(5/5) Timewatch Battle for Warsaw World War II

[werkzeug0]

if Poles so hate Russians than Poland should return to Germans Russian gifts - Silesia and Pomerania. Coming soon :D

[psysword]

the Russians were far worse than the Germans.... the Germans were gentlemen compared to the Russians....

[aguyfromTennessee]

@psysword Bullshit, read about the Dirlewanger Brigade. The Nazis were FAR worse.

[werkzeug0]

@psysword you are so smart

[hladami4]

@psysword You do not understand what you are saying. Rothschild communist Jews totally controlled Soviet Union - Russia and Russian people. That's evil Jews also developed Holocaust. Hitler's father was the son of Rothschilds. In holocaust only died 76 selected Jews not like they claim 6 million. Poland lost 12 million people, everything was on expenses of Polish people. I it will not tell you this Jewish-fake propaganda.

[TheGodParticle]

Those russians really know how to stick it in and break it off.

[brasso4u]

The war criminals FDR and Churchill knew very well that Stalin was a psychopath. They knew that the Soviet regime was an evil carnival of atrocities against everyone in the Soviet sphere of influence.

And the Allies supported this monstrosity. They forgave every war crime and encouraged even more with the seemingly never ending aid sent to Soviet Russia.

It's as if they wanted the Soviets to kill as many Europeans as possible. And they did.

WWI and WWII were the suicide of the West.

[BrotherWoody1]

The Warsaw Uprising is still the most significant guerrilla city battle & remains an unparalleled example for lovers of liberty everywhere. The Poles gave the world a great lesson in perseverance against even insurmountable odds.

Thanks for uploading.

[fitcat77]

The uprising was not pointless it exposed the moral poverty of stalinist regime; this must has hastened the end of soviet domination of Poland.

The poles taking part in the uprising were heroes of the eastern front just as the ordinary soviet soldier was a hero.

[Lasstpak]

There are not a lot of poeple who like Pools is there?

[djscotty1111]

2bn44RCT very moving... Thank You for posting.I will not forget them ... and I hope the youth of Poland will always respect and remember their sacrifice.

[freerka]

awesome show, thanks for posting!!!

[4lm4pN]

On second thought maybe they used that guys negative oppinion about the uprisng to downplay the significance of the event and therefore make themselves look better for not supporting something they try to depict as useless and unworthy of their effort to have engaged in it. Whatever the case may be I'm confident most viewers will see the real truth behind what actually happened and why.

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN "that guy", as you call him, was a Polish veteran who personally fought the Germans in the Uprising and your thought, second or otherwise, does not detract from his first hand testimony that it was "pointless and possibly harmful". If by "they" you mean Wanda Koscia (the programme producer), please be aware that both her parents were Polish members of the underground resistance movement who fought in the Uprising.

[4lm4pN]

... you'll see that this single guys oppinion is drowned out wthin thousands of voies expressing proudness at what had transpired despite the consequences - ask any Pole and you will find that the whole nation is with them to this day.

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN The principal eye witness at 7.21 is clearly Polish and proud "at what transpired" as a participant in the Uprising. That is why his evidence that its outcome was "pointless and possibly harmful" has credibility. His direct first hand powerful observation is, therefore, neither correctly ascribed as "opinion" nor "drowned out" by the contradictory "thousands of voices" you imagine because they were not expressed in the Programme.

[4lm4pN]

Thanks for the invite but im good with discussing things on YT. I doubt you could say the where tendentious in depicting the events - for me as a Pole, I'ts nice to see documentaries like this evenemerge after years of gloryfing the allies as "saviours the world" - and well I do take it personally since the whole of Poland is living the consequences of those selfish decisions to this day. If you watch some more programmes with testimonies from that particular event ...

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN please change you mind about my invite - Polish history is fascinating and, as for the tendentiousness of the programme makers you refer to, I thought I had made it clear this was not "in depicting the events" but in the editorial contradiction of the witnesses.

[elrjames777]

correction - please read 7.21 for 8.23 in my previous post - I apologize

[elrjames777]

The programme concludes by appearing to want the viewer to consider the uprising worthwhile "as a gesture of defiance". However, at 8.23 the man has just said that the uprising was "pointless and possibly harmful", which is understandable given the enormous casualties and suffering alluded to and the failure of its objective.

[4lm4pN]

@elrjames777 The program concludes to want the viewer to see the wasted lives and opportunity - all because of selfish politics, cynicism and a great allied betreyal on both british and soviet side. It didn't have to like that - that's what the documentary focuses upon. I pity you as a person if what you indeed conclued is what you wrote because as we all know it's a human trait to turn your head away from painul truth rather than admit it and live concious not repeating the same misakes.

