Magnet Test on a Real and Fake Engelhard 100oz Silver Bar

[patrick258181]

Did you find that fake on purpose or did you get ripped off??? That would be an expensive lesson. Either way thank you for showing me the cheap way.

[MrGreco2100]

What are some legitamite sites to buy silver.

[patrick258181]

@MrGreco2100 Scottsdalesilverdotcom, APMEXdotcom, Perthmintdotcomdotau,usmintdot­gov

[heroinjapan]

"Silver is diamagnetic, meaning that a magnet will not stick to it, but you will feel strong resistance when moving a strong magnet on the surface of the silver. Although lead is also diamagnetic, it is much less so, as this video shows."

This seems counter intuitive. I interpreted "resistance" as the kind of magnetic resistance you feel when trying to fit two + magnets together (they repel each other, and hence if silver had this quality then a magnet would slide off it quickly.

[medabrundibar]

@heroinjapan The resistance is caused by eddy currents induced in the conductor when the magnetic field changes. The current value depend on the magnet strength, speed and the electrical conductivity of the metal (till depth about an inch).

Force is then result of the currents and magnet strength.

So this test in fact compare the electrical conductivity - the silver is about 15x better conductor than the lead, causing the way slower speed.

[datzfast]

i have seen it slide very very slowly on aluminum on you tupe. so what is the fake is aluminum and lead?

[ebayisajoke]

glad I didn't buy anything from this company

[GalaticTG]

damn dude i'd be pissed if i bought a 100 ozt fake bar.

[ebayisajoke]

yeah apmex is a rip

[noudo25]

So did you buy that fake one on an accident and get screwed? Or did you get it just for the demonstration?

[RagingBubuli]

Hey try manget on a Copper Core!

[k98killer]

Two words: coffee-cup calorimetry.

[urkingod]

how did you ended up with a fake ? I hope you did not get ripped off for 100 oz !

[Larkinchance]

Real silver glows in the full moon

[RaMpAgExMoDz]

thats a $4500 bar D:

[JFreedom28]

@RaMpAgExMoDz Where are you getting your silver prices? It's actually more like $3100 - $3300 for a 100 oz. bar.

[RaMpAgExMoDz]

@JFreedom28 i sent u a link

[JFreedom28]

@RaMpAgExMoDz lol You're joking right? If you were going to buy silver, you would buy it from Amazon? Seriously? And you would be willing to pay $1300-1400 more than you would with any real PM dealer? Please do yourself a favor and don't buy PM's from Amazon...

[RaMpAgExMoDz]

@JFreedom28 lmao ur so stupid i simply did a google search and saw that a single bar of silver was selling for 4500. why the hell would i want a 100oz silver bar anyway its a pointless waist of money

[schizrade]

@RaMpAgExMoDz A "waist"? LMAO, dumbass.

[RaMpAgExMoDz]

@schizrade "waste'' happy now princes?

[crazygermanboy93]

How strong must the magnetic flux density be to test silver?

[novicemilk]

Just got a dealer and have it x-rayed. And that 100oz bar looks too shiny. Anything above 1 kilo or 100 oz is usually ugly cast silver.

[fifh89]

the death penalty should also apply to counterfeiting

[vid009]

currious ! how did you get a hold of the fake bar ?

[anthcybo]

Did you pay full price for that fake silver bar just to make this video?

[rei9707]

Wow I didnt even know that they had fake Engelhard silver bars, I thought that they were pretty reliable.

[b11v51q68y]

So where are these fakes available from? I'm scared of buying silver now.

[SurvivalGrounds]

@b11v51q68y just buy 1oz round and test one or two out of what u buy.

[HaloHamstur]

Can you just weigh them? isnt lead going to weigh a lot more when they are the same shape?

[AboutAg]

@HaloHamstur Lead and silver have almost the same density. Lead is slightly denser than silver, but it can be alloyed with another lighter metal so that the density is identical to silver. Therefore, two metal objects of the same shape and size could weigh the same, even if one was real silver and one was not.

[Cloak88]

@HaloHamstur You cant weight them because counterfeiter will drill a hole on the inside of the bar, fill it with the mass (in lead) to synthesize the weight lost in silver, andthen cover the melted silver, thus you never know the bar is drilled out and filled with lead, despite it weighs what it should, hope this helps you so you dont get ripped off.

