@MrBrainsmaster Evolution does not have to explain the origin of life any more than the Boyle's law has to explain the origin of gases. The entire argument is just silly nonsense that only people thoroughly ignorant of science would take seriously for more than 10 seconds.
Evolution and abiogenesis are two different areas of study. Evolution explains mutation and the diversity of species. It goes to show how little creationists actually understand science.
I agree, and you make some good points. Scientists do disagree on macro evolution (basically we evolved from apes) but there is observable proof for micro evolution. It can even be replicated in the lab with bacteria. In fact breeding is a controlled form of evolution.
@TheFallibleFiend Answer my other statement. You said everything I said was ridiculous, which is not true. Assuming does not get you anywhere. It's more like: the 97% of dogmatic, indoctrinated scientists. Why are only 3% of creationists specialize in science? In science, it is almost a requirement to be atheist, to believe in the theory of evolution, especially in the study of biology. Any evidence I provide will be automatically rejected by you. I am out of this argument.
@CnChenn 97% of scientists are actually qualified. If creationists were qualified, they wouldn't need to misrepresent the facts, history, theories, laws, methods, and philosophy of science.
Do you understand what dogma and indoctrination are? Well, no, you don't, if you think they apply to the scientific method.
Science is the antithesis of dogma. Hardly anything we thought we understood scientifically a century ago hasn't undergone extensive revision or even outright disestablishment. This has been done on the basis of evidence, available to one and all. So it's not dogmatic.
On the other hand, Jews still believe what they believed thousands of years ago. Christians still believe what they did thousands of years ago. So do Hindus. So do Muslims. The central beliefs cannot be questioned, revised, or overturned: to do so is heretical and makes one an apostate. To differ, one must in effect abandon one's religion. They don't change. They just splinter. That's what dogma and indoctrination look like.
@TheFallibleFiend Why is the world so hypocritical? Your statement can be applied both ways so I wouldn't be talking. I was pointing out BlissByIgnorance's ignorance in his statement.
@TheFallibleFiend Yes it is. Our views differ from each other at an equal amount. Evolution has changed and adapted as proofs have been debunked. Yes, even some creationist proofs have been debunked but neither has been proven seriously wrong. Both evolution and creation are religions and are both scrambling to be supported with science. Seeing we are on the same plane of being "ignorant" but on the opposite spectrum, this argument can be concluded as pointless.
@CnChenn Everything you have said is ridiculous. Our views differ, because one is based on science and the other is based entirely on religion. Your ignorance of evolution does not translate to a weakness of evolution.
@TheFallibleFiend I beg to differ. What have I said is ridiculous? I didn't make up stuff on the top of my head to start an argument. Atheism is a religion, a belief that there is no God. Both can be proved or "disproved" with science. Now, if you were an agnostic, you would really have "no religion". Your statements do not translate to the weakness of my belief in creationism either. To sum it up, we will both see when we come to the end of our lives and die. Fair enough?
@CnChenn Atheism is not a religion. Atheism cannot be proved and does not need to be proved. Religions do need to be proved and can't. Atheism and evolution are not synonymous. Evolution is supported by the vast preponderance of available evidence and refuted by none. Creationism is a religious belief.
lol evoltion is just so funny i cant even hear the word "billion" without laughing. Not that its a stupid word or something but thats all they do is over use it and try to think of stupid little things that make absoulutly no sence at all!!!. evoltuionists really need to open there eyes :S some people are so stupid
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 nah we arent dumb we are just smart because we open are eyes and relize that there is a god instead of ignorant evolutionists who think the earth just fell togeather LOOOL ONE why is there not still people turning into monkeys? and TWO i can take all the parts of a car apart and throw them into outer space but that doesnt mean that there all just going to magicly fall togeather.. give me a break kid;P
@plutosarrow Evolution doesn't predict humans would turn into monkeys or vice versa. your comic book understanding of the subject is not evidence against it. your car is not a replicating system. Go back to the trailer park where they can recognize your genius.
@TheFallibleFiend first of all evolutionists believe in monkeys turning into humans so learn to back up your "little theries" second my car medophar makes ALOT of sence just because the pieces of something are floating around in space doesn't mean its all just going to magicly float togeather. and thats real mature to try to talk about people in trailer parks? your like what 40!?! grow up please and ask me this? how did space its self get there... exactly
@plutosarrow you have to be satire, but just incase... i'm a "evolutionist" just like i'm a "gravityist". "evolutionists" do not think we evolved from monkeys, only creations think we do. cars are not alive, and trying to get a car would mean you have a gaol, which evolution and the universe does not. i don't know how space got here and either do you, i just said there isn't a god, that's all. also, how do you know space didn't always exist? you have an idea there needs to be nothing before...
@plutosarrow ...something. that's not what the laws of thermodynamics say. when you suggest something, you need to back it up with proof. also, i'm 22, not 40.
@plutosarrow Your car metaphor is nonsense. Your car doesn't replicate. Nobody's talking about magic, except creationists. You think anything you can't understand is magic.
Nope. I'm actually 50! But thanks! I have no idea how space got here - but I can tell you one thing, saying, "It must be MAGIC!" is not an answer.
@TheFallibleFiend HAexactly you have no clue what your talking abought. so try to get a life instead of spending your time arguing with people on the internet ty
@plutosarrow As is typical of creationists, you're not sufficiently educated or knowledgeable to judge whether I know what I'm talking about. The comic book science you picked up on creationists websites is not real science.
@TheFallibleFiend lol first of all you don't even kno me your just making random assumptions of me from my comments and my critism ive given you wich you clearly can't handle. i have no clue why your so obsessed with commic books but im guessing that's were you get your beliefs of "evolution" from. you clearly have no clue what your talking about and get all of your information from youtube videos and vlogs so try to do some REAL research before making your next video please
@plutosarrow False. I'm not making random assumptions about you. I'm making a clear deduction from your statements. I get my knowledge of evolution from having read a basic text biology once, the origin of species 3 times, descent of man once, about a dozen other science books, including "What Evolution is" by Ernst Mayr, and my current reading of The Structure of Evolutionary theory by SJG. I have also read many dozens of articles from peer-reviewed and popular journals.
@plutosarrow I did not say you got your knowledge from comic books. I said your understanding amounted to comic book "knowledge," because you clearly haven't read any real science on the subject. What you "know" is nothing more than barbershop gossip.
@TheFallibleFiend lol bro i kno enough to kno that evolution is a joke and lie and a myth second your saying you don't even believe in evolution and your sticking up for it? thats really sad i feel sorry for you :(
@plutosarrow 1. The title of my video is ironic. 2. Lots of people "know" lots of things that are completely false. You say I have no clue and don't know what I'm talking about, but I've studied a lot - you haven't studied anything at all on the subject. You "know" a lot without ever having studied it. You tell me to do REAL research, but it's painfully obvious you've never done any research and would not, in fact, even recognize real research.
@TheFallibleFiend lol sorry i don't waste my time studying a false lie made up by ignorant scientist and ignorant morons like your self. just please leave me alone if i don't argue with 6 year old kids i doubt im going to argue with a grown man believing in monkeys turning into humans kthnxbye
@plutosarrow You said you know enough and that I have no clue and I get all my info from vlogs, etc. The fact is YOU have no clue and now you're trying to justify being an ignoramus. You're the one who is spouting off without any knowledge at all. You know it. I know it. The world knows it.
