The Ottoman Empire neglected the Land of Israel, which was for them a remote periphery. Most of the inhabitants were Jews and Christians who populated the major cities, which, in themselves were sparse and backward, revolving around pilgrims to the holy sites. Beyond the cities were Bedouin nomads for whom the land was a passage between Egypt and Arabia. Maps and data of Israel's population at the time, recorded by the Pope's emissaries, fill the Vatican archives and attest to this.
We have only to look at the past 150 years in order to learn that those people who call themselves "Palestinians" have been new settlers in the Land of Israel. In order to have a reliable picture of Israel's settlement map one needs to look at all the waves of settlement, and not only those of the Jews. In order to properly discuss the issue of Israel's demography, one must be knowledgeable about the Arab settlement process in the context of modern history.
Historical evidence tells us another story. Historically, the Jewish and Arab settlement in Israel neither began in 1882 nor in 1948. To establish my argument, I will not resort to referring back in time to the Byzantine period and the time of the Khalif Omar, the periods in which most of the dwellers in Israel were Jews.
Arab propaganda has long extolled the fact that in 1948, the year of the State of Israel's independence and the year of the Nakba (Arabic for 'catastrophe') for them, there were three quarter Arabs and one third Jews in the expanse between the Jordan and the sea. In keeping with this polemic they always only emphasize the aliyah of Jews to Israel. According to the Arabs who adhere to this agenda, they have lived here since time immemorial and are only naturally increasing in population.
That is not to say there were no individuals or even large groups of thousands of Jews who previously settled in Israel. In 1740, for instance, tens of thousands of Hassidim settled in Hebron, Jerusalem, Safed, and Tiberia. There was also an aliyah from Yemin and Spain. Jews have always been making aliyah to Israel, even often endangering their lives. Despite this, until the beginning of WWI in 1914, 80% of Jerusalem's population was Jewish.
Arab propaganda has had an invested interest in establishing 1948 as Israel's demographic turning point, in the collective memory both of the world and of Arab populations. Regretfully, due to laziness, ignorance, or both, Jews, as well, have not examined the demographic facts. Indeed, what the pioneers coined as "the Second Return to Zion", began in 1882 with the aliyah of the first pioneers.
There is no ancient Palestinian history. There are no world renowned Palestinian artists, scientists, not one Palestinian literary masterpiece, no recognizable culture, no inventions... nothing that distinguishes Palestinians as a people. They are neither a unique people, nor a separate people with their own history. The Palestinians do not deserve a nation because they are not a nation.
Take you time in answering - no rush, no pressure. I'd be interested in your input on this.
The Palestinians already have a nation, Jordan. There, the indigenous majority is ruled by Bedouin royalty from Mecca. The Jordanians had control of the West Bank from 1948 to 1967 and never once offered it as a Palestinian state. Why not? The Egyptians held the Gaza Strip for much longer. Why didn't they create a Palestinian state if there were Palestinian people living there?
No one is offering to compensate the 800,000 Sephardic Jews whose assets were stolen when they were forced out of Arab countries in the 40s and 50s. Israel took in their refugees, the Arabs kept their 500,000 in camps. Until I see or hear one of you ISM/Peacenik types actively advocate for compensation or right of return of those Jews, you will NOT be taken seriously.
There is no Palestinian language. There is no Palestinian religion. Mohammed never claimed he was in Jerusalem. The Al Aqsa Mosque and Shrine Of Omar are built atop the ancient Jewish temples. The Jews held sovereignty over Jerusalem for 1300 years; the Arabs, a mere fraction of the time. There was never an Arab Palestinian nationalist movement until 1964. The majority of "Palestinians" according to British demographic surveys, arrived in Israel after 1917, seeking economic opportunities.
The PLO and its police torture people they don't like. They execute people without due process of law. Whatever Palestinian courts do exist, none do so to protect the rights of the accused. The PLO will not tolerate free expression and arrest and torture journalists who criticize the regime. The PLO offer no rights to women. Only among its followers in the Christian community, can women receive higher education and responsible jobs.
The PLO has no morals, national or otherwise. Their sole motivation is to instill hate from one generation to the next. The PLO has brought nothing but misery to its followers. The Palestinians know nothing of the creation of beauty, engage in no serious scholarship, pass nothing of greatness down the ages. Their legacy is purely of destruction.
There is no hope of the Palestinians ever honestly electing their leaders. At best, this ragtag collection of Middle Eastern peoples will accept whatever tyrant proves the most inscrutable and leads their tribe after Abu Mazen.
The Palestinians send their children to their deaths to make media propaganda points. Real nations care about their young. The PLO and its allied Islamic organizations practise child sacrifice under the guise of martyrdom.
The Palestinians and their political leadership bring war and instability to wherever they reside, be it Jordan, Lebanon or in the very territories Israel recently handed over to them. No one wants them as neighbors because they are too egotistical, hotheaded, selfish and immature to qualify as a responsible nation. No one will sign a meaningful agreement with any Palestinian leader because PLO diplomats have no ethics and lie with impunity. They never keep any of their promises.
Reasons why the Palestinians don't deserve a state:
There was never an independent Arab state called Palestine. At best, Palestine was a backwoods Turkish province. Hence, there were no pilgrimages to the "holy" Al Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem is not the third holiest site of Islam. Mecca and Medina are holy, Jerusalem was never mentioned in the same breath until the liberation of the Temple Mount by the Israelis in 1967.
Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Why? Because Arab leaders wanted to use them as a political tool against Israel. Out of the millions of refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
1) Muslims / Arabs show on their TV calling Jews and Christians pig and monkey.
And the kind of treatment they give to black (decadent of slaves) like shit not to mention black Sudanese and yet you don't see the general public objecting to this.
2) h t t p : / / w w w . p a l e s t i n e f a c t s . o r g / p f _ mandate _ g r a n d _ m u f t i . php
1) So every one of the 422 million Arabs came on TV and said "Jews are pigs and Christians are monkeys." What did the Christian Arabs say? You sure it wasn't just a handful of people you saw on YouTube?