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN Thanks for responding. I may sympathize with you sentiments, even so far as your implication of "British betrayal". However, I do believe that I was correct to draw attention to the contradiction between the Programme's conclusion and the direct evidence of the witness at 7.2. BBC television history wants us to accept the Uprising as "worthwhile as a gesture of defiance" but the participant clearly says it was " pointless and possibly harmful". "Timewatch" can't have it both ways.

[4lm4pN]

@elrjames777 I do believe they took most of Warsaw back when th uprising started - so It was far from pointless even from a military perspective. They couldn't however forsee tha they'd be left alone having ony so much resources to draw upon. Allied and soviet political machinations made it pointless in the end so far as tactical advantages of it went. I do accept that it may have been vieved like that by some paticipants given the outcome but I refuse to judge it like that based on ..

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN Yes, but my observations are merely asking viewers to consider if "Timewatch" has been tendentious in its editorial conclusions about the Uprising, contrary to direct evidence. Please understand that I have no negative issues with Poles generally and certainly not with the actual participants interviewed. You clearly have some difference of "perspective" from me, but I am available to discuss the topic with you further, if you wish, by an exchange of emails - elrjames777@yahoo.co.uk

[4lm4pN]

@elrjames777 .. a single persons subective perspective.

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN Yes, but the "subjective perspective" of the single Polish person I quoted (at 7.21) is that of an actual participant in the Uprising giving powerful final testimony for the film on the political outcome. Contrary to what BBC editors, at 60 + years distance, invite you to infer, this evidence was not refuted by any other contemporary Pole interviewed. The lady shown at 7.30 is repeat earlier footage expressing her laudable motivation for being in the Uprising, not its practical result.

[Eurofighter19]

Great documentary.



[JimTLonW6]

A very moving account of a squalid episode.

[elrjames777]

@JimTLonW6 sorry to be disagreeable, but how can an episode lack a cleaner - perhaps gruesome would better convey the meaning you intended.

[lectocom]

Any Pole could be forgiven for wishing nothing but death to Russians and Germans. Perhaps more so to Russians.

[PoliticalPars]

Thank you for uploading this documentary. Although I thought I had a good education, history lessons were the size of a thimble in comparison to what happened in World War II. 

[JaegerLeMaserati]

Germany should have been split up and forgotten forever ... I don't think Germany deserves to exist as a nation today.

[MsAppleeater]

I just want Brits to watch that kind of videos before laughing that Poles have russophobia, though anti-german sentiment seems to be understood in Europe although I don't support it, but understand it

[melisanda7]

I hate the palace of culture and science in Warsaw..." a gift from the soviet union"... so ugly....I want it to disappear

[licicaviki]

"I would like to protest against mean and cowardly attitude of the British press towards the uprising in Warsaw [...]. In general an impression was created, that the Poles deserve to be beaten, even though they were doing exactly all of this, to which allies broadcasting stations were calling them for several years […]. This is my message for leftist journalists and for intelligence – in general.

[licicaviki]

Remember, that one always pays for his dishonesty and cowardice. Don’t even think, that for years on end you will be shoes licking servants of the Soviet regime, and then suddenly you will return to the spiritual decency." -George Orwell, 1 September 1944

[VitaminsAndPiss]

It is amazing, the excat smae shit as this is happening in the middle-east and we call them terrorists. We must be Nazis.

[Builingeverything]

Both the nazis and communist were equally enemies to Poland in the beginning of WW2. But now, the soviets are hated much more then the nazies. I remember my dad saying in school how you were taught that the Russians were liberators and brought freedom when they were the Polish commom enemy.

[Builingeverything]

Both the nazis and communist were equally enemies to Poland in the beginning of WW2. But now, the soviets are hated much more then the nazies. I remember my dad saying in school how you were taught that the Russians were liberators and brought freedom when they were the Polish commom enemy.

[PolProud]

Neo9129 >> don't worry , soon we will lead our Proud Country and we will show western europe how strong, wise and how ,,big hearts'' we have! I am proud I'm POLE

[manuesko]

I'm not Pole, i'm half french and Italian...but i hate Russian state, Russian governement and Russian behavior in society and politics.

Russia is a savage country since centuries and it still lasts nowadays ...

[Neo9129]

Winston Churchill and Roosevelt sold Poland in Tehran and Yalta. In the name of what I must ask ? Poles fought in the Battle of Britain in 1940, the Poles fought at Tobruk in 1942, the Poles fought in Battle of Monte Cassino, in Falaise pocket and Arnhem in 1944. During the Second World War, on the side of the allies fought more Poles than the French.

