The reason we must admit we are powerless over Alcohol is because it alters our minds in such a way that we have no defence in this world against the evils around us. Meaning mean, nasty, greedy abusive people. Things seem to happen by default when we are stoned or drunk or living with someelses addiction.
Listen up people. Here is the deal with A.A.. You must not read the Steps you must apply them to "experience" the benefit of them. They are suggestions from people who actually tried them and found it worked for them. You have to have your own experience. It is personal, it is individual. You can not get the experience by looking to others. The best we can do is follow the suggestions take action on them and then share what we learned about ourselves with each other.
All Squabling aside. It's been a really tough week. I am struggling. I could use the extra prayers please. Things are not looking too good for me in my near future. I wish you all the best life has to offer. i have taking all your opinions into consideration. But it's not in my best interest to screw my own program up over this. In the future I do not want to become a miserable old AA man. But carry a positive message to help others who are in the dark. Again. Take care. Please pray for me. :(
@deliriousangel Not sure what you have going on, but know that we wish you nothing but the best. Hang in there, and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Mike BD
When it comes down to it. Your a fool. In the book it says this is a simple program. It does not say devote your life to make it seem impossible to work this program by propaghanda lololol
An A.A.ers favorite word: Resentment....Ever notice how they love throwing the word around? Everybody but them must have it because they can see it so easily in others. They love throwing the "keep your own side of the street clean" slogan around. Then in the next breath, they will gladly tell you about all of your resentments that you need to get rid of...lolololol
The more I look into what you have to say in your videos is you have a deep resentment towards a program trying to clean peoples lives up....You will probly relapse over this one day. You know that right? How many people can you say you've trully helped with your hatred?
@deliriousangel Ok, thanks for the heads up. Since when is telling the truth and having an opinion hating? Oh well. If you are in AA the chances are you'll relapse too - just saying. Would you be so kind as to show me some scientific, ie peer reviewed, proof that says I am likely to relapse over 'this' whatever this may be. Thanks for your comment. B l A m E (James G)
Ok so aa did not work for you and you are right there are other ways to become a useful member of society. So why don't you share with us "how" you are doing this a useful member of society I mean?
@Bonniepthree My AA experience lasted for a year. I attended at least 600 meetings during that year. I tried several groups and had four sponsors (one at a time). My sponsors disappeared or relapsed. I read the big book, 12 & 12, and As Bill Sees It between meetings. I showed up early, made coffee, cleaned up after, etc. I watched most newcomers leave. I wanted what the few with time in said they had. I saw they weren't happy, joyous,or free. I found SMARTRecovery. Adios, AA.
@ndrthrdr1 By the way, in six weeks, I'll have 3 years without a drink. Life is so much better. For those that believe in faith healing, AA might help. I didn't see that, however.
I feel compassion for those struggling with drug/alcohol problems. I want to show them that there are better ways than AA. I want to rescue them from AA. Blame feels the same way, IMO. My thanks to blamethenile for making the videos that helped me to rid myself of the indoctrination of AA, and have faith in me.
I had a strange experience today at a meeting. I just finished my step five and feel great about it. Although the people whom I met who have more sobriety seem to not get their own program themselves. This program works in my belief. I think it just needs a leader at times.
@blamethenile For me to know. Why don't you share how easy it has been for you to do it all on your own without the program. you seem to like expressing yourself like an open book. A bland one at that. Or for that matter. Why don't you tell us your story?
@deliriousangel you are in the honey moon stage. The few people who make it past 5 yrs are generally miserable and hypocritical. Find peace with God without these self centered kooks
I like reading this type of stuff from people like you. I bet you are still drinking. Going mad. Have an enormous amount of resentment and hate, and wish you were dead. Has this ever popped into your mind, "If only they would do that, i would do this" or what about, "One day im going to do that". Keep drinkin buddy and if your lucky, you'll die. Love ya work.
I saw through the bullshit, evangelical preachings of AA from the first time I stepped into a meeting. Bill W was a narcissist, failed preacher. 1930's bullshit that people buy into like the sheeple they are. Every aspect of a meeting, ritualistic prayer and hand-holding, hackneyed phrases from the so called Big Book are merely to subvert one's free will, because only almighty GOD can remove your shortcomings. AA is embraced by ego-maniacs, the weak of character and control freaks.
@blamethenile No problem. I just can't understand why there aren't more people seeing AA for the cult that it is. The truth is, that people are so beaten down and at a dead end when they come to their first meeting, they are willing to do anything anyone tells them to do. At first, I was lead around like a sheep by a guy who took me on, going to AA barbeques, countless meetings etc. After about six months though sober, without following the steps, my head was clear enough to see the cracks in AA
@blamethenile Your advertising on your videos, aren't you losing some credibility with that. Also, I thought you said that you didn't agree with the diesease concept, but your advertising a rehab that does. I guess nothings more powerful then the almighty dollar. I respected you a lot more when I thought you at least had some morals, but I guess not.
@tomhabs Are you anti-capitalism as well as pro-AA? I see a certain irony in 12-step-based treatment centres spending ad dollars on a site such as this one. I never got a real sense of respect from you, moral or otherwise. Mike
@blamethenile Your wrong about the respect. I have plenty of that even with people that I disagree with, the problem I have with you is your sarcasm and demeaning things you say about people that disagree with you. You can't say your trying to help people and then advertise for money to do it. Your now everything your trying to put down. As far as 12-step based rehabs they don't deny making money. Please show me one rehab that uses the 12 steps to make money.
@tomhabs Sarcasm, perhaps, but I genuinely don't try to demean anyone, do unto others, and so on. Do you genuinely believe that being paid for one's efforts and performing a public service are mutually exclusive? That absolutely goes against the grain of a free-market-based society. Mike
@blamethenile I do a lot of 12 step work in the largest maximum security prison in PA, I wouldn't think to get paid for it. It is also a public service. You have to be okay with what you do, personally I couldn't do it. Especially if what the advertise are selling is against what I'm trying to get acrossed. You didn't answer the part about the disease concept or rehabs that use the 12 steps to make money. Mike lets face it your going against everything you claim to believe in.
@tomhabs Umm we do not sell advertising as far as I know and if we do I have not received any of the money for it! I think because we use music in our videos Youtube are allowed to advertise on our videos for their profit, not ours. I hope that clears that up. B l A m E
@blamethenile Yes it does, not that you care, but it restored my faith in what your doing, even though I totally disagree with you. I'm surprised that more people haven't questioned you about this.
@tomhabs Fact is, I needed to speak to my partner before commenting directly on the advertising going on here. We have been solicited by Youtube to authorize revenue sharing for many of our videos, both here and on other projects, and have always declined. I didn't think he authorized these ads, but needed to be certain before responding. Having said that, I still have no personal objections for people who are paid for their work. We choose not to. Mike
@blameth Fact is! Mike you are just on some kind of Ego trip and you know it.Everything that you claim,so far is contrary to what I read,hear and understand.I do see your point about court ordered meeting's and the criminals that carry the sentence.On the side of logic, I think a Bar or Pub or alley,street corner,jail,etc,etc, would be a far more dangerous place to be.I dont know,after all you dont give me much credit for any logic I may posess.I have seen enough.Get over it Mike it's misleading
@blamethenile It saved my life is why and your misleading people without a care. All because of something that your angry about. You still have me convinced A.A. is keeping you sober.Without this mission of yours I believe you would be drunk.
@mamasboy815 Rather than asking Mike if he is drinking (a comment you posted on another video) and trying to convince him that he'd be drunk if it was not for these videos (which incidentally I produce, not him) why don't you take a good hard look at what we are saying? After all, both Mike and I listened to AA before we began to challenge it. If you have already done that then may I politely suggest you move along - AA works for you; it didn't for us. End of story. B l A m E (aka J a m e s G)
@blamethenile Let me make it clear to you! You spend hour after hour telling people That A.A. is A lie! Why dont you spend hour after hour telling what you just told me? The Truth man! I dont care what you are, the truth is all that there is! What you are doing is playing out your dislike for somthing at the cost of someone elses possible life! Offer a solution and if you cant do that friend you have nothing but a lie! Get right man!!!
@mamasboy815 Ok so let's run with this for a moment - if I don't believe in AA, I am not allowed to say so in case someone is put off by my comments? So if I decide AA is not for me, no problem, just keep quiet; is that the deal? For the record what you are effectively saying is having my own opinion may kill someone - ever stop to think what is so dangerous is a programme that requires dissenting opinion to be silenced (with guilt no less)? I hope you are well nonetheless. B l A m E
@blamethenile Opinion is not worth a grain of salt unless it is backed up with a solution! You are telling the alcoholic drug addict the same thing they have heard over and over again! Why dont you just quit! I tell you that didnt work for me! Is that keeping quiet? No, that is the truth! And to show how little it is worth you have just told everyone.That what you are doing is only spending countless hours trying to turn opinion in to fact! The truth is it didnt work for you! It did for me!
