I had never heard of John Carroll University, but clearly its students are a brave and courageous group. Good for them! And too bad the University itself is so cowardly.
As an LGBT alumni of John Carroll University, this video really makes me tear up. Thank you, students, for having the courage that I didn't have when I was attending there. I spent my whole time there closeted and afraid. Thank you for helping to make the school a better place for future LGBT students.
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OMG. What a bunch of losers. So many comments here are desperate attempts to justify homosexuality. Hilarious. If it's so normal, why do they feel so obligated to write comment after comment after comment to explain it? (See Listnut!! LMAO!) Enjoy your perversions folks. Just don't spent so long trying to justify them... you can't. With luck, if all gays stick to gay sex we might be rid of them one day. Cos it doesn't make babies! LOLOL
I wonder if LGBTQ would mind if the basketball team walked into the middle of their meeting and started disruptiong everything. You want to talk about rights, how about the rights of those two teams to play their game? No, that doesn't matter to a group that lacks the civility and politeness to allow others the same rights that they use. Freedom of speech for everyone...unless you disagree with what they have to say, in which case they will interrupt every meeting and gathering you have.
haha... look at Ray Bolger doin a whole lotta o' nothin! I'm glad that some students actually listen to professors when they talk about things like liberation theology, civil disobediance and civil rights. I'm also happy that the students' protest was successful and effectively won the inclusion of GLBT in the non-discrimination policy.
For example William Byne, a professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York said, "I remain skeptical... There's been a history of jumping to conclusions and overinterpreting findings in this field." It is trending right now for the mass media to print and promote what they want as they neglect reality.
The current literature, and most scholars in the field state that one's sexual orientaiton is NOT a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. There is NO scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation...
This is great. I ask for science and you site the work of a perfume critic for the New York Times. As for your Swedish study I was unable to find the actual article to see if the data was even statistically significant (for those of you who don't know what that means it is when p < 0.05). But I did come across many quotes by actual scientists (not journalist majors who write about gays for fun) that pointed to skepticism.
I own Chandler Burr's book, and can tell you that he uses ALL the scientific evidence that exhisted at the time, both pro and con, regarding the biology of sexual orientation. And, as far as YOUR point of view that sexual orientation is a choice, this is been FIRMLY dismissed in ALL medical establishments. It's really very passe to say this, and only shows that you come from a conservative religious perspective... I bet you believe the earth is 6000 years old, too? Right?
Despite almost a century of speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental sexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientaiton is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.
As for the rectum, it was not designed to have objects put into it. Its epithelial lining is too thin and does not over the protection from friction that the female sex organ does. Again, you can make these social arguments all you want but go ask a doctor how safe anal sex is. I think you will be upset by what you hear.
The rectum is PERFECTLY designed for anal intercourse. This is a fact. And, you also seem to ignore the fact that heterosexuals particpate in anal intercourse as well. I've never seen a straight porn video that does not include anal sex. Apparently, you haven't watched any straight porn, have you? Why is it that some straight people DENY that anal intercourse is rampant in their community? Why do they also deny that they participate in sodomy, which includes ORAL sex?
And, ask any lesbian about the effectiveness of heterosexual intercourse in stimulating their clitoris, and they'll tell you it can't hold a candle to what another woman can do to please them. In other words, gay sex is MORE satifying because someone with the same body parts knows how to please their partner. Do you know what a vagina feels like? If not, then how could you possibly please a woman? I have had hetero and homo sex, and there is simply NO comparison. Not even CLOSE...
You should read up on the history of the APA and how the conservative right wing PRESSURED them to place homosexuality on the list of mental illnesses. Before the 1950s, homosexuality was considered a normal "variant' of human sexuality. Then Kinsey's report on sexuality came out which showed that LOTS of gay sex was going on. The conservatives were fearful that this would be commonly known, and they pressured the APA to label homosexuality as an illness.
In the 1970s, blind tests were done which compared straight and gay patients. It was revealed that there was NO difference in gays and straights, and suddenly gay people were magically "cured" of this mystery illness. Some gay psychiatrists actually FOUGHT this decision, because they saw a loss of income due to losing their gay patients. This has been well documented...
Of course there heterosexuals that have HIV and AIDs but facts are facts. If you fall in the category of MSM then you have a higher relative risk than other people in the population of contracting HIV and almost every other STD and infectious disease out there. I am not making this up. Please I encourage you to look it up. Medical professionals are required to ask new patients if they fall into the category of MSM because it might alter their differential diagnosis.
Now, please explain to ware you using STDs as a reason to put down gay people, when I'm a happlily MARRIED gay man in a committed relationship. You are PROJECTING something onto all gay people simply because of a stereotype you've heard about. The FACT is that MEN are far more sexually active than women, and lesbians have the LOWEST STD rate of ALL groups. So, why are you even using this as a non-argument? It's silly... And, ALL sexually active males, straight and gay should cautious.
In closing, homosexuality is bad for society. Just look at the stats for MSM. The numbers don't lie. Rectal cancers, parasites, and just about every other infectious disease is higher for MSM. It is irresponsible for any society to promote these acts. The body was designed for one type of intercourse and the associated health risks for MSM are evidence of this truth. I'm not trying to be mean but you can't deny the truth and the facts.
LOL! This is so ignorant as to make me laugh out loud. What makes you think STDs are exclusive to gays? You are WAY out of touch with reality. AIDS ceased to be a crisis in the gay community a DECADE ago. By 2020, 8 million AIDS cases are expected in Asia, with 90 percent being due to HETEROSEXUAL sex. Finally, the male body is PERFECTLY designed for anal intercourse. As a matter of FACT, our most errogenous zone (the prostate) is only stimulated by anal intercourse. Next stupid comment?
I can't wait to see some link/ bogus cnn article that cphoover11 or some other "progressive" posts that has some left wing nut claiming they know the molecular genetics of inheritance.
@cphoover11 I'd like to see a legit controlled study that says being gay is hereditary. The problem is, one doesn't exist. Being gay is a choice just as deciding to go to JCU for college is a choice. So you can take your PL101 BS and impress someone who actually cares. I would have more respect for gays if they admitted that it is a choice instead of hiding behind the idea that they are born that way (...just as I was born a white male who happens to like women).
And, a Swedish brain study in 2008 discovered that the brain sizes of gay men and straight women were similar, and same with lesbians/straight men. It was such compelling evidence that a British researcher made this pronouncement:
As far as I'm concerned, this settles it, if you are gay, you are BORN gay. They went on to claim that they will eventually be able to predict sexual orientation in the womb...
Can you tell me when and WHY you chose to be straight? At what age did you decide this? Most experts in child development agree that sexual orientation is fully formed at the very LATEST by the age of two. So, you mean to tell me a two year old is enlightened enough to decide to be gay or straight? Your statement is clearly laughable... Finally, the Catholic church officially says that sexual orientaiton is INNATE and IMMUTABLE, and that gays should remain celibate..
It's kinda shitty that people are cheering as they are being hauled away. Why are they being taken away anyways? Perhaps I'm naive, but I see no legal reason for a police officer to be involved in this matter at all.
In this case there are no damages. The protesters are not complaining about being discriminated against. They are complaining about not being given discriminatorily favorable treatment by being included in some useless policy which only exists in the first place as a sop to some bureaucratic directive.
Unless the protesting students (and faculty) at JCU can demonstrate that their Lockean rights are being suppressed or denied (and they cannot) they should either shut up or leave. No one is making this claim. Instead, the protesters are affronted by Fr. Niehoff's refusal to bow to their demands. That is not a philosophical argument: It is a tantrum They should be dealt with accordingly; like two-year-olds.
@pensfan341 Should people be allowed to fire someone because they are black or asian or hispanic? It is in the tradition of the United States to protect people from the tyranny of the majority. While someone who is black should not have a job just because of their race; a qualified person should not be excluded simply because they are black. AfAction does not allow for unqualified minorities to be given a job or education it just assures that no minority group is being unfairly ignored.
Again this is wrongly being framed as an issue of "Rights" and "Equality"
"Lockean rights stipulate that each human possesses a natural right to his life, liberty, and honestly acquired property. This leads to a "negative" conception of liberty: freedom from coercion against one's person and legitimate property. Each person's uncoerced and free agreement to trade or to associate would give rise to a market society for the exchange of goods and services."
Locke also said that people have a right to own slaves because the slave chose to live a life of slavery over death and therefore slavery is justified...
@pensfan341 John Locke also said "No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." As a heterosexual, you have not been discriminated against because of your orientation, thus maybe you aren't the best person to be talking about this. In 28 states it is still legal to fire someone because of their sexuality. Homosexuality and Transgenderism have existed all throughout recorded history. It is time that this population finally gets recognition under the law equal to that of heterosexuals
I am a student at JCU and am beyond proud of this act of courage shown by both students, staff, and faculty. I only wish that I had known about the sit-in - I would have gladly participated.