2) This isn't even related to the question. I repeat: Do you understand the DISTINCTION between ARABS (hint, ethnic group) and MUSLIMS (hint, religious group)?
3) It certainly was NOT 1967 where anybody told the Palestinians to leave, except when the State of Israel pushed them out. Maybe you're thinking of 1948 when some Arab leaders advised that Palestinian civilians leave because it was a war zone.
4) Why don't you do a little research then, huh? He was the founder of Lehi, one of three paramilitary groups who were fundamental to the establishment of the State of Israel. His group was considered a terrorist organization by the British government.
4 continued) Lehi, along with Irgun, was responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre, as well as several others. In 1949 Israel granted Lehi members amnesty, and in the 1970's former members could receive the honorary "Lehi ribbon." Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was a high-level member of Lehi.
3 continued) No Arab leader as ever told any Palestinian to leave permanently. Never. They have simply advised Palestinian civilians to avoid war zones with the hope and expectation that after the war they may return. Mot of the time they have not been able to return, not because they don't want to, but because Israel doesn't want to tarnish its demographic with them "dirty" Arabs.
3) yep i was thinking of 1948 and i am right. so there
4) Again they are not of the same equivalence one is a member of organisation the other is a LEADER get it a leader of an Arab world. as for the British calling him a terrorist so what? they called Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi a terrorist beside was it not the British that brought about Israel? why use them for your side of argument? on that point tell me what the British called Arafat ? please do
After 1939 the British were seen by many in the Yishuv as the greatest obstacle to the foundation of a Jewish State because they had cut off the flow of Jewish immigration. That's why many British officials were assassinated by members of these paramilitary groups. Former Israeli Prime Ministers Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were members of Lehi and Irgun respectively. These are LEADERS.
1) Yitzhak Shamir WAS the magic word being NOT a leader at the time. The mufti on the other hand was.
in fact Arafat did the same thing.
And the fact you compare Yitzhak Shamir with Mohammad Amin al-Husayni ally of greatest murder of 20th century shows what you are all about. under Hitler and his fuckers 50 MILLIONS DIED.
By your logic we should all return to East Africa since that's where we all originate from. And who the heck knows where my ancestors were 2000 years ago? Even if I did know, would I have the right to go to those who live there now and say "out of my house" ?
TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS WHY STATELESSNESS MEANS ILLEGITIMACY AND THUS ENTITLES EXPULSION.
Do you know what a Muffffffffffftiiiii is? It's somebody who interprets how Islam should be incorporated into law. It's not like a Caliph or a medieval Pope-King or whatever other kind of LEADER you are making him out to be. I.e. it's not like he had authority over the Palestinian people.
Furthermore I wasn't comparing Shamir to the Mufti, I was comparing Stern, who in fact did have a correspondence with Hitler.
And no you are not right. As I have just immediately stated, no Arab leader as ever told any Palestinian to leave permanently, ever! What you are referring to is that in 1948 some various Arab officials said it would be wise for Palestinian civilians to avoid the cross-fire by temporarily leaving the war-zone. This is precisely NOT what you are describing it as—as "yay we can leave now!"
Not true in the least. In 1948 Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same. Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
No I know who you're talking about, and generally speaking they make up a very small proportion of those who reject Zionism. I am living in Jordan right now, whose population is probably majority Palestinian-origin, and am living with a Jerusalem-originated Palestinian Christian family. I guess that's the extent of the personal interest.
No you are correct that not just anybody should open their mouth to criticize whatever if they are not affected by it, since they're likely to be ignorant of the complex dynamics and such. But you know, I'm living here and this is kinda what I'm specializing in.
Who are these "strange characters" you are referring to? And why does being opposed to the historical or modern Zionist movement necessarily mean "hating all jewish people"? And would it matter to you whether I am actually Arab or Palestinian?
Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time, through its systematic delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel. Although not a priori anti-Semitic, the calls to dismantle the Jewish state, whether they come from Muslims, the Left, or the radical Right, increasingly rely on an anti-Semitic stereotype of classic themes, such as the manipulative "Jewish lobby," the Jewish/Zionist "world conspiracy," and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers."
The blockade is about security - OK I can maybe sorta envision how blockading fuel and electricity can be construed as for security, maybe, even though it's obviously collective punishment and thus a serious violation of the Geneva Conventions; but blockading food, water and even fucking school supplies? You gotta be kidding me.
1) its funny to bring up the Geneva Conventions or the universal human right concerning Palestine or Arabs.
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to CHANGE his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
So you agree with Article 18 and most Islamic countries are in violation by application of the sharia law. This is done for no other reason but to force dictate other person's religion.
Article 2 states that signatories are bound by the convention both in war, armed conflicts where war has not been declared and in an occupation of another country's territory.
Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: noncombatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:
Yes, it is familiar; and Human Rights Watch has documented numerous cases of the IDF staying out in Gazan civilian homes while keeping them there; i.e. human shields, another violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Yes; therefore how is Israel's humanitarian stranglehold justified again? You talk about everything else but you have yet to even address this issue whatsoever.
Yes we could continue to compare violations of international law all day. I acknowledge the violations by Hamas or Fatah. Do you acknowledge Israel's violations?
Nor has there been a war without a violation since 1948.
But the fact of the matter is there is a solution.
1) Palestinians can cut their loss by accepting there won't be a Palestinian state and go to Jordan and Saudi (plenty of land for Palestinian in west bank,gaza and those that live outside the region (30 million in EU and US)
The EU,US and Israel can give them $ for compensation and resettlement
Hahahahaha, wow. Yeah, they should just be expected to pack up and leave, go ahead and ethnically cleanse themselves that way Israel doesn't have to do all that work, that's the "solution." And you know, the Holocaust could've been prevented, too, if the Jews who knew they were gonna die had just killed themselves Masada-style. Actually, this was Gandhi's advice, that the Jews should willingly face their executors with equanimity. Does that sound a tad racist? You are a racist.