@mamasboy815 Cheap shot but amusing all the same. You seem to like to bate Mike; what if I was to say to you that I think these cheap shots reveal that you are rattled? Would you call that unfair, unkind or mean? Hmm you know how ended up doing this? I tried to prove Agent Orange wrong and ended up proving him right. Oh well. B l A m E
@blamethenile Ok lets get this straight. You have 75 video's taking cheap shots at A.A. and when I comment that what you are doing is a cheap shot based only on opinion, I am the one who is taking cheap shots. Then you say I am rattled? Go figure, I guess a scientist told you that? Get right man and stop decieving people just because it didnt work for you!
@mamasboy815 I don't have a problem with people that claim AA saved their lives - in fact I have taken a lot of flack for not doing so. That said I don't have a problem with most people in AA, but I do take exception with a programme that tells vulnerable people they'll die if they do not do the steps. I don't make that many videos anymore but I did during a time when I felt the loneliness of leaving AA - that's why I made them. All the best now, and well done. B l A m E
@mamasboy815 Rattled, and delusional. In order to have a sponsor, it is necessary to be an AA member. In order to be an AA member, one needs to have a drinking problem. I definitely do not qualify. Mike
@mamasboy815 Do you always put words in to the mouths of others? I'll let that go as I think you're genuinely passionate... Show me one peer-reviewed study that shows AA's efficacy, ie a controlled study that could be repeated under the same conditions provided the method is clearly shown. You accuse me of merely offering an opinion but actually it is science, which is about as far from opinion you can get, that I utilise. Take care, B l A m E
@mamasboy815 Where, in any of our videos, have we asserted anything for which you can provide credible contradictory evidence? Put up, or move along. Mike
@blamethenil I would say I rattled you Mike! I have without a doubt provided you with credible evidence or it wouldnt have rattled you so! When I hear thousands upon thousands of people tell me what has worked for them and then when it dont work for me I spend the rest of my life trying to prove them wrong,who is it that is rattled? Anyway I like you Mike! Like I said before we are both hardheaded S.O.B.'s. 1 more thing I have no idea who agent orange is but I suspect he is hardheaded Too. seeya
1 dilemma for AAs & stated in"AAs message"..BB p.62,"we have to quit playing God it doesnt work".ive found "some" AAs..supposedly on a 12 step programme (even when years sober) havent yet really changed this trait "within".They can be blind to it & its hurtful effects in theirs & others lives.P.62 calls it"self-will run riot".Some other AAs,lacking in esteem& still in need of recognition may be"exposing" their lack of 12 steps truly taken.i see it often..affecting AA & its PR to great detriment
Strange as it may be, paradoxicaly,i cant dispute this video.im genuinely sympathetic.The "AA message" itself, doesnt tell us theres only 1 way to sobriety...though i know some AAs do."AAs message"..BB p95 states,"if a person thinks he can do the job in some other way,encourage him to follow his conscience.P.28 BB,is CENTRAL to this.Bigshotism,spoke of in step10 in the12x12 is for AA guru types..not just newcomers.in part this is"why" tradition12 tells us to put "principles" before personalities
if this is your experience of AA,perhaps you are right in making this video. Self-will run riot in AA by some AAs,i know,can be rife. AA has 2 official brochures called 1)The AA member medication & other drugs. 2) Problems other than alcohol. Among other things they ask AA members to refrain from giving medical advice as they are not doctors.AA does not of itself say we have an illness.The Doctors opinion (2nd page) & autonomous from AA, suggests"one" explanation which AAs say makes good sense
@blamethenile your an idiot im sure that ur either not recovering (never had a problem) or your drinking...once it gets bad enough and u realize what your doing isnt working we will always welcome you back
@MrRyanesmyth Thanks for the offer, but don't hold your breath. If you are going to call people idiots, you should pay closer attention to spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Thanks for checking in, tho. Mike
Yes,AA only uses1 model.Thats why its called AA.its"ONLY"1 model in a vast sea of others is what AA is saying.AAs preamble states,AA neither endorses nor opposes any other cause.AAs true position regarding helping others to follow their conscience if they think they can do the job in some other way is pro-active.p95,28,74 of AAs message.In Dr Silkworths chapter,AAs state its"where"it takes its illness model from.it advises"as laymen our opinion means little".As such,AAs cant diagnose.Best wishes
"Yes,AA only uses1 model.Thats why its called AA."
As you can see, I already agree that AA only uses one model - the disease model...
But I fail to see why this is the reason that "it is called AA"...
In any case, this is irrelevant. My original point was that the contention of AAs that "AA does not of itself say we have an illness" is a bald faced lie...
AA endorses the disease model to the exclusion of all others...
AA says "you have an illness" loudly and explicitly...
"Thanks.Things written here are hopefully evidenced on my small youtube page.ive found source checking invaluable.Dr.Silkworths opinion states"convincing testimony must surely come from medical men".AA say in same chapter as "laymen"our opinion as to its soundness may mean little".My sight offers fullerAA sourcing on this.it be nice to know your own sourcing & perhaps i can learn more.AA works for me.ive tried some other methods long ago..but not all."
@Hammersley1967 Thats right..ive no idea why the comment disappeared from here.Yes,i tried many methods decades ago.The ones i tried didnt work for me.My point is...in keeping things "real" for me...i cant say ALL other methods dont work...because i havent tried ALL other methods. AAs position in BB (p95) is pro-active in encouraging others to find sobriety in whatever way works for them.Your contention with Dr Silkworths ideas are fine with me.However youre doing it,i hope sobrietys going well
@Hammersley1967 If youve got no real issues with AA as you say, thats great..if your deeper concerns are more to do with the medical fraternity,or their ideas that exist in the medical profession, perhaps you could contribute & benefit others by taking it up with them. id say to anyone with "any" gift at all.."utilise it dont analyse it. if youre gifted in this field, i genuinely hope you take it further for yourself...im sincere in saying that.i believe you are being sincere too.Every best wish
"If youve got no real issues with AA as you say, thats great..if your deeper concerns are more to do with the medical fraternity,or their ideas that exist in the medical profession, perhaps you could contribute & benefit others by taking it up with them."
I have...
But it always ends badly - with a doctor with a blood nose and me getting arrested... AGAIN!!!
@pianoscotskenny Silkworths theory"pathologising alcoholism"is only in part.He view is"its not entirely a problem of mental control".He suggests,the alcoholics"body"has become sick to.He thinks the body part of the illness to be"the manifestation of a physical allergy"to alcohol"..which can only trigger craving AFTER starting.The problem"begins"in the mind with the mental obsession(p30).AAs12step solution-cognitive/spiritual..we call it what we like,is centred on the mind/spirit..psychic& social
@Hammersley1967 Hi Again Hammersley.Somehow,i feel that perhaps as illogical as it could seem,i have a strange notion that maybe we're not as far apart in our views as would originally perhaps seem.it'll take me at least a few posts to answer your points. in all my points so far,the words "theory" "opinion" "belief" "view" have been referenced or used i'll deal with these in the next posts.One"key word"you begin with on your latest post& which has bearing on my reply is the word "unfortunately"
@pianoscotskenny (2).Regarding the AA 12 step solution itself, empirical "proof" surrounding physiological and/or psychological anomalies as you mention,whether important or not in satisfying my own or any persons intellect,ive found to bare no significance in achieving sobriety. "Unfortunately" proof doesnt exist you say Whether accurate or not...it does from a practical point, play no vital part in the what really matters..& thats of course "getting well" regardless of what method is used.
@pianoscotskenny However,the importance of Dr.Silkworths views on these issues,while playing no vital part in achieving recovery& not important at all as being part of the"means to an end,can still be of great importance to some.i was like this.P48 of the BB, describes 1 particular trait of "thinking" which years ago,hampered me getting a"result".it says "the practical individual nowadays is a stickler for facts & results".This was,& still can be,a facet of my nature which i try to be careful of
@pianoscotskenny As for "why" Dr Silkworth came up with his theories,i think the product of his"mind"& 37yrs experience would need to be delved into in order to know "why" he came to his conclusions. Similarly,as with professionals in all walks of life..who is to say;."why"..they or us,begin to think in particular ways.i find it interseting that scientists today such as Stephen Hawking &others..offer"theories"of all sorts that although scientifically unsubstantiated yet,are still used as"facts"
@pianoscotskenny Going back to all our dialogue so far, including this post..ive repeatedly mentioned words such as,"theory",Drs."opinion & similar. ive even referred to your own "faith & belief" in your strong convictions about alcoholism. as being ones i see you are sincere about. Perhaps one "key" to success with different models of recovery lies in an individuals "need to know" state of being..or either a "need for faith" state of being. As an AA, i neither endorse nor oppose any other cause
@pianoscotskenny With every caring feeling i have,i wish all alcoholics& addicts all the love in the world.When all said& done,the hellish existence that any alcoholic/addict has endured,or is still enduring &which i never forget was like, finding any answer at all..with any model of recovery..is in the final analysis, ALL that matters.The last page of AAs 2nd foreword says"it is our great hope that those who have "as yet" found no answer,may begin to find one in the pages of the BB. Best wishes
The reality of alcoholism is scientifically discernible and has been increasingly discerned by SOCIAL scientists over the past 50 years. Clinical researchers have repeatedly, empirically and conclusively shown alcoholism to be a socially, culturally, and psychologically caused and mediated behavioral aberration.
