tremendous amount of air in the building being COMPRESSED. Any idiot knows this.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Words cannot even begin to describe how misplaced this piston-analogy is. U wanna compare the upper part to a piston? What force will keep the piston in line, what force will make sure it will not topple over? How credible is it to expect that, given that it's supposed to be a "natural" collapse, it will not topple? What do ur "experts" say on this particular matter?
I guess nothing huh?
The toppart has the same footprint as the lower part, therefore it cannot act like a piston.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Topple? We are not talking about a set of tinker toy blocks here dude. The gravity loads in a structure like this are all directed straight down. The building is 90% air. There is plenty of space for it to go through itself. And we are not talking a "LITERAL" piston. Its called an analogy. (Meaning LIKE!!!). You have a huge amount of air in this building. A descending 1/3 of it compressing that air.
Its exactly like a piston.
Helloooooooo!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Words cannot describe the level of inability you nuts have in understanding this event.
Btw. Taken from a Structural Engineer's description. Not mine.
...... The collapsing floor acted like a giant piston compressing the air ...
(But i guess he's yet another of the idiots that you love to hate right?)
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.....
OK dude, show me the experiments, the realworld experiments that prove these "experts" have a case with their crazy theory.
Don't have none, can't produce any? No, u don't, don't u? Well now, take a wild guess what that means...
Solong sucker, u'll be ignored from now on.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Ignored from now on? You mean like i won't have to deal with your stupid posts anymore? Well i am all broken up about that.
How much of an idiot do you have to be to see this building collapse (Which is like 90% air inside) and see stuff shoved out the windows below the collapse front and somehow have difficulty understanding that it is acting like a giant pneumatic ram??
What experiment needs to prove this? You can see it.
Unless you're stevie wonder or an idiot.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 And another thing. The firemen who survived on the landing of the 6th floor stairway of the North Tower spoke of hurricane force wind roaring by them as the building began to collapse. They were nearly on the street level. The building is collapsing some 90 floors above them. If the wind pressure was that much at the 6th floor level imagine what it is like 90 floors higher. We are talking HUGE amounts of compression here.
If you need an "expert" to figure that out?!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles If it's all so straightforward and logical surely you and all these "experts"won't have any problem whatsoever coming up with all the relevant experiments that prove what happened was caused by a giant piston as it were.
It's pretty funny when u think about the fact that a piston actually gets propelled forward by means of an explosion, with the expanding air with nowhere to go but down. Where does that power come from? The towers had nothing but only PE to work with.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 coming up with all the relevant experiments that prove what happened was caused by a giant piston as it were
??? Who needs experiments to prove this? JFC you can see it.
You don't seem to understand the meaning of an ANALOGY do you? You're comparing this literally to a Piston and that is not the point. Google this and see how many engineers have used it to describe what's going on.
Any RATIONAL person can see this for the analogy it is.
Piston.. Pneumatic ram
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles Not to mention the fact that random fires and random damage are completely and totally unable to weaken a giant steel structure to the point of sudden total collapse. U're right, u don't need experts to prove this. It's would be like proving that water is wet, know what I mean? ;)
Go home sucker, u're no contest, stop humiliating urself, it's been enough, don't u think?
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 You're an idiot!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@roquefortfiles I can see the building being blown apart, and u know what? That makes a lot of sense when u look at all the available evidence (which u refuse to even look at let alone address).
But I'm done again wasting my precious time on some bozo who don't know nothing about fires, about steel, about resistance, about impuls, about history, and about chemistry.
Keep it up making a giant arse out of urself, it's ur life, ur choice.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 Who has said i refuse to look at and refuse to address it?
Dude? I have a 3d Graphics program. I have taken the time to model the collapse in Computer graphics. Paying particular attention to HOW the structure comes apart before it is overly obscured by the dust.
I am acutely aware of the collapse mechanisms and the rotational points of how the building is coming apart.
I also have experience with CD
if you think i don't know my topic you have picked the wrong guy.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 some bozo who don't know nothing about fires, about steel, about resistance, about impuls, about history, and about chemistry.
