The rapture and Jesus second coming, are two separate prophetic events!
It doesn't matter what people think, and what they say! Nothing is going to change Gods plan. Heb. 6:18
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. That says at all! Amen. Praise the Lord.
The great tribulation... is the wrath of God! No question about it.
also,i think to include the 4 beast and elders as resurrections is an assumption.nowhere does it say these guys have been resurrected.especially the 4 creatures-they're angels-not redeemed beings.as far as the elders,they could have been those resurrected in mat27.i think its a mistake to assume they are anyone in particular,actually,because the bible just doesnt come right out and tell us....thats enough for tonight.i have a lil more,but i think we have enough to discuss at this point.
@prewrathrapture333 ...Let me respond to the last part of your comment , first. The "4 beasts" are "a numbered company",(folllowing the scriptural outline in exodus, on firstfruits) and "testify', together with the "24 Elders" in Rev.5:8-10, that they are "redeemed from every tribe ,tongue, nation and people". So that should settle that issue. The "24 Elders", is the "firstfruit order" to take place "just before the "man of sin be revealed".(they are the "hinderer", mentioned in 2.Thess.2:7)
....the "He" of 2.thess.2:7, is Not the Holy Spirit, as so many erroneously think, but this "firstfruit' order of the "24 Elders". The church is called the "Body of Christ",(a masculine body, not a female body such as "a bride", which is the New Jerusalem) We are to grow to full stature "of Man" in Christ, etc. etc. It is this "restraining power", that is also exhibited in the 144,000, (God's modus operandi) that pinpoints the time-line for the "sealing" and thereafter "resurrection" of the...
...144,000. Their "resurrection" takes place at the exact "mid-point" of the seven years, after which the Antichrist steps on the scene, for his "alotted" 1260 days, of the 'Great tribulation'. (at which time also the "two witnesses" Enoch and Elijah, will minister. It is in this "last half" of the "7 year covenant",(Dan.9:27) that the tribulation martyrs will be killed, as well as the fact that this is the time-line, of which Jesus referred to as "being shortened",(or no flesh would be saved)
...The "shortened days", are discussed in Daniel, and total 110 days, then the simultaneous sevent Vial/Trumpet, which brings about the Battle of Armageddon,(Rev.14:17-20, preceeded by the "harvest of the Earth", Rev.14:14-16) As for the 144,000, they are "pictured in Heaven" in Rev.14:1-4, with the other two
" firstfruit orders"(the "4 Beasts", and the "24 Elders") and the 144,000, are speciffically mentioned to be the "firstfruits to God and the Lamb". (notice that no angels are mentioned..
...here, as in Rev. 4:1-6. This is an All "firstfruit gathering". As for the timing of the resurrection of the "main Harvest" of the earth,(as well as the Martyrs, which must include the two witnesses, and every last martyr) Jesus aid in Jn.6:39,40, 44,54, and also Jn.17, (five times) "I will raise him on the LAST DAY". What this refers to, is the fact that there are only "two ages" discussed in scripture. Jesus refered to them as, "this present Evil age" and "the age to come". The "last ...
....day" spoken in Jn.6:39,40,44,54, Refers to this "present evil age". The "age to come" refers to the "Millenium".
The "restitution of all things", (spoken of in Acts.3:20-21) cannot begin untill the battle of Armageddon is complete. (all these facts oppose the pre-wrath theory) The tribulation period, is Not the wrath of God, as so many surmise. The Wrath of God, only begins, with the "pouring out" of the seven Vials, and the seven Trumpets. Notice the "correct order" in which I have ....
...placed them. All teachin today, erroneously place the Trumpets "before" the Vials. This is incorrect, as Rev.10:5-7, makes it clear, that the seventh Trumpet, is the "final" judgment, that "ends the tribulation" and completes the "mystery of God, given to his prophets". If you read Rev.8:2, you read about the seven angels given the seven Trumpets, but before they go out of teh hevenly Temple,(verse 6) we still find them in Rev. 15:1, and here the seven Trumpets, are called the seven "last...
....plagues". (just bear with me for a moment) Then in 15:5-6 we first Now, find the seven angels coming "out of the Temple", and it says in verse 6, (already) "Having the seven plagues"(the seven Trumpets) Then in verse 7,
they are given (an additional) "seven golden Vials". If you study these judgments, you will discover, that the sixth Vial, and sixth Trumpet have the same result. this is a "one time" event. The same is evident in the second
....my point being, that the prevailing "school of thought" is incorrect, especially in light of the fact, that Rev.10:5-7
categorically "refutes" any judgment to take place "after" the seventh Trumpet. I realize that it is impossible in these short illustrations given, to have you understand the complex nature of the "first resurrection and it's Seven different and distinct orders". What I present, has NEVER BEFORE, been discussed in theology, and it is time I get a Platform. Thanks
@sorens70601 thats all a bunch of assumption.no better than the pretribbers.just another theory that u cant bang the desk on.u assume the 4 beasts are testifying with the elders and so on.and ur time line for the sealing cant be the mid point of trib.the midpoint is when we see the abomination(mat24:15),the 144000 are sealed after the sun/moon(rev6:12;mat24:29)-this is well after the midpoint of trib.i tried to keep my comment short so we can have an exchange,im not gona answer half ur book here
@prewrathrapture333 ...No, I don't make "assumptions", I only deal in "hard facts". Rev.5:8-10 ia not "an assumption", but biblical evidence. I never said the 144,000 were sealed at the "mid-trib" point, I said they were "resurrected" at that point. It is their "removal" that allows the Antichrist to place "the abomination" in the temple. You have demonstrated that you do not understand either Mt.24:29, or Rev.6:12. I have challenged Any theologian in the World, to try refute my ....
@sorens70601 ive demonstrated that huh?u sound like an egotistical nut!give script that shows they are resurrected at midpoint.and that they are the restrainer.-dont write a book,just answer the question.
@prewrathrapture333 ...O.K. begin with Rev.12:1-6,(read this in the KJV, not some "modern fraud" called a Bible) You will find that the woman is National israel, and the "man child" is the 144,000. Here is the proof; Ezek 9:1-6 deals with the "sealing" of these 144,000. (the "sealing" is disrinctly separate from their "resurrection", so it represents a "two part Birth") the fact that the "man Child" is caught up to Heaven, without "growing up", or having "a ministry" of three and one half..
@sorens70601 and u say thats not assumption?isnt CHRIST THE ONE WHO RULES WITH THE ROD OF IRON?ISNT HE THE ONE WHO SITS AT THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND?-this is the weakest ive ever heard.thats enough,im done.ur wasting my time.ur ego wont let u see the truth anyway.good by mr false teacher.
@prewrathrapture333 ...Not only is Christ going to Rule with a Rod of Iron, but so are also all his saints. It seems you have not read th Bible through at all, just "Groping" at the few scriptures these "Rapture Guru's hav presented. What can I say, Your attitude, clearly indicates the validity of my assertions, and obviously, your
arrogance outweighs your common sense. Thank you, Mr. "know very little"
...years, is proof positive, that it cannot be Christ.(besides the time-line fact , that this happens in the "future" tribulation) Isa.66:7-8, gives us the details (read it!! Two birth stages) one, "before she travailed", she brought forth a "man child" (co-incidence ? I think not) (and it's the same woman as in Rev 12) Then i verse 8, as soon as her pain came, she "brought forth Her children"(plural, the 144,000) As I said, you know very little abou this subject. No I am not egotistical
...I am giving you scripture, Now go take the time to read and study it, in the light of the evidence I have given you. You falsely slander me as egotistical, that's an insult brother. I happen to have written an "irrefutable" treatise on the first resurrection, and several of my pastor friends have told me that there is not any theologian in the whole world, that can refute it. (which fact I already know) Back home in Missouri, we have a saying; "If a man can do it, It Ain't Braggin'.."
@Patriotsfan1975 ...I have given an explanation to the question about the 144,000 down below in my response to "Mr. Arrogant"-aka- "prewrathrapture333". Why it cannot be Christ, is simply the timeline of Rev.12. happens at the "mid-point" of teh 'future tribulation", as well as the fact, that this "man-child" does Not "grow up", and never has a "minisrtry" so to speak, as Christ did. The passage says "the dragon stood before the woman," (Israel) "for to devour her child as soon as it....
...was born". This was Not the case with Christ's birth. If you carefully study Isa.66:7-8, it will become clear to you that there are "two birth stages", in verse 7, "before she travailed, she brought forth, before her pain came, she was delivered of a man-child". (this refers to the "sealing" of teh 144,000, in Rev.7:1-8, as well as in Ezek.9:1-6) Then in verse 8, ( of Isa. 66) "...shall a nation be born at once ? for as 'soon as' Zion travailed, she brought forth her children"...
...(children ,plural, yet speaking of this same 'Man child" of the previous verse, verse 7) This refers to "the resurrection" of the 144,000, Rev.12:5, and then we find in Rev.14:1-4, the gathering of all three "firstfruit orders", without the mention of angels or the previously resurrected "Innumerable company" of Rev.7:9-17, and in fact Rev.14:4, declares the 144,000 as "firstfruits unto God, and the Lamb" Not only Christ will "rule with a rod of Iron", but so will the Church, Mt.19:28, ...
...Rom.8:17, 1.Cor.6:2, 2.Tim.2:12, Rev.1:5-6, Rev.2:27-28, Rev.5:10, Rev.22:4-5. Even the Old Testament saints will have this privelege, Jer.30:9, Ezek.37:24-25, Dan.7:18, 27, Hos.3:5, Mt.8:11-12. So the assumption by some, that the wording , "Rule with a rod of Iron", refers only to Christ, demonstrates their limited knowledge of the scriptures, indicating that they should refrain from imposing their limited knowledge, and should rather ask and learn, from those who know.
@sorens70601 Give me a few days to read.I will respond to it.Thanks for the response.On the 2 witnesses,My pastor thinks it is Moses.Heres why,They both could call on the plagues mentioned in the Bible where if I am correct,Enoch did not do.I agree with you on this though.
@Patriotsfan1975 ...Whereas it is true that Moses was instrumental in several 'judgments', such as the plagues on Egypt, and also the sons of Korah, the fact is , Mosed is dead, and Heb.9:27, "shut's the door" on that possibility. Is your pastor, the Gentleman on this video above here ? You might want to take a look at my website, just 'google', "Sorensen ministries". My book "None Dare Call It Deception", is a never before discussed treatise on the first resurrection and it's seven orders
@sorens70601 Isn't there a passage in the New TEstament though about Michael and the devil fighting over the body of Moses? What's that all about? And didn't Moses appear on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus? Do you think that was simply a vision that had an intended message or was it actually Moses?
@greenpilgrim50 ....Yes, in Jude,verse 9, that is mentioned. I am glad you asked this question, as modern theology does not want the to discuss this 'episode' .The reason for this "battle", was that the Bible declares that Moses was; "Learned in All the wisdom of Egypt".(Acts.7:22) What this means, (and this is why theologians do not want to discuss this, because they also "belong to the Club") is that Moses was a"Mason", as teh religion of 'Masonry' already existed at that time.(this is a ...
...religion, which God says he Hates, and you can read about it in Ezek.8) It has for the last several hundred years been under Jewish control,( by the Zionist's) and throught the Kabbala) and all educational "degree's" reflect the "masonic"control, by the "mortarboard" (at graduation) and three stripes on the "toga". So, because Moses was in a religion that "oposes" God, and worships "Lucifer", the Devil "assumed" he could have "claim" to Moses's body. (That's what 'masonry' is, "spitiual ...
...body snatchers", through this Satanic system) But the Devil had "forgotten", that "Moses chose to suffer with His people,rather than live in luxury in Egypt", as well as the fact that the scriptures make it clear, that Christ; "Was the Lamb slain, from the 'foundation' of the World",(Gr."Katabole", meaning the overthrow of the previous social system that existed before Adam) Therefore Moses was "saved" by the blood of Christ,a s the Bible attests to, that "they drank of that rock, and...