Meanwhile, every single biomedical investigation into a possible physiopathology of alcoholism has ended in a dead end.
The scientific jury has returned its verdict and the debate is over.
I dont have “faith and belief” in my convictions about alcoholism. “Faith and belief” are conclusions drawn on a vacuum of evidence. I have reviewed the body of evidence, and have found the methodology, data, and conclusions flawless. Perhaps you’ll wonder why this juggernaut of empirical evidence is not widely known to the public?
Herbert Fingarette (1988) answers this question in the following quote:
“No one has plotted an evil conspiracy to keep vital information secret; no one has censored information. Indeed, the scientific literature fills bookshelves. Yet to all intents and purposes, the general public has been poorly informed, misinformed, and misled. Constructs formed on the basis of social and political ideologies have been repeated so many times that we take them for self-evident truths. Data that refute the creed are ignored, condemned or spurned as nonsense”
@Hammersley1967 Yes(paradigms)..working within an accepted body of knowledge seems to prevail..until someone comes along with ideas which refute the creed.This is why Galileo& Columbus are cited examples of this inBB p51."Faith or belief" im sure,are ultimately making a"choice"to reject or believe in something that cant be proven..eg;"i love you mum".."i love you son".it cant be proven.it needs taking on"faith".As i said earlier,i hope you utilise your gifts& positively take them to the "crede"
Silkworth was the ONLY medico that proffered an "allergy" causal theory of alcoholism. However, many other physicians have postulated pathophysiological hypothesis. Nonetheless, ALL physiological theories of alcoholism remain unproved or indeed have been conclusively disproved.
My source? The entire canon of biomedical knowledge on alcoholism.
In other words, there is NO proven somatic theory of alcoholism in medical literature.
"Dr.Silkworth's opinion states 'convincing testimony must surely come from medical men' "
I beg to differ...
Medical practitioners, in their vein attempts to colonize the field of alcohology, by their ludicrous attempts to define the problem as physio-pathological, have only succeeded in obfuscating and mythologizing the exact nature of the problem...
Alcoholism is a psychic and socially born problem...
@Hammersley1967 Your absolutely entitled to differ in view. its "your view".i have no problem with this.i accept without reservation that all i have to offer anyone are my own experiences & views...just as you do.They're your viewpoints& i can see you believe in them.A great display of "faith & belief" in your own research & your own viewpoint.its genuinely...great".All that matters i think, is so long as its working for you & your happy & content..its a great result....nobody could ask for more
I checked out SMART. I like their approach. I always questioned the disease model and I know that the main reason it was adopted was so that insurance companies would pick up the tab for treatment and anytime I try to press an 'expert' in the field I get a vague answer or I get some sort of poetic answer as to the disease model. In fact in one of AA's books Bill Wilson makes a reference to underlying causes which are always skimmed over in AA meetings. I didn't know harm reduction was possible.
@edmaiello I like the SMART approach, as well, and am comfortable recommending it to anyone who believes they need a support group to become and remain abstinent. Mike
I guess you don't believe in the disease model. Do you think alcoholism is a moral failing or is it because of undealt with emotional problems. When the AA's in my life got sober I thought that the disease model was a way of taking the blame out of the equation so they would seek help. Do you think AA is like fundamental religion in that initially it turns a person on to another way of life and after they are on the right track the dogma is no longer needed?
@edmaiello I, like SMART recovery, believe addictions to be complex maladaptive behaviours. Yes, I do believe AA to be fundamentally religious in nature, but not for the reason you cited. Mike
Why have you been to thousands of meetings? I used to think that the whole disease/GOD thing was like saying 'the devil made me do it,' but I've heard from several AA members who are still sober that they used to drink to the point of blacking out even when they knew before they picked up what it would do to them, hence the notion of powerlessness. As for the people who do stop w/out a program, I've been told that those people may have been problem drinkers and not alcoholics. Peace.
@edmaiello Because I used to be an AA member. Phrases like "I have heard" and "I have been told" are examples of hearsay, and not much else. People who remain abstinent in AA do so in spite of the program, not because of it. Mike
I respect your opinion and yes most alcoholics do not make it, but this is because they do not maintain a program of recovery and allow their disease to take over. When a person comes out of rehab it is imperative that they engage in a new lifestyle with sober support and different activities. AA does not "tell someone they are powerless unless they believe in a higher power." AA asks alcoholics to ADMIT their powerlessness. This is the first step in recovery. Ever been to an open AA meeting?
@edmaiello I have been to several thousand AA meetings of all types, and stand by my partner's remarks regarding the AA spin on God and powerlessness. Posts like yours put the blamedenial in my userid, Mikeblamedenial. Thanks for stopping by. Mike
@edmaiello Yes I have been to an open AA meeting; I asked someone to join me at one a while ago because I was too embarrassed to take them to a closed one. All an open meeting does is tone down on the group speak, oh and you're less likely to hear someone state, "DO THE STEPS OR DIE!" You say AA does not tell anyone they are powerless; are you sure about that? What does Step 1 state, backed up by the slogan, "You're not here by accident"? Thanks again. B l A m E
It is interesting to me that you chose Nirvana as your soundtrack to this video because Kurt Cobain is someone whose life could have been saved by his adherince to a 12- Step program. The inevitable outcome of drug addiction is threefold: Incarceration, Insanity, or Death. Kurt Cobain was the victim of the latter two. I would implore you to educate yourself and not be so reactionary and flippant. You could start by viewing some video clips of Father Martin discussing the 12 steps.
@edmaiello I have done a little bit research - believe it or not. For your information Cobain took his life a few days after leaving rehab. Perhaps you should look into the high suicide rate amongst AA members? Telling someone they are powerless over something unless they believe in a Higher Power is a bit like putting a gun to their head. Some people are too genuine to "fake it to make it". Thanks for the comment nonetheless. B l A m E aka James G
Its fantastic how BP saves billions of lives every day. Gues how live would suck w/o cars, electric energy, chemical products etc. BP is HP. Great job BP.
I'm trying to see what your motivation for posting is and I'm really at a loss other than 'wow, look what I did!'. If you don't like or didn't like the steps, that's fine, but your post though perfectly legal free speech, is a potential killer. There is no brainwashing in AA. There is mentoring and spiritual awareness, not religion. I know this will likely not get through to you but just as AAs chairs are always open, so are their exits. Here's To Sobriety, Serenity!
@Homenchuk There is nothing BUT brainwashing in AA, from the unworkability of the steps to the self-denying religiosity, and the mentoring is generally not much more than unqualified guest appearances in peoples' lives. AA has likely killed many more drunks than our criticisms of it ever will. Mike
@zachjones225 hey Zach, guess what? you're sponsor is a drunk too! Don't put people on a pedestal, they will always dissapoint. Your sponsor is not AA. "for after all God gave us brains to use".
@blamethenile Holy Cowzers! Interpreting a conversation that didn't involve any type of personal attack and didn't even involve you as an attack on you? You are dry as the Mojave desert. Thanks for making my point for me!
@blamethenile Please accept my apologies, I was trying to reply to comments and videos posted by another member on this site with the same username as you. I'm afraid there are alot of other commenters on this site who are equally confused by two people having the same uname. Just the same you should have been able to determine that the dozens of comments directed at the Mike who has posted 74 anti-AA videos and made many comments against was not you. Nothing has been cleared up for anyone.
@recoveredperv Read our profile, and you will see that two people, James and Mike, comprise Blamethenile. We each sign our posts accordingly. I have written some of the videos currently available and respond to most of the posts. James has produced all the vids, and written the majority of them. Mike
if you had any real concept of addiction you would remove this death sentence video.
By posting this video, you give the still suffering addict his or her reason not to be willing to give AA a chance to help. Many human beings perish as a result of pure unwillingness, closed-mindedness and self dishonesty.
@MrRessorp Right, so let me get this straight; you're saying if you don't like AA, and/or don't go to meetings, and AA members think you need to, you'll die? Have I got this right? B l A m E
I am surprised at the amout of people who, hate organized religion, but renounce all contact with anyone but other 12 steppers. They are as crazy as any other religion or cult. In thier defence, the big book says that .... many of us have tried relationships, religion, and therapy to no avail.. What people fail to realize is.. those other things do, in fact, work just fine for many seekers.
@billyboy630 Where in the basic text does it tell you that it is the only way? I believe that it says "when at the end of the road when we find that nothing else has works" Where in there does it say that this is the only way. Now RR it says that the 12 steps doesn't work and we do. Don't get confused.
ok point taken, but every person in AA I ever encountered has told me if you drink your an alcoholic, and the only answer is to never drink again. But if thats what the text says then I stand corrected, perhaps some of the followers would be wise to remember what the text says, but that goes for any organization, I wouldnt condem for a few memebers
@billyboy630 well then they are misleading people. The basic text talks about the obsession and compulsion to drink or use. There are a few misnomers that flies around the rooms and that is one. There is a information pamphlet that has questions to helps you to determine. I believe that there are more people that cannot handle their drinking habbits. I don't believe that everyone who drinks has that issue.