[ylesfitz8839]

And to keep the angle the same use an object to assure the same distance up, like a stack of DVDs or maybe even something rubber not to drop the bar

[MrMaypole14]

What about just testing it with chemicals, (nitric)

[AboutAg]

@MrMaypole14 Testing with chemicals is good, and will detect many fakes (e.g. most 1oz size fakes, and this Chinese pure-lead fake). However, they will not detect some, such as the Engelhard 'drilled and filled' silver bars (which were real bars, with holes drilled in them and filled with lead). The chemicals won't reach the lead, so they will just see the pure silver.

[okpapereat]

will it work with magnetite?

[memoriesofourpast]

thx sir

[SILVERMAGNETSLIDE]

I have some vids on testing fake silver coins. Chk out my vid. Keep up the good fight against FAKE SILVER!!

[dayadayadaya123]

for the stackable 100 oz Apmex silver bar , do you measure (the thickness) it from the top to the bottom??? The big bar has like a step down, do you start there or from the very top?

[AboutAg]

@dayadayadaya123 I would place the bar flat (as if you were about to stack another on it), and measure from somewhere in the middle of the bar.

[dayadayadaya123]

@AboutAg thank you. I did measure the length , width and height, and everything checked out. It's just that the bar weights 3117 grams, which is 7 grams over, so I was a bit worried. Thanks for the response.

[BiggerThinking1]

i heard plutonium is dimagnetic - maybe rare earth magnets can be used to clean up fukushima?

[TumisHumis]

@BiggerThinking1 Great idea, but leave it to Japan to think of something. THEY'RE CLONING MAMMOTHS!

[crazymanawesomeful]

Where'd u buy them

[AtomicEmporium]

This is actually because silver is the most electrically conductive metal in the world, and a moving magnet near by induces electrical currents in the bar, which in turn create magnetic fields which attract the falling magnet and slow it down because it's sticking to the generated magnetic field in the silver. Diamagnetism is when a metal repels a magnet, and is a very rare trait. Aluminum or copper should have this same effect if you have a thick bar.

[SILVERMAGNETSLIDE]

@AtomicEmporium i thought this originally as well and mentioned such in my videos, but gold, which is also a great conductor, doesn't display this effect. I does have to do with diamagnetism. I suspect the repulsion is enough to slow the moving magnet but not kick it off given the mass of the magnet.

[WhoDaresWins1189]

why didnt you put the 2 bars on the same level stand (eg a book) so u can do the test properly instead of doing it by judgment, you had the fake silver bar on a much higher angle than the real one, therfore i will have to confiscate both your bars for further testing of my own, please send them to 74 Royce avenue, QLD Australia

[bc5620]

how did you get that fake bar? did you buy it????

[hpw59]

How much does the fake weigh and what are its dimensions compared to the published dimensions?

[AboutAg]

@hpw59 You can find the details at About.Ag/Lead100OunceBars.htm.­

[alZiiHardstylez]

How did you afford a 100oz bar? o.O

[MRSketch09]

I feel sorry for whomever bought the 100 ounce fake... Damn.

[beaverbox]

how dose it work ontungsten plated gold n silver bars ??

[AboutAg]

@beaverbox The best test for gold plated (or layered) tungsten bars is an ultrasonic thickness gauge. Using a magnet test might or might not work well as a test, depending on how much gold (or silver) was over the tungsten (the magnet test would work best if you had a sample of a specific fake bar, and wanted to test others to see if they were the same as the fake one).

[SilverInformation]

This is an excellent video. It's now 'favorited' on the Silver Information Network Channel which is the area used for resource material regarding silver. Thank you for making this video.

[JimbobOMG]

Id like to get some of these fake bars for my decoy fire safe...

[AboutAg]

@100silverpizza The people that we know of that bought the fakes got them on an auction site (not eBay). Our goal is to get them marked as 'lead' or 'Pb' (the chemical sign for lead). I am not aware of any being sold on eBay (although it certainly could happen).

[numag1]

This is a GREAT method for testing flat silver. Even coins...if you have small neodynium magnets, which I do ;) Works like a charm. Thanks a lot.

[aaronandnicole]

Is there a big problem with Fake 100 Oz bars out there? If so who is the best online retailer to guarantee that you dont end up with a fake?