@plutosarrow And you know this from your vast knowledge of the subject? No, I'm not going to shut up on my own channel. Pull your ignorant head out of your backside. If you don't like what you're reading, leave.
@TheFallibleFiend i don't like to waste my time learning lies ther for i don't learning evolution so just because you like to troll people on youtube doesn't give you the right to try to call me dumb on a subject that i don't bother learning? ihave enough knoledge to kno what evoltuion is about it's clearly a lie made up by a lier SIMPLE and your clearly confused if evoltuion is real or not so if you want to kno if darwin was right just wait a few BILLION years!!!
@plutosarrow Yea, keep making excuses for being ignorant. You come to my channel and say some stupid shit, get spanked and then whine that I am trolling. Grow up, educate yourself .Someone has filled your head with bullcrap. Empty the crap and start over.
@TheFallibleFiend it's not some sort of excuse it's clearly just i don't like to waste my time learning your dumb little lies your trying to teach people. and you clearly have no idea what your talking about on the subject of evoltuion your just an imature grown man spending his time on youtube because you have no real life. if anybody needs to relise the truth its you
@plutosarrow yea. in your mind real science is insignificant compared to the awesome power of "because I said so!" Once again you demonstrate complete ignorance of just about every subject. Pull your head out and do some actual homework.
@TheFallibleFiend when did he ever say he had vast knoledge of evoltuion? you're just making random assumptions that you kno nothing about so if anybody needs to pull there head out of there backside it's you for ONE believing in something that is clearly so stupid that only exitists in fairytales such as ones made by walp disney and open your eyes to the undeniable truth that evoltuion truly makes no sence and there is a god.
@becauseibacktracedit Welcome, nitwit #2. Every message he has posted here has conveyed that he knows more than I do on the subject and more than the actual scientists - all without ever having studied at all. Just like you. The correctness of evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God. Everything you think you know about it is bullcrap. Somebody has filled your head with stupidity.
@plutosarrow " sorry i don't waste my time studying a false lie made up by ignorant scientist and ignorant morons like your self"
And yet you are here interacting with his channel and video. So which is it, are you not listening to TheFallibleFiend's argument and just reguritating your drivel (Trolling) or are you actually listening to his argument and wasting your time (Lying).
This argument is really old. They just don't realize that abiogenesis is NOT evolution!
Abiogenesis= origin of life from inanimate matter
Evolution by natural selection= Diversity in organism
And for those ID)iots who use 40 year old (already debunked) explanations to sustain your case that evolution is a lie, I suggest you read up on biology.. ALOT
Here's a question to the (ID)iots:
Where do you think our understanding about evolution will be if Charles Darwin didn't exist?
Yeah, fucking evolution sucks, It gave me a fucking extra useless finger at the end of my hand. fuck you evolution ima protest fuck you I am moving to what god says
I think this concept will soon become a huge deal on Earth in decades to come. It's all a big misunderstanding. For various reasons, religious folks have, without even considering it, totally denied any possibility of Evolution being true. They don't understand that Evolution could possibly just support their claims, perhaps because they don't want to give up their strict, literal interpretation of scripture. But soon the theory will be so developed it will be a matter of denying fact.
@Ben0dom Evolution is already considered a fact among knowledgeable scientists. Most lay people haven't put the effort into understanding this, and few K-12 students get sufficient info on it. Also, there is a massive political and religious campaign to misrepresent the facts.
@TheFallibleFiend that kind of just blows my mind. I am 49 and evolution was covered when i was in school. And am sure by grade 6-8 science. And when taking high school classes, you could take the basic science course or diversify and take chemistry, biology and physics. They were all my best classes, along with Math. ironically my worse class was english. and social studies got me into a shitload of problems, esp when discussing democracy vs communism. lol
Many biology professors in my department believe in a god and follow evolutionary theory. I love how creationists tie everything in together to claim a giant conspiracy theory.
I think that evolution should have to prove the existance of life, as well as the Universe. (these are termed chemical evolution, and cosmic evolution by scientists) As how can a species evolve without a way to become alive in the first place.
When you take God out of creation. Then that leaves a massive hole that Science has to fill in order to give a full and complete understanding on the world as we know it... To say otherwise will be liken to leave a house half built.
@Gilbertus1986 Science would like to address the origin of life and there is a field of study for that. It's called abiogenesis. No theory has to explain everything. One might as well argue that gravity is false because it doesn't explain the origin of mass.
@TheFallibleFiend Not true, since gravity can be observed and measured.. Hence it can be explained by science.. We can't observe, "evolution" nor the "big bang", and we cannot measure them. So a method to actually prove them falls out of Science's reach.. We can make a hypothesis, but that is all.
@Gilbertus1986 Nobody has ever "observed gravity" any more than we have "observed electrons." What we have observed are the "effects of gravity." Your message is nonsense, but moreover it's irrelevant to the point. The point is that "no scientific theory has to explain everything." ET doesn't have to explain the origin of life. Gravitational Theory needn't explain the origin of mass, genetic theory the origin of DNA, chemical theory the origin of chemicals.
@TheFallibleFiend Yes it does. There needs to be proof otherwise it is inference and assumption, not the make up of a THEORY, just a hypothesis. Since we can observe the effect of gravity, hence we can confirm its existance. I will agree that science can never FULLY "prove" something.
Otherwise what you are saying is that Science can't prove everything... I wish you could say that to other people, as they believe Science can prove everything...lol
@Gilbertus1986 Almost all of scientific knowledge is inference. "Proofs" exist in mathematics, not science. If we borrow the term "proof beyond reasonable doubt" from law, then evolution has been proven to that extent. Spewing stuff from creationist sources that you don't even understand does not constitute a refutation.
You do realize, I hope, that we INFER gravity, right?
Fact is, we've NEVER detected gravity at all. Not once. We can ONLY measure gravity's effect on objects, but we've never once measured or detected gravity itself. We don't know if it is a wave, a particle, etc. Nothing. Rather, we see it affect objects and then INFER its existence.
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Just wanted to make sure you actually knew that. The THEORY of gravity is based on inferences.
@NekoMouser YOU JUST SAID IT YOUR SELF>> WE CAN MEASURE GRAVITY!!! IF we can measure gravity then it is observed you fool! There is no proof of evolution, seriously palentologists will admit fossil evidence is sketchy, DNA is DESIGNED with complex processes of algorithmic engineering built into it, and you are telling me that it was all random
No, I said that we can measure gravity's EFFECT. We cannot and never have detected gravity itself.
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There is AMPLE proof of evolution and no, a paleontologist, would NOT say any such thing (I know two and they both deny your claim).
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There is zero evidence of design in DNA. And even if it were designed, it would be poorly so. Junk sections, flaws, mutations...that's your intelligent design? DNA is far, far better explained through iterative building than by intentional design.
@NekoMouser Would you like to quote your friends, please...
Stephen Jay Gould Prof of Geology and Palentology Harvard University-
"the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of Palentology. The evolutionary trees that adourn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils"
You DO realize how many times this quote mine has been shot out of the water, right?
"Transitions are often found in the fossil record. Preserved transitions are not common -- and should not be, according to our understanding of evolution (see next section) but they are not entirely wanting, as creationists often claim." - S.J. Gould
Gould consistently and extensively explained his position and the evidence for evolution, including transitional forms in the fossil record. Such abuse of his life's work is not merely dishonest, it is despicable.
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The full quote of the above refers ONLY to the relative scarcity of transitional fossils between SPECIFIC species;there is no lack of transitional fossils between major groups. And we've found MANY more fossils than Gould had in 1980--30 YEARS AGO--when he wrote that.