You know, the underlying motivation for saying "You can't stay here because of your ethnicity and race, go somewhere else" is never out of concern for that people's welfare. It's racism, pure and blatant. You are an overt racist, despite whatever thin pretensions you have otherwise. I repeat: you are a racist. It is plain for all to see.
I mean, why else would you propose that to be the solution, other than to preserve the ethnic purity of The Land of Israel? Oh wait.... where does that sound familiar.... preserving ethnic purity of the nation.... hmm! Oh yeah, Nazi Germany.
You can call me whatever you like it matter not to me.
i on the other hand i'm not the type that calls blacks kafire, to Ethiopians habesha, to jew monkey, to Christians pig. nor i'm i a member that is hell bent to kill black Sudanese.
But when i offer the solution based on the fact Palestinians are in fact Jordanians and if they want to avoid death they should leave, i am the racist
Yes, generalization is always the way of the racist. Blaming Palestinians for Darfur, for example, is racism. Saying "you can't stay here because of your ethnicity" is racism. Saying "you can't decide your own identity, I will decide that for you" is racism. You are a racist haha how can you not see this?
When you assert with some kind of authority that it is a "fact" that "Palestinians are in fact Jordanians".... I've already told you, I live in Jordan. Palestinians are NOT the same as Jordanians hahaha. Also, I doubt the Palestinian family whom I'm living with now would be out to call Christians "pigs," since they themselves are Christian.... does any of this get to you? Or maybe you're just too focused in your racist mindset to actually look at facts.
Do Kurds deserve to be treated like shit because they've never had a State? Do they deserve to be bombed and expelled, or should they be expected to pack up their bags and go somewhere else? You've avoided every single question I've posed to you, so answer me this one.
The Kurds didn't come out of nowhere thus they can go to the place of their origin. As to do they "deserve to be treated like shit"i don't know, i don't know much about them other than the bias part about them by Arabs. Before you give me they are innocent they done nothing wrong not ever. i know they have guerrilla fighters
"they can go to the place of their origin." Yeah, and the blacks can just go back to Africa, right?
Well I obviously already know that you don't know much; and I don't know why you'd presume me to say that "they're so innocent or whatever" since obviously there is the PKK. But just the fact that you say "I don't know" whether or not an ethnic group deserves to be treated like shit shows that whatever anti-racist pretensions you have are just a thin veil of bullshit.
And btw the Kurds have been living roughly where they are for as long as recorded history makes note of their ethnic distinctness. And they've never had a State of their own. But I guess by the latter point, according to your logic, they deserve to be dominated and expelled, since you seem to have no concept of human rights. I mean, "self-determination" is enshrined in international law, but apparently you disagree with this idea.
Afro-Americans in US have been there longer than most whites and Afro-Americans have white ancestors in them (DNA) as well as native indians nor do they (blacks) ask for a separate state within US.
And i hope i don't have to bring up the FACT they where BROUGHT BY FORCE to Americas. Palestinians and Kurds where merely gypsy and conquerors
Palestinians (conquerors)
Kurds (gypsy)
BTW jews,Palestinians,Kurds are all caucasoid. in other world belong to the same race. huff bluff booffff here goes your "racist" "racist" "racist" chauntra
It's really quite comical how your ignorance displays itself, as when you are unfamiliar with an ethnic group in the Middle East and so you refer to them as "gypsies" hahaha.
Oh and CLEARLY there can be no racism within the broad categories of caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid! I mean, obviously the whole Hutu-Tutsu shtick had nothing to do with racism since both groups are negroid, right?
No, your position is not that racism against Palestinians and Kurds and others is not in fact racism, no, your position is that this is WORTHY racism. i.e. some racial and ethnic groups are simply unworthy peoples, and should have no rights. This is why you have absolutely no conception whatsoever of human rights, and this is why I still maintain that you are as dirty of a racist as a Klan member.
This is just getting funnier by the hour. Now you call me a Klan. OK lets see
1) Arabs had connection with racism against black that pre-date white raciest against blacks.
2) Arabs had connection to Hitler (fought for him)
3) Libya's Gaddafi and the Arab world gave money to member of a political group known as BNP.
BNP being founded by neo nazi and the leader was pictured with his buddy david duke the grand Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) get it try again ?
gypsies is a conmen term given to a group of people that don't settle. Kurds were by in large just that (they never settled until the late in history)
No, gypsy is term applied to the Roma people. Moreover, your description of them as a group that "doesn't settle" is entirely accurate (after all, you yourself admitted that you are utterly ignorant as to the Kurdish people). I don't know about you, but I wouldn't say that being settled in a specific region for at least 1700 years counts as being "gypsy."
Sahih bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 182: Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!" (see also Sahih Muslim Book 030, Number 5743)
Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hand possess. Thus Allah has ordained for you. (See also Quaran 23:1-6)
Tafsir al Jalalayn on Quran 4:24: And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle];
(may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her." (see also Sahih Bukhari, 7.62.137)
MOHAMMED's TEACHING ON USING SLAVE WOMEN FOR SEX BEFORE THEN SELLING THEM:
Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3371: Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said:
Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time)
we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
I'm not sure how you think quoting some a7adeeth counts as proving that Arabs are worthy of inferior or something? Not all Arabs are Muslims, a large number are Christian or secular, and most Muslims are non-Arabs; the largest Muslim country is Indonesia. Furthermore, I can find some really disgusting verses in the Old Testament, such as the commandment for parents to stone their children if they leave the faith; does this prove the inferiority of Jews?
And I'm not sure why you think a YouTube video is going to convince me anything about Islam, when I'm living in a country whose State religion is Islam.
And keep in mind, the Tanakh is the Holy Book of the Jews. What you are quoting are a7adeeth, sayings of the prophet, which do not carry the same status as the Qur'an, the supposed holy book.
Lol you're not even making any sense. There is no contradiction between that. The Jordanian constitution says "Islam is the State religion" but anywhere between 5-7% of the population is Christian (this number is much higher in other countries like Lebanon or Egypt), the majority of which are likely of Palestinian origin. I am currently living with a Palestinian-born family who are Greek Orthodox Christians.