[AboutAg]

@aaronandnicole There aren't a lot out there yet. The biggest problem is that if you have 100 1oz coins/rounds/bars, and one is fake, you haven't lost a lot of money. But if you have a 100oz bar and it turns out to be fake, you've lost a lot. No reputable bullion dealer would sell one of these, but it is possible they could let some real ones that were filled with lead in the 1980s slip through. Those may be hard to detect (but aren't common; we haven't found any to test on yet!).

[bigrobnz]

@aaronandnicole Buy from Scottsdale. Each bar is numbered and post is insured. I live in Newzealand and it wasn"t aproblem for them

[SilverMapleLeafs]

I love your video, I collect 100 oz Engelhard bars myself.

[remsensor]

Lead is considerably heavier then silver as well. The best way to tell if silver is real is to get used to seeing it and handling it. After years of doing this you kind of aquire a skill of knowing just buy touching and looking at it. if its real.

[AboutAg]

@remsensor The problem, though, is that while lead is about 8% heavier than silver (lead is 11340kg/m vs silver's 10490kg/m), lead can be alloyed with another lighter metal, such as tin, to get the density exact. An 80% lead/20% tin alloy is simple to produce (4:1 ratio), and weighs 10,528kg/m, or 0.3% more than silver. It is believed such an alloy was used in the lead-filled Engelhard bars (see About.Ag/Lead100OunceBars.htm)­, which even Engelhard had troubles distinguishing.

[1stPlaceDirector]

Some silver bars are not that smooth and shiny, so there would be a lot more friction when the magnet slides. Even the test you show, the angle is critical. It appears to me that the only way to know for sure is to have a genuine bar of the same type for comparison purposes, if using your method. Overall, I don't think your method is that great.

[BigBaldAndBadass]

How about doing a ping test? I tap mine with a hammer and it sounds like a tuning fork.

[MegaDingers]

Interesting tip, thank you. Rare earth magnets are cheap as chips on eBay.

[mtube620]

I still don't understand why the magnet slide down slower on silver bar since silver is diamagnetic, it slightly repell the magnetic, henec semi-floating, and with less friction, shouldn't the magnet slide down the real silver bar even faster than on a plastic surface?

[AboutAg]

@mtube620 It is because of an eddy current that is generated when the magnet is moving. The faster the magnet moves, the stronger the current (causing the magnet to move slower down the bar).

[Nomoreidsleft]

Hey, a question for ya. How did you get the magnet off the metal bracket that holds the magnet to the hard drive? It's glue one right?

[Nomoreidsleft]

How can you mistake a lead bar from a silver bar?! This is an interesting demonstration, but not very reliable for testing silver. It would be more reliable to just weigh it, and measure its volume, and then divide the weight by volume to get the density.

[AboutAg]

@Nomoreidsleft Although this bar was noticably light, you can make a lead alloy that has the same density as silver. The best test, though, is the ultrasonic thickness gauge (see the other AboutAg videos), which is one of the few tests that can accurately detect a fake silver bar made of lead.

[SakitSaPuwit]

thank you for your video.

I am just getting into silver and this was very helpful

[oak415]

If anyone is wondering..he got that rare earth magnet from an old 3.5" desktop harddrive. Each HD comes with two of these. Took me about 15 minutes & a couple of stripped screwdriver bits to remove them. It would also help to do the ping & weight test along with this magnet test. Excellent video

[GotSilver100]

Thanks for the video....Check out my New GOT SILVER? shirts on ebay

[oak415]

Would the Hollowed out bars that are filled with lead still weigh the troy ounces stamped on them?

[machinationu]

any thing that conducts will also have "eddy currents" so the lead could be mixed

with copper or aluminum to make up the slide test.

[numag1]

@machinationu No, mixing copper or aluminum with lead would greatly reduce the conductivity. The magnet would slide down MUCH faster.

[Begbucks]

I did a review about your site, I probably should have inquired first about permission to do so. Anyway I was wondering if drilling out a bar with a fine bit would affect the value even if someone retained the shavings.

[AboutAg]

@Begbucks I've heard of people who bought bars from dealers who had drilled a small hole in them. Drilling is a form of destructive testing, so it does reduce the value by a small amount. And does the next dealer trust the hole? If not, and they drill a hole, you now have two holes. Even if it is only, say, 1/10oz of silver, if silver ever became as pricey as gold, that 1/10oz of silver could have a lot of value.