...that rock was Christ",(1.Cor.10:1-4) That is why Michael, (the Prince of the Jewish people,Dan.12) stood up aginst the Devil,Satan) and Michael "burried" Moses. (No 'Masonic rituals' allowed here) Every funeral parlour, anywhere in the World, is owned and or, Controlled by Masons's. God Hates this "world system", from which also will emmerge the Antichrist. It is this "Masonic System" that Jesus referred to in Mt.8:21-22, when he answered , "let the dead,(spiritual dead) bury the dead".
...As for the "Mount of trasfiguration" experience, and the appearance of Moses and Elijah, that was a real appearance, but must be understood in the light of scripture, which declares, that "it is apointed for Man , once to die, thereafter the Judgment. So Moses, having 'died', cannot come back as one of the two witnesses. But Enoch, the only 'other person', (other than Elijah) to have been removed alive from earth, will return to "do the judgments of Moses", so to speak. Hope this helps.
...treatise in a public debate with me (which so far, they are unwilling to engage in) I doubt that your education level on this issue, can even measure up to their "ankles". Sorry to be so harsh, but you have demonstrated the same "arrogance" of "dumbed down" American christianity. But thanks for the time anyway !!!
@sorens70601 I thought it would be Enoch as one of the two witnesses BUT,See the But part? How do you think its Enoch?What scriptures do you use .Please show me what you learned.
@Patriotsfan1975 .... You are correct, it is Enoch, and Elijah, That fulfill the persons of the "two witnesses". The scriptural passage that leads us to that conclusion, is the passage that says, "It is appointed for Man once to die, there after the judgment". Moses died and was buried by the ange, so he cannot return. The only two persons that have been taken from the Earth 'alive', were Enoch, and the prophet Elijah.
That seems to be the only possible outcome for this question.
Job 14:12-14 speaks of the time of the rapture with: "man lieth down, and riseth not: "till the heavens be no more". This correlates with the 6th seal of Revelation 6:14 where "the heaven departed as a scroll".
1) I am not SDA, but this doesn't mean they don't teach the historic, Protestant position on Bible prophecy. In fact, they are one of the only groups teaching historicism, and who oppose both preterism and futurism.
2) SDA's are Baptists, like myself.
3) I could never be SDA because they are Arminian in their soteriological views; whereas I am Reformed (Calvinist).
*Truly sad to see someone who can't argue their point, but would rather use 'ad hominem' attacks.
@rkg62976 no you know good and well i made my point -and SDA's are not baptist and not only are they arminian-but they are arian-i made my point with simple math as shown in the bible and you cant refute it-4 u 2 say that i'm not able to argue my point is a lie- and u still haven't answered the question on matt.how is the great trib contemporary with the abomination if the abomination was CHRIST and the desolation was in 70AD?ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@rkg62976 you know, if you say i haven't made my arguement,then YOU are the liar-i have steamrolled every point you made with the script and you know it-you cant answer my question on the chronology of the great trib because you know you are wrong and you are to proud to admit it-i more than did my job exposing your false doctrine and you know it-it was easy and i didnt have to go outside the bible one time to do it so if you wanna shrugg the question off-i understand-but you have nothing
@rkg62976 soteriological-are you trying to impress with your vast vocabulary-why cant you just say they are works righteous?that means the rely on their own works to save them-that means they are lost and going to hell-why would you take the teachings of uninspired GODLESS people who can't even grasp the concept of salvation?
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. -this is from SDA website
@rkg62976 John Calvin (1509-1564) “. . .we ought to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the church” (Institutes, Vol. 2, p. 411).
@rkg62976 John Knox (1515-1572) “. . . the great love of God towards his Church, whom he pleased to forewarne of dangers to come, so many years before they come to passe. . . to wit, The man of sin, The antichrist, The Whore of Babilon” (The Historie of the Reformatioun. . ., I, p. 76).
@rkg62976 John Wesley (1703-1791) “ „The stars shall . . . fall from heaven,‟ (Revelation, vi 13). . . And then shall be heard the universal shout. . . followed by the „voice of the archangel,‟ . . . „and the trumpet of God‟. . . (I Thessalonians iv. 16). (The Works of the rev. John Wesley, A.M., Vol. V, p. 173).
@rkg62976 Justin Martyr (100-168) “The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians. . .” (Dialogue With Trypho, 110)
@rkg62976 Irenaeus (140-202) “And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight” (Against Heresies, V, 26)
@rkg62976 Hippolytus (160-240) “. . .the one thousand two hundred and three score days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61)
@prewrathrapture333 ...What you have posted below, is nothinhg but other men's opinions, and do not mout to a "hill of beans". What the scriptures declare, is all that matters. And the scriptures declare the "pre-wrath" theory as faulty as the "pre-trib" theory, (and the Post, and mid -trib theory) Because they all fail to reckognize, that there are "several orders", to the first resurrection. My Book ; "None Dare Call It Deception", is the only Irrefutable, accurate, and biblically correct...
...treatise, on the first resurrection. My Name is Morgan Sorensen, you can find me on the web, just google my name, and my website will come up. I am sure Dr. Steve Hereford is a sincere and honorable man, who wants to teach the truth, but on this issue, he is 'sincerely wrong'. Have him contact me !! I am a missionary/ Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry since 1963. I have the answer to the "rapture dillema". Please, Dr. Hereford, get in touch with me !!!
@sorens70601 i dont deny that there are orders to the ressurection,neither does pastor sawyer,therefore,your accusation is faulty.and as for pre tribs,they use the order of ressurection to explain why there are trib saints in rev 20 that have taken part in the 1st resurrection.so i know good and well u dont even have a clue about their position either.keep ur book to ur self.i didnt post this so u could sell a book.u dont seem to have enough knowledge to teach in the 1st place.
@sorens70601 -also,im well aware that my posts are other mens opinions,thats why i posted their names next to them.im pretty sure that if u read all of the post,ull see that i was making a point to a pretriber that the early church leaders did not believe in a pretrib rapture.if someone quotes ur book,that too will be a man's opinion.at 1st i thought this comment page went to my prewrath vid.as u can see,ur responding to a 7 month old post-i had to refresh myself.btw-u come off as pompous.
@prewrathrapture333 ...There is nothing in my posting , that is either "pompous" or "accusative", other than pointing out that "pre-wreath" is a faulty teaching , that I for one, can "obliterate" with scriptural facts. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated an arrogant pompous attitude, and obvious lack of judgment.
@sorens70601 i looked at ur website.on the 1st paragraph on ur home page ur wrong about the tribulation lasting 7 years.if u cant get something as simple as that right,why should i read ur book?why should anyone?
@prewrathrapture333 ...Well, let us look at the scriptural facts. Dan.9:24-27, begins with ; "Seventy years are determined upon thy people, and the Holy City "... and continues to declare "seven" weeks to restore Jerusalem,
and a further "sixty two weeks,(of years) to be completed",(for a total of 69 weeks) and "AFTER" 69 weeks, the Messiah was to be "Cut off". That leaves but "one full week",(after A.D.31) that was postponed, and "to
...declares that "He", (the Prince that shall come, the Antichrist) will "Confirm the covenant, for ONE Week".
(That is seven years) the first half of that period of seven years, is called "the beginning of sorrows". When we come to the exact mid-point of those seven years, that part of Dan.9:27, which declares; "And in the midst of the week, 'He' (the Antichrist) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". From this point on, the last half of the seven years,(1260 days) ...
...are called "Jacobs trouble", and or , "the Great tribulation". But all this is inclusive in that Last "postponed week", of seven years, as clearly laid out in Dan.9:27. If you have any scriptures that refute that , then I would like to know about it. Because I have been overseas for 23 years, I am mostly "un-known" in Christian circles back home here in the U.S. But in certain Christian circles overseas, I am regarded as one of the foremost teachers of eschatology in the World today...
....I am sorry to have to "toot my own horn", but I don't know what it is going to take, for what I see as mostly "arrogant" Christian leadership, to recognize Me , as well as My never before discussed treatise on the "first resurrection and it's seven different orders". It makes all these "four theories", (Pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, and van Kampens Pre-wrath) Obsolete !!! As it centers around the feasts , and Paul's resurrection "outline" in 1.Cor15:23. (first Christ, then the ....
...'Firstfruits",(plural, as there are three separate orders of those), the "four living creatures"(the graves that opened Mt.27:52-53, rev 4 and 5) the "24 Elders",(Rev 4:1-6) and the "144,000" (which are only resurrected at the "mid-point" of the seven year tribulation) Only AFTER This; "They that are Christ's, at HIS COMING". Furthermore, the Pre-wrath Idea, that the "seven Vials", (Bowls) take place "after the "seven Trumpets", Is refuted by Rev.10:5-7, which indicates 'NO MORE ...
....WRATH', (or tribulation) possible, in the days of the "Seventh Trumpet", as the "Mystery of God is FINISHED" That means, " it's over with " , NOW BEGINS THE TIME OF "THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS". Any variance with these scriptural facts, becomes ERROR . If you can get me in touch with this preacher on this video, I can help him understand the scriptures. I am saddened by the "professional Arrogance" amongst Christian ministers back her in the U.S, as well as their lack of knowledge.
@sorens70601 i agree with everything you said except that the 144000 are sealed in the middle of the 7 years.as u see in mat24:29,the sun is darkenedAFTER the tribulation of those days.at that point on,the 7years is over and the church is raptured and the jews sealed,as soon as we see CHRIST comming in the clouds.then after this begins the wrath of GOD/time of restitution(trumps/viles)...
The Jews, and nearly all ancient middle-eastern peoples, used a 30 day lunar MONTHLY CALENDAR. I have never said otherwise. However, the peoples that used a lunar monthly calendar NEVER used a 360 day YEARLY CALENDAR! They all had various ways of reconciling the 365.25 day solar year with the 30 day monthly lunar calendar.
.
*See G.L.Archer's discussion of this in the Expositor's Bible Commentary, vol.7, pp.114-115.
@rkg62976 G.L.archer was wrong according to GOD as shown in rev 11 and 12-1260/360=3.5 no mater what each unit represent-rather it's day=year or day=mellinium-in order for 1260 days to = 3.5 years,only a 360 day year could balance the eqution-lets try it with a 365 day year:1260/365=3.452054795-so maybe youre right AND GOD'S MATH IS OFF-MAYBE YOU SHOULD CORRECT THE BIBLE AND STICK G.L.ARCHER'S STUDY NOTE IN PLACE OF REV11:2-3 AND REV12:6&14-YOU ARE REFUTED-NOW GIVE IT UP!
@rkg62976 btw-wut point would GOD have in using a lunar calendar to describe how long Noah was in the ark and to describe how long the woman would be in the wilderness-but He sees fit for some reason to change to a 365.24 day calendar to give us his prophesies?and if you are a baptist,why do you have SDA false teachings on your youtube channel-and wut does your pastor think of the SDA church?WHY DO YOU ALWAYS POINT TO MAN FOR YOUR BIBLE DOCTRINE AND I ALWAYS POINT TO THE BIBLE?
@rkg62976 i dont think you backed up ONE point you made with script-you always go to some MAN'S comentery-i have gone to the scripts every time!YOU QUOTE MAN-I QUOTE GOD-I BELIEVE THE BIBLE-YOU BELIEVE COMENTARY-YOU CALL JESUS AN ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE,I CALL HIM THE LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH,HOLY HOLY HOLY YHWH GOD,THE ANCIENT OF DAYS-FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING-LORD GOD ALMIGHTY-wut do the SDA's call him? you have their false teachings all over your channel-who do they say he is?
@rkg62976btw there is only one church father and that is GOD-you have no proof that i would be refuted by any of the reformers-but one thing i know they would refute NO DOUBT is your esv false bible per-version-do you realize that many of these men(including tyndale)were burned at the stake with the textus receptus tied to their faces?i cant think of one person who was martyred for the alexandrian text-can you?
@rkg62976 Martin Luther (1483-1546) “[The book of Revelation] is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the Church. . .” (Works of Martin Luther, VI, p. 481).