Muslim (mostly Sunni) 90%, Coptic 9%, other Christian 1%
Jordanian
Sunni Muslim 92%, Christian 6%
Lebanon
Muslim 59.7%
Lebanon ethnic make- is different to that of of other Arabs counties. due to its history.
And most of the Arabs countries have Sharia in their constitution, Shrai law does not permit member of other religion to rule Islamic countries, as the Sudanese guy in the video stated.
90% is the highest estimate for the percentage of Muslims in the country, it could be as low as 80%. Now I've been to Egypt, in fact my girlfriend is Egyptian (Christian), so I know that there's real discrimination, but saying "Christian[s] live in a shitty condition" is by far an overstatement.
Moreover, these numbers simply reflect people's family origins; a significant but unmeasured amount of them have personally rejected the religion or at least don't practice it.
Moreover, it is true that most Arab countries incorporate parts of their law from the Qur'an, but this is not the same thing as having Shari'a law. Shari'a law means Islamic through and through. Most Arab countries have laws from the Qur'an with regard to things like marriage and inheritance rights, and generally speaking they usually don't apply to religious minorities. It's only in Saudi Arabia where they chop off a thief's hand and such.
As moo ham head said you can't force (sward) Christian into Islam but you can force them by mean of class status (demie class)
The majority of Christian in Egypt are poor. And as recently as 2009 the Egyptian gov ordered the slaughter of pigs (owned by Christian) in the name H1N1 when W.H.O and many medical organisation stated pigs and NOT the cause of the problem nor will it make a difference
Religious minorities are not in dhimmi status today in Arab countries., i.e. they don't have to pay the jizya.
Yes, the majority of Christians in Egypt are poor, because the majority of ALL Egyptians are poor; it's not because of their Christianity. Moreover, the slaughter of pigs really derives from paranoia over H1N1 here (and believe me, there really is a lot of paranoia), not some underhanded attempt to inconvenience Christians or whatever.
time and time again I've pointed out how member of other religion are discriminated and yet you keep making look its a one off thing and yet the condition is widespread and despite ample example you try to put it it is not discrimination.
All you done is out forth OPINION based on nothing to support what you say.,
And last I checked, Darfur protests were actually kinda a big deal. I certainly saw a shit ton more "Save Darfur" stuff in the US than anything to do with Israel and Palestine.
But of course this tactic of "why aren't you focusing on X" is a pure red herring, meant to avoid discussion of the issue at hand — the subject of the video on which we are commenting.
Speaking of which, the victims of Darfur are mostly black Muslims. They have the same religion as the Arabs in the government and the rest of the country. It's a racial conflict, nothing to do with religion.
If you're going to talk about discrimination the best way to do that would be to look at job discrimination. Of course that doesn't seem to rouse as much resentment as "they're slaughtering the pigs!" or whatever. And no, I've stated clear facts, maybe not facts that you're willing to accept, but facts nonetheless. It's clear you've never dealt with the region other than watching YouTube videos and whatnot,.
Why do you suppose that numbers have this magical kind of power of being facts, while anything without numbers must clearly be opinion? The only numbers you provided are census numbers; no browny points for you here either.
The simple fact that I constantly have to remind you of the distinction between Arab and Muslim, and the fact that you seem taken aback by this, shows your utter ignorance. Nor would I except a toddler to take an academic interest in the politics surrounding him.
And most importantly, NONE of this justifies the illegal occupation and displacement of the Palestinian people, both Christian and Muslim. I mean, I could lambast the Mayans all day for their practice of human sacrifice, perhaps the most disgusting ritual ever, and yet that wouldn't justify the Spaniards' genocide against them.
Because numbers are what makes things FACT rather than opinion
Numbers are used in all sector of scientific.
The fact you are sitting down and posting comment on COMPUTER (meaning to calculate) depends on these magical things called numbers. But i know you being from that part of the world just can't understand this. much like all the things people of that part of the world are
(backward)
All you guys know is Allha uak bar and kaaaaaboooooommmm
You must really be proud that you could go to Wikipedia and find census numbers. Gold star for you! Your statement that I (meaning, a non-Arab, non-Muslim) only understand "Allha uak bar [horrendously misspelled i should say] and kaaabooom" is CLEARLY a statement of fact and not opinion, right? Haha I don't even need to say anything, you make a bigger ass of yourself than I could ever attempt. Of course you're just wiggling out from the embarrassment of your own ignorance.
And the funniest thing about it is, that the census numbers that you oh-so-intelligently found on Wikipedia only demonstrate further what I had repeatedly tried to pound into your half-retarded brain, that ARABS and MUSLIMS are NOT THE SAME THING.
2) The spelling was a joke, just like what i decided to say "kaaaaaaaabooooooooooooooomm"
3) I don;t need to go and look at statistic but if i do the magical things called NUMBERS would confirm more kaaabooom goes on in Islamic/ Arab world than any other country.
I don't know why you think this is educating in the slightest.... I've studied my history, you know, unlike you who rely on youtube videos for your education.
"Islamic/Arab world" - do you pay attention ever?
Hmm, what website did you use? And why does that make you more special?
Alright, if you wanna talk numbers let's talk numbers. Number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians since 2000: 237 in the OT and 490 in Israel. Number of Palestinians not engaged in hostilities (not including the objects of targeting killings) killed by Israeli security forces since 2000: 5 in Israel and 2187 in the OT. Clearly the Arabs are the bloodthirsty ones.
And add to the latter that 897 Palestinians in the OT and 3 in Israel were killed by Israeli Security Forces whom were not known whether they were engaging in hostilities or not.
Actually these numbers are slightly inaccurate now; they begin with the start of the second Intifada and end right when Israel begins its Gaza bombardment. If present numbers were added then the disparity would be much more massive.
When you are dropping shit from 3000ft in a landmass that masseur little in Km sq you will kill those whom you didn't mean to. unlike those who go on a bus for a soul reason of targeting civilians and go kaaaboom.
