1) I am curious about other communication courses please mention others if you know of them.
2)The TR's are free on the internet(freezone) so that's not expensive. I'm not saying that it is the best (CC) out there-I don't what is.
I'm just saying that while it is difficult, it can be good and far from the sweeping generalization of CD. I know I could've communicated my argument more effectively, but I try. Also this brings up the point of personal limitation. Some people will...
...never be good or great communicators even with practice. But that being said, I don't think any errors of my argumentation in these few comments are the result of sitting with my eyes closed across from someone, staring at them too long, or yelling at an ashtray. Does that make sense? I just saw this as another example of people making arguments from the point of view that, "If the whole of something isn't true, then none the parts can be either". And I don't agree with that.
I often debate with CoS members. Alongside fundie Christians they are the absolute *worst* debaters even when I urge them onto their winning points.
Now, if you were effectively communicating a debate point about CD's statements you could have made an effective argument by stating a simple statement such as:
"CD used sweeping generalizations about CoS members [insert example]--then stopped.
Knowing CD--he probably would have conceded the point.
It's very simple. Communication remains a valuable purpose as long as it manages to continue to place money from point subject A to point B Being the quick funneling of cash to point C Church thus increasing the Ca$hable net profit. Secured communications confirms any successfully received monetary funding via proof of a bank register money statement.
Ha, so true. They are horrible at it, they aren't even allowed to communicate to each that much. Because of their cult environment and constant refusal to acknowledge the outside world, they can't talk to others without fixating on the greatness of Scientology. I still remember that video where the guy was talking to an ashtray.
Does Jason Beghe seem like his ability to communicate with the outside world has been "completely and utterly destroyed"?
Scientologists can communicate, and in some cases well/very well, with the outside world-if they couldn't they wouldn't be able to pull off all these hijinks to keep their organization afloat and all their former members turned critics wouldn't be able to speak out in a way that anyone could understand. No exageration is needed to expose this organization.
Speaking well publicly isn't necessarily communication.
They pull the hijinks off because they divert during speech, intimidate and use threats. It just happens they are often good enough at it to not get caught. As most sociopaths can, as well.
Charm and charisma are often mistaken for truth and kindness.
Once the pattern is "outed" it is much more difficult for people to be conned by such verbal antics.
"speaking well publicly isn't necessarily communication"?
Give me an example of someone who is speaking well that isn't also communicating.
Plus crazydelany isn't just talking about OSA and the SeaOrg, he's talking about anyone who does the communication drills/TR's.
In order to bankrupt his argument all you have to do is find one person(and I'll bet you find hundreds of thousands or more) who have done the communication course and can communicate better than the level of...(continued below)
For a more immediate example I have done some of the TR's and I don't think that the above quote of delany would be even close to an accurate description of my ability to communicate (although my punctuation is fucked most of the time in written communication but that has nothing to do with TR's).
I challenge him to break it down drill by drill and explain precisely how that course produces the effect he claims.
For a more immediate example: I have done some of the TR's and objectives.
I believe that I am a living refutation of his argument. BTW Tory Magoo likes the comm course. She even volunteered in OSA-can she not communicate? Get real.
I think the CoS needs to be brought to it's knees. I am NOT promoting scientology.
But I do think some critics try to unnecessarily invalidate all things scientology.
This doesn't need to be done to fuck up the Church.
I happen to believe there are better, cheaper training courses. Toastmasters is free for example. Some people are well enough read and well-spoken enough before they ever start.
If there was true research that *proved* the course was better than the cheaper alternatives--I might be inclined to agree with you.
And the comm course is the first step in the CoS door. I'd urge people to find an alternative to that step no matter how CoS sells it.
There is a difference between talking, and communication. True communication is not a passive sport--it's active.
The problem with the "communications course" is not designed for two or more participants, it's designed for one person to thoroughly dominate the discussion.
Let me clarify my earlier statement.
"Speaking well publicly is not necessarily EFFECTIVE communication."
Good points made.
gg0u41bb 3 years ago
As usual, under-watched and under-rated. Sooo frustrating.
usaforeveryours 3 years ago
AnonOutreach:
1) I am curious about other communication courses please mention others if you know of them.
2)The TR's are free on the internet(freezone) so that's not expensive. I'm not saying that it is the best (CC) out there-I don't what is.
I'm just saying that while it is difficult, it can be good and far from the sweeping generalization of CD. I know I could've communicated my argument more effectively, but I try. Also this brings up the point of personal limitation. Some people will...
icyadore 3 years ago
...never be good or great communicators even with practice. But that being said, I don't think any errors of my argumentation in these few comments are the result of sitting with my eyes closed across from someone, staring at them too long, or yelling at an ashtray. Does that make sense? I just saw this as another example of people making arguments from the point of view that, "If the whole of something isn't true, then none the parts can be either". And I don't agree with that.
icyadore 3 years ago
icyadore:
I often debate with CoS members. Alongside fundie Christians they are the absolute *worst* debaters even when I urge them onto their winning points.
Now, if you were effectively communicating a debate point about CD's statements you could have made an effective argument by stating a simple statement such as:
"CD used sweeping generalizations about CoS members [insert example]--then stopped.
Knowing CD--he probably would have conceded the point.
That is effective communication.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
Sorry for double posting. I thought I lost my third post.
icyadore 3 years ago
make sure you watch thid video from cultupdate,Mind Control - Hubbard explains Scientology
BlueAsbestosCosBlues 3 years ago
It's very simple. Communication remains a valuable purpose as long as it manages to continue to place money from point subject A to point B Being the quick funneling of cash to point C Church thus increasing the Ca$hable net profit. Secured communications confirms any successfully received monetary funding via proof of a bank register money statement.
GreatestPotential 3 years ago
Ha, so true. They are horrible at it, they aren't even allowed to communicate to each that much. Because of their cult environment and constant refusal to acknowledge the outside world, they can't talk to others without fixating on the greatness of Scientology. I still remember that video where the guy was talking to an ashtray.
ScriptKidNoob 3 years ago
Does Jason Beghe seem like his ability to communicate with the outside world has been "completely and utterly destroyed"?
Scientologists can communicate, and in some cases well/very well, with the outside world-if they couldn't they wouldn't be able to pull off all these hijinks to keep their organization afloat and all their former members turned critics wouldn't be able to speak out in a way that anyone could understand. No exageration is needed to expose this organization.
icyadore 3 years ago
icyadore:
Speaking well publicly isn't necessarily communication.
They pull the hijinks off because they divert during speech, intimidate and use threats. It just happens they are often good enough at it to not get caught. As most sociopaths can, as well.
Charm and charisma are often mistaken for truth and kindness.
Once the pattern is "outed" it is much more difficult for people to be conned by such verbal antics.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
"speaking well publicly isn't necessarily communication"?
Give me an example of someone who is speaking well that isn't also communicating.
Plus crazydelany isn't just talking about OSA and the SeaOrg, he's talking about anyone who does the communication drills/TR's.
In order to bankrupt his argument all you have to do is find one person(and I'll bet you find hundreds of thousands or more) who have done the communication course and can communicate better than the level of...(continued below)
icyadore 3 years ago
"completely and utterly destroyed".
For a more immediate example I have done some of the TR's and I don't think that the above quote of delany would be even close to an accurate description of my ability to communicate (although my punctuation is fucked most of the time in written communication but that has nothing to do with TR's).
I challenge him to break it down drill by drill and explain precisely how that course produces the effect he claims.
icyadore 3 years ago
"completely and utterly destroyed".
For a more immediate example: I have done some of the TR's and objectives.
I believe that I am a living refutation of his argument. BTW Tory Magoo likes the comm course. She even volunteered in OSA-can she not communicate? Get real.
I think the CoS needs to be brought to it's knees. I am NOT promoting scientology.
But I do think some critics try to unnecessarily invalidate all things scientology.
This doesn't need to be done to fuck up the Church.
icyadore 3 years ago
icyadore:
I happen to believe there are better, cheaper training courses. Toastmasters is free for example. Some people are well enough read and well-spoken enough before they ever start.
If there was true research that *proved* the course was better than the cheaper alternatives--I might be inclined to agree with you.
And the comm course is the first step in the CoS door. I'd urge people to find an alternative to that step no matter how CoS sells it.
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
There is a difference between talking, and communication. True communication is not a passive sport--it's active.
The problem with the "communications course" is not designed for two or more participants, it's designed for one person to thoroughly dominate the discussion.
Let me clarify my earlier statement.
"Speaking well publicly is not necessarily EFFECTIVE communication."
AnonOutreach 3 years ago
Another good analysis.
I'd love to see what Delany has to say about the TR courses, which consist essentially of days and days of non-stop hypnosis.
anon8109 3 years ago
thanks, the "allergy to BS--just spilled my soda everywhere" lol
MARYBLEUZ 3 years ago
I know when you have that "look" your pissed!
Just keep gettin' better and better Delaney, would love to hear you speak at a protest!
MARYBLEUZ 3 years ago
Once again 1get.
sffgvcb1 3 years ago