The gender card, Christopher Hitchens and Andrew Sullivan

[MrFrostedtips]

Margaret Thatcher was his idol?Dear lord...

[64jamiewhitehouse]

@MrFrostedtips Says a lot about a person doesn't it haha

[BrotherAtticus]

Best ... interview ... ever.

[ihaterobbie123]

It's quite a surreal experience watching two dead men talk to each other.

[needtoalwayslearn]

@ihaterobbie123 Why is it surreal ? This was taken when they were alive.

Surreal ? It's a video !

[ihaterobbie123]

@needtoalwayslearn Man, video recording is a recent invention. I'm not naturally conditioned to see two people who I know to be dead to be talking to each other.

Two days ago I was watching a debate between Hitchens and Dembski at the end of which I had to remind myself that I won't be able to look forward to another.

In a way, video makes people immortal. It captures a moment of their lives and for a brief time you can observe them as if they were alive.

[iBeep2009]

I cant imagine indira ghandi or golda meir putting on a mini skirt and tarting up to the lads either -

[vashna3799]

I do beg your pardon my punctuation is not up to your standards , I didn't like her ?,well there's no apathy with Thatcher ,you either loved or loathed the woman , lets just agree regarding the working class and especially miners and shipbuilders she most definitely DIDN'T like. (I blame her joyless soul of a father ,the jumped up grocer who I can imagine looked at all the working people who walked into his shop with utter contempt and passed this on to her)

[ahmedalsadik]

@vashna3799

As an aside, using pop psychology when trying to disprove someone's arguments will make you look lazy and superficial. I'm sure you don't know clinical details of her life to be able to make such value judgments on her family relationships.

Have a nice Holiday.

[vashna3799]

@ahmedalsadik you took your time answering my comment ,is that the best you can come up with ? happy xmas by the way.

[uriituw]

@vashna3799 How on earth am I meant to read that? Did you ever go to school?

[vashna3799]

@uriituw Aren't you witty ,as witty as margaret thatcher .

[uriituw]

@vashna3799 Try and write that like somebody who's literate.

[vashna3799]

@uriituw I'm not sure where this arguments going but I've got more worthy people to argue with on youtube.

[uriituw]

@vashna3799 I'm not asking you to argue with me.

[915buck]

Hilary Clinton is and always has been a joke!!!! She needs to get a real job!!! Just a joke, a joke, Hitchens has it so right......your getting the picture now right?? I could never stand the bitch!!!

[vashna3799]

An idol? Try living in one of the mining pit towns and villages in England during the 1980's she devastated and see if you would have idolised her than.

[ahmedalsadik]

@vashna3799 Getting people off subsidies is not devastation. Why don't you also accuse previous administrations that kept miners underground far beyond the point it was economically necessary? Thacher took Britain into the 21st kicking and screaming. Before her, it was the shame of Western Europe.

[vashna3799]

@ahmedalsadik Getting people off subsidies ,OK lets start with the biggest bunch of subsidized lot in Britain ,British Farmers .How much do they get off the taxpayer every year ,millions (and all are dyed in the wool thatcherites) .Ask any top economist in the the country today and they will admit it would have been more economical for the UK's interests to keep the pits open ( thatcher wanted revenge on the miners and the unions plain and simple )

[vashna3799]

@ahmedalsadik Thatcher took us kicking and screaming in the 21st century did she with her "get rich quick and nevermind the long term philosophy" oh yes its all worked out lovely for a minority of top bankers, and this reagan/thatcher ideology as come back to bite us the big time with the global economic meltdown ,and a moderniser? who said they wanted to turn britain's clock back to "Victorian values" which was about 10% living off the fat of the land and the other 90% in shit.

[ahmedalsadik]

@vashna3799 It would be useful if you used punctuation.

I agree farm subsidies are just as bad, by all means they shroud be cut. The rest of what you said was not really an argument so lets just agree you don't like her.

[antoireland09]

margaret thatcher was your idol. twat.

[asdodge1]

They have so much sexual tension!

