and for everyone who bitches about multiplatform games being "inferior" on the ps3 needs to realize that developers don't see the need to devote all their development budget and time optimizing their product for a platform that not only is difficult to program for, it will also sell less copies on.
its a complete lose-lose scenario for developers who put their money on the ps3 when it comes to multiplatform games.
the i7 kills the cell, the cell only has 1 actual PPC processor, and 6 (not 8) SPU's available to devs, the i7 has 4 real cores, which are hyper threaded
Yeah, but when you do the complicated mathematical operations and get to the final result of brute force of both cpu's the cell still takes home the prize after 11 years.
@Madkillr05 ya but the cell has more L2 And L3 Chache making it faster. and the cell is specifically designed for high permormance decoding.. The i7 Couldnt even touch the cell.
@pumpmaster760 Cell has much less cache, actually. It has 512 KB of L2 cache and no L3 cache. Lynnfield and Bloomfield (quad-core Core i7 models) have 256 KB of L2 cache per core, making a total of 1 MB, plus 8 MB of L3 cache. Gulftown (six-core Core i7 models) also have 256 KB of L2 cache per core, making a total of 1.5 MB, plus 12 MB of L3 cache.
The Core i7 processors are indeed much faster than the $38 single-core Cell.
@NewLynxChannel ok then try playing ps3 games on your computer at 60fps. just becausse the i 7 has more prossecors doesnt mean that its faster. look at the pentium 4 for example with hyper threading at 2.4GHz vs a Core 2 Duo at 2.4 GHz and the Core 2 duo will be at least twice as good and they both have the same clock rate and ammount of cores.. so it doesnt matter how many the i7 has it all comes down to the threading of the proccesors.... but the new sandy bridges might be faster than the cell
@pumpmaster760 The PS3 has a $38 processor, a $46 GPU and 256 MB of RAM. You can be sure that whatever runs on the PS3 runs better on a mainstream computer. Let alone one with a Core i7 processor.
And a Core 2 Duo has two cores, while a Pentium 4 HT is a single-core processor with two threads. They don't have the same ammount of cores.
@NewLynxChannel OK the broadband engine is a fucking high end server proccesor so its designed for huge amounts of data and its more than $38.. OK ill admit that the Core i7 980x EXTREME EDITION 3.4GHz -Core proccesor with hyper threading is definitely faster:)
@pumpmaster760 An iSuppli report from December 2009 has shown that each Cell processor used on the PS3 costs Sony exactly $37.73.
And if you look at IBM's lineup you'll see that Cell-based solutions, mostly the QS2x server blade series, are not a high-end product (market which is occupied by the POWER7-based lineup), but rather an energy-efficient value option. It was an outstanding processor back in 2005, but you can't expect it to remain on top after five years of hardware development.
@NewLynxChannel oo suck on it bitch!! i did some reserch and found out some pretty interesting fact about the cell broadband engine and the core i7. ok the cell broadband engine is way faster at computation than the core i7... ok the Cell Broadband Engine has a peak computation rate of 2-TeraFlops and the core i7 only has a peak computation rate of 107-Megaflops. There is a huge speed difference between 107-MegaFlops and 2-TereFlops. a TeraFlop is way faster than a MegaFlop. so suck it
@pumpmaster760 Your numbers couldn't be more wrong. A Cell processor has a theoretical peak performance of 230.4 GigaFLOPS, while achieving 36 GigaFLOPS on a real-world scenario (Folding@home). The Core i7 processors, on the other hand, range from 55 GigaFLOPS (Core i7 920) to 108 GigaFLOPS (Core i7 990X) on a real-world scenario (SiSoft SANDRA). There is no practical way to calculate their theoretical peak performance, though.
On top of that, there's much more to a processor than just FLOPS performance. Not only the Core i7 processors have higher floating-point performance, but also higher integer and boolean performance, from 18 to 27 times as much cache depending on the model, and a faster memory subsystem (dual-channel or triple-channel DDR3, depending on the motherboard chipset).
@NewLynxChannel dude get over it i7 laptop fanboy. i like intel also but at least i can admit that theres a faster prosseccor than the i7... Dude the Cell BroadBand engine peaks at 2PetaFlops while the i7 peaks at 107MegaFlops. get over it just give it up the cell broadband engine is like 10 times as fast as the i7. and btw hyper threading is just adding an extra thread. theres a huge differance btween a core and a thread. the cell has 7 cores + one thats hyper threaded. i7 has 4 cores, not 7.
@pumpmaster760 Cell has one core and eight SIMD units, not seven cores. And Core i7 processors have either four cores (Lynnfield, Bloomfield) or six cores (Gulftown).
And those numbers you're giving are beyond ridiculous. 107 MFLOPS is something you'd expect from a processor in the '90s, while 2 PFLOPS is something that only the most powerful supercomputers, which use thousands of processors, can achieve.
I, on the other hand, gave you actual, sensible numbers and their sources.
@NewLynxChannel um accually the current fastest supper computer arround today is 4.78 petaflops dumbass. whatch a video on how the cell works. one processor tells certan things which spe that they need to go to and theres six of them. it is a very efficiant microachetechure and also includes a spare one incase one breaks
@pumpmaster760 Today's fastest supercomputer has a theoretical peak of 4701 TFLOPS, but only manages to achieve 2566 TFLOPS on real-world applications.
Also, Cell has eight SPEs, not six. On the PS3 one is reserved for XMB while another is disabled during manufacturing. There is no "spare one incase one breaks".
Besides, that's not how Cell works. It has one general-purpose core (PPE) and eight parallel SIMD units (SPEs). Not one processor that tells the others what to do.
@NewLynxChannel the PPE tells stuff were to go, like which proccesor to go to, like say theres and explosion in the game, well the PPE will send the audio to one spe and then the graphics to another, and then the phisics of the explosin to one, and then maybe send some lighting to one of the spe. very efficiant design
@pumpmaster760 The PPE doesn't send anything anywhere, it's just a standard core. The SPEs have their own instructions and their own registers, they can process data by themselves. They only need the PPE when they need to access the system memory, since there is no bus linking them to the XDR directly.
Also, graphics (including lighting) is handled by the GPU (RSX), not by the SPEs.
@sourav93 Can be handled, not necessarily are (standard/multiplatform physics engines run on the PPE). But yes, SPEs can handle a range of tasks, not just image post-processing.
@NewLynxS Yes they're not always handled. But the devs who don't use the SPEs for calculations as such, you'll notice their game aren't as good (on the technical side) as games made by devs who use all the elements i.e. first party studios. PPE actually plays a major role in the processing of the SPEs. Yes the SPEs carry out their own calculations in parallel and independantly, but the tasks are assigned by the PPE and the PPE can start, stop, pause or terminate any of the SPEs' processes.
@sourav93 Obviously, using the SPEs results in higher performance. The problem is that other platforms don't have similar SIMD units on their CPUs, so multiplatform engines (either graphics or physics) can't make extensive use of them.
And the PPE doesn't interfere with the SPEs' processing. It just has access to their SRAM, being able to edit its contents IF necessary. The SPEs have their own memory controllers that can access the RAM inderectly through DMA operations and assign them a task.
@steamingpoopfart A full-featured Cell processor peaks at 230.4 GFLOPS (25.6 GFLOPS from each SPE, plus 25.6 GFLOPS from the PPE's vector unit). On the PS3, since two SPEs are not usable by games, it peaks at 179.2 GFLOPS.
You can find this information and understand why exactly the SPEs and the PPE's vector unit has a peak performance of 25.6 GFLOPS on IBM's documentation about the CBE architecture.
I've heard before from different sources that killzone 2 uses roughly 60% of the ps3's full power. What I don't get is, if the devs still have all this left over processing power to use on a game. Why do framerates get so bad sometimes. Why don't they just squeeze the full 100% out of the thing and have it run as well as possible? Do they not know how?
I never had problems with my Killzone 2's framerate lol, and it's not as easy as "hey let's make this run 100% the capability of cell", the cell is basicaly a coded cpu, they need to decoded before using it.
the Cell they are using was from 2006 if im not mistaken either way its not $60 ....
what I meant was the Cell is more powerful for games than a current i7 programed right
todays mainstream GPU's are more complicated than a CPU in itself so that comparison makes no sense but if you factor in the Cell chip with the low end graphic card by todays standards you got a console capable of delivering the goods don't you think so ?
i'd like a link of the cell selling for $60 btw ...
@AlienHybridX Search for an iSuppli article called "Sony Gets One Step Closer to Breakeven Point with Latest PlayStation 3 Design", you'll see that by December 2009 the cost of a Cell processor was $37.73.
@NewLynxChannel this video too, really? what is your obsession with this piece of hardware that u have dedicated around a YEAR of time trolling up the comments section in several of these "cell" videos? do u have a life man, there is other things to do on the net other than troll.
im actually laughing right now, i have never seen something like this in my life, troll dedication that is.
and dont lie to these kids, u make half the shit u say up because know they wont be check your credibility.
@RiotFalls I give out the sources whenever someone asks for them. You can confirm everything I've said here and on other videos by going to IBM's website and looking for CBEA documentation and whitepapers.
@murder00redrum no he's not. he's pretty much only capable of putting "tech related" words randomly in a sentience, which when read by someone who actually knows something its exposed as bullshit. anyone can copy and paste from websites but when you get that information from wikipedia, random forums and other sites that get their information from anyone with an internet connection, your bound to get false info.
and no im not mad, in fact im humored that you made a failed attempt to "make me mad"
@RiotFalls All the posts iv seen only try and explain that the cell processor isn't a 7 core processor. Which is true o.O whether he took his info from the website or not is irrelevant, hes right.
@murder00redrum you've only seen 1 of his comments obviously, a comment that everyone can verify by looking on their ps3's box. however the linux coders of the other OS feature that used to be functional on the ps3 refers to the SPE's as cores and use them exactly as cores are in a standard pc's cpu.
he is a troll who thinks he knows more than sony, the linux community and the cells developer (IBM). you fail just as much as he does right now
the cell's only decent as GPU anyways, sucks as a CPU.
@RiotFalls To be called a CORE the spe's NEED CACHE. Which they doesn't have so don't tell me i fail. Do some research bud. Hahaha decent as a GPU? Bud both of my GPU's have 336 of those little dinky processors that run in parallel. That are only good at floating point arithmetic. Which is why, yes, the cell sucks as a cpu. Well gosh maybe Sony put the word CORE on the box so people whould have some idea as the wth is it. Would it be smart to put *1 IBM bases power PC Cpu and 6 SPE's* ?
@murder00redrum the SPE's become cores when used by applications coded with a instruction set that uses RAM as cache but the RAM has to be the same frequency as the SPE's. the ps3 has 256MB XDRAM clocked at 3.2GHz and the cell clocked at 3.2GHz. the SPE's can use the XDRAM as cache because of the EIB and its fast/direct connection to that memory pool
the SPE's have external cache available for use, so you cannot say there not cores
go tell IBM and mercury computer systems that their wrong troll!
@RiotFalls Well i can't verify what you have told me. But i have a question, why isnt this cpu the best out there then. You yourself said it sucks as a cpu. Why so it if all the SPE's can be easily used as general purpose cores using the EIB(which fyi i thought was inside the CPU not used to connect it with outside resources).
@murder00redrum i'll look in my browsers history for the link and send it via PM, it was months ago
even though the cell can set its SPE's to work as cores with external cache, its still slower and requires extra specific instruction sets. the cell has only been used for half a decade with average level applications, most programmers who have coded for it even to this day don't know if will "show promise" or if it will "die out" for average consumer use now that ARM processors are advancing.
and the reason i say it sucks as a CPU is because there are things way better, the cells performance today compared to hex-core cpu's is dwarfed and they have all the extras that the cell has external all tucked inside and easier to use. back in 2006 the cell looked real good on paper but when used in applications it was comparable to the intel atom CPU performance wise, but if the device has RAM thats usable by the cell it can get a performance and usability boost.
@RiotFalls It's really funny you say I don't know what I'm taking about, and then you post comments like those.
First of all, the XDR RAM is not cocked at 3.2 GHz, it's clocked at 400 MHz. Since it transfers eight bits per cycle, that makes a transfer rate of 3.2 GT/s (gigatranfers per second), NOT 3.2 GHz. In a similar way as DDR3-1600 RAM (two transfers per cycle) is clocked at 800 MHz (1600 MT/s or 1.6 GT/s), not 1600 MHz.
Also, you cannot use RAM as cache. First, because cache needs a much higher bandwidth.Second, because unike RAM, cache isn't just storagei it needs additional logic units to predict which data to load and keep stored. Third, cache is not addressable by software, while RAM must be. And fourth, cache must be inside the CPU die to eliminate the latency that comes from having to use external buses.
Murder00redrum was right, EIB connect structures INSIDE Cell's die. It is not the external bus to the XDR RAM, which has nothing to do with EIB and has a maximum bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s (at 400 MHz).
SPEs are not cores, they are parallel SIMD units. They have no cache, no direct access to the system memory, a much more limited instruction set and can only run vectorized instructions, which geatly limits what they can do compared to an actual core such as the PPE.
Finally, Cell is absolutely not "decent" as a GPU. Sure, the nature of the SPEs (being parallel SIMD units like those used as stream processors on GPUs) allows Cell to perform reasonably well on shader-related tasks, like vector processing and post-processing effects. But it lacks other specialized structures GPUs have, like ROPs and TMUs, which means it achieves very low fillrates and, consequently, awful performance when handling the entire rendering process alone.
I take it you have an AMD or Intel processor? Well Those processors are completely different in design to the Cell Broadband Engine, I don't know where you get this "20%" faster thing from, but it's not true. The Cell can even kick the Core I7's ass if the code was optimised for it.
@jasonf81 You can't tell the difference... The human eye can at the most detect about 30 fps... anything lower than that we may notice the frames skipping... So yeah, it doesn't matter if the frames are 60 fps, 100 fps or even 1000 fps.. it'll still look the same either way
@DudeofWonders123 That's ridiculous. Our eyes don't work on frames, and they can EASILY see the difference between 30 and 60 frames per second (and much beyond that). Go to Google, type "difference 30 60 fps" and click I'm Feeling Lucky, you'll be taken to a page with the same flash animation at 15, 30 and 60 FPS, so you can check it yourself.
@DudeofWonders123 Ok then, really what I'm trying to say about frames per second is that I honestly don't give a crap, doesn't anyone remember back with the older consoles where they ran at really low framerates and stuff.. no one complained back then...
@rocknrollmetal93 That's debatable.. In IBM's documentation, they use SPU to refer to the execution units and local store, while they use SPE to refer to the SPU + memory flow controller.
ah, well sony themselves said its SPU's in the cell if you look on the internet you find game developers talking about the cells SPUS on scources of information it is actuallly SPU's. SPU AND SPE could be the same or people might think its SPE from look at the PPE.
its clearly obviously what YOU realy dont know how to use cell :D (no offense) first of all 6 cores available with games, 1 with OS 1 for reserve, secondly KL2 uses 4,5 of 6 cores, so accept this, ps3 almost reach its limits, in 2010-1 ps31 will be sucked up, so 2012 next generation will begin, this generation will show as not much more as you already saw
The Cell has 9 cores, 1 PPE and 8 SPEs..The Cell in the PS3 has 2 SPEs that are unusable, so that leaves 7 cores, 1 PPE and 6 SPEs for gaming. Killzone 2 ONLY used the PPE and 3 SPEs. Across those 3 SPEs, GG only maxed them at 60%. That leaves 40% unused on just those 3 SPEs they used.
Common sense should tell you, PS3 is far from being maxed.
oh i laugh so hard :DDDDD you from where out of space????? ps3 has 8 CORES, jesus cryst just read ps3 hardware manual :DDDD 6 works with games, one with OS, one for reserve, killzone 2 developers sayed what they used 4,5 cores from 6 so dont be stupid and dont deny this with your stupid bullshit, couse you really make emberesing of yourself what you no nothing about ps3 :DDD
no, 1 PPE + 7SPE= 6SPE working with games 1 PPE with OS 1SPE reserve, and will only work if one of 6SPE broke down.''''''The 12 page feature reveals more on Guerrilla's sequel. The feature mentions that KILLZONE 2 currently uses four and a half of the PLAYSTATION 3's six cores of the cell chip."""" now everything is clear???????????
IBM's documents stat that the Cell has 1 PPE with 8SPEs..They would know, they built the damn thing.
All Cell processors have 9 cores, but PS3s only has 7 usable cores, 1 PPe and 6 SPEs. 1 SPE does the OS, and another is for chip yields, thats why PS3 only has 7 usable cores.
You CAN'T use half a core..Killzone 2, as stated by GG, used the PPE and 3 SPEs..They would know, they developed the game.
i have to apologies you, yes tis written what ps3 has 1PPE and 8SPEs, but 1SPE will never work due improve chip yields so whats why everybody writing 1 PPE and 7 SPE, so theoretically it has 9 cores, but practically 8, and as i said it only work 6 SPE with games and you right 1PPE is seven, so i have to apologies second time, and what about 4.5 , every core has threads like xbox 360 has two threads in core so you can used 1.6 ghz instead of 3.2, so i think is same with ps3
If you knew anything about computers, you'd know the Cell Broadband Engine has 10 threads of multi-processing. Two threads for the PPE, and one thread per SPE. I don't know what crack your on, but Xbox 360 only has 6 threads. The PS3 nearly doubles in processing power.
Uncharted 2 won't max out the Cell..Uncharted 2 is using the PPE and 4 SPEs, only those SPEs are 'maxed'..But even then they're not cpmpletely maxed out, since ND isn't using efficient code.
and for everyone who bitches about multiplatform games being "inferior" on the ps3 needs to realize that developers don't see the need to devote all their development budget and time optimizing their product for a platform that not only is difficult to program for, it will also sell less copies on.
its a complete lose-lose scenario for developers who put their money on the ps3 when it comes to multiplatform games.
RiotFalls 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
CELL- 218 GFLOPS
i7 920 C0 @ 4050 MHz - 57.55 GFlops
lol intel fanboys
fedemupitchar 1 year ago 14
haha , that just another stupid ass intel fanboy , we can just ignore him for good .
pumpmaster760 10 months ago
We all know you hardware is nothing without great software ;D
oskenso 11 months ago
@oskenso I agree with.
Azmza77 9 months ago
the i7 kills the cell, the cell only has 1 actual PPC processor, and 6 (not 8) SPU's available to devs, the i7 has 4 real cores, which are hyper threaded
Madkillr05 1 year ago
@Madkillr05
Yeah, but when you do the complicated mathematical operations and get to the final result of brute force of both cpu's the cell still takes home the prize after 11 years.
RapturousDemise 1 year ago
@Madkillr05 ya but the cell has more L2 And L3 Chache making it faster. and the cell is specifically designed for high permormance decoding.. The i7 Couldnt even touch the cell.
pumpmaster760 1 year ago
@pumpmaster760 Cell has much less cache, actually. It has 512 KB of L2 cache and no L3 cache. Lynnfield and Bloomfield (quad-core Core i7 models) have 256 KB of L2 cache per core, making a total of 1 MB, plus 8 MB of L3 cache. Gulftown (six-core Core i7 models) also have 256 KB of L2 cache per core, making a total of 1.5 MB, plus 12 MB of L3 cache.
The Core i7 processors are indeed much faster than the $38 single-core Cell.
NewLynxChannel 1 year ago
@NewLynxChannel ok then try playing ps3 games on your computer at 60fps. just becausse the i 7 has more prossecors doesnt mean that its faster. look at the pentium 4 for example with hyper threading at 2.4GHz vs a Core 2 Duo at 2.4 GHz and the Core 2 duo will be at least twice as good and they both have the same clock rate and ammount of cores.. so it doesnt matter how many the i7 has it all comes down to the threading of the proccesors.... but the new sandy bridges might be faster than the cell
pumpmaster760 1 year ago
@pumpmaster760 The PS3 has a $38 processor, a $46 GPU and 256 MB of RAM. You can be sure that whatever runs on the PS3 runs better on a mainstream computer. Let alone one with a Core i7 processor.
And a Core 2 Duo has two cores, while a Pentium 4 HT is a single-core processor with two threads. They don't have the same ammount of cores.
NewLynxChannel 1 year ago
@NewLynxChannel OK the broadband engine is a fucking high end server proccesor so its designed for huge amounts of data and its more than $38.. OK ill admit that the Core i7 980x EXTREME EDITION 3.4GHz -Core proccesor with hyper threading is definitely faster:)
pumpmaster760 1 year ago
@pumpmaster760 An iSuppli report from December 2009 has shown that each Cell processor used on the PS3 costs Sony exactly $37.73.
And if you look at IBM's lineup you'll see that Cell-based solutions, mostly the QS2x server blade series, are not a high-end product (market which is occupied by the POWER7-based lineup), but rather an energy-efficient value option. It was an outstanding processor back in 2005, but you can't expect it to remain on top after five years of hardware development.
NewLynxChannel 1 year ago
@NewLynxChannel oo suck on it bitch!! i did some reserch and found out some pretty interesting fact about the cell broadband engine and the core i7. ok the cell broadband engine is way faster at computation than the core i7... ok the Cell Broadband Engine has a peak computation rate of 2-TeraFlops and the core i7 only has a peak computation rate of 107-Megaflops. There is a huge speed difference between 107-MegaFlops and 2-TereFlops. a TeraFlop is way faster than a MegaFlop. so suck it
pumpmaster760 11 months ago
@pumpmaster760 Your numbers couldn't be more wrong. A Cell processor has a theoretical peak performance of 230.4 GigaFLOPS, while achieving 36 GigaFLOPS on a real-world scenario (Folding@home). The Core i7 processors, on the other hand, range from 55 GigaFLOPS (Core i7 920) to 108 GigaFLOPS (Core i7 990X) on a real-world scenario (SiSoft SANDRA). There is no practical way to calculate their theoretical peak performance, though.
NewLynxChannel 11 months ago
@pumpmaster760 Continued...
On top of that, there's much more to a processor than just FLOPS performance. Not only the Core i7 processors have higher floating-point performance, but also higher integer and boolean performance, from 18 to 27 times as much cache depending on the model, and a faster memory subsystem (dual-channel or triple-channel DDR3, depending on the motherboard chipset).
NewLynxChannel 11 months ago
@NewLynxChannel dude get over it i7 laptop fanboy. i like intel also but at least i can admit that theres a faster prosseccor than the i7... Dude the Cell BroadBand engine peaks at 2PetaFlops while the i7 peaks at 107MegaFlops. get over it just give it up the cell broadband engine is like 10 times as fast as the i7. and btw hyper threading is just adding an extra thread. theres a huge differance btween a core and a thread. the cell has 7 cores + one thats hyper threaded. i7 has 4 cores, not 7.
pumpmaster760 11 months ago
@pumpmaster760 Cell has one core and eight SIMD units, not seven cores. And Core i7 processors have either four cores (Lynnfield, Bloomfield) or six cores (Gulftown).
And those numbers you're giving are beyond ridiculous. 107 MFLOPS is something you'd expect from a processor in the '90s, while 2 PFLOPS is something that only the most powerful supercomputers, which use thousands of processors, can achieve.
I, on the other hand, gave you actual, sensible numbers and their sources.
NewLynxChannel 11 months ago
@NewLynxChannel um accually the current fastest supper computer arround today is 4.78 petaflops dumbass. whatch a video on how the cell works. one processor tells certan things which spe that they need to go to and theres six of them. it is a very efficiant microachetechure and also includes a spare one incase one breaks
pumpmaster760 11 months ago
@pumpmaster760 Today's fastest supercomputer has a theoretical peak of 4701 TFLOPS, but only manages to achieve 2566 TFLOPS on real-world applications.
Also, Cell has eight SPEs, not six. On the PS3 one is reserved for XMB while another is disabled during manufacturing. There is no "spare one incase one breaks".
Besides, that's not how Cell works. It has one general-purpose core (PPE) and eight parallel SIMD units (SPEs). Not one processor that tells the others what to do.
NewLynxChannel 11 months ago
@NewLynxChannel the PPE tells stuff were to go, like which proccesor to go to, like say theres and explosion in the game, well the PPE will send the audio to one spe and then the graphics to another, and then the phisics of the explosin to one, and then maybe send some lighting to one of the spe. very efficiant design
pumpmaster760 11 months ago
@pumpmaster760 The PPE doesn't send anything anywhere, it's just a standard core. The SPEs have their own instructions and their own registers, they can process data by themselves. They only need the PPE when they need to access the system memory, since there is no bus linking them to the XDR directly.
Also, graphics (including lighting) is handled by the GPU (RSX), not by the SPEs.
NewLynxChannel 11 months ago
@NewLynxChannel However, other elements such as Physics are handled by the SPEs.
sourav93 8 months ago
@sourav93 Can be handled, not necessarily are (standard/multiplatform physics engines run on the PPE). But yes, SPEs can handle a range of tasks, not just image post-processing.
NewLynxS 8 months ago
@NewLynxS Yes they're not always handled. But the devs who don't use the SPEs for calculations as such, you'll notice their game aren't as good (on the technical side) as games made by devs who use all the elements i.e. first party studios. PPE actually plays a major role in the processing of the SPEs. Yes the SPEs carry out their own calculations in parallel and independantly, but the tasks are assigned by the PPE and the PPE can start, stop, pause or terminate any of the SPEs' processes.
sourav93 8 months ago
@sourav93 Obviously, using the SPEs results in higher performance. The problem is that other platforms don't have similar SIMD units on their CPUs, so multiplatform engines (either graphics or physics) can't make extensive use of them.
And the PPE doesn't interfere with the SPEs' processing. It just has access to their SRAM, being able to edit its contents IF necessary. The SPEs have their own memory controllers that can access the RAM inderectly through DMA operations and assign them a task.
NewLynxS 8 months ago
@pumpmaster760 your retarded....
henryhenriquez 10 months ago
The cell peaks at 2petaflops
steamingpoopfart 10 months ago
@steamingpoopfart A full-featured Cell processor peaks at 230.4 GFLOPS (25.6 GFLOPS from each SPE, plus 25.6 GFLOPS from the PPE's vector unit). On the PS3, since two SPEs are not usable by games, it peaks at 179.2 GFLOPS.
You can find this information and understand why exactly the SPEs and the PPE's vector unit has a peak performance of 25.6 GFLOPS on IBM's documentation about the CBE architecture.
NewLynxChannel 10 months ago
@steamingpoopfart wow dude... just wow. you just got the most retarded person on erth award... gratz...
henryhenriquez 10 months ago
i7 is way better ibm no good
halojames1 1 year ago
I've heard before from different sources that killzone 2 uses roughly 60% of the ps3's full power. What I don't get is, if the devs still have all this left over processing power to use on a game. Why do framerates get so bad sometimes. Why don't they just squeeze the full 100% out of the thing and have it run as well as possible? Do they not know how?
DDRGURU56 1 year ago
@DDRGURU56
I never had problems with my Killzone 2's framerate lol, and it's not as easy as "hey let's make this run 100% the capability of cell", the cell is basicaly a coded cpu, they need to decoded before using it.
RapturousDemise 1 year ago
ps3 is beast waiting to be unleashed. 2011 is gonna be when ps3 unlocks its true potential
shababsta 1 year ago
@shababsta Didn't they say that about 2008 back in 2006?
chadheck96 1 year ago
@chadheck96 idk did they? ill search it up for you.
shababsta 1 year ago
Sorry if this is a noob question, I don't understand too much about Hardwares... but, can we use a Cell on the PC? Why?
kynigh 1 year ago
Comment removed
mathhenr 1 year ago
the Cell they are using was from 2006 if im not mistaken either way its not $60 ....
what I meant was the Cell is more powerful for games than a current i7 programed right
todays mainstream GPU's are more complicated than a CPU in itself so that comparison makes no sense but if you factor in the Cell chip with the low end graphic card by todays standards you got a console capable of delivering the goods don't you think so ?
i'd like a link of the cell selling for $60 btw ...
AlienHybridX 1 year ago
Comment removed
mathhenr 1 year ago
@AlienHybridX Search for an iSuppli article called "Sony Gets One Step Closer to Breakeven Point with Latest PlayStation 3 Design", you'll see that by December 2009 the cost of a Cell processor was $37.73.
NewLynxChannel 1 year ago
@NewLynxChannel this video too, really? what is your obsession with this piece of hardware that u have dedicated around a YEAR of time trolling up the comments section in several of these "cell" videos? do u have a life man, there is other things to do on the net other than troll.
im actually laughing right now, i have never seen something like this in my life, troll dedication that is.
and dont lie to these kids, u make half the shit u say up because know they wont be check your credibility.
RiotFalls 5 months ago 4
@RiotFalls I give out the sources whenever someone asks for them. You can confirm everything I've said here and on other videos by going to IBM's website and looking for CBEA documentation and whitepapers.
NewLynxS 5 months ago
@RiotFalls Actually hes right you idiot, hes not making anything up. U MAD hes smarter than you? lmfao
murder00redrum 1 month ago
@murder00redrum no he's not. he's pretty much only capable of putting "tech related" words randomly in a sentience, which when read by someone who actually knows something its exposed as bullshit. anyone can copy and paste from websites but when you get that information from wikipedia, random forums and other sites that get their information from anyone with an internet connection, your bound to get false info.
and no im not mad, in fact im humored that you made a failed attempt to "make me mad"
RiotFalls 1 month ago
@RiotFalls All the posts iv seen only try and explain that the cell processor isn't a 7 core processor. Which is true o.O whether he took his info from the website or not is irrelevant, hes right.
murder00redrum 1 month ago
@murder00redrum you've only seen 1 of his comments obviously, a comment that everyone can verify by looking on their ps3's box. however the linux coders of the other OS feature that used to be functional on the ps3 refers to the SPE's as cores and use them exactly as cores are in a standard pc's cpu.
he is a troll who thinks he knows more than sony, the linux community and the cells developer (IBM). you fail just as much as he does right now
the cell's only decent as GPU anyways, sucks as a CPU.
RiotFalls 1 month ago
@RiotFalls To be called a CORE the spe's NEED CACHE. Which they doesn't have so don't tell me i fail. Do some research bud. Hahaha decent as a GPU? Bud both of my GPU's have 336 of those little dinky processors that run in parallel. That are only good at floating point arithmetic. Which is why, yes, the cell sucks as a cpu. Well gosh maybe Sony put the word CORE on the box so people whould have some idea as the wth is it. Would it be smart to put *1 IBM bases power PC Cpu and 6 SPE's* ?
murder00redrum 1 month ago
@murder00redrum the SPE's become cores when used by applications coded with a instruction set that uses RAM as cache but the RAM has to be the same frequency as the SPE's. the ps3 has 256MB XDRAM clocked at 3.2GHz and the cell clocked at 3.2GHz. the SPE's can use the XDRAM as cache because of the EIB and its fast/direct connection to that memory pool
the SPE's have external cache available for use, so you cannot say there not cores
go tell IBM and mercury computer systems that their wrong troll!
RiotFalls 1 month ago
@RiotFalls Well i can't verify what you have told me. But i have a question, why isnt this cpu the best out there then. You yourself said it sucks as a cpu. Why so it if all the SPE's can be easily used as general purpose cores using the EIB(which fyi i thought was inside the CPU not used to connect it with outside resources).
murder00redrum 1 month ago
@murder00redrum i'll look in my browsers history for the link and send it via PM, it was months ago
even though the cell can set its SPE's to work as cores with external cache, its still slower and requires extra specific instruction sets. the cell has only been used for half a decade with average level applications, most programmers who have coded for it even to this day don't know if will "show promise" or if it will "die out" for average consumer use now that ARM processors are advancing.
RiotFalls 1 month ago
@murder00redrum [Continued]
and the reason i say it sucks as a CPU is because there are things way better, the cells performance today compared to hex-core cpu's is dwarfed and they have all the extras that the cell has external all tucked inside and easier to use. back in 2006 the cell looked real good on paper but when used in applications it was comparable to the intel atom CPU performance wise, but if the device has RAM thats usable by the cell it can get a performance and usability boost.
RiotFalls 1 month ago
@RiotFalls It's really funny you say I don't know what I'm taking about, and then you post comments like those.
First of all, the XDR RAM is not cocked at 3.2 GHz, it's clocked at 400 MHz. Since it transfers eight bits per cycle, that makes a transfer rate of 3.2 GT/s (gigatranfers per second), NOT 3.2 GHz. In a similar way as DDR3-1600 RAM (two transfers per cycle) is clocked at 800 MHz (1600 MT/s or 1.6 GT/s), not 1600 MHz.
NewLynxS 3 weeks ago
@RiotFalls Continued...
Also, you cannot use RAM as cache. First, because cache needs a much higher bandwidth.Second, because unike RAM, cache isn't just storagei it needs additional logic units to predict which data to load and keep stored. Third, cache is not addressable by software, while RAM must be. And fourth, cache must be inside the CPU die to eliminate the latency that comes from having to use external buses.
NewLynxS 3 weeks ago
@RiotFalls Continued...
Murder00redrum was right, EIB connect structures INSIDE Cell's die. It is not the external bus to the XDR RAM, which has nothing to do with EIB and has a maximum bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s (at 400 MHz).
SPEs are not cores, they are parallel SIMD units. They have no cache, no direct access to the system memory, a much more limited instruction set and can only run vectorized instructions, which geatly limits what they can do compared to an actual core such as the PPE.
NewLynxS 3 weeks ago
@RiotFalls Continued...
Finally, Cell is absolutely not "decent" as a GPU. Sure, the nature of the SPEs (being parallel SIMD units like those used as stream processors on GPUs) allows Cell to perform reasonably well on shader-related tasks, like vector processing and post-processing effects. But it lacks other specialized structures GPUs have, like ROPs and TMUs, which means it achieves very low fillrates and, consequently, awful performance when handling the entire rendering process alone.
NewLynxS 3 weeks ago
@murder00redrum You're the guy who messaged me recently, right? Heads up here, this conversation was not taking the most correct directions.
NewLynxS 3 weeks ago
the cell is more powerful than an i7 retards
the only thing holding back the ps3 ever so slightly is its gpu ..what sony needs to do is update the graphic chip or double the v ram and wala
AlienHybridX 1 year ago
Comment removed
mathhenr 1 year ago
wow 60 fps, my pc on most game runs over 100fps
jasonf81 2 years ago
can your pc run cg level visuals ingame
ratchetsippi 2 years ago
@ratchetsippi
no better than cg, you heard of nvidia 3D vision? my gpu is 6 time better than the
ps3's my cpu is 20% faster than the ps3's
jasonf81 2 years ago
lol
ratchetsippi 2 years ago
I take it you have an AMD or Intel processor? Well Those processors are completely different in design to the Cell Broadband Engine, I don't know where you get this "20%" faster thing from, but it's not true. The Cell can even kick the Core I7's ass if the code was optimised for it.
SirMetalGH 2 years ago 3
what could the cell kick 2 i7's ass? skulltrial
jasonf81 2 years ago
@jasonf81 You can't tell the difference... The human eye can at the most detect about 30 fps... anything lower than that we may notice the frames skipping... So yeah, it doesn't matter if the frames are 60 fps, 100 fps or even 1000 fps.. it'll still look the same either way
DudeofWonders123 1 year ago
@DudeofWonders123 That's ridiculous. Our eyes don't work on frames, and they can EASILY see the difference between 30 and 60 frames per second (and much beyond that). Go to Google, type "difference 30 60 fps" and click I'm Feeling Lucky, you'll be taken to a page with the same flash animation at 15, 30 and 60 FPS, so you can check it yourself.
NewLynxChannel 1 year ago
@NewLynxChannel honestly, I could tell the difference between 15 and 30 fps but between 30 and 60 the difference is minimal.
RapturousDemise 1 year ago
@DudeofWonders123 Ok then, really what I'm trying to say about frames per second is that I honestly don't give a crap, doesn't anyone remember back with the older consoles where they ran at really low framerates and stuff.. no one complained back then...
DudeofWonders123 1 year ago
thers 1 PPE and 8 SPU'S 6 for gaming, 1 for OS and one spare. god people stop debating. lol. btw its SPU not SPE its synergistic processing unit! :)
rocknrollmetal93 2 years ago
@rocknrollmetal93 That's debatable.. In IBM's documentation, they use SPU to refer to the execution units and local store, while they use SPE to refer to the SPU + memory flow controller.
NerdInHisShoe 2 years ago
ah, well sony themselves said its SPU's in the cell if you look on the internet you find game developers talking about the cells SPUS on scources of information it is actuallly SPU's. SPU AND SPE could be the same or people might think its SPE from look at the PPE.
rocknrollmetal93 2 years ago
NO... people just dont know how use CELL...
look at Killzone 2 there only use 2-3th of 8 cell
kiwi539 2 years ago 14
really does killzone only use 3 processors out of the 8'th.
tazss159 2 years ago
its clearly obviously what YOU realy dont know how to use cell :D (no offense) first of all 6 cores available with games, 1 with OS 1 for reserve, secondly KL2 uses 4,5 of 6 cores, so accept this, ps3 almost reach its limits, in 2010-1 ps31 will be sucked up, so 2012 next generation will begin, this generation will show as not much more as you already saw
vegetaholic2 2 years ago
vegetaholic2
No, it is YOU, who doesn't know PS3's hardware..
The Cell has 9 cores, 1 PPE and 8 SPEs..The Cell in the PS3 has 2 SPEs that are unusable, so that leaves 7 cores, 1 PPE and 6 SPEs for gaming. Killzone 2 ONLY used the PPE and 3 SPEs. Across those 3 SPEs, GG only maxed them at 60%. That leaves 40% unused on just those 3 SPEs they used.
Common sense should tell you, PS3 is far from being maxed.
snowman8510 2 years ago
oh i laugh so hard :DDDDD you from where out of space????? ps3 has 8 CORES, jesus cryst just read ps3 hardware manual :DDDD 6 works with games, one with OS, one for reserve, killzone 2 developers sayed what they used 4,5 cores from 6 so dont be stupid and dont deny this with your stupid bullshit, couse you really make emberesing of yourself what you no nothing about ps3 :DDD
vegetaholic2 2 years ago
vegetaholic2
The Cell has 9 cores total, 1 PPE + 8 SPEs = 9 cores, right?
Guerilla Games stated they used the PPE and 3 SPEs..That means 3 SPEs were not used.
Please research.
snowman8510 2 years ago
no, 1 PPE + 7SPE= 6SPE working with games 1 PPE with OS 1SPE reserve, and will only work if one of 6SPE broke down.''''''The 12 page feature reveals more on Guerrilla's sequel. The feature mentions that KILLZONE 2 currently uses four and a half of the PLAYSTATION 3's six cores of the cell chip."""" now everything is clear???????????
vegetaholic2 2 years ago
vegetaholic2
IBM's documents stat that the Cell has 1 PPE with 8SPEs..They would know, they built the damn thing.
All Cell processors have 9 cores, but PS3s only has 7 usable cores, 1 PPe and 6 SPEs. 1 SPE does the OS, and another is for chip yields, thats why PS3 only has 7 usable cores.
You CAN'T use half a core..Killzone 2, as stated by GG, used the PPE and 3 SPEs..They would know, they developed the game.
snowman8510 2 years ago
i have to apologies you, yes tis written what ps3 has 1PPE and 8SPEs, but 1SPE will never work due improve chip yields so whats why everybody writing 1 PPE and 7 SPE, so theoretically it has 9 cores, but practically 8, and as i said it only work 6 SPE with games and you right 1PPE is seven, so i have to apologies second time, and what about 4.5 , every core has threads like xbox 360 has two threads in core so you can used 1.6 ghz instead of 3.2, so i think is same with ps3
vegetaholic2 2 years ago
vegetaholic2
Hey no worries..Everybody gets misinformed every now and again. I do it all the time..
Actually, the the 3.2GHz is the clock speed and you can't half that..Its either you're using the core or not.
snowman8510 2 years ago
thanks for understanding, and sorry for offense, now everything clear
vegetaholic2 2 years ago
PS3 is far from being a good console lol :D
i don't like any console...
The way its Computer :D
kamisakea 2 years ago
kamisakea
"i don't like any console"
Well then, we know not to listen to you when you say such things as "PS3 is far from being a good console".
snowman8510 2 years ago
If you knew anything about computers, you'd know the Cell Broadband Engine has 10 threads of multi-processing. Two threads for the PPE, and one thread per SPE. I don't know what crack your on, but Xbox 360 only has 6 threads. The PS3 nearly doubles in processing power.
ViciousDave4Life 2 years ago 2
did u hear that shitbox fanboys?haha,ps3 is so cool
stelispav 2 years ago 2
until they master the cell, ill stick with the "shitbox" and its wide variety of games and online play over the piss station anyday
Techsmartfood 2 years ago
you know the uncharted 2 among thieves that's coming out. They say that that's gona max out the cell. Do you really think uncharted 2 will do that.
tazss159 2 years ago
tazss159
Uncharted 2 won't max out the Cell..Uncharted 2 is using the PPE and 4 SPEs, only those SPEs are 'maxed'..But even then they're not cpmpletely maxed out, since ND isn't using efficient code.
snowman8510 2 years ago
bello bello bello!!!!!
hardware94 2 years ago
9th ps3 rules
Lebron23KING23James 3 years ago 9
Cool :)
superman559cali 3 years ago 4
US Air Force looking to purchase 300 PS3s for cell processor assessment
dominicanair 3 years ago
ooooooooo 6th comment ps3 rules!
DarthXephron 3 years ago 3
5th comment anyone else make a comment!
mutt2432 3 years ago
4th comment
mutt2432 3 years ago
1st comment
ps3andsonyfanboy 3 years ago
2nd
konoha100 3 years ago
3rd
ps3andsonyfanboy 3 years ago
8th
seniortac0 3 years ago
I guess i'll take the 10th spot.
PS3 is a winner!! PLAY B3YOND!!
IP1NKYI 2 years ago