[Begbucks]

@AboutAg You make a good point, though obviously I would retain the shavings, yet other then UST testing is there a inexpensive way to test?

[w0tm]

@Begbucks Mike Maloney of Wealthcycles has the most state of the art non-destructive electronic testing there is. Check his Web site. His testing is the best.

[Begbucks]

@w0tm Will do, thanks.

[spamllpitdept]

@Begbucks - lol, good luck trying to sell anyone a drilled bar. I personally wouldn't buy one and no one I know would either ... just like a bent gold coin.

[Begbucks]

@spamllpitdept Silver is Silver rite? I'm confused, aesthetics aside; why would that deter from the value?

[w0tm]

@Begbucks No way to tell. It bothers some buyers while it gives assurance to others that someone else did testing. Jewelers drill removes so little it is maybe $10 of silver max on a 100 oz bar.  But need to drill multiple holes as they can create void in one area then fill with metal of same weight. Only true tests are electronic. Ultrasound, xray etc. I used such equipment looking for voids in metal in aircraft wings and fuselage. Mike Maloney has all of this equipment in WealthCycles.

[Begbucks]

@w0tm I thought just a a 1/8" hole in position where the lead typically is perhaps 3 times & feel for drill density or residue on the bit indicating lead, not 3 giant boars on the end to disintegrate the goods ~ just to clarify!

[w0tm]

@Begbucks there are a hundred ways to test metals. Only 100% accurate methods are VERY expensive using ultrasound, echograms, etc. Mike Maloney is one dealer who owns all of this equipment. Few others do.

[Begbucks]

@w0tm No easy fix? well I suppose thats a given.

[irishmckiddo]

nice cool

[a10fjet]

i noticed this when i was playing with my silver but i never thought of it as a way to test it, nice work sir

[martinzwanenburg]

thnx dude! you just saved me $800 bucks with this information!

a almost buyed a fake one!

thnx again,good test!!!

[w0tm]

Silver has jumped so much in price and fake 100 oz bars appearing and even one oz coins from China showed up on eBay last month fakes are here. Eagles from reputable source especially if in sealed green monster box from mint 99.999% chance you are OK.Too many ways to fake 100 oz bars. If in doubt I would pay professional like Mike Maloney who has echogram, ultrasound etc.equipment. He tests EVERY way to fake a bar.Worth the fee IMO.Only buy from long-time dealer and insist coins be "BU" new.

[Killedkennyagain]

@w0tm Buying from a reputable mint and/or dealer is all you need to do. The Chinese fakes are usually excessively cheap, at least the ones I have come across online, if it looks to good to be true then it is.

[w0tm]

@Killedkennyagain usually true. A friend bought on eBay just below spot turned out to be fake. With new techniques so easy to fake and fool most tests I now stick to ASE's only. Can still fake them but very hard and easier to test. Even countries get conned. Don't want to break news so won't name countries but war almost took place when gold was retrieved by major country from another country who had stored it for 50+ years. Turned into tungsten. Had to surrender their own gold. Trillion+

[Killedkennyagain]

@w0tm Haha, "turned into tungsten" Never heard of elemental metamorphoses before. They must have had an Alchemist sneak into the vault! As for ASE, those .9999 CAD's are pretty!

[w0tm]

@Killedkennyagain Wish I could tell you the story. But it was done with the active participation of the Queen in the U.K., Bill Clinton when he was president (Ft. Knox is almost all tungsten) and other heads of state. Trillions of dollars of gold are now in the hands of the "elite" to finance their "new world order".

[w0tm]

He was pulling all of our legs and he had me fooled at first. Good job! Need some comic relief today. Wat willl cume nixt? I kan''t weight. Seriously, thanks for the chuckle. Also, view YT video

watch?v=XvLxul7CW0Q&feature=up­loademail

for a fascinating process of most minds. I can read it so guess I'm in the group who can scramble their minds when necessary. My wife says my brain is always scrambled so I would probably test #1 out of a million people. I take written notes this way.

[redmatrix]

One thing to get straight is that "pulling" 2 magnets apart requires a LOT more force than "sliding" them apart. You can slide (ie: separate) two n40 magnets with just one hand, if they are the same size as is apparently used in this video.

In conclusion, if you can separate two magnets by pulling, not sliding, them with one hand, then they are probably not strong/big enough for this test.