@TheFallibleFiend WTF dude... Yes one theory doesn't have to explain everything.. HOWEVER if evolution is true then God is not then if God is not then how did the universe begin, and what is our purpose etc etc... It brings in a big can of worms that cannot be proven by science. That is assuming evolution is true, yet it has NO REAL PROOF to verify itself.
@Gilbertus1986 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt.
Evolution has nothing to do with how life started or how the universe began. It only explains how life evolved from simple organisms to complex organisms once life STARTED on earth, however life started. The evolution vs. creationism debate is utterly irrelevant and you need to start looking at facts objectively, not subjectively. Even if intelligent design were true, that doesn't mean that it was your god that made us, it could be MILLIONS of possibilities. Read some science books.
@showbizjosh40 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt. read what TheFallibleFiend wrote and think about seriously what you just posted. afterwards you'll feel pretty stupid. what does science books have to do with the begining of life? nothing
@showbizjosh40 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt. Read what falliblefiend wrote and seriously think about what you just posted. Because afterwards you will feel pretty stupid. what does the creation of life have to do with science books? nothing. the big bang is pretty much a theroy to try and not just include god in our lifes but still is there proof it happened ? no, so in the end God wins!
why should evolution have to explain the existence of life?..evolution only explains the diversity of BIOLOGICAL entities..evolution can't occur if biological entities don't yet exist..the only way evolution can take action is if life already exists...u either don't understand evolution and how it only pertains to biology, or just aren't thinking enough.
Good points. Your correct in stating that creationists misapprehend the scope of scientific theories--particularly in the case of Darwinian evolution. They ask it to explain the origins of life when natural selection confines itself to explaining how life changes once it has already established itself on earth. It's obvious that creationists haven't even bothered to read the *title* of Darwin's work. It's called 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection'; not the origin of life.
There's no majic to be explained, we are finite being's, God is infanite, we do not know the things of God.
We know for sure that matter itself as well as energy can not be created, there is NO system known to science that can tell us how matter got here, we need to look elsewhere for the answer, the answer has to lie in a super natural creator, this would explain it and its easier to believe thru common sensicle eyes and thought.
@AronRaHAHAHA "God" is magic. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation. Some form of matter might always have existed. That I don't know for certain doesn't make magical god any less of a non- answer.
As I said to you earlier, God is infanite, how can a finite human understand things of an infanite nature?
Let us look at the facts, thats all we can go by. We do not know where matter/energy came from, only a creator could do it. Where did the elements come from? We do not know. How did the planets/stars form? we do not know. How did life begin? We do not know. Could life evolve in an atmosphere which would of been poisonous to life? No.
@AronRaHAHAHA I never said we could "understand" the "infinite nature of god." That doesn' t make it any less magic. We don't know that it had to "come from anywhere." It might well have already existed. It might have come from some other even more basic matter (virtual particles, e.g.).
@AronRaHAHAHA We understand that most of the elements were formed in stars. The planets and stars condensed out of a big bang. Life began by abiogenesis. Your last question is nonsensical.
We need to try and understand where the matter came from to make the so called singularity which has not been proven, matter and energy just does not appear from no where, it had to come from a source, and the only viable source has to be the creator, its the only logical explanation. You said to me and it was a little disrespectful that the God account was majic as we did not observe it, I also could say to you that the big bang was majic as we also did not see this.
@AronRaHAHAHA Nobody says that it appeared from nowhere. God is the ultimate magician, not because we can't see him, but because he allegedly transcends Nature.
Tell what was it that appeared? where did it come from?
To suppose the universe matter and energy came out of a singularity and a big bang is obsurd, all matter has a beginning, it had to come from some where, as I have said on many occasions we do not know of ANY system present that can make matter from nothing.
It is impossible, the only logical explanation is the creator which we knew all along. Why should we doubt?
@AronRaHAHAHA Nothing "just appeared." Something always existed. We don't know that "all matter had a beginning." That is supposition on your part. Where science stops, religion and philosophy attempt to fill the gap. Logic is a mystery to you.
This is rediculous, to say something has always existed is like me saying I was never born but I am here. Science can not fill the gaps, it tries to by inventing evolution and the big bang which is NOT science, the truth has been given to us, you don't want to know and this is typical of most evolutionists. They deny what we have been told for thousands of yrs.
Evolution is not related to the big bang. No scientific theory has to explain everything. What you want is certainty with no evidence. Science gives us plenty of evidence without certainty. Your birth is not equivalent to the existence of matter. Logic is a mystery to you.
From an evolutionary perspective the big bang is the evolution of the cosmos.
However I do not buy into this religious thought as the evidence we have and the false claime being banded around only go to show that man wants to dissmiss the creator above most thing's. To the man who uses common sense it's easy to see that we did not arrive via evolution.
@AronRaHAHAHA There is strong evidence for a Big Bang. It's not related to evolution or an "evolutionary perspective." Neither Big Bang nor biological evolution precludes the existence of a God. Common Sense is not very useful in science as it's as likely to lead one astray as not.
For evidence of big bang, search on "evidence for big bang" and click the talkorigins link. They include references to primary literature that's not 100 years out of date (as creationists commonly do).
Evidence for evolution - nested hierarchies of ERVs in clades. (Yes, I know you can link to arguments against on creationist websites, but they're wrong and even just plain idiotic.)
Another FACT is that we cant assume that matter and energy came from somewhere. If how something exists is the issue at hand, then you can't excuse God by saying he can exist infinitely. Creationists often show that they arent really interested in asking the question of existence, so much as shoehorning their God into the picture. If you can say that something like God can exist forever, then you can say that for anything, period.
@AronRaHAHAHA Albert E was not right about everything. Disagreeing with him doesn't make one smart or dumb. More likely you don't understand or care to understand a whit about what he wrote.
It was all condensed into a singularity, along with space itself. Beyond that event everything is speculation, the idea that it came from somewhere is a human projected idea: Common sense can only go so far, it helps us understand the human world but isnt built to deal with aspects of our universe that go beyond our senses, like quantum physics. Common sense can only fail you where the supernatural is involved, by the definition of these terms.
It was all? what was "it was all"? how did "it was all" get there? where ever there is.
When man has no answer he tries to think some thing up, it could be religion or it could be evolution.
Either way one of us is right, there is no other way, we do not see or know what it was that made all matter, but one thing's for sure it was not a natural physical event.
I side on the side of rationality, we can not dismiss a creator.
You keep thinking in false terms like "how did it get there" that's based on a assumption that it had to come from somewhere. How did GOD get there???? "Where ever there is" There was no 'where' because space itself was condensed, it wasnt in a place, everything you can call 'where' was in one place, get it? I'm going to refute creationism in a new post, keep an eye out for it.
Now we are not going to understand this but it's a possibility.
If God is who He says He is then He has always been present, but He is not made from matter like we are, all matter has to have a beginning in this 3 d universe, that stands for reason, we know that matter/energy can not be created or destroyed (1st law) so again it had to be made by a creator if it's matter based. So why do we not see other singularities expanding today? This theory has problems.
If you want to address the question of how life became so diverse on our planet, where to begin? Well, let's look at what life does, since life is what is being addressed. Life reproduces, with genetic variation, and natural selection. We can observe this happening right now. What can we NOT observe? Animals being magically created already formed. Life tells us how it got here by doing what it does every day. Instead of looking at life, you are looking at an old book. hmm.
