I dare one of you--especially the video maker's--to refute the following using legitimate empirical data: 1). Water rights issues and a multi-year drought account for at least 2/3 of reduced water supplies for West Side farmers. 2). Despite water delivery losses, the affected area experienced their highest earnings/production ever.
Unfortunately, the one-sided nature of this video will convince countless people ignorant of this issue to believe the culprit is a little fish.
Do you live in the Fresno area? If you do, I would love to meet with you . I would like to hear where you got this BS info. Its obvious to me that you are an ideologue who has a hard time time dealing with the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you and your beliefs. God damned Bozo!
"...a stupid fish" typical remark from someone who obviously has no real respect for the environment and has little understanding of the repercussions from the destruction of this delicate interdependence- hope people like this die from their own pesticides. Technologies are available that could help the situation but farmers/the public wish not to invest in sustainable farming practices which would include letting the damn go; LA would be SOT.
@mictheorist Immigrants are going to save the average citizen's rear when it comes to Social Security and the Baby boomers... Illegal Immigrants pay alot in FICA... Immigrants decide not to claim the FICA because they either have a fake SSN or no SSN...
When Americans go shopping, we cannot afford to buy and eat fresh fruit and vegetables. No one talks about the fact that large farms are owned by CORPORATIONS. Just to buy an apple is $1.00 in most stores. Buying sour grapes cost $4 a lb. Buying one bell pepper cost $2.00. The answer is obvious that these farmers are making such a PROFIT from using these illegals, that they don't want to hire legal Americans. Farmers pay illegals $3-4/hour and no health benefits. Minimum wage is $12/13 hr.
These growers and workers have become dependent on a government subsidized projects. If you want more control over your business, pay for your own water projects. Fact: 75% of water "shortage" attributable to multi-year drought.
The fact that someone would use the term "illegals" to describe migrants workers demonstrates how hatred, ignorance, and intentional political polarization on this issue continues to make effective change impossible. Heck, I would be a farm worker if it was a decent job. Let's examine WHY there is demand, not just blame our fellow humans who want a decent life like any fellow global citizen. Who owns all that land? What policies support agribusiness? Where is the FAMILY FARM?
@iwustudent101 Free immigration is anything but free, well to those that are here legally anyway. We keep paying and paying they keep taking and taking and coming and coming.
We can't allow local cities to make sanctuary cities policies, because they will bring our inner city turf wars to epic proportions by bringing in the drug cartel and Columbian gangs. (Mexican Gangs don't recognize US borders established Treaty of Guadalupe) C SPAN "Black Republican Forum" Session 2 (begin at 11:30) Allen West stated part of Amnesty of 1986 was to secure our borders and enforcement our laws, but haven't happened. (We're still talking about new amnesty like DREAM Act.)
2/2 In November 2010, 15.1 million were unemployed (9.8%). 154 million are able to work in workforce (15.1 million/9.8%). GOOGLE “illegal immigration counters”, There are 11,941,812 (or 11.9 million) skilled jobs provided to illegal immigrants. the 15.1 million unemployed could take the 11.9 million available jobs. The unemployment rate could be reduced to 2.1% {{15.1-11.9)/154}.
1/2 Immigrationcounters com 97% illegal immigrants are from Mexico. Illegalimmigrationstatistics org $1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals. 51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
I strongly disagree with your opinio.n I lived in california for 15 years and my parents were illegal immagrants they did nothing but work very hard. now we live in mexico.( oh by the way we dednt get deported we left because of people like @EyeLuvUSA. I am sure that no anglo american will work in fields ,orchards under a 100 degree+ california sun getting paid minimum wage. if it wasnt for illegal immagrants california would not have the strong agriculture income it has now. think about it!
i strongly disagree with your arguement. i used to live in california for 15 years my parents were illegal immigrant workers, they never did anything but work very hard, now were living in mexico, oh and by the way we didnt get deported we left because of opinions like yours. I would like to see an anglo american working in the fields under a 100+ degree california sun getting paid minimum wage. If it wasnt for illegals california would not have the success in agriculture that it has now.
@iwustudent101 This nation belongs to those that will defend it's borders just like your home and property belong to you as long as you insist and enforce your property line "border".
Only two ways will the flood of immigrants (legal and otherwise) stop. 1. We enforce our borders or 2. The nation eventually becomes so unbearably crowded, impoverished and depleted that no one else wants to come. World growth rate of 1.9% equals 600 billion people by the time the U.S. is twice as old as today.
With Reason's videos, the question isn't *if* they're misleading. The question is, can you name *all* the ways the video is trying to mislead?
I list a few of the ways their video is misleading (and anti-American) here:
24ahead . com/n/10313
If you trust anything Reason tells you, check it out. And, see their name's link in that post for many other posts showing how they're wrong going back several years.
@iwustudent101: your "free movement of people" would give foreign governments like China and Mexico tremendous political power inside the U.S. and would have aspects of an occupation. That loss of power would be against the wishes of virtually every American and would have huge costs for them.
Your plan is traitorous. I don't know if you're actually a prospective traitor; I think it's just that you're too dumb to understand the impacts of your plan.
@mictheorist That market is no longer what it once was because there are so many unemployed Americans now. Plenty of them would be happy to do landscaping, car washing, dishwashing, housekeeping, etc. to keep their homes and feed their families. (There'd be a whole lot more if our government would stop extending unemployment benefits!)
3/3 C SPAN “Black Republican Forum” Session 2 (begin at 11:30) West said one of the 1986 caveats was to secure our borders, enforcement our laws, but we’re still talking about new amnesty like DREAM Act. We can’t allow local cities to make sanctuary cities policies, because they will bring our inner city turf wars to epic proportions by bringing in the drug cartel and Columbian gangs. (Mexican Gangs don’t recognize our borders established by the Treaty of Guadalupe)
2/3 In November 2010, the unemployment rate was 9.8% with 15.1 million unemployed. (15.1 million/9.8%) = 154 million are able to work in the workforce. 11,941,812 (or 11.9 million) skilled jobs provided to illegal immigrants. GOOGLE “illegal immigration counters”, the 15.1 million unemployed could take the 11.9 million available jobs. The unemployment rate could be reduced to 2.1% {{15.1-11.9)/154}
1/3 Immigrationcounters com 97% illegal immigrants are from Mexico. Illegalimmigrationstatistics org $1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals. 51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
@mictheorist Alcohol prohibition was a stupid idea... just like our war on drugs. You see, a lot of people want alcohol, drugs and sex so they're going to do whatever they can to get them. It is very hard to stop something that Americans want.
Americans DON'T want illegal aliens so getting rid of them wouldn't be hard IF we enforce our laws. The majority of Americans want them stopped and out of our country and I'm betting they'd have no problem turning them in to get them deported.
@mictheorist You seriously don't see the difference???? LOL
Illegal immigration is not a 'black market'... they walk openly in our streets and work illegally in our businesses. They wouldn't be hard to deport if we enforce our current laws.
Our immigration problem could be stopped in short order if we simply militarized the border. If we were locked, loaded and ready to shoot ANYONE who sets foot on our soil illegally the illegal aliens, drug smugglers and terrorists would be stopped.
Legislation that social services must be provided to everyone.
Woops, that costs too much, have to blame someone. How about those immigrants that are using those social services?
How about simply eliminating the social services. Abolish the laws that force taxpayers to subsidize sub-standard schooling for "everyone", just as one example.
Mass Amnesty is a death sentence to the American economy, whereas a needs based guest worker program with zealous monitoring and enforcement will keep America productive. There are those who would argue that illegal immigrants have the right to work. That is partly true. The whole truth is that they have the right to work in their country of legal residence.
The farmers here get hogtied by worthless governmental regulations; they can't even access their own water supply. Instead, off it goes to supply the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Come to think of it, businesses in California are overregulated and overtaxed to the point that it's a wonder any of them survive, especially the smaller ones. There isn't a welcome mat in California for them! So please don't lump us all together-we aren't all liberals.
Legal US citizens don't want to work for near slave wages and those jobs won't ever pay a fair wage as long as their are illegal immigrants willing to undercut them.
Half of my family is latino. I love Mexican culture. I have no ill will towards anyone based on ethnicity. I just want to see my fellow US citizens make a good salary. No amnesty. Punish employers who hire illegals. Deport illegals. Defend the border. Enforce existing laws.