@billyboy630 Oh also I heard do the steps or die also. Listening more to those people they ment a spiritual death. The rooms are for some people and not others, I can say that anyone who comes in and works steps it changes their outlook on life.
@billyboy630 AA simply states "half messures availed of nothing". Meaning, if you're gonna do the fucking program, do it right, to the best of your ability : )). It's progress, not perfection. It's about doing your best and accepting the outcome regardless.
blamethenile: If you or others don't like 12 steps, don't come. If you feel so strong as too criticize it in video, please question your motive (denile?)
@blamethenile : how elementary school! Say the opposite that i just said. Amazing! Don't try to address any of my comments, just shut me down. lol The point is, this is publicly blasting something I go to by choice just as any other member does. You chose not to go, I respect that. You also chose to make a vid that may convince someone who needs to get help (any help) from trying one proven method. i don't respect that. Your vid is 'publicly' posted. AA is a private meeting. Again, your motive?
@Homenchuk You didn't comment, but rather, posted the same tired rhetoric and attacks, all of which we have addressed in vids and posts countless times before. The only things proven in AA are its poor success rates and self-denying religiosity. If you want to worship at the Church of Powerlessness, that is your business. We believe it is a poor approach to a genuine problem, and enjoys undeserved praise and public goodwill, and does more damage than it repairs. Hence, the vids. Mike
@blamethenile : Can you not sum up 'YOUR' personal reasons for being so anti AA? This is all I ask. Is it HP, fellowship, meetings, the steps? The video does not cover YOUR perspective. I'm asking person to person, so to speak. Inwardly, I am critical of some aspects of AA, proving my individuality is not threatened. How about yours? My praises and gratitude (a word used centuries before AA) outweigh my criticisms. Please try to answer my q as frankly and honestly as you can.
@Homenchuk Hello, thank you for your comments - Jimmy here, and whilst I am under no obligation to answer your questions, what I will say is that telling people they are powerless over alcohol and that if they do not do the steps, they'll die does it for me. Making them do step one before anything is potentially lethal if that is all they do and then relapse for whatever reason. Take care now. B l A m E REPOST FOR EDIT - apologies
@blamethenile @ Jimmy: yes, there are aspects that bother me. I attribute most to when AA was written, how times/addictions have changed and also Bill & Bob using neo-Christian wording etc. I debate this with oldtimers often. but as outdated as some of it may seem, the substance is not the problem so much as how I deal with my emotions. The ground work done there has been copied and people are charged large sums for something they can get for free. Remember, many are on the bottom financially.
@Homenchuk PS I tried to challenge AA from the inside - ouch. If you want to read more about the threats I received, and other things, send me a PM and I'll link you to a back door into my old website, Blamedenial. B l A m E
@Homenchuk Some of the problems I have with AA include its lack of exit strategy, self-denying religiosity, horrendously low success rates, defeatist doctrines of surrender and acceptance, unqualified cadre who practice psychology and problem-solving based on narrow and unhelpful dogma, lack of harm reduction approaches, reliance upon coercion to fill chairs, non-adherence to its own traditions, rigidity, and largely unworkable, unhelpful steps. Hope I made my motivations more clear. Mike
@blamethenile : Of course there is failure, of course it's not perfect. I never take anything at face value and if/when the BB thumpers start yapping, I listen but know my program is not ALL ABOUT the first 100 but more about the next million, what worked and what didn't work. That blindness of AA bothers me but my sponsor, my fellows IN MY STEP GROUP, and I acknowledge the imperfections and seek what works and if that involves outside help, well certainly. We will never agree here. Be well Sir!
@Homenchuk If AA were a matter of discarding that which does not work, and adopting that which does, it would scarcely resemble its present form. Mired in the doctrine of a failed evangelical movement of the early 1900's, it steadfastly refuses to conduct its own fearless and searching inventory of its own moral and methodological shortcomings. I suspect that on a line-by-line analysis, you and I would agree upon much more regarding AA than you might suspect. Take care, Mike
@blamethenile LOL Dude, you are hilarious! Actually, you're just another stupid junkie who has decided to think his way out of recovery, afraid to do the real work of introspection and being of service. It's a lie to you but to the 30 million worldwide members who have reclaimed their place among the living and maintain real relationships with families it is the only truth. Go take another hit so you can continue to spout your "truth".
@blamethenile an elementary school level of research shows that 23 million copies of just the fourth edition have been sold in just english it is also printed in French and Spanish. But I'm sure that jumping to conclusions without prior investigation is your strength. Mike, you have uploaded over seventy anti-12 step videos and yet you state "I'm not angry". I guess rigorous honesty was a hurdle you were unable to breach.
The reason we must admit we are powerless over Alcohol is because it alters our minds in such a way that we have no defence in this world against the evils around us. Meaning mean, nasty, greedy abusive people. Things seem to happen by default when we are stoned or drunk or living with someelses addiction.
Bonniepthree 3 months ago
Listen up people. Here is the deal with A.A.. You must not read the Steps you must apply them to "experience" the benefit of them. They are suggestions from people who actually tried them and found it worked for them. You have to have your own experience. It is personal, it is individual. You can not get the experience by looking to others. The best we can do is follow the suggestions take action on them and then share what we learned about ourselves with each other.
Bonniepthree 3 months ago
fklsdkflsdkflsdkfldks
Bonniepthree 3 months ago
Seems like all odds are against me at the moment. Like there is a war waging inside me between good and evil. Hasn"t been easy Mike
deliriousangel 5 months ago
All Squabling aside. It's been a really tough week. I am struggling. I could use the extra prayers please. Things are not looking too good for me in my near future. I wish you all the best life has to offer. i have taking all your opinions into consideration. But it's not in my best interest to screw my own program up over this. In the future I do not want to become a miserable old AA man. But carry a positive message to help others who are in the dark. Again. Take care. Please pray for me. :(
deliriousangel 5 months ago
@deliriousangel Not sure what you have going on, but know that we wish you nothing but the best. Hang in there, and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Mike BD
blamethenile 5 months ago
When it comes down to it. Your a fool. In the book it says this is a simple program. It does not say devote your life to make it seem impossible to work this program by propaghanda lololol
deliriousangel 6 months ago
@deliriousangel Delirious, indeed. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
I have been able to see resentment in others I was blind to before. Even helped people who are not in the program.
deliriousangel 6 months ago
An A.A.ers favorite word: Resentment....Ever notice how they love throwing the word around? Everybody but them must have it because they can see it so easily in others. They love throwing the "keep your own side of the street clean" slogan around. Then in the next breath, they will gladly tell you about all of your resentments that you need to get rid of...lolololol
riptorn311 6 months ago
The more I look into what you have to say in your videos is you have a deep resentment towards a program trying to clean peoples lives up....You will probly relapse over this one day. You know that right? How many people can you say you've trully helped with your hatred?
deliriousangel 6 months ago
@deliriousangel Ok, thanks for the heads up. Since when is telling the truth and having an opinion hating? Oh well. If you are in AA the chances are you'll relapse too - just saying. Would you be so kind as to show me some scientific, ie peer reviewed, proof that says I am likely to relapse over 'this' whatever this may be. Thanks for your comment. B l A m E (James G)
blamethenile 6 months ago
@deliriousangel Another AA psychologist and soothsayer. Don't hold your breath on the relapse front. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
I still don't believe Mike BD is a true alcoholic.... :S
deliriousangel 6 months ago
@deliriousangel I'm an ex-problem drinker. Big difference. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago
Ok so aa did not work for you and you are right there are other ways to become a useful member of society. So why don't you share with us "how" you are doing this a useful member of society I mean?
Bonniepthree 8 months ago
@Bonniepthree My AA experience lasted for a year. I attended at least 600 meetings during that year. I tried several groups and had four sponsors (one at a time). My sponsors disappeared or relapsed. I read the big book, 12 & 12, and As Bill Sees It between meetings. I showed up early, made coffee, cleaned up after, etc. I watched most newcomers leave. I wanted what the few with time in said they had. I saw they weren't happy, joyous,or free. I found SMARTRecovery. Adios, AA.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 By the way, in six weeks, I'll have 3 years without a drink. Life is so much better. For those that believe in faith healing, AA might help. I didn't see that, however.