The genetic variation is not added to, it can only mutate and most mutations are harmfull and the others are of no benifit.
I agree with micro evolution but I do not agree with macro, our dna has limits, all laws have limits, our cells are no different, we do not have to see animals majically being made, as all has been created, what we do see are variations of the same kind just like scripture says would happen.
Now you are just repeating the same creationist lies that have been refuted over and over. Look, go read a book, man. It's all there. I'm not that educated on these subjects but even I can see where you are getting things seriously wrong. See, I dont really care if you believe in God, but I care about people spreading false science. There is no infomration after the Biig Bang, and we know beyond a reasonable doubt that we evolved. that is what hundreds of years of science has figured out.
You do not know there lies, (unless you've found a break through that science does'nt know of)
Where did the information come from for one species to evolve? Where did the intelligence come from to make the first cell which is far more complex than anything we see or have seen? And you think evolution has all the answers, it has none, its an old ancient badly thought out theory, its a drag-net to drag millions of people into hell.
God had to create space. This was so there would be somewhere for God to put everything after He had created it.
God did not have a beginning. He created time, space, matter, and light. We can trust this, because He says His thoughts are higher than our thoughts in Isaiah 55:9
You know "enough" to say silly stuff. You don't have any coherent understanding of the subject. You start with y our religious conviction and "reason" backwards. You don't have any idea what a rational mind would think. You don't know enough, but like most thoroughly ignorant people, you think you do. Science is harder than religion.
I have not got religion, I have a very simple faith like most folks in the States, the problem with you is this: You have no faith for several resons,
1) you can't see God so He can't exist. 2) This then feeds your selfish addictions and because you think God's not there you think you have gotten away with it. Well I'm afraid you havn't, God and the angels are there watching and recording, think on that.
Man is not "making these claims." Scientists are finding evidence and presenting it. Creationism is no explanation at all. It's a manifestation of intellectual laziness.
Aron said that "matter has always been present" this simply does not add up, there has to be some system in place to make matter, it has not always been present.
Thats why "God had to do it" there is no other way..
Matter is energy in a different state. The ratio of elements and the background radiation were predicted by the big bang theory, then tested and supported the theory.
Because we do not have 100% knowledge of the causation of the big bang doesn't mean it didn't happen or that god did it.
They used not to understand disease and think that god did it, now we have the germ theory. You seem to be using the god the gaps argument.
Evolution tries to explain these things but its main objective is to "do away with the creator"
Creation is what it is, we see a creation and its self explanatory.
You don't need science to explain creation, we can study from it and learn how the flood layed down new rock layers in differing forms, and stuff like that.
The objective of evolution is not to do away with a creator. You have nothing to back that up. Evolution doesn't have an objective other than to explain certain phenomena. Creationism doesn't explain anything. Chalking it up to magic is not an explanation.
You're not just making an ad ignorantium argument. You're arguing in favor of remaining ignorant and ignoring knowledge.
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@TheFallibleFiend Even the Catholic church accepts evolution, with the addition that it was a process designed and guided by God.
MrSitemaster2 2 weeks ago
You are sooo right!
Noah's ark is true...
watch?v=XT4bsbiReDU&feature=related
bernzeppi 1 month ago
LOl i've never heard that argument before...
YTdiscusser 3 months ago
No, it's more like: "Evolution can't explain the origin of life, so let's not assume an organic cell can fall into place by accident."
blattt188 3 months ago
@blattt188 This is irrelevant to evolution as the video explains.
TheFallibleFiend 3 months ago
@TheFallibleFiend it's relevant to the first part of what you were saying. and so true even still.
blattt188 3 months ago
Does evolution have to explain the origin or life? YES!!!!!!!!
Why doesn't chemistry explain the origin of atoms? Because they take a page out of the evolutionary book which CANT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE.
MrBrainsmaster 6 months ago
@MrBrainsmaster Thank you for expressing your comic book understanding of science.
TheFallibleFiend 6 months ago
Does evolution have to explain the origin or life? YES!!!!!!!!
Why doesnt chemistry explain the origin of atoms? Because they take a page out of the evolutionary book which CANT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE.
MrBrainsmaster 6 months ago
@MrBrainsmaster Evolution does not have to explain the origin of life any more than the Boyle's law has to explain the origin of gases. The entire argument is just silly nonsense that only people thoroughly ignorant of science would take seriously for more than 10 seconds.
TheFallibleFiend 3 months ago
Evolution and abiogenesis are two different areas of study. Evolution explains mutation and the diversity of species. It goes to show how little creationists actually understand science.
TelegramZero 1 year ago 3
THe gas laws were developed just as the world was faced with the Industrial revolution, powered by James Watt's steam engines.
Boyles Law states, 'Watts potts never Boyle'.
gamesbok 1 year ago
christianity ftw
plutosarrow 1 year ago
I agree, and you make some good points. Scientists do disagree on macro evolution (basically we evolved from apes) but there is observable proof for micro evolution. It can even be replicated in the lab with bacteria. In fact breeding is a controlled form of evolution.
techman92 1 year ago
@techman92 Scientists don't disagree about whether macroevolution actually occurs.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend You're speaking on behalf of the 97% of scientists that believe in evolution? What about the other 3%?
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn The 3% of incompetent religious kooks?
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Answer my other statement. You said everything I said was ridiculous, which is not true. Assuming does not get you anywhere. It's more like: the 97% of dogmatic, indoctrinated scientists. Why are only 3% of creationists specialize in science? In science, it is almost a requirement to be atheist, to believe in the theory of evolution, especially in the study of biology. Any evidence I provide will be automatically rejected by you. I am out of this argument.
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn 97% of scientists are actually qualified. If creationists were qualified, they wouldn't need to misrepresent the facts, history, theories, laws, methods, and philosophy of science.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@CnChenn "dogmatic, indoctrinated scientists"
Do you understand what dogma and indoctrination are? Well, no, you don't, if you think they apply to the scientific method.
Science is the antithesis of dogma. Hardly anything we thought we understood scientifically a century ago hasn't undergone extensive revision or even outright disestablishment. This has been done on the basis of evidence, available to one and all. So it's not dogmatic.
(cont'd)
PatchesRips 1 year ago
(cont'd)
On the other hand, Jews still believe what they believed thousands of years ago. Christians still believe what they did thousands of years ago. So do Hindus. So do Muslims. The central beliefs cannot be questioned, revised, or overturned: to do so is heretical and makes one an apostate. To differ, one must in effect abandon one's religion. They don't change. They just splinter. That's what dogma and indoctrination look like.
PatchesRips 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend haha true. What i should have said even if you dont accept macroevolution, micro evolution is an observable fact.
techman92 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend just grow up plz your a grown man stop believing in fairytals
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow Or you could try educating yourself.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend lol look whos talking ~.^
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFienddont start O.o
MichaelRyanKinney 1 year ago
Evolution is wrong because I have only heard about it from the liberal school system that uses propaganda to teach evolution is right.
The school system is shoving evolution down students' throats and saying it is right while it is a religious sect that believe there is no god.
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn The fault of your profound personal ignorance lies with no one but yourself.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Why is the world so hypocritical? Your statement can be applied both ways so I wouldn't be talking. I was pointing out BlissByIgnorance's ignorance in his statement.