The argument that only illegal immigrants will do the farm labor work is bogus. Illegals are the only ones who will work for such little pay. If farmers paid better Americans would do farm work.
@HoldingOnToLiberty People act like their are no guest worker visas but we do have (and have had for a long time) visas for guest workers. Those and citizens or legal residents are the only people who should be working in our fields or anywhere else in our country. Once we get rid of the illegal alien INVADERS who are not entitled to work in our country then we could see about adding more guest worker visas if needed.
@furyofbongos: a lot of libertarian patriots are heading to Somalia to start communities. It's the last bastion of freedom, a place where young libertarian men can finally be free of both government and of restrictive social codes. Run wild and free, young libertarian!
Also, since it's about to scroll off the screen, here's why Reason is misleading you:
24ahead . com/n/10313
Libertarians, supporting subsidies? Yep. See the link for the details.
This is what you would call quality journalism. Reason does better investigative stories than major news outlets! They also provide better standalone and coherent multimedia. This opinion has nothing to do with Reason's political stance. Mainstream journalism is pure copycat superficiality. The worst aspect of the postmodern media of spectacles is that no one does their homework. They can't even coble together an accurate and comprehensive set of facts before they open their mouths.
@ConservativeMBA If you really look at what our government has done in relation to our borders,you will see that they really don't want our borders secure. Have you heard much about the North American Union?
I can't believe the amount of so called libertarians on here commenting that we should keep out immigrants. To them I say that if you wont work for the wages they're getting paid, the factory's will just move to China or Mexico and then we wont even make money from their retail. Theres no such thing as having your job stolen.
@Vegemighty FYI... we have guest worker visas. In fact, look up 'New Countries Eligible to Participate in H-2A and H-2B Programs' (posted today) on the USCIS dot com website. Mexico and other countries south of our border are listed as eligible so their citizens can get guest worker visas.
@EyeLuvUSA I'm well aware, but these guest worker visa's are in very short supply, and the demand is very high. And whenever you have a government imposed cap set below the equilibrium point, you're always going to get black markets showing up. Its economics.
@Vegemighty There's a reason for the limits just like there's a reason for our immigration requirements/laws. We wouldn't have 'black markets' if would enforce our laws.
I believe they turned the pumps back on, at least for a short while, to bribe the California reps to vote for ObamaCare. Didn't realize they turned them right back off again.
Legal immigration is necessary. However, we can always have a permanent Work Visa program. All they would need is a background check, and a USCIS immigration work ID card. The current system sucks, but that doesn't mean we have to give amnesty to all illegal immigrants. Just give them work visa status, and create a new program. If the want to live here, they can apply after 15 years of working solidly either for the same farmer season after season or the same employer.
@goingalt I agree with you except for the 15 years with the same employer provision. One of America's most prized principles is freedom. The worker should be allowed to switch employers if they want to for any reason they deem fit. Imagine a person that wants to become American but needs to endure 15 years under an unfair employer. They should be allowed to find another authorized employer and their earned time should be allowed to accumulate.
@prek2phd I can agree with that. How about continuously employed (but not necessarily with the same employer), or continuously working season after season with different farmers?
@goingalt I do not see any flaws in that reasoning. That would protect the worker by discouraging abusive employers.Maybe a high employee turnover would indicate a need to investigate the cause.
Jerry Brown is rolling out the red carpet for illegal aliens as we speak. His plan includes making citizens pay even more for the Mexican takeover that will result in the complete re-colonization of the golden state. No holds barred here! Jerry is working on his own version of the dream act, so the children of illegals can jump ahead of your kids and all you have to do is pay for it!
I am all for giving this area water, to improve the lives of AMERICANS, but the heck with ILLEGAL ALIENS. We must do everything necessary to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. We have over 30 guest worker programs, that have been exploited. ILLEGAL ALIEN farm workers, come over on work visas and are suppose to work in agriculture and then, overstay and take factory, construction, and every imagined job, from Americans. Guest worker means: You come to work, when done, you leave.
Aw. More pro-illegal mass immigration from reason.tv. How sweet. It was especially heart warming when illegal immigrants from Mexico murdered my best friend 3 years ago simply because he was white and his girlfriend was hispanic. That just filled us with so much hope and joy. But keep chugging away repeating the lie that 99.9% of illegal immigrants are just peaceful fruit pickers rather than the gangbangers and welfare leechers that they really are. It's what you do.
"Conservative farmer" my ass. You aren't conservative if you're taking subsidies and using ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS over Americans that are desperate for jobs. And the labor cost is a small fraction of the total cost at the market shelf, so STOP LYING that American labor would greatly increase cost.
I'd much rather pay the addition cost at the check out counter than pay more in taxes for AMERICANS being out of work. I generally like ReasonTV but your extreme open borders mentality can go to hell.
@kmg501 ""Conservative farmer" my ass. You aren't conservative if you're taking subsidies and using ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS over Americans that are desperate for jobs." look if your job is seriously endanger of being taken by an illegal because your just a grunt laborer then you should have learn a skill and become successful. If all you are is a vegatable picker then yes you are dispensable. A private business should be allowed to do whatever it takes to cut costs.
What the government giveth, the government will take away
The Ancient Roman Empire. the Mayans, the Aral Sea and the Salton Sea are lessons that salinity from irrigation destroys the fertility of the soil in about 50 years. Right solution, wrong justification.
The government has no right in telling people where they can or cant work, even if those people aren't US citizens. And where the government infringes on liberty we should not follow. So let the "illegal" workers work. I'd hire them myself and give them food from my table if it came to that. If the government banned religion or guns, you would all be out protesting. But banning work and living for a few million individuals is fine because they broke the law. The stupid stupid law
So why do we have these laws in the first place? Remember, we the people made these laws. So if they aren't serving us we the people should change them.
If anyone can work anywhere it creates a security issue. Right now everyone hates us and we can't control our borders. Oh and people can go to another country and effectively rob it of it's resources, by working their illegally without paying taxes and sending all the money back home.
We've built our economy on the exploitation of cheap labor. If these undocumented workers became legal citizens then labor law says you have to pay them at least minimum wage. That to me would be just as bad as kicking them all out because it's going to cause the same exact thing to happen. Companies will have to charge more for products and the consumers will have to pay way more for groceries. And I think under the healthcare bill they will be required to have insurance on their employees.
Maybe the people in California need illegals to pick their damn fruit but we don't need them in the state of Ohio where they take our factory jobs and spit out anchor babies for us to support. No!
@zookeeper220 Relax man. These immigrants are just trying to make a living themselves. Your protectionism is what made mexico such a poor place to live in to start with that they come here for jobs. Didn't you see those videos on here about immigration?
@Vegemighty Relax..do they live all around you? Do their drunken parties keep you awake..no? Are you working..they haven't taken your job yet? Mexico is a shit hole because they made it that way and now they try to do the same thing here. No. I feel no sympathy for them. They need to deport every last man, woman and child back to that hell hole that they created.
@Vegemighty I'm a second generation American of Mexican descent and I agree 100% with zookeeper220. This has nothing to do with race and the real racists are the Hispanics who keep whining about race when they are the ones who have made everything all about THEM. (I won't say about their race because Hispanic, Latino, Mexican, etc. ARE NOT RACES.) Their countries ARE shitholes and it is because instead of staying and fighting to make them better they abandon them to take from our country.
@EyeLuvUSA Once again you hit the nail on the head. It is incredible that anyone that opposes "illegal immigration" is labeled as a racist. This is not a race based issue.
@zookeeper220 We don't need them and don't want them here but our elected reps kiss their behinds because they provide cheap labor. All the libtards in California have done this, starting with Barbie Boxer. I have to live here and put up with their smirking arrogance. I've worked in fields myself. Who did the jobs before the illegals? AMERICAN citizens. Doesn't anyone remember The Grapes of Wrath? It happened! We don't need or want them here but Cali's a libtard state!
@Metallicat100 I agree with you. If California thinks tomatoes come before country then I'd say that would be a stupid argument. As for the $10. tomato..I grow my own..and they taste like tomatoes. I used to pick strawberries, green beanes, apples so I know where your comming from.
@zookeeper220 Yep. I garden extensively every year, can my own tomatoes, peaches and green beans, and love the results I get. The $10 tomato argument is fallacious and serves to incite fear while it hides the real truth. American citizens have been displaced in low-skilled jobs so that our wages can be undermined. This is why I am neither Democrat or Replubican; they both want everything to stay the way it is for their own agendas to push forward.