[upplsuckimcool16]

misogynist LOL... he's obviously gay!

[AdamHawkey]

@upplsuckimcool16 He's married and has children.

[90talisten]

@upplsuckimcool16

You just got pwned by AdamHawkey, enjoy your day.

[zacwheaties]

@upplsuckimcool16 I thought your comment was funny. Just a joke guys...

[tipoomaster]

Well said, both of them. Funny how anyone who stands up for TRUE gender equality, post-gender as they said, is labeled a misogynist.

[TheMasterHippy]

How you see sexism will depend on your gender. Fact Sexism exists today against both genders.

Fact most Atheists respect all life, man or woman

Fact, its more or less religions fault for sexism. For dividing ourselves as sexes and hiding our shame towards each other. It religion that says woman need a man to escort them in a vehicle, or that they need to cover everything but their eyes. or that woman should be stoned to death for premarital sex.

its not the fault of man or woman, its Religion

[Rabboleth]

@TheMasterHippy religion is our fault. It's just as much a human product as Coca Cola. Like sexism, it comes from human ignorance, and often WILLFUL ignorance. As with any other form of pollution, we share a collective responsibility both for religion's existence, and it's eradication. Until everyone is on board, we'll be stuck with religion and the damage it causes.

[roac7777]

@TheMasterHippy I like your comments

[TheMitchNickels]

@Kitty2Cats

The only sexism that exists today is against men.

[Bumblybee256]

@TheMitchNickels LMAO. Yeah, you're right, women abuse men in their millions. Right now, women are using rape as a weapon of war against men in the congo. In saudi arabia men aren't allowed to drive and need female guardians, sharia law legalises women beating their husbands. Men are required by law in some countries to allow fetuses to use their bodies even though they want to end their pregnancy. Oh wait...........it's all the other way round.

[colinjohnstevenson]

@TheMitchNickels what a silly statement. kitty2cats is retarded and now youve made the other side of the argument look even dumber than that user

[EvilsOfFeminism]

Voting for a gender or a race is completely retarded, as is any thing calling herself a woman who claims that women are the "primary victims of war." To hell with that arrogant "woman" and every one of her vast, incomprehensible absurdities.

[84jbd]

@Kitty2Cats neither of them make a single claim that Clinton HAS NOT been the victim of discrimination. They don't argue that sexism doesn't exist - in fact they provide recent examples. This is your first mistake.

Your second mistake - arguably the more pertinent - is to argue that sexism does exist but that 'typical men' don't recognise it. Are you really so blind to the irony of that statement? 'Typical men'? What does that mean? Perhaps you can offer us a definition of the 'typical man'...

[thechadwasgreat]

is there any way you can upload the entire show?

[alexhamster1134]

the bearded guy sounds a bit queer....

[Relbl]

@alexhamster1134 He is, yet still a staunch conservative... oh, the ironies of life

[detahdomo]

@alexhamster1134 he is brosef

[alexhamster1134]

@detahdomo what is a brosef?

[TheGoalSetter]

Obama played the race card both ways too:

For those of you who wouldn't vote for me because you are prejudiced against blacks, don't be prejudiced.

For those of you who will vote for me because you are prejudiced for blacks, go ahead and be prejudiced.

It's sickening.

[crush3r63]

@TheGoalSetter

Only a racist douche bag like you would say this. He actually antagonized actual race card playing blacks like Jesse Jackson (who said he should be castrated) when Jackson perceived Obama as "talking down to blacks".

Trash talking racist idiots like you can ever admit to the truth of Obama's integrity.

Hes the first black president and America has been changed for ever. LIVE WITH IT BITCH.

[Kougeki1000]

@TheGoalSetter Thing is that he never actually did that, Republicans like Glenn Beck are the ones who've accused Obama of racism, people have to stop this projection, it's annoying

[SickerThanThou]

This is typical of women nowadays: «I'm just as strong and competent as any man and I'm not gonna be bullied by any of them but... please don't hurt my feelings guys, because after all I'm a woman ! And you wouldn't want to look like a bunch of mysoginists, now would you ?» Hillary Clinton wanted to be able to throw bullets at her opponents while using her gender as a shield, so that the guys wouldn't fight back.

