Japanese Jujutsuka vs Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner - Mortal Kombat

[JonnyWedel]

why would anyone dislike this video. this was a great amateur fight I really enjoyed it at least.

[wtfskateing123]

hes bow legged he couldnt have tapped you out xD

[asian714cali]

fyi gracies didnt invented anything fresh off new most of bjj move already existed in jj and judo

[asian714cali]

18 people are in denial that jj > bjj

[captjack5169]

/yawn

[daddyeyze]

This is amongst the all time dumbest titles ever. Ju jitsu's deepest roots lie in kung fu. I know this upsets the stomachs of al you Gracie dick suckers out there but they invented NOTHING. What you dopes call Brazilian ju jitsu is Asian in origin.

[AmericanAztec915]

@daddyeyze those are my exact thoughts BJJ is a stolen art, it is just the ground work of Kodakon Judo, i practice Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai so i have my own style of kickboxing but i cant say i know American or Mexican Kickboxing(i am mexican american)

[ronki23]

Judo is also better than BJJ at top levels-BJJ starts off quicker to learn but I remember 2 Gracies (either Helio and Carlos or Carlos Jnr and Royce) get schooled by a Judoka in newaza and Yoshida schooled Royce.

Catch wrestling is best though-as long as it has the conditioning that traditional wrestling does

[ronki23]

You're not a JuJutsuka as the Judo already nullified that LOL- traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu would lose to Judo or BJJ because of lack of randori- although JJJ would DESTROY them in street fighting as the techniques are too dangerous-most likely via throat punches/groin kicks/fishhooks/various pressure point pinches rather than throws or locks

[Chubearishere]

@ronki23 wow you people talk so much shit on youtube it's incredible.

[ronki23]

@Chubearishere Tell me what I 'talk so much shit' then-don't tell me, you're studying the history of martials arts,won ADCCs, and International Judo and Wrestling competitions, and fight professionally in MMA LOL

[dku001]

Judo, BJJ, JJJ, doesn't matter! It's not the art, it's the artist!

[elenchus]

Guy in black won when he got that ankle lock. Stupid nonsensical rules keeping us from using really sensible techniques.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@elenchus

No actually he didn't win.

Or else I would of picked him up and slammed him with the failed triangle.

You can't just say someone won because he violated the rules.

I didn't even defend it because I knew it was an illegal move.

[elenchus]

@BlackShinobiShozoku lol, the argument isn't that he won BECAUSE he violated the rules, it's because he would have tapped you out. I can't believe the number of fighters of various disciplines these days that just let attacks happen because they're "illegal." Yeah, that won't have a detrimental effect on your real world fighting ability.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@elenchus

He would have tapped me out?

I've escaped tons of ankle locks. How do you know he would of tapped me out?

And this doesn't effect my real world fighting ability. Because I train in traditional Jujutsu. We don't train to fight in these competitions. I merely do them for fun. I am pretty much the only person besides one other that competes in tournaments or MMA in my school.

So there is no argument here, because you really don't know the background.

[joebeast15]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I am a BJJ guy and I agree with this. Footlocks can go many ways, I have seen people go for footlocks and then they are the ones tapping from a counter footlock. Whatever man he got the tap, he wins, he did well positionally too. Keep it up man, you do well

[danmunners]

@elenchus Kind of like how MMA doesn't let you use small joint manipulation, biting, eye-gouging, groin strikes, etc etc. There's usually a good reason why martial arts prohibit certain techniques. You are not allowed to strike in BJJ tournaments. Does that make BJJ a bad "real world" martial art? Just because one fighting style doesn't allow techniques in competitions is no reason to believe that they don't know how to defend against them or perform them.

[elenchus]

@danmunners Precisely. You learn to fight under very specific conditions. Besides, fighting other trained fighters has almost nothing to do with fighting people who know nothing. You could entertain separate martial arts for each if you wished. You must constantly fight against people from different styles, or even different individuals from each style, even when you're subjected to their rules each time.

[danmunners]

@elenchus Yeah. Fighting on the street is nothing like martial arts.  An experienced street fighter will win against a martial artist nearly every time because they will not fight fair. They'll bring friends, they'll use weapons, they'll smile then stab you in the gut (or shoot you if you're in a country that allows guns). Getting into street fights is always stupid. I'd say the best street martial artists would be runners. Learning martial arts to learn to "street fight" is dumb.

[telemarker93]

@danmunners Pretty good reasoning. This why I am the second best runner on my Cross Country team and Track Teams in long distance to middle distance running and train BJJ. If I am in a street fight, not likely, I am aiming for the nuts or solar plexus of the guy, putting my shoulder into the punch and getting the hell out of dodge. BJJ is for fun/"Play" fights with friends for me. Running is what is going to save my life in a very unlikely street fight.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@telemarker93 You are second best runner? So if your loved ones are ever with you during a situation that calls for self defense. You will be able to leave all of them in the dust to defend for themselves because you are such an excellent runner?