@Metallicat100 I can truly say that there is nothing better than a red, ripe, home grown tomato, the ones you buy in the stores suck big time. No flavor.
As for Democrats and Republicans, I felt the same way as you before the last elections, but now I'm leaning Republican especially with the Tea Party people. Can't wait to vote in 2012.
@zookeeper220 You got that right; the ones in the store are gassed so that they 'mature' and turn red faster. Just like the beef in the stores is injected with dye to look 'fresher', whereas homegrown beef doesn't look the same. Yuck.
@Metallicat100 I didn't know that beef was injected with red dye. I knew they had added a lot of water to the regular ground beef and we weren't getting our moneys worth.
Hey guess what, back when there were fewer illegal immigrants, my sisters would pick berries in the summer as a summer job. We all had summer jobs growing up. Now do teenagers work? Where do they learn responsibility? THEY DON'T! The jobs teenagers used to do in order to gain experience have been given to illegal immigrants and the authoritarian Fed has pretty much outlawed teenage work. My niece can't even go to her father's office to help him, it's against the law apparently. Such BS!
@shaudee67 I've had several summer jobs while I was a teenager, which was very recently. The immigrants aren't the problem. Its the child labor laws. Many companies would rather not hire teens at all, then to do all the paper work.
@Vegemighty I agree with you that child labor laws are counterproductive and should be relaxed or even repealed. We might even help the obesity problem while we're at it.
Deport those that are here illegally and use machines to do more of the stoop labor. The farmers don't want to buy the machines because they are costly, so they love that the gov. is giving the illegals housing, medical, child care, etc. Just pop out another kid, and cry you want to feed it. This video is BS.
The people we're talking about are NOT "undocumented." That term suggests that these people came here with the intention of providing documentation, but either lost their papers or haven't gotten around to filing them. The people in question are here ILLEGALLY, & never even ATTEMPTED to provide documentation as to who they are, where they're from, what diseases they may have, what they intend to do here, or when they intend to leave, if ever. They're ILLEGAL ALIENS!
But you see, back when the Europeans came over, there were NO LAWS TO BREAK, let alone infrastructure to mooch from!
WE BUILT THE INFRASTRUCTURE
WE MADE A NATION!
WE MADE THINGS BETTER!
Now the primitive want the land, but they seem to invade the areas where we've civilized & create friction with the people who are SUPPOSED to be here! This is now the US.
You're welcome for all the jobs America provides you, asshole. Now go fuck yourself.
"You" burned, raped and massacred a whole pile of different cultures to build your precious shithole.
As far as I am concerned you are welcome to the lot of it.
Point being that you have NO moral high ground to stand on. Illegal immigrants may not have one either, but that does not somehow grant the descendants of murdering invaders some kind of rights to the land they have stolen.
If anyone has a moral high ground to stand on it's the natives.
@bentothetenthpower Not really. Since they didn't develope shit. They hadn't even developed the wheel by the time whites came to the Americas. Nor did they even have a written language. They were blood thirsty savages who got killed mostly by disease. Not genoicde. And the Mexicans aren't "natives". Most are of Spanish white ancestry. And Mexico was an imperialistic European empire as well. And before them, the natives were also savage imperialists. They have no moral ground to stand on either.
@TaskForceSixTwoSix While I agree with most of your points, as a decedent of Mezo-American Indians I do have to make a couple points.
1) There was a written language in Mezo-American, The Aztec, Mayan and other major city building civs used various pictograph writing styles. The nomadic tribes and smaller tribes did not use written language however.
2)And they did have the wheel, however they used it as scientific and decorative, not as transport.
@TheObsidianhunter Yes. I know all about the native language systems. I actually studied it. Was very recently deciphered by white scholars after trying for over 100 years. Interesting stuff.
Who I was referring to were what we call the "Native Americans" or "Indians". Not the Central and South American natives like the Mayans and Aztecs. My cricticism of them is their hypocriitical complaining about white European colonization. They too were imperialists and often more evil than the whites.
Your right about their imperialism. I got in to an argument with one kid a few years back. He went on about how the Spanish destroyed the Aztecs. I asked how did a dozen Spaniards with highly inefficient rifles take down a civilization. He had no idea, he actually thought the Spanish had vast armies in the Americas. he had no idea the Spanish made allies with the local tribes the Aztecs had subjugated for over a century and started a rebelion!
This isn't a matter of "immigration" - it's a matter of trespassing. Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Living in America is a privilege & responsibility - it comes by respecting & upholding the Constitution, the law of our land, which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country, & contributing to the society that will lend support right back. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!
Your psychological analysis of me is delusional at best. Let's see :
Canada's gov't is undermining its ppl while you remain dependent upon American jobs. They have cut spending on education, nearly ELIMINATED loans for higher education while stunting the growth of your job market by only expanding min wage jobs offering no benefits. Canadians struggle to find the means to eat, much less pay rent. Toronto has become cesspool.
It's amusing to see you bow out after flaunting your stupidity & failure then laying it on me with the accusation of "trolling." Bravo to you! Now do the world a favor & go earn yourself a Darwin Award so you won't further contaminate the gene pool more than your parents already did by birthing trash like yourself.
A shame that you're too retarded to actually attempt trolling me with something offensive & instead parade your animal instincts & personal hatred of desiring people to die. This is why you deserve to be euthanized along with everyone genetically related to you - children included. Every chance we have to eradicate the propagation of your family's genetic failure will be a blessing to humanity & a favor to Mother Nature.
@bentothetenthpower TheTortugaTanker Copies-N-Paste the same comments on every video. he considers himself a 'troll' when really, his an old fag .. old ass dude haha
The Europeans don't care about a "stupid little fish"? If there is any area of the world that has seen and coped with green concerns it is Europe. The difference is, they force their governments to come up with a realistic engineering solution.
I find the delta smelt argument funny, how can you take jobs for a small fish? How about cause it feeds bigger fish? We allow the big fish no food by killing off the smelt wave goodbye to the $4.9 billion per year annual sport fishing industry plus the lose to commercial fishing, at which point it is no longer even an environmental question but a purely economic one.
Our immigration in the US in retarded. Turning a bind eye to billions of people braking the law is just retarded.
@dwoods828 Most environmental organizations like green peace and World Wildlife Fund get most of there funding for individuals. Damn individuals donors of millions of people, building a giant global conspiracy to take people jobs...
What's wrong with enforcing immigration statutes? I'm a legal immigrant. Why should others be able to cut in line? To legally reside in this country, I had to learn English, American history, and the U.S. Constitution. I also had to take an oath of allegiance. This procedure can only preserve and protect our unique American experiment. I'm proud to be an American. Viva USA!
@ejsecco There are some of us that believe that the immigration process has been made overly complex and difficult. Further, we believe that ANY overly complex process will simply encourage a black market, and criminalize people who are not naturally criminals.
It's great that you got in legally, and we're happy to have you, but the system is broken. Some people are threatened by competition; true lovers of liberty embrace it because we know that competition breeds great things.
Your unique american experiment began when people were allowed to migrate to the Americas, no fences erected and no passports needed. Your American History lessons were, apparently, difficient.
@ejsecco Thank you for respecting and loving our country and people enough to come to our country legall and most of all to join with us as an American. It is people like you who have made our country great. Immigrants don't sneak into a country like thieves, march in the streets waving their flags while telling the citizens to "Go back to Europe!" and DEMAND to be allowed to stay. Those are the actions of INVADERS and invaders should be stopped and deported!
@ejsecco The problem with enforcing immigration statutes is the an ethnically motivated group realizes that there is strength in numbers. Politicians must walk the votes based tightrope to remein in office. This is a good reason to limit politicians to one term. Then they would be free to do their job because they would no longer fear the voting power of a divisive group.
I really do not understand the point of this video. Is it pro-slave? the farmers need illegals working the fields to make money, and oh there is this fish thing... and I was an illegal but now I am a good person ....
What is the wage paid to the farm workers?
We have 14% unemployment here in FL I am sure we can work something out .... but I think a business model has been created on the backs of modern day slaves that will not support the use of American born, lawful workers and a living wag
It's called infrastructure and it's limited. We can't take everyone and these criminals shouldn't be allowed to cut in line when there are people that wait 5+ years to get citizenship. Kick the criminal aliens out and get rid of minimum wage laws.