I feel compassion for those struggling with drug/alcohol problems. I want to show them that there are better ways than AA. I want to rescue them from AA. Blame feels the same way, IMO. My thanks to blamethenile for making the videos that helped me to rid myself of the indoctrination of AA, and have faith in me.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago in playlist blamethenile
I had a strange experience today at a meeting. I just finished my step five and feel great about it. Although the people whom I met who have more sobriety seem to not get their own program themselves. This program works in my belief. I think it just needs a leader at times.
deliriousangel 9 months ago
@deliriousangel You did your fifth step in front of a meeting? Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago 3
@blamethenile For me to know. Why don't you share how easy it has been for you to do it all on your own without the program. you seem to like expressing yourself like an open book. A bland one at that. Or for that matter. Why don't you tell us your story?
deliriousangel 8 months ago
@deliriousangel you are in the honey moon stage. The few people who make it past 5 yrs are generally miserable and hypocritical. Find peace with God without these self centered kooks
karmalevel 7 months ago
I was in AA for two years and had AA friends for over 20 years. I finally
left AA for good when I saw that my AA friends lives were not getting
any better. After 20 years "in the program" they were the same selfish,
immature people. They never grew up. Stay away from this program. It's
bullshit. You have the strenght to find your own way. Oh, and BTW, I haven't
had a drink in over 30 years.
TheSt1234 10 months ago 2
@TheSt1234 Congrats on the time, and the clarity of thought. Mike BD
blamethenile 10 months ago
@TheSt1234 yep so true!!! majorly screwed up peeps!!
karmalevel 7 months ago
We'll be here when you are ready (if you want what we have and if you live long enough).
jhnstarke 10 months ago
@jhnstarke Nope, I don't want what you have, and won't be coming back. Mike BD
blamethenile 10 months ago
Keep coming back.
jhnstarke 10 months ago
@jhnstarke Face-to-face true believers stopped saying that to us many years ago. Mike
blamethenile 10 months ago
I like reading this type of stuff from people like you. I bet you are still drinking. Going mad. Have an enormous amount of resentment and hate, and wish you were dead. Has this ever popped into your mind, "If only they would do that, i would do this" or what about, "One day im going to do that". Keep drinkin buddy and if your lucky, you'll die. Love ya work.
TrentusMaximus78 11 months ago
@TrentusMaximus78 Thank you for the good wishes and positive reaffirmations. People like you inspire us to keep up the work we do. Mike BD
blamethenile 11 months ago
What do the AA bashers think is the real motive of AA? I dont get the hatred. I loved the song on this clip though. Nirvana FTW!
yield269 11 months ago
@edmaiello
You are wrong, to put it bluntly.
WE were Powerless, meaning THEY, & who am I to quistion Them.
They have "recovered", I am just a lil´ole looser boozer.
This is the WALL you are up against when you first come to AA &
to a rehab-center. Its Me against Them. We are Right You are Wrong
What does this mean ?: “and allow their *disease* to take over”.
Does it mean a *Demon* has taken over ?
Does it mean *Satan* has taken over ?
Some personallity ? Or maybe *Mr.Hyde* ?
IGOROZKARSKY 1 year ago
I saw through the bullshit, evangelical preachings of AA from the first time I stepped into a meeting. Bill W was a narcissist, failed preacher. 1930's bullshit that people buy into like the sheeple they are. Every aspect of a meeting, ritualistic prayer and hand-holding, hackneyed phrases from the so called Big Book are merely to subvert one's free will, because only almighty GOD can remove your shortcomings. AA is embraced by ego-maniacs, the weak of character and control freaks.
CHHSE1986 1 year ago 2
@CHHSE1986 I suspect that is the common reaction of those exposed to AA, since so many don't stay very long. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile No problem. I just can't understand why there aren't more people seeing AA for the cult that it is. The truth is, that people are so beaten down and at a dead end when they come to their first meeting, they are willing to do anything anyone tells them to do. At first, I was lead around like a sheep by a guy who took me on, going to AA barbeques, countless meetings etc. After about six months though sober, without following the steps, my head was clear enough to see the cracks in AA
CHHSE1986 1 year ago
wow. if you change the words, the meaning changes too! brilliant.
2008goo 1 year ago
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. :)
MikeDSept21 1 year ago
@MikeDSept21 Absolutely. With over seventy videos currently on-line, there is something for just about everyone. Thanks for the support. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@MikeDSept21 delusional Kool Aid drinker. AA is mind control. Period. I saw through it day one.
CHHSE1986 1 year ago
love it!!!
Jkelquedi 1 year ago
@Jkelquedi Thanks. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
been to a few meetings...know a lot of people in the program that make it work for them....however....I DO see the point here, and its kinda true.
alpinestar137 1 year ago
@alpinestar137 We have been to a few meetings, as well, and know very few who derive genuine long-term benefit from AA participation. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Your advertising on your videos, aren't you losing some credibility with that. Also, I thought you said that you didn't agree with the diesease concept, but your advertising a rehab that does. I guess nothings more powerful then the almighty dollar. I respected you a lot more when I thought you at least had some morals, but I guess not.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Are you anti-capitalism as well as pro-AA? I see a certain irony in 12-step-based treatment centres spending ad dollars on a site such as this one. I never got a real sense of respect from you, moral or otherwise. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Your wrong about the respect. I have plenty of that even with people that I disagree with, the problem I have with you is your sarcasm and demeaning things you say about people that disagree with you. You can't say your trying to help people and then advertise for money to do it. Your now everything your trying to put down. As far as 12-step based rehabs they don't deny making money. Please show me one rehab that uses the 12 steps to make money.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Sarcasm, perhaps, but I genuinely don't try to demean anyone, do unto others, and so on. Do you genuinely believe that being paid for one's efforts and performing a public service are mutually exclusive? That absolutely goes against the grain of a free-market-based society. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile I do a lot of 12 step work in the largest maximum security prison in PA, I wouldn't think to get paid for it. It is also a public service. You have to be okay with what you do, personally I couldn't do it. Especially if what the advertise are selling is against what I'm trying to get acrossed. You didn't answer the part about the disease concept or rehabs that use the 12 steps to make money. Mike lets face it your going against everything you claim to believe in.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Umm we do not sell advertising as far as I know and if we do I have not received any of the money for it! I think because we use music in our videos Youtube are allowed to advertise on our videos for their profit, not ours. I hope that clears that up. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Yes it does, not that you care, but it restored my faith in what your doing, even though I totally disagree with you. I'm surprised that more people haven't questioned you about this.
tomhabs 1 year ago
@tomhabs Fact is, I needed to speak to my partner before commenting directly on the advertising going on here. We have been solicited by Youtube to authorize revenue sharing for many of our videos, both here and on other projects, and have always declined. I didn't think he authorized these ads, but needed to be certain before responding. Having said that, I still have no personal objections for people who are paid for their work. We choose not to. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blameth Fact is! Mike you are just on some kind of Ego trip and you know it.Everything that you claim,so far is contrary to what I read,hear and understand.I do see your point about court ordered meeting's and the criminals that carry the sentence.On the side of logic, I think a Bar or Pub or alley,street corner,jail,etc,etc, would be a far more dangerous place to be.I dont know,after all you dont give me much credit for any logic I may posess.I have seen enough.Get over it Mike it's misleading
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Why so personal? Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile It saved my life is why and your misleading people without a care. All because of something that your angry about. You still have me convinced A.A. is keeping you sober.Without this mission of yours I believe you would be drunk.
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 You devote entirely too much thought to drinking. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Oh contrare.How many of these video's do you have? Go to a meeting Mike and get over it already!!! lololol.
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Keep watching until you find one you like. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Rather than asking Mike if he is drinking (a comment you posted on another video) and trying to convince him that he'd be drunk if it was not for these videos (which incidentally I produce, not him) why don't you take a good hard look at what we are saying? After all, both Mike and I listened to AA before we began to challenge it. If you have already done that then may I politely suggest you move along - AA works for you; it didn't for us. End of story. B l A m E (aka J a m e s G)
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Let me make it clear to you! You spend hour after hour telling people That A.A. is A lie! Why dont you spend hour after hour telling what you just told me? The Truth man! I dont care what you are, the truth is all that there is! What you are doing is playing out your dislike for somthing at the cost of someone elses possible life! Offer a solution and if you cant do that friend you have nothing but a lie! Get right man!!!
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Ok so let's run with this for a moment - if I don't believe in AA, I am not allowed to say so in case someone is put off by my comments? So if I decide AA is not for me, no problem, just keep quiet; is that the deal? For the record what you are effectively saying is having my own opinion may kill someone - ever stop to think what is so dangerous is a programme that requires dissenting opinion to be silenced (with guilt no less)? I hope you are well nonetheless. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Opinion is not worth a grain of salt unless it is backed up with a solution! You are telling the alcoholic drug addict the same thing they have heard over and over again! Why dont you just quit! I tell you that didnt work for me! Is that keeping quiet? No, that is the truth! And to show how little it is worth you have just told everyone.That what you are doing is only spending countless hours trying to turn opinion in to fact! The truth is it didnt work for you! It did for me!
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 And for the record.I knew Mike had a sponcer!
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Cheap shot but amusing all the same. You seem to like to bate Mike; what if I was to say to you that I think these cheap shots reveal that you are rattled? Would you call that unfair, unkind or mean? Hmm you know how ended up doing this? I tried to prove Agent Orange wrong and ended up proving him right. Oh well. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Ok lets get this straight. You have 75 video's taking cheap shots at A.A. and when I comment that what you are doing is a cheap shot based only on opinion, I am the one who is taking cheap shots. Then you say I am rattled? Go figure, I guess a scientist told you that? Get right man and stop decieving people just because it didnt work for you!