So sad to see Calvinists falling for the false prophetic interpretation of dispensational futurism. The 70th week of Dan.9:27 has absolutely nothing to do with antichrist. The whole prophecy (Dan.9:24-27) is Messianic in nature. "He will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease...", is referring to the work of Christ on the cross, not the work of antichrist. There is no "gap" between the 69th and 70th weeks, it was a continual prophecy with no gaps intimated in the text.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS he shall make it desolate, even until the CONSUMATION, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. -so i guess the abomination part has nothing to do with antichrist?and i suppose the marriage supper has already occurred "consumation"?
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.9:27 "the abomination of desolation" is speaking of the temple destruction by Titus in 70 A.D. This prophecy has absolutely nothing to do with Antichrist. Second, the desolation of the temple would be a reality UNTIL the consumation (the 2nd Advent). Therefore, no rebuilt temple will ever be of any significance, as Christ is the perfect temple.
@rkg62976 Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be-has that happened yet?was the destruction of the temple greater than ww2 or several othe events that i could list?then the abomination spoken of in Mat 24:15 could NOT be titus now could it?and becaus CHRIST is the perfect temple.does NOT mean that another will not be built-that is an assumption-not in scripture
@rkg62976 alos remember the question that was asked of JESUS by his apostles at the begining of the chapter-remember this statement is an answer to that question Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
if JESU is claiming that the coming of titus was a sign of the end-he would have been lying and that is something God can't do
@prewrathrapture333 Mt.24:3 "..when shall these things be [the temple destruction, which happened in 70 A.D *See v.2]...and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age) [referring to Jesus' 2nd Advent].
*Again, dispensational futurists read the WHOLE chapter of Mt.24 as only having relevance during a 7-yr. period of tribulation. Partial preterists believe the WHOLE passage to be only speaking of the 70 A.D. temple destruction.
@rkg62976 no they are not BOTH flawed-think for a sec about my point-Mat 24:21 For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor EVER shall be.FOR THEN?WHEN?refer back to Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) the great trib will not happen until the A.O.D.stands in holy place-this did not yet happen
@rkg62976 you calling me a liar shows that you dont believe the hply ghost can reveal something to a person thru script-all i needed was info on the internet knowing the date of the comand to restore jerusalem-anybody who reads the bible knows about artaxerxies and nehemiah-then i did some very basic math-nothing enourmous about it-then i looked up some info on the reign of tiberius and used luke as a guide to tell me when messiah was "cut-off"-wut's so complex about that?
@prewrathrapture333 "you calling me a liar shows that you dont believe the hply ghost can reveal something to a person thru script-all i needed was info on the internet knowing the date of the comand to restore jerusalem"
This shows that the Holy Spirit did NOT reveal this to you. An "internet search" does not proper Biblical exegesis make.
Your view of the 70th week being separated from the 69 weeks is the most popular today, and is also an erroneous interpretation of Dan.9:24-27.
@rkg62976 did anderson need to read a book?no and it was easy to find the dates i needed because of the internet-anderson didnt have that.youre worried about dishonering men by not going along with their misinterpretations-but you dishonor God by misinterpreting his word in order to honor men-this lets me know you are a man pleaser-and no you havent answered me on matt.the question is if the abomination was fulfilled in 70A.D.,then why is the great trib shown to begin AT THAT TIME?
@prewrathrapture333 Once again, Mt.24:15,21 is talking about the temple destruction in 70 A.D., when upwards of 1 million Jews were killed.
You begin the 70 weeks with 445 B.C. So, then, just add 483 yrs. (the Jews used a SOLAR yearly calendar, just like everyone else in the ancient mid-east) and you come to 38/39 A.D., which is way too late for the crucifixion. Your math does not add up, that's why you have to falsely claim the Jews used a 360 day year.
@rkg62976 and if the abomination occurred in 70AD,what is dan 9:26 talking about?the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. -this is the event of 70 AD prophesied by daniel and occurs in the 69th week-the abomination of the 70th week is a diff event-btw,i'm not a protestant-i'm a baptist-the protestants are still carrying around old catholic doctrine
@prewrathrapture333 "btw,i'm not a protestant-i'm a baptist-the protestants are still carrying around old catholic doctrine"
*I am a Baptist as well, but apparently you have never read the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which is a thoroughly Protestant confession following after what Martin Luther began, and what the Reformers in Geneva and England continued.
And your dispensational futurism they would have refuted.
@rkg62976 once again yet another statement with no facts to support it-but anyway,another peice of BIBLICAL evidence for a 360 day calendar is found in gen7&8-it plainly states that 150 days =5 months showing that a biblical month=30 days-but i guess you'll refute that with yet another unbiblical and factually unsupported statement-also,even if the day units in revelation are representations of day=year-how does it change the fact that 1260day"units if you will are still =to 42 months?
@rkg62976 you see, 1260%360=3.5 & 42%3.5=12 no matter what each day represents so you are REFUTED once again-now repent and admit youre wrong and tell me that you will never teach this false teaching again!
@prewrathrapture333 Not only this, but dispensational futurists cut off the 70th week from the 69th, and then throw it some 2,000 yrs. into the future (the "gap" theory). This is not only unbiblical, but illogical. If the 70th week does not follow directly after the 69th week, can it logically be called the 70th week? Of course not. This is one of the major false prophecies of the end times, and we're seeing it unfold right before our very eyes.
@rkg62976 Jesus was crucified in 32 ad-refer to the reign of tiberius in luke chpt 3 as a marker of the year that JESUS began his ministry-titus came in 70 ad so how can you say that your version of the 70th week follows directly after the 69th?-look,i dont break fellowship over things like this-we are brothers so lets watch how we talk infront of the lost people reading this and be a good testimony for them-i enjoy reasoning scripts with you
@prewrathrapture333 The 490 yr. time prophecy of Dan.9:24-27 has nothing to do with the temple destruction in 70 A.D. Rather, the temple destruction was only the consequence of the rejection of Messiah by corporate Israel.
70th week: Jesus fulfills the first half with His 3.5 yr. ministry. The apostles' preached mainly to the Jews for the latter half of the 70th week (3.5 yrs.). The 490 yrs. ended with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. Gospel goes out to the world.
@rkg62976 your interpretation of the 70weeks is not possible-when is the prophecy to begin?dan9:25-from the going forth of the comandment to restore and build jerusalem.when did this happen on solar calendar?445b.c.-refer to nehemiah2:1-6when was messiah cut-off(crucified)?after 7weeks and 62 weeks=69wks.69x7=483jew yrs-convert to solar yrs:483yrsx360dys=173880dys%365.25solar yrs=476solar yrs-445bc-476yrs=31+add 1 yr because there is no yr0=32ad-THE EXACT DAY CHRIST WENT TO CROSS
@prewrathrapture333 Dispensationalists begin the 490 yr. prophecy from the wrong date and decree from Artaxerxes. The correct starting point is with his first decree beginning in 457 B.C. (Ezra 7). Add 483 yrs. to this date and one comes to the very date of Jesus' baptism (27 A.D.).
*To assert that the Jews, or any other middle-eastern people, used a lunar yearly calendar, would be erroneous. They used a lunar MONTHLY calendar, but all had ways of reconciling this to a 365.25 day solar yr
@rkg62976@rkg62976 so u go to a false alexanderan text to make your point-"as soon as i dont like what this bible says,i just go to another one till i find one that makes MY point" is that how that works?luke 3 clears the debate on JESUS baptism-refer to reign of tiberius-research and you'll find JESUS was baptised in 28a.d
@prewrathrapture333 If you wish to assert that Jesus was baptized in 28 A.D., that's fine. But my point is that Jesus' baptism began the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.
The 445 B.C. date does not add up: 483 yrs. from 445 B.C.=38/39 A.D., which is way too late for the crucifixion. I have already told you that Anderson's theory that the Jews used a 360 day yearly calendar is fallacious, as all ancient people's from the mid-east used a 365.25 day year.
@rkg62976 Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
now let me ask you,what is 1260%360?hmmm-it comes out to exactly 3.5-a time,times and half a time
@prewrathrapture333 The 1,260 day time prophecies, given seven times in the Bible (twice in Daniel, and five times in the book of Revelation) are all DAY=YEAR. This is the historic, Protestant view of the 1,260 days/years. Both dispensational futurists, and partial preterists completely abandon what the Reformers taught concerning the day=year principle.
Both systems teach a false eschatological interpretation.
@rkg62976 do you want another referance?Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth-you do the math on this one-as for my tone-it is fine-you cant refute what i say so you attack how i say it-typical
@prewrathrapture333 I have already referenced the seven places in the Scriptures that reveal the 1,260 days. And as I've stated, they are ALL to be read as DAY=YEAR. Yes, the "little horn" (Dan.7) and the "sea beast" (Rev.13:1-10) reigns for 1,260 years (this is the antichrist). The "woman in the wilderness" (Rev.12) is nourished for 1,260 years. The "two witnesses" (Rev.11) prophesy for 1,260 years, during the antichrist's reign.
@prewrathrapture333 "...forty two months, reckoning A DAY FOR A YEAR, after the prophetic style, make 1260 YEARS; which is the exact time of the witnesses prophesying in sackcloth [Rev.11], of the church's being hid and nourished in the wilderness [Rev.12], and of the beast's reign [Rev.13:1-10], and so of the holy city being trodden under foot."
[John Gill (1748), Exposition on the Whole Bible, Rev.11:2]
@rkg62976 so you say the beast reigns for 1260 years?when does all this start and end?and as for the woman in rev12-this is israel-refer to gen37:9-11,she brought forth the man child-israel referenced thru out bible as woman in travail(Is26:7)satan makes war with remenant of seed wich have testimony of Christ-the Church didnt bring forth the man child-Israel did the day/ year is used in the making of prophecy not the fulfilment why should they all be read as day=year?
@prewrathrapture333 Rev.12:1-5 is talking about the Israel of the O.T. (which included gentiles, by the way). And vs. 6-17 is talking about the spiritual Israel of the New Covenant (the church). Notice that the church is the same "woman" as vs. 1-5. This refutes the idea that God has two groups of people: the church and the modern nation-state of Israel.
*Sorry, but it's not possible to answer ALL of your questions in this short post.
@rkg62976 no-you see,your not refuting anythin-your just stating it-just making the declaration that the woman is the church doesnt refute a thing i said-now i will refute you again on this subject-mat 24:16 is a parellel to the woman being brought into the wilderness in rev12 notice satans wrath is what prompts this to happen look at dan 11:45 and dan12-same event of satans wrath,notice she is given the wings of an eagle-sound familiar?look at ex19:4
@rkg62976 God promises that he would do this for Israel all thru the O.T.:hos2:14 jer 31:2 she is promised by God that she will be saved from the persecution of satan rev12:15-16refer to IS59:19;43:2 and where do you think the 144,00 in rev7 are when they are sealed?in the wilderness where God brought them to escape antichrist persecution when he comes in the clouds and every eye sees him-so will israel and thus the fulfillment of zech12:10-now THAT is how you refute a false doctrine
@rkg62976 i dont care what adam clark says anymore than what benny hinn or paul crouch might say-stay in the scriptures and read them as they are naturally writen and u can't go wrong-i notice that most people who are confussed on this stuff have their noses in other peoples commentaries all the time.a commentary is like eating someone elses chewed food-get in the bible and TASTE that the LORD is good-i didnt know who anderson was b4 u told me-i figured dan's 70 weeks on holy ghost power-try it!
*Adam Clarke's commentary is revered by many scholars. Even C.H. Spurgeon recommended it (although Clarke was an Arminian).
You said: "...i didnt know who anderson was b4 u told me-i figured dan's 70 weeks on holy ghost power-try it!"
*Your erroneous math regarding the 70 weeks shows that you have read some works on the subject, therefore, you are lying when you said, "i figured [it out] on holy ghost power".