And no i learned what i know about moo ham headans from experience not YT.
But i use (give out YT links since its easy to pass on info)
That's where there's these things called the Geneva Conventions; their main point is the distinction between combatants and non-combatants. This is why dropping a nuke on a city, for example, would be against the Geneva Conventions, because you can't distinguish the two with such a method. Likewise with dropping a 1 ton bomb into a densely crowded area with the foreknowledge that there would be overwhelming civilian deaths, as Israel routinely does.
Even furthermore not all these deaths are from bombings. In the West Bank, for example, there are guard-towers placed in various places across the annexation wall. They frequently fire bullets indiscriminately into a nearby Palestinian town, sometimes killing even children.
Oh so you experienced the Islamic Conquest? Interesting. Moreover, clearly since you can't put numbers on your experience, that would eliminate it from the fact realm right?
Oppp did i forget to put number to it? OKAY 7 years in Khartoum paps use to go there for work and use to take me with him. And yes i've been other moo hamdans countries.
Yup, that definitely gave you an insider's perspective on all of the Arab and Muslim world (which you still can't seem to differentiate). I mean, clearly Palestinian culture is the same as Sudanese, as well as throughout all Arabs and all Muslims.
There are difference in every culture and within a given culture and there is a diffrenc between Sudanese and "OT" but that makes no big difference by in large.
You keep avoiding fact after fact after fact in a hole i slap like other bleeding heart liberals but you won't get that from me
1st you assumed i was black and tried "why backs are raciest"
then you moved on thinking i was an American and tried to get the issue native indians into play and you still failed at that
Then you moved on to the ad hominem by calling me ignorant. Since i know you wanted me to respond in kind i didn't thus not give you an amo. This was another failure by you.
But when all else fail go to the tactic of diverting the issue. By asking me what i am all about.
They say if you "failed once try and try again " You have taken this to a whole new ball game. typical of moo ham headans
I never assumed you were anything (as opposed to you, who are now explicitly calling me a "moo ham headan"). I asked you a thousand hypothetical questions, and you never so much as acknowledged that I said them. I was bringing up points of comparison to show the serious faults in your logic, but this seemed to fly over your head completely.
When I talked about the fault of collective judgment for a large ethnic group spanning a huge territory, you COMPLETELY diverted everything by quoting some a7adeeth. Moreover, I explicitly called you out on several red herrings (do you even know what a red herring is?)
The first comment i made on this video was in fact (This is not about land) and explained why and how (by presenting what it said in the Islamic world)
1) A none Muslims can NOT rule over Muslim
2) The issue for Arabs over some "genocide" is nothing to do with people dying but rather a Muslims dying.
3) I also went on historical fact about the so called "Palestine" issue there no such a thing they are Arabs (Jordanians)
And my whole point the entire time is that your focus of it as an issue of Islam is incorrect; I generally get the Palestinian Christian perspective, which IS about land, it IS about occupation, and it's NOT about infidels or whatever. And I don't know why you keep insisting that Palestinians are Jordanians when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, retarded piece of shit.
And you have STILL avoided the issues I brought up to you: collective judgments upon an ethnic group as racism (point 1 avoided by you), differentiation between Arabs and Muslims (point 2 avoided by you), and how any of this justifies expulsion and occupation (point 3 avoided by you)
As for "Islam" (of course, the whole religion being represented by one person you mention) being connected to Hitler; I clearly demonstrated that another person from that same era, Avraham Stern, also had a connection with Hitler, and Stern was instrumental in the founding of the Israeli State. This is yet another point of mine that you have yet to respond to or even acknowledge.
1) Then Muslim minorities in non-Muslim countries clearly don't exist, right?
2) Again with the confusing of "Arab" and "Muslim." When George Habash died last year and received an honorary funeral from the PA with Mahmoud Abbas and everybody, how does this have to do with "Muslims dying" when Habash was a CHRISTIAN.
3) You entirely avoided my question of why Statelessness entitles expulsion. Yet another point of mine utterly disregarded by you.
2)What authority do you have to say that Palestinians have no right to self-identify; moreover, what support do you have to claim that Palestinians are Jordanians when it is entirely clear to every single person in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan that this is not the case?
while on the topic of minority there are lots of Arabs and Muslim in Israeli. unlike Christians in Egypt that are treated shitty. Arabs and Muslim get welfare in Israel, ran business etc etc
4) Yes, clearly racial discrimination is invented by Muslims, right? This is clearly bogus. The Islamic slave trade captured slaves from all frontiers, including central asia and parts of europe as well as west african slaves. The west african slaves were sold to the Islamic economies by west african kingdoms. Throughout the middle ages both muslims and christians enslaved one another, it wasn't an Islamic invention, they just participated in it.
In most Islamic countries, there is no law that states that it is forbidden to leave the religion. Now if you're talking about the Qur'an forbidding apostasy, I can find you the exact same thing in the Old Testament.
You seemed to have entirely missed the point of my comment about "why blacks are racist." I was saying that your comment that "arabs are racist" is the precise equivalent in logic to the statement that "blacks are racist" which i have heard from various racists from time to time. Therefore since you use the same logic as racists, you yourself are racist.
No it's based on actual observation. Somebody who would claim today that "the blacks have been enslaved again" or "the Jews are being shipped to the gas chambers again" would not be considered as extra sympathetic towards these groups, since what they claim is simply not the case. Likewise, your statement that "Christians (as opposed to Muslims) live in a shitty condition" in Egypt is simply not the case, and so you get no browny points for that.
Actually they don't even call themselves Muslims necessarily, it's put on their birth certificates and passports. And clearly you have no insight because you've only repeatedly shown your utter ignorance.
I don't think you even understand what racism is. When you group together 422 million people and load collective judgments upon them as an ethnic or racial group, even if your judgments are accusations of racism, that in itself is racism. It is PRECISELY the same thing as when I hear people say "black people are racist." Just as the statement "black people are racist" is itself racist, so too is your statement "Arabs are racist."