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 I don't have a problem with people that claim AA saved their lives - in fact I have taken a lot of flack for not doing so. That said I don't have a problem with most people in AA, but I do take exception with a programme that tells vulnerable people they'll die if they do not do the steps. I don't make that many videos anymore but I did during a time when I felt the loneliness of leaving AA - that's why I made them. All the best now, and well done. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Thankyou for being honest!
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 This is to B I A m E
mamasboy815 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Yes, I would say you are rattled. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Rattled, and delusional. In order to have a sponsor, it is necessary to be an AA member. In order to be an AA member, one needs to have a drinking problem. I definitely do not qualify. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Do you always put words in to the mouths of others? I'll let that go as I think you're genuinely passionate... Show me one peer-reviewed study that shows AA's efficacy, ie a controlled study that could be repeated under the same conditions provided the method is clearly shown. You accuse me of merely offering an opinion but actually it is science, which is about as far from opinion you can get, that I utilise. Take care, B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@mamasboy815 Where, in any of our videos, have we asserted anything for which you can provide credible contradictory evidence? Put up, or move along. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenil I would say I rattled you Mike! I have without a doubt provided you with credible evidence or it wouldnt have rattled you so! When I hear thousands upon thousands of people tell me what has worked for them and then when it dont work for me I spend the rest of my life trying to prove them wrong,who is it that is rattled? Anyway I like you Mike! Like I said before we are both hardheaded S.O.B.'s. 1 more thing I have no idea who agent orange is but I suspect he is hardheaded Too. seeya
mamasboy815 1 year ago
I hope that this video hasnt changed anyones mind about seeking recovery...
MrRyanesmyth 1 year ago
@MrRyanesmyth Me, too. People who need help should seek it. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
1 dilemma for AAs & stated in"AAs message"..BB p.62,"we have to quit playing God it doesnt work".ive found "some" AAs..supposedly on a 12 step programme (even when years sober) havent yet really changed this trait "within".They can be blind to it & its hurtful effects in theirs & others lives.P.62 calls it"self-will run riot".Some other AAs,lacking in esteem& still in need of recognition may be"exposing" their lack of 12 steps truly taken.i see it often..affecting AA & its PR to great detriment
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
Strange as it may be, paradoxicaly,i cant dispute this video.im genuinely sympathetic.The "AA message" itself, doesnt tell us theres only 1 way to sobriety...though i know some AAs do."AAs message"..BB p95 states,"if a person thinks he can do the job in some other way,encourage him to follow his conscience.P.28 BB,is CENTRAL to this.Bigshotism,spoke of in step10 in the12x12 is for AA guru types..not just newcomers.in part this is"why" tradition12 tells us to put "principles" before personalities
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
if this is your experience of AA,perhaps you are right in making this video. Self-will run riot in AA by some AAs,i know,can be rife. AA has 2 official brochures called 1)The AA member medication & other drugs. 2) Problems other than alcohol. Among other things they ask AA members to refrain from giving medical advice as they are not doctors.AA does not of itself say we have an illness.The Doctors opinion (2nd page) & autonomous from AA, suggests"one" explanation which AAs say makes good sense
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny Thanks for the post. I am betting that few AA members, past or present, have ever seen either brochure. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile your an idiot im sure that ur either not recovering (never had a problem) or your drinking...once it gets bad enough and u realize what your doing isnt working we will always welcome you back
MrRyanesmyth 1 year ago
@MrRyanesmyth Thanks for the offer, but don't hold your breath. If you are going to call people idiots, you should pay closer attention to spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Thanks for checking in, tho. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
"The Doctors opinion (2nd page) & autonomous from AA, suggests"one" explanation which AAs say makes good sense"
This is the ONLY explanation of of alcoholism in the AA literature...
The only explanation of literally hundreds of theories of alcoholism...
The only one forwarded and the only one "which AAs say makes good sense"...
Moreover, the only theory that the AA ideology is in concert with...
And you seriously contend that "AA does not of itself say we have an illness"?
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
Comment removed
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
Yes,AA only uses1 model.Thats why its called AA.its"ONLY"1 model in a vast sea of others is what AA is saying.AAs preamble states,AA neither endorses nor opposes any other cause.AAs true position regarding helping others to follow their conscience if they think they can do the job in some other way is pro-active.p95,28,74 of AAs message.In Dr Silkworths chapter,AAs state its"where"it takes its illness model from.it advises"as laymen our opinion means little".As such,AAs cant diagnose.Best wishes
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pianoscotskenny
"Yes,AA only uses1 model.Thats why its called AA."
As you can see, I already agree that AA only uses one model - the disease model...
But I fail to see why this is the reason that "it is called AA"...
In any case, this is irrelevant. My original point was that the contention of AAs that "AA does not of itself say we have an illness" is a bald faced lie...
AA endorses the disease model to the exclusion of all others...
AA says "you have an illness" loudly and explicitly...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(1)
You posted:
"Thanks.Things written here are hopefully evidenced on my small youtube page.ive found source checking invaluable.Dr.Silkworths opinion states"convincing testimony must surely come from medical men".AA say in same chapter as "laymen"our opinion as to its soundness may mean little".My sight offers fullerAA sourcing on this.it be nice to know your own sourcing & perhaps i can learn more.AA works for me.ive tried some other methods long ago..but not all."
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Thats right..ive no idea why the comment disappeared from here.Yes,i tried many methods decades ago.The ones i tried didnt work for me.My point is...in keeping things "real" for me...i cant say ALL other methods dont work...because i havent tried ALL other methods. AAs position in BB (p95) is pro-active in encouraging others to find sobriety in whatever way works for them.Your contention with Dr Silkworths ideas are fine with me.However youre doing it,i hope sobrietys going well
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
My beef is not with AA per se...
My beef is with the medical fraternity's unscientific mythologizing of alcoholism...
I also have an issue with AA's deference to bio-medicine, when AA itself is far better situated and qualified to comment on alcoholism...
Silkworth himself was only ONE physician in a long chronology of physicians who have pathologized alcoholism...
If alcoholism is physiological, then why are the majority of treatments (including AA) psychosocial in nature?
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 If youve got no real issues with AA as you say, thats great..if your deeper concerns are more to do with the medical fraternity,or their ideas that exist in the medical profession, perhaps you could contribute & benefit others by taking it up with them. id say to anyone with "any" gift at all.."utilise it dont analyse it. if youre gifted in this field, i genuinely hope you take it further for yourself...im sincere in saying that.i believe you are being sincere too.Every best wish
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
"If youve got no real issues with AA as you say, thats great..if your deeper concerns are more to do with the medical fraternity,or their ideas that exist in the medical profession, perhaps you could contribute & benefit others by taking it up with them."
I have...
But it always ends badly - with a doctor with a blood nose and me getting arrested... AGAIN!!!
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny Silkworths theory"pathologising alcoholism"is only in part.He view is"its not entirely a problem of mental control".He suggests,the alcoholics"body"has become sick to.He thinks the body part of the illness to be"the manifestation of a physical allergy"to alcohol"..which can only trigger craving AFTER starting.The problem"begins"in the mind with the mental obsession(p30).AAs12step solution-cognitive/spiritual..we call it what we like,is centred on the mind/spirit..psychic& social
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
"He suggests,the alcoholics"body"has become sick to.He thinks the body part of the illness to be"the manifestation of a physical allergy"to alcohol" "
Unfortunately, there was not a single shred of evidence that supported his contention that:
(a) there is a physiological anomaly exclusively endemic to alcoholics and
(b) there is a psychological anomaly exclusively endemic to alcoholics
Silkworth had NO scientific basis upon which to make his claims. So why did he make them?
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Hi Again Hammersley.Somehow,i feel that perhaps as illogical as it could seem,i have a strange notion that maybe we're not as far apart in our views as would originally perhaps seem.it'll take me at least a few posts to answer your points. in all my points so far,the words "theory" "opinion" "belief" "view" have been referenced or used i'll deal with these in the next posts.One"key word"you begin with on your latest post& which has bearing on my reply is the word "unfortunately"
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny (2).Regarding the AA 12 step solution itself, empirical "proof" surrounding physiological and/or psychological anomalies as you mention,whether important or not in satisfying my own or any persons intellect,ive found to bare no significance in achieving sobriety. "Unfortunately" proof doesnt exist you say Whether accurate or not...it does from a practical point, play no vital part in the what really matters..& thats of course "getting well" regardless of what method is used.