We are so concerned today about being politically correct but have you ever thought that maybe this GLBT and "questioning" student movement is being unfair to John Carroll's right to hold the religious beliefs it does?
@boymeetsworld12 Someone's sexuality is immutable you cannot change what kind of person you are attracted to anymore than you can change the color of you skin. If this were another minority group demanding an anti-discrimination policy would you still say they were being unfair?
If you want to allow discrimination against LGBT people that is fine but you should not get a tax-exempt status. That is the way it should be and hopefully the way it soon will be.
Bluevozhak, you are trying to make an extreme comparison that does not apply to this situation. You are denying the fact that John Carroll is a Catholic university. They are not discriminating against homosexuals. They are just not promoting their actions. I don't dislike anyone based on something they choose to partake in as long as it does not negatively affect me. I think a person has every right to be gay but that doesn't mean I agree with their decision or the morality of their actions.
As a member of the faculty at John Carroll University, I stand in solidarity with the brave allies and members of the JCU LGBTQ community to recognize the ethical responsibility we share to interrupt practices of hatred and oppression. Too many of the righteous have fallen in the name of freedom, in the name of democracy, in the name of The Creator of the Universe! Stop the hate. The time to act is now; the time for justice and equality is now.
John Carroll gains much of its identity from being a jesuit university. With this comes the values of the Catholic faith which do not include the exceptance of homosexual practices. I feel it is within its right as a private school to have these beliefs. As a side note, what exactly is a "questioning" student and does that mean homosexuality in your mind is a choice. I thought everyone has been trying to say that it is linked to the xq28 gene (which is not even close to being true).
@boymeetsworld12 -so let me get this clear they are "private" so they can do whatever, so i guess a private school that is racist and white supremacist is ok? and a school that is anti women rights is ok ?and a school that is anti mixed race is ok? and a school that is pro-torture is ok? as long as they are private and their views are part of their identity it is ok right? please be careful of your words.
If you don't have the interest or time to read the book I told you about, this youtube video also will educate you in a few minutes about the biology of sexual orientation:
The law recognizes the ability of the American Psychiatric Association to diagnose mental disorders and they say this isnt one. So whats the argument? Why are we allowing politicians and bullshitters to blindside us from actual important issues. IF YOU DONT LIKE GAY MARRIAGE......DONT MARRY A GAY!!! End of story. Educate yourself, or shut up.
Okay. Are they students, because then they actually pay money to go to this "respectable" institution and thus have a say. Fricken, you are an idiot, and have obviously never met anyone who has gay parents. Whats worse is, you dont have the decency to keep your idiocy to yourself. Turns out HIV and AIDS dont descriminate the way you do. Also, plenty of straight couples use strap ons and have anal sex. Im sorry if your life is boring but get over yourself. You cant legislate religion people.
Once again gays are demonstrating the worthless facet they hold in society. There are good and bad ways to gain respect and equality amongst ones peers. this protest is nothing but a mockery of a respectable jesuit institution. Fortunately for the rest of society and humankind gays are incapable of reproducing and plagued with terrible diseases (maybe this isnt an accident). I repspect their right to express their flamboyancy, just dont do it in front a packed building that could care less
I live in University Heights, but I guess I'm a townie, because I can't remember the last time I set foot on campus or why. Anyway, good for these students. Bless them. I'm proud of them.
I also disagree that the purpose of marriage is procreation. This was brought up in the Federal case against Prop 8, and the judge laughed off the notion that procreation was essential by pointing out that the last couple he married were in their 80s and 90s, with NO hope of procreation resulting. And, if we as a nation allow Atheists to marry, then you cannot use religion as an argument against gays and lesbians marrying, can you?
And, your military argument has also been debunked historically. That's because your same argument about the "morale" and "cohesion" of the troups was brought up when blacks were forbidden from serving. We have since learned that it was WRONG to discriminate against blacks because of their skin color. Many people don't like comparing the struggle of blacks with gays, but there are direct parallels that cannot be denied.
The point about military cohesion *may* have been true at one point. But I doubt it's true today. Every top general in the US armed forces has come out publicly in favor of allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly. I take that as a pretty clear indication that it won't negatively affect their efficiency or ability to carry out the president's orders.
Yes, because marriage has just gone to pieces in Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Canada and MA (lowest divorce rate in the country). Since marriage is for rearing the nuclear family, should the infertile or elderly be banned from marriage?
Same could be said for the Israeli army. They really are known for being ineffective, inefficient and incompetent, due to allowing openly gay soldiers to serve, right?
Not just the elderly....they should also keep the middle aged from marrying (and should there be a required menopause/fertility test)? Or prevent older people (who have kids) who want to remarry after widowhood or divorce? They can't procreate, so, I guess with this line of thinking, they shouldn't be allowed to marry either.
There was actually a group in Washington state that attempted to place a ballot measure to vote on whether married couples who hadn't reproduced after a certain period should be forced to divorce! Of course, their point was clear: denying marriage to gays only because they won't procreate is not valid... It didn't get very far, but certainly exposed those who oppose gay marriage on grounds of procreation as ludicrous hypocrits...
the difference is, they don't need strap on dicks or anal sex to enjoy intimacy with their partner. They dont carry AIDS, and man and woman isnt taboo. and you even hear stories about people that are supposedly sterile, or 60 yr old women having children. When was the last time you heard of a male bearing a child. Plus it is very unfair to make a child go through life with gay parents. They aren't getting the same opportunity as other children, and are certainly the laugh of their primary class.
-The entire notion that "All men are created equal" is inherently a religious one. It is illogical to debate 'equality' without religion.
- I believe (although do not agree) that in our lifetime gays will be serving openly in the military and be able to be married. But this again confuses the idea of a "right" there is no "Right" to marriage and nor is there a "right" to access to military service...........
Thanks for your civility, first of all. Secondly, I do NOT view marriage as a religious issue. In fact, marriage is a social, and LEGAL contract between two adults and their government. If the couple wants the validation of a god, it is their personal choice, but the government shouldn't be recognizing it. In France, ALL couples marry at city hall. A religious marriage is NOT legal. A couple may, at some point, have a religious ceremony, but it isn't legally recognized.
I laughed out loud when it said "Questioning students...not being included in its Anti-discrimination statement." If they include students who are "Questioning" their sexuality what should they not include? Completely sure? Undecided? Has a good idea but is still considering?
Apparently, the school has a history of discriminating against gays. I don't know because I'm not related to the school. I'm a professor at a private Catholic University in CA, and I am gay, and married legally to my same sex spouse. MY school gave us a wedding shower, and we got a special blessing from the dean before our marriage. My school specifically does NOT discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and they are proud of this. I wouldn't teach anywhere else.
Great screen name: blah blah.... Spouting nonsense. It seems that the queer students got their point across didn't they? YOU are evidence that they are not treated equally.... These students are HEROS...! IF more gays acted like them, maybe finally gays would gain EQUAL rights when it comes to employment, military service, and marriage...
@lisztnut someone hacked into my account... i have no idea who that was. I'm very sorry. I would never say something like that. Everything is deleted.
Yeek...so much hatred in the comments section...we're all human with the ability to make our own decisions about life, right? I agree that these particular protesters could have picked a better time and place, but wow, saying things like 'get the hell out of ohio' and 'not having to deal with this *stuff* is why I went to a private religious school in the first place'... why be MEAN about it?? People confuse me.... o_0
I'm certain that the tragedy in Haiti is much more important than your gay protests and rants. NO ONE CARES. You will find absolutely no sympathy around here at this JESUIT university.
I went to this "Catholic" school to avoid shit like this. If I wanted immorality on parade, I'd have gone to some shithole like Ohio U. Do you political activists get that private RELIGIOUS institutions have the right to set their own policies without your unwanted input? Keep protesting, because nobody can or will enforce this unless the gays' version of Al Sharpton shows up and starts screaming discrimination...and even then, it will be a sham of "justice"
And if you want to be treated normally and want your gay rights and marriage. then you should act like normal people and it wouldn't matter if you're in the anti-discrimination policy then. It is absolutely DISGUSTING that you creeps didn't get punished for this selfish act of protest during a Haiti fundraiser. No one cares if you're gay until you walk onto a court holding a rainbow flag in open defiance. you have to think about who you're representing. its really embarrassing to the school.
I'm embarrassed to say that I am enrolled at John Carroll after seeing this. I don't say anything to you homos so why do you have to go out and publicize your gay selves like this. Gayness is taboo and there should be no pride WHATSOEVER in being gay. God hates you people.