@rkg62976 stop dodging my question about the great tribulation following the abomination in matthew 24-and dont just state that i'm wrong-reason with me from the scripts-go ahead and pull out every commentary you got if you want-but you have dodged this question about 3 or 4 times-
@prewrathrapture333 I have answered the question about Mt.24 a couple times now. Half the chapter is speaking about the temple destruction in 70 A.D., which some scholars have commented involved the death of upwards of 1 million Jews. The other half is speaking of the events leading up to the 2nd Advent of Christ.
@prewrathrapture333 Notice what Adam Clarke's Commentary says about the time of the "sea beast's" (Rev.13:5) reign:
"...As these forty-two months are prophetic, they must mean so many years as there are days...The beast, therefore, will continue in existence at least 1260 years..."
[Adam Clarke (d.1832). Commentary on the whole Bible, Rev.13:5]
@rkg62976 i see your problem is reading commentary and not the bible-how foolish to call the woman of rev12 the church-no biblical basis at all-infact quite the contrary-adam clark reasoning does not work-Jesus prophesied he would be 3 days in the heart of the earth-did he mean 3 years?and the beast is a man and constantly refered to as a man and is thrown in the lake of fire with the false prophet who is also a man
@prewrathrapture333 "Jesus prophesied he would be 3 days in the heart of the earth-did he mean 3 years?"
The problem with your argument is that Jesus was using a prophecy from the O.T. (namely, the prophet Jonah) to explain His own death, burial, and resurrection. Therefore, the day=year principle does not apply.
And generally, the day=year principle only applies to the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelation.
@prewrathrapture333 It is not "foolish" to call the "woman in the wilderness" (Rev.12:6-17) the church. In fact, this has been the proper interpretation of this passage throughout many centuries of Christian thought and writing.
It is only futurists who twist this passage to make the whole thing refer to only the fleshly descendants of Israel.
The commentaries provided by Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, John Gill...etc. are very useful in understanding Protestant hermeneutics.
@rkg62976 also reguarding "the woman"look in rev12:17-the dragon was usuccesful in persecuting the woman-so he targets the remnant of her seed-who is this?well,the woman was israel,Christ was her seed(rev12:1-5 and gen3:15)and when Christ went to heaven, he left a remnant wich is the church-notice they have the testimony of Jesus Christ-i didnt twist anything up and i provided script to make my case-NO COMMENTARY NEEDED
@prewrathrapture333 Rev.12:17. Yes, the dragon (Satan) persecutes the "woman" (the true Israel, which is the church). The "remnant of her seed" refers to all believers in Christian history.
And the reason I provide commentary quotations is so everyone can see that the dispnesational futurist interpretation of the 1,260 days as a literal 3.5 years is not in line with historic Protestantism.
To completely disregard what our forefathers taught is to dishonor their memory.
@rkg62976 but you still have not answered a point i brought up a while back-Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 70 a.d. does not fulfill this even and neither has any event since
@prewrathrapture333 I thought you wanted to have a civilized, Christian discussion. Your tone is now becoming disrespectful, and is completely off-topic. Even my KJV Bible has a note in the margin for Dan.9:24 ("to seal up the vision and prophecy"), and the note says "prophet".
Your arguments are no longer sound. You have been refuted. And you are now simply getting frustrated. I suggest you do some more homework.
@rkg62976 SO HOW COULD CHRIST'S MINISTRY FULFILL THE FIRST 3.5 YRS OF 70TH WEEK IF IT ENDED IN THE 69TH WEEK?AND ALSO HOW DOES THE STONING OF STEVEN FULFILL VS.27?AND IF THIS PROPHECY IS LITERAL ALL THE WAY THRU THE 69TH WEEK,WHY WOULD THE 70TH NOT BE?-YOU ADMITTED CONSUMATION WAS @ND ADVENT-THIS IS PART OF THE PROPHECY AND THIS HAS CERTAINLY NOT BEEN FULFILLED-AND DOES IT EVER CROSSED UR MIND WHY REVELATION IS DIVIDED INTO TWO 3.5 TIME PERIODS?
@prewrathrapture333 The 69th week (483rd yr.) ended with the baptism of Jesus; the 70th week thus began with Jesus' earthly ministry. 3.5 yrs. into His ministry He was "cut off" ("in the midst of the WEEK"-- that is, the 70th week). The stoning of Stephen fulfilled Dan.9:24 "to seal up the vision and prophet" (the ESV says "prophet", which is the most accurate rendering of the text).
The 1,260 day time prophecies given in Dan.7:25,12:7; Rev.11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5--are NOT speaking of days.
@rkg62976 FUNNY THAT U SAY HE WAS "CUT-OFF"IN THE 70TH WEEK WHEN DAN9:26 STATES CLEARLY THAT HE IS CUT-OFF IN THE 69TH WEEK AND I NEVER SAID THAT THOSE PROPHECYS WERE SPEAKING IN TERMS OF DAYS-I UNDERSTAND THE DAY YEAR FORMULA SPOKEN OF IN EZE4-AND I WOULDNT GIVE 2CENTS FOR THE RENDERING OF THE ESV OR ANY OTHER ALEXANDRIAN WESTCOTT AND HORT PERVERSION-IF U WANT TO GO BY THE ALEXANDRIAN RENDERING OF THE BIBLE,THEN U WOULD HAVE TO THROW THE BOOK OF REV AWAY BECAUSE ITS NOT FOUND IN THOSE TEXT
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.9:26 "..after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off.." (ESV). Nowhere in the text does it say that Messiah would be cut off during, or at the close of the 69 weeks. You are reading into the text your own presuppositions, a classic case of eisegesis. Dan.9:27 states "...for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.." This Jesus did by His sacrifice, as noted by the antecedent in verse 26.
@rkg62976 YOU ARE GOING ON PURE ASSUMPTION THAT THE LAST WEEK OF DAN COULD NOT OCCUR IN THE LAST DAYS-NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE IS IT SAID THAT IT CANT BE DONE!Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. is this passage refering to the crucified CHRIST?would JESUS refer to himself as an abomination?nothing of wut u say is scriptural
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.11:31 is speaking of a completely different prophetic time period than Dan.9:24-27. Don't confuse the two.
In Mt.24:15, Jesus is speaking of the temple destruction in 70 A.D. As I have stated three times now, Jesus is answering two questions throughout Mt.24: 1) When shall these things be? (the temple destruction), and 2) What shall be the sign of your coming? (the 2nd Advent).
@rkg62976 btw-i don't want this to get too nasty so i just wanted to say that this has been an awesome debate and you are a worthy opponent-i don't agree with what ur saying but i apreciate ur passion and ur studious attitude toward the bible-even though i disagree with your choice in versions :)
@rkg62976 WHY IS THE GREAT TRIB SAID TO OCCURR AT SAME TIME AS ABOMINATION AND IMEDIATELY AFTER GREAT TRIB, SON OF MAN COMES WITH THE CLOUDS-IF 70 AD WAS ABOMINATION-ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE-THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE BEEN RAPTURED BY NOW!!!SIMPLE QUESTION
@rkg62976for you to keep saying that 1 mill jews were killed in 70 AD still doesnt constiute a time of trouble that the world has not yet seen-6mill died in ww2-the bible saysAT THAT TIME-refering back to abomination-will be a time of trouble...
@rkg62976 so i guess the Holy ghost couldnt prompt me to go search out the dates of the reign of tiberius and artaxerxies-fine,you wanna solf,then scolf-i guess going to the writings of ex catholics IS proper exogesis-your getting your intire doctrine based on wut they said,i atleast did the work myself and you are so blind to see that the numbers in these prophecies using these methods all just happen to work out-now STOP DODGING MY QUESTION ON MATT
One MAJOR ERROR amongst many christians is this, the idea that Jesus Chrsit is going to "Rapture the church. He is going to gather his elect, his chossen ones. The Gospel of LUKE tells us this... [34] I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. [35] Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."
I'm Charismatic so I like to speak in tongues : "badda basonda bodda basoida badda basonda, boo roo ku sabba da dee" just kidding. I hate Charismatics and their pathetic doctrine
@disciplesofthecross - well, if YOU really knew Jehovah Elohim and the Bible you would know that speaking in tongues is NOT a jibberish/glossolalia language. Just read Acts 2 and the text itself says they heard them speaking in their own language. They weren't going "bodda basonda bodda basoida bodda basanda"
@pittedthighs If I recall correctly, 'Tongues' is actually a quick utterance of many languages. The gift, therein, is being able to speak to someone in a language you normally wouldn't be able to speak in. I may be wrong though. I'm a bit weak in the area of 'Tongues', but I do know that, to this day, it's still valid.
@pittedthighs I sincerely hope that you're not a christian saying those things. Remember what is taught to us in Ephesians 4:2 "Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love."
@Pzykowulf did you just say that you hope@pittedthighs is not a christian?what kinda statement is that?i hope he is a christian and if not i hope he will be soon!
@THOUARTAMAZINGGOD Indeed, we praise the Lord in all things; however, if you read in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This is written in context that we're not appointed for wrath; thus, we're not appointed to endure the tribulation, because we've been faithful up to that point. Tribulation is for the non-believers, not the believers.
We see the church in Heaven in Revelation 4 if youw ant to read it.
Why is it that people keep teaching Christ's return after a 7 year tribulation? Many teach the signs as way out there in the future...WHY??? These signs have been happening for years. Christ's return is imminent, but it is NOT pre-tribulation. We are in tribulation. GOD doesn't work according to an outline. HE works on HIS own time. Many will be caught off guard because they think they have GOD figured out. JUST BE READY!!!!
many will be cought of gaurd becouse they think they will not go through tribulation, do you see any churches boycotting the verichip company,the only technology on earth to implament a mark that can dictate whether or not you buy and sell.?
Are you assuming that a verichip mark is the mark of the beast? Why focus on an element like this when the most important thing is to WATCH AND PRAY. The churches are the first to be deceived because they have apotasized and are under to rule of Satan and his minions.
that IS part of the aposticy, not doing anything agaisnt these corperations who are clearly not for our benefit. and no im not assuming i know that they are the only ones at this present age that have the technology AND have ben pushing for people to get chipped, 200 people have ben chipped so far becouse they pushed it on there employees and the elderly.
Just my opinion, but that is describing the Saints of the Tribulation (those who become new believers in Christ during the Tribulation and are killed). I think the Rapture will most likely be pre-trib.
Hi friend - it is my understanding that there will not be a great revival - rather men wil repent not of their idols (Rev 9) and will beome more hostile towards God. The sainte being discussed are you and me and those living at the time of the tribulation. Pre trib frankly has no biblical support. But GOD bless you - stay close to Jesus in these last days Friend.
this preacher forgot to mention after the signs then Jesus returned so christians, believers, the elect, the saints will go through the great tribulation. immediatelly after
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The rapture and Jesus second coming, are two separate prophetic events!
It doesn't matter what people think, and what they say! Nothing is going to change Gods plan. Heb. 6:18
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. That says at all! Amen. Praise the Lord.
The great tribulation... is the wrath of God! No question about it.
paulojose1955 4 months ago
also,i think to include the 4 beast and elders as resurrections is an assumption.nowhere does it say these guys have been resurrected.especially the 4 creatures-they're angels-not redeemed beings.as far as the elders,they could have been those resurrected in mat27.i think its a mistake to assume they are anyone in particular,actually,because the bible just doesnt come right out and tell us....thats enough for tonight.i have a lil more,but i think we have enough to discuss at this point.
