Why Would the Father Send His Son? - Paul Washer

[rsaintgerard]

What is the name of the booklet He is using?, What commentary is it?

[Unmute2theword]

Amen to the message.

[ajregulate]

I would say I am a Calminian if I had to call myself any of the sort. I trust in the Holy Spirit to guide me and the Word of God. I do not rely on faillible doctrine of men. The Lord said "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me"

[erzhs]

We love you Pastor Paul Washer!

Praise God for you!

[ajregulate]

I enjoy Paul Washers teachings yet it troubles me that he holds a lot if not all Calvinist beliefs. I can say that I would agree with some points that Calvinist hold but some are just not Biblically sound. I love his passion for the Gospel though and his heart for winning souls for Christ.

[illbehonest]

which Calvinist parts would be wrong?

[the13thof12]

I wouls submit to you that the things you love about Washer are products of his Calvinism.

[ajregulate]

For instants, I would have to strongly disagree with the Calvinist belief of limited atonement and the fact that once saved always saved is not Biblical at all. I agree that God is all knowing but to say that we are no better then robots following preprogrammed lives and destinies is just heresy to Gods Word. I love the passion but not all of the doctrine.

[the13thof12]

To say we are no better than robots in Calvinist theology is to betray a great misapprehension of what Calvinism really is. Question: Do you believe in unlimited atonement?

[ajregulate]

Yes I do. I do not wish however to engage in a heated debate on the issues of Calvinism or Arminianism... just throwing in my 2 cents as its my personal opinion/belief. I am opposed to heated debates in which Christians seem to be drawn towards these days. I think that would displease the Lord in any case whether I am right or wrong.

[the13thof12]

I am not getting heated. What sat we proceed in the spirit of proverbs 27:17 ?

In case you are willing to do so here is my next question: Will everyone be saved or only those who repent and believe?

[ajregulate]

Those who repent and believe. There are so many scripture... too many to post that speak of who will enter the Kingdom and who will not. Those two words "repent" and "believe" have a lot more to it then people think. Not all who say "Lord, Lord" will enter. This would take more then a comment area to explain.

[the13thof12]

You are correct that it would take more than a you tube comment area to fully flesh this out, but some important points can still be made. I would like to point out to you that you have just posited a limited atonement. The atonement is limited to those who repent and believe. So saying you don't believe that the atonement is limited is not consistent. Here is the issue: Calvinists limit the intent of the atonement, and others limit it's power. continued........

[the13thof12]

We say that Christ's sacrifice actually accomplishes the salvation of his people, but the people for whom it was intended are a particular people chosen and drawn by God for his purposes and glory(John 6, Romans 8&9, Ephesians 1 etc...). Therefore we limit the scope of the atonement. People who hold your position have to say that Christ's sacrifice didn't really accomplish anything, but rather made salvation only a possibility.

[the13thof12]

This limits the power of the atonement, and sets God up as one who tries to save, but fails over and over again. Indeed, according to Jesus, most people will not be saved. Will God try to save everybody and fail most of the time?

[ajregulate]

The atonement was not limited to a certain select but for all the world. It was not limited, all though I will say it was conditional.

[ajregulate]

Lets say I went to pass out gospel tracts. The tracts are for everyone and anyone who wants to take one. The only thing is that person has to walk over and take it. I know that not everyone will take a tract yet its out there for whoever. Now I did not go out there with the intention of giving them to a certain group of people but all... not all will take one. This is my illustration on unlimited atonement.

[the13thof12]

Conditional? What condition need a sinner meet before he is saved? And if it is conditional then isn't it limited to those who actually meet the conditions? The problem with you illustration is that man doesn't want God. He must draw us. According to Jesus in John 6 the drawing of the father always results in the coming of the one who is drawn to the son. The son then keeps him secure. There are no people who would choose God if left in their natural state.

[the13thof12]

So you are still left with an atonement that is limited in it's ability to serve it's purpose. While the atonement of Calvinism, and indeed scripture, is limited in it's intent but not it's power. God actually accomplishes what he sets out to accomplish rather than making salvation an option and then leaving the succes of his plan in the hands of sinful men who hate him in the first place.

[ajregulate]

I feel you are twisting my illustration to fit the limited atonement view. This is dangerous when done with scripture. I can not convince you of my views and same as you can not convince me of your views unless Jesus decided to appear before us and set the record straight once and for all.

[the13thof12]

One of us has used scripture and one of us has not. If using scripture to back up what I am saying is dangerous then I'll happily live with that label. The fact of the matter is that scripture teaches irresistible grace, limited atonement, and perserverance. I have cited scripture and you have responded with mere assertions and your own illustrations. You have not responded with scripture. I cannot continue with this unless you are willing to apply sola scriptura to the converstation. Peace.

[ajregulate]

I believe this conversation is becoming heated. I dont think the Lord would smile upon this conversation as it is not bringing about any good just arguments. I am not one to argue about my faith as this is between me and God but I am willing to clarify my faith as to bring about good and not anger. I will give you a scripture but please calm yourself. Here is a scripture for you....

[ajregulate]

James 5:19-20-"Brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him let him know that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sins." This clearly shows that salvation can be lost. Any way you slice it the message stays the same. Also Saul had undoubtably lost his salvation. If you need scripture on this I can provide it as well.

[rsolomonjr]

"he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way." COVERTETH THE SINNER. not THE FORMER SAINT (peep the greek too if you'd like) .. Try again.

[ajregulate]

"if any of you do err from the truth" notice to err from truth you must have to first be in truth otherwise you would not be able to err from something you were never in. How can you stray away from something you were never a part of? also notice the listeners are called "Brethren"... this title was given to fellow believers. Matthew 23:8, Matthew 12:49, Luke 8:21, Hebrews 2:12, Romans 15:14 ...

[ajregulate]

Also to your statement... If someone errs or strays from the truth, don't you think they will be called a sinner? Do you think that even as a born again you will never sin? I think not. Many annointed men of God in the Bible have sinned and God had mercy on them. Saul, Jonah, Samson, Abraham, Peter and David just to name a few. Im not even trying... just stating the obvious.

[ajregulate]

Actually Saul ended up losing his salvation all together.

[ajregulate]

I think you are mistaken here. I love his passion and heart for saving souls but not all of the doctrine that Calvinist teach. You may say that his passion and heart for saving souls comes from his Calvinist doctrines but I would have to disagree and say that It is what it is... his passion and heart for saving souls.

[alexsonkung]

GOD when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

We are so precious in God's eye. JESUS from heaven become naked, poor, humiliate on cross, rose again & bought us back, restore all & redeem us all.

What can u give, we are broke... if GOD didn't send his SON.

[alexsonkung]

JESUS is our righteousness. Just Rest in HIM.

Our Savior forever & ever.

[vasiliosrigos]

My goodness ,the words right after he speaks of the cross country race are the exact words I spoke to God. Incredible.

Thank you paul washer God Bless

[jdjesusdisciple]

Just got his "The One True God" study and my girlfriend and I just started going through it. :)