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny However,the importance of Dr.Silkworths views on these issues,while playing no vital part in achieving recovery& not important at all as being part of the"means to an end,can still be of great importance to some.i was like this.P48 of the BB, describes 1 particular trait of "thinking" which years ago,hampered me getting a"result".it says "the practical individual nowadays is a stickler for facts & results".This was,& still can be,a facet of my nature which i try to be careful of
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny As for "why" Dr Silkworth came up with his theories,i think the product of his"mind"& 37yrs experience would need to be delved into in order to know "why" he came to his conclusions. Similarly,as with professionals in all walks of life..who is to say;."why"..they or us,begin to think in particular ways.i find it interseting that scientists today such as Stephen Hawking &others..offer"theories"of all sorts that although scientifically unsubstantiated yet,are still used as"facts"
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny Going back to all our dialogue so far, including this post..ive repeatedly mentioned words such as,"theory",Drs."opinion & similar. ive even referred to your own "faith & belief" in your strong convictions about alcoholism. as being ones i see you are sincere about. Perhaps one "key" to success with different models of recovery lies in an individuals "need to know" state of being..or either a "need for faith" state of being. As an AA, i neither endorse nor oppose any other cause
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny With every caring feeling i have,i wish all alcoholics& addicts all the love in the world.When all said& done,the hellish existence that any alcoholic/addict has endured,or is still enduring &which i never forget was like, finding any answer at all..with any model of recovery..is in the final analysis, ALL that matters.The last page of AAs 2nd foreword says"it is our great hope that those who have "as yet" found no answer,may begin to find one in the pages of the BB. Best wishes
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(a)
I guess what i find unnerving is that the opinion of "medical men" has been given great credence and an explicit superiority over those of laymen...
In fact, as I have repeatedly mentioned, the "doctor's opinion" has only served to obscure the reality of alcohol problems...
You see, the clinical studies since the 1960s have co0nclusively debunked "the doctors' (plural) opinion"...
In short, alcoholism is no longer a "cunning, baffling, and powerful" phenomenon...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(b)
The reality of alcoholism is scientifically discernible and has been increasingly discerned by SOCIAL scientists over the past 50 years. Clinical researchers have repeatedly, empirically and conclusively shown alcoholism to be a socially, culturally, and psychologically caused and mediated behavioral aberration.
Meanwhile, every single biomedical investigation into a possible physiopathology of alcoholism has ended in a dead end.
At some point, we have to face the truth.
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(c)
The scientific jury has returned its verdict and the debate is over.
I dont have “faith and belief” in my convictions about alcoholism. “Faith and belief” are conclusions drawn on a vacuum of evidence. I have reviewed the body of evidence, and have found the methodology, data, and conclusions flawless. Perhaps you’ll wonder why this juggernaut of empirical evidence is not widely known to the public?
Herbert Fingarette (1988) answers this question in the following quote:
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(d)
“No one has plotted an evil conspiracy to keep vital information secret; no one has censored information. Indeed, the scientific literature fills bookshelves. Yet to all intents and purposes, the general public has been poorly informed, misinformed, and misled. Constructs formed on the basis of social and political ideologies have been repeated so many times that we take them for self-evident truths. Data that refute the creed are ignored, condemned or spurned as nonsense”
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Yes(paradigms)..working within an accepted body of knowledge seems to prevail..until someone comes along with ideas which refute the creed.This is why Galileo& Columbus are cited examples of this inBB p51."Faith or belief" im sure,are ultimately making a"choice"to reject or believe in something that cant be proven..eg;"i love you mum".."i love you son".it cant be proven.it needs taking on"faith".As i said earlier,i hope you utilise your gifts& positively take them to the "crede"
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(2)
But it didn't show on this thread.
Silkworth was the ONLY medico that proffered an "allergy" causal theory of alcoholism. However, many other physicians have postulated pathophysiological hypothesis. Nonetheless, ALL physiological theories of alcoholism remain unproved or indeed have been conclusively disproved.
My source? The entire canon of biomedical knowledge on alcoholism.
In other words, there is NO proven somatic theory of alcoholism in medical literature.
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(3)
So, as far as:
"Dr.Silkworth's opinion states 'convincing testimony must surely come from medical men' "
I beg to differ...
Medical practitioners, in their vein attempts to colonize the field of alcohology, by their ludicrous attempts to define the problem as physio-pathological, have only succeeded in obfuscating and mythologizing the exact nature of the problem...
Alcoholism is a psychic and socially born problem...
It has NOTHING to do with physiology...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Your absolutely entitled to differ in view. its "your view".i have no problem with this.i accept without reservation that all i have to offer anyone are my own experiences & views...just as you do.They're your viewpoints& i can see you believe in them.A great display of "faith & belief" in your own research & your own viewpoint.its genuinely...great".All that matters i think, is so long as its working for you & your happy & content..its a great result....nobody could ask for more
pianoscotskenny 1 year ago
@pianoscotskenny
(4)
So as "medical men their opinion as to it's soundness DEFINITELY means little."
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
I checked out SMART. I like their approach. I always questioned the disease model and I know that the main reason it was adopted was so that insurance companies would pick up the tab for treatment and anytime I try to press an 'expert' in the field I get a vague answer or I get some sort of poetic answer as to the disease model. In fact in one of AA's books Bill Wilson makes a reference to underlying causes which are always skimmed over in AA meetings. I didn't know harm reduction was possible.
edmaiello 1 year ago
@edmaiello I like the SMART approach, as well, and am comfortable recommending it to anyone who believes they need a support group to become and remain abstinent. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
I guess you don't believe in the disease model. Do you think alcoholism is a moral failing or is it because of undealt with emotional problems. When the AA's in my life got sober I thought that the disease model was a way of taking the blame out of the equation so they would seek help. Do you think AA is like fundamental religion in that initially it turns a person on to another way of life and after they are on the right track the dogma is no longer needed?
edmaiello 1 year ago
@edmaiello I, like SMART recovery, believe addictions to be complex maladaptive behaviours. Yes, I do believe AA to be fundamentally religious in nature, but not for the reason you cited. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
Why have you been to thousands of meetings? I used to think that the whole disease/GOD thing was like saying 'the devil made me do it,' but I've heard from several AA members who are still sober that they used to drink to the point of blacking out even when they knew before they picked up what it would do to them, hence the notion of powerlessness. As for the people who do stop w/out a program, I've been told that those people may have been problem drinkers and not alcoholics. Peace.
edmaiello 1 year ago
@edmaiello Because I used to be an AA member. Phrases like "I have heard" and "I have been told" are examples of hearsay, and not much else. People who remain abstinent in AA do so in spite of the program, not because of it. Mike
mikeblamedenial 1 year ago
I respect your opinion and yes most alcoholics do not make it, but this is because they do not maintain a program of recovery and allow their disease to take over. When a person comes out of rehab it is imperative that they engage in a new lifestyle with sober support and different activities. AA does not "tell someone they are powerless unless they believe in a higher power." AA asks alcoholics to ADMIT their powerlessness. This is the first step in recovery. Ever been to an open AA meeting?
edmaiello 1 year ago
@edmaiello I have been to several thousand AA meetings of all types, and stand by my partner's remarks regarding the AA spin on God and powerlessness. Posts like yours put the blamedenial in my userid, Mikeblamedenial. Thanks for stopping by. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@edmaiello Yes I have been to an open AA meeting; I asked someone to join me at one a while ago because I was too embarrassed to take them to a closed one. All an open meeting does is tone down on the group speak, oh and you're less likely to hear someone state, "DO THE STEPS OR DIE!" You say AA does not tell anyone they are powerless; are you sure about that? What does Step 1 state, backed up by the slogan, "You're not here by accident"? Thanks again. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
It is interesting to me that you chose Nirvana as your soundtrack to this video because Kurt Cobain is someone whose life could have been saved by his adherince to a 12- Step program. The inevitable outcome of drug addiction is threefold: Incarceration, Insanity, or Death. Kurt Cobain was the victim of the latter two. I would implore you to educate yourself and not be so reactionary and flippant. You could start by viewing some video clips of Father Martin discussing the 12 steps.
edmaiello 1 year ago
@edmaiello I have done a little bit research - believe it or not. For your information Cobain took his life a few days after leaving rehab. Perhaps you should look into the high suicide rate amongst AA members? Telling someone they are powerless over something unless they believe in a Higher Power is a bit like putting a gun to their head. Some people are too genuine to "fake it to make it". Thanks for the comment nonetheless. B l A m E aka James G
blamethenile 1 year ago
This is a harmful video.It is malicious.
juniormcfadden 1 year ago
@juniormcfadden haha, especially when it criticizes the wrong ideology. They aught to censor it ;)
AzzholesAnonymous 1 year ago
I don't read videos!
t1guy 1 year ago
Its fantastic how BP saves billions of lives every day. Gues how live would suck w/o cars, electric energy, chemical products etc. BP is HP. Great job BP.
andreasheinz 1 year ago
works for me
masterveach 1 year ago
Comment removed
Soberkin 1 year ago
I'm trying to see what your motivation for posting is and I'm really at a loss other than 'wow, look what I did!'. If you don't like or didn't like the steps, that's fine, but your post though perfectly legal free speech, is a potential killer. There is no brainwashing in AA. There is mentoring and spiritual awareness, not religion. I know this will likely not get through to you but just as AAs chairs are always open, so are their exits. Here's To Sobriety, Serenity!