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn I think BlissByIgnorance was being ironical. I take your comment as serious. The "two sides" are not equal.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Yes it is. Our views differ from each other at an equal amount. Evolution has changed and adapted as proofs have been debunked. Yes, even some creationist proofs have been debunked but neither has been proven seriously wrong. Both evolution and creation are religions and are both scrambling to be supported with science. Seeing we are on the same plane of being "ignorant" but on the opposite spectrum, this argument can be concluded as pointless.
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn Everything you have said is ridiculous. Our views differ, because one is based on science and the other is based entirely on religion. Your ignorance of evolution does not translate to a weakness of evolution.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend I beg to differ. What have I said is ridiculous? I didn't make up stuff on the top of my head to start an argument. Atheism is a religion, a belief that there is no God. Both can be proved or "disproved" with science. Now, if you were an agnostic, you would really have "no religion". Your statements do not translate to the weakness of my belief in creationism either. To sum it up, we will both see when we come to the end of our lives and die. Fair enough?
CnChenn 1 year ago
@CnChenn Atheism is not a religion. Atheism cannot be proved and does not need to be proved. Religions do need to be proved and can't. Atheism and evolution are not synonymous. Evolution is supported by the vast preponderance of available evidence and refuted by none. Creationism is a religious belief.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
Evolution is wrong because I haven't heard anything about it except for religous propaganda.
BlissByIgnorance 1 year ago
lol evoltion is just so funny i cant even hear the word "billion" without laughing. Not that its a stupid word or something but thats all they do is over use it and try to think of stupid little things that make absoulutly no sence at all!!!. evoltuionists really need to open there eyes :S some people are so stupid
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow Of course careful reasoning over meticulously collected data are insignificant compared to the awesome power of "because I said so."
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@plutosarrow some ppl are stupid, they are creationists.
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago
@FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 nah we arent dumb we are just smart because we open are eyes and relize that there is a god instead of ignorant evolutionists who think the earth just fell togeather LOOOL ONE why is there not still people turning into monkeys? and TWO i can take all the parts of a car apart and throw them into outer space but that doesnt mean that there all just going to magicly fall togeather.. give me a break kid;P
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow Evolution doesn't predict humans would turn into monkeys or vice versa. your comic book understanding of the subject is not evidence against it. your car is not a replicating system. Go back to the trailer park where they can recognize your genius.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend first of all evolutionists believe in monkeys turning into humans so learn to back up your "little theries" second my car medophar makes ALOT of sence just because the pieces of something are floating around in space doesn't mean its all just going to magicly float togeather. and thats real mature to try to talk about people in trailer parks? your like what 40!?! grow up please and ask me this? how did space its self get there... exactly
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow you have to be satire, but just incase... i'm a "evolutionist" just like i'm a "gravityist". "evolutionists" do not think we evolved from monkeys, only creations think we do. cars are not alive, and trying to get a car would mean you have a gaol, which evolution and the universe does not. i don't know how space got here and either do you, i just said there isn't a god, that's all. also, how do you know space didn't always exist? you have an idea there needs to be nothing before...
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago
@plutosarrow ...something. that's not what the laws of thermodynamics say. when you suggest something, you need to back it up with proof. also, i'm 22, not 40.
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago
@plutosarrow Your car metaphor is nonsense. Your car doesn't replicate. Nobody's talking about magic, except creationists. You think anything you can't understand is magic.
Nope. I'm actually 50! But thanks! I have no idea how space got here - but I can tell you one thing, saying, "It must be MAGIC!" is not an answer.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend HAexactly you have no clue what your talking abought. so try to get a life instead of spending your time arguing with people on the internet ty
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow As is typical of creationists, you're not sufficiently educated or knowledgeable to judge whether I know what I'm talking about. The comic book science you picked up on creationists websites is not real science.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend lol first of all you don't even kno me your just making random assumptions of me from my comments and my critism ive given you wich you clearly can't handle. i have no clue why your so obsessed with commic books but im guessing that's were you get your beliefs of "evolution" from. you clearly have no clue what your talking about and get all of your information from youtube videos and vlogs so try to do some REAL research before making your next video please
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow False. I'm not making random assumptions about you. I'm making a clear deduction from your statements. I get my knowledge of evolution from having read a basic text biology once, the origin of species 3 times, descent of man once, about a dozen other science books, including "What Evolution is" by Ernst Mayr, and my current reading of The Structure of Evolutionary theory by SJG. I have also read many dozens of articles from peer-reviewed and popular journals.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@plutosarrow I did not say you got your knowledge from comic books. I said your understanding amounted to comic book "knowledge," because you clearly haven't read any real science on the subject. What you "know" is nothing more than barbershop gossip.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago 2
@TheFallibleFiend lol bro i kno enough to kno that evolution is a joke and lie and a myth second your saying you don't even believe in evolution and your sticking up for it? thats really sad i feel sorry for you :(
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow 1. The title of my video is ironic. 2. Lots of people "know" lots of things that are completely false. You say I have no clue and don't know what I'm talking about, but I've studied a lot - you haven't studied anything at all on the subject. You "know" a lot without ever having studied it. You tell me to do REAL research, but it's painfully obvious you've never done any research and would not, in fact, even recognize real research.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend lol sorry i don't waste my time studying a false lie made up by ignorant scientist and ignorant morons like your self. just please leave me alone if i don't argue with 6 year old kids i doubt im going to argue with a grown man believing in monkeys turning into humans kthnxbye
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow You said you know enough and that I have no clue and I get all my info from vlogs, etc. The fact is YOU have no clue and now you're trying to justify being an ignoramus. You're the one who is spouting off without any knowledge at all. You know it. I know it. The world knows it.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend you clearly don't kno what your talking about so please just shut up thank you :)
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow And you know this from your vast knowledge of the subject? No, I'm not going to shut up on my own channel. Pull your ignorant head out of your backside. If you don't like what you're reading, leave.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend i don't like to waste my time learning lies ther for i don't learning evolution so just because you like to troll people on youtube doesn't give you the right to try to call me dumb on a subject that i don't bother learning? ihave enough knoledge to kno what evoltuion is about it's clearly a lie made up by a lier SIMPLE and your clearly confused if evoltuion is real or not so if you want to kno if darwin was right just wait a few BILLION years!!!
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow Yea, keep making excuses for being ignorant. You come to my channel and say some stupid shit, get spanked and then whine that I am trolling. Grow up, educate yourself .Someone has filled your head with bullcrap. Empty the crap and start over.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend it's not some sort of excuse it's clearly just i don't like to waste my time learning your dumb little lies your trying to teach people. and you clearly have no idea what your talking about on the subject of evoltuion your just an imature grown man spending his time on youtube because you have no real life. if anybody needs to relise the truth its you
plutosarrow 1 year ago
@plutosarrow yea. in your mind real science is insignificant compared to the awesome power of "because I said so!" Once again you demonstrate complete ignorance of just about every subject. Pull your head out and do some actual homework.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend when did he ever say he had vast knoledge of evoltuion? you're just making random assumptions that you kno nothing about so if anybody needs to pull there head out of there backside it's you for ONE believing in something that is clearly so stupid that only exitists in fairytales such as ones made by walp disney and open your eyes to the undeniable truth that evoltuion truly makes no sence and there is a god.
becauseibacktracedit 1 year ago
@becauseibacktracedit Welcome, nitwit #2. Every message he has posted here has conveyed that he knows more than I do on the subject and more than the actual scientists - all without ever having studied at all. Just like you. The correctness of evolution has nothing to do with the existence of God. Everything you think you know about it is bullcrap. Somebody has filled your head with stupidity.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@plutosarrow
you clearly are a inbred.
sykeo123 1 year ago
@sykeo123 That's not necessary. He's wrong. He's gone. That's the end of it.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@plutosarrow " sorry i don't waste my time studying a false lie made up by ignorant scientist and ignorant morons like your self"
And yet you are here interacting with his channel and video. So which is it, are you not listening to TheFallibleFiend's argument and just reguritating your drivel (Trolling) or are you actually listening to his argument and wasting your time (Lying).