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...Let me respond to the last part of your comment , first. The "4 beasts" are "a numbered company",(folllowing the scriptural outline in exodus, on firstfruits) and "testify', together with the "24 Elders" in Rev.5:8-10, that they are "redeemed from every tribe ,tongue, nation and people". So that should settle that issue. The "24 Elders", is the "firstfruit order" to take place "just before the "man of sin be revealed".(they are the "hinderer", mentioned in 2.Thess.2:7)
sorens70601 8 months ago
....the "He" of 2.thess.2:7, is Not the Holy Spirit, as so many erroneously think, but this "firstfruit' order of the "24 Elders". The church is called the "Body of Christ",(a masculine body, not a female body such as "a bride", which is the New Jerusalem) We are to grow to full stature "of Man" in Christ, etc. etc. It is this "restraining power", that is also exhibited in the 144,000, (God's modus operandi) that pinpoints the time-line for the "sealing" and thereafter "resurrection" of the...
sorens70601 8 months ago
...144,000. Their "resurrection" takes place at the exact "mid-point" of the seven years, after which the Antichrist steps on the scene, for his "alotted" 1260 days, of the 'Great tribulation'. (at which time also the "two witnesses" Enoch and Elijah, will minister. It is in this "last half" of the "7 year covenant",(Dan.9:27) that the tribulation martyrs will be killed, as well as the fact that this is the time-line, of which Jesus referred to as "being shortened",(or no flesh would be saved)
sorens70601 8 months ago
...The "shortened days", are discussed in Daniel, and total 110 days, then the simultaneous sevent Vial/Trumpet, which brings about the Battle of Armageddon,(Rev.14:17-20, preceeded by the "harvest of the Earth", Rev.14:14-16) As for the 144,000, they are "pictured in Heaven" in Rev.14:1-4, with the other two
" firstfruit orders"(the "4 Beasts", and the "24 Elders") and the 144,000, are speciffically mentioned to be the "firstfruits to God and the Lamb". (notice that no angels are mentioned..
sorens70601 8 months ago
...here, as in Rev. 4:1-6. This is an All "firstfruit gathering". As for the timing of the resurrection of the "main Harvest" of the earth,(as well as the Martyrs, which must include the two witnesses, and every last martyr) Jesus aid in Jn.6:39,40, 44,54, and also Jn.17, (five times) "I will raise him on the LAST DAY". What this refers to, is the fact that there are only "two ages" discussed in scripture. Jesus refered to them as, "this present Evil age" and "the age to come". The "last ...
sorens70601 8 months ago
....day" spoken in Jn.6:39,40,44,54, Refers to this "present evil age". The "age to come" refers to the "Millenium".
The "restitution of all things", (spoken of in Acts.3:20-21) cannot begin untill the battle of Armageddon is complete. (all these facts oppose the pre-wrath theory) The tribulation period, is Not the wrath of God, as so many surmise. The Wrath of God, only begins, with the "pouring out" of the seven Vials, and the seven Trumpets. Notice the "correct order" in which I have ....
sorens70601 8 months ago
...placed them. All teachin today, erroneously place the Trumpets "before" the Vials. This is incorrect, as Rev.10:5-7, makes it clear, that the seventh Trumpet, is the "final" judgment, that "ends the tribulation" and completes the "mystery of God, given to his prophets". If you read Rev.8:2, you read about the seven angels given the seven Trumpets, but before they go out of teh hevenly Temple,(verse 6) we still find them in Rev. 15:1, and here the seven Trumpets, are called the seven "last...
sorens70601 8 months ago
....plagues". (just bear with me for a moment) Then in 15:5-6 we first Now, find the seven angels coming "out of the Temple", and it says in verse 6, (already) "Having the seven plagues"(the seven Trumpets) Then in verse 7,
they are given (an additional) "seven golden Vials". If you study these judgments, you will discover, that the sixth Vial, and sixth Trumpet have the same result. this is a "one time" event. The same is evident in the second
Vial/Trump, and third Vial/Trump etc. etc..
sorens70601 8 months ago
....my point being, that the prevailing "school of thought" is incorrect, especially in light of the fact, that Rev.10:5-7
categorically "refutes" any judgment to take place "after" the seventh Trumpet. I realize that it is impossible in these short illustrations given, to have you understand the complex nature of the "first resurrection and it's Seven different and distinct orders". What I present, has NEVER BEFORE, been discussed in theology, and it is time I get a Platform. Thanks
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 thats all a bunch of assumption.no better than the pretribbers.just another theory that u cant bang the desk on.u assume the 4 beasts are testifying with the elders and so on.and ur time line for the sealing cant be the mid point of trib.the midpoint is when we see the abomination(mat24:15),the 144000 are sealed after the sun/moon(rev6:12;mat24:29)-this is well after the midpoint of trib.i tried to keep my comment short so we can have an exchange,im not gona answer half ur book here
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...No, I don't make "assumptions", I only deal in "hard facts". Rev.5:8-10 ia not "an assumption", but biblical evidence. I never said the 144,000 were sealed at the "mid-trib" point, I said they were "resurrected" at that point. It is their "removal" that allows the Antichrist to place "the abomination" in the temple. You have demonstrated that you do not understand either Mt.24:29, or Rev.6:12. I have challenged Any theologian in the World, to try refute my ....
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 ive demonstrated that huh?u sound like an egotistical nut!give script that shows they are resurrected at midpoint.and that they are the restrainer.-dont write a book,just answer the question.
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...O.K. begin with Rev.12:1-6,(read this in the KJV, not some "modern fraud" called a Bible) You will find that the woman is National israel, and the "man child" is the 144,000. Here is the proof; Ezek 9:1-6 deals with the "sealing" of these 144,000. (the "sealing" is disrinctly separate from their "resurrection", so it represents a "two part Birth") the fact that the "man Child" is caught up to Heaven, without "growing up", or having "a ministry" of three and one half..
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 and u say thats not assumption?isnt CHRIST THE ONE WHO RULES WITH THE ROD OF IRON?ISNT HE THE ONE WHO SITS AT THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND?-this is the weakest ive ever heard.thats enough,im done.ur wasting my time.ur ego wont let u see the truth anyway.good by mr false teacher.
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...Not only is Christ going to Rule with a Rod of Iron, but so are also all his saints. It seems you have not read th Bible through at all, just "Groping" at the few scriptures these "Rapture Guru's hav presented. What can I say, Your attitude, clearly indicates the validity of my assertions, and obviously, your
arrogance outweighs your common sense. Thank you, Mr. "know very little"
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 ha ha take it easy!
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
...years, is proof positive, that it cannot be Christ.(besides the time-line fact , that this happens in the "future" tribulation) Isa.66:7-8, gives us the details (read it!! Two birth stages) one, "before she travailed", she brought forth a "man child" (co-incidence ? I think not) (and it's the same woman as in Rev 12) Then i verse 8, as soon as her pain came, she "brought forth Her children"(plural, the 144,000) As I said, you know very little abou this subject. No I am not egotistical
sorens70601 8 months ago
...I am giving you scripture, Now go take the time to read and study it, in the light of the evidence I have given you. You falsely slander me as egotistical, that's an insult brother. I happen to have written an "irrefutable" treatise on the first resurrection, and several of my pastor friends have told me that there is not any theologian in the whole world, that can refute it. (which fact I already know) Back home in Missouri, we have a saying; "If a man can do it, It Ain't Braggin'.."
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 How could the 144.000 be the man child.It could only be Christ right?
Patriotsfan1975 8 months ago
@Patriotsfan1975 ...I have given an explanation to the question about the 144,000 down below in my response to "Mr. Arrogant"-aka- "prewrathrapture333". Why it cannot be Christ, is simply the timeline of Rev.12. happens at the "mid-point" of teh 'future tribulation", as well as the fact, that this "man-child" does Not "grow up", and never has a "minisrtry" so to speak, as Christ did. The passage says "the dragon stood before the woman," (Israel) "for to devour her child as soon as it....
sorens70601 8 months ago
...was born". This was Not the case with Christ's birth. If you carefully study Isa.66:7-8, it will become clear to you that there are "two birth stages", in verse 7, "before she travailed, she brought forth, before her pain came, she was delivered of a man-child". (this refers to the "sealing" of teh 144,000, in Rev.7:1-8, as well as in Ezek.9:1-6) Then in verse 8, ( of Isa. 66) "...shall a nation be born at once ? for as 'soon as' Zion travailed, she brought forth her children"...
sorens70601 8 months ago
...(children ,plural, yet speaking of this same 'Man child" of the previous verse, verse 7) This refers to "the resurrection" of the 144,000, Rev.12:5, and then we find in Rev.14:1-4, the gathering of all three "firstfruit orders", without the mention of angels or the previously resurrected "Innumerable company" of Rev.7:9-17, and in fact Rev.14:4, declares the 144,000 as "firstfruits unto God, and the Lamb" Not only Christ will "rule with a rod of Iron", but so will the Church, Mt.19:28, ...
sorens70601 8 months ago
...Rom.8:17, 1.Cor.6:2, 2.Tim.2:12, Rev.1:5-6, Rev.2:27-28, Rev.5:10, Rev.22:4-5. Even the Old Testament saints will have this privelege, Jer.30:9, Ezek.37:24-25, Dan.7:18, 27, Hos.3:5, Mt.8:11-12. So the assumption by some, that the wording , "Rule with a rod of Iron", refers only to Christ, demonstrates their limited knowledge of the scriptures, indicating that they should refrain from imposing their limited knowledge, and should rather ask and learn, from those who know.
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 Give me a few days to read.I will respond to it.Thanks for the response.On the 2 witnesses,My pastor thinks it is Moses.Heres why,They both could call on the plagues mentioned in the Bible where if I am correct,Enoch did not do.I agree with you on this though.
Patriotsfan1975 8 months ago
@Patriotsfan1975 ...Whereas it is true that Moses was instrumental in several 'judgments', such as the plagues on Egypt, and also the sons of Korah, the fact is , Mosed is dead, and Heb.9:27, "shut's the door" on that possibility. Is your pastor, the Gentleman on this video above here ? You might want to take a look at my website, just 'google', "Sorensen ministries". My book "None Dare Call It Deception", is a never before discussed treatise on the first resurrection and it's seven orders
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 No this is not my pastor.My pastor is never on YT.Chat with you in a few days ok? God Bless.
Patriotsfan1975 8 months ago
@sorens70601 Isn't there a passage in the New TEstament though about Michael and the devil fighting over the body of Moses? What's that all about? And didn't Moses appear on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus? Do you think that was simply a vision that had an intended message or was it actually Moses?
greenpilgrim50 5 months ago
@greenpilgrim50 ....Yes, in Jude,verse 9, that is mentioned. I am glad you asked this question, as modern theology does not want the to discuss this 'episode' .The reason for this "battle", was that the Bible declares that Moses was; "Learned in All the wisdom of Egypt".(Acts.7:22) What this means, (and this is why theologians do not want to discuss this, because they also "belong to the Club") is that Moses was a"Mason", as teh religion of 'Masonry' already existed at that time.(this is a ...
sorens70601 5 months ago
...religion, which God says he Hates, and you can read about it in Ezek.8) It has for the last several hundred years been under Jewish control,( by the Zionist's) and throught the Kabbala) and all educational "degree's" reflect the "masonic"control, by the "mortarboard" (at graduation) and three stripes on the "toga". So, because Moses was in a religion that "oposes" God, and worships "Lucifer", the Devil "assumed" he could have "claim" to Moses's body. (That's what 'masonry' is, "spitiual ...
sorens70601 5 months ago
...body snatchers", through this Satanic system) But the Devil had "forgotten", that "Moses chose to suffer with His people,rather than live in luxury in Egypt", as well as the fact that the scriptures make it clear, that Christ; "Was the Lamb slain, from the 'foundation' of the World",(Gr."Katabole", meaning the overthrow of the previous social system that existed before Adam) Therefore Moses was "saved" by the blood of Christ,a s the Bible attests to, that "they drank of that rock, and...
sorens70601 5 months ago
...that rock was Christ",(1.Cor.10:1-4) That is why Michael, (the Prince of the Jewish people,Dan.12) stood up aginst the Devil,Satan) and Michael "burried" Moses. (No 'Masonic rituals' allowed here) Every funeral parlour, anywhere in the World, is owned and or, Controlled by Masons's. God Hates this "world system", from which also will emmerge the Antichrist. It is this "Masonic System" that Jesus referred to in Mt.8:21-22, when he answered , "let the dead,(spiritual dead) bury the dead".
sorens70601 5 months ago
...As for the "Mount of trasfiguration" experience, and the appearance of Moses and Elijah, that was a real appearance, but must be understood in the light of scripture, which declares, that "it is apointed for Man , once to die, thereafter the Judgment. So Moses, having 'died', cannot come back as one of the two witnesses. But Enoch, the only 'other person', (other than Elijah) to have been removed alive from earth, will return to "do the judgments of Moses", so to speak. Hope this helps.
sorens70601 5 months ago
...treatise in a public debate with me (which so far, they are unwilling to engage in) I doubt that your education level on this issue, can even measure up to their "ankles". Sorry to be so harsh, but you have demonstrated the same "arrogance" of "dumbed down" American christianity. But thanks for the time anyway !!!