[telemarker93]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Uhh...in that case my dad taught CIA snipers, one of my brothers does BJJ, and we all have done football or other sports. Not really a fair fight even then because there is most likely a gun involved and then It would be better to just give them our wallets. Ta da my loved ones are still alive. Bravado gets people killed.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@telemarker93

Do you think all assaults are they just want your wallet?

They might want to rape your woman.

So you can Hand them your woman.

Ta Da... Your woman probably gets killed, but you are scott free. Unless they want to kill you in order to get rid of witnesses.

The mistake non real martial artist think is that self defense is all about how good thier technique is.

That is why in real tradition based Jujutsu we learn about "Zanshin"

[telemarker93]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Where do you think I will be going exactly?

[elenchus]

@danmunners Don't be silly. So-called "street fighters" don't make a routine of bringing armed gangs. There are plenty of guys who like to brawl without any specific training for it. But if you expect them to behave like a ring fighter, i.e., hang back, figure out an opponent, react intelligently to feigns and so on, you'll generally be mistaken. They behave erratically and if you're in the mindset to dance around for awhile, you can get caught off guard early on and KOed.

[danmunners]

@elenchus Depends on where you live. I grew up in a neighbourhood with lots of gangs. Mongrel Mob and Black Power were the main ones. If they didn't like you, they knifed you. The good "fighters" in the gangs were the ones who would do anything to win. And yes, they rolled with lots of friends. I've done martial arts my whole life. I'd not be dumb enough to fight one of them.

[elenchus]

@danmunners You keep conflating street fighters with gang members. I'm sure there's some overlap, but in English, they don't refer to the same thing. In colloquial English and "martial arts" circles, street fighter refers to a fighter who fights in an unofficially sanctioned way, i.e., outside of a style or official tournament, which generally reduces the number of rules. Street fighters are associated with having no conventional style, although that is not always true.

[danmunners]

@elenchus I was talking about fighting people on the street. The people I have met who have fought a lot on the street (real life, not competitions), are ruthless and usually gang members. You would not get them fighting in a competition. The people you see in martial arts competitions touted as "street fighters" are, as you said, usually just randoms with no martial arts training. Maybe read a bit of this site: nononsenseselfdefense (dot) com.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@danmunners If street fighting is nothing like your martial arts. Than obviously you practice the wrong Martial art for self defense. Although in my martial art school we are trained properly on how to effectively defend ourselves and our loved ones. So I don't think your last statement is correct. Nor does any Military or Law enforcement.

[elenchus]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I once cross trained at a good judo school and everyone had that mentality. I'd be tapping them out left and right wit leg locks of various kinds and they'd just chill and after tapping say "didn't count." It's the ground fighting equivalent of TKD rules. No punches to face! So I'll just learn to never defend against face punches and train that mentality daily.

[elenchus]

@elenchus Update since I posted that. I took up judo again at a much better local school. It's much less hardcore, and, as a result, people learn much faster and the skill level is higher. In addition, since they aren't obsessed with competition victory, they don't rely on arbitrary rules nearly so greatly and after class greatly relax what techniques are prohibited.

[ashk0n]

@BlackShinobiShozoku slamming is illegal you would have lost

[Blackouttsi2]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Was it illegal because he crossed his leg over the knee or was it because ankle locks in general are not allowed?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Blackouttsi2 Ankle locks weren't allowed at that rank.

[detoxmka]

@Blackouttsi2 Yeah it could have been becasue when you cross the knee you "reap the knee" which is illegal

[carlos0259774]

@elenchus white belt are not allowed to do any ankle or achilles leg lock. IBJJF rules

[Grinder116]

@carlos0259774 Actually as far as I know IBJJF allows the straight ankle lock (which the guy in the black gi used) for white belts?! at least, that was what I understood when reading the rules. Therefore I did not understand why the fight was stopped at that point

[UppaCutZz]

MUTE THE FUCKING MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!

[predator777]

OMG THE ARMBAR AFTER DE TRIANGLE CHOKE OF BLUE FIGHTER IS A PIECE OF SHIT AJAJAJAJAJAJAJ



[Alien666H]

shitty techniques + shittier music = this video SUX

[TENNSUMITSUMA]

the amount of times he could have slammed him is ridiculous

[4c00h]

Anyone else finish the video cause of the music?

[1991mummy]

@mrdubcrazy That's what Jiu Jitsu is all about. It is meant for fighting on the ground.

[mrdubcrazy]

im sooooo bored of watching 'Ju Jitsu' fights on youtube where they just end up on the ground for an hr! Bullshiatt!

[MedicineApe]

Good move on the arm there

[hibyeeee2]

What's the difference between brazilian jiu jitsu and Japanese Ju Jitsu?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@hibyeeee2 I will send you a message.

[hibyeeee2]

@BlackShinobiShozoku ok thanks bro I appreciate it.

[mannyStern]

i loled at the hook attempt

[ajizzlejiujitsudog]

An alliance white belt with equal experience to you would put you to sleep. What weight class are you and how long have you trained?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ajizzlejiujitsudog

The guy who beat me was from Alliance, but he won by stalling me. I know I could of beaten him with more time. This was a long time ago. I'm not even in the same weight anymore. I'm two weight classes up. This was lightweight.

[ajizzlejiujitsudog]

@BlackShinobiShozoku What weight class are you now then? Are you competing at lutdor at the beginning of august? Where have you competed since this tournament?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ajizzlejiujitsudog Two weight classes up. Middleweight.

No I don't competitions much. Not many Jujutsuka from Japanese lineage do competitions, because it doesn't fit the philosophy. As it is only seen as a game. So the only competitions I am doing this year are one in Birmingham, AL in July. Then I MIGHT do one in October @ NAGA southeast.

[Houseoferebus]

I am a purple belt in BJJ. If you have been training only for a short time then congrats. WHat i hate though is when I see Judo black belts enter bjj white belt matches and think they are doing so well cos they win...stupid. what I also hate is seeing BJJ white belts being white for 5 years and then proud to win against guys with less than 6 months experience. Its all relative, and most importantly..never underestimate your opponent. How long have you been training JJ?

[TheRviva]

True, the results were the same. Who beat you in the final? Another white belt.

Now, where's the video of the match?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva read my other video. camera ran out of memory. so theres only 30secs of it.

[TheRviva]

@BlackShinobiShozoku camera ran out of memory huh? How convenient. Anyway, instead of putting a simple title like "My first BJJ competition as a JJJ guy" or something innocuous, you chose something as controversial and provocative as "Japanese Jujutsuka vs BJJ guy", and conveniently only put in the parts where you did well (ego-stroking) and hide the parts you got beat (ego-preservation). I guess humility isn't something you've learned from your art, or maybe, it's just you.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva

I didn't hide anything. if I was... I wouldn't of said I lost.

So really the Modus Operandi doesn't match up here. If I truly wanted to stroke my ego, hide things, and make myself look good. I would say... "I CAME IN FIRST AND BEAT ALL OF THEM WITH EASE. LOOK AT HOW MUCH BJJ SUCKS" - But I didn't.

I posted this video for all the hundreds of BJJ people who think their art is superior and etc.

If that's not you, then this video is not for you.

[TheBigDead0ne]

@BlackShinobiShozoku @therviva There is no BEST martial art. If there was,we'd all know if by now,but everybody claims that their martial art is best. But what really counts is what you put into your training,so the real question is "WHO'S the best practitioner?"

[TheRviva]

seriously? u beat a BJJ WHITE BELT and you posted this video to show your art's superiority?

anyways, wrestlers and judokas often beat BJJ white belts in competitions, too. The difference is that they don't post their videos and brag about it using a Mortal Kombat music.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva

With all the factors of this fight.

Yes... I proved a lot.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva

Especially when you have a 4 month yellow belt from an art that doesn't even train for these competitions.(Like they do)

Had no coach(Like they did)

Nor know how the BJJ point system works(Like they did)

While this is a 4 stripe white belt... which is almost blue belt in BJJ system.

In this video I was still FAR from anything of Blue belt.

But how typical of BJJ practitioners to come on here and get angry. If you don't like the music turn your volume down. The results are the same

[tomgibson605]

@TheRviva wrestlers and Judokas often beat BJJ black belts to

[TheRviva]

@tomgibson605 Yup they do. Then again, just for shits and giggles watch?v=lUNgJPsUb1A

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva That video is misleading. BJ penn is wearing a white belt because he doesn't rank in Judo.

[TheRviva]

@BlackShinobiShozoku That, and BJ Penn was wearing a white belt b/c he was a BJJ white belt back in 1997.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TheRviva Oh well, what does posting this video prove?

[thepushfitzy]

way to beat a white belt

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy ...and I was a yellow belt

[patrickhenrysghost]

@thepushfitzy They are both novices. And he DID do a great job. BlackShinobi,working submissions from pins is by far the best way to beat BJJ guys. I'd recommend working on throws and landing into Kesa Gatame. Good stand-up= land into uber dominant position+lots of time to think about what you are doing while putting your opponent in a 100% defensive position.

[thepushfitzy]

@patrickhenrysghost Kesa isn't all that great of a hold to use on a good BJJ guy. It gives up the back, which the judo players (black and brown belts)I have wrestled with, don't mind giving up so much. In fact, though BJJ and Judo come from the same origin, kesa isn't focused on much in BJJ and is thought of as a less superior technique. When I get to that position I use an under hook to the outside arm. This makes it really tough for your opponent to move around.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy Actually when done correctly.

Kesa is a very good hold. I have had no one take my back while they were in my kesa gatame.

In fact when I get someone in Kesa they normally don't get out, and I finish them.

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Go to a BJJ club and see if you put Kesa on a purple, brown or black belt. Then, get back to me. its probably a good technique against judo players but not in high level BJJ. That move was weeded out within BJJ's first generation. I've trained some Judo and have a lot of respect for it but its less superior on the ground. I was taping Judo black belts when I was a Mere BJJ blue belt(the first belt you get). I know what I do from years of training and being open minded.try it

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

I've already done it.

I've been to just about every BJJ club around here and I easily pin them in Kesa. Like I said if it's done right... It's a very strong pin. I actually get them in Kesa easier than those at my school. And if they do manage to escape they don't get my back. Because 1)It's hard enough to escape the pin... for them to get my back when I can easily just move into "Mune gatame" is just silly. THe reason why you get Judoka -cont

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Dude, you have to stop grappling with white belts and telling everyone that you can take a BJJ man on the ground. Iv'e watched your videos and you not very good. I think your lying anyway. They don't pin at BJJ schools. If you got them there, they would just stall. Mune Gatame has its wholes to against a BJJ man. It's easy to pull guard unless you have a BJJ top side game.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

I'm not very good by BJJ standards of ground game. But what I do is effective to the point that it allows me to beat BJJ guys. Under BJJ rules it makes it harder since I have to play their game, but I know how to win and I've beaten more than just BJJ white belts. Not to mention I don't see the complaint here. If BJJ is as good as you say it is... I shouldn't be beating BJJ guys who have longer experience than me. For instance -cont

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

That's great you're an instructor, but it's not really hard if you're an instructor. It's hard because your art doesn't train you for it.

It may also be hard for you and me to do a tornado kick.

Because our arts don't train us for it.

But I find Kesa Gatame to easier to get on Brazilian JiuJItsu than guys in my dojo. But we primarily don't focus on newaza... especially from the bottom. Because we prefer to be on our feet or on top of you.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

Btw I'm not offended. If I was offended I wouldn't be taking this time to say all this.

[thepushfitzy]

Respond to this video... First, I'm not trying to offend you.. its just you can't pull kesa on a bjj guy that is good. They will turn in and get their hips out before you can pick up the arm. The head grab is no good without the arm. I'm an instructor dude, what do you want me to say. I love judo. Just trying to help you game man.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

You're an instructor for BJJ.(I assume)

"They will turn in and get their hips out before you can pick up the arm"

That's just like saying you can't get side control(mune gatame) because They will get their hips under you before you can lay down on you. Or you can't get an armbar because they will jerk their arm out before you get it. It's very simple... Take them down while maintaining/isolating an arm and pull it and them into you as you land on them. -cont

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy Or if you're on the ground on top in some other pin... And you're able to isolate an arm you can do the same and move into it.

Do you know what I am doing in this video to make it harder for them to escape... that you can't do with your modified scarf hold(kuzure kesa gatame)?

Actually what I constantly tell my sensei and senpai is that BJJ guys do a lot of things that make it less harsh than our randori. I actually feel more comfortable fighting BJJ guys than my own senpai.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

In this video I had about 5months training. The guy in this video is 4 stripe white belt... Isn't that someone who is about to be Blue Belt in your ranking system? That means he had way more length in training than I did.

I even had a guy there that I fought with tell me he had been doing it for 12months. AND to make it even MORE in my favor. I was least favored to win because I was BY MYSELF... no coach. While everyone else had their team support and coaches. I still beat them.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

Also pulling guard doesn't work on a real Jujutsuka.

Like in this video when he tried to pull guard on me... didn't work. Just got him screwed over in my kesa gatame.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

You were taping out Judoka that don't have much experience outside of typical Judo competition.

If someone starts escaping my Kesa Gatame I easily just move into Mune Gatame. They won't get my back unless I let them or they have small chance of doing so... Just like they have a small chance any other kind of way.

BJJ guys don't do Kesa Gatame correctly anyways. They don't do a lot of things correctly. You don't stay in a static pin like a Judoka is used to; So he can get a count

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I'm glad you agree with me. The Judo black and brown belts I have wrestled with DO NOT have much experience on the ground. Thats my whole point. Todays newasa is getting so watered down by lack of practice.

Why would you let someone have your back anyways. What about a real fight? Thats judo comp only. I would punch you in the back of the head on the street.

BJJ guys do a modified Kesa. It has been improved for competition because the original one sucks for subs.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

Judoka do modified Kesa as well.

In fact the one used in BJJ also comes from Judo. It's called 崩袈裟固 "kuzure-kesa-gatame"

Judo habits aren't great... but their techniques are great for self defense.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy Just like if someone is starting to escape mune gatame. you either readjust or move into a different pin. If someone is starting to escape tate shiho gatame, move into another pin. Judoka get their backs taken because they stay static and then turtle up. I guarantee you if I put you in my Kesa Gatame you won't get my back and you will have DEEP trouble getting out.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy Also Judo and BJJ dont come from the same origin

BJJ originated from Judo.

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Judo was founded in the 1880s from jujutsu(samuria martial art). The guy who brought it to brazil was a Kosen Judo type guy. The kosen style focuses more on ground tech. Modern Judo that is most popular focuses mostly on throws. BJJ is more grappling focused. Within one generation, BJJ soaked up many other techniques from wresting, sambo, catch and any other grappling style you can think of. So they kinda do come from the same origin. Read a book, Wiki it. I did

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

Actually Judo is made up of three ryuha tenjinshinyo-ryu, fusen-ryu, and kito-ryu. And actually not all of these ryuha are from samurai. So no it's not "Samurai marital art" it's traditional japanese jujutsu. Mitsuyo Maeda was not Kosen Judo... Kosen Judo came later when Judo was made popular in High School as Kosen Judo refers to as "High School Judo." Mitsuyo Maeda were one of the four Judoka right under Kano. Pre-WWII Judoka in Japan used lot of ground techniques -cont

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku From Wiki:

When Maeda left Japan, judo was still often referred to as "Kano Jiu-Jitsu", or, even more generically, simply as "Jiu-Jitsu."

PLUS: those judo moves were passed to judo. then handed to brazil. Point is that the moves were around in an origin earlier that judo. So they do come from the same origin. Check Mate

[thepushfitzy]

Respond to this video... I didnt say he was kosen. I said he was kosen type. from wiki "Kosen Judo has the same throws and other techniques as Judo but it emphasizes newaza (ground techniques)"

"Maeda was one of five of Judo's top groundwork experts"

case and point

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy I need to explain Kosen Judo.

Kosen Judo is like Highschool wrestling. Tachi waza is considered harsh and painful.(As a BJJ guy you might not be familiar with this) but it's extremely painful to be thrown over and over and over again. (especially particular throws)

So in Highschool Judo they focused less on Standing and more on groundwork. But now Kosen Judoka whom are now older. Still go on to teach Judo with emphasis on groundwork.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

So this is already after Mitsuyo Maeda became a black belt in Judo.

Pre-WWII Japanese Judoka were commonly seen using newaza. They loved it because they didn't have to be as good standing up. They could just do a poorly attempted sacrifice throw or go into a "pull guard" situation. Which would be legal move in Judo in those days. Mitsuyo Maeda is directly under Kano Jigoro so he is not a Kosen Judoka.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

This is referred to in the Kodokan Curriculum as "Newaza"

So 98% of what BJJ does is from the Kodokan Curriculum. It's simply watered down Judo. Not all "modern" judo is focused on throws. It actually depends on where you are. European and Japanese Judo schools have notoriously good Judoka in newaza. And BJJ is more grappling focused? Uh what? Judo is nothing BUT grappling. lol.

So no BJJ does not have same origin as Judo... BJJ originated FROM Judo. End of story.

[thepushfitzy]

@BlackShinobiShozoku My point is that at by now that BJJ is very different from judo. I'm not going to argue the history of judo. I also know for a fact that bjj has improved submission aspect of judo. it focuses on real fighting. not pinning. you cant pin someone in a fight and say "i beat you" and walk away. bjj guys spend most of their time studying the ground. thats why it is more advanced. i'm not arguing that bjj stand up is better. live into now brother.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

The moves/techniques don't makeup the the art itself. In fact the newaza you see in Judo/BJJ is relatively modern invention by Kano Jigoro. Newaza seen in classical Japanese Jujutsu looks very different. And actually Judo is better equipment for self defense. For the reason that it has stand up technique over ground technique. As a BJJ guy you're used to being on mats. So if a Judoka throws you you're ok. Off the mats the throws are meant to incapacitate. -cont

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@thepushfitzy

Then you can either follow up with a pin to subdue or a choke/joint lock.

You can't really argue history of Judo... It's there and written about. And I am very well versed when it comes to Japanese martial arts.

Have fun, continue training.

[patrickhenrysghost]

@thepushfitzy I agree a lot of Judo players dont mind giving up their backs. I used to do it,now I know to S-mount when others do. It has a lot to do with the whole time alotted thing. When you say,"get to that position", do you mean you are in Kesa gatame,or have it on someone. Because properly executed, you arent giving up your back. Ive actually submitted much larger guys in that position with a trunk strangle.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@patrickhenrysghost

They're not used to defending their backs. Like we are always told... you fight like you train. And many American Judoka do not train in anything besides the usual Judo competition which has a very limited ruleset to the point where its hard for anyone not trained to fight in Judo not to break the rules. Just because BJJ doesn't think something is effective or has weeded out means virtually nothing. BJJ really isn't as great as it gets marketed to be.

[TeHGoodReverend]

Nice sprawl in the beginning! The second I saw that I knew you had the match!

[henh32]

No, I live in Melbourne, Australia and have restarted Judo recently, having previously practised many years ago in my childhood.

Their is much ignorance surrounding the history of BJJ. Many casual MMA fans and BJJ players don't know about the introduction of Kano's Kodokan Judo to the Gracies by Maeda. It is a pity when martial artists do not learn the correct history of their art.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@henh32 The big issue is in America. Judo Newaza isn't concentrated on. Therefore no one really saw extensive judo groundwork. So when the gracies came along and exposed groundwork. All of Judo newaza was attributed to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Fortunately in Japan and European places. They know that it comes from Judo, because they were already heavily focused on Judo Newaza.

[pcjudosambo]

@BlackShinobiShozoku yap, that's true. My coach is a 6th degree belt in Judo and a Master of Sports in Sambo (aka 2nd-3rd degree black belt). He trains his students 50% standup and 50% newaza. These Judokas/Sambists go on to win against top level BJJ guys all the time. American Judo is horrible in newaza but BJJ guys definitely woke them up. Now many Judo clubs are getting back to newaza... about time.

[TeHGoodReverend]

@BlackShinobiShozoku This is 100% spot on. I remember when I practiced Judo I came across alot of well lets just say "ignorant" people(although what I want to call them is something more obscene ;) ), who claimed that BJJ was invented w/o the help or influence of Japan.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@TeHGoodReverend lol

Some BJJ guys don't really mean to be ignorant on purpose. They're fooled by their school. I've seen some schools that completely obscured the true history of BJJ. And made it seem like BJJ comes directly from the Samurai arts.

[TeHGoodReverend]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Yeah, but some deny it even in the face of facts. That is just..borderline retarded!

[NewGenerationMA]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I work withg a man by the name of Harry Krebs, he has been a legend in Judo for the last 30 years. He's a Judo guy and has no problem with the BJJ guys. It's much like the TKD focussing on kicks from Shotokan. Narowing down is not always a good thing, especially when MMA is teaching to expand. Judo was better rounded as you prove. Nice job. Sonny Hughes does great in BJJ tourneys and has a similar Background in Judo. He's also a black belt in BJJ and has no training in it.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@NewGenerationMA Yep that's exactly right. BJJ came from Judo like TKD came from Shotokan Karate.

BJJ focus a lot of newaza. And TKD focus heavily on kicks. The bad thing is... TKD and BJJ both try to make up their own history and do not give credit from where they came from.

[NewGenerationMA]

@BlackShinobiShozoku in Kenpo we take pride in our history and development. We have Japanese Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Lua, Shotokan, Chinese Kenpo, Hung Gar, Boxing, Wrestling, Muy Thai and the kitchen sink and do not deny it. Why should we? Oh, that's right, MARKETING. We have secret techniques you can only learn from us kinda bullshit.

Keep up the good work.

[henh32]

Nice work. There was an opportunity to convert Kesa Gatame to Kata Gatame. But the arm lock worked very nicely and was decisive.

My Judo instructor is a Kodokan 7th Dan and focuses heavily on Ne Waza.

PS. Funny how the UFC generation doesn't realise how long Ne Waza has been around. As far as I know, armoured samurai didn't exist in Brazil. Ha Ha.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@henh32 Do you live in the US?

Well this type of complex Newaza came from Jigoro Kano. Koryu(ancient) Jujutsu schools didn't have such complex newaza. But yes it definitely predates Brazilian Jiu JItsu. The sad part is... some Brazilian Jiu JItsu schools talk about how they come from Japanese Jujutsu developed by the Samurai. Which is FLAT OUT lie. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has no association with Japanese Jujutsu. And comes directly from Judo. Thank you for compliment

[Dooshtv]

good job guy ....

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Dooshtv

Thank you very much.

[ValkyereHowie]

Also I eventually want to learn Judo's standing techniques also, so beginning the Japanese terminology in Kosen Judo would be a big help also!

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie Japanese terminology in Kosen Judo?

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I just mean I eventually want to learn the traditional Kodokan Judo also when which I will surely need to understand the basic Japanese terminology involved and if I was also practicing Kosen Judo for a solid ground grappling focus I would be consuming at least some of the terminology along the way in Kosen Judo.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Oh I just meant the common Japanese terminology used in the average Judo classes. I would like to actually learn Japanese eventually but I need to learn Spanish first.

[ValkyereHowie]

Popularity or size have no reflection of the abilities of a martial or dojo so I definitely wouldn't consider that to be a factor against your school! Lol. I am very interesting in possibly Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Kosen Japanese Jujutsu once I obtain my Shodan in Shorin-Ryu. I think Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the whole MMA stuff is great, as long as you actually go through the hard work with a traditional martial art first, the ideology in my mind is SO important. And the techniques 10/10.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie

If you decide to go for Japanese Jujutsu. Give me a notice. I will help you find a legit Japanese Jujutsu school in your area. Because there are a lot of places that claim to be Japanese Jujutsu(but have no lineage leading back to Japan).

I'm pretty good at distinguishing that.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Thanks man, I'd really like to add in Kosen Japanese Jujutsu for a solid ground grappling base with my Karate, but I can't seem to find any traditional Japanese Jujutsu studios around, yet Kosen Jujutsu! It seems near impossible! All are Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, I wanted to do Kosen Jujutsu for the same traditional Japanese terminology + ideology and philosophies but I just can't seem to find even one. It's absurd really!

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie You must be thinking of Kosen Judo. As there isn't such thing as Kosen Jujutsu. Ground fighting (Ne Waza) like what you see in this video was developed by Judo. Kosen Judo is pretty much means "Highschool" Judo. If you're looking for traditional Japanese Jujutsu. It will normally have Japanese lineage. For exaple

Takenouchi ryu Jujutsu

Ryu meaning "flow or lineage"

Another example is

Jikishinkage ryu Aikijujutsu

etc etc.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Oh sorry, lol I just realized that because I believe they said Kosen Judo is focused on Ne Waza to ensure it was as safe as possible for teens to practice, taking out the chances of injury while being thrown or takendown. Would you say Jujutsu is more focused on Ne Waza than Judo or even Kosen Judo? I was thinking of eventually adding in Judo for the standing grappling and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Kosen Judo for focused ground fighting, but if Jutjutsu is ground focused great!

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie Traditional Jujutsu does no have much focus on Newaza. As far as any Newaza in Traditional Jujutsu goes as far as kneeling position(Seiza position). The type of groundwork you see in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu comes from Judo. Kosen Judo isn't different from Judo. Kosen Judo has to deal with a type of "Ruleset" used in Highschool Judo. Many people often confuse that. Judo curriculum contains Newaza as seen in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie The issue is... In America. Tons of American Judo schools do not focus enough of Ne waza and focus more on Tachi waza(Standing techniques). A good Judo school should focus on Ne waza as much as their Tachi waza. So when you say "Kosen Judo" and/or "Judo" you're speaking about the same thing.

But in Traditional Japanese Jujutsu... you won't fight on the ground. You only finish them on the ground. Watch my video about Takenouchi ryu /watch?v=tQXtTxJ7_nA

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Alright I'll check that video out and thanks man! Yeah that was why I was concerned and kind of want to do regular tactics Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Kosen Judo because it seems 80% is Tachi Waza and 20% Ne Waza in most Judo clubs these days. And with my Shorin-Ryu Karate I would exactly need to rely on standing grappling, however it would also be great to know since our grappling in Shorin-Ryu is very simple and 75-90% striking.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku That's one reason I kind of don't get why 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' is called 'Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu', it is just Judo with ground focused tactics and is really no different than Kosen Judo.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie

Yes it is pretty much Judo... with a bit of a different philosophy and some different techniques.

Also many people won't understand what you're saying since "Kosen" Judo is just a ruleset of certain judo competition. There are many Judo schools with heavy emphasis on ground techniques. ( Ne Waza)

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Exactly, that's why if there are no other choices I guess I'll just do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, however I would much prefer to practice Kosen Judo for the ground emphasis yet traditional ideology/philosophies and because I think Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has taken much credit shihan Jigoro Kano deserves away from him! Helio Gracie has become an icon, which is great, but Jigoro Kano seems to have been lost in the sands of time!

[CYM2407]

@ValkyereHowie you could look to do a koryu, or a traditional form of Aikido (eg Yoshinkan). Yes, the focus is on tachi waza, but that's because going to the ground is certain death on the battlefield. That said, the principles still work on the ground, it just depends on what you want from your martial arts studies.

It *is* sad that Jigoro Kano isn't as well known as Helio Gracie, but those who seek will find the truth. Gambatte.

[ValkyereHowie]

I didn't know that Aikido was resourceful with its' techniques on the ground. I agree, in almost all cases I would assume you would want to avoid using ground work due to possibilites of being easily killed if you are fighting multipule opponents or are taken by suprise by an additional opponent you did not see, when which head stomping or otherruthless attacks would be horrific! But now days I believe it is nessisary to have a good ground tehcnique also with the current ground fighting craze.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie

Ground techniques developed for modern unarmed combat are very useful, since fights can easily be taken to the ground. You just have to be self aware and aware of your surroundings. Because you dont' want to spend time on the ground if your opponents buddies are nearby. It may not be a good idea to go to the ground at all. But if the situation allows for it, it is a very easy way to control someone and do what you need to do to them.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShoz Yeah that is how I feel about ground fighting also, it looks like a lot of fun and VERY important if the fight goes to the ground, but I would never use it as my main or only method of self-defense. Since I have my Shorin-Ryu Karate for striking and some basic standing grappling I really want to learn Ne Waza, especially since the recent ground grappling craze has brought forth many expert ground fighters and it seems like a lot of fun, but also would like to learn Tachi Waza.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie Ground grappling craze was already going on in Japan pre-WWII.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu introduced it to western culture. Japanese Judoka tend to be VERY good on the ground.

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I didn't know it was also kind of a tactical phenomenom in pre-WW2 Japan. Guess it will be hard to figure how which are the best on their focus of Ne Waza but definitely not impossible! Lol. Will probably search for BJJ or Judo, hopefully Judo if possible, once I get my Shodan in Shorin-Ryu, testing in February. Have to focus very much on my cardio and endurance for test because it is 3 and a half hours long! Ah! Lol.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie You cannot practice Kosen Judo. Kosen Judo is ruleset of competition held in lower grade schools of Japan. The only Judo there is, is kodokan Judo. If you want to learn Judo newaza, than find a "Judo" school that has heavy emphasis on newaza(ground techniques).

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku Oh, you would think they would have Kosen ruleset Judo studios out there for those whom want to learn the standing techniques but focus on the ground techniques, that's weird. I guess finding a Ne Waza focused Kodokan studio is the next best though! Lol.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@Valkyere The only way to find out is to know someone or go visit the school. There is a Judo school around here who is affiliated with us.(Their Headmaster is a dan rank in our Jujutsu system). He is considered newaza specialist. I've trained with him at his school. And he is VERY good on the ground. He utilized ground pins/positioning that I rarely ever see used. There are a lot of techniques on the ground in the Kodokan curriculum that get overlooked by majority of Judo schools in America

[ValkyereHowie]

@BlackShinobiShozoku I mean I would much rather practice Jutjutsu than Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, just for the cultural/ideological/philosoph­ical aspects if Jujutsu is focused on ground grappling. And as I understand Jiu-Jitsu is nearly identical to Kosen Judo and even very similar to Jujutsu, because well really only differences are in tactics and in name lol.

[WilltheWriter]

I like how you stayed calm during that triangle attempt. You've got some great habits and really good jits. Congrats. :)

(the ref stopped that ankle lock so I'm guessing they weren't allowed?)

Good stuff, man! I remember the days lol...

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@WilltheWriter Good observation. Yes when I first got locked into the triangle. I had to slow my thoughts down from 100mph to 20mph. The thought of "I'm trapped, I might as well go ahead and give up" crossed my mind once he got my arm across. But then I had revelation of "No, I have to represent my school." Normally I would neck crank to escape, but its illegal move here. So I stack him on his head for the crank and then drive my elbow into his triangular crouch area. He relieved the triangle.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@WilltheWriter The ankle lock was an illegal move in that division. That's why I didn't even really waste energy responding to it. lol. His failed triangle sucked up all his energy. While I still had plenty. I have improved so much since then. I am ready to go back and get gold medal this time. :)

Also going to do a Judo Tournament as well.

And then I'm going to hold off on sports for awhile(Do it again later). Because Sensei says sports can make you develop bad habits for reality purposes.

[ValkyereHowie]

Nice work man! You escaped that triangle pretty well. I thought you had the armbar half way through or so for sure! Lol. I practice Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Karate but can't wait to add some Jujutsu to my knowledge base. Are you doing Judo? Or is it traditional Japanese Jujutsu?

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie I am from Akayama ryu. We have traditional jujutsu lineage, but we also have modern arts like Judo and Tomiki Aikido.

So here I was using a lot of the Judo Newaza which is integrated in our curriculum. I might post the most traditional side of what we do later on when I feel more fluent in the techniques.

[BlackShinobiShozoku]

@ValkyereHowie To be honest our classes aren't big or popular.(which I kinda like it that way) A lot of the people that come in seem to think Jujutsu is like what they see in MMA. And we do traditional Jujutsu and sword kata. So the traditional aspect appeals to very few people around here, because I think they want Brazilian Jiu JItsu. And they get us confused with them. I love the traditional etiquette and techniques. It's just beautiful and fluent.