RosieDesire 1 year ago
Evolution did fail I mean just look at u.
zarassien 1 year ago
@zarassien hardy har ... har har ... har.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
This argument is really old. They just don't realize that abiogenesis is NOT evolution!
Abiogenesis= origin of life from inanimate matter
Evolution by natural selection= Diversity in organism
And for those ID)iots who use 40 year old (already debunked) explanations to sustain your case that evolution is a lie, I suggest you read up on biology.. ALOT
Here's a question to the (ID)iots:
Where do you think our understanding about evolution will be if Charles Darwin didn't exist?
zh1412 1 year ago
Yeah, fucking evolution sucks, It gave me a fucking extra useless finger at the end of my hand. fuck you evolution ima protest fuck you I am moving to what god says
MultiIPwnage 1 year ago
I think this concept will soon become a huge deal on Earth in decades to come. It's all a big misunderstanding. For various reasons, religious folks have, without even considering it, totally denied any possibility of Evolution being true. They don't understand that Evolution could possibly just support their claims, perhaps because they don't want to give up their strict, literal interpretation of scripture. But soon the theory will be so developed it will be a matter of denying fact.
Ben0dom 1 year ago
@Ben0dom Evolution is already considered a fact among knowledgeable scientists. Most lay people haven't put the effort into understanding this, and few K-12 students get sufficient info on it. Also, there is a massive political and religious campaign to misrepresent the facts.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend that kind of just blows my mind. I am 49 and evolution was covered when i was in school. And am sure by grade 6-8 science. And when taking high school classes, you could take the basic science course or diversify and take chemistry, biology and physics. They were all my best classes, along with Math. ironically my worse class was english. and social studies got me into a shitload of problems, esp when discussing democracy vs communism. lol
zeineguy 1 year ago
Many biology professors in my department believe in a god and follow evolutionary theory. I love how creationists tie everything in together to claim a giant conspiracy theory.
Ramshobraja 1 year ago
I think that evolution should have to prove the existance of life, as well as the Universe. (these are termed chemical evolution, and cosmic evolution by scientists) As how can a species evolve without a way to become alive in the first place.
When you take God out of creation. Then that leaves a massive hole that Science has to fill in order to give a full and complete understanding on the world as we know it... To say otherwise will be liken to leave a house half built.
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 Science would like to address the origin of life and there is a field of study for that. It's called abiogenesis. No theory has to explain everything. One might as well argue that gravity is false because it doesn't explain the origin of mass.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Not true, since gravity can be observed and measured.. Hence it can be explained by science.. We can't observe, "evolution" nor the "big bang", and we cannot measure them. So a method to actually prove them falls out of Science's reach.. We can make a hypothesis, but that is all.
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 Nobody has ever "observed gravity" any more than we have "observed electrons." What we have observed are the "effects of gravity." Your message is nonsense, but moreover it's irrelevant to the point. The point is that "no scientific theory has to explain everything." ET doesn't have to explain the origin of life. Gravitational Theory needn't explain the origin of mass, genetic theory the origin of DNA, chemical theory the origin of chemicals.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Yes it does. There needs to be proof otherwise it is inference and assumption, not the make up of a THEORY, just a hypothesis. Since we can observe the effect of gravity, hence we can confirm its existance. I will agree that science can never FULLY "prove" something.
Otherwise what you are saying is that Science can't prove everything... I wish you could say that to other people, as they believe Science can prove everything...lol
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 Almost all of scientific knowledge is inference. "Proofs" exist in mathematics, not science. If we borrow the term "proof beyond reasonable doubt" from law, then evolution has been proven to that extent. Spewing stuff from creationist sources that you don't even understand does not constitute a refutation.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986
.
You do realize, I hope, that we INFER gravity, right?
Fact is, we've NEVER detected gravity at all. Not once. We can ONLY measure gravity's effect on objects, but we've never once measured or detected gravity itself. We don't know if it is a wave, a particle, etc. Nothing. Rather, we see it affect objects and then INFER its existence.
.
Just wanted to make sure you actually knew that. The THEORY of gravity is based on inferences.
NekoMouser 1 year ago
@NekoMouser YOU JUST SAID IT YOUR SELF>> WE CAN MEASURE GRAVITY!!! IF we can measure gravity then it is observed you fool! There is no proof of evolution, seriously palentologists will admit fossil evidence is sketchy, DNA is DESIGNED with complex processes of algorithmic engineering built into it, and you are telling me that it was all random
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986
No, I said that we can measure gravity's EFFECT. We cannot and never have detected gravity itself.
.
There is AMPLE proof of evolution and no, a paleontologist, would NOT say any such thing (I know two and they both deny your claim).
.
There is zero evidence of design in DNA. And even if it were designed, it would be poorly so. Junk sections, flaws, mutations...that's your intelligent design? DNA is far, far better explained through iterative building than by intentional design.
NekoMouser 1 year ago
@NekoMouser Would you like to quote your friends, please...
Stephen Jay Gould Prof of Geology and Palentology Harvard University-
"the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of Palentology. The evolutionary trees that adourn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils"
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986
You DO realize how many times this quote mine has been shot out of the water, right?
"Transitions are often found in the fossil record. Preserved transitions are not common -- and should not be, according to our understanding of evolution (see next section) but they are not entirely wanting, as creationists often claim." - S.J. Gould
NekoMouser 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986
Gould consistently and extensively explained his position and the evidence for evolution, including transitional forms in the fossil record. Such abuse of his life's work is not merely dishonest, it is despicable.
.
The full quote of the above refers ONLY to the relative scarcity of transitional fossils between SPECIFIC species;there is no lack of transitional fossils between major groups. And we've found MANY more fossils than Gould had in 1980--30 YEARS AGO--when he wrote that.
NekoMouser 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 you're not paying attention.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend WTF dude... Yes one theory doesn't have to explain everything.. HOWEVER if evolution is true then God is not then if God is not then how did the universe begin, and what is our purpose etc etc... It brings in a big can of worms that cannot be proven by science. That is assuming evolution is true, yet it has NO REAL PROOF to verify itself.
Gilbertus1986 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago 2
Evolution has nothing to do with how life started or how the universe began. It only explains how life evolved from simple organisms to complex organisms once life STARTED on earth, however life started. The evolution vs. creationism debate is utterly irrelevant and you need to start looking at facts objectively, not subjectively. Even if intelligent design were true, that doesn't mean that it was your god that made us, it could be MILLIONS of possibilities. Read some science books.
showbizjosh40 1 year ago 2
@showbizjosh40 It's not clear to whom you addressed this comment; however, I agree.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@TheFallibleFiend Sorry, I was referring to Gilbertus1986. Nice video though mate =)
showbizjosh40 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@showbizjosh40 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt. read what TheFallibleFiend wrote and think about seriously what you just posted. afterwards you'll feel pretty stupid. what does science books have to do with the begining of life? nothing
Feralreaper16 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@showbizjosh40 Evolution is not related to God. If evolution is true, then God could be true or false. Evolution has proof far beyond a reasonable doubt. Read what falliblefiend wrote and seriously think about what you just posted. Because afterwards you will feel pretty stupid. what does the creation of life have to do with science books? nothing. the big bang is pretty much a theroy to try and not just include god in our lifes but still is there proof it happened ? no, so in the end God wins!