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 just give the script instead of the insults.ur the one with the webpage that says there's a 7year trib,genius
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 that was the easiest debate ive ever won in my life.just ask for a script and u run away!ha ha ha
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@sorens70601 I thought it would be Enoch as one of the two witnesses BUT,See the But part? How do you think its Enoch?What scriptures do you use .Please show me what you learned.
Patriotsfan1975 8 months ago
@Patriotsfan1975 .... You are correct, it is Enoch, and Elijah, That fulfill the persons of the "two witnesses". The scriptural passage that leads us to that conclusion, is the passage that says, "It is appointed for Man once to die, there after the judgment". Moses died and was buried by the ange, so he cannot return. The only two persons that have been taken from the Earth 'alive', were Enoch, and the prophet Elijah.
That seems to be the only possible outcome for this question.
sorens70601 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Job 14:12-14 speaks of the time of the rapture with: "man lieth down, and riseth not: "till the heavens be no more". This correlates with the 6th seal of Revelation 6:14 where "the heaven departed as a scroll".
1cd5 9 months ago
Amen.
AlYassou3Rabbi 1 year ago
1) I am not SDA, but this doesn't mean they don't teach the historic, Protestant position on Bible prophecy. In fact, they are one of the only groups teaching historicism, and who oppose both preterism and futurism.
2) SDA's are Baptists, like myself.
3) I could never be SDA because they are Arminian in their soteriological views; whereas I am Reformed (Calvinist).
*Truly sad to see someone who can't argue their point, but would rather use 'ad hominem' attacks.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 no you know good and well i made my point -and SDA's are not baptist and not only are they arminian-but they are arian-i made my point with simple math as shown in the bible and you cant refute it-4 u 2 say that i'm not able to argue my point is a lie- and u still haven't answered the question on matt.how is the great trib contemporary with the abomination if the abomination was CHRIST and the desolation was in 70AD?ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 you know, if you say i haven't made my arguement,then YOU are the liar-i have steamrolled every point you made with the script and you know it-you cant answer my question on the chronology of the great trib because you know you are wrong and you are to proud to admit it-i more than did my job exposing your false doctrine and you know it-it was easy and i didnt have to go outside the bible one time to do it so if you wanna shrugg the question off-i understand-but you have nothing
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 soteriological-are you trying to impress with your vast vocabulary-why cant you just say they are works righteous?that means the rely on their own works to save them-that means they are lost and going to hell-why would you take the teachings of uninspired GODLESS people who can't even grasp the concept of salvation?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. -this is from SDA website
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rkg62976 SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH IS A CULT
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 YOU GO TO EGYPT FOR YOUR BIBLE AND TO A CULT FOR YOUR DOCTRINE
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 John Calvin (1509-1564) “. . .we ought to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the church” (Institutes, Vol. 2, p. 411).
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 John Knox (1515-1572) “. . . the great love of God towards his Church, whom he pleased to forewarne of dangers to come, so many years before they come to passe. . . to wit, The man of sin, The antichrist, The Whore of Babilon” (The Historie of the Reformatioun. . ., I, p. 76).
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Jerome (340-420) “I told you that Christ would not come unless Antichrist had come before” (Epistle 21)
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 John Wesley (1703-1791) “ „The stars shall . . . fall from heaven,‟ (Revelation, vi 13). . . And then shall be heard the universal shout. . . followed by the „voice of the archangel,‟ . . . „and the trumpet of God‟. . . (I Thessalonians iv. 16). (The Works of the rev. John Wesley, A.M., Vol. V, p. 173).
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Justin Martyr (100-168) “The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians. . .” (Dialogue With Trypho, 110)
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Irenaeus (140-202) “And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight” (Against Heresies, V, 26)
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Hippolytus (160-240) “. . .the one thousand two hundred and three score days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61)
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...What you have posted below, is nothinhg but other men's opinions, and do not mout to a "hill of beans". What the scriptures declare, is all that matters. And the scriptures declare the "pre-wrath" theory as faulty as the "pre-trib" theory, (and the Post, and mid -trib theory) Because they all fail to reckognize, that there are "several orders", to the first resurrection. My Book ; "None Dare Call It Deception", is the only Irrefutable, accurate, and biblically correct...
sorens70601 8 months ago
...treatise, on the first resurrection. My Name is Morgan Sorensen, you can find me on the web, just google my name, and my website will come up. I am sure Dr. Steve Hereford is a sincere and honorable man, who wants to teach the truth, but on this issue, he is 'sincerely wrong'. Have him contact me !! I am a missionary/ Bible prophecy teacher, in ministry since 1963. I have the answer to the "rapture dillema". Please, Dr. Hereford, get in touch with me !!!
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 i dont deny that there are orders to the ressurection,neither does pastor sawyer,therefore,your accusation is faulty.and as for pre tribs,they use the order of ressurection to explain why there are trib saints in rev 20 that have taken part in the 1st resurrection.so i know good and well u dont even have a clue about their position either.keep ur book to ur self.i didnt post this so u could sell a book.u dont seem to have enough knowledge to teach in the 1st place.
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@sorens70601 -also,im well aware that my posts are other mens opinions,thats why i posted their names next to them.im pretty sure that if u read all of the post,ull see that i was making a point to a pretriber that the early church leaders did not believe in a pretrib rapture.if someone quotes ur book,that too will be a man's opinion.at 1st i thought this comment page went to my prewrath vid.as u can see,ur responding to a 7 month old post-i had to refresh myself.btw-u come off as pompous.
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...There is nothing in my posting , that is either "pompous" or "accusative", other than pointing out that "pre-wreath" is a faulty teaching , that I for one, can "obliterate" with scriptural facts. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated an arrogant pompous attitude, and obvious lack of judgment.
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 go for it.-obliterate it
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@sorens70601 i looked at ur website.on the 1st paragraph on ur home page ur wrong about the tribulation lasting 7 years.if u cant get something as simple as that right,why should i read ur book?why should anyone?
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
@prewrathrapture333 ...Well, let us look at the scriptural facts. Dan.9:24-27, begins with ; "Seventy years are determined upon thy people, and the Holy City "... and continues to declare "seven" weeks to restore Jerusalem,
and a further "sixty two weeks,(of years) to be completed",(for a total of 69 weeks) and "AFTER" 69 weeks, the Messiah was to be "Cut off". That leaves but "one full week",(after A.D.31) that was postponed, and "to
be fulfilled" in the latter days. Verse 27.....
sorens70601 8 months ago
...declares that "He", (the Prince that shall come, the Antichrist) will "Confirm the covenant, for ONE Week".
(That is seven years) the first half of that period of seven years, is called "the beginning of sorrows". When we come to the exact mid-point of those seven years, that part of Dan.9:27, which declares; "And in the midst of the week, 'He' (the Antichrist) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". From this point on, the last half of the seven years,(1260 days) ...
sorens70601 8 months ago
...are called "Jacobs trouble", and or , "the Great tribulation". But all this is inclusive in that Last "postponed week", of seven years, as clearly laid out in Dan.9:27. If you have any scriptures that refute that , then I would like to know about it. Because I have been overseas for 23 years, I am mostly "un-known" in Christian circles back home here in the U.S. But in certain Christian circles overseas, I am regarded as one of the foremost teachers of eschatology in the World today...
sorens70601 8 months ago
....I am sorry to have to "toot my own horn", but I don't know what it is going to take, for what I see as mostly "arrogant" Christian leadership, to recognize Me , as well as My never before discussed treatise on the "first resurrection and it's seven different orders". It makes all these "four theories", (Pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, and van Kampens Pre-wrath) Obsolete !!! As it centers around the feasts , and Paul's resurrection "outline" in 1.Cor15:23. (first Christ, then the ....
sorens70601 8 months ago
...'Firstfruits",(plural, as there are three separate orders of those), the "four living creatures"(the graves that opened Mt.27:52-53, rev 4 and 5) the "24 Elders",(Rev 4:1-6) and the "144,000" (which are only resurrected at the "mid-point" of the seven year tribulation) Only AFTER This; "They that are Christ's, at HIS COMING". Furthermore, the Pre-wrath Idea, that the "seven Vials", (Bowls) take place "after the "seven Trumpets", Is refuted by Rev.10:5-7, which indicates 'NO MORE ...
sorens70601 8 months ago
....WRATH', (or tribulation) possible, in the days of the "Seventh Trumpet", as the "Mystery of God is FINISHED" That means, " it's over with " , NOW BEGINS THE TIME OF "THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS". Any variance with these scriptural facts, becomes ERROR . If you can get me in touch with this preacher on this video, I can help him understand the scriptures. I am saddened by the "professional Arrogance" amongst Christian ministers back her in the U.S, as well as their lack of knowledge.
sorens70601 8 months ago
@sorens70601 i agree with everything you said except that the 144000 are sealed in the middle of the 7 years.as u see in mat24:29,the sun is darkenedAFTER the tribulation of those days.at that point on,the 7years is over and the church is raptured and the jews sealed,as soon as we see CHRIST comming in the clouds.then after this begins the wrath of GOD/time of restitution(trumps/viles)...
prewrathrapture333 8 months ago
The Jews, and nearly all ancient middle-eastern peoples, used a 30 day lunar MONTHLY CALENDAR. I have never said otherwise. However, the peoples that used a lunar monthly calendar NEVER used a 360 day YEARLY CALENDAR! They all had various ways of reconciling the 365.25 day solar year with the 30 day monthly lunar calendar.
.
*See G.L.Archer's discussion of this in the Expositor's Bible Commentary, vol.7, pp.114-115.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 G.L.archer was wrong according to GOD as shown in rev 11 and 12-1260/360=3.5 no mater what each unit represent-rather it's day=year or day=mellinium-in order for 1260 days to = 3.5 years,only a 360 day year could balance the eqution-lets try it with a 365 day year:1260/365=3.452054795-so maybe youre right AND GOD'S MATH IS OFF-MAYBE YOU SHOULD CORRECT THE BIBLE AND STICK G.L.ARCHER'S STUDY NOTE IN PLACE OF REV11:2-3 AND REV12:6&14-YOU ARE REFUTED-NOW GIVE IT UP!
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 btw-wut point would GOD have in using a lunar calendar to describe how long Noah was in the ark and to describe how long the woman would be in the wilderness-but He sees fit for some reason to change to a 365.24 day calendar to give us his prophesies?and if you are a baptist,why do you have SDA false teachings on your youtube channel-and wut does your pastor think of the SDA church?WHY DO YOU ALWAYS POINT TO MAN FOR YOUR BIBLE DOCTRINE AND I ALWAYS POINT TO THE BIBLE?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 i dont think you backed up ONE point you made with script-you always go to some MAN'S comentery-i have gone to the scripts every time!YOU QUOTE MAN-I QUOTE GOD-I BELIEVE THE BIBLE-YOU BELIEVE COMENTARY-YOU CALL JESUS AN ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE,I CALL HIM THE LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH,HOLY HOLY HOLY YHWH GOD,THE ANCIENT OF DAYS-FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING-LORD GOD ALMIGHTY-wut do the SDA's call him? you have their false teachings all over your channel-who do they say he is?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976btw there is only one church father and that is GOD-you have no proof that i would be refuted by any of the reformers-but one thing i know they would refute NO DOUBT is your esv false bible per-version-do you realize that many of these men(including tyndale)were burned at the stake with the textus receptus tied to their faces?i cant think of one person who was martyred for the alexandrian text-can you?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Martin Luther (1483-1546) “[The book of Revelation] is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the Church. . .” (Works of Martin Luther, VI, p. 481).
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
So sad to see Calvinists falling for the false prophetic interpretation of dispensational futurism. The 70th week of Dan.9:27 has absolutely nothing to do with antichrist. The whole prophecy (Dan.9:24-27) is Messianic in nature. "He will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease...", is referring to the work of Christ on the cross, not the work of antichrist. There is no "gap" between the 69th and 70th weeks, it was a continual prophecy with no gaps intimated in the text.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the OVERSPREADING OF ABOMINATIONS he shall make it desolate, even until the CONSUMATION, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. -so i guess the abomination part has nothing to do with antichrist?and i suppose the marriage supper has already occurred "consumation"?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.9:27 "the abomination of desolation" is speaking of the temple destruction by Titus in 70 A.D. This prophecy has absolutely nothing to do with Antichrist. Second, the desolation of the temple would be a reality UNTIL the consumation (the 2nd Advent). Therefore, no rebuilt temple will ever be of any significance, as Christ is the perfect temple.
Thanks for your inquiry ;)
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be-has that happened yet?was the destruction of the temple greater than ww2 or several othe events that i could list?then the abomination spoken of in Mat 24:15 could NOT be titus now could it?and becaus CHRIST is the perfect temple.does NOT mean that another will not be built-that is an assumption-not in scripture
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 alos remember the question that was asked of JESUS by his apostles at the begining of the chapter-remember this statement is an answer to that question Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
if JESU is claiming that the coming of titus was a sign of the end-he would have been lying and that is something God can't do
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Mt.24:3 "..when shall these things be [the temple destruction, which happened in 70 A.D *See v.2]...and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age) [referring to Jesus' 2nd Advent].
*Again, dispensational futurists read the WHOLE chapter of Mt.24 as only having relevance during a 7-yr. period of tribulation. Partial preterists believe the WHOLE passage to be only speaking of the 70 A.D. temple destruction.
BOTH systems are flawed.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 no they are not BOTH flawed-think for a sec about my point-Mat 24:21 For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor EVER shall be.FOR THEN?WHEN?refer back to Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) the great trib will not happen until the A.O.D.stands in holy place-this did not yet happen
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 you calling me a liar shows that you dont believe the hply ghost can reveal something to a person thru script-all i needed was info on the internet knowing the date of the comand to restore jerusalem-anybody who reads the bible knows about artaxerxies and nehemiah-then i did some very basic math-nothing enourmous about it-then i looked up some info on the reign of tiberius and used luke as a guide to tell me when messiah was "cut-off"-wut's so complex about that?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 "you calling me a liar shows that you dont believe the hply ghost can reveal something to a person thru script-all i needed was info on the internet knowing the date of the comand to restore jerusalem"
This shows that the Holy Spirit did NOT reveal this to you. An "internet search" does not proper Biblical exegesis make.
Your view of the 70th week being separated from the 69 weeks is the most popular today, and is also an erroneous interpretation of Dan.9:24-27.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 did anderson need to read a book?no and it was easy to find the dates i needed because of the internet-anderson didnt have that.youre worried about dishonering men by not going along with their misinterpretations-but you dishonor God by misinterpreting his word in order to honor men-this lets me know you are a man pleaser-and no you havent answered me on matt.the question is if the abomination was fulfilled in 70A.D.,then why is the great trib shown to begin AT THAT TIME?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Once again, Mt.24:15,21 is talking about the temple destruction in 70 A.D., when upwards of 1 million Jews were killed.
You begin the 70 weeks with 445 B.C. So, then, just add 483 yrs. (the Jews used a SOLAR yearly calendar, just like everyone else in the ancient mid-east) and you come to 38/39 A.D., which is way too late for the crucifixion. Your math does not add up, that's why you have to falsely claim the Jews used a 360 day year.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 and if the abomination occurred in 70AD,what is dan 9:26 talking about?the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. -this is the event of 70 AD prophesied by daniel and occurs in the 69th week-the abomination of the 70th week is a diff event-btw,i'm not a protestant-i'm a baptist-the protestants are still carrying around old catholic doctrine
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 "btw,i'm not a protestant-i'm a baptist-the protestants are still carrying around old catholic doctrine"
*I am a Baptist as well, but apparently you have never read the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which is a thoroughly Protestant confession following after what Martin Luther began, and what the Reformers in Geneva and England continued.
And your dispensational futurism they would have refuted.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 once again yet another statement with no facts to support it-but anyway,another peice of BIBLICAL evidence for a 360 day calendar is found in gen7&8-it plainly states that 150 days =5 months showing that a biblical month=30 days-but i guess you'll refute that with yet another unbiblical and factually unsupported statement-also,even if the day units in revelation are representations of day=year-how does it change the fact that 1260day"units if you will are still =to 42 months?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 you see, 1260%360=3.5 & 42%3.5=12 no matter what each day represents so you are REFUTED once again-now repent and admit youre wrong and tell me that you will never teach this false teaching again!
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Not only this, but dispensational futurists cut off the 70th week from the 69th, and then throw it some 2,000 yrs. into the future (the "gap" theory). This is not only unbiblical, but illogical. If the 70th week does not follow directly after the 69th week, can it logically be called the 70th week? Of course not. This is one of the major false prophecies of the end times, and we're seeing it unfold right before our very eyes.
"Those who have eyes to see..." ;)
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Jesus was crucified in 32 ad-refer to the reign of tiberius in luke chpt 3 as a marker of the year that JESUS began his ministry-titus came in 70 ad so how can you say that your version of the 70th week follows directly after the 69th?-look,i dont break fellowship over things like this-we are brothers so lets watch how we talk infront of the lost people reading this and be a good testimony for them-i enjoy reasoning scripts with you
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 The 490 yr. time prophecy of Dan.9:24-27 has nothing to do with the temple destruction in 70 A.D. Rather, the temple destruction was only the consequence of the rejection of Messiah by corporate Israel.
70th week: Jesus fulfills the first half with His 3.5 yr. ministry. The apostles' preached mainly to the Jews for the latter half of the 70th week (3.5 yrs.). The 490 yrs. ended with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. Gospel goes out to the world.
Soli Deo Gloria!
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 your interpretation of the 70weeks is not possible-when is the prophecy to begin?dan9:25-from the going forth of the comandment to restore and build jerusalem.when did this happen on solar calendar?445b.c.-refer to nehemiah2:1-6when was messiah cut-off(crucified)?after 7weeks and 62 weeks=69wks.69x7=483jew yrs-convert to solar yrs:483yrsx360dys=173880dys%365.25solar yrs=476solar yrs-445bc-476yrs=31+add 1 yr because there is no yr0=32ad-THE EXACT DAY CHRIST WENT TO CROSS
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Dispensationalists begin the 490 yr. prophecy from the wrong date and decree from Artaxerxes. The correct starting point is with his first decree beginning in 457 B.C. (Ezra 7). Add 483 yrs. to this date and one comes to the very date of Jesus' baptism (27 A.D.).
*To assert that the Jews, or any other middle-eastern people, used a lunar yearly calendar, would be erroneous. They used a lunar MONTHLY calendar, but all had ways of reconciling this to a 365.25 day solar yr
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 @rkg62976 so u go to a false alexanderan text to make your point-"as soon as i dont like what this bible says,i just go to another one till i find one that makes MY point" is that how that works?luke 3 clears the debate on JESUS baptism-refer to reign of tiberius-research and you'll find JESUS was baptised in 28a.d
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 If you wish to assert that Jesus was baptized in 28 A.D., that's fine. But my point is that Jesus' baptism began the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.
The 445 B.C. date does not add up: 483 yrs. from 445 B.C.=38/39 A.D., which is way too late for the crucifixion. I have already told you that Anderson's theory that the Jews used a 360 day yearly calendar is fallacious, as all ancient people's from the mid-east used a 365.25 day year.
*Bible translations is not the issue.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
now let me ask you,what is 1260%360?hmmm-it comes out to exactly 3.5-a time,times and half a time
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 The 1,260 day time prophecies, given seven times in the Bible (twice in Daniel, and five times in the book of Revelation) are all DAY=YEAR. This is the historic, Protestant view of the 1,260 days/years. Both dispensational futurists, and partial preterists completely abandon what the Reformers taught concerning the day=year principle.
Both systems teach a false eschatological interpretation.
*The 1,260 days represent LITERAL YEARS!
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 i disagree-gota go grocery shoppin-be back a lil' later-peace
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 do you want another referance?Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth-you do the math on this one-as for my tone-it is fine-you cant refute what i say so you attack how i say it-typical
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 I have already referenced the seven places in the Scriptures that reveal the 1,260 days. And as I've stated, they are ALL to be read as DAY=YEAR. Yes, the "little horn" (Dan.7) and the "sea beast" (Rev.13:1-10) reigns for 1,260 years (this is the antichrist). The "woman in the wilderness" (Rev.12) is nourished for 1,260 years. The "two witnesses" (Rev.11) prophesy for 1,260 years, during the antichrist's reign.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 "...forty two months, reckoning A DAY FOR A YEAR, after the prophetic style, make 1260 YEARS; which is the exact time of the witnesses prophesying in sackcloth [Rev.11], of the church's being hid and nourished in the wilderness [Rev.12], and of the beast's reign [Rev.13:1-10], and so of the holy city being trodden under foot."
[John Gill (1748), Exposition on the Whole Bible, Rev.11:2]
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 so you say the beast reigns for 1260 years?when does all this start and end?and as for the woman in rev12-this is israel-refer to gen37:9-11,she brought forth the man child-israel referenced thru out bible as woman in travail(Is26:7)satan makes war with remenant of seed wich have testimony of Christ-the Church didnt bring forth the man child-Israel did the day/ year is used in the making of prophecy not the fulfilment why should they all be read as day=year?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Rev.12:1-5 is talking about the Israel of the O.T. (which included gentiles, by the way). And vs. 6-17 is talking about the spiritual Israel of the New Covenant (the church). Notice that the church is the same "woman" as vs. 1-5. This refutes the idea that God has two groups of people: the church and the modern nation-state of Israel.
*Sorry, but it's not possible to answer ALL of your questions in this short post.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 no-you see,your not refuting anythin-your just stating it-just making the declaration that the woman is the church doesnt refute a thing i said-now i will refute you again on this subject-mat 24:16 is a parellel to the woman being brought into the wilderness in rev12 notice satans wrath is what prompts this to happen look at dan 11:45 and dan12-same event of satans wrath,notice she is given the wings of an eagle-sound familiar?look at ex19:4
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 God promises that he would do this for Israel all thru the O.T.:hos2:14 jer 31:2 she is promised by God that she will be saved from the persecution of satan rev12:15-16refer to IS59:19;43:2 and where do you think the 144,00 in rev7 are when they are sealed?in the wilderness where God brought them to escape antichrist persecution when he comes in the clouds and every eye sees him-so will israel and thus the fulfillment of zech12:10-now THAT is how you refute a false doctrine
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 i dont care what adam clark says anymore than what benny hinn or paul crouch might say-stay in the scriptures and read them as they are naturally writen and u can't go wrong-i notice that most people who are confussed on this stuff have their noses in other peoples commentaries all the time.a commentary is like eating someone elses chewed food-get in the bible and TASTE that the LORD is good-i didnt know who anderson was b4 u told me-i figured dan's 70 weeks on holy ghost power-try it!
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@prewrathrapture333 "i dont care what adam clark says..."
*Adam Clarke's commentary is revered by many scholars. Even C.H. Spurgeon recommended it (although Clarke was an Arminian).
You said: "...i didnt know who anderson was b4 u told me-i figured dan's 70 weeks on holy ghost power-try it!"
*Your erroneous math regarding the 70 weeks shows that you have read some works on the subject, therefore, you are lying when you said, "i figured [it out] on holy ghost power".
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 stop dodging my question about the great tribulation following the abomination in matthew 24-and dont just state that i'm wrong-reason with me from the scripts-go ahead and pull out every commentary you got if you want-but you have dodged this question about 3 or 4 times-
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 I have answered the question about Mt.24 a couple times now. Half the chapter is speaking about the temple destruction in 70 A.D., which some scholars have commented involved the death of upwards of 1 million Jews. The other half is speaking of the events leading up to the 2nd Advent of Christ.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Notice what Adam Clarke's Commentary says about the time of the "sea beast's" (Rev.13:5) reign:
"...As these forty-two months are prophetic, they must mean so many years as there are days...The beast, therefore, will continue in existence at least 1260 years..."
[Adam Clarke (d.1832). Commentary on the whole Bible, Rev.13:5]
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 i see your problem is reading commentary and not the bible-how foolish to call the woman of rev12 the church-no biblical basis at all-infact quite the contrary-adam clark reasoning does not work-Jesus prophesied he would be 3 days in the heart of the earth-did he mean 3 years?and the beast is a man and constantly refered to as a man and is thrown in the lake of fire with the false prophet who is also a man
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 "Jesus prophesied he would be 3 days in the heart of the earth-did he mean 3 years?"
The problem with your argument is that Jesus was using a prophecy from the O.T. (namely, the prophet Jonah) to explain His own death, burial, and resurrection. Therefore, the day=year principle does not apply.
And generally, the day=year principle only applies to the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelation.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 It is not "foolish" to call the "woman in the wilderness" (Rev.12:6-17) the church. In fact, this has been the proper interpretation of this passage throughout many centuries of Christian thought and writing.
It is only futurists who twist this passage to make the whole thing refer to only the fleshly descendants of Israel.
The commentaries provided by Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, John Gill...etc. are very useful in understanding Protestant hermeneutics.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 also reguarding "the woman"look in rev12:17-the dragon was usuccesful in persecuting the woman-so he targets the remnant of her seed-who is this?well,the woman was israel,Christ was her seed(rev12:1-5 and gen3:15)and when Christ went to heaven, he left a remnant wich is the church-notice they have the testimony of Jesus Christ-i didnt twist anything up and i provided script to make my case-NO COMMENTARY NEEDED
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Rev.12:17. Yes, the dragon (Satan) persecutes the "woman" (the true Israel, which is the church). The "remnant of her seed" refers to all believers in Christian history.
And the reason I provide commentary quotations is so everyone can see that the dispnesational futurist interpretation of the 1,260 days as a literal 3.5 years is not in line with historic Protestantism.
To completely disregard what our forefathers taught is to dishonor their memory.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 but you still have not answered a point i brought up a while back-Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 70 a.d. does not fulfill this even and neither has any event since
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 I thought you wanted to have a civilized, Christian discussion. Your tone is now becoming disrespectful, and is completely off-topic. Even my KJV Bible has a note in the margin for Dan.9:24 ("to seal up the vision and prophecy"), and the note says "prophet".
Your arguments are no longer sound. You have been refuted. And you are now simply getting frustrated. I suggest you do some more homework.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Artaxerxes comanded ezra to rebuild temple-not the city itself wich is exactly what nehemiah did
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 SO HOW COULD CHRIST'S MINISTRY FULFILL THE FIRST 3.5 YRS OF 70TH WEEK IF IT ENDED IN THE 69TH WEEK?AND ALSO HOW DOES THE STONING OF STEVEN FULFILL VS.27?AND IF THIS PROPHECY IS LITERAL ALL THE WAY THRU THE 69TH WEEK,WHY WOULD THE 70TH NOT BE?-YOU ADMITTED CONSUMATION WAS @ND ADVENT-THIS IS PART OF THE PROPHECY AND THIS HAS CERTAINLY NOT BEEN FULFILLED-AND DOES IT EVER CROSSED UR MIND WHY REVELATION IS DIVIDED INTO TWO 3.5 TIME PERIODS?
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 The 69th week (483rd yr.) ended with the baptism of Jesus; the 70th week thus began with Jesus' earthly ministry. 3.5 yrs. into His ministry He was "cut off" ("in the midst of the WEEK"-- that is, the 70th week). The stoning of Stephen fulfilled Dan.9:24 "to seal up the vision and prophet" (the ESV says "prophet", which is the most accurate rendering of the text).
The 1,260 day time prophecies given in Dan.7:25,12:7; Rev.11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5--are NOT speaking of days.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 FUNNY THAT U SAY HE WAS "CUT-OFF"IN THE 70TH WEEK WHEN DAN9:26 STATES CLEARLY THAT HE IS CUT-OFF IN THE 69TH WEEK AND I NEVER SAID THAT THOSE PROPHECYS WERE SPEAKING IN TERMS OF DAYS-I UNDERSTAND THE DAY YEAR FORMULA SPOKEN OF IN EZE4-AND I WOULDNT GIVE 2CENTS FOR THE RENDERING OF THE ESV OR ANY OTHER ALEXANDRIAN WESTCOTT AND HORT PERVERSION-IF U WANT TO GO BY THE ALEXANDRIAN RENDERING OF THE BIBLE,THEN U WOULD HAVE TO THROW THE BOOK OF REV AWAY BECAUSE ITS NOT FOUND IN THOSE TEXT
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.9:26 "..after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off.." (ESV). Nowhere in the text does it say that Messiah would be cut off during, or at the close of the 69 weeks. You are reading into the text your own presuppositions, a classic case of eisegesis. Dan.9:27 states "...for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.." This Jesus did by His sacrifice, as noted by the antecedent in verse 26.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 YOU ARE GOING ON PURE ASSUMPTION THAT THE LAST WEEK OF DAN COULD NOT OCCUR IN THE LAST DAYS-NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE IS IT SAID THAT IT CANT BE DONE!Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. is this passage refering to the crucified CHRIST?would JESUS refer to himself as an abomination?nothing of wut u say is scriptural
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@prewrathrapture333 Dan.11:31 is speaking of a completely different prophetic time period than Dan.9:24-27. Don't confuse the two.
In Mt.24:15, Jesus is speaking of the temple destruction in 70 A.D. As I have stated three times now, Jesus is answering two questions throughout Mt.24: 1) When shall these things be? (the temple destruction), and 2) What shall be the sign of your coming? (the 2nd Advent).
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 btw-i don't want this to get too nasty so i just wanted to say that this has been an awesome debate and you are a worthy opponent-i don't agree with what ur saying but i apreciate ur passion and ur studious attitude toward the bible-even though i disagree with your choice in versions :)
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 WHY IS THE GREAT TRIB SAID TO OCCURR AT SAME TIME AS ABOMINATION AND IMEDIATELY AFTER GREAT TRIB, SON OF MAN COMES WITH THE CLOUDS-IF 70 AD WAS ABOMINATION-ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE-THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE BEEN RAPTURED BY NOW!!!SIMPLE QUESTION
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976for you to keep saying that 1 mill jews were killed in 70 AD still doesnt constiute a time of trouble that the world has not yet seen-6mill died in ww2-the bible saysAT THAT TIME-refering back to abomination-will be a time of trouble...
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
@rkg62976 so i guess the Holy ghost couldnt prompt me to go search out the dates of the reign of tiberius and artaxerxies-fine,you wanna solf,then scolf-i guess going to the writings of ex catholics IS proper exogesis-your getting your intire doctrine based on wut they said,i atleast did the work myself and you are so blind to see that the numbers in these prophecies using these methods all just happen to work out-now STOP DODGING MY QUESTION ON MATT
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
One MAJOR ERROR amongst many christians is this, the idea that Jesus Chrsit is going to "Rapture the church. He is going to gather his elect, his chossen ones. The Gospel of LUKE tells us this... [34] I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. [35] Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
I'm Charismatic so I like to speak in tongues : "badda basonda bodda basoida badda basonda, boo roo ku sabba da dee" just kidding. I hate Charismatics and their pathetic doctrine
pittedthighs 2 years ago
@pittedthighs Mocking the Holy Spirit?? Not very wise..
disciplesofthecross 2 years ago
no, i was actually mocking the unclean spirit inside the person who is making them utter those foolish things. :-)
pittedthighs 1 year ago
@pittedthighs It would appear you don't know God at all and obviously you don't know the scriptures...
disciplesofthecross 1 year ago
@disciplesofthecross - well, if YOU really knew Jehovah Elohim and the Bible you would know that speaking in tongues is NOT a jibberish/glossolalia language. Just read Acts 2 and the text itself says they heard them speaking in their own language. They weren't going "bodda basonda bodda basoida bodda basanda"
pittedthighs 1 year ago
@pittedthighs If I recall correctly, 'Tongues' is actually a quick utterance of many languages. The gift, therein, is being able to speak to someone in a language you normally wouldn't be able to speak in. I may be wrong though. I'm a bit weak in the area of 'Tongues', but I do know that, to this day, it's still valid.
Pzykowulf 1 year ago
the bible says that if we hate another brother we comitt murder...i would hope that you meant strongly disagree?
50A3Mark 1 year ago
@50A3Mark - I dont mean hate. i retract that comment. I do believe it is demonic though.
pittedthighs 1 year ago
@pittedthighs I sincerely hope that you're not a christian saying those things. Remember what is taught to us in Ephesians 4:2 "Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love."
Pzykowulf 1 year ago
@Pzykowulf did you just say that you hope@pittedthighs is not a christian?what kinda statement is that?i hope he is a christian and if not i hope he will be soon!
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
Praise the Lord He will give us the strength to get though the tribulation :-)
THOUARTAMAZINGGOD 2 years ago
@THOUARTAMAZINGGOD Indeed, we praise the Lord in all things; however, if you read in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This is written in context that we're not appointed for wrath; thus, we're not appointed to endure the tribulation, because we've been faithful up to that point. Tribulation is for the non-believers, not the believers.
We see the church in Heaven in Revelation 4 if youw ant to read it.
Pzykowulf 1 year ago
@Pzykowulf we are not appointed to the wrath of God but the church will face the wrath of satan-thats what this video is about
prewrathrapture333 1 year ago
"at the last trump"
after the seventh seal is opened, after the six angel sound thier trumpets ...
Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God should be finished"
Ephisians 3:3"How buy revelation he (God) made known to me a mystery"
Ephesians 3:5 "that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs"
Colosians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,but now is made manifest to his saints
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Why is it that people keep teaching Christ's return after a 7 year tribulation? Many teach the signs as way out there in the future...WHY??? These signs have been happening for years. Christ's return is imminent, but it is NOT pre-tribulation. We are in tribulation. GOD doesn't work according to an outline. HE works on HIS own time. Many will be caught off guard because they think they have GOD figured out. JUST BE READY!!!!
KTetteh 2 years ago
many will be cought of gaurd becouse they think they will not go through tribulation, do you see any churches boycotting the verichip company,the only technology on earth to implament a mark that can dictate whether or not you buy and sell.?
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Are you assuming that a verichip mark is the mark of the beast? Why focus on an element like this when the most important thing is to WATCH AND PRAY. The churches are the first to be deceived because they have apotasized and are under to rule of Satan and his minions.
KTetteh 2 years ago
that IS part of the aposticy, not doing anything agaisnt these corperations who are clearly not for our benefit. and no im not assuming i know that they are the only ones at this present age that have the technology AND have ben pushing for people to get chipped, 200 people have ben chipped so far becouse they pushed it on there employees and the elderly.
SilentPrayingmanTis 2 years ago
Just my opinion, but that is describing the Saints of the Tribulation (those who become new believers in Christ during the Tribulation and are killed). I think the Rapture will most likely be pre-trib.
empireuniverse 2 years ago
Hi friend - it is my understanding that there will not be a great revival - rather men wil repent not of their idols (Rev 9) and will beome more hostile towards God. The sainte being discussed are you and me and those living at the time of the tribulation. Pre trib frankly has no biblical support. But GOD bless you - stay close to Jesus in these last days Friend.
MichaelHodgson 2 years ago 2
this preacher forgot to mention after the signs then Jesus returned so christians, believers, the elect, the saints will go through the great tribulation. immediatelly after
rffjcorg 2 years ago
Well done. Thank you very much. GOD bless you. Keep up the good work.
MichaelHodgson 3 years ago