Seems like alot of people here aren't aware of how the food chain works. It's not just the fish.lol. Still sounds like typical environmental lawyer bullshit though.Our government pays them to sue people whether they win or not.They should be able to minimize the damage to the fish population easily. That doesn't benefit their pockets though. What do those workers get payed? I've worked harder than that for $160 a week. Maybe they work for free? Americans would do the work,just not californians.
The delta smelt is kismet. The Fates are paying those farmers back for exploiting Mexican labor. If they'd pay what the work is worth, Americans would do the jobs. Screw those farmers, screw those illegal aliens, and, especially, screw that stupid fish.
"If they'd pay what the work is worth, Americans would do the jobs."
You mean, if they'd pay more than the work is worth, then Americans would take the jobs. This may sound crass, and the work may be hard, but the work is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. You want the lowest possible price on produce at the grocery store, yet you also want "fair" wages for the labor. You can't have it both ways.
Illegal Aliens/Undocument Workers/Migrant Workers, or whatever term is being used... Whatever happened to the notion of work visas? We cannot absorb the lowest economic layer of the Mexican economy and not pay drastic consequences, which is about 1/7 of their country.
We're watering down the mean wage that is being paid to our lower economic class every time we let more illegals into this nation. Thus, the "rich get richer" as labor costs dwindle for them.
It is simply another example of why majority rule is messed up. The majority haven't got a clue about farming or even care about maintaining farms here. The farmers are in the minority and will continue to be out voted into extinction. And when food prices start climbing the ignorant masses will blame the farmers that they voted out of business.
@mathers3000, really? Run by fox? At least present an argument to as why these regulations are necessary, not just throw around words you heard from some propaganda.
sorry for typoes, on a phone. these regulations make it unviable to hire legally so they have to resort to the black market to obtain labor. also when the govt is giving nearly 3 years of unemployment benefits where will you find a legal worker. to do the work?
@ForTehNguyen Exactly, many people don't start looking for work until their benefits are about to expire. It makes sense since most of the jobs that are available pay so little and the Unemployment Benefits pay more than a full time job waiting tables!
Unemployment just lets people live beyond their means for another couple years, not a whole lot of people cut back like they are unemployed until after the benefits run out!
@ForTehNguyen Exactly! If shoveling shit pays $2/hr then that is what the job is worth. If you've got illegals willing to shovel shit for $2/hr then why would you hire someone legally at $7 or $8? If we let the market do it's thing jobs will come flocking back. But as long as Unions and governments have their greasy fingers in business forcing the cost of doing business through the roof then companies will continue to move jobs outside the country!
illegals are hired because of min wage laws and over regulation to begin with. these costs make it ujviableto hire legally, guess what happens they have to go to the black market for l
I dare one of you--especially the video maker's--to refute the following using legitimate empirical data: 1). Water rights issues and a multi-year drought account for at least 2/3 of reduced water supplies for West Side farmers. 2). Despite water delivery losses, the affected area experienced their highest earnings/production ever.
Unfortunately, the one-sided nature of this video will convince countless people ignorant of this issue to believe the culprit is a little fish.
sicko1021 2 months ago
@sicko1021 Ok you stupid COMMUNIST!!
Phishphantom 5 days ago
@Phishphantom
Do you live in the Fresno area? If you do, I would love to meet with you . I would like to hear where you got this BS info. Its obvious to me that you are an ideologue who has a hard time time dealing with the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you and your beliefs. God damned Bozo!
sicko1021 5 days ago
"...a stupid fish" typical remark from someone who obviously has no real respect for the environment and has little understanding of the repercussions from the destruction of this delicate interdependence- hope people like this die from their own pesticides. Technologies are available that could help the situation but farmers/the public wish not to invest in sustainable farming practices which would include letting the damn go; LA would be SOT.
lopezfamily411 2 months ago
What the fucked is wrong with the cow at approx. time 1:05 min.? It looks like it was bred with a lamb.
MylaLonelySoul 5 months ago
@MylaLonelySoul it is saying give me more subsidies, I'm a long way from Eau Claire Wisconsin. Gimme!
danno321s 2 months ago in playlist Best Hidden Gems from 2011
@mictheorist Immigrants are going to save the average citizen's rear when it comes to Social Security and the Baby boomers... Illegal Immigrants pay alot in FICA... Immigrants decide not to claim the FICA because they either have a fake SSN or no SSN...
MendotaTech 5 months ago
When Americans go shopping, we cannot afford to buy and eat fresh fruit and vegetables. No one talks about the fact that large farms are owned by CORPORATIONS. Just to buy an apple is $1.00 in most stores. Buying sour grapes cost $4 a lb. Buying one bell pepper cost $2.00. The answer is obvious that these farmers are making such a PROFIT from using these illegals, that they don't want to hire legal Americans. Farmers pay illegals $3-4/hour and no health benefits. Minimum wage is $12/13 hr.
MsPamAnn 5 months ago
fuck the delta smelt. farmers here in fresno county are loosing lost their farms because they had no water to grow aything...
luis3826 6 months ago
Seriously?????
ReasonTV making a one-sided propaganda piece.
sicko1021 8 months ago 2
@sicko1021 _ Go fuck off Obama cock sucker!
Phishphantom 5 days ago
Yet another example why socialism doesn't work.
These growers and workers have become dependent on a government subsidized projects. If you want more control over your business, pay for your own water projects. Fact: 75% of water "shortage" attributable to multi-year drought.
sicko1021 8 months ago
The fact that someone would use the term "illegals" to describe migrants workers demonstrates how hatred, ignorance, and intentional political polarization on this issue continues to make effective change impossible. Heck, I would be a farm worker if it was a decent job. Let's examine WHY there is demand, not just blame our fellow humans who want a decent life like any fellow global citizen. Who owns all that land? What policies support agribusiness? Where is the FAMILY FARM?
Boogers82 10 months ago
@mictheorist You've got to be joking. Do you even understand why minimum wage was put in place??
BfeoAdmin 11 months ago
@iwustudent101 Free immigration is anything but free, well to those that are here legally anyway. We keep paying and paying they keep taking and taking and coming and coming.
domesticpuke 11 months ago
We can't allow local cities to make sanctuary cities policies, because they will bring our inner city turf wars to epic proportions by bringing in the drug cartel and Columbian gangs. (Mexican Gangs don't recognize US borders established Treaty of Guadalupe) C SPAN "Black Republican Forum" Session 2 (begin at 11:30) Allen West stated part of Amnesty of 1986 was to secure our borders and enforcement our laws, but haven't happened. (We're still talking about new amnesty like DREAM Act.)
Gracelandification 11 months ago
2/2 In November 2010, 15.1 million were unemployed (9.8%). 154 million are able to work in workforce (15.1 million/9.8%). GOOGLE “illegal immigration counters”, There are 11,941,812 (or 11.9 million) skilled jobs provided to illegal immigrants. the 15.1 million unemployed could take the 11.9 million available jobs. The unemployment rate could be reduced to 2.1% {{15.1-11.9)/154}.
Gracelandification 11 months ago
1/2 Immigrationcounters com 97% illegal immigrants are from Mexico. Illegalimmigrationstatistics org $1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals. 51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
Gracelandification 11 months ago
I strongly disagree with your opinio.n I lived in california for 15 years and my parents were illegal immagrants they did nothing but work very hard. now we live in mexico.( oh by the way we dednt get deported we left because of people like @EyeLuvUSA. I am sure that no anglo american will work in fields ,orchards under a 100 degree+ california sun getting paid minimum wage. if it wasnt for illegal immagrants california would not have the strong agriculture income it has now. think about it!
pochitaliciousa 1 year ago
@pochitaliciousa very true!
cmadera94 11 months ago
i strongly disagree with your arguement. i used to live in california for 15 years my parents were illegal immigrant workers, they never did anything but work very hard, now were living in mexico, oh and by the way we didnt get deported we left because of opinions like yours. I would like to see an anglo american working in the fields under a 100+ degree california sun getting paid minimum wage. If it wasnt for illegals california would not have the success in agriculture that it has now.
pochitaliciousa 1 year ago
humans > crappy little fish
rambo26 1 year ago
We need agricultural robots!
Portable Electronic Drone Robotic Operative or PEDRO.