[MsAppleeater]

@Neo9129 it was so tragic what happen to Poland during the war, uprising and after and I'm saying this as Pole....but honestly what Britain could do to liberate us as Red Army was already on our territory?? When I was teenager I thought the same way as you...betrayal...but now I think that we had bad luck to live between Germany and Russia, like a sandwich, in 1939 western Europe had chance to change our destiny but this is other subject

[werkzeug0]

@Neo9129 this is just business

[Neo9129]

What Poles got an award for this? In 1946, we were not invited to the "Victory Parade over the Germans" in London. Even the Czechs have been invited, which the Allies fought a few thousand... The national territory has been reduced by 1 / 3. Thousands of people were murdered by the new Soviet occupation.

[Neo9129]

Now we (Poles) are called people who built the concentration camps end murdered the Jews. You treats us "better" than Germans or Russians. You do not have a honor. More importantly for you is count was more money than conscience. Remember, however, that the truth will never die. I do not know how you Americans end British did not know how to say the one word - s o r r y. Shame on you...

[randomuser2036]

Stalin was the most cynical bastard in the whole of history, arsehole.

[werkzeug0]

@randomuser2036 yes, Stalin is a great man

[abrasse1]

i think there's no reason to hate russian, guys...

i've came to conclusion that they like in a country far from being democratic, they are brainwashed everyday...we just should feel sorry for them.

in addiction they have very low iq. which was proven yesterday by kgb murderer- putin.all european newspapers criticized putin just stupid russians believed him.

so let's just feel sorry for them.

[MsAppleeater]

@abrasse1 I can feel sorry for them until they don't attact me and force me to live my home....and I also know that stupid or brainwashed people are most dangerous

[zuluslaw]

Among many uprisings Polish nation had throughout the ages, the Warsaw Uprising is the saddest and most dreadful of them all...

[HoustonGD]

It was so horrible that the Waffen SS shot some of its commanders after the uprising was suppressed.

[hhhoooaaaxxx]

why? that was good!

all the Germans from that time deserves to die!

[Jumis25]

GLORIA VICTIS!

[ShortySOM]

A salute to the bravery of the men, women and children who fought for freedom in the face of incredible odds. I'm proud to have Polish blood running through my veins.

[PolishAmericanDC]

now the radical zionist groups wants from poland $65 billions dollars

for what and pay to who?

[maximus14433]

zionist can suck our balls and choke to death in our showers.

[hhhoooaaaxxx]

yeah american congres thats is ruled by juden were moaning something about Poland paying money for jewish loses. i think that americans should first pay for Indians loses than they can talk to us about those retributions. and any ways fuck us and jews!!!

[PolishAmericanDC]

is trying to wash away

its own blame for the holocaust. When in 1942-3 Polish and

Jewish courriers were sent to the US informing of the horrors

being fabricated in the concentration camps - nobody believed

them, the Jewish-Americans including. How can one blame Polish

nation and try to make them responsible for things they have not

performed.

[PolishAmericanDC]

We, the Polish community, are shocked by this outrageous

anti-polish actions that are massively being taken by the Jewish

community trying to missinform the international opinion about

the historical facts and trying to pass the responsibility onto

the Polish nation. It seems as if "old" Jewish-American

community (from before the II World War

[Neo9129]

Yes I know, the true hurt... If you don't believe me look on this site : behind clesed doors . That was made by U.S. TV.

[hhhoooaaaxxx]

us and british bbc with the help of us british and Polish historians

[Neo9129]

Winston Churchill and Roosevelt sold Poland in Tehran and Yalta.England has sold its most faithful ally . In the name of which I must ask? Poles fought for Britain in 1940. Poles fought for Tobruk in 1942. Poles fought at Arnhem in 1944. Poles fought at Monte Casino in 1944. During the war for the Allies fought the Poles more than the French. What it got the award for the Poles? The national territory has been reduced by 1 / 3.Thousands of people were killed by the new Soviet Union occupation.

[saigokun]

Thanks for posting this impressive documentary, even if it did contain a few errors.

[SillyGrandpa]

Saigokun: What errors did this documentary contain??? Just curious.

[commadoremathewperry]

poland got struck in between germany and russia

[EvilAlice67]

I can understand why the Poles hate both Germans and Russians , but the Russians still haven't paid a price for their crimes in Poland .

[hhhoooaaaxxx]

germans too

[MsAppleeater]

@EvilAlice67 there is one bitter live rule: "the winner is always right", you know

[IvoryBrother]

@EvilAlice67 -- As a Pole whose grandfather was killed by the Nazis the second day of Uprising; whose grandmother carrying my mother in her arms (then just only 7-years-old!) was seeking an escape from a burning city after being thrown out from her own apartment leaving my grandfather's body behind and all their possessions - I can say that we don't hate the Germans. We don't hate the Russians who are responsible for Katyn Massacre and more. We hate what their ancestors have done to us.