Boy you just got it all covered don't ya?
We'll all have to stop by sometime for a cup of Ego.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Sandberg1972 U are and will stay pretty dumb, don't u?
LOL.. Google WTC and piston and see how often its mentioned in write ups on it.
Are you really that ignorant? apparently so.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 ??????????!!!!!
Are you smoking glue? Go and look at close up video of the corner of the building where it crumples and keels over. Its raging on fire!! And smoke issuing out of the building UNDER PRESSURE!!! .. is not a fire that is subsiding.
There is an excellent structural analysis i just read on WTC 2 collapse. This building was in fact failing the moment the plane hit it. Just that it took an hour and a half to reach failure point. It was warping at 1 degree/hr
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 The drywall and concrete floors were pulverized. What is so hard to process about that? Its being hit by 31 floors. It stands no chance. The rest of the structure is coming apart at its connections. If you bother to look at the debris pile.. (Go look at it!!) you will see that the steel has separated where it is bolted together. Its not broken (By and large!!) its pulled apart where it is bolted together. The steel hasn't failed. The BOLTS holing it together have
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Oh....!! Rather a funny statement!! Considering that Controlled Demolition technicians WATCHED building 7 come down in person. (I'll let you add up the complete common sense fail there!!).
And.. explosives don't pulverize buildings to DUST.
But Massive amounts of weight sure as hell do.
If you took a sheet of drywall and put it in a 50 ton hydraulic press, what's that going to look like at the end??
Dust.. You got it!!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Surely enough time to rig up major explosives on columns.... behind drywall... behind electrical conduit... behind ceilings. And if that wasn't enough (And by God don't you think it ought to be??) More than enough time to rig up...............oh... 12 tons of Thermite on those columns as well.
Right???
Right!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 So you wanna use Thermite for a CD do you?
watch?v=GYOHlJKcXrg&feature=related
When you walk in to the hardware store for your next building implosion project and they have Thermite in the discount bin next to the high explosive shaped charges.
Spend the money and go for the explosives!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Fact. No it doesn't. The DEBRIS is free falling. The structure collapsing inside the dust cloud is not. There is a big variance between the two.
Fact Nano thermite is not a substance any professional in CD would EVER use. You might as well say they found Water.
Fact. All the loads in the building are directed straight down. The building is mostly air. There is plenty of space inside it for the structure to collapse THROUGH itself.
Go and get some better facts.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@azar783402 Inside job destroyed the twin towers and building 7
Considering a CD team watched 7 come down i find that a rather ridiculous statement. In addition to nothing being found in the debris of the WTC's
And please don't cite Thermite as a CD material. Its not.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL So a crack team of covert baddies could go in to the tower. Run up to the very floors the plane was going to take out.. (Awesome pilot!!). Quickly wire up explosives on every column (Making sure to take off and replace any dry wall or electrical conduit covering said columns). In case that didn't go off they also put 12 tons of Thermite on to those columns.. Sorry.. NANO thermite..(Does a better job!!). Then left and the security came back to work.
Right. ?
Right.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL Yeah and? The WTC has independent security for each tenant in addition to overall security by Port Authority.
To think people are going casually waltz in with a truck full of Thermite or wire up explosives.
Is a couple of notches past Absurd.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@MrGman8161 LOL. Give me a break. The towers were 500,000 tons a piece. That much debris ain't going nowhere fast. Plenty of time to wander over the debris and have a look. Besides key sections WERE id'd down to even the floors they came from. This fantasy that it was all boxed up and shipped out is nonsense. And I am sorry but you can't take what happened on 911 and apply it to any other situation. The entire day was precedent setting.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL No concrete evidence? You might want to listen to the part where he talks about bare steel. As i have said a thousand times. They don't put fire proofing on steel for decoration. Even very small areas of bare steel can compromise the entire section. Being that the floors were such a key element in the WTC doesn't take too many failing to cause collapse.
watch?v=16pshQP8NmU&feature=related
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL these buildings to withstand mul tiple planes hitting them.
The buildings were not designed for MULTIPLE plane impacts. Don't be ridiculous.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 Don't kid yourself. His "good intentions" were entirely self serving
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 Mmmhm!! Well. Care to explain how every hijacker was confirmed on the aircraft? By not one, not two but 3 credible verifiable avenues. From the Customs agent who allowed them to board. To the on board flight crew who ID'd their seat numbers. Down to ground operations at EACH airline who cross reffed seat numbers to booking/ticket database information.
All of which have been interviewed and spoken about it. (I've seen them).
Explain that one away!!
I am waiting!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL America is wasting its time on these wars. If anyone thinks Iraq and Afghanistan are going to be anything but what they have been for decades (Islamic Lawless tribalism). They're dreaming. You don't just march in with an army and foist "Democracy" on people who's very existence IS their religion. There is no separation for these people. Their religion IS their way of life. Suddenly the USA is going to stand that on its head and say...
Do it our way?!!
NO.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL Right. You were also lied to about Sept 11th. But not in the way you think. It has nothing to do with "Freedom Being attacked today" or any of the Patriotic bullshit that George Bush heaps on the American people. It has to do with Americas policies in the Middle East. If you think the Government ran 9/11 you diminish the VERY REAL threats that come from other places in the world.
Don't kid yourself and you are.
Enormously.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL (ahem)..
I remember him screaming about number 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that. –Firefighter Edward Kennedy
Sorry..? you were saying?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Remove one floor and its corresponding column reduces in strength by a factor of 8. Remove 2 floors and the column strength drops by a factor of 27. Doesn't take too many floors failing to severely weaken the exterior columns.
Explosives don't pulverize concrete. But what does?? (Hm?) MASSIVE crushing weight.
Take the example of a billiard ball (masonry or drywall simulate). Place it in a 50 ton Hydraulic press. What results?
Powder!!
No different to the WTC collapse
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@alexjones67 LOL!! Sorry, but where have 2 767's sailed through other sky scrapers?
Oh yeah.. LIKE NEVER!! There IS no precedent. It was born on Sept 11th.
Physical evidence?? Like what?? Nobody found a thing pointing to a CD.
And Thermite is not a substance used for this. Don't kid yourself
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 and that the jet fuel
burned with the heat of a nuclear power
plant and melted the steal columns of the
towers’ cores.
No. no no no no no no no!!!. NOBODY has ever claimed the steel was melted. So right off the bat you are misrepresenting FACTS...
So why should anybody listen to you?
If you're going to write about this at least take the time to get FACTS STRAIGHT!!
Steel loses HALF its strength at HALF its melting temperature...
How many times do i have to write it?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 The second plane nearly missed the building, only going through the corner.
Right. And low and behold the building crumbles in exactly the direction where that damage was rendered on it. You know why it collapsed first? Because it had 2x the amount of weight left above the impact point.
The first tower had about half the weight above.
Both collapse entirely consistently with the MANNER in which they got hit.
Common sense??
Youbetcha!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402
And they are???...
All the moving pieces MUST fit together. And it HAS to be that across the board. It makes ZERO sense to have a...(ahem).. "Conspiracy" in one area but its a terrorist attack in the other.
If people want to claim Conspiracy then it MUST be that in absolutely every aspect and all the moving parts MUST fit together. Sorry.. this is not an 80% conspiracy or a 92% conspiracy.
Its all in.. all the parts fit..
But they DON'T!! That's the problem.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Well this is EXACTLY what happened on 9/11!
Ok. Where is the involvement? Do you realize how many credible people you need to toss under the bus for your story to make sense?
If you got the hijackers on the planes.. IN CHARGE!! directing it.. and its confirmed thru at least 3 credible verifiable avenues (which it was).
Sorry!! but where is the conspiracy in this? What part does George Bush play in that?
Pushing the drink cart??
Care to explain.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 It's silly to believe that a human being can't mistakes? Maybe, if you'd open your fucking eyes then you know
I get your point!! But we are not talking about forgetting to refill the coffee maker or picking up toner for the photo copier.
We are talking about the load distributions in the structure. About MAJOR stuff worked on day after day after day. What Robertson has gone to school FOR.
He is going to know what each floor can carry. ABSOLUTELY!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Larry said "Pull It". Just FYI Larry has absolutely no jurisdiction over his building during a fire. The FDNY do. And as far as "Pull it" goes, He and Chief Dan Nigro have cleared up this oft "Used" quote. There is nothing nefarious about it or nothing sinister. He is referring to Chief Nigro basically saying... "Its out of control we are not losing more men and we're going to pull out"
It was cleared up long ago.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 The Pancake theory or the Cd theory
Would you like to take us all through the CD theory? How bout starting with the entire lack of any audio of that?? Such as evidenced by ABC NEWS shooting a mere 800 feet from WTC 2.
And recording absolutely nothing by way of any explosions or detonations.
Start with that!!
(I can hardly wait!!)
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Minoru Yamasaki, who designed the twin towers.
Right. And he turns it over to Les and says..."Ok. Build it"
I think Les knows what he's doing!!
Keep convincing yourself on your silly stories!! of which we both know they are!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Are you fucking stupid or something?? I guess you never listened to the rest of that video.
Because he says. "They never had the mathematical computer models to model such a fire".
Grow up you pin head.
So how are you going deal with something when the technology does not exist to DO IT?
You moron!! and all of you and you're brothers are morons. Sick of dealing with you fucking mental defectives.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Shut up!! like.. just SHUT UP!!. It had nothing to do with Robertson. It had to do with the technology of the time. The man was responsible for engineering one of the most radically different buildings of its day. A total departure from what had been.
He has an extremely high intellect. That is why i site him often. Because he trumps the fucking endless crap that you lot bring up on YT on a daily basis.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 No dude. you got it all wrong. The guy is brilliant. It was the technology that was unable to deal with it. A fire is a very random calculation. It requires computer models to do. Today its easily done. Purdue University produced a simulation that is very well done. (They're math a computer geeks it going to be accurate!!).
The 767 impacts were over and above what the building was designed for.
Sorry but tossing credible people under the bus makes you look dumb
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Wouldn't catch fire?? you don't research too much do you? In accounting for a 707 hitting the building the fuel load of the aircraft was never taken in to consideration because engineers could not model something so random like this back in 1968. Also it would be ASSUMED that the jet would be on landing approach with a substantially lighter fuel load. Not BRIM full like the 767's and doing 560mph. TOTALLY over the design limits.
There's your LOGIC!!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 Drop 14 floors on one floor and it would collapse instantly. And it wouldn't be a slow failure.
If it makes no sense why does the man who built the structure say it?
And btw. It takes allot longer than 10 seconds. The DEBRIS spewed out might be taking 10 seconds the building collapsing at the center of all that dust is taking much longer.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
Come on guys, give some more questions to mr. roquefart. Keep him busy spewing his bullshit. He's carrying a whole lot, let's make him dump it over & over again.
Sandberg1972 3 months ago
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@Sandberg1972 Say something intelligent!!
Or can't you keep up?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@puppetmaster195 You need to (everyone needs to!!) understand how the loads are carried in the structure. The building is not SOLID. Most of it is simply air. If a failure occurs the inertia and gravity loads are all directed straight down. 31 stories (WTC 2) is not simply going to slide off the side. The structure encountered HUGE resistance as it came down. The collapse was ALL resistance. Every lower floor was entirely intact until the collapsing portion landed on it.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL create the vacuum that was necessary to account for the tumbling speed of the Twin Towers. YOU ARE FULL OF FUCKING SHIT!!
No I am just really smart and know what I am talking about. There is nothing "CONTROLLED" about the way the towers come down. At all. Everything below the collapse front is intact until the descending portion lands on it. If the columns below were being blown the descending portion has no resistance to encounter.
There is nothing BUT resistance.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 What IS going in the corridors of power?? You're all dialed in are you?
An election in the USA with every candidate looking like a religion nut or a car salesman? A zealot dictator being taken out of power in Libya. A Greek economy on the verge of collapse?
Some new world order. !!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Paranoid ramblings of conspiracy nuts!!
All you dudes do yourself a huge disservice in getting so caught up in all of this utter nonsense. You take your eyes of the real problems of the world. I think its all quite sad really.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL LOL. you need to understand something. There is DIFFERENCE between HEAT and Temperature. It makes no difference if the jet fuel got consumed. What it served to do was flash start a fire over a HUGE area all at once. Like dousing your BBQ in lighter fluid the fire is across the entire area in one shot. So a HUGE amount of the building is being heated. The carbon based stuff like carpeting and desks is burning but the temperature is raised across a VERY large area.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@Hotters70603XL only thing that can account for the speed of the Towers' collapse is controlled demolition - where cutter charges and explosives
NOPE!!
For one thing explosive don't pulverize anything. Nor are they used for that. Ask yourself this. What DOES pulverize shit? I mean turn it to powder? Like we saw.
Grinding MASSIVE amounts of weight!! If you put a billiard ball in a hydraulic vice that has TONS of pressure. What's the result?
Powder. Same thing at WTC.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
And who is that going to be??
Oh wait. Batman!!
(You're on glue!)
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 Dude? you are so badly informed i am not surprised you think everyone and their dog are pulling the wool over your eyes. Go and educate yourself instead of being the "MY GOVERNMENTS OUT TO GET ME". guy that you drone on and on about (and start to look rather foolish in doing it).
Over 20 demolitions companies were involved in the clean up. The steel was RIGOROUSLY examined. Even ID'd down to the FLOORS it came from.
1 Million tons of debris ain't going ANYWHERE fast
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL Yeah? and what of it?
Its not material used to implode a building. No CD tech would ever use it. So the story is meaningless from the get go.
The truth movement tried to burn down a little protest sign with some Thermite to make a point on their on going fight.
It didn't work.
And we are supposed to believe a few buckets full of this shit is going to sizzle away steel columns 4 feet across??
What drugs do you smoke?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@Hotters70603XL One either has to be an idiot or ignorant not to notice that both buildings fail EXACTLY in the manner they were hit. Do you think that is a coincidence? (What a the chances??).
WTC 1 hit square on resulting in half as many floors left above the impact as WTC 2. It lasts the longest. (Coincidence??)
WTC 2 hit off center resulting in twice as many floors above the impact. It collapses first.
Do you see a pattern here that fits EXACTLY the damage?
Logical? RATIONAL!
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 I just think you lot are not very rational people.
Its not a coincidence that both buildings collapse when they do. Look at it!! Examine it!! There is a REASON!! WTC 2? 2x the weight above. Lasts half as long. WTC 1 half as much weight above impact area. Lasts twice as long. The buildings have IDENTICAL construction.
That had virtually identical jets hit them. Makes sense!! When examined. Both buildings even come down CONSISTENT with the location of the damage
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 NIST has recently released videos of witnesses accounts of explosions but your news media doesnt report it!
Oh. So someone is going to say they heard explosions and you blame the media for not reporting it? And we have how many excellent quality videos of the WTC coming down? 2 dozen?? Some taken 800 feet from the tower. High explosives? Shape charges?? One charge!! Let alone half a dozen more???
Not picked up by high quality news cameras?
Beyond absurd. Been there.
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
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@azar783402 You said it yourself “The steel was weakened by a “rapid erosion event”"
Right. You left out a very important part of that. And BTW it was from the metallurgy report on 7 (Which i saw on a Documentary with the guy on camera).
Rapid erosion event with no thermitic or explosive residues present.
Sorry you were saying?
roquefortfiles 3 months ago
@azar783402 We consider it patriotic to expose evil and wrongdoing in our country.
No. I'd say its more a paranoid obsession with you people. Not based on anything real or concrete.
Does your LOGICAL brain tell you that a building is going to be CD and NOTHING is going to be found supporting that?
America is full of paranoid conspiracy theorists always willing to expand the story because TRUTH is boring and plain and dull.
People like Alex Jones have a career because of it.
roquefortfiles 4 months ago