[Captainjack463]

@SickerThanThou yup. That's actually developed by the shame-language they use on every topic they want to win or make a male shut-up/look like an ass.

[themaniusedtob]

im still waiting for christopher hitchens to one day say atleast one thing i cant agree with... that mans views about any issue he talks about is always the same as mine i wish he was more into politics and become senator we need people like him the white house

[angeltears87]

@themaniusedtob

He is dying

[gupsphoo]

@angeltears87 So are you, and everyone else.

[angeltears87]

@gupsphoo

Not atm I am not

[thunderfr00t]

those are some real teabaggers

[diceyLee]

GET WELL SOON CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS...... ESOPHAGEAL CANCER IS A BITCH, BUT YOU ARE THE MAN! MODERN MEDICINE IS A BEAST..... PULL THROUGH COMRADE!!!!!

[killsourenemy]

Sullivan and Hitchens are great together.

[dulluz]

I don't think I've seen Hitchens being so amiable with another guest like he is here. Has he gotten soft lately?

[nemirn]

@dulluz

This show is from 2008.

Tim Russert has since died. Pity, he was a great interviewer.

[Classicintercourse]

@dulluz He's good friends with Sullivan I think.

[husky720]

Hitchens Benazir Bhutto example was perfect.

[nonameisacat]

An absolutely perfect response to the issue.

[EFC100t]

nice vid, thanks

[pupil8]

"sloppy and bitchy" ftw

the hitman strikes again

[kmcc2576]

It's funny to see Hitchens get long with another guest.

[terrybahoon]

Sullivan is also English. They're old friends.

[Weirfan69]

What is Sullivan's accent? I thought first it was remnants of an English accent if he was raised there but then moved or something, but it also sounds slightly Australian.

[MaxwellBennett]

english.

[IthacaSkinhead]

"all american straight men are sexist pigs... :| "

And some people wonder why we hate feminism...

[Assaultpredator]

yea i think he was being sarcastic.

[collegeguy2009]

all american straight men are sexist pigs... :|

[HoneyIEducatedTheWeb]

Gay men don't find women attractive...Surely they're the sexist ones...;)

[collegeguy2009]

lol... hou, nigga, hou?

[ariannahiggins]

yeah you guys suck.!!!

[unfortunatebeam]

@collegeguy2009 u r joking right?

[listenthinkspeak]

Hillary didn't when because she didn't want to win ... plain and simple!

[poului]

Yes that's right, because of the bigotry issues in the media messrs Sullivan and Hitchens have no right to criticise aspects of Mrs Clinton's behaviour. She's perfect in every way.

[saintSuze]

The idea that Margaret Thatcher didn't exploit her femininity is completely ludicrous. She argued that she would be a good house-keeper, she modelled herself on Elizabeth 1st, she flirted, she welled-up. Women will not make an issue of their gender once men stop making an issue of it.

[noicingjustcake]

I don't understand this paragraph, SaintSuze. The men in this video weren't making an issue of Thatcher's femininity; you are (or in your opinion, Thatcher did). How does that sit with the last sentence of your comment?

[subpar07]

Another brilliant move by MSNBC (misogynist national broadcasting company). Way to have three men and NO women have a conversation about sexism. It boggles the mind.

[newdayo]

partially you are right but Hillary is playing the gender card as a victim.

[subpar07]

That's because she is a victim. I'm a male, and I'm disgusted at what has happened to her.

It is 2008 and this shit should not be happening.

[lombard34]

Subpar... That's an absurd position and you are an absurd person to believe it. Hillary, a victim? Please sir, do not pull our chain. Your candidate got beat because she ran a shitty campaign, and because she is a lying corrupt politician. Have a pleasant day, and be a little less credulous come next election. Your reasoning is truly subpar.

[subpar07]

McCain 2008 :)

[lombard34]

I second that.

[ArgusEyes]

I actually think that not for Obama being there she would have sailed through. She is certainly the second most popular democratic candidate, that much is sure.

She is losing to Obama because in the game of identity politics that the left has made its own, black trumps woman. And that's the end of the story.

[lombard34]

As if Hillary and her supporters never implied that a woman president would be more significant than a black president. Please.

Hillary's supporters are sore losers, sore at her pitiful campaign, and sore at the fact that she blew a lead of 30 points or whatever it was. Rather than admit that it was her own fault, or that Obama could have possibly ran a better campaign, they rely on pathetic excuse making. And simpleton's buy into it.

[unfortunatebeam]

@ArgusEyes maybe in identitiy politics black trumps woman (although I personally don't beleive that) but in political practice, woman clearly trumps black or any other ethnic minority. Look for instance at Obama's spending freeze to all programs except military AND except women's programs. Now what does that tell you who has more power and influence in Washington?

[guild318]

She's not a victim of anything except the consequences of her own shady political machinations, ridiculous pandering, Mark Penn & Howard Wolfson, and playing games with identity politics, which includes, of course, heavy handedly playing the gender card at every single opportunity.

[unfortunatebeam]

@subpar07 annnnnd what? exactly? has happened to her? Are you sane?

[subpar07]

@unfortunatebeam oh shut the fuck up asshat. This is 2 years old get over it. You probably didn't even pay attention to what really happened in the election. I'm not about to explain it to you when we're half way to 2012.

[unfortunatebeam]

@subpar07 judging by how you sound in your comments here, the last thing I would ever EVER expect is for you to try to explain anything to me or anyone else for that matter you fucktard deluded loser.

[unfortunatebeam]

@newdayo yes, hilary the privileged upper middle class white woman who was first lady of the US and enjoyed huge popularity in the media. Wow, What a victim she is!!!

[unfortunatebeam]

@subpar07 yeah sure. I can't even count how many times I've seen a panel of all women have a conversation about men and sexism with NO men present. Get real.

[linusettu]

haha, you can tell russert is holding in a laugh for the commercial break.

[ArgusEyes]

Yep. Hitchens can come up with some good lines.. I don't think much of his writing though.

[MichaelnChristine]

@ArgusEyes Not a point I'd advertise.

[redryan20000]

@ArgusEyes you don't "think" much of his writing though

what does sentence that mean?

[dkthg]

@ArgusEyes Fuck you! His writings are great! You're only seeing things thru Argus Eyes.

[hellodave2006]

@ArgusEyes Obviously you can't read then.

[chubbm]

@ArgusEyes I like Hitchens' writing but I think he's a better speaker than a writer.

[freddiemercerful]

@ArgusEyes I'm sorry but are you mad? Whatever we say about Hitchens's political opinions surely everyone has to concede he's a fantastic writer. Have you ever read his biography of George Orwell, why Orwell matters, or any of his essays/articles collected in For the Sake of Argument? This is fantastically written stuff only a fool could deny it.

[cf40409]

@ArgusEyes Most of his "lines" come from "his writing"...

[UnOxonien]

@ArgusEyes He's one of the greatest journalists of the 20th Century...

[invictorium]

@ArgusEyes tosser

[averagejoesgym71]

I do believe there are hurdles for Hilary because she is a woman. I don't particularly like Hitchens, not too familiar with the other guy. However, the frustration I feel about Hilary and alot of women these days is that they try to play things both ways. When it suits them, they want responsibility and exactly equal treatment.  When it does not suit them, they have "special needs" and need coddling. My feeling is, "Pick one if you wish to gain my respect".

[unfortunatebeam]

@averagejoesgym71 And there weren't hurtles for Obama because he's black?

[SKCUK1]

You really can't argue with what these men saying considering they refer to the strength and dignity demonstrated by other women leaders. Its the very reason why Baroness Thatcher was the PM for 11 yrs and leader of her party for many more. Being a woman was irrelevant. She was the best person for the job. Clinton tripped herself up far too many times using her gender as suits. Clinton feels she has a fundamental right to be President BECAUSE she is a woman., Therein lies the problem.

[ArgusEyes]

Another video that may interest many:

watch?v=5tX6v6oYDmY

[marcdaddy33]

This video isn't available anymore. Are there copies of the video on youtube?

[ArgusEyes]

If that video was removed then they could remove this one. Bugger.

[myteetharebleeding]

it turned me off to see hillary crying on national tv. to be honest i thought she would know better. it sends a message of weakness and a general lacking of emotional poise/control.

at least some of us can keep our pms in check.

[ArgusEyes]

There have been so many times in Hillary's campaign that I've been listening to/looking at a speech she was making and thinking "you fake". Seriously, I defy you to listen to her words on Dr. King's assasination without thinking this.

[Truth0rDeath]

If I were given the choice I'd take Bush Jr. for another 4 years before Hitlery.

[gummybrain]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. You would take our worst president over Hillary Clinton? I'm no Clinton fan, but I'd never vote for Bush II.

[ArgusEyes]

I thought the current Bush was "Bush II"? :)

[Truth0rDeath]

I simply think she'd be even worse.

I'd rather have Ron Paul as president than anyone.

[EndTheism]

Alternitively soppy and bitchy. That last line cuts to the bone.

[edithmcneill]

We have had 24 years in the white house with just two families, Bush & Clinton. Hillary would make 28 to 32 years of the same family, it's past time to break the cycle.

[watchtheskies]

I wonder if America realises how fortunate they are to have Christopher Hitchens as a citizen?

shame you have to be born American to become President

[ArgusEyes]

Is that true!? That sucks!

*re-works life plans*

[watchtheskies]

yes afraid so, I watched a segment on Sky news (not the best source I agree) they were discussing this limitation regarding Arnold Shwarzenegger, born in Austria currently would not be allowed to become President, although the discussion did talk about possible changes in the future,

[georg1984]

I'm pretty sure you not only have to be born american, but born *in* america to become president. Somebody please tell me whether I'm right.

[itachi705]

You must be a born citizen.

[qwertyuiop726]

That Sullivan guy can't seem to decide which accent to speak with. :)

Good clip, though.

[WizardKing78]

Hilary Clinton is a whining, feminist cunt. What a disaster it would be if she 'bagged' the White house.

[mrgeo89]

Is there need for such language?

[ArgusEyes]

These are youtube comments... ;)

[PhillyDickinson]

She isn't a feminist, just look at her disgraceful self-pitying tone. And as you said, she whines all the time. She is no feminist.

People like Benazir Bhutto and Thatcher were feminists.

[WizardKing78]

Thatcher was not a feminist. Feminists tend to whine constantly about 'wimmins issues', something Thatcher never did.

[PhillyDickinson]

Exactly, she didn't lament and whinge about her formerly suppressed gender, that's the point of feminism. Hillary is no feminist precisely because she treats gender as significant.

[WizardKing78]

Most feminists are whingers who deliberately perpetuate the myth of female-victimhood. Thatcher loathed the victim mentality; so beloved of feminists and the left. This is why she isn't a feminist.

[WizardKing78]

I see that feminism is changing its form yet again.

[EndTheism]

In practice, feminism is really about whining and perpetual victimhood. Oh, and lying. Don't forget the lying.

[ArgusEyes]

To PhillyDickinson:

"she whines all the time. She is no feminist."

I have to disagree. As much as it pains me to say. Being a whiny victim-mongerer is far more in keeping with modern femininsm than not being so.

People like thatcher, as far as I am aware (I might be wrong), did not really identify themselves as feminists. This is part of the reason for their success. Cut wood or leave as they say.

[unfortunatebeam]

@PhillyDickinson Ah, what you're saying doesn't really add up. There are loads of feminists that whine all the time, but since there's apparently dozens of different kinds of feminists then maybe you're referring to the group or groups that doesn't/don't whine? idk