[PoliticalPars]

@IvoryBrother Thank you so much for saying this. I am learning to forgive, even if I never forget.

[STOPTHEEU]

@EvilAlice67 What the hell is the price of such?

[yaroslave]

@STOPTHEEU admiting what they did would be enough for us poles

[4lm4pN]

@EvilAlice67 Same thing here, you're missing the point, the Nazi and Soviet regeimes at the time where evil to the core - we didn't expect any better from them, but we did expect a helping hand from the allies, instead we where sold out and forgotten. Poles wheren't even allowed to join the subsequent London victory parade, by the decision of british government. We don give a shit about russians, what hurts more is brits and americans gloryfing their war efforts endlessy in the face of the facts

[jasiekz]

@EvilAlice67  It's not hate. It is pain.

[OrlopRat42]

Good people will never forget their bravery. In defeat they found glory.

Walczyli dobrej wojny.

GLORIA VICTIS

[WodzooPL]

...gloria victis!

thanks for upload!

[cuttock]

I feel badly for the Poles, always victims of Germans and Russians. I don't blame the Poles to have a seething hatred for these two nations.

[maximus14433]

we solely hate the Russians I think...

[brainstormnl]

whe hate the germans more .

even today,whe stil not forgive

[globfrob]

I think we should hate the russians more, like a TINY bit more. But the fact remains we hate them both more than anything.

[MsAppleeater]

@globfrob what a terrible statement "we need to hate more" so odd.....

[MsAppleeater]

@brainstormnl don't agree

[licicaviki]

@cuttock Generally We not hate Germans or Russians as nations... but as lovers and founders of totalitarian systems and big fans of imperialistic plans for Poland inside. As Walesa say "Poland is the place where Russia and Germany love to meet together".

[Poeskaas]

@cuttock You cant hate a nation for the action of some individuals.. Not every single German or Russian is Guilty. If the Poles hate these 2 nations then they pretty much got what they deserved. If you hate everybody then soon everybody will hate you..

[cuttock]

@Poeskaas

I appreciate your thoughtful comment. I will take it in consideration!

[MsAppleeater]

@Poeskaas you missed chronology, Germans and Russians attacked us, did what they did - then hatred started, not otherwise, try to understand a little it's hard to say "oh you killed millions of us, created dreadful terror, but don't worry we still love you", I don support hatred but some feelings will last for a long time as history of oppression of those 2 neighbours are much longer than WWII

[MsAppleeater]

@cuttock I wouldn't say 'hatred' these days, we need to move on and we do

[4lm4pN]

@cuttock The hatred for opressors doesn't last as long as dissapointment after being betrayed by who we believed to be our friends and allies at that time.

[4lm4pN]

@cuttock Nah - we where kicking their asses for centuries man - only when Prussia, Russia and Austraia ganed up on us in a time of poitical instability have they succeeded in partitioning the country and trying to wipe out its culture they didn't succeed for over 120 years of occupation, 1st and 2nd World War - so don't feel bad for us dude - we can endure.

[elrjames777]

@4lm4pN do you really believe that it is in the best interests of Poland to allude to her as a nation of "ass kickers" that simply "endure" her neighbours. Please rather research and post the hugely positive contribution she has made, and continues to make, to European culture and developement. Love of country is a fine thing but consider: " patriotism is not enough - I must have no hatred or bitterness for anyone".

[4lm4pN]

@cuttock Talk about seething hatered well - Russians hate us to this day, because Poles where the only people that conquered Moscow and made their tsar bow to our king. I'ts a very sgnificant event for them to this day - we punched a hole in their imperialistic megalomania. The day they reclaimed Moscow from polish hands is a national holiday in Russia untill today. See, Napoleon tried, Hitler tried - Poles did it. So don't be sorry, there are a lot of glorious facts in polish history.

[cuttock]

@4lm4pN

Thank you for educating me. I know the Mongols and Tatars raided Moscow, and made the princes of Muscovy their vassals. But the poles were the only one to make the Tsar surrender. that is something I will study now!

And yes, the Polish nation has a glorious history.

[akchicago21]

@4lm4pN said "...Russians hate us to this day, because Poles where the only people that conquered Moscow and made their tsar bow to our king..."

Sir, who cares about that event now? Only idiots would hate you for something that happened 400 years ago.

I am Russian, I love Poland, polish culture, history and people.

God bless Poland and it's people.

[michaelwright999]

@cuttock DONT KID YOURSELF, THE GIRLS LOVED HARD NAZI COCK.

[Lasstpak]

@cuttock And the Poles are the Saints? Do not forget that they to hand an empire and that they tride to take Moskow and where not very plesent while doing it.

It only Karma.