Feralreaper16 1 year ago
@showbizjosh40 even plants?
roflzi 1 year ago
@roflzi Yes.
GodofCider 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986 "God did it," even if it is true, will never, ever be a scientific explanation.
The existence of God is unrelated to the correctness of evolutionary theory.
TheFallibleFiend 1 year ago
@Gilbertus1986
why should evolution have to explain the existence of life?..evolution only explains the diversity of BIOLOGICAL entities..evolution can't occur if biological entities don't yet exist..the only way evolution can take action is if life already exists...u either don't understand evolution and how it only pertains to biology, or just aren't thinking enough.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
Good points. Your correct in stating that creationists misapprehend the scope of scientific theories--particularly in the case of Darwinian evolution. They ask it to explain the origins of life when natural selection confines itself to explaining how life changes once it has already established itself on earth. It's obvious that creationists haven't even bothered to read the *title* of Darwin's work. It's called 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection'; not the origin of life.
crocaduck 2 years ago
Why is everyone feeding the troll?
f00ky3w2oob 2 years ago
I think its silly to think we came from a single cell.
How did the cell survive in a dead atmosphere?
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA I think it's silly to think that because you don't know the answer to a question that therefore magic is the best explanation.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
There's no majic to be explained, we are finite being's, God is infanite, we do not know the things of God.
We know for sure that matter itself as well as energy can not be created, there is NO system known to science that can tell us how matter got here, we need to look elsewhere for the answer, the answer has to lie in a super natural creator, this would explain it and its easier to believe thru common sensicle eyes and thought.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA "God" is magic. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation. Some form of matter might always have existed. That I don't know for certain doesn't make magical god any less of a non- answer.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
As I said to you earlier, God is infanite, how can a finite human understand things of an infanite nature?
Let us look at the facts, thats all we can go by. We do not know where matter/energy came from, only a creator could do it. Where did the elements come from? We do not know. How did the planets/stars form? we do not know. How did life begin? We do not know. Could life evolve in an atmosphere which would of been poisonous to life? No.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA I never said we could "understand" the "infinite nature of god." That doesn' t make it any less magic. We don't know that it had to "come from anywhere." It might well have already existed. It might have come from some other even more basic matter (virtual particles, e.g.).
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA We understand that most of the elements were formed in stars. The planets and stars condensed out of a big bang. Life began by abiogenesis. Your last question is nonsensical.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
We need to try and understand where the matter came from to make the so called singularity which has not been proven, matter and energy just does not appear from no where, it had to come from a source, and the only viable source has to be the creator, its the only logical explanation. You said to me and it was a little disrespectful that the God account was majic as we did not observe it, I also could say to you that the big bang was majic as we also did not see this.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA Nobody says that it appeared from nowhere. God is the ultimate magician, not because we can't see him, but because he allegedly transcends Nature.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Tell what was it that appeared? where did it come from?
To suppose the universe matter and energy came out of a singularity and a big bang is obsurd, all matter has a beginning, it had to come from some where, as I have said on many occasions we do not know of ANY system present that can make matter from nothing.
It is impossible, the only logical explanation is the creator which we knew all along. Why should we doubt?
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA Nothing "just appeared." Something always existed. We don't know that "all matter had a beginning." That is supposition on your part. Where science stops, religion and philosophy attempt to fill the gap. Logic is a mystery to you.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
This is rediculous, to say something has always existed is like me saying I was never born but I am here. Science can not fill the gaps, it tries to by inventing evolution and the big bang which is NOT science, the truth has been given to us, you don't want to know and this is typical of most evolutionists. They deny what we have been told for thousands of yrs.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Evolution is not related to the big bang. No scientific theory has to explain everything. What you want is certainty with no evidence. Science gives us plenty of evidence without certainty. Your birth is not equivalent to the existence of matter. Logic is a mystery to you.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
From an evolutionary perspective the big bang is the evolution of the cosmos.
However I do not buy into this religious thought as the evidence we have and the false claime being banded around only go to show that man wants to dissmiss the creator above most thing's. To the man who uses common sense it's easy to see that we did not arrive via evolution.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA There is strong evidence for a Big Bang. It's not related to evolution or an "evolutionary perspective." Neither Big Bang nor biological evolution precludes the existence of a God. Common Sense is not very useful in science as it's as likely to lead one astray as not.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
You tell me what evidence there is of the big bang, and macro evolution.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA You don' t know how to use google?
For evidence of big bang, search on "evidence for big bang" and click the talkorigins link. They include references to primary literature that's not 100 years out of date (as creationists commonly do).
Evidence for evolution - nested hierarchies of ERVs in clades. (Yes, I know you can link to arguments against on creationist websites, but they're wrong and even just plain idiotic.)
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Another FACT is that we cant assume that matter and energy came from somewhere. If how something exists is the issue at hand, then you can't excuse God by saying he can exist infinitely. Creationists often show that they arent really interested in asking the question of existence, so much as shoehorning their God into the picture. If you can say that something like God can exist forever, then you can say that for anything, period.
Staunts 2 years ago
God is not a matter made being, all thing's observed if they are made from matter must have a beginning and therefore must have an end.
Because we can't understand this we are guilty of trying to think up a suitable answer, I tink the answer's been there all the time.
It must have been supernaturaly made by a superior being, it's the only logical answer.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA "all thing's observed if they are made from matter must have a beginning and therefore must have an end."
Assertions are not facts. Religion is not science.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
I'm glad my faith is not science.
Science changes it's mind every day, my Bible's stayed the same for nearly 2000 yrs.
If you think matter has always existed then you must be cleverer than Albert E.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA Albert E was not right about everything. Disagreeing with him doesn't make one smart or dumb. More likely you don't understand or care to understand a whit about what he wrote.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Are you saying the 1st & 2nd law are incorrect?
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA I'm saying you don't understand the 1st and 2nd.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
I understand the 1st & 2nd law..
But it seem's some people like to think there is some system present what matter can be made from.
This we do not see, it had to be a supernatural event, common sense tells me this.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
It was all condensed into a singularity, along with space itself. Beyond that event everything is speculation, the idea that it came from somewhere is a human projected idea: Common sense can only go so far, it helps us understand the human world but isnt built to deal with aspects of our universe that go beyond our senses, like quantum physics. Common sense can only fail you where the supernatural is involved, by the definition of these terms.
Staunts 2 years ago
It was all? what was "it was all"? how did "it was all" get there? where ever there is.
When man has no answer he tries to think some thing up, it could be religion or it could be evolution.
Either way one of us is right, there is no other way, we do not see or know what it was that made all matter, but one thing's for sure it was not a natural physical event.
I side on the side of rationality, we can not dismiss a creator.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
You keep thinking in false terms like "how did it get there" that's based on a assumption that it had to come from somewhere. How did GOD get there???? "Where ever there is" There was no 'where' because space itself was condensed, it wasnt in a place, everything you can call 'where' was in one place, get it? I'm going to refute creationism in a new post, keep an eye out for it.
Staunts 2 years ago
Now we are not going to understand this but it's a possibility.
If God is who He says He is then He has always been present, but He is not made from matter like we are, all matter has to have a beginning in this 3 d universe, that stands for reason, we know that matter/energy can not be created or destroyed (1st law) so again it had to be made by a creator if it's matter based. So why do we not see other singularities expanding today? This theory has problems.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
If you want to address the question of how life became so diverse on our planet, where to begin? Well, let's look at what life does, since life is what is being addressed. Life reproduces, with genetic variation, and natural selection. We can observe this happening right now. What can we NOT observe? Animals being magically created already formed. Life tells us how it got here by doing what it does every day. Instead of looking at life, you are looking at an old book. hmm.
Staunts 2 years ago
The genetic variation is not added to, it can only mutate and most mutations are harmfull and the others are of no benifit.
I agree with micro evolution but I do not agree with macro, our dna has limits, all laws have limits, our cells are no different, we do not have to see animals majically being made, as all has been created, what we do see are variations of the same kind just like scripture says would happen.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Now you are just repeating the same creationist lies that have been refuted over and over. Look, go read a book, man. It's all there. I'm not that educated on these subjects but even I can see where you are getting things seriously wrong. See, I dont really care if you believe in God, but I care about people spreading false science. There is no infomration after the Biig Bang, and we know beyond a reasonable doubt that we evolved. that is what hundreds of years of science has figured out.
Staunts 2 years ago
You do not know there lies, (unless you've found a break through that science does'nt know of)
Where did the information come from for one species to evolve? Where did the intelligence come from to make the first cell which is far more complex than anything we see or have seen? And you think evolution has all the answers, it has none, its an old ancient badly thought out theory, its a drag-net to drag millions of people into hell.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Nobody says the evolution all the answers. No theory has to explain everything - but magic explains nothing.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
God had to create space. This was so there would be somewhere for God to put everything after He had created it.
God did not have a beginning. He created time, space, matter, and light. We can trust this, because He says His thoughts are higher than our thoughts in Isaiah 55:9
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
You cant trust words that dead men wrote in ancient books thousands of years ago, before people even understood their world.
Staunts 2 years ago
Darwins dead and we still have his book which is considered truth.
Lyell daed and his book of geology is concidered to be the bible according to the fossil record and the rock layers.
toche.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Darwin's book is not considered truth. Neither is Lyell's book considered the bible.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Most mutations are not harmful. Most are neutral, but even neutral mutations can later provide a base for useful mutation.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
but even neutral mutations can later provide a base for useful mutation. "Plus as much time as you want".
This is the hat you conjour up your majical tricks from..
Any excuse to deny the real truth..
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
In the same way that electrons and gravitation are "conjured." Everything seems like magic when you don't know anything.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Nice responce..
But...I know enough, evolution did and can not happen, and matter had to arrive from the Creator.
To the rational mind this is the only option and the scientists know this.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
You know "enough" to say silly stuff. You don't have any coherent understanding of the subject. You start with y our religious conviction and "reason" backwards. You don't have any idea what a rational mind would think. You don't know enough, but like most thoroughly ignorant people, you think you do. Science is harder than religion.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
I have not got religion, I have a very simple faith like most folks in the States, the problem with you is this: You have no faith for several resons,
1) you can't see God so He can't exist. 2) This then feeds your selfish addictions and because you think God's not there you think you have gotten away with it. Well I'm afraid you havn't, God and the angels are there watching and recording, think on that.
Pride comes before a fall.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Evolution has nothing to do with whether a god exists. Your threats of hell and hopes of paradise are irrelevant to the science.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
So do you think God used evolution?
My threats are valid, what if you are wrong, there are many people far far more clever than you who believe in the God of the Bible..
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Your threats are irrational. And there are far more clever people than you who don't.
No, I don't think God used evolution. I don't believe in God. But that's a personal opinion, not a scientific one.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
At least your honest and I appreciate that.
In your opinion then once were dead weredead, thats the end of it?
Am I right.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA Personal opinion - yes.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Ok, I have forgotten how to send videos, my brain got out of the right side and my head got out of the left.
I have completely forgotten how to send a them,its not my upload, its from another user and I need to put it onto one of my uploads.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA
Just because something is too complex for you to understand, does not mean it cannot be proven.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
If you dont have evidence to back up your claims, only people who share you belief will take you seriously.
thisisnotanick 2 years ago
The evidence is there, just look at the stuff your in dispute about and go rethink your thinking.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Go rethink my thinking? Why dont you back up your claims.
You claim there is evidence, but I cannot see any.
How hard is it to explain?
thisisnotanick 2 years ago
Man is making these claims and there all false.
Creation is easily explained, but you guys make evolution up and it now has become a so called "science"
Creation does NOT have to explain itself, God did it, leave it at that as we do not know how He did it, like we do not know how matter is present.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Man is not "making these claims." Scientists are finding evidence and presenting it. Creationism is no explanation at all. It's a manifestation of intellectual laziness.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA Creation can be talked about, but presents no evidence, saying god did it doesnt explain anything it is simply a appeal to ignorance.
Cade57 2 years ago
Well science can not answer the basic Q's can it.
Aron said that "matter has always been present" this simply does not add up, there has to be some system in place to make matter, it has not always been present.
Thats why "God had to do it" there is no other way..
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA
Matter is energy in a different state. The ratio of elements and the background radiation were predicted by the big bang theory, then tested and supported the theory.
Because we do not have 100% knowledge of the causation of the big bang doesn't mean it didn't happen or that god did it.
They used not to understand disease and think that god did it, now we have the germ theory. You seem to be using the god the gaps argument.
Cade57 2 years ago
Stars and our sun gives off huge amounts of noise and radiation.
The rerason we can see the light from distant stars is simple, the Bible tells us we..
I will make a vid now and I will demonstrate, let me make it and I will send you the link..
See you in a min..
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
@AronRaHAHAHA
Andy, noise? Haven't you heard the classic film tag - in space no one can hear you scream?
Noise being moved by molecules like a wave on a pond cannot travel through space.
Cade57 2 years ago
Evolution explains the origin of species.
Creationism TRIES to explain the origin of life (though it fails to provide any evidence).
You see the difference?
You first mistake is to compare the two when they dont have anything to do with eachother. Neither theory disproves the other.
"Creation does NOT have to explain itself"
Yes it does.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
If you think you dont need evidence to back up your claims, you sir are an arrogant stupid fool.
thisisnotanick 2 years ago
Evolution tries to explain these things but its main objective is to "do away with the creator"
Creation is what it is, we see a creation and its self explanatory.
You don't need science to explain creation, we can study from it and learn how the flood layed down new rock layers in differing forms, and stuff like that.
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
Evolution tries to explain these things but its main objective is to "do away with the creator"
What makes you say this? Evolution does not prove or disprove a god at all. There is nothing in evolution that prohibits the existence of a god.
You are projecting an agenda onto other people, while you are the one with an agenda.
"You don't need science to explain creation"
You cant explain creation with since, because it is not scientific. You must resort to pseudoscientific religious lies.
thisisnotanick 2 years ago 2
The objective of evolution is not to do away with a creator. You have nothing to back that up. Evolution doesn't have an objective other than to explain certain phenomena. Creationism doesn't explain anything. Chalking it up to magic is not an explanation.
You're not just making an ad ignorantium argument. You're arguing in favor of remaining ignorant and ignoring knowledge.
TheFallibleFiend 2 years ago
Its my failable friend.
Lyell, Hutton, Pascale..and alike.
Do you think all matter was present from the beginning of time?
AronRaHAHAHA 2 years ago
The question is utterly unrelated to biological evolution.