;) lol
Wasp16mm 1 year ago
@iwustudent101 This nation belongs to those that will defend it's borders just like your home and property belong to you as long as you insist and enforce your property line "border".
Only two ways will the flood of immigrants (legal and otherwise) stop. 1. We enforce our borders or 2. The nation eventually becomes so unbearably crowded, impoverished and depleted that no one else wants to come. World growth rate of 1.9% equals 600 billion people by the time the U.S. is twice as old as today.
tomintroy 1 year ago
With Reason's videos, the question isn't *if* they're misleading. The question is, can you name *all* the ways the video is trying to mislead?
I list a few of the ways their video is misleading (and anti-American) here:
24ahead . com/n/10313
If you trust anything Reason tells you, check it out. And, see their name's link in that post for many other posts showing how they're wrong going back several years.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
@iwustudent101: your "free movement of people" would give foreign governments like China and Mexico tremendous political power inside the U.S. and would have aspects of an occupation. That loss of power would be against the wishes of virtually every American and would have huge costs for them.
Your plan is traitorous. I don't know if you're actually a prospective traitor; I think it's just that you're too dumb to understand the impacts of your plan.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
@mictheorist: great idea! You let us know when the welfare system and the minimum wage are abolished, and then we'll open the borders!
Well, go on! You've got work to do! A lot of work.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
@mictheorist That market is no longer what it once was because there are so many unemployed Americans now. Plenty of them would be happy to do landscaping, car washing, dishwashing, housekeeping, etc. to keep their homes and feed their families. (There'd be a whole lot more if our government would stop extending unemployment benefits!)
At least we do agree 100% on abolishing welfare.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
3/3 C SPAN “Black Republican Forum” Session 2 (begin at 11:30) West said one of the 1986 caveats was to secure our borders, enforcement our laws, but we’re still talking about new amnesty like DREAM Act. We can’t allow local cities to make sanctuary cities policies, because they will bring our inner city turf wars to epic proportions by bringing in the drug cartel and Columbian gangs. (Mexican Gangs don’t recognize our borders established by the Treaty of Guadalupe)
.
Allen West 2012
ThunderheadNebula 1 year ago
2/3 In November 2010, the unemployment rate was 9.8% with 15.1 million unemployed. (15.1 million/9.8%) = 154 million are able to work in the workforce. 11,941,812 (or 11.9 million) skilled jobs provided to illegal immigrants. GOOGLE “illegal immigration counters”, the 15.1 million unemployed could take the 11.9 million available jobs. The unemployment rate could be reduced to 2.1% {{15.1-11.9)/154}
ThunderheadNebula 1 year ago
1/3 Immigrationcounters com 97% illegal immigrants are from Mexico. Illegalimmigrationstatistics org $1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals. 51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
ThunderheadNebula 1 year ago
@mictheorist Alcohol prohibition was a stupid idea... just like our war on drugs. You see, a lot of people want alcohol, drugs and sex so they're going to do whatever they can to get them. It is very hard to stop something that Americans want.
Americans DON'T want illegal aliens so getting rid of them wouldn't be hard IF we enforce our laws. The majority of Americans want them stopped and out of our country and I'm betting they'd have no problem turning them in to get them deported.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
@mictheorist You seriously don't see the difference???? LOL
Illegal immigration is not a 'black market'... they walk openly in our streets and work illegally in our businesses. They wouldn't be hard to deport if we enforce our current laws.
Our immigration problem could be stopped in short order if we simply militarized the border. If we were locked, loaded and ready to shoot ANYONE who sets foot on our soil illegally the illegal aliens, drug smugglers and terrorists would be stopped.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
The problem is because of legislation.
Legislation that social services must be provided to everyone.
Woops, that costs too much, have to blame someone. How about those immigrants that are using those social services?
How about simply eliminating the social services. Abolish the laws that force taxpayers to subsidize sub-standard schooling for "everyone", just as one example.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
Haha! California is going to wash into the sea. Thanks to the actions of its own legislators, it seems.
hannas1234 1 year ago
Once again the liberal/progressive agenda kills. Emotion over facts.
dynamitemike65 1 year ago
Mass Amnesty is a death sentence to the American economy, whereas a needs based guest worker program with zealous monitoring and enforcement will keep America productive. There are those who would argue that illegal immigrants have the right to work. That is partly true. The whole truth is that they have the right to work in their country of legal residence.
prek2phd 1 year ago
The farmers here get hogtied by worthless governmental regulations; they can't even access their own water supply. Instead, off it goes to supply the Bay Area and Los Angeles. Come to think of it, businesses in California are overregulated and overtaxed to the point that it's a wonder any of them survive, especially the smaller ones. There isn't a welcome mat in California for them! So please don't lump us all together-we aren't all liberals.
Metallicat100 1 year ago
Legal US citizens don't want to work for near slave wages and those jobs won't ever pay a fair wage as long as their are illegal immigrants willing to undercut them.
Half of my family is latino. I love Mexican culture. I have no ill will towards anyone based on ethnicity. I just want to see my fellow US citizens make a good salary. No amnesty. Punish employers who hire illegals. Deport illegals. Defend the border. Enforce existing laws.
astronato 1 year ago 3
The argument that only illegal immigrants will do the farm labor work is bogus. Illegals are the only ones who will work for such little pay. If farmers paid better Americans would do farm work.
HoldingOnToLiberty 1 year ago
@HoldingOnToLiberty People act like their are no guest worker visas but we do have (and have had for a long time) visas for guest workers. Those and citizens or legal residents are the only people who should be working in our fields or anywhere else in our country. Once we get rid of the illegal alien INVADERS who are not entitled to work in our country then we could see about adding more guest worker visas if needed.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
@EyeLuvUSA Exactly.
HoldingOnToLiberty 1 year ago
Thanks for sharing :)
ZodiacSystem 1 year ago
@furyofbongos: a lot of libertarian patriots are heading to Somalia to start communities. It's the last bastion of freedom, a place where young libertarian men can finally be free of both government and of restrictive social codes. Run wild and free, young libertarian!
Also, since it's about to scroll off the screen, here's why Reason is misleading you:
24ahead . com/n/10313
Libertarians, supporting subsidies? Yep. See the link for the details.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
Everything government does is done at the point of a gun.
Government = taxation = coercion = violence = chaos and destruction.
This video is just another perfect example of that chaos and destruction.
It's time to overcome the absolute madness that is government.
furyofbongos 1 year ago
Comment removed
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
FUCK the little turd fish.
computerpurple 1 year ago
This is what you would call quality journalism. Reason does better investigative stories than major news outlets! They also provide better standalone and coherent multimedia. This opinion has nothing to do with Reason's political stance. Mainstream journalism is pure copycat superficiality. The worst aspect of the postmodern media of spectacles is that no one does their homework. They can't even coble together an accurate and comprehensive set of facts before they open their mouths.
mateo3470 1 year ago
@ConservativeMBA If you really look at what our government has done in relation to our borders,you will see that they really don't want our borders secure. Have you heard much about the North American Union?
mcap52 1 year ago
I can't believe the amount of so called libertarians on here commenting that we should keep out immigrants. To them I say that if you wont work for the wages they're getting paid, the factory's will just move to China or Mexico and then we wont even make money from their retail. Theres no such thing as having your job stolen.
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty FYI... we have guest worker visas. In fact, look up 'New Countries Eligible to Participate in H-2A and H-2B Programs' (posted today) on the USCIS dot com website. Mexico and other countries south of our border are listed as eligible so their citizens can get guest worker visas.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
@EyeLuvUSA I'm well aware, but these guest worker visa's are in very short supply, and the demand is very high. And whenever you have a government imposed cap set below the equilibrium point, you're always going to get black markets showing up. Its economics.
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty There's a reason for the limits just like there's a reason for our immigration requirements/laws. We wouldn't have 'black markets' if would enforce our laws.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
I reply to this video here (remove the spaces):
24ahead . com/n/10313
If you trust what Reason tells you, see the link.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 1 year ago
I believe they turned the pumps back on, at least for a short while, to bribe the California reps to vote for ObamaCare. Didn't realize they turned them right back off again.
averagejoe040 1 year ago
Legal immigration is necessary. However, we can always have a permanent Work Visa program. All they would need is a background check, and a USCIS immigration work ID card. The current system sucks, but that doesn't mean we have to give amnesty to all illegal immigrants. Just give them work visa status, and create a new program. If the want to live here, they can apply after 15 years of working solidly either for the same farmer season after season or the same employer.
goingalt 1 year ago
@goingalt I agree with you except for the 15 years with the same employer provision. One of America's most prized principles is freedom. The worker should be allowed to switch employers if they want to for any reason they deem fit. Imagine a person that wants to become American but needs to endure 15 years under an unfair employer. They should be allowed to find another authorized employer and their earned time should be allowed to accumulate.
prek2phd 1 year ago
@prek2phd I can agree with that. How about continuously employed (but not necessarily with the same employer), or continuously working season after season with different farmers?
goingalt 1 year ago
@goingalt I do not see any flaws in that reasoning. That would protect the worker by discouraging abusive employers.Maybe a high employee turnover would indicate a need to investigate the cause.
prek2phd 1 year ago
Most farmers are conservative? Doesn't the "F" in DFL mean "Farmer"?
Sure, they may vote Republican, but that's only as long as they support their farm subsidies.
schmij8 1 year ago
California's toast! Period.
pinegrove33 1 year ago
Jerry Brown is rolling out the red carpet for illegal aliens as we speak. His plan includes making citizens pay even more for the Mexican takeover that will result in the complete re-colonization of the golden state. No holds barred here! Jerry is working on his own version of the dream act, so the children of illegals can jump ahead of your kids and all you have to do is pay for it!
AryanBlade 1 year ago
They aren't fish, they're sea kittens.
yojimbo81 1 year ago
I am all for giving this area water, to improve the lives of AMERICANS, but the heck with ILLEGAL ALIENS. We must do everything necessary to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. We have over 30 guest worker programs, that have been exploited. ILLEGAL ALIEN farm workers, come over on work visas and are suppose to work in agriculture and then, overstay and take factory, construction, and every imagined job, from Americans. Guest worker means: You come to work, when done, you leave.
PatriotSue 1 year ago 2
Aw. More pro-illegal mass immigration from reason.tv. How sweet. It was especially heart warming when illegal immigrants from Mexico murdered my best friend 3 years ago simply because he was white and his girlfriend was hispanic. That just filled us with so much hope and joy. But keep chugging away repeating the lie that 99.9% of illegal immigrants are just peaceful fruit pickers rather than the gangbangers and welfare leechers that they really are. It's what you do.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 1 year ago 2
Enjoy it CA. Jerry Brown will fix it I'm sure.
You voted for it Losers!
medlock01 1 year ago
Great post!. Thanks!
usergently 1 year ago
"Conservative farmer" my ass. You aren't conservative if you're taking subsidies and using ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS over Americans that are desperate for jobs. And the labor cost is a small fraction of the total cost at the market shelf, so STOP LYING that American labor would greatly increase cost.
I'd much rather pay the addition cost at the check out counter than pay more in taxes for AMERICANS being out of work. I generally like ReasonTV but your extreme open borders mentality can go to hell.
kmg501 1 year ago
@kmg501 ""Conservative farmer" my ass. You aren't conservative if you're taking subsidies and using ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS over Americans that are desperate for jobs." look if your job is seriously endanger of being taken by an illegal because your just a grunt laborer then you should have learn a skill and become successful. If all you are is a vegatable picker then yes you are dispensable. A private business should be allowed to do whatever it takes to cut costs.
SockbatReplica 1 year ago
What the government giveth, the government will take away
The Ancient Roman Empire. the Mayans, the Aral Sea and the Salton Sea are lessons that salinity from irrigation destroys the fertility of the soil in about 50 years. Right solution, wrong justification.
ArtStone 1 year ago
I don't get it...why can't they save the fish and let the water flow in?
It's 2011, are you telling me there is no engineering solution that could allow the water to be pumped without harming the fish?
LMAO, time and time again, I realize there is not much hope for our species.
SaM52461 1 year ago
Banning people from working and moving is just as bad as forcing people to work and to leave. CoughEastBerlinCough
Vegemighty 1 year ago
The government has no right in telling people where they can or cant work, even if those people aren't US citizens. And where the government infringes on liberty we should not follow. So let the "illegal" workers work. I'd hire them myself and give them food from my table if it came to that. If the government banned religion or guns, you would all be out protesting. But banning work and living for a few million individuals is fine because they broke the law. The stupid stupid law
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty
So why do we have these laws in the first place? Remember, we the people made these laws. So if they aren't serving us we the people should change them.
If anyone can work anywhere it creates a security issue. Right now everyone hates us and we can't control our borders. Oh and people can go to another country and effectively rob it of it's resources, by working their illegally without paying taxes and sending all the money back home.
If u want a free market it has to be global
SaM52461 1 year ago 2
The new Dust Bowl. We can thank "Agenda 21" and the Left's desperate and endless efforts to fulfill that evil plan.
NoGuff 1 year ago
We've built our economy on the exploitation of cheap labor. If these undocumented workers became legal citizens then labor law says you have to pay them at least minimum wage. That to me would be just as bad as kicking them all out because it's going to cause the same exact thing to happen. Companies will have to charge more for products and the consumers will have to pay way more for groceries. And I think under the healthcare bill they will be required to have insurance on their employees.
exacerbatedtaboo 1 year ago
Why not harvest the delta smelt. Look on the web for recipes.
borderraven 1 year ago
Maybe the people in California need illegals to pick their damn fruit but we don't need them in the state of Ohio where they take our factory jobs and spit out anchor babies for us to support. No!
zookeeper220 1 year ago
@zookeeper220 Relax man. These immigrants are just trying to make a living themselves. Your protectionism is what made mexico such a poor place to live in to start with that they come here for jobs. Didn't you see those videos on here about immigration?
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty - "Relax man."
Sure, Liberal Hippy Douchebag.
thomaserossi 1 year ago
@Vegemighty Relax..do they live all around you? Do their drunken parties keep you awake..no? Are you working..they haven't taken your job yet? Mexico is a shit hole because they made it that way and now they try to do the same thing here. No. I feel no sympathy for them. They need to deport every last man, woman and child back to that hell hole that they created.
zookeeper220 1 year ago
@zookeeper220 Wow, racist.
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty WOW..FED UP!
zookeeper220 1 year ago
@Vegemighty I'm a second generation American of Mexican descent and I agree 100% with zookeeper220. This has nothing to do with race and the real racists are the Hispanics who keep whining about race when they are the ones who have made everything all about THEM. (I won't say about their race because Hispanic, Latino, Mexican, etc. ARE NOT RACES.) Their countries ARE shitholes and it is because instead of staying and fighting to make them better they abandon them to take from our country.
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
@EyeLuvUSA Once again you hit the nail on the head. It is incredible that anyone that opposes "illegal immigration" is labeled as a racist. This is not a race based issue.
prek2phd 1 year ago
@zookeeper220 We don't need them and don't want them here but our elected reps kiss their behinds because they provide cheap labor. All the libtards in California have done this, starting with Barbie Boxer. I have to live here and put up with their smirking arrogance. I've worked in fields myself. Who did the jobs before the illegals? AMERICAN citizens. Doesn't anyone remember The Grapes of Wrath? It happened! We don't need or want them here but Cali's a libtard state!
Metallicat100 1 year ago
@Metallicat100 I agree with you. If California thinks tomatoes come before country then I'd say that would be a stupid argument. As for the $10. tomato..I grow my own..and they taste like tomatoes. I used to pick strawberries, green beanes, apples so I know where your comming from.
zookeeper220 1 year ago
@zookeeper220 Yep. I garden extensively every year, can my own tomatoes, peaches and green beans, and love the results I get. The $10 tomato argument is fallacious and serves to incite fear while it hides the real truth. American citizens have been displaced in low-skilled jobs so that our wages can be undermined. This is why I am neither Democrat or Replubican; they both want everything to stay the way it is for their own agendas to push forward.
Metallicat100 1 year ago
@Metallicat100 I can truly say that there is nothing better than a red, ripe, home grown tomato, the ones you buy in the stores suck big time. No flavor.
As for Democrats and Republicans, I felt the same way as you before the last elections, but now I'm leaning Republican especially with the Tea Party people. Can't wait to vote in 2012.
zookeeper220 1 year ago
@zookeeper220 You got that right; the ones in the store are gassed so that they 'mature' and turn red faster. Just like the beef in the stores is injected with dye to look 'fresher', whereas homegrown beef doesn't look the same. Yuck.