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk There is nothing BUT brainwashing in AA, from the unworkability of the steps to the self-denying religiosity, and the mentoring is generally not much more than unqualified guest appearances in peoples' lives. AA has likely killed many more drunks than our criticisms of it ever will. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@ Homenchuk /watch?v=K_rE-p9fgIM
WhatSayestThou 1 year ago
@Homenchuk but when my sponsor says to make AA #1 in my life, and if my wife doesn't understand leave her...i start to doubt AA's credibility
zachjones225 1 year ago
@zachjones225 hey Zach, guess what? you're sponsor is a drunk too! Don't put people on a pedestal, they will always dissapoint. Your sponsor is not AA. "for after all God gave us brains to use".
recoveredperv 1 year ago
@recoveredperv I won't disappoint you, even if you do put me on a pedestal. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Holy Cowzers! Interpreting a conversation that didn't involve any type of personal attack and didn't even involve you as an attack on you? You are dry as the Mojave desert. Thanks for making my point for me!
recoveredperv 1 year ago
@recoveredperv All conversations here involve the authors of these videos and the owner of the site. Glad I could clear that up for you. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Please accept my apologies, I was trying to reply to comments and videos posted by another member on this site with the same username as you. I'm afraid there are alot of other commenters on this site who are equally confused by two people having the same uname. Just the same you should have been able to determine that the dozens of comments directed at the Mike who has posted 74 anti-AA videos and made many comments against was not you. Nothing has been cleared up for anyone.
recoveredperv 1 year ago
@recoveredperv Read our profile, and you will see that two people, James and Mike, comprise Blamethenile. We each sign our posts accordingly. I have written some of the videos currently available and respond to most of the posts. James has produced all the vids, and written the majority of them. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
why do all steppers talk the same shit i was stuck in it years and now not been doing it about six months and i aint dead
calsmi 1 year ago
if you had any real concept of addiction you would remove this death sentence video.
By posting this video, you give the still suffering addict his or her reason not to be willing to give AA a chance to help. Many human beings perish as a result of pure unwillingness, closed-mindedness and self dishonesty.
MrRessorp 1 year ago
@MrRessorp Right, so let me get this straight; you're saying if you don't like AA, and/or don't go to meetings, and AA members think you need to, you'll die? Have I got this right? B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile If ya watch this vids you'll die. Right now. Goodbye. Aa-critics kill thousands of addicts every day.
andreasheinz 1 year ago
@andreasheinz Thousands? That is almost a million, right? Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
I am surprised at the amout of people who, hate organized religion, but renounce all contact with anyone but other 12 steppers. They are as crazy as any other religion or cult. In thier defence, the big book says that .... many of us have tried relationships, religion, and therapy to no avail.. What people fail to realize is.. those other things do, in fact, work just fine for many seekers.
madinventor13 1 year ago
can you say DENIAL??
dannyrose55 1 year ago
I think the point of the video is that AA tells you its the only way. Do the steps or die??
While AA may work for some people it certainly isnt the only way and arguably isnt the best way
billyboy630 2 years ago
All true. Thanks for posting. Mike BD
blamethenile 2 years ago
@billyboy630 Where in the basic text does it tell you that it is the only way? I believe that it says "when at the end of the road when we find that nothing else has works" Where in there does it say that this is the only way. Now RR it says that the 12 steps doesn't work and we do. Don't get confused.
Godlyguitarman 1 year ago
@Godlyguitarman
ok point taken, but every person in AA I ever encountered has told me if you drink your an alcoholic, and the only answer is to never drink again. But if thats what the text says then I stand corrected, perhaps some of the followers would be wise to remember what the text says, but that goes for any organization, I wouldnt condem for a few memebers
Thanks for correcting me
billyboy630 1 year ago
@billyboy630 well then they are misleading people. The basic text talks about the obsession and compulsion to drink or use. There are a few misnomers that flies around the rooms and that is one. There is a information pamphlet that has questions to helps you to determine. I believe that there are more people that cannot handle their drinking habbits. I don't believe that everyone who drinks has that issue.
Godlyguitarman 1 year ago
@billyboy630 Oh also I heard do the steps or die also. Listening more to those people they ment a spiritual death. The rooms are for some people and not others, I can say that anyone who comes in and works steps it changes their outlook on life.
Godlyguitarman 1 year ago
@billyboy630 AA simply states "half messures availed of nothing". Meaning, if you're gonna do the fucking program, do it right, to the best of your ability : )). It's progress, not perfection. It's about doing your best and accepting the outcome regardless.
blamethenile: If you or others don't like 12 steps, don't come. If you feel so strong as too criticize it in video, please question your motive (denile?)
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk If you like AA, keep going back. If you don't like our vids, don't watch them. Simple enough. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile : how elementary school! Say the opposite that i just said. Amazing! Don't try to address any of my comments, just shut me down. lol The point is, this is publicly blasting something I go to by choice just as any other member does. You chose not to go, I respect that. You also chose to make a vid that may convince someone who needs to get help (any help) from trying one proven method. i don't respect that. Your vid is 'publicly' posted. AA is a private meeting. Again, your motive?
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk You didn't comment, but rather, posted the same tired rhetoric and attacks, all of which we have addressed in vids and posts countless times before. The only things proven in AA are its poor success rates and self-denying religiosity. If you want to worship at the Church of Powerlessness, that is your business. We believe it is a poor approach to a genuine problem, and enjoys undeserved praise and public goodwill, and does more damage than it repairs. Hence, the vids. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile : Can you not sum up 'YOUR' personal reasons for being so anti AA? This is all I ask. Is it HP, fellowship, meetings, the steps? The video does not cover YOUR perspective. I'm asking person to person, so to speak. Inwardly, I am critical of some aspects of AA, proving my individuality is not threatened. How about yours? My praises and gratitude (a word used centuries before AA) outweigh my criticisms. Please try to answer my q as frankly and honestly as you can.
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk Hello, thank you for your comments - Jimmy here, and whilst I am under no obligation to answer your questions, what I will say is that telling people they are powerless over alcohol and that if they do not do the steps, they'll die does it for me. Making them do step one before anything is potentially lethal if that is all they do and then relapse for whatever reason. Take care now. B l A m E REPOST FOR EDIT - apologies
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile @ Jimmy: yes, there are aspects that bother me. I attribute most to when AA was written, how times/addictions have changed and also Bill & Bob using neo-Christian wording etc. I debate this with oldtimers often. but as outdated as some of it may seem, the substance is not the problem so much as how I deal with my emotions. The ground work done there has been copied and people are charged large sums for something they can get for free. Remember, many are on the bottom financially.
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk PS I tried to challenge AA from the inside - ouch. If you want to read more about the threats I received, and other things, send me a PM and I'll link you to a back door into my old website, Blamedenial. B l A m E
blamethenile 1 year ago
@Homenchuk Some of the problems I have with AA include its lack of exit strategy, self-denying religiosity, horrendously low success rates, defeatist doctrines of surrender and acceptance, unqualified cadre who practice psychology and problem-solving based on narrow and unhelpful dogma, lack of harm reduction approaches, reliance upon coercion to fill chairs, non-adherence to its own traditions, rigidity, and largely unworkable, unhelpful steps. Hope I made my motivations more clear. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile : Of course there is failure, of course it's not perfect. I never take anything at face value and if/when the BB thumpers start yapping, I listen but know my program is not ALL ABOUT the first 100 but more about the next million, what worked and what didn't work. That blindness of AA bothers me but my sponsor, my fellows IN MY STEP GROUP, and I acknowledge the imperfections and seek what works and if that involves outside help, well certainly. We will never agree here. Be well Sir!
Homenchuk 1 year ago
@Homenchuk If AA were a matter of discarding that which does not work, and adopting that which does, it would scarcely resemble its present form. Mired in the doctrine of a failed evangelical movement of the early 1900's, it steadfastly refuses to conduct its own fearless and searching inventory of its own moral and methodological shortcomings. I suspect that on a line-by-line analysis, you and I would agree upon much more regarding AA than you might suspect. Take care, Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile LOL Dude, you are hilarious! Actually, you're just another stupid junkie who has decided to think his way out of recovery, afraid to do the real work of introspection and being of service. It's a lie to you but to the 30 million worldwide members who have reclaimed their place among the living and maintain real relationships with families it is the only truth. Go take another hit so you can continue to spout your "truth".
recoveredperv 1 year ago
@recoveredperv 30 million??? That would require one success for each bigbook sold. THAT is hilarious. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile an elementary school level of research shows that 23 million copies of just the fourth edition have been sold in just english it is also printed in French and Spanish. But I'm sure that jumping to conclusions without prior investigation is your strength. Mike, you have uploaded over seventy anti-12 step videos and yet you state "I'm not angry". I guess rigorous honesty was a hurdle you were unable to breach.
recoveredperv 1 year ago
@recoveredperv Making up numbers is a poor substitute for evidence. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago