dear uploader - I have asked quite a few Jehovah´s Witnesses but no one answered after my questioning. So, maybe you have the courage to give detailed information as to WHO the 5 formerly secret members of the WT-translation-committee were and what knowledge and education they had w regards to BIBLICAL LANGUAGES. You are taught and swallow that blindly that YOUR "Bible" is the most accurate. How come Jehovah´s Witnesses cannot answer some serious questions with providing facts?? greets
1.I am honest and fictional and I did read back through through the thread did you see this comment "After reading the previous posts I see I misinterpreted your question." If I was dishonest I would have never admitted that, it's called a mistake...
2. The laws come from the bible and yes there are laws even after Jesus sacrifice, I should you scripture that showed excommunication and Jesus himself saying there's going to be division in families over the faith.
2. I didn't say Jesus wished that would happen but I used the verse to prove separation of family over the faith. There's scripture that says God will destroy the wicked yet another that says he doesn't want or will to, same principle for Matt 10.
@teflonfanatic: Srry for double post forgot questions 3&4.
3. After reading the previous posts I see I misinterpreted your question. anyway your question was A question for you, show me where the Apostles threatened to kick out of the brotherhood those who refused to believe this report?
A. None, I will say I posted John 21 to show the apostles misunderstand Jesus words and not to show disciplinary action. If the apostles can misunderstand Jesus words religious leaders can to.
A question for you, show me where the Apostles threatened to kick out of the brotherhood those who refused to believe this report? 1 Timothy 1:18-20 also 2 timothy 2:17-18 shows they taught false doctrine.
I don't see how the generation adjustment is prophecy. surely if I have a new understanding of a bible passage I wouldn't label it as prophecy.
As for breaking up families who set the example??!!!! Matthew 10:32-37
Also what is their to look into, the apostles misrepresented Jesus words...
Simplicity in the words of Christ should be followed. For the New Year, FOCUS on the Starving children around the world , and the abuse of Gods children, instead of Arguing.
(Isa 43:10) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
A JW prooftext that is irreconcilable with JW's teachings about who and what Jesus Christ is.
If Jesus is a little god created by the Big God then if what JW's teach is true then the Big God is a liar.
This is not what is most objectionable about your sad lttle cult. The heresy is that if members do not believe what the Watchtower leadership commands them to believe, these good people are humiliated and quite often their lives and families are destroyed.
According to the Cult Awareness And Information Center and other reports, Jehovah's Witnesses commit suicide at a rate far exceeding (5-10 times greater) the general population.
Jesus commanded us to judge the fruitage. Your cult has a disasterous hateful history full of lies and false prophecy. Thousands upon thousands of good people and families ripped to shreds by the wicked rotten stinking fruitage the Watchtower purveys.
The text probably refers to judges or some sort of nobilty. Believe what you want however if you believe this somehow corelates to Christ I think you are wrong.
That is not important as you cleverly dodge the points made in my previous comments. You JWs do not have the freedom to think for yourselves You are dictated to by your Brooklyn gods. If you disagree with them you are severely and ruthlessly punished.
I do not miss your point(s). I would really like to address them one at a time, in an orderly fashion. Your first argument was that Jehovah's Witnesses were polytheistic, because we allowed for a wider definition of the Bible word god, than you did. I showed you some examples of that broader definition. There are many others. The words translated as god in the Bible mean a person of great strength, power or authority. There are many gods in the Bible, agreed?
@dhamamy: Even if you were right about the GB being overly controlling it doesn't change the fact that they use the bible more then most, even enemies of them acknowledge this look up new catholic encyclopedia for example. IMJW1000 is using his bible in his post and you don't use the bible at all but instead resort to blame game and name-calling.
Obviously facts elude you. The final authority for JW's is the Watchtower, not the Bible. I did not create the WT's history of lying, false prophecy and breaking up families. The WT did this.
I see no name calling in my posts. If you can point out where I have done this I will offer my apologies.
@dhamamy: actually after reading your posts you were just stating your case. Give some examples of false prophecy please, examples of lying is not needed god's people have been lying since the garden of eden... Also are the Apostles false prophet's for misinterpreting Jesus words? ( John 21:21-23)
Wow.... such sad and desperate twisting. The King James clearly teaches that Jesus was big "G" God. The big "G" is understood universally in English to be the designation for the true God. Why do you think that the NWT had to change these verses?
Even the Watchtower has acknowledged the perspective of Ecclesiastes in w73 10/15 pp. 639-640 Questions From Readers, "By reading the context we can see that Solomon, the writer of Ecclesiastes, is speaking from the point of view of life as it exists now, on earth, “under the sun,” we might say, from the strictly human point of view, from the objective view of an observer. He is not here taking into consideration God’s purpose to bring about a resurrection."
Bare in mind there is much uncertainty about the Trinity concept even among "Trinitarians", but this doesn't make the actual Trinity concept uncertain. There are what the Trinity concept is, and there are things that it is not, and modalism is something it's not.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "Bare in mind there is much uncertainty about the Trinity concept even among "Trinitarians", but this doesn't make the actual Trinity concept uncertain. " - LOL - WHAT ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT WILLIS?
Please advise your fellow trinitarians to make there mind up - if you say that YHWH IS Jesus then you cannot also claim that Jesus IS YHWH. Blatant modalism. Incidentally on many trinitarian websites the term ASPECT is used - Just like Hinduism.
Hey Def, I see you haven't come out with a video in a while judging by the timestamps. This dude must've pissed you off to come out with another one. I say you should forget these Calvinist assholes and kick them to the side. The world is going to hell in a hand basket and these freaking clowns are still trying to understand the Trinity.
To all Calvinists: GIVE IT UP! YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY! YOUR BULLSHIT DOCTRINE OF ELECTION IS A FUCKING JOKE!
NWT Is40:3 "Clear up the way of Jehovah,YOU people! Make the highway for our God through the desert plain straight. ...5 And the glory of Jehovah will certainly be revealed, and all flesh must see [it] together...9 Here is YOUR God.10 Look! The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will come"
Look at YOUR God Sovereign Lord Jehovah Himself:
"Then JESUS came" (Mt3:3:3-13)
He's coming again: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty"
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH only insofar as this gentlemen appears to be a KJonlyist modalist. If he is not, then why is he attributing Zechariah 12:10 to the Father?
Jehovah, himself, didn't come in the flesh, Jesus; the word of God (God's son) came in the flesh. Jesus is not Jehovah by person, but he is Jehovah by nature (the complete fullness of the Deity), being Jehovah's very word.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed: What proof do you have of him being completely deity without God the father allowing it or him having of his own voluition? The divine nature is spirit and only angels and the father himself have that nature. What you trinitarians fail to realize is your own arguments can be applied to others in the bible, therefore your teachings are not absolute and shows extreme bias. It's not that nontrinitarians are in the dark we Just see through your bias.
If you're looking for me to provide proof that Jesus is a god apart from the Father, I'm going to have to disappoint you, because this is not something Trinitarians believe. Jesus is the word of God; he is from the Father, being his very essence, hence he is God's very son. (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:3)
If you believe Trinitarian's then it was the person, God the Father talking to the person God the Son. Three persons, yet all persons make up one God. If you believe DefYHWH Biblical explanation then it's just as this vid proves, that God is Father of the Son of God, as the Bible says over and over again, never God the Son. Study the early debates of what eventually became the Magisterium in the Catholic Church which fractured into Protestantism, and Protestantism into 100's of sects.
The 3 persons cannot make up the one God because each person is equally God and no one of the persons is made but they are co-eternal, to correctly site the trinity.
Interestingly the teaching magisterium of the church affirmed the trinity as a mystery one would not find in the bible but only thru the revealed teaching of the church. It is the protestants who began claiming the trinity can be drawn out of the bible.
Thanks for the information. I still don't get how all three are eternal if Jesus died. It had to be a real death for it to fulfill prophecy and the Law of Sacrifice. It's something neither of us will ever agree on. It's one subject I get tired of debating.
I am completely UNITARIAN, and the triniatarians don't understand it either. The address the Jesus died thing by inventing two beings within the person of Jesus, a human one and a God one. I like the lighter side of it in the trinity scene in Nuns on the Run. Check out biblicalunitarian on YT. Also, if u examine Catholic teaching on the trinity u will find it more coherent and reasonable than the Protestant goofs here
The argument over the nature of God and a lot of other nonsense caused the fracturing of false religion. This is why Daniel 12 and Matt.24:45-46 and many other vs's indicate it would not be until the end that accurate knowledge would be spread throughout the earth. We believe we are in those "end times" and that is why Jehovah's Witnesses set out to find that accurate knowledge. Others have come close, but we believe we have the truth.
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH I see no support for the God-Man belief through scripture. The Father is always referred to as God and Jesus as Lord whenever they are spoken of in the same sentence and never the other way around. We know Jesus was made Lord by the Father. Jesus was never referred to as a spirit until after his ascension to his Father and our father, his God and our God. 1Cor 15:45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
Although I agree with your use of 1 Timothy 3:16. 'God was manifest in the flesh' through his son Jesus Christ. Your use of 1 Timothy 1:17 just shows your lack of a basic understanding of the incarnation (Philippians 2:7), as does your use of John 20:17.
What you conveniently missed out is the very context of John 20:17 (John 1:1, John 8:58, John 20:28).
Anyone could say that the Bible says anything from isolating passages as you do.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed In the dictionary, Incarnation literally means embodied in flesh or taking on flesh. I hope you realize that in bible terms FLESH is corruptable?? 1 Tim 1:17 says specifically that God is incorruptable. That tells us for a certainty that Jesus is NOT the same being as his father Jehovah because while on earth he was corruptable/able to die... not to forget that in 1 Tim 3:16 Jesus was MADE this way confirming that there is someone GREATER than Jesus. Jo14:28
You do realize that Trinitarians don't believe that the flesh of Christ was divine? Jesus died in flesh, not in spirit. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is BOTH fully God AND fully human, two natures where flesh falsifies spirit.
You seem to be like DefYHWH in that you do not take passages in the context they are in. John 14:28 must be taken in the context of John 1:14 and John 17:5. Also see 2 Corinthians 8:9, Philippians 2:7, and Hebrews 2:7.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed The bible tells us what happens when flesh dies. Ps 146:4,Eccl 9:5. What you're saying is NOT biblical...either Christ died or he didn't. If he didn't,.. like you are claiming when saying he is part God who can NOT die... then mankind has no savior. Problem?
According to the bible, a soul IS the person... so when the person dies you can say that the poor soul died. See Gen 2:7...Adam BECAME a living soul...he was not given a soul.
That is correct. We are souls. We are not bodies of flesh, we have bodies of flesh. As Jesus said "Destroy this temple [body], and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19)
Flesh is what came from the dust, and it is flesh that returns to the dust.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed If you agree with what the scriptures are saying that we are living souls than when we die our soul is no longer living. We are a dead soul. The scriptures back that up. Eze 18:4; Acts 3:23
Jesus was a dead soul until he was resurrected by God 3 days after his death. Remember Jesus death has to be a complete death....if any part of Jesus were alive then he wouldn't have died for us....Correct?
And the soul that sins does die. But what is the BIBLICAL definition of death? If eternal life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ, then surely death is to not? Jesus cried out on the cross "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" ("My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")
The bible says nothing about a non-existence of the soul. In fact it speaks of death in quite the opposite way... 'eternal torment'... 'pangs of death'... etc... etc...
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Yes the bible does talk about non existance of the soul..ECCLESIATES is one such perspective that can't be ignored.
Jesus cried out because the realization of death was upon him and it was most likely very scary. Do you really think Jesus would have cried out if he knew that he would not really die but just turn into something else??
So you're saying that Jesus was fearful of non existence? Why?
Did you know that the early Christians under Roman persecution are described as going to their deaths singing and dancing? It seems strange that they would be joyful, yet the most faithful, Jesus Christ, would be gripped by fear...?
@iamTOTALLYredeemed You yourself brought up the scripture that shows Jesus calling out to his father not to forsake him! The point is.....Jesus would NOT have been scared had he been God...as God can not die. But as it is,..Jesus was being tested til death, he had to rely on his heavenly father to raise him up. At the very end God took away his protection so Jesus could really be tested. This took faith, courage and obedience to rely on God til death for which Jesus is our example to follow.
You have unfortunately clearly misunderstood my point. Jesus was scared, but it was not for the thought of no existence, as if it were no existence that he face, this would be exactly the same as those early Christians who went singing and dancing to their death. In death, God poured out his eternal wrath on Jesus, for the sins of those who would repent of themselves, believe in and follow Jesus. Jesus suffered much worst then a brutal flogging and a crucifixion.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed For what PURPOSE would God pour out his eternal wrath as you say....if it wasn't going to accomplish anything?? In other words...if Jesus could NOT die why would he be scared?
See, doesn't make sense. It makes sense that Jesus is scared because he is vulnerable and able to truly become non existent like ALL MANKIND does at death....waiting for a resurrection.
Why would Jesus be scared of death if this just meant non-existence? The point is, biblical death is very different how you perceive it. There is nothing to fear from non-existence.
To put it simply if God did not poured out his wrath upon Jesus then we are all going to die in our sins. As the price of sin has not been paid. And the judgement of God has not been fulfilled.
Have you read ever Isaiah 63?
According to your interpretation of Ecclesiastes 9:6 there is no resurrection.
The living are conscious that they will die...Eccl says......but the dead are conscious of nothing.....does that sound like a soul that lives on? If you have no awareness how can you be living?
"By reading the context we can see that Solomon, the writer of Ecclesiastes, is speaking from the point of view of life as it exists now, on earth, “under the sun,” we might say, from the strictly human point of view, FROM THE OBJECTIVE VIEW OF AN OBSERVER. He is not here taking into consideration God’s purpose to bring about a resurrection."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 is not speaking with regards to an afterlife.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed If there is nothing to fear from non existence then why does mankind fear death? Why is death said to be an " enemy" in the bible? Why is death thrown in the symbolic lake of fire at the restoration of mankind?
The fear of death is the fear of certainty, the uncertainty of what will await them after death.
I never used to fear death until I took hell seriously, before I found Christ. The only thing I feared was the way in which I might die. I know many atheists that do not fear death. Muslim extremists, for example, do not fear death, because they have been brainwashed to believe the way they die will guarantee them instant access to "paradise".
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So do you believe that "hell" is interpreted wrong by many when they think of it as an eternal burning, it's actually a word for the common grave of mankind. Look up these greek and hebrew words Hades and Sheol you will find that Hell is the exact same.
Do you know that in the King James Jesus went to "hell" when he died? Acts 2:25-27
I believe "hell" is interpreted wrong by many, yes. But I do not agree with the way you interpret "hell" either. I recognize a difference between Hades and Gehenna. Hades is a place of departed souls, Jesus mentions this place in Luke 16 where those "sleeping" await the resurrection. However, Gehenna is the eternal destruction of the soul after the resurrection.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Gehenna was actual place. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna.
Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that this type of death is permanent. no resurrection.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed There is no such thing as eternal torment in the bible. That is an irresponsible false concept that makes our loving creator out to be some sadistic torturer. God is a God of love, that is a fact. He does not eternally torture people.
The dead are conscious of nothing at all.
As stated earlier Gehenna was a literal place for disposing garbage etc. Yes it signifies the second death but you may only die once to be put there which really means, NO resurrection/nonexistence.
Eternal torment is very very explicit in the Bible. Do you take a black marker pen to these many passages, or do you just not like to read the entire Bible?
Sure God is love, however with one extreme comes it's opposite. God loves righteousness and hates unrighteousness. God is just we have sinned against a holy and eternal God, we are all deserving of eternal punishment.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So you feel that our God of supreme JUSTICE will torture the wicked eternally even though these ones have only lived for under 100 years in most cases. That's kinda OVERKILL and NOT very JUST
Please show me the verses you think that prove our loving God condemns people to everlasting torture?
To God there is no concept of time (2 Peter 3:8). Time is something of this world, and God is not of this world. As I said, when we sin we sin against an eternal God, therefore we are justly subject to an eternal punishment. It is not important was it relative to us, but what is relative to God.
Matthew 25:46 clearly shows that eternal torment is just as real as eternal life.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Matt 25:46 does NOT clearly show that God eternally punishes people, it does however clearly shows that death is forever. Death being non existence. That's it.
(Matthew 25:46) And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life
God created us, not the other way around, who are we to tell God what he can and cannot do? Who are we to tell a holy God what is right and wrong. We are the evil ones not him.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed I don't understand where this fits into our discussion. Please clarify.
I totally agree that God tells us what to do....that is why it is important to understand the scriptures THE WAY GOD WANTS not the way we want. They should be harmonious thoughout, not contradictory and mysterious.
This is not about God telling us what to do, but rather God doing with us as he wills.
"Has the potter no right over the clay?" is a quote from Romans 9:21. Read the context. With your theology you'll probably want to rip the page out of your Bible once you're done.
The theology I have shown you has been strictly biblical. You haven't shown any scriptures in which contradict anything I have brought to your attention.
"but you may only die once to be put there"? There is resurrection for both the just and the unjust (Act 24:15). What you're saying is totally unbiblical.
Yes, there is a resurrection for the just and unjust:
- the term “asleep” is applied in the Scriptures to those dying because of the death passed on from Adam. Those suffering the “second death” are not spoken of as asleep. Rather, they are shown to be completely annihilated, burned up as fire.Re 20:14, 15; Heb 10:26-31,where a contrast is made between the death of law and the much more severe punishment meted out to those who turn to a willful practice of sin; Heb 6:4-8.
@FairNskware I missed a few words....it could be hard to understand without these few words..
where a contrast is made between "the death of those who violated the Mosaic Law"and the much more severe punishment meted out to those who turn to a willful practice of sin; Heb 6:4-8
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Again, this say nothing of what you speak. The soul is not even mentioned. You added that!
(Daniel 12:2) And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence
I haven't added anything. What Daniel 12:2 confirms is that what is asleep is not the soul, but the body. The soul/spirit departing from the body at death is supported in: Gen 35:18, Ps 31:5, Luke 23:43, 46, Acts 7:59, Phil 1:23-24, 2 Co 5:8, Rev 6:9, and 20:4.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed How does that even make sense. How can a lifeless body be asleep....It's the person who is in the body that is sleeping. Even a child can understand that a shoe doesnt fall a sleep but the foot in the shoe does?
Let's turn this around shall we: How can a lifeless, non-existent soul be asleep? Remember after death you said that a person doesn't exist any longer except in the memory banks of God... See how this doesn't make any sense either when taken literally, and how you are literally just saying anything now even if it makes your own belief look illogical.
"Sleep" however is symbolic of death only being temporary.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed It make sense to me? Yes death is likened to sleep because if you have the resurrection hope...you will wake up out of it...It's those who are alive who view the dead as sleeping temporarily. The dead don't know that they are dead as they are unconscious....like sleeping.
Yet the term 'sleep' in the Bible is never at attributed to the soul, only the body. Just as in our living state even when our bodies our sleep, we are always partially conscience, only away from the body, our subconsciousness is constantly active.
Why would a loving God resurrect a person back to life then immediately throw him into the lake of fire? No,...HE WOULDNT...and the bible doesn't teach that any way...thankfully!!
There are many people thru out history who have died that had never had a chance to come to know God. These ones too are called unrighteous...but they will have a chance to come to God in the millenium. That is what the 1000 years are for? Rev20
And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, AND THOSE WHO HAVE DONE EVIL TO THE RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed There are different degrees of EVIL. Inherited sin is EVIL yet we are born in this EVILNESS. Then there is deliberate sin which is above and beyond our inherited EVIL imperfectness. Heb 6:8 is speaking of deliberate sin and John 5 is referring to ALL the inherited Evil adamic sinful people who have never had a chance to show if they agree with Christ and God or not. they will be judged on what they do in the 1000 years not on what they did before they died.Rev 20:12
"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:14-16 shows all sin is recorded, whether it is according to law of Moses, the law of Muhammad, the law of Buddha, the law of the Pope, the law of the Watchtower, or the law of the individual, no one apart from grace is free from a law that condemns.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed “I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah.”1 Cor. 4:4
The moral nature we inherited that operates as a “law” or rule of conduct in people of all races and nationalities explains why God could justly hold not only his covenant people of Israel but the whole world of mankind ‘liable for punishment,’ and why, in the judgment, he can justly “render to each one according to his works.”Ro 2:6; 3:9,19.
Again, when you read the bible,..our God given brain can help us in piecing things together to get a rounded picture. So, when you read Heb 6:4-8, it is quite clear that these ones will NOT BE RESURRECTED...they are judged now....their death is final and what the bible calls the 2nd death. They will never live again. True Apostates get this 2nd death now.
Heb 6:8 says absolutely nothing about these ones not being resurrected to Judgment, all it says is "...its end is to be burned."
It's not same as John 3:18 saying "...but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
These passages say nothing of no resurrection, they only speak of the non believers inevitable end.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed The Bible says: “The wages sin pays is death.” (Rom. 6:23) This means that when a person has died his sinful record no longer stands against him. And were it not for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and God’s purpose to resurrect the person, he would never live again. Still, he would remain acquitted from sin, as God would not repeatedly reexamine his case and then sentence him to other kinds of punishment for his sin. Rom 6:7
But, then the big question has to be asked again: What does it mean to die?
Ezekiel 18:20 says that "the soul who sins shall die" not the body. If physical death is simply that, the body, and the soul of a man lives on, then a resurrection of Judgment makes perfect sense. However, if physical death, means non-existence for the soul then this resurrection makes no sense at all.
And this is also exactly what is being spoken of in Matt 10:28. Man cannot kill the soul.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed " the soul who sins shall die"....the soul is the person, when the soul dies his body decomposes...its a shell. The person is a soul...either a live soul or dead soul. Animals are souls. They are either dead or live souls too. The difference with humans are that instead of being dead forever like animals,God will resurrect us because of Christ Sacrifice. If it wasn't for that, we would be dead like animals forever in the ground, dust...gone.That is what the bible teaches.
That maybe what you believe, but the is nowhere supported in scripture, in fact it is refuted by Jesus' own words at Matthew 10:28 as well as in a number of other passages.
Ezekiel 18 is not about the body at all, in it were it would be false, as vs.21 continues on to says 'But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; HE SHALL NOT DIE.'
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "If physical death is simply that, the body, and the soul of a man lives on", then we don't need Jesus sacrifice. "However, if physical death, means non-existence for the soul" than we NEED a savior so that we can COME OUT of death...to a resurrection of life.
On the contrary we do need Jesus' sacrifice, because physical death is not the end. All men die physically whether they be just or unjust. However, there is then the resurrection of eternal life for the just (because of Jesus' sacrifice) and the resurrection of Judgement for the unjust and this judgement will send them to Gehenna.
The question is why did Jesus die if our sin debt is paid at physical death, which comes to both the just and unjust?
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna" Matt 10:28. A resurrection, therefore, is the hope for future life of those in God’s memory. Instead of remaining a dead soul indefinitely when your life force leaves you, there is the Scriptural hope that God will restore your life force, that you may be a living soul once again.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed No.... man can not take away the prospect of a resurrection. That is was is signified as a soul...it is not an out of body type of thing. The soul is the the person, when he dies and becomes a dead soul, he goes to the ground and if he is in Gods memory he will be resurrected as once again become a living soul. That is what the bible teaches.
John 5:28,29 - note: " MEMORIAL tomb are those in God's memory"
John 5:28,29 reads "...for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will HEAR his voice and COME OUT, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
Come out? From God's memory? When they are "resurrected" is God going to forget about them?
Also how can a simply memory hear?
Rev 20:13 says, 'And the sea gave up the dead who were in it'
This sounds very different to simply the storage of memory.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed It's a figure of speech. Memories can't hear No, but its like they can when God resurrects them. My memories don't hear either but I do?? Does the sea live? No, but it gave up it's dead.
What it's saying is that these ones are NOT FORGOTTEN, they are LIKE they are alive to God because they are written in his memory....again not literally...but figuratively written.
Greek word 'mnēmeion' in John 5:28 has two different meanings:
1) Any visible object for preserving or recalling the memory of any person or thing
2) Simply a sepulchre or tomb
Given what is being said, plus taking into account the greater context of scripture as a whole it is only logical to conclude the Jesus in John 5 is speaking of a physical tomb, rather than a remembrance.
Tomb represents WHERE the dead ones lie or SLEEP as it still does today. Memorial is the remembering of the dead...also as it still does today. It is quite clear! God will remember the dead ones in the graves/tombs.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Again, what am I trying to establish? The Greek term used in John 5:28,29 here is properly translated “memorial tombs” and not simply “graves.” because it conveys the thought that the life record of the person who has died is remembered by God.
The dead are totally unconscious and do not have a soul that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14, 23, 24) Jesus will bring those asleep in death back to life again on earth.
How does the word being translated 'memorial tombs' convey any type of concept that God remembers those who no longer exist? This Greek word refers to something physical or at least visual that TRIGGERS the remembrance of those dead. It has nothing to do with a storage of memory.
It's like the bread and the wine is to cause us to remember the sacrifice of Jesus for us.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed In all sincerity, I just don't understand where you are with this. I think the word memorial is self explanatory. God doesn't need triggers to remember something.
Are you saying the John 5:38,39 is to cause us to remember the dead when we see their tomb? If so...for what purpose?
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Okay yes English is my first language and just so you are aware..the root word for memorial is memory.
In English Memory is defined as: 1 a : the power or process of recalling what has been learned b : the store of things learned and kept in the mind. ( websters dictionary)
If English is your first language then learn it. You cannot take the meaning of a word's root word and apply it to meaning of that word.
The purpose of a 'memorial' to trigger a memory not be that memory.
You are literally just saying anything to try and "win" this now. Try actually taking God's word seriously, and stop attempting to twist scripture to fit your unbiblical theology.
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "If English is your first language then learn it. You cannot take the meaning of a word's root word and apply it to meaning of that word."
@iamTOTALLYredeemed This is how the insults from you guys start. It happens all the time when you get frustrated. Don't think I don't get frustrated too but the difference is...I still try to reason with you ...Please, if you think what you have is truth then show me where you feel I am in error. This is not about winning. It's about saving lives.
"And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
So what you're saying is that when the scripture says " all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out" you believe it means that dead people are actually alive underground waiting to come up out of the ground when they actually hear which their decomposed ear, a certain command from Jesus?
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So if its only a reference to bodies, what your saying now is that there will be only bodies coming out without souls or people in them...." all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out" ...Zombies?
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dear uploader - I have asked quite a few Jehovah´s Witnesses but no one answered after my questioning. So, maybe you have the courage to give detailed information as to WHO the 5 formerly secret members of the WT-translation-committee were and what knowledge and education they had w regards to BIBLICAL LANGUAGES. You are taught and swallow that blindly that YOUR "Bible" is the most accurate. How come Jehovah´s Witnesses cannot answer some serious questions with providing facts?? greets
HeavenClear 1 day ago
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1.I am honest and fictional and I did read back through through the thread did you see this comment "After reading the previous posts I see I misinterpreted your question." If I was dishonest I would have never admitted that, it's called a mistake...
2. The laws come from the bible and yes there are laws even after Jesus sacrifice, I should you scripture that showed excommunication and Jesus himself saying there's going to be division in families over the faith.
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic: functional*...
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
1. Responded to your comment with scripture
2. You say I butcher Jesus words? Read the verses again preferably in NASB or any version besides old KJ.
3. You never said anything about John 21
4. The WT does not teach that the resurrection has already occured they teach that Jesus is already in kingdom power.
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic
1. You responded with scripture that did not address the point at hand.
2. I meant that if you take away from Matt 10 that Jesus wished families broken up so be it..
3. No I didnt say anything about John 21, You DID.
4. Read your WT dogma, they do teach resurrection has already occurred.
You are not a very studious JW are you? Hit the books man!!
dhamamy 1 week ago
@dhamamy:
1. How so?
2. I didn't say Jesus wished that would happen but I used the verse to prove separation of family over the faith. There's scripture that says God will destroy the wicked yet another that says he doesn't want or will to, same principle for Matt 10.
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic: Srry for double post forgot questions 3&4.
3. After reading the previous posts I see I misinterpreted your question. anyway your question was A question for you, show me where the Apostles threatened to kick out of the brotherhood those who refused to believe this report?
A. None, I will say I posted John 21 to show the apostles misunderstand Jesus words and not to show disciplinary action. If the apostles can misunderstand Jesus words religious leaders can to.
4. I see none
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic
1. Read back through the thread, find my question, read it, and then honestly answer it.
2. Again, if your heart leads you to read it that way and justify how WT laws break up families. So be it.
Please don't bother responding until you are ready to be honest and functional.
Good Day!
dhamamy 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic
If you would like to try being functional instead of this obtuse game you are playing, let me know and we can start again.
dhamamy 1 week ago
A question for you, show me where the Apostles threatened to kick out of the brotherhood those who refused to believe this report? 1 Timothy 1:18-20 also 2 timothy 2:17-18 shows they taught false doctrine.
I don't see how the generation adjustment is prophecy. surely if I have a new understanding of a bible passage I wouldn't label it as prophecy.
As for breaking up families who set the example??!!!! Matthew 10:32-37
Also what is their to look into, the apostles misrepresented Jesus words...
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic
Eluding me by not responding directly to my comment. Very clever!
As for you butchering the meaning of Jesus words at Matt 10. If that is how you understand Jesus' words, then so be it.
Your scriptures quoted at Timothy? Did you even read them? Nothing to do with John 21.
Since you bring it up, what was Hymenaeus' false doctrine? Teaching that the resurrection had already taken place? Is that not a WT central doctine?
You are incredibly ignorant.
dhamamy 1 week ago
Simplicity in the words of Christ should be followed. For the New Year, FOCUS on the Starving children around the world , and the abuse of Gods children, instead of Arguing.
Enough!
Try to walk as did.
God Bless
1purelight 1 month ago
Litlle god and Big God JW Polytheism. No Thanks
dhamamy 2 months ago
@dhamamy posted, "JW Polytheism. No Thanks".
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Exodus 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
All KJV.
There are many "small gods" in the Bible. The Bible definition of 'god' is "powerful person".
IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
(Isa 43:10) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
A JW prooftext that is irreconcilable with JW's teachings about who and what Jesus Christ is.
If Jesus is a little god created by the Big God then if what JW's teach is true then the Big God is a liar.
dhamamy 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
This is not what is most objectionable about your sad lttle cult. The heresy is that if members do not believe what the Watchtower leadership commands them to believe, these good people are humiliated and quite often their lives and families are destroyed.
dhamamy 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
Here is an example. Google: Dwayne Fagan.
According to the Cult Awareness And Information Center and other reports, Jehovah's Witnesses commit suicide at a rate far exceeding (5-10 times greater) the general population.
Jesus commanded us to judge the fruitage. Your cult has a disasterous hateful history full of lies and false prophecy. Thousands upon thousands of good people and families ripped to shreds by the wicked rotten stinking fruitage the Watchtower purveys.
dhamamy 1 month ago
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IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
Typical JW revisionist.
dhamamy 1 month ago
Well, you tell me. Who are these gods we are told not to revile?
Exodus 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people. (KJV)
IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
It is most certain that you miss my point.
The text probably refers to judges or some sort of nobilty. Believe what you want however if you believe this somehow corelates to Christ I think you are wrong.
That is not important as you cleverly dodge the points made in my previous comments. You JWs do not have the freedom to think for yourselves You are dictated to by your Brooklyn gods. If you disagree with them you are severely and ruthlessly punished.
dhamamy 1 month ago
I do not miss your point(s). I would really like to address them one at a time, in an orderly fashion. Your first argument was that Jehovah's Witnesses were polytheistic, because we allowed for a wider definition of the Bible word god, than you did. I showed you some examples of that broader definition. There are many others. The words translated as god in the Bible mean a person of great strength, power or authority. There are many gods in the Bible, agreed?
IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
No that wasn't my argument. And no, I don't agree. But go ahead and make your case.
watch?v=J-RsDKUt8pg&feature=g-u&context=G214e320FUAAAAAAADAA
dhamamy 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
Insead of feverishly consulting your Watchtower CD why not just read your Bible?
dhamamy 1 month ago
@dhamamy posted another personal attack.
Οι Γραφές μας λένε να μη γεννώνται πριν από μαργαριτάρια των χοίρων, ώστε αντίο
IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
Είστε προτείνοντας είμαι χοίρων γιατί σας προτείνω να διαβάσετε τις Γραφές; Είστε ηλίθιος.
dhamamy 1 month ago
@dhamamy
Όχι, δεν είμαι γεγονός που υποδηλώνει τίποτα. Ήμουν απλά αναφέρεται σε Matthew 7:06. Είστε το όνομα του καλούντος, εδώ γύρω.
IMJW1000 1 month ago
@IMJW1000
χασμουρητό
dhamamy 1 month ago
@dhamamy: Even if you were right about the GB being overly controlling it doesn't change the fact that they use the bible more then most, even enemies of them acknowledge this look up new catholic encyclopedia for example. IMJW1000 is using his bible in his post and you don't use the bible at all but instead resort to blame game and name-calling.
teflonfanatic 2 weeks ago
@teflonfanatic
Obviously facts elude you. The final authority for JW's is the Watchtower, not the Bible. I did not create the WT's history of lying, false prophecy and breaking up families. The WT did this.
I see no name calling in my posts. If you can point out where I have done this I will offer my apologies.
Cheers
dhamamy 2 weeks ago
@dhamamy: actually after reading your posts you were just stating your case. Give some examples of false prophecy please, examples of lying is not needed god's people have been lying since the garden of eden... Also are the Apostles false prophet's for misinterpreting Jesus words? ( John 21:21-23)
teflonfanatic 1 week ago
@teflonfanatic
I guess you are not disputing that WT breaks up families. LOL
The "Generation" false prophecy is enough for you to chew on for now.
The Apostles are false prophets for relating what Jesus told them? Interesting argument however when you look deeper, it is nonsense.
A question for you, show me where the Apostles threatened to kick out of the brotherhood those who refused to believe this report?
As the WT threatens members who dont believe their doctrinal tripe.
dhamamy 1 week ago
Wow.... such sad and desperate twisting. The King James clearly teaches that Jesus was big "G" God. The big "G" is understood universally in English to be the designation for the true God. Why do you think that the NWT had to change these verses?
21crosscheck21 2 months ago
Even the Watchtower has acknowledged the perspective of Ecclesiastes in w73 10/15 pp. 639-640 Questions From Readers, "By reading the context we can see that Solomon, the writer of Ecclesiastes, is speaking from the point of view of life as it exists now, on earth, “under the sun,” we might say, from the strictly human point of view, from the objective view of an observer. He is not here taking into consideration God’s purpose to bring about a resurrection."
rachelbinto 2 months ago
@rachelbinto Touche Rachel...thanx
FairNskware 2 months ago
@rachelbinto
Thank you so much for the input Rachel. I was aware that this Watchtower article existed, but I didn't know where to find it.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
Trinitarian - modalist - trinitarian - modalist They Just cannot help themselves.
dunklaw 2 months ago
@dunklaw
Bare in mind there is much uncertainty about the Trinity concept even among "Trinitarians", but this doesn't make the actual Trinity concept uncertain. There are what the Trinity concept is, and there are things that it is not, and modalism is something it's not.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
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@iamTOTALLYredeemed "Bare in mind there is much uncertainty about the Trinity concept even among "Trinitarians", but this doesn't make the actual Trinity concept uncertain. " - LOL - WHAT ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT WILLIS?
Please advise your fellow trinitarians to make there mind up - if you say that YHWH IS Jesus then you cannot also claim that Jesus IS YHWH. Blatant modalism. Incidentally on many trinitarian websites the term ASPECT is used - Just like Hinduism.
dunklaw 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
You can read the Bible voraciously and never encounter the concept.
LovingScrubbies 2 months ago
@LovingScrubbies
Which concept you talking about? Can you define it please?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
The Trinity.
LovingScrubbies 2 months ago
@LovingScrubbies
Can you please explain what you mean by the term "The Trinity"?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
No. And neither can trinitarians.
LovingScrubbies 2 months ago
Hey Def, I see you haven't come out with a video in a while judging by the timestamps. This dude must've pissed you off to come out with another one. I say you should forget these Calvinist assholes and kick them to the side. The world is going to hell in a hand basket and these freaking clowns are still trying to understand the Trinity.
To all Calvinists: GIVE IT UP! YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED IN MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY! YOUR BULLSHIT DOCTRINE OF ELECTION IS A FUCKING JOKE!
gnryushi 2 months ago
NWT Is40:3 "Clear up the way of Jehovah,YOU people! Make the highway for our God through the desert plain straight. ...5 And the glory of Jehovah will certainly be revealed, and all flesh must see [it] together...9 Here is YOUR God.10 Look! The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself will come"
Look at YOUR God Sovereign Lord Jehovah Himself:
"Then JESUS came" (Mt3:3:3-13)
He's coming again: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty"
barbsinclair 2 months ago
A King James onlyist modalist? What a trainwreck!
theapologeticfront 2 months ago
@theapologeticfront
Hey Mike. Are you agreeing with DefYHWH? I don't understand your response.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 months ago
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH only insofar as this gentlemen appears to be a KJonlyist modalist. If he is not, then why is he attributing Zechariah 12:10 to the Father?
theapologeticfront 2 months ago
Srry DefendingYHWH wrong video please delete my previous comment...
teflonfanatic 2 months ago
anissueofsincerity: What's your problem I just showed interest in 4thefaithful's question I wasn't advocating a WT teaching...
teflonfanatic 2 months ago
If Jehovah came to earth as Jesus then who was it that said "This is my son." from heaven?
DarkShadowM99 2 months ago
@DarkShadowM99
Jehovah, himself, didn't come in the flesh, Jesus; the word of God (God's son) came in the flesh. Jesus is not Jehovah by person, but he is Jehovah by nature (the complete fullness of the Deity), being Jehovah's very word.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed: What proof do you have of him being completely deity without God the father allowing it or him having of his own voluition? The divine nature is spirit and only angels and the father himself have that nature. What you trinitarians fail to realize is your own arguments can be applied to others in the bible, therefore your teachings are not absolute and shows extreme bias. It's not that nontrinitarians are in the dark we Just see through your bias.
teflonfanatic 2 months ago
@teflonfanatic
If you're looking for me to provide proof that Jesus is a god apart from the Father, I'm going to have to disappoint you, because this is not something Trinitarians believe. Jesus is the word of God; he is from the Father, being his very essence, hence he is God's very son. (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:3)
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@DSM99
If you believe Trinitarian's then it was the person, God the Father talking to the person God the Son. Three persons, yet all persons make up one God. If you believe DefYHWH Biblical explanation then it's just as this vid proves, that God is Father of the Son of God, as the Bible says over and over again, never God the Son. Study the early debates of what eventually became the Magisterium in the Catholic Church which fractured into Protestantism, and Protestantism into 100's of sects.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 months ago
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH
The 3 persons cannot make up the one God because each person is equally God and no one of the persons is made but they are co-eternal, to correctly site the trinity.
Interestingly the teaching magisterium of the church affirmed the trinity as a mystery one would not find in the bible but only thru the revealed teaching of the church. It is the protestants who began claiming the trinity can be drawn out of the bible.
LovingScrubbies 2 months ago
@LovingScrubbies
Thanks for the information. I still don't get how all three are eternal if Jesus died. It had to be a real death for it to fulfill prophecy and the Law of Sacrifice. It's something neither of us will ever agree on. It's one subject I get tired of debating.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 months ago
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH
I am completely UNITARIAN, and the triniatarians don't understand it either. The address the Jesus died thing by inventing two beings within the person of Jesus, a human one and a God one. I like the lighter side of it in the trinity scene in Nuns on the Run. Check out biblicalunitarian on YT. Also, if u examine Catholic teaching on the trinity u will find it more coherent and reasonable than the Protestant goofs here
LovingScrubbies 2 months ago
@DSM99
2
The argument over the nature of God and a lot of other nonsense caused the fracturing of false religion. This is why Daniel 12 and Matt.24:45-46 and many other vs's indicate it would not be until the end that accurate knowledge would be spread throughout the earth. We believe we are in those "end times" and that is why Jehovah's Witnesses set out to find that accurate knowledge. Others have come close, but we believe we have the truth.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 months ago
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DarkShadowM99 2 months ago
@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH I see no support for the God-Man belief through scripture. The Father is always referred to as God and Jesus as Lord whenever they are spoken of in the same sentence and never the other way around. We know Jesus was made Lord by the Father. Jesus was never referred to as a spirit until after his ascension to his Father and our father, his God and our God. 1Cor 15:45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
DarkShadowM99 2 months ago
Although I agree with your use of 1 Timothy 3:16. 'God was manifest in the flesh' through his son Jesus Christ. Your use of 1 Timothy 1:17 just shows your lack of a basic understanding of the incarnation (Philippians 2:7), as does your use of John 20:17.
What you conveniently missed out is the very context of John 20:17 (John 1:1, John 8:58, John 20:28).
Anyone could say that the Bible says anything from isolating passages as you do.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed In the dictionary, Incarnation literally means embodied in flesh or taking on flesh. I hope you realize that in bible terms FLESH is corruptable?? 1 Tim 1:17 says specifically that God is incorruptable. That tells us for a certainty that Jesus is NOT the same being as his father Jehovah because while on earth he was corruptable/able to die... not to forget that in 1 Tim 3:16 Jesus was MADE this way confirming that there is someone GREATER than Jesus. Jo14:28
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
You do realize that Trinitarians don't believe that the flesh of Christ was divine? Jesus died in flesh, not in spirit. Trinitarians believe that Jesus is BOTH fully God AND fully human, two natures where flesh falsifies spirit.
You seem to be like DefYHWH in that you do not take passages in the context they are in. John 14:28 must be taken in the context of John 1:14 and John 17:5. Also see 2 Corinthians 8:9, Philippians 2:7, and Hebrews 2:7.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed The bible tells us what happens when flesh dies. Ps 146:4,Eccl 9:5. What you're saying is NOT biblical...either Christ died or he didn't. If he didn't,.. like you are claiming when saying he is part God who can NOT die... then mankind has no savior. Problem?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Psalm 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5 have nothing to do with the soul, but the fleshly body. As I said Jesus died in the flesh, not the spirit.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
According to the bible, a soul IS the person... so when the person dies you can say that the poor soul died. See Gen 2:7...Adam BECAME a living soul...he was not given a soul.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
That is correct. We are souls. We are not bodies of flesh, we have bodies of flesh. As Jesus said "Destroy this temple [body], and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19)
Flesh is what came from the dust, and it is flesh that returns to the dust.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed If you agree with what the scriptures are saying that we are living souls than when we die our soul is no longer living. We are a dead soul. The scriptures back that up. Eze 18:4; Acts 3:23
Jesus was a dead soul until he was resurrected by God 3 days after his death. Remember Jesus death has to be a complete death....if any part of Jesus were alive then he wouldn't have died for us....Correct?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
And the soul that sins does die. But what is the BIBLICAL definition of death? If eternal life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ, then surely death is to not? Jesus cried out on the cross "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" ("My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")
The bible says nothing about a non-existence of the soul. In fact it speaks of death in quite the opposite way... 'eternal torment'... 'pangs of death'... etc... etc...
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Yes the bible does talk about non existance of the soul..ECCLESIATES is one such perspective that can't be ignored.
Jesus cried out because the realization of death was upon him and it was most likely very scary. Do you really think Jesus would have cried out if he knew that he would not really die but just turn into something else??
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
So you're saying that Jesus was fearful of non existence? Why?
Did you know that the early Christians under Roman persecution are described as going to their deaths singing and dancing? It seems strange that they would be joyful, yet the most faithful, Jesus Christ, would be gripped by fear...?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed You yourself brought up the scripture that shows Jesus calling out to his father not to forsake him! The point is.....Jesus would NOT have been scared had he been God...as God can not die. But as it is,..Jesus was being tested til death, he had to rely on his heavenly father to raise him up. At the very end God took away his protection so Jesus could really be tested. This took faith, courage and obedience to rely on God til death for which Jesus is our example to follow.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
You have unfortunately clearly misunderstood my point. Jesus was scared, but it was not for the thought of no existence, as if it were no existence that he face, this would be exactly the same as those early Christians who went singing and dancing to their death. In death, God poured out his eternal wrath on Jesus, for the sins of those who would repent of themselves, believe in and follow Jesus. Jesus suffered much worst then a brutal flogging and a crucifixion.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed For what PURPOSE would God pour out his eternal wrath as you say....if it wasn't going to accomplish anything?? In other words...if Jesus could NOT die why would he be scared?
See, doesn't make sense. It makes sense that Jesus is scared because he is vulnerable and able to truly become non existent like ALL MANKIND does at death....waiting for a resurrection.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Why would Jesus be scared of death if this just meant non-existence? The point is, biblical death is very different how you perceive it. There is nothing to fear from non-existence.
To put it simply if God did not poured out his wrath upon Jesus then we are all going to die in our sins. As the price of sin has not been paid. And the judgement of God has not been fulfilled.
Have you read ever Isaiah 63?
According to your interpretation of Ecclesiastes 9:6 there is no resurrection.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
The living are conscious that they will die...Eccl says......but the dead are conscious of nothing.....does that sound like a soul that lives on? If you have no awareness how can you be living?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Give up on using Ecclesiastes, even the Watchtower disagree with your use of it.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed I am agreeing totally with what the Watchtower is stating. Not sure why you would think otherwise?
FairNskware 2 months ago
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@FairNskware
You're really not.
"By reading the context we can see that Solomon, the writer of Ecclesiastes, is speaking from the point of view of life as it exists now, on earth, “under the sun,” we might say, from the strictly human point of view, FROM THE OBJECTIVE VIEW OF AN OBSERVER. He is not here taking into consideration God’s purpose to bring about a resurrection."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 is not speaking with regards to an afterlife.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed If there is nothing to fear from non existence then why does mankind fear death? Why is death said to be an " enemy" in the bible? Why is death thrown in the symbolic lake of fire at the restoration of mankind?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
The fear of death is the fear of certainty, the uncertainty of what will await them after death.
I never used to fear death until I took hell seriously, before I found Christ. The only thing I feared was the way in which I might die. I know many atheists that do not fear death. Muslim extremists, for example, do not fear death, because they have been brainwashed to believe the way they die will guarantee them instant access to "paradise".
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So do you believe that "hell" is interpreted wrong by many when they think of it as an eternal burning, it's actually a word for the common grave of mankind. Look up these greek and hebrew words Hades and Sheol you will find that Hell is the exact same.
Do you know that in the King James Jesus went to "hell" when he died? Acts 2:25-27
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
I believe "hell" is interpreted wrong by many, yes. But I do not agree with the way you interpret "hell" either. I recognize a difference between Hades and Gehenna. Hades is a place of departed souls, Jesus mentions this place in Luke 16 where those "sleeping" await the resurrection. However, Gehenna is the eternal destruction of the soul after the resurrection.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Gehenna was actual place. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna.
Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that this type of death is permanent. no resurrection.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Precisely, Gehenna is the second death, that not of the body, but of the soul. This is described many times as 'eternal torment'.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed There is no such thing as eternal torment in the bible. That is an irresponsible false concept that makes our loving creator out to be some sadistic torturer. God is a God of love, that is a fact. He does not eternally torture people.
The dead are conscious of nothing at all.
As stated earlier Gehenna was a literal place for disposing garbage etc. Yes it signifies the second death but you may only die once to be put there which really means, NO resurrection/nonexistence.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Eternal torment is very very explicit in the Bible. Do you take a black marker pen to these many passages, or do you just not like to read the entire Bible?
Sure God is love, however with one extreme comes it's opposite. God loves righteousness and hates unrighteousness. God is just we have sinned against a holy and eternal God, we are all deserving of eternal punishment.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So you feel that our God of supreme JUSTICE will torture the wicked eternally even though these ones have only lived for under 100 years in most cases. That's kinda OVERKILL and NOT very JUST
Please show me the verses you think that prove our loving God condemns people to everlasting torture?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
To God there is no concept of time (2 Peter 3:8). Time is something of this world, and God is not of this world. As I said, when we sin we sin against an eternal God, therefore we are justly subject to an eternal punishment. It is not important was it relative to us, but what is relative to God.
Matthew 25:46 clearly shows that eternal torment is just as real as eternal life.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Matt 25:46 does NOT clearly show that God eternally punishes people, it does however clearly shows that death is forever. Death being non existence. That's it.
(Matthew 25:46) And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
God created us, not the other way around, who are we to tell God what he can and cannot do? Who are we to tell a holy God what is right and wrong. We are the evil ones not him.
Has the potter no right over the clay?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed I don't understand where this fits into our discussion. Please clarify.
I totally agree that God tells us what to do....that is why it is important to understand the scriptures THE WAY GOD WANTS not the way we want. They should be harmonious thoughout, not contradictory and mysterious.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
This is not about God telling us what to do, but rather God doing with us as he wills.
"Has the potter no right over the clay?" is a quote from Romans 9:21. Read the context. With your theology you'll probably want to rip the page out of your Bible once you're done.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed I realize it's a quote from Rom 9:21 but what's your point?
The theology I have shown you has been strictly biblical. You haven't shown any scriptures in which contradict anything I have brought to your attention.
FairNskware 2 months ago
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@FairNskware
"but you may only die once to be put there"? There is resurrection for both the just and the unjust (Act 24:15). What you're saying is totally unbiblical.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
Yes, there is a resurrection for the just and unjust:
- the term “asleep” is applied in the Scriptures to those dying because of the death passed on from Adam. Those suffering the “second death” are not spoken of as asleep. Rather, they are shown to be completely annihilated, burned up as fire.Re 20:14, 15; Heb 10:26-31,where a contrast is made between the death of law and the much more severe punishment meted out to those who turn to a willful practice of sin; Heb 6:4-8.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware I missed a few words....it could be hard to understand without these few words..
where a contrast is made between "the death of those who violated the Mosaic Law"and the much more severe punishment meted out to those who turn to a willful practice of sin; Heb 6:4-8
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
The term "sleep" refers to the body, not the soul. (Daniel 12:2).
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Again, this say nothing of what you speak. The soul is not even mentioned. You added that!
(Daniel 12:2) And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
I haven't added anything. What Daniel 12:2 confirms is that what is asleep is not the soul, but the body. The soul/spirit departing from the body at death is supported in: Gen 35:18, Ps 31:5, Luke 23:43, 46, Acts 7:59, Phil 1:23-24, 2 Co 5:8, Rev 6:9, and 20:4.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed How does that even make sense. How can a lifeless body be asleep....It's the person who is in the body that is sleeping. Even a child can understand that a shoe doesnt fall a sleep but the foot in the shoe does?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Let's turn this around shall we: How can a lifeless, non-existent soul be asleep? Remember after death you said that a person doesn't exist any longer except in the memory banks of God... See how this doesn't make any sense either when taken literally, and how you are literally just saying anything now even if it makes your own belief look illogical.
"Sleep" however is symbolic of death only being temporary.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed It make sense to me? Yes death is likened to sleep because if you have the resurrection hope...you will wake up out of it...It's those who are alive who view the dead as sleeping temporarily. The dead don't know that they are dead as they are unconscious....like sleeping.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Yet the term 'sleep' in the Bible is never at attributed to the soul, only the body. Just as in our living state even when our bodies our sleep, we are always partially conscience, only away from the body, our subconsciousness is constantly active.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@FairNskware
These who are unjust will be resurrected to judgement and then thrown into the lake of fire. They are not resurrected to a second chance.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Show me in the bible where U are getting this?
Why would a loving God resurrect a person back to life then immediately throw him into the lake of fire? No,...HE WOULDNT...and the bible doesn't teach that any way...thankfully!!
There are many people thru out history who have died that had never had a chance to come to know God. These ones too are called unrighteous...but they will have a chance to come to God in the millenium. That is what the 1000 years are for? Rev20
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
We have just been looking at one of the very passages that speak of the unjust being resurrected into judgment...
John 5:27-29
And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, AND THOSE WHO HAVE DONE EVIL TO THE RESURRECTION OF JUDGMENT.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed There are different degrees of EVIL. Inherited sin is EVIL yet we are born in this EVILNESS. Then there is deliberate sin which is above and beyond our inherited EVIL imperfectness. Heb 6:8 is speaking of deliberate sin and John 5 is referring to ALL the inherited Evil adamic sinful people who have never had a chance to show if they agree with Christ and God or not. they will be judged on what they do in the 1000 years not on what they did before they died.Rev 20:12
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
"Inherited evil"?? And this is what John 5:29 is speaking of??
Is that why Jesus says "and those who HAVE DONE evil to the resurrection of judgment."??
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed You are splitting hairs. Adamic sin is quite different than deliberate sin. Yet it is still sin.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
I'm not splitting hairs. Adam's sin is in our flesh, death reigns because of the sin of Adam. However, we have all sinned
Romans 3:10-12
"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Yes, of course I agree. No one is righteous. We have all sinned.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Romans 2:14-16 shows all sin is recorded, whether it is according to law of Moses, the law of Muhammad, the law of Buddha, the law of the Pope, the law of the Watchtower, or the law of the individual, no one apart from grace is free from a law that condemns.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed “I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah.”1 Cor. 4:4
The moral nature we inherited that operates as a “law” or rule of conduct in people of all races and nationalities explains why God could justly hold not only his covenant people of Israel but the whole world of mankind ‘liable for punishment,’ and why, in the judgment, he can justly “render to each one according to his works.”Ro 2:6; 3:9,19.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Amen and amen again.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Those mentioned in Heb 6:4-8 will be among the unjust at the resurrection.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
Again, when you read the bible,..our God given brain can help us in piecing things together to get a rounded picture. So, when you read Heb 6:4-8, it is quite clear that these ones will NOT BE RESURRECTED...they are judged now....their death is final and what the bible calls the 2nd death. They will never live again. True Apostates get this 2nd death now.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Heb 6:8 says absolutely nothing about these ones not being resurrected to Judgment, all it says is "...its end is to be burned."
It's not same as John 3:18 saying "...but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
These passages say nothing of no resurrection, they only speak of the non believers inevitable end.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
So you agree that some are condemned already?...that was the point..we can move on.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Except, I recognize that even the condemned are resurrected, not to eternal life, however, but to judgment and eternal punishment.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed The Bible says: “The wages sin pays is death.” (Rom. 6:23) This means that when a person has died his sinful record no longer stands against him. And were it not for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and God’s purpose to resurrect the person, he would never live again. Still, he would remain acquitted from sin, as God would not repeatedly reexamine his case and then sentence him to other kinds of punishment for his sin. Rom 6:7
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
But, then the big question has to be asked again: What does it mean to die?
Ezekiel 18:20 says that "the soul who sins shall die" not the body. If physical death is simply that, the body, and the soul of a man lives on, then a resurrection of Judgment makes perfect sense. However, if physical death, means non-existence for the soul then this resurrection makes no sense at all.
And this is also exactly what is being spoken of in Matt 10:28. Man cannot kill the soul.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed " the soul who sins shall die"....the soul is the person, when the soul dies his body decomposes...its a shell. The person is a soul...either a live soul or dead soul. Animals are souls. They are either dead or live souls too. The difference with humans are that instead of being dead forever like animals,God will resurrect us because of Christ Sacrifice. If it wasn't for that, we would be dead like animals forever in the ground, dust...gone.That is what the bible teaches.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
That maybe what you believe, but the is nowhere supported in scripture, in fact it is refuted by Jesus' own words at Matthew 10:28 as well as in a number of other passages.
Ezekiel 18 is not about the body at all, in it were it would be false, as vs.21 continues on to says 'But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; HE SHALL NOT DIE.'
This is why context is so important.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "If physical death is simply that, the body, and the soul of a man lives on", then we don't need Jesus sacrifice. "However, if physical death, means non-existence for the soul" than we NEED a savior so that we can COME OUT of death...to a resurrection of life.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
On the contrary we do need Jesus' sacrifice, because physical death is not the end. All men die physically whether they be just or unjust. However, there is then the resurrection of eternal life for the just (because of Jesus' sacrifice) and the resurrection of Judgement for the unjust and this judgement will send them to Gehenna.
The question is why did Jesus die if our sin debt is paid at physical death, which comes to both the just and unjust?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna" Matt 10:28. A resurrection, therefore, is the hope for future life of those in God’s memory. Instead of remaining a dead soul indefinitely when your life force leaves you, there is the Scriptural hope that God will restore your life force, that you may be a living soul once again.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
So you're still saying that man CAN kill the soul? That's not what Jesus said.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed No.... man can not take away the prospect of a resurrection. That is was is signified as a soul...it is not an out of body type of thing. The soul is the the person, when he dies and becomes a dead soul, he goes to the ground and if he is in Gods memory he will be resurrected as once again become a living soul. That is what the bible teaches.
John 5:28,29 - note: " MEMORIAL tomb are those in God's memory"
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
John 5:28,29 reads "...for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will HEAR his voice and COME OUT, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
Come out? From God's memory? When they are "resurrected" is God going to forget about them?
Also how can a simply memory hear?
Rev 20:13 says, 'And the sea gave up the dead who were in it'
This sounds very different to simply the storage of memory.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed It's a figure of speech. Memories can't hear No, but its like they can when God resurrects them. My memories don't hear either but I do?? Does the sea live? No, but it gave up it's dead.
What it's saying is that these ones are NOT FORGOTTEN, they are LIKE they are alive to God because they are written in his memory....again not literally...but figuratively written.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Greek word 'mnēmeion' in John 5:28 has two different meanings:
1) Any visible object for preserving or recalling the memory of any person or thing
2) Simply a sepulchre or tomb
Given what is being said, plus taking into account the greater context of scripture as a whole it is only logical to conclude the Jesus in John 5 is speaking of a physical tomb, rather than a remembrance.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
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FairNskware 2 months ago
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@FairNskware forgot a word...hehe
Tomb represents WHERE the dead ones lie or SLEEP as it still does today. Memorial is the remembering of the dead...also as it still does today. It is quite clear! God will remember the dead ones in the graves/tombs.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
And I guess "memorial tomb" is also a figure of speech, as is the term "come out"... in fact is any of John 5:28,29 literal?
Can anything in the passage even remotely support what you're saying?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed What am I saying?
A memorial tomb is exactly what it says it is.... A place where the dead are put and remembered. YOU don't think God can remember who died?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
This "memorial" according to the Greek word 'mnēmeion' is "a VISIBLE OBJECT for preserving or recalling the memory of any person or thing"
What you're trying to establish is not what the passage is even suggesting let alone saying.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Again, what am I trying to establish? The Greek term used in John 5:28,29 here is properly translated “memorial tombs” and not simply “graves.” because it conveys the thought that the life record of the person who has died is remembered by God.
The dead are totally unconscious and do not have a soul that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14, 23, 24) Jesus will bring those asleep in death back to life again on earth.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
How does the word being translated 'memorial tombs' convey any type of concept that God remembers those who no longer exist? This Greek word refers to something physical or at least visual that TRIGGERS the remembrance of those dead. It has nothing to do with a storage of memory.
It's like the bread and the wine is to cause us to remember the sacrifice of Jesus for us.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed In all sincerity, I just don't understand where you are with this. I think the word memorial is self explanatory. God doesn't need triggers to remember something.
Are you saying the John 5:38,39 is to cause us to remember the dead when we see their tomb? If so...for what purpose?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Okay, obviously you are struggling with the Greek, so I'll try giving you the English definition of the word 'memorial':
1) A recognition of meritorious service
2) A written statement of facts submitted in conjunction with a petition to an authority
3) A structure erected to commemorate persons or events
Now do you see anything about the storage of memories?
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed Okay yes English is my first language and just so you are aware..the root word for memorial is memory.
In English Memory is defined as: 1 a : the power or process of recalling what has been learned b : the store of things learned and kept in the mind. ( websters dictionary)
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
If English is your first language then learn it. You cannot take the meaning of a word's root word and apply it to meaning of that word.
The purpose of a 'memorial' to trigger a memory not be that memory.
You are literally just saying anything to try and "win" this now. Try actually taking God's word seriously, and stop attempting to twist scripture to fit your unbiblical theology.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed "If English is your first language then learn it. You cannot take the meaning of a word's root word and apply it to meaning of that word."
Who made up that rule?..lol
FairNskware 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed This is how the insults from you guys start. It happens all the time when you get frustrated. Don't think I don't get frustrated too but the difference is...I still try to reason with you ...Please, if you think what you have is truth then show me where you feel I am in error. This is not about winning. It's about saving lives.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
John 5:27-29
"And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
So what you're saying is that when the scripture says " all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out" you believe it means that dead people are actually alive underground waiting to come up out of the ground when they actually hear which their decomposed ear, a certain command from Jesus?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
No. John 5:28,29 is in reference to their bodies not their souls.
As for decomposed bodies at the resurrection our bodies are made new.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed So if its only a reference to bodies, what your saying now is that there will be only bodies coming out without souls or people in them...." all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out" ...Zombies?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
No as the soul lives the body at death, it will return to it at the resurrection.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed But that is not what the scripture says at all in John 5:28,29. How do you get that?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
You're right it doesn't say that, but it supports what I have said. Don't forget you were the one who brought up the passage.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed What scriptures are being supported. I'd like to go thru them?
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
Matt 10:28
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed
What about Matt 10:28?
God is the only one who can bring back the dead soul. That is.. make them a live soul?
Remember the bible says Animals have souls too. How does that make sense in your theology? Explain please.
FairNskware 2 months ago
@FairNskware
There is a clear distinction made here between the body and the soul, and how man can only kill one but not the other.
Animals do not have souls, they have life in them sure, but no soul in the sense of a spirit that departs from them at death.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 months ago