[jgoemaat]

This makes a case for perhaps buying bars with a serial numbers. You can exchange the # with seller before buying, then you should be able to recover your money through ebay or paypal fruad departments. Is there an easy way to detect a bar filled with lead?

I'd be interested in the most hard to fake silver product would be - I'm guessing the mint and feds would prosecute fakes of 1oz silver eagles and wondering if perhaps the older 90% junk silver would not be worth or too hard to fake?

[Chefy620]

so did engelhard ripped you off on the other 100 oz bar?

[vorkev1]

ok you are totley rong i use the same magnets you do from old hardrives and if you are strong you can pull them apart i do it all the time and i do not clame to be a musle man. and as you can tell buy my spelling i dount clame to no how to spell neather but i hade bad teachers growing up.

[AboutAg]

@vorkev1 I apologize if I was not clear. The magnets I am referring to are extremely difficult (or impossible) to pull apart with just one hand. If you can pull apart two magnets with a single hand (I.E. using your fingers), then either they are not strong enough to use to test silver with, or you are a lot stronger than I am. :)

[georgemargaris]

I just tested this on a pure silver and pure copper bar

both have the same speed how the magnet goes down.

[AboutAg]

@georgemargaris That is very useful information; I confirmed this testing with a copper bar here. Copper, too, is diamagnetic, and a strong magnet will move down a copper bar slowly.

[georgemargaris]

@AboutAg thank you.

Copper is in the same column on the periodic table as silver and gold, this might be the reason why it acts the same!

1 kg copper needs more space/volume than 1kg silver, so you would have to do additional "volume-testing".

[jellybean2626]

@AboutAg the resistance of both are nearly the same.

[numag1]

@georgemargaris That's because pure silver and pure copper have very similar conductivity. Silver is slightly higher. So they both produce similar eddy currents when you move a strong magnet over them. That's why the magnets slides down both at about the same speed.

[georgemargaris]

thank you for this video. Valuable information!

[AboutAg]

It is best to buy a strong magnet (strong enough that if you have 2 stuck together, you cannot get them apart using just one hand), and then experiment with real silver so that you know how it feels. Then try on some other type of metal that the magnet does not stick to, to compare the difference.

[j510t]

so when you say there would be a resistance you can feel, would a strong magnet actually push away say something like a silver chain? ive never heard of this i always thought it was just not magnetic period excluding resistance. anybody who knows please reply asap, im exchanging my fake silver for real at a local jeweler tomorrow.

p.s know any good stores for strong magnets? i heard sears and radioshack had some? thkns

[JohnStriderofDoom]

Great demonstration About.Ag. And greetings from Kitco!

[AboutAg]

We are hoping to do some more videos helping show how to detect fake 1oz coins/bars (including pictures of some of fake coins).

[Titanium783]

Hi, great series. Could you do a similar set of tests to show how to spot fake silver rounds? Specifically, Canadian Maple Leafs, American Eagles, and Austrian Philharmonics? There are a lot of fake Eagles floating around, and I'd suspect most new small buyers would gravitate to the coins rather than the 100oz bars. You'd be doing them a great service. Thanks!

[numag1]

@Titanium783 If you buy a really small flat neodynium magnet, it will work with maple leafs and eagles just as well. I tried it. Works great.

[Titanium783]

Hi, great series. Could you do a similar set of tests to show how to spot fake silver rounds? Specifically, Canadian Maple Leafs, American Eagles, and Austrian Philharmonics? There are a lot of fake Eagles floating around, and I'd suspect most new small buyers would gravitate to the coins rather than the 100oz bars. You'd be doing them a great service. Thanks!

[100THMONKY]

See, no one is interested in finding out they are being fooled. This video has been up a month and only 552 views. They guys that sell you silver and push for JPM crash get thousands of hits. APMEX USES JPM as their bank. So if fake silver has circulated before, what makes you think APMEX isn't selling fake silver too. CRASH JPM is a scam if they don't mention to avoid APMEX or any other company affiliated with JPM. I've hit up some of the top silver pusher guys on YT about this. NO ANSWERS

[Anothercoilgun]

Good looking out.

[AboutAg]

This is one of several bars that were sold to people for a bit less than the spot price (about 10%-20% less). One of the people was kind enough to let us borrow one for testing.

[Itsjames1]

Was this a fake bar someone sold to you for a spot price?