@lisztnut perhaps God was created by man, but it was in order to form structural societies. If you didn't notice, everything that is against the law is against most religious morals as well. Then you ignorant crime-supporting liberals try to give all the power to the people. You people are worthless to this country and no rules will ever bend for you! alls you do is carry AIDS and destroy the natural cycle of generation.. you should be ashamed of your choice to turn gay
Speaking of embarrassing for your school, the rant you just put on here makes you sound like a rightwing nutcase (which you apparently ARE). Yes, god was created by man, and your god is intolerant, bigoted towards gays and women, and is a reflection of your OWN image. I don't like what I see... By the way, you are WAY out of step regarding AIDS. It CEASED being a problem in the gay community a DECADE ago. Don't you people in Ohio read newspapers?
AIDS is now a heterosexual disease worldwide. In fact, researchers estimate 8 million new AIDS cases in Asia alone by 2020, with 90 percent of infections stemming from heterosexual sex. It is YOUR problem now, not OURS... It's frightening how uninformed you are. Do you live under a rock? AIDS is NOT a gay disease any more. That stopped like TEN years ago... DUH!
My post is fooling no one? what are you talking about? Are you a current JCU student? If you are, then you would know that this sit in was during the fundraiser for Haiti put on by Senate. I don't have a problem with the sit in, I just don't think during a fundraiser was the best time.
I guess those homos got your attention, didn't they? Therefore, their strategy WORKED. They were smarter than you are.... People aren't quite "getting" it yet. Gays will NOT give up this fight until we have EQUALITY. Plain and simple. We are learning from the struggle of blacks. If you don't DEMAND what you want, you won't get it handed to you... Kudos to these great students who fought for their rights...
You know it's funny how the bigots and homophobes think that gay marriage will magically "disappear" just because people vote against it. If you learn anything from history, civil rights move FORWARDS not backwards. Therefore, we WILL have gay marriage, with or without popular support. Only a matter of time.... Hopefully, it will be decided where it should have been decided in the first place: in court....
Lisztnut. It always amazes me that people like you are sure anyone who disagrees with gay marriage must be a "homophobe and a bigot". But YOU are the compassionate tolerant one. Wow! Though marriage has been defined as one man one woman for thousands of years by every great society and revered by great people like MLK, Mother Teresa, Bill Clinton to name a few,YOU know better right? Why can't you see the intrinsic value to society of children being raised by a mom and dad?
You love spouting off about stuff you know NOTHING about, don't you? Elton John is NOT against gay marriage. He simply has said that gays in America should be happy with civil unions. That's his opinion, fine, but I'm quite sure he wouldn't say he was against gays marrying in England if this were possible.
PS On an aside note: I was raised in Ohio, and will NEVER live there again, as long as I live. I just can't deal with the midwestern attitudes and mentality...
One more thing, Irishmary, that you got WRONG: I live in CA, and the claims of violence by people who supported gay marriage or opposed it went BOTH ways. In fact, a Mormon busniessman sent threatening letters to other business leaders that if they didn't donate to the Prop 8 campaign, they would be publically humiliated and called "anti-family." This was documented in the LA Times. Also, the major of San Diego (who supported gay marriage), had his lawn vandalized. He testified in court.
Yes, you are absolutely right. People who oppose gay marriage are homophobes and bigots. Thanks for saying it first. And, too bad you didn't hear the testimony in the Federal case against Prop 8. A short history of marriage was given by an expert, and the continuously changing nature of marriage was outlined. Marriage has been in flux since it's origins as a Pagan ritual (that's right, the Christians stole the concept from Pagans).
It's inconceivable to someone like you that anyone can sincerely oppose redefining the most important social structure of society is in no small part because of the narcissism that characterizes much of the Left. Narcissism is an inability to see the world through the eyes of another. It's not just intellectually dishonest -it's deceitful-to say that those in favor of changing what has always been held as the IDEAL for children are the radical ones.
I find it disingenuous that you would call a gay couple, who has the means both emotionally and financially to support a child from a FAILED heterosexual relationship as "narcissistic." It seems to me YOU are the narcissitic one by assuming gays and lesbians can't parent, simply because we might not be the biological parent of a child we bring into our home for love and protection. Like I said before, it takes more than sperm and egg to be a good parent. It's amazing you don't GET that!
By the way, Bill Clinton supports gay marriage, as did Coretta Scott King, who said this: Amendments to ban gay marriage are nothing short of gay bashing. Gay people have families too, and those families deserve the protection of the government. I'm not aware of Mother Teresa's view on gay marriage. Fill me in... It has been speculated the MLK would have also supported gay rights, because he said "discrimination against one group hurts ALL people."
One more thing, the people like to spout off about children being raised by a mom and dad are completely uninformed. It has been documented that gay parents are equally good, if not BETTER. Some studies say lesbians (I'm a gay man) are BETTER at parenting than straights:
London Times article:
Lesbian Parents Better at Raising Children
Here's why: gay people earn more money per capita, have higher education, and do NOT have unwanted or unplanned children. We don't have abortions either!
Oh! so if you make more money per capita and have a higher education you are a better parent AND You don't have abortions or unwanted or unplanned children? Gee I wonder why that is??? What a stupid thing to say. Wow, you are clearly superior!!!
Saint Sebastion and Saint Bachus, two of the earliest saints in Christendom honored in Catholic, Orthodox AND Coptic traditions would be proud. After all. They were a same sex couple. And some of the oldest churches in the world(including in Rome) are named after them.
I do believe that universties which discriminate should ineligible for federal funds including federal student aid funds. This is a private religious school and though some Catholic schools DO includ sexual orientation and gender identity in their nondiscrimination policies, I respect freemdom of religion but not on taxpayers dime!
lavgrn.Your comments illustrate why gay marriage should NEVER BE LEGALIZED because if it is seen as equal in the eyes of the law any Church or company or individual that didn't agree or go along with performing or publicly supporting gay marriage would lose their tax status and/or would be breaking the law.This very thing is already happening in Massachusettes. Who cares about freedom of religion right. Only GLBT rights matter.Thanks for clarifying.
Again, you are NOT up on your facts. Here are the facts: ALL churches/synagogues/mosques are already legally protected regarding who they will and won't marry. My father is an Evangelical minister and will not marry any couple of one of them has been previously divorced. And, NO, this has NOT happened in Massachusetts. Cite your sources for this.
Can I ask you something? Of what concern is MY marriage to you? I've been legally married in CA to my same sex partner for over a year. Has your life been impacted by MY marriage or any gay marriage? If your answer is no, then you certainly shouldn't be allowed to vote on my marriage, correct?
Try to see THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.This is about the effect on society as a whole. There is documented study after study that children NEED a DAD and MOM.Can you honestly say you and your male partner raising a boy or a girl are EXACTLY EQUAL to what a mother and father bring to a child? This is not to say that gays can't love a child. Of coarse they can, and I have compassion for gays in this regard.BUT the INTRINSIC value to our society that children need a mom and dad role model is undeniable.
@irishmaryoh, Wow, Mary I don't know where to begin in all your LIES and inaccuracies. Study after study actually shows that gender does NOT matter in raising children. And, a GOOD parent is better than a biological parent who is BAD. This seems common sense, but has also been confirmed by study after study. Children do NOT, therefore, require a biological mother and father to become model citizens.
@irishmaryoh, It is safe to say that a biological mother who is a crack adict and prostutite would make a WORSE parent than a gay professional, such as myself. Since when does the way someone is concieved automatically make someone a superior parent? It takes more than sperm and egg donation to make a good parent. And, I'm surprised you don't "get it" yet. Are you saying adoptive parents are bad, whereas a biological parents are always better? NONSENSE...
@irishmaryoh, and YES, the ability to raise a child depends GREATLY on the education level of the parents, and on the income of the parents. Look at Haiti, where parents are literally giving away children because they cannot afford to feed them. Would those kids be better off starving with their biological parents, or living a comfortable life with an adoptive gay couple? Think about it. You are trying to convince me of something that you will NEVER be able to change my mind about.
@irishmaryoh. so I assume you think adoption is a bad thing, too? Am I correct? It is only a biological parent who is qualified to raise children? Interesting point of view you have there Mary... And, Yes, I repeat: gays and lesbians are PREPARED when we bring children into our families. We do NOT have unwanted children or unplanned children. I've never heard of a "teenage" lesbian mother, who has to decide whether to get an abortion in order to go to college, or drop out to have a kid.
@irishmaryoh, I happen to know personally lesbians couples who are raising boys, and gay male couples who are raising girls. In some cases these kids were from previous heterosexual marriages, in other cases the children were concieved by other methods. However, all of those kids are growing up perfectly normal with no adjustment problems nor problems relating to gender issues (and so far, ALL of them are straight). And, research studies confirm this to be true in general.
@irishmaryoh, The lawyers defending Prop 8 here in CA tried to produce studies that showed that children need a father and a mother. Guess what? They couldn't find ANY! And, their case literally fell apart before their eyes. Four of their six witnesses were withdrawn. OUR side of this argument kicked their butts in court, by citing study after study which showed just the opposite of their opinion. Gays are EQUAL at parenting. THIS is why those people didn't want the court case televised!
Finally, I'd like to point out how people twisted the Massachusetts Catholic adoptions story. Catholic Charities (for which my husband used to work) had been adopting children to gays for decades. When gay marriage became the law, four activist Catholic bishops decided to make a political "statement" against gay marriage, and so they refused to continue adopting children to gays. They used innocent children as pawns in their fight against gay marriage, and they're doing it in DC as we speak.
lala, you are quite mistaken. Have you ever talked to any of our priests? Maybe Catholicism technically is against homosexuality. However, I know a Jesuit who told me "times change, just because something is traditionally accepted by our religion, doesn't make it correct." Those are his words, not mine.
right "we don't do that stuff"...but but we don't discriminate...sorry, youtube shows different. If they have to sit it, it means they are fearfull that they are not being protected.
I am a John Carroll student and I'm away for the semester, but I wish I could have been there for this! Sooo many more students should have supported this cause... I hope this makes a difference!!
I COMPLETELY SUPPORT THEM 100% but the only thing that could of helped was if they were somehow able to get the basketball players to join them in protest by sitting on the floor with them, that would have would have helped them make a greater impact.
Kudos to this courageous group for standing up for equal rights for LGBT people. This has nothing to do with "special" rights - they are the same rights that straight people have. We should ALL have equal rights under the law - the right not to be discriminated against based on whom we love whether we are straight or LGBT.
I don't think it proves LGBT are anti sports. Since this country revolves around sporting events what better way to get the point across. Protesting at a musical theater event would just be preaching to the choir. Don't you think?
I would like everyone here to know that this GLBT protest group (John Carroll Allies) is a Catholic group who's moderator is a Jesuit. They have a true understanding of the most important rule of Catholicism, which most of you who are commenting here don't seem to understand. This includes people on both sides of the arguement. The Jesuits are the only order who seems to really have a grasp of what really matters, especially in regards to Social Justice.
I'm glad to see the students taking a stand in such a peaceful, respectful manner. What a great example for students and organizations that may want to follow in their footsteps.
Went to JCU. Sorry, but for a Jesuit school they are pretty darn accommodating for a lifestyle that the Catholic church deems to be sinful. Regardless of the discrimination policy, in practice I found people to be more likely to be called bigots for not supporting gays than to be called a homosexual slur for being gay. If you chose to go to a private, Catholic school, you should not be surprised when they don't leave their own beliefs behind to fit yours. Everyone knows what's up going in.
Kinda figures a Jesuit institution would not specifically include the protection of Lesbians, Gays, Bi-Sexuals, Transgendered, and Questioning students in its Anti-Discrimination Statement. You all should have that would have really shocked those Bible thumpers. Fucking Jesuits!
If you do not like the Jesuits, you can attend another University and or religion. There is nothing written that you havce to support the Jesuits or go to a Jesuit University. You have free will to relocate or associate to whom ever you want. The Jesuits have a right to hold their own moral standards. If you do not like it, quit the school and leave.
Such hatred, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hatered and Hatred leads to Suffering of the World. The Bible is the Word of God, some day you may read it and learn from it, it was written for you. I pray for you my child that you may fimd God in your heart.
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Not brave or courageous...idiotic!
nathinski 4 months ago
Not brave or courageous...idiotic!
nathinski 4 months ago
I had never heard of John Carroll University, but clearly its students are a brave and courageous group. Good for them! And too bad the University itself is so cowardly.
Rexcetera 1 year ago
As an LGBT alumni of John Carroll University, this video really makes me tear up. Thank you, students, for having the courage that I didn't have when I was attending there. I spent my whole time there closeted and afraid. Thank you for helping to make the school a better place for future LGBT students.
gentlegamer 1 year ago 2
I'm a JCU alum. . .and it's actually nice (for once) to see JCU students having some kind of backbone and standing up for something.
As for the gay-bashers, news to you - it's a catholic-jesuit school - the place is full of closeted and out gays. Deal with it. . .
This certainly is more interesting and relevant theater than D-III basketball.
rudedog46 1 year ago 3
i'm embarrassed as a student. why do they have to be so annoying, and unwilling to move?
sunny8792remote 1 year ago
the total amount of gays and lesbos on campus I would surmise
ColoradoRanger 1 year ago
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OMG. What a bunch of losers. So many comments here are desperate attempts to justify homosexuality. Hilarious. If it's so normal, why do they feel so obligated to write comment after comment after comment to explain it? (See Listnut!! LMAO!) Enjoy your perversions folks. Just don't spent so long trying to justify them... you can't. With luck, if all gays stick to gay sex we might be rid of them one day. Cos it doesn't make babies! LOLOL
WALSTEADH0USE 1 year ago
If you're gay why would you go to a private catholic university? Or is that what your parents wanted you to be??
jeannewos 1 year ago
I wonder if LGBTQ would mind if the basketball team walked into the middle of their meeting and started disruptiong everything. You want to talk about rights, how about the rights of those two teams to play their game? No, that doesn't matter to a group that lacks the civility and politeness to allow others the same rights that they use. Freedom of speech for everyone...unless you disagree with what they have to say, in which case they will interrupt every meeting and gathering you have.
tvfreak67 1 year ago
@tvfreak67 you're probably just angry cause you're gay.
pilot9391 1 year ago
haha... look at Ray Bolger doin a whole lotta o' nothin! I'm glad that some students actually listen to professors when they talk about things like liberation theology, civil disobediance and civil rights. I'm also happy that the students' protest was successful and effectively won the inclusion of GLBT in the non-discrimination policy.
wylstyle 1 year ago 4
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For example William Byne, a professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York said, "I remain skeptical... There's been a history of jumping to conclusions and overinterpreting findings in this field." It is trending right now for the mass media to print and promote what they want as they neglect reality.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
You've never answered my questions:
1 When did you choose to be straight?
2 Why did you choose to be straight?
lisztnut 1 year ago
American Academy of Pediatrics:
The current literature, and most scholars in the field state that one's sexual orientaiton is NOT a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. There is NO scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation...
lisztnut 1 year ago
The Catholic church's stance on homosexuality is exactly in line with the health organizations:
Sexual orientation is INNATE and IMMUTABLE...
lisztnut 1 year ago
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This is great. I ask for science and you site the work of a perfume critic for the New York Times. As for your Swedish study I was unable to find the actual article to see if the data was even statistically significant (for those of you who don't know what that means it is when p < 0.05). But I did come across many quotes by actual scientists (not journalist majors who write about gays for fun) that pointed to skepticism.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
I own Chandler Burr's book, and can tell you that he uses ALL the scientific evidence that exhisted at the time, both pro and con, regarding the biology of sexual orientation. And, as far as YOUR point of view that sexual orientation is a choice, this is been FIRMLY dismissed in ALL medical establishments. It's really very passe to say this, and only shows that you come from a conservative religious perspective... I bet you believe the earth is 6000 years old, too? Right?
lisztnut 1 year ago
Royal College of Psychiatrists (UK):
Despite almost a century of speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental sexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientaiton is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.
lisztnut 1 year ago
As for the rectum, it was not designed to have objects put into it. Its epithelial lining is too thin and does not over the protection from friction that the female sex organ does. Again, you can make these social arguments all you want but go ask a doctor how safe anal sex is. I think you will be upset by what you hear.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
The rectum is PERFECTLY designed for anal intercourse. This is a fact. And, you also seem to ignore the fact that heterosexuals particpate in anal intercourse as well. I've never seen a straight porn video that does not include anal sex. Apparently, you haven't watched any straight porn, have you? Why is it that some straight people DENY that anal intercourse is rampant in their community? Why do they also deny that they participate in sodomy, which includes ORAL sex?
lisztnut 1 year ago
And, ask any lesbian about the effectiveness of heterosexual intercourse in stimulating their clitoris, and they'll tell you it can't hold a candle to what another woman can do to please them. In other words, gay sex is MORE satifying because someone with the same body parts knows how to please their partner. Do you know what a vagina feels like? If not, then how could you possibly please a woman? I have had hetero and homo sex, and there is simply NO comparison. Not even CLOSE...
lisztnut 1 year ago
Google this article:
Symmetry of Homosexual Brain Resembles That of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds.
Science daily com, June 18, 2008
You will be linked to more in depth scientific data from that site...
lisztnut 1 year ago
You should read up on the history of the APA and how the conservative right wing PRESSURED them to place homosexuality on the list of mental illnesses. Before the 1950s, homosexuality was considered a normal "variant' of human sexuality. Then Kinsey's report on sexuality came out which showed that LOTS of gay sex was going on. The conservatives were fearful that this would be commonly known, and they pressured the APA to label homosexuality as an illness.
lisztnut 1 year ago
In the 1970s, blind tests were done which compared straight and gay patients. It was revealed that there was NO difference in gays and straights, and suddenly gay people were magically "cured" of this mystery illness. Some gay psychiatrists actually FOUGHT this decision, because they saw a loss of income due to losing their gay patients. This has been well documented...
lisztnut 1 year ago
Of course there heterosexuals that have HIV and AIDs but facts are facts. If you fall in the category of MSM then you have a higher relative risk than other people in the population of contracting HIV and almost every other STD and infectious disease out there. I am not making this up. Please I encourage you to look it up. Medical professionals are required to ask new patients if they fall into the category of MSM because it might alter their differential diagnosis.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
Now, please explain to ware you using STDs as a reason to put down gay people, when I'm a happlily MARRIED gay man in a committed relationship. You are PROJECTING something onto all gay people simply because of a stereotype you've heard about. The FACT is that MEN are far more sexually active than women, and lesbians have the LOWEST STD rate of ALL groups. So, why are you even using this as a non-argument? It's silly... And, ALL sexually active males, straight and gay should cautious.
lisztnut 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
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In closing, homosexuality is bad for society. Just look at the stats for MSM. The numbers don't lie. Rectal cancers, parasites, and just about every other infectious disease is higher for MSM. It is irresponsible for any society to promote these acts. The body was designed for one type of intercourse and the associated health risks for MSM are evidence of this truth. I'm not trying to be mean but you can't deny the truth and the facts.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
LOL! This is so ignorant as to make me laugh out loud. What makes you think STDs are exclusive to gays? You are WAY out of touch with reality. AIDS ceased to be a crisis in the gay community a DECADE ago. By 2020, 8 million AIDS cases are expected in Asia, with 90 percent being due to HETEROSEXUAL sex. Finally, the male body is PERFECTLY designed for anal intercourse. As a matter of FACT, our most errogenous zone (the prostate) is only stimulated by anal intercourse. Next stupid comment?
lisztnut 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
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I can't wait to see some link/ bogus cnn article that cphoover11 or some other "progressive" posts that has some left wing nut claiming they know the molecular genetics of inheritance.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
@cphoover11 I'd like to see a legit controlled study that says being gay is hereditary. The problem is, one doesn't exist. Being gay is a choice just as deciding to go to JCU for college is a choice. So you can take your PL101 BS and impress someone who actually cares. I would have more respect for gays if they admitted that it is a choice instead of hiding behind the idea that they are born that way (...just as I was born a white male who happens to like women).
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
Um, here again you are WRONG. There have been plenty of studies which point to a biological source of sexual orientation. Check out this book:
A Separate Creation, the search for the biological origins of sexual orientation by Chandler Burr
lisztnut 1 year ago
And, a Swedish brain study in 2008 discovered that the brain sizes of gay men and straight women were similar, and same with lesbians/straight men. It was such compelling evidence that a British researcher made this pronouncement:
As far as I'm concerned, this settles it, if you are gay, you are BORN gay. They went on to claim that they will eventually be able to predict sexual orientation in the womb...
lisztnut 1 year ago
Can you tell me when and WHY you chose to be straight? At what age did you decide this? Most experts in child development agree that sexual orientation is fully formed at the very LATEST by the age of two. So, you mean to tell me a two year old is enlightened enough to decide to be gay or straight? Your statement is clearly laughable... Finally, the Catholic church officially says that sexual orientaiton is INNATE and IMMUTABLE, and that gays should remain celibate..
lisztnut 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
every generation we have to put up with ridiculous stuff like this. what is it about early 20's that make them so "look at me, i'm important"!
Balthazaro 1 year ago
Huge waste of time
Run20Slaton 1 year ago
If so, it got YOUR attention, didn't it? Apparently, it wasn't such a waste of time after all... It WORKED...
lisztnut 1 year ago
It's kinda shitty that people are cheering as they are being hauled away. Why are they being taken away anyways? Perhaps I'm naive, but I see no legal reason for a police officer to be involved in this matter at all.
mentaluproar 1 year ago
In this case there are no damages. The protesters are not complaining about being discriminated against. They are complaining about not being given discriminatorily favorable treatment by being included in some useless policy which only exists in the first place as a sop to some bureaucratic directive.
pensfan341 1 year ago
So...
Unless the protesting students (and faculty) at JCU can demonstrate that their Lockean rights are being suppressed or denied (and they cannot) they should either shut up or leave. No one is making this claim. Instead, the protesters are affronted by Fr. Niehoff's refusal to bow to their demands. That is not a philosophical argument: It is a tantrum They should be dealt with accordingly; like two-year-olds.
pensfan341 1 year ago
@pensfan341 Should people be allowed to fire someone because they are black or asian or hispanic? It is in the tradition of the United States to protect people from the tyranny of the majority. While someone who is black should not have a job just because of their race; a qualified person should not be excluded simply because they are black. AfAction does not allow for unqualified minorities to be given a job or education it just assures that no minority group is being unfairly ignored.
cphoover11 1 year ago
Again this is wrongly being framed as an issue of "Rights" and "Equality"
"Lockean rights stipulate that each human possesses a natural right to his life, liberty, and honestly acquired property. This leads to a "negative" conception of liberty: freedom from coercion against one's person and legitimate property. Each person's uncoerced and free agreement to trade or to associate would give rise to a market society for the exchange of goods and services."
There is no right to a job...etc etc
pensfan341 1 year ago
Locke also said that people have a right to own slaves because the slave chose to live a life of slavery over death and therefore slavery is justified...
23rdNihilist 1 year ago
@pensfan341 John Locke also said "No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." As a heterosexual, you have not been discriminated against because of your orientation, thus maybe you aren't the best person to be talking about this. In 28 states it is still legal to fire someone because of their sexuality. Homosexuality and Transgenderism have existed all throughout recorded history. It is time that this population finally gets recognition under the law equal to that of heterosexuals
cphoover11 1 year ago
I am a student at JCU and am beyond proud of this act of courage shown by both students, staff, and faculty. I only wish that I had known about the sit-in - I would have gladly participated.
cleveohgal 1 year ago 11
We are so concerned today about being politically correct but have you ever thought that maybe this GLBT and "questioning" student movement is being unfair to John Carroll's right to hold the religious beliefs it does?
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
@boymeetsworld12 Someone's sexuality is immutable you cannot change what kind of person you are attracted to anymore than you can change the color of you skin. If this were another minority group demanding an anti-discrimination policy would you still say they were being unfair?
If you want to allow discrimination against LGBT people that is fine but you should not get a tax-exempt status. That is the way it should be and hopefully the way it soon will be.
cphoover11 1 year ago
Bluevozhak, you are trying to make an extreme comparison that does not apply to this situation. You are denying the fact that John Carroll is a Catholic university. They are not discriminating against homosexuals. They are just not promoting their actions. I don't dislike anyone based on something they choose to partake in as long as it does not negatively affect me. I think a person has every right to be gay but that doesn't mean I agree with their decision or the morality of their actions.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
As a member of the faculty at John Carroll University, I stand in solidarity with the brave allies and members of the JCU LGBTQ community to recognize the ethical responsibility we share to interrupt practices of hatred and oppression. Too many of the righteous have fallen in the name of freedom, in the name of democracy, in the name of The Creator of the Universe! Stop the hate. The time to act is now; the time for justice and equality is now.
interrupthatred 1 year ago 10
John Carroll gains much of its identity from being a jesuit university. With this comes the values of the Catholic faith which do not include the exceptance of homosexual practices. I feel it is within its right as a private school to have these beliefs. As a side note, what exactly is a "questioning" student and does that mean homosexuality in your mind is a choice. I thought everyone has been trying to say that it is linked to the xq28 gene (which is not even close to being true).
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
@boymeetsworld12 -so let me get this clear they are "private" so they can do whatever, so i guess a private school that is racist and white supremacist is ok? and a school that is anti women rights is ok ?and a school that is anti mixed race is ok? and a school that is pro-torture is ok? as long as they are private and their views are part of their identity it is ok right? please be careful of your words.
bluevozhak 1 year ago
It's acceptance not exceptance. You seem real intelligent
gostreaks8 1 year ago
I think you mean "you seem really intelligent." If you are confused you might want to look up "adverb" in the dictionary.
boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
OK, I get it, you're only 20 years old. Never mind what I previously said. Clearly you have a LOT to learn....
lisztnut 1 year ago
If you don't have the interest or time to read the book I told you about, this youtube video also will educate you in a few minutes about the biology of sexual orientation:
Gay education
lisztnut 1 year ago
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boymeetsworld12 1 year ago
The law recognizes the ability of the American Psychiatric Association to diagnose mental disorders and they say this isnt one. So whats the argument? Why are we allowing politicians and bullshitters to blindside us from actual important issues. IF YOU DONT LIKE GAY MARRIAGE......DONT MARRY A GAY!!! End of story. Educate yourself, or shut up.
Malychai 1 year ago
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frickenbill 1 year ago
Okay. Are they students, because then they actually pay money to go to this "respectable" institution and thus have a say. Fricken, you are an idiot, and have obviously never met anyone who has gay parents. Whats worse is, you dont have the decency to keep your idiocy to yourself. Turns out HIV and AIDS dont descriminate the way you do. Also, plenty of straight couples use strap ons and have anal sex. Im sorry if your life is boring but get over yourself. You cant legislate religion people.
Malychai 1 year ago
Once again gays are demonstrating the worthless facet they hold in society. There are good and bad ways to gain respect and equality amongst ones peers. this protest is nothing but a mockery of a respectable jesuit institution. Fortunately for the rest of society and humankind gays are incapable of reproducing and plagued with terrible diseases (maybe this isnt an accident). I repspect their right to express their flamboyancy, just dont do it in front a packed building that could care less
brendanbball44 1 year ago
Brave kids. Go for it. Equality is a worthy reason to delay a basketball game.
SonnyDL 1 year ago 3
I live in University Heights, but I guess I'm a townie, because I can't remember the last time I set foot on campus or why. Anyway, good for these students. Bless them. I'm proud of them.
audient 1 year ago 5
A heroic gesture.
xxdakxx 1 year ago 3
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Marriage is a social institution meant to encourage stability and the rearing of the nuclear family.
The military is meant to defend our country. It accomplishes this goal most efficiently when morale and team cohesion are at its highest.
In both of these cases allowing homosexuals to participate would detract from the stated and defined goals of each respective institution.
pensfan341 1 year ago
I also disagree that the purpose of marriage is procreation. This was brought up in the Federal case against Prop 8, and the judge laughed off the notion that procreation was essential by pointing out that the last couple he married were in their 80s and 90s, with NO hope of procreation resulting. And, if we as a nation allow Atheists to marry, then you cannot use religion as an argument against gays and lesbians marrying, can you?
lisztnut 1 year ago 2
And, your military argument has also been debunked historically. That's because your same argument about the "morale" and "cohesion" of the troups was brought up when blacks were forbidden from serving. We have since learned that it was WRONG to discriminate against blacks because of their skin color. Many people don't like comparing the struggle of blacks with gays, but there are direct parallels that cannot be denied.
lisztnut 1 year ago
The point about military cohesion *may* have been true at one point. But I doubt it's true today. Every top general in the US armed forces has come out publicly in favor of allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly. I take that as a pretty clear indication that it won't negatively affect their efficiency or ability to carry out the president's orders.
macunaima 1 year ago 2
Yes, because marriage has just gone to pieces in Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Canada and MA (lowest divorce rate in the country). Since marriage is for rearing the nuclear family, should the infertile or elderly be banned from marriage?
Same could be said for the Israeli army. They really are known for being ineffective, inefficient and incompetent, due to allowing openly gay soldiers to serve, right?
LynxChan 1 year ago
Not just the elderly....they should also keep the middle aged from marrying (and should there be a required menopause/fertility test)? Or prevent older people (who have kids) who want to remarry after widowhood or divorce? They can't procreate, so, I guess with this line of thinking, they shouldn't be allowed to marry either.
It's retarded, isn't it?
revhjohnson 1 year ago 2
There was actually a group in Washington state that attempted to place a ballot measure to vote on whether married couples who hadn't reproduced after a certain period should be forced to divorce! Of course, their point was clear: denying marriage to gays only because they won't procreate is not valid... It didn't get very far, but certainly exposed those who oppose gay marriage on grounds of procreation as ludicrous hypocrits...
lisztnut 1 year ago
the difference is, they don't need strap on dicks or anal sex to enjoy intimacy with their partner. They dont carry AIDS, and man and woman isnt taboo. and you even hear stories about people that are supposedly sterile, or 60 yr old women having children. When was the last time you heard of a male bearing a child. Plus it is very unfair to make a child go through life with gay parents. They aren't getting the same opportunity as other children, and are certainly the laugh of their primary class.
frickenbill 1 year ago
I'm sorry you were the laugh of your primary class. Being bullied and hated sucks.
revhjohnson 1 year ago
Couple more random thoughts
-The entire notion that "All men are created equal" is inherently a religious one. It is illogical to debate 'equality' without religion.
- I believe (although do not agree) that in our lifetime gays will be serving openly in the military and be able to be married. But this again confuses the idea of a "right" there is no "Right" to marriage and nor is there a "right" to access to military service...........
pensfan341 1 year ago
Thanks for your civility, first of all. Secondly, I do NOT view marriage as a religious issue. In fact, marriage is a social, and LEGAL contract between two adults and their government. If the couple wants the validation of a god, it is their personal choice, but the government shouldn't be recognizing it. In France, ALL couples marry at city hall. A religious marriage is NOT legal. A couple may, at some point, have a religious ceremony, but it isn't legally recognized.
lisztnut 1 year ago
I laughed out loud when it said "Questioning students...not being included in its Anti-discrimination statement." If they include students who are "Questioning" their sexuality what should they not include? Completely sure? Undecided? Has a good idea but is still considering?
pensfan341 1 year ago
I am willing to have a civil conversation about this (I just read all the comments, and it has been fairly civil as far as these things go)
But I have to repeat a previous question:
Exactly what rights are being violated?
Does every group and subset of people have a "right" to be included in JCU's anti discrimination paragraph?
pensfan341 1 year ago
Apparently, the school has a history of discriminating against gays. I don't know because I'm not related to the school. I'm a professor at a private Catholic University in CA, and I am gay, and married legally to my same sex spouse. MY school gave us a wedding shower, and we got a special blessing from the dean before our marriage. My school specifically does NOT discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and they are proud of this. I wouldn't teach anywhere else.
lisztnut 1 year ago
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blahdiddyblah14 1 year ago
wow this makes John Carroll look like the gayest school in the OAC
pensfan341 1 year ago
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blahdiddyblah14 1 year ago
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blahdiddyblah14 1 year ago
Great screen name: blah blah.... Spouting nonsense. It seems that the queer students got their point across didn't they? YOU are evidence that they are not treated equally.... These students are HEROS...! IF more gays acted like them, maybe finally gays would gain EQUAL rights when it comes to employment, military service, and marriage...
lisztnut 1 year ago
@lisztnut someone hacked into my account... i have no idea who that was. I'm very sorry. I would never say something like that. Everything is deleted.
blahdiddyblah14 1 year ago
Thanks for that. You have to see this youtube video:
Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else
lisztnut 1 year ago
Yeek...so much hatred in the comments section...we're all human with the ability to make our own decisions about life, right? I agree that these particular protesters could have picked a better time and place, but wow, saying things like 'get the hell out of ohio' and 'not having to deal with this *stuff* is why I went to a private religious school in the first place'... why be MEAN about it?? People confuse me.... o_0
maradashewolf 1 year ago
I'm certain that the tragedy in Haiti is much more important than your gay protests and rants. NO ONE CARES. You will find absolutely no sympathy around here at this JESUIT university.
frickenbill 1 year ago
I went to this "Catholic" school to avoid shit like this. If I wanted immorality on parade, I'd have gone to some shithole like Ohio U. Do you political activists get that private RELIGIOUS institutions have the right to set their own policies without your unwanted input? Keep protesting, because nobody can or will enforce this unless the gays' version of Al Sharpton shows up and starts screaming discrimination...and even then, it will be a sham of "justice"
stprocker 1 year ago
And if you want to be treated normally and want your gay rights and marriage. then you should act like normal people and it wouldn't matter if you're in the anti-discrimination policy then. It is absolutely DISGUSTING that you creeps didn't get punished for this selfish act of protest during a Haiti fundraiser. No one cares if you're gay until you walk onto a court holding a rainbow flag in open defiance. you have to think about who you're representing. its really embarrassing to the school.
frickenbill 1 year ago
at least i'll have grandchildren you fat gay loser.
frickenbill 1 year ago
I'm embarrassed to say that I am enrolled at John Carroll after seeing this. I don't say anything to you homos so why do you have to go out and publicize your gay selves like this. Gayness is taboo and there should be no pride WHATSOEVER in being gay. God hates you people.
frickenbill 1 year ago
Frickenbill, your first mistake is assuming there is a god. God was "created" by man, not vice versa... Good luck with your imaginary friend...
lisztnut 1 year ago
@lisztnut perhaps God was created by man, but it was in order to form structural societies. If you didn't notice, everything that is against the law is against most religious morals as well. Then you ignorant crime-supporting liberals try to give all the power to the people. You people are worthless to this country and no rules will ever bend for you! alls you do is carry AIDS and destroy the natural cycle of generation.. you should be ashamed of your choice to turn gay
frickenbill 1 year ago
Speaking of embarrassing for your school, the rant you just put on here makes you sound like a rightwing nutcase (which you apparently ARE). Yes, god was created by man, and your god is intolerant, bigoted towards gays and women, and is a reflection of your OWN image. I don't like what I see... By the way, you are WAY out of step regarding AIDS. It CEASED being a problem in the gay community a DECADE ago. Don't you people in Ohio read newspapers?
lisztnut 1 year ago 2
AIDS is now a heterosexual disease worldwide. In fact, researchers estimate 8 million new AIDS cases in Asia alone by 2020, with 90 percent of infections stemming from heterosexual sex. It is YOUR problem now, not OURS... It's frightening how uninformed you are. Do you live under a rock? AIDS is NOT a gay disease any more. That stopped like TEN years ago... DUH!
lisztnut 1 year ago
And, anyone with ANY brains gets the HELL out of OHIO!
lisztnut 1 year ago
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MultiWow77 1 year ago
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MultiWow77 1 year ago
@ the1smjb,
My post is fooling no one? what are you talking about? Are you a current JCU student? If you are, then you would know that this sit in was during the fundraiser for Haiti put on by Senate. I don't have a problem with the sit in, I just don't think during a fundraiser was the best time.
knutrockney77 1 year ago
You will tolerate our own intolerance or else!
If I was in the stands, having paid for the seat, I'd be quite pissed off at these asshats.
You're in college to be educated, not indoctrinated.
TMOTS
themanonthestreet 1 year ago
Amen TMOTS
I was there, paid for the seat, and was quite pissed. You gay homos get that?
hurricaneridge 1 year ago
I guess those homos got your attention, didn't they? Therefore, their strategy WORKED. They were smarter than you are.... People aren't quite "getting" it yet. Gays will NOT give up this fight until we have EQUALITY. Plain and simple. We are learning from the struggle of blacks. If you don't DEMAND what you want, you won't get it handed to you... Kudos to these great students who fought for their rights...
lisztnut 1 year ago
Kudos, a delicious snack to the students?
hurricaneridge 1 year ago
Oh, that's right, you're still a student. Let me define it for you. Kudos means "congratulations!"
lisztnut 1 year ago
You know it's funny how the bigots and homophobes think that gay marriage will magically "disappear" just because people vote against it. If you learn anything from history, civil rights move FORWARDS not backwards. Therefore, we WILL have gay marriage, with or without popular support. Only a matter of time.... Hopefully, it will be decided where it should have been decided in the first place: in court....
lisztnut 1 year ago
Lisztnut. It always amazes me that people like you are sure anyone who disagrees with gay marriage must be a "homophobe and a bigot". But YOU are the compassionate tolerant one. Wow! Though marriage has been defined as one man one woman for thousands of years by every great society and revered by great people like MLK, Mother Teresa, Bill Clinton to name a few,YOU know better right? Why can't you see the intrinsic value to society of children being raised by a mom and dad?
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
BTW Elton John OPPOSES GAY MARRIAGE,is he a homophobe bigot too?
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
You love spouting off about stuff you know NOTHING about, don't you? Elton John is NOT against gay marriage. He simply has said that gays in America should be happy with civil unions. That's his opinion, fine, but I'm quite sure he wouldn't say he was against gays marrying in England if this were possible.
lisztnut 1 year ago
PS On an aside note: I was raised in Ohio, and will NEVER live there again, as long as I live. I just can't deal with the midwestern attitudes and mentality...
lisztnut 1 year ago
@lisztnut good we don't want you people.
frickenbill 1 year ago
One more thing, Irishmary, that you got WRONG: I live in CA, and the claims of violence by people who supported gay marriage or opposed it went BOTH ways. In fact, a Mormon busniessman sent threatening letters to other business leaders that if they didn't donate to the Prop 8 campaign, they would be publically humiliated and called "anti-family." This was documented in the LA Times. Also, the major of San Diego (who supported gay marriage), had his lawn vandalized. He testified in court.
lisztnut 1 year ago
Yes, you are absolutely right. People who oppose gay marriage are homophobes and bigots. Thanks for saying it first. And, too bad you didn't hear the testimony in the Federal case against Prop 8. A short history of marriage was given by an expert, and the continuously changing nature of marriage was outlined. Marriage has been in flux since it's origins as a Pagan ritual (that's right, the Christians stole the concept from Pagans).
lisztnut 1 year ago
It's inconceivable to someone like you that anyone can sincerely oppose redefining the most important social structure of society is in no small part because of the narcissism that characterizes much of the Left. Narcissism is an inability to see the world through the eyes of another. It's not just intellectually dishonest -it's deceitful-to say that those in favor of changing what has always been held as the IDEAL for children are the radical ones.
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
I find it disingenuous that you would call a gay couple, who has the means both emotionally and financially to support a child from a FAILED heterosexual relationship as "narcissistic." It seems to me YOU are the narcissitic one by assuming gays and lesbians can't parent, simply because we might not be the biological parent of a child we bring into our home for love and protection. Like I said before, it takes more than sperm and egg to be a good parent. It's amazing you don't GET that!
lisztnut 1 year ago
By the way, Bill Clinton supports gay marriage, as did Coretta Scott King, who said this: Amendments to ban gay marriage are nothing short of gay bashing. Gay people have families too, and those families deserve the protection of the government. I'm not aware of Mother Teresa's view on gay marriage. Fill me in... It has been speculated the MLK would have also supported gay rights, because he said "discrimination against one group hurts ALL people."
lisztnut 1 year ago
One more thing, the people like to spout off about children being raised by a mom and dad are completely uninformed. It has been documented that gay parents are equally good, if not BETTER. Some studies say lesbians (I'm a gay man) are BETTER at parenting than straights:
London Times article:
Lesbian Parents Better at Raising Children
Here's why: gay people earn more money per capita, have higher education, and do NOT have unwanted or unplanned children. We don't have abortions either!
lisztnut 1 year ago
Oh! so if you make more money per capita and have a higher education you are a better parent AND You don't have abortions or unwanted or unplanned children? Gee I wonder why that is??? What a stupid thing to say. Wow, you are clearly superior!!!
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, Thanks for at least recognizing my superiority! I will accept your opinion on this...
lisztnut 1 year ago
gostreak, no i haven't talked to the priests
lala095 1 year ago
Bravo to these daring students. All the support from me up here in Canada!
hfxmagdude 1 year ago
Hey Canada do you know my friend Haywood? He's from Canada...
hurricaneridge 1 year ago
why did you guys eventually leave? i'm curious what they were telling you.
caisto5 1 year ago
i personally would not have chosen a basketball game...it just pisses off the people you are trying to get to support you.
caisto5 1 year ago
Caisto5 You said it perfectly and unambiguously. " Don't piss off thepeople you are trying to get to support you"
hurricaneridge 1 year ago
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xephro1 1 year ago
Saint Sebastion and Saint Bachus, two of the earliest saints in Christendom honored in Catholic, Orthodox AND Coptic traditions would be proud. After all. They were a same sex couple. And some of the oldest churches in the world(including in Rome) are named after them.
lavgrn 1 year ago
I do believe that universties which discriminate should ineligible for federal funds including federal student aid funds. This is a private religious school and though some Catholic schools DO includ sexual orientation and gender identity in their nondiscrimination policies, I respect freemdom of religion but not on taxpayers dime!
lavgrn 1 year ago
lavgrn.Your comments illustrate why gay marriage should NEVER BE LEGALIZED because if it is seen as equal in the eyes of the law any Church or company or individual that didn't agree or go along with performing or publicly supporting gay marriage would lose their tax status and/or would be breaking the law.This very thing is already happening in Massachusettes. Who cares about freedom of religion right. Only GLBT rights matter.Thanks for clarifying.
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
Again, you are NOT up on your facts. Here are the facts: ALL churches/synagogues/mosques are already legally protected regarding who they will and won't marry. My father is an Evangelical minister and will not marry any couple of one of them has been previously divorced. And, NO, this has NOT happened in Massachusetts. Cite your sources for this.
lisztnut 1 year ago
Can I ask you something? Of what concern is MY marriage to you? I've been legally married in CA to my same sex partner for over a year. Has your life been impacted by MY marriage or any gay marriage? If your answer is no, then you certainly shouldn't be allowed to vote on my marriage, correct?
lisztnut 1 year ago
Try to see THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.This is about the effect on society as a whole. There is documented study after study that children NEED a DAD and MOM.Can you honestly say you and your male partner raising a boy or a girl are EXACTLY EQUAL to what a mother and father bring to a child? This is not to say that gays can't love a child. Of coarse they can, and I have compassion for gays in this regard.BUT the INTRINSIC value to our society that children need a mom and dad role model is undeniable.
irishmaryoh 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, Wow, Mary I don't know where to begin in all your LIES and inaccuracies. Study after study actually shows that gender does NOT matter in raising children. And, a GOOD parent is better than a biological parent who is BAD. This seems common sense, but has also been confirmed by study after study. Children do NOT, therefore, require a biological mother and father to become model citizens.
lisztnut 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, It is safe to say that a biological mother who is a crack adict and prostutite would make a WORSE parent than a gay professional, such as myself. Since when does the way someone is concieved automatically make someone a superior parent? It takes more than sperm and egg donation to make a good parent. And, I'm surprised you don't "get it" yet. Are you saying adoptive parents are bad, whereas a biological parents are always better? NONSENSE...
lisztnut 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, and YES, the ability to raise a child depends GREATLY on the education level of the parents, and on the income of the parents. Look at Haiti, where parents are literally giving away children because they cannot afford to feed them. Would those kids be better off starving with their biological parents, or living a comfortable life with an adoptive gay couple? Think about it. You are trying to convince me of something that you will NEVER be able to change my mind about.
lisztnut 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh. so I assume you think adoption is a bad thing, too? Am I correct? It is only a biological parent who is qualified to raise children? Interesting point of view you have there Mary... And, Yes, I repeat: gays and lesbians are PREPARED when we bring children into our families. We do NOT have unwanted children or unplanned children. I've never heard of a "teenage" lesbian mother, who has to decide whether to get an abortion in order to go to college, or drop out to have a kid.
lisztnut 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, I happen to know personally lesbians couples who are raising boys, and gay male couples who are raising girls. In some cases these kids were from previous heterosexual marriages, in other cases the children were concieved by other methods. However, all of those kids are growing up perfectly normal with no adjustment problems nor problems relating to gender issues (and so far, ALL of them are straight). And, research studies confirm this to be true in general.
lisztnut 1 year ago
@irishmaryoh, The lawyers defending Prop 8 here in CA tried to produce studies that showed that children need a father and a mother. Guess what? They couldn't find ANY! And, their case literally fell apart before their eyes. Four of their six witnesses were withdrawn. OUR side of this argument kicked their butts in court, by citing study after study which showed just the opposite of their opinion. Gays are EQUAL at parenting. THIS is why those people didn't want the court case televised!
lisztnut 1 year ago
Finally, I'd like to point out how people twisted the Massachusetts Catholic adoptions story. Catholic Charities (for which my husband used to work) had been adopting children to gays for decades. When gay marriage became the law, four activist Catholic bishops decided to make a political "statement" against gay marriage, and so they refused to continue adopting children to gays. They used innocent children as pawns in their fight against gay marriage, and they're doing it in DC as we speak.
lisztnut 1 year ago
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lisztnut 1 year ago 2
I'm a JCU student and i think this is ridiculous. jesuits are catholic/christians and we don't support gay/lesbian/bi stuff
hellooo stupid peope
these students came to a catholic school knowing this. the religion may not support this but we don't discriminate against them.
lala095 1 year ago
So if JCU segregated blacks and put that into their policy to enforce to all newer students, you'd support that?
CaMaverick 1 year ago
no, all i'm saying is that jcu accepts gays/lesbian/bi but the religion doesn't support them.
we accept you but we don't support it.
lala095 1 year ago
lala, you are quite mistaken. Have you ever talked to any of our priests? Maybe Catholicism technically is against homosexuality. However, I know a Jesuit who told me "times change, just because something is traditionally accepted by our religion, doesn't make it correct." Those are his words, not mine.
gostreaks8 1 year ago
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xephro1 1 year ago
right "we don't do that stuff"...but but we don't discriminate...sorry, youtube shows different. If they have to sit it, it means they are fearfull that they are not being protected.
caisto5 1 year ago
I am a John Carroll student and I'm away for the semester, but I wish I could have been there for this! Sooo many more students should have supported this cause... I hope this makes a difference!!
DoreeS3223 1 year ago 5
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DoreeS3223 1 year ago
I COMPLETELY SUPPORT THEM 100% but the only thing that could of helped was if they were somehow able to get the basketball players to join them in protest by sitting on the floor with them, that would have would have helped them make a greater impact.
kierachick3 1 year ago 3
Kudos to this courageous group for standing up for equal rights for LGBT people. This has nothing to do with "special" rights - they are the same rights that straight people have. We should ALL have equal rights under the law - the right not to be discriminated against based on whom we love whether we are straight or LGBT.
lzambeni1 1 year ago 5
I don't think it proves LGBT are anti sports. Since this country revolves around sporting events what better way to get the point across. Protesting at a musical theater event would just be preaching to the choir. Don't you think?
praestant8 1 year ago
By virtue of the fact that "sexual orientatio0n" is already in the policy, why is this as big of an issue as it is becoming?
ZJester13 1 year ago
Yea thanks for your insight "doobiesmoker."
bobdebicker 1 year ago
This is sarcasm, yes?
the1smjb 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
too bad they didn't taze and beat the fuck out of those faggots. i wanna see the game not a bunch of cocksmokers and fat dyke carpet munchers
westmeat 1 year ago
I would like everyone here to know that this GLBT protest group (John Carroll Allies) is a Catholic group who's moderator is a Jesuit. They have a true understanding of the most important rule of Catholicism, which most of you who are commenting here don't seem to understand. This includes people on both sides of the arguement. The Jesuits are the only order who seems to really have a grasp of what really matters, especially in regards to Social Justice.
gostreaks8 1 year ago
Love it. Nice protest
jmtguy 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
BOO HOO WE WANT PROTECTION BECAUSE WE HAVE A VICTIM COMPLEX THAT DOESN'T ALLOW US TO DEFEND OURSELVES SINCE WERE DIRTY DUMB FAGGOTS BOO HOO
That's what I see with this protest
KizerxxKinnia 1 year ago
@KizerxxKinnia
Great logic there! Glad the smart ones are on our side! Moron...
CaMaverick 1 year ago
@CaMaverick
Yes, you wanting to fuck the same sex is smart.
Great logic there moron.
Or should I say dirty dumb faggot?
Either way you're fucking mentally challenged.
KizerxxKinnia 1 year ago
Kizer...grow the fuck up, would you?
the1smjb 1 year ago
This is WONDERFUL!
I'm glad to see the students taking a stand in such a peaceful, respectful manner. What a great example for students and organizations that may want to follow in their footsteps.
glapenguin 1 year ago 3
Went to JCU. Sorry, but for a Jesuit school they are pretty darn accommodating for a lifestyle that the Catholic church deems to be sinful. Regardless of the discrimination policy, in practice I found people to be more likely to be called bigots for not supporting gays than to be called a homosexual slur for being gay. If you chose to go to a private, Catholic school, you should not be surprised when they don't leave their own beliefs behind to fit yours. Everyone knows what's up going in.
royalgk 1 year ago
Kinda figures a Jesuit institution would not specifically include the protection of Lesbians, Gays, Bi-Sexuals, Transgendered, and Questioning students in its Anti-Discrimination Statement. You all should have that would have really shocked those Bible thumpers. Fucking Jesuits!
doobiesmoke15 1 year ago
If you do not like the Jesuits, you can attend another University and or religion. There is nothing written that you havce to support the Jesuits or go to a Jesuit University. You have free will to relocate or associate to whom ever you want. The Jesuits have a right to hold their own moral standards. If you do not like it, quit the school and leave.
UnjustClosings 1 year ago
@UnjustClosings I don't go to that stupid school. So there!
doobiesmoke15 1 year ago
You are missing out on a great education. Sorry to hear that...
UnjustClosings 1 year ago
@UnjustClosings Up your ass with broken glass you dumb jock. Unlike these idiots in that video I want nothing to do with your stupid bible academy.
doobiesmoke15 1 year ago
Such hatred, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hatered and Hatred leads to Suffering of the World. The Bible is the Word of God, some day you may read it and learn from it, it was written for you. I pray for you my child that you may fimd God in your heart.
UnjustClosings