Metallicat100 1 year ago
@Metallicat100 I didn't know that beef was injected with red dye. I knew they had added a lot of water to the regular ground beef and we weren't getting our moneys worth.
zookeeper220 1 year ago
Hey guess what, back when there were fewer illegal immigrants, my sisters would pick berries in the summer as a summer job. We all had summer jobs growing up. Now do teenagers work? Where do they learn responsibility? THEY DON'T! The jobs teenagers used to do in order to gain experience have been given to illegal immigrants and the authoritarian Fed has pretty much outlawed teenage work. My niece can't even go to her father's office to help him, it's against the law apparently. Such BS!
shaudee67 1 year ago
@shaudee67 I've had several summer jobs while I was a teenager, which was very recently. The immigrants aren't the problem. Its the child labor laws. Many companies would rather not hire teens at all, then to do all the paper work.
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty I agree with you that child labor laws are counterproductive and should be relaxed or even repealed. We might even help the obesity problem while we're at it.
032125 1 year ago
Deport those that are here illegally and use machines to do more of the stoop labor. The farmers don't want to buy the machines because they are costly, so they love that the gov. is giving the illegals housing, medical, child care, etc. Just pop out another kid, and cry you want to feed it. This video is BS.
instantword 1 year ago
how stupid can those people bee letting that farmland go to waste like that ?
snewso 1 year ago
Please stop painting our church. God is watching :D
bracomadar 1 year ago
Take the illegals from the Valley, and the farms will cut back production.
When that happens, farms across America will again have a purpose.
They will again be able to compete.
We must first repeal NAFTA & CAFTA. Give the immigrants a reason to go back home. Their farming has been hurt by these two trade agreements.
Amnesty is out o the question. Too many amnesties have already been passed, and promises made that no more would be.
It has to end.
quaffer22 1 year ago
@quaffer22 A voice of reason in a world of liberal insanity! Thank you!
Metallicat100 1 year ago
Well made vid, nice visuals, good background music, nice people.
But where is the other side of this story?
Is there a point to giving us a one sided view?
Are we supposed to feel sorry for the farmers being effected by govt regulations, when it's the same govt that built the aqueducts?
henleythecat 1 year ago
@kingVillien
it's ok to eat fish because they don t have any feelings ...
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
The people we're talking about are NOT "undocumented." That term suggests that these people came here with the intention of providing documentation, but either lost their papers or haven't gotten around to filing them. The people in question are here ILLEGALLY, & never even ATTEMPTED to provide documentation as to who they are, where they're from, what diseases they may have, what they intend to do here, or when they intend to leave, if ever. They're ILLEGAL ALIENS!
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago 2
@TheTortugaTanker lol @ your Caps.. boo fucken hoo. lolUmad? ;)
Driftas220 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker
Like your ancestors filed papers with the natives when they came.
As if borders even make sense.
Calling people aliens does not make it so. They are just people.
You sound like a raving bigot.
Jerk.
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower
But you see, back when the Europeans came over, there were NO LAWS TO BREAK, let alone infrastructure to mooch from!
WE BUILT THE INFRASTRUCTURE
WE MADE A NATION!
WE MADE THINGS BETTER!
Now the primitive want the land, but they seem to invade the areas where we've civilized & create friction with the people who are SUPPOSED to be here! This is now the US.
You're welcome for all the jobs America provides you, asshole. Now go fuck yourself.
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker
"You" burned, raped and massacred a whole pile of different cultures to build your precious shithole.
As far as I am concerned you are welcome to the lot of it.
Point being that you have NO moral high ground to stand on. Illegal immigrants may not have one either, but that does not somehow grant the descendants of murdering invaders some kind of rights to the land they have stolen.
If anyone has a moral high ground to stand on it's the natives.
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower Not really. Since they didn't develope shit. They hadn't even developed the wheel by the time whites came to the Americas. Nor did they even have a written language. They were blood thirsty savages who got killed mostly by disease. Not genoicde. And the Mexicans aren't "natives". Most are of Spanish white ancestry. And Mexico was an imperialistic European empire as well. And before them, the natives were also savage imperialists. They have no moral ground to stand on either.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 1 year ago 2
@TaskForceSixTwoSix
Epic post!
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix While I agree with most of your points, as a decedent of Mezo-American Indians I do have to make a couple points.
1) There was a written language in Mezo-American, The Aztec, Mayan and other major city building civs used various pictograph writing styles. The nomadic tribes and smaller tribes did not use written language however.
2)And they did have the wheel, however they used it as scientific and decorative, not as transport.
Other than that your pretty spot on.
TheObsidianhunter 1 year ago
@TheObsidianhunter Yes. I know all about the native language systems. I actually studied it. Was very recently deciphered by white scholars after trying for over 100 years. Interesting stuff.
Who I was referring to were what we call the "Native Americans" or "Indians". Not the Central and South American natives like the Mayans and Aztecs. My cricticism of them is their hypocriitical complaining about white European colonization. They too were imperialists and often more evil than the whites.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 1 year ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Ah I see.
Your right about their imperialism. I got in to an argument with one kid a few years back. He went on about how the Spanish destroyed the Aztecs. I asked how did a dozen Spaniards with highly inefficient rifles take down a civilization. He had no idea, he actually thought the Spanish had vast armies in the Americas. he had no idea the Spanish made allies with the local tribes the Aztecs had subjugated for over a century and started a rebelion!
Facts always win
TheObsidianhunter 1 year ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Don't be silly. Moral high ground is not gained by economic development, or technological. Just by lack of evil.
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower
This isn't a matter of "immigration" - it's a matter of trespassing. Living in America is not a right just because you can walk across the border. Living in America is a privilege & responsibility - it comes by respecting & upholding the Constitution, the law of our land, which says what you must do to be a citizen of this country, & contributing to the society that will lend support right back. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!
I can't expect you to understand, clown.
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago 2
@TheTortugaTanker
You use all-caps to rant in defense of of the "rights" of marauders, and you refer to me as a clown.
It seems that your intellect is in the same state as your failing country, disheveled.
Living in the US is and always has been a case of might makes right.
Quit pretending to be superior to the rest of us, it just makes the whole pack of you out to be deluded idiots.
"FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!"? Doublethink. Read Orwell and GTFO.
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower
I use all capes?. ROFLMAO!!!
Your psychological analysis of me is delusional at best. Let's see :
Canada's gov't is undermining its ppl while you remain dependent upon American jobs. They have cut spending on education, nearly ELIMINATED loans for higher education while stunting the growth of your job market by only expanding min wage jobs offering no benefits. Canadians struggle to find the means to eat, much less pay rent. Toronto has become cesspool.
GTFO, clown.
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker HA! I see, you are just a troll. Well done.
You had me for a minute there, I thought you were serious!
But after all those utterly incorrect observations I realized you are either a troll or an idiot.
As I am unwilling to talk to either,
I bid you good day.
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower
It's amusing to see you bow out after flaunting your stupidity & failure then laying it on me with the accusation of "trolling." Bravo to you! Now do the world a favor & go earn yourself a Darwin Award so you won't further contaminate the gene pool more than your parents already did by birthing trash like yourself.
Cheers.
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker your post are always stupid.. you should know , old fags shouldn't troll. try to grow up for once you internet loser. lol
Driftas220 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker
Go die in a fire.
Better yet, go die in a hospital 6 weeks or so after the fire.
Filthy dog.
;)
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower
A shame that you're too retarded to actually attempt trolling me with something offensive & instead parade your animal instincts & personal hatred of desiring people to die. This is why you deserve to be euthanized along with everyone genetically related to you - children included. Every chance we have to eradicate the propagation of your family's genetic failure will be a blessing to humanity & a favor to Mother Nature.
Fucking animal.
TheTortugaTanker 1 year ago
@TheTortugaTanker "This is why you deserve to be euthanized"?
before calling someone else "retarded" you should read your own post hahaha. old fags shouldn't troll.
Driftas220 1 year ago
@bentothetenthpower TheTortugaTanker Copies-N-Paste the same comments on every video. he considers himself a 'troll' when really, his an old fag .. old ass dude haha
Driftas220 1 year ago
@Driftas220 He uses all capes. Yup. Leaves no cape unused. It makes him ROFLMAO!!!
What an idiot...
bentothetenthpower 1 year ago
Shoot, shovel, and shut up never sounded more smarter after watching this.
loszhor 1 year ago
The Europeans don't care about a "stupid little fish"? If there is any area of the world that has seen and coped with green concerns it is Europe. The difference is, they force their governments to come up with a realistic engineering solution.
Teenagefreedomfightr 1 year ago
The green party. Shitting on the little guy to protect stupid god-damned fish you had no idea existed
migkillertwo 1 year ago
Fish are important too
frankscola 1 year ago
I find the delta smelt argument funny, how can you take jobs for a small fish? How about cause it feeds bigger fish? We allow the big fish no food by killing off the smelt wave goodbye to the $4.9 billion per year annual sport fishing industry plus the lose to commercial fishing, at which point it is no longer even an environmental question but a purely economic one.
Our immigration in the US in retarded. Turning a bind eye to billions of people braking the law is just retarded.
Loathomar 1 year ago
The price of westside real estate will be trashed. I'm sure it will gobbled up soon.
dwoods828 1 year ago
Who is funding the environmentalists? Follow the money, follow the money, follow the money if your have the balz!
dwoods828 1 year ago
@dwoods828 Most environmental organizations like green peace and World Wildlife Fund get most of there funding for individuals. Damn individuals donors of millions of people, building a giant global conspiracy to take people jobs...
Loathomar 1 year ago
One word...Monsanto
dwoods828 1 year ago
What's wrong with enforcing immigration statutes? I'm a legal immigrant. Why should others be able to cut in line? To legally reside in this country, I had to learn English, American history, and the U.S. Constitution. I also had to take an oath of allegiance. This procedure can only preserve and protect our unique American experiment. I'm proud to be an American. Viva USA!
ejsecco 1 year ago 28
@ejsecco There are some of us that believe that the immigration process has been made overly complex and difficult. Further, we believe that ANY overly complex process will simply encourage a black market, and criminalize people who are not naturally criminals.
It's great that you got in legally, and we're happy to have you, but the system is broken. Some people are threatened by competition; true lovers of liberty embrace it because we know that competition breeds great things.
032125 1 year ago
@ejsecco
Your unique american experiment began when people were allowed to migrate to the Americas, no fences erected and no passports needed. Your American History lessons were, apparently, difficient.
DasGuntLord01 1 year ago
@ejsecco If you're not in California, what right do you have to tell Californians who they can or can't accept into their state?
InMooseWeTrust 1 year ago
@ejsecco Thank you for respecting and loving our country and people enough to come to our country legall and most of all to join with us as an American. It is people like you who have made our country great. Immigrants don't sneak into a country like thieves, march in the streets waving their flags while telling the citizens to "Go back to Europe!" and DEMAND to be allowed to stay. Those are the actions of INVADERS and invaders should be stopped and deported!
EyeLuvUSA 1 year ago
@ejsecco The problem with enforcing immigration statutes is the an ethnically motivated group realizes that there is strength in numbers. Politicians must walk the votes based tightrope to remein in office. This is a good reason to limit politicians to one term. Then they would be free to do their job because they would no longer fear the voting power of a divisive group.
prek2phd 1 year ago
federal poicy in my opinoin = fail, just my experience and opinion!
daverunner 1 year ago
I really do not understand the point of this video. Is it pro-slave? the farmers need illegals working the fields to make money, and oh there is this fish thing... and I was an illegal but now I am a good person ....
What is the wage paid to the farm workers?
We have 14% unemployment here in FL I am sure we can work something out .... but I think a business model has been created on the backs of modern day slaves that will not support the use of American born, lawful workers and a living wag
WillieNero 1 year ago
the green movement has been hijacked by a bunch of communist fanatics!!
Erbstank 1 year ago 3
Open borders, open minds!
Vegemighty 1 year ago
@Vegemighty
It's called infrastructure and it's limited. We can't take everyone and these criminals shouldn't be allowed to cut in line when there are people that wait 5+ years to get citizenship. Kick the criminal aliens out and get rid of minimum wage laws.
zetsway5000 1 year ago
Seems like alot of people here aren't aware of how the food chain works. It's not just the fish.lol. Still sounds like typical environmental lawyer bullshit though.Our government pays them to sue people whether they win or not.They should be able to minimize the damage to the fish population easily. That doesn't benefit their pockets though. What do those workers get payed? I've worked harder than that for $160 a week. Maybe they work for free? Americans would do the work,just not californians.
MrSafetymeeting 1 year ago
The Federal government should be constitutionally forbidden from interfering in all industry and commerce anywhere in the world.
Hey farmers, kill all of the smelt, that will solve the problem.
XCritonX 1 year ago
The delta smelt is kismet. The Fates are paying those farmers back for exploiting Mexican labor. If they'd pay what the work is worth, Americans would do the jobs. Screw those farmers, screw those illegal aliens, and, especially, screw that stupid fish.
neshobanakni 1 year ago
@neshobanakni
"If they'd pay what the work is worth, Americans would do the jobs."
You mean, if they'd pay more than the work is worth, then Americans would take the jobs. This may sound crass, and the work may be hard, but the work is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. You want the lowest possible price on produce at the grocery store, yet you also want "fair" wages for the labor. You can't have it both ways.
myhipsi 1 year ago
Fish thing = Ridiculous
Illegal Aliens/Undocument Workers/Migrant Workers, or whatever term is being used... Whatever happened to the notion of work visas? We cannot absorb the lowest economic layer of the Mexican economy and not pay drastic consequences, which is about 1/7 of their country.
We're watering down the mean wage that is being paid to our lower economic class every time we let more illegals into this nation. Thus, the "rich get richer" as labor costs dwindle for them.
etool782 1 year ago
It is simply another example of why majority rule is messed up. The majority haven't got a clue about farming or even care about maintaining farms here. The farmers are in the minority and will continue to be out voted into extinction. And when food prices start climbing the ignorant masses will blame the farmers that they voted out of business.
libertyfizz 1 year ago
wana save the fish, find a way to make them tasty.
NeoZomboi 1 year ago
what the hell we cant live on smelt use them for fertilizer.What a bunch of bull man whats up with the govt there???This is disturbing.Pissed me off
LetArtsLive 1 year ago
Thank you Reason for covering this topic.
bittergunowner12 1 year ago
"It's considered the bread basket of America"
I thought that was the midwest . . .
justinrixx 1 year ago
sounds like business needs to step up their game, without exploit people and using less water.
More crap from Reason TV. There is a solution, too bad your a lousy run fox program who can't think outside the box.
mathers3000 1 year ago
@mathers3000, really? Run by fox? At least present an argument to as why these regulations are necessary, not just throw around words you heard from some propaganda.
Houshalter 1 year ago 2
That god damned fish and the EPA should be extinct!
MsWanderer1 1 year ago
Anyone who's driven up the 5 fwy sees those "Congress created Dust Bowl" signs for miles.
Thorbie 1 year ago
oh god, the ESA...
zassounotsukushi 1 year ago
sorry for typoes, on a phone. these regulations make it unviable to hire legally so they have to resort to the black market to obtain labor. also when the govt is giving nearly 3 years of unemployment benefits where will you find a legal worker. to do the work?
ForTehNguyen 1 year ago
@ForTehNguyen Exactly, many people don't start looking for work until their benefits are about to expire. It makes sense since most of the jobs that are available pay so little and the Unemployment Benefits pay more than a full time job waiting tables!
Unemployment just lets people live beyond their means for another couple years, not a whole lot of people cut back like they are unemployed until after the benefits run out!
rooftopeagle 1 year ago
get rid of the min wage, there will be little incentive to hire illegals then. watch that 40% unemployment get reduced
ForTehNguyen 1 year ago
@ForTehNguyen Exactly! If shoveling shit pays $2/hr then that is what the job is worth. If you've got illegals willing to shovel shit for $2/hr then why would you hire someone legally at $7 or $8? If we let the market do it's thing jobs will come flocking back. But as long as Unions and governments have their greasy fingers in business forcing the cost of doing business through the roof then companies will continue to move jobs outside the country!
rooftopeagle 1 year ago
illegals are hired because of min wage laws and over regulation to begin with. these costs make it ujviableto hire legally, guess what happens they have to go to the black market for l
ForTehNguyen 1 year ago
We wouldn't need illegal immigrants to keep food cheap, if the smaller businesses were not regulated out of the game, from the beginning.
kingcherub 1 year ago 2