In areas where they try to institute Shari'a then this is the case. But again how does this justify Israel's blatant violations of international law? You have yet to address that.
It's about Islam - well then how does George Habash (a Palestinian Christian) and the PFLP come under this rubric? Surely you wouldn't shy from calling them a terrorist organization, and yet it was founded by and made up mostly of Christians (albeit secular ones).
Hizbullah - not a Palestinian organization, it is a Shi'ite Lebanese organization. Don't know how the similarity of how their salute looks to the Nazi salute counts as evidence of the racism of Palestinians.... this is just illogical, like wildly flailing about for whatever semblance of an argument you can muster up.
Quick review of your best points, and quick responses.
Arab Slave Trade - was part of the international slave trade. Your isolating and labeling of it as "Arab Slave Trade" is just to try to suggest that there was something especially Araby about it, as if Arabs are inherently just backwards (which is why I maintain that you are racist).
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni - why is this any more condemnable than Lehi's alliance with Nazi Germany, and Lehi has even provided Israel a PM, Shamir.
The problem in middle east have nothing to do with land or "cultural misunderstanding". The problem is Islam and the sooner leftist admit this fact the better for all.
Rather then the ad hominem and asserting what my position may or may not be why don't you address my statement and ask what my position is before you tell me what to think ?
2) Jews didn't kick them out. When israel became a country the arab leaders told all of their peeps to leave the Jewish areas and the next day 7 arab armies invaded a country whose half of their population was holocaust victims. After the to be palestinians left israel they chose not to remain and over the years have multiplied. they used to only be a hundred 2 hundred thousand now they are like a million something
There are two kinds of excuses for war crimes, denying that they happened or justifying their motivations. You're attempting the former here. But this is really stupid. The Arabs weren't just like "oh sweet the Jews have arrived, we can leave now!" Ever heard of Deir Yassin, for example? There were legitimate atrocities committed by the Stern Gang and Irgun and Haganah.
And as for the Arabs who were not physically forced out but were advised by various Arab leaders to do so, they did not "choose" to leave their homes as you state; they left because it had become a war zone and it was dangerous to remain. The difference, though, is that they were not permitted to return afterwards because the new State of Israel wouldn't allow them in, simply because they were Arab.
"1) If the Arabs could they would have done things fare [sic] worst than what the jews did."
God forbid if history was based on "would've's" and "could've's" and "what if?'s"! The reason this is bullshit is that you can't demonstrate these kinds of things factually, it simply reflects your own biased judgment, one that implies that there is something inherently inferior about the Arab peoples as compared with Jews or whomever else, i.e. racism.
1) Well according to hamas's constitution it state no jew in the in the middle east, it is also from the Arabs that we get "we will drive them to the sea" comes from.
After Israel left Gaza what did Israelis get? a daily rocket attack.
As to claim the war is about land and "the poor Palestinian people" is BS
2) And yes the jew didn't kick them out. It was the Jordanian that put a rummer saying "jews are raping Arabs woman" in order to get the "the Palestinians" to move so that the Arabs can go to war with Israel without killing Palestinian.
The Ottoman Empire neglected the Land of Israel, which was for them a remote periphery. Most of the inhabitants were Jews and Christians who populated the major cities, which, in themselves were sparse and backward, revolving around pilgrims to the holy sites. Beyond the cities were Bedouin nomads for whom the land was a passage between Egypt and Arabia. Maps and data of Israel's population at the time, recorded by the Pope's emissaries, fill the Vatican archives and attest to this.
ravdov571 2 years ago
We have only to look at the past 150 years in order to learn that those people who call themselves "Palestinians" have been new settlers in the Land of Israel. In order to have a reliable picture of Israel's settlement map one needs to look at all the waves of settlement, and not only those of the Jews. In order to properly discuss the issue of Israel's demography, one must be knowledgeable about the Arab settlement process in the context of modern history.
ravdov571 2 years ago
Historical evidence tells us another story. Historically, the Jewish and Arab settlement in Israel neither began in 1882 nor in 1948. To establish my argument, I will not resort to referring back in time to the Byzantine period and the time of the Khalif Omar, the periods in which most of the dwellers in Israel were Jews.
ravdov571 2 years ago
Arab propaganda has long extolled the fact that in 1948, the year of the State of Israel's independence and the year of the Nakba (Arabic for 'catastrophe') for them, there were three quarter Arabs and one third Jews in the expanse between the Jordan and the sea. In keeping with this polemic they always only emphasize the aliyah of Jews to Israel. According to the Arabs who adhere to this agenda, they have lived here since time immemorial and are only naturally increasing in population.
ravdov571 2 years ago
That is not to say there were no individuals or even large groups of thousands of Jews who previously settled in Israel. In 1740, for instance, tens of thousands of Hassidim settled in Hebron, Jerusalem, Safed, and Tiberia. There was also an aliyah from Yemin and Spain. Jews have always been making aliyah to Israel, even often endangering their lives. Despite this, until the beginning of WWI in 1914, 80% of Jerusalem's population was Jewish.
ravdov571 2 years ago
Arab propaganda has had an invested interest in establishing 1948 as Israel's demographic turning point, in the collective memory both of the world and of Arab populations. Regretfully, due to laziness, ignorance, or both, Jews, as well, have not examined the demographic facts. Indeed, what the pioneers coined as "the Second Return to Zion", began in 1882 with the aliyah of the first pioneers.
ravdov571 2 years ago
And...finally:
There is no ancient Palestinian history. There are no world renowned Palestinian artists, scientists, not one Palestinian literary masterpiece, no recognizable culture, no inventions... nothing that distinguishes Palestinians as a people. They are neither a unique people, nor a separate people with their own history. The Palestinians do not deserve a nation because they are not a nation.
Take you time in answering - no rush, no pressure. I'd be interested in your input on this.
ravdov571 2 years ago
The Palestinians already have a nation, Jordan. There, the indigenous majority is ruled by Bedouin royalty from Mecca. The Jordanians had control of the West Bank from 1948 to 1967 and never once offered it as a Palestinian state. Why not? The Egyptians held the Gaza Strip for much longer. Why didn't they create a Palestinian state if there were Palestinian people living there?
ravdov571 2 years ago
No one is offering to compensate the 800,000 Sephardic Jews whose assets were stolen when they were forced out of Arab countries in the 40s and 50s. Israel took in their refugees, the Arabs kept their 500,000 in camps. Until I see or hear one of you ISM/Peacenik types actively advocate for compensation or right of return of those Jews, you will NOT be taken seriously.
ravdov571 2 years ago
There is no Palestinian language. There is no Palestinian religion. Mohammed never claimed he was in Jerusalem. The Al Aqsa Mosque and Shrine Of Omar are built atop the ancient Jewish temples. The Jews held sovereignty over Jerusalem for 1300 years; the Arabs, a mere fraction of the time. There was never an Arab Palestinian nationalist movement until 1964. The majority of "Palestinians" according to British demographic surveys, arrived in Israel after 1917, seeking economic opportunities.
ravdov571 2 years ago
The PLO and its police torture people they don't like. They execute people without due process of law. Whatever Palestinian courts do exist, none do so to protect the rights of the accused. The PLO will not tolerate free expression and arrest and torture journalists who criticize the regime. The PLO offer no rights to women. Only among its followers in the Christian community, can women receive higher education and responsible jobs.
ravdov571 2 years ago
The PLO has no morals, national or otherwise. Their sole motivation is to instill hate from one generation to the next. The PLO has brought nothing but misery to its followers. The Palestinians know nothing of the creation of beauty, engage in no serious scholarship, pass nothing of greatness down the ages. Their legacy is purely of destruction.
ravdov571 2 years ago
There is no hope of the Palestinians ever honestly electing their leaders. At best, this ragtag collection of Middle Eastern peoples will accept whatever tyrant proves the most inscrutable and leads their tribe after Abu Mazen.
The Palestinians send their children to their deaths to make media propaganda points. Real nations care about their young. The PLO and its allied Islamic organizations practise child sacrifice under the guise of martyrdom.
ravdov571 2 years ago
The Palestinians and their political leadership bring war and instability to wherever they reside, be it Jordan, Lebanon or in the very territories Israel recently handed over to them. No one wants them as neighbors because they are too egotistical, hotheaded, selfish and immature to qualify as a responsible nation. No one will sign a meaningful agreement with any Palestinian leader because PLO diplomats have no ethics and lie with impunity. They never keep any of their promises.
ravdov571 2 years ago
Reasons why the Palestinians don't deserve a state:
There was never an independent Arab state called Palestine. At best, Palestine was a backwoods Turkish province. Hence, there were no pilgrimages to the "holy" Al Aqsa mosque. Jerusalem is not the third holiest site of Islam. Mecca and Medina are holy, Jerusalem was never mentioned in the same breath until the liberation of the Temple Mount by the Israelis in 1967.
ravdov571 2 years ago
Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Why? Because Arab leaders wanted to use them as a political tool against Israel. Out of the millions of refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
ravdov571 2 years ago
In fact here's a list of several points that you failed to address. If you do not address them then I will terminate this discussion.
1) How is it not racist to load collective judgments upon an ethnic group of 422 million?
2) Do you understand the distinction between Arab and Muslim?
4) How is Mohammad Amin al-Husayni's ties to Hitler more condemnable than Avraham Stern's?
3) How does any of this justify expulsion and occupation?
5) How does Statelessness entitle expulsion?
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) Muslims / Arabs show on their TV calling Jews and Christians pig and monkey.
And the kind of treatment they give to black (decadent of slaves) like shit not to mention black Sudanese and yet you don't see the general public objecting to this.
2) h t t p : / / w w w . p a l e s t i n e f a c t s . o r g / p f _ mandate _ g r a n d _ m u f t i . php
theracemixer 2 years ago
1) So every one of the 422 million Arabs came on TV and said "Jews are pigs and Christians are monkeys." What did the Christian Arabs say? You sure it wasn't just a handful of people you saw on YouTube?
2) This isn't even related to the question. I repeat: Do you understand the DISTINCTION between ARABS (hint, ethnic group) and MUSLIMS (hint, religious group)?
Irtidad 2 years ago
3) Most of the were not victim of expulsion.
It was the Arabs leaders that told them to leave in 1967
4) i don't know who Avraham Stern' even if you compare him (i don't know of what for what) he dose not compare have the same authority to that of
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni's who is in fact a MUFFFFFFFFFTY get it ? get that in your head
theracemixer 2 years ago
3) It certainly was NOT 1967 where anybody told the Palestinians to leave, except when the State of Israel pushed them out. Maybe you're thinking of 1948 when some Arab leaders advised that Palestinian civilians leave because it was a war zone.
4) Why don't you do a little research then, huh? He was the founder of Lehi, one of three paramilitary groups who were fundamental to the establishment of the State of Israel. His group was considered a terrorist organization by the British government.
Irtidad 2 years ago
4 continued) Lehi, along with Irgun, was responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre, as well as several others. In 1949 Israel granted Lehi members amnesty, and in the 1970's former members could receive the honorary "Lehi ribbon." Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was a high-level member of Lehi.
Irtidad 2 years ago
3 continued) No Arab leader as ever told any Palestinian to leave permanently. Never. They have simply advised Palestinian civilians to avoid war zones with the hope and expectation that after the war they may return. Mot of the time they have not been able to return, not because they don't want to, but because Israel doesn't want to tarnish its demographic with them "dirty" Arabs.
Irtidad 2 years ago
3) yep i was thinking of 1948 and i am right. so there
4) Again they are not of the same equivalence one is a member of organisation the other is a LEADER get it a leader of an Arab world. as for the British calling him a terrorist so what? they called Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi a terrorist beside was it not the British that brought about Israel? why use them for your side of argument? on that point tell me what the British called Arafat ? please do
theracemixer 2 years ago
After 1939 the British were seen by many in the Yishuv as the greatest obstacle to the foundation of a Jewish State because they had cut off the flow of Jewish immigration. That's why many British officials were assassinated by members of these paramilitary groups. Former Israeli Prime Ministers Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were members of Lehi and Irgun respectively. These are LEADERS.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) Yitzhak Shamir WAS the magic word being NOT a leader at the time. The mufti on the other hand was.
in fact Arafat did the same thing.
And the fact you compare Yitzhak Shamir with Mohammad Amin al-Husayni ally of greatest murder of 20th century shows what you are all about. under Hitler and his fuckers 50 MILLIONS DIED.
theracemixer 2 years ago
2) Jews were there before Muslims and Arabs and they left due to persecution and forced out by Romans and later on by Muslims.
And now they have returned and settled
its not their fault that Arabs were told to leave the area.
like it or not there was not such thing as Palestinian STATE
theracemixer 2 years ago
By your logic we should all return to East Africa since that's where we all originate from. And who the heck knows where my ancestors were 2000 years ago? Even if I did know, would I have the right to go to those who live there now and say "out of my house" ?
TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS WHY STATELESSNESS MEANS ILLEGITIMACY AND THUS ENTITLES EXPULSION.
Irtidad 2 years ago
You know what i am not your echo chamber. Go and find some one else to say the same thing over and over again.
I've made it clear
Palestinians (really Jordanians) are demanding for a sate that they never had to START with.
further more human evolution may have started in East Africa but there was NO STATE at that time.
theracemixer 2 years ago
/watch?v=A8sDder6Yx0
theracemixer 2 years ago
Do you know what a Muffffffffffftiiiii is? It's somebody who interprets how Islam should be incorporated into law. It's not like a Caliph or a medieval Pope-King or whatever other kind of LEADER you are making him out to be. I.e. it's not like he had authority over the Palestinian people.
Furthermore I wasn't comparing Shamir to the Mufti, I was comparing Stern, who in fact did have a correspondence with Hitler.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Are you going to respond to the comment left by "ravdo"
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes. Actually I'm thinking about making a video response.
Irtidad 2 years ago
I won't hold my breath
theracemixer 2 years ago
Irtidad
so much for the video you said will make
theracemixer 2 years ago
Believe it or not, I actually have a life outside of YouTube. Don't get too anxious, I know you're really interested in what I have to say (maybe).
Irtidad 2 years ago
well you made the comment not me/us
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes and I intend to follow through on it. Patience.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1 week still no video
theracemixer 2 years ago
And no you are not right. As I have just immediately stated, no Arab leader as ever told any Palestinian to leave permanently, ever! What you are referring to is that in 1948 some various Arab officials said it would be wise for Palestinian civilians to avoid the cross-fire by temporarily leaving the war-zone. This is precisely NOT what you are describing it as—as "yay we can leave now!"
Irtidad 2 years ago
Not true in the least. In 1948 Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same. Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
ravdov571 2 years ago
No I know who you're talking about, and generally speaking they make up a very small proportion of those who reject Zionism. I am living in Jordan right now, whose population is probably majority Palestinian-origin, and am living with a Jerusalem-originated Palestinian Christian family. I guess that's the extent of the personal interest.
Irtidad 2 years ago
No you are correct that not just anybody should open their mouth to criticize whatever if they are not affected by it, since they're likely to be ignorant of the complex dynamics and such. But you know, I'm living here and this is kinda what I'm specializing in.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Who are these "strange characters" you are referring to? And why does being opposed to the historical or modern Zionist movement necessarily mean "hating all jewish people"? And would it matter to you whether I am actually Arab or Palestinian?
Irtidad 2 years ago
Actually I shouldn't refer to modern Zionism as a movement since it's more of a narrative.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time, through its systematic delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel. Although not a priori anti-Semitic, the calls to dismantle the Jewish state, whether they come from Muslims, the Left, or the radical Right, increasingly rely on an anti-Semitic stereotype of classic themes, such as the manipulative "Jewish lobby," the Jewish/Zionist "world conspiracy," and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers."
ravdov571 2 years ago
theracemixer is an ignorant troll. Don't feed him.
PersianPaladin 2 years ago
The blockade is about security - OK I can maybe sorta envision how blockading fuel and electricity can be construed as for security, maybe, even though it's obviously collective punishment and thus a serious violation of the Geneva Conventions; but blockading food, water and even fucking school supplies? You gotta be kidding me.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) its funny to bring up the Geneva Conventions or the universal human right concerning Palestine or Arabs.
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to CHANGE his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes, I would agree with that. Now how does that justify Israel's violation of the 4th Geneva Convention against collective punishment?
Irtidad 2 years ago
So you agree with Article 18 and most Islamic countries are in violation by application of the sharia law. This is done for no other reason but to force dictate other person's religion.
theracemixer 2 years ago
BTW
Article 2 states that signatories are bound by the convention both in war, armed conflicts where war has not been declared and in an occupation of another country's territory.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: noncombatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:
theracemixer 2 years ago
(b) taking of hostages;
Does that ring a bell ?
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes, it is familiar; and Human Rights Watch has documented numerous cases of the IDF staying out in Gazan civilian homes while keeping them there; i.e. human shields, another violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Yes; therefore how is Israel's humanitarian stranglehold justified again? You talk about everything else but you have yet to even address this issue whatsoever.
Irtidad 2 years ago
There has been many case where members of Palestinian group caught smuggling weapons be it hamas or fatah by using civilian goods
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes we could continue to compare violations of international law all day. I acknowledge the violations by Hamas or Fatah. Do you acknowledge Israel's violations?
Irtidad 2 years ago
i never denied it.
Nor has there been a war without a violation since 1948.
But the fact of the matter is there is a solution.
1) Palestinians can cut their loss by accepting there won't be a Palestinian state and go to Jordan and Saudi (plenty of land for Palestinian in west bank,gaza and those that live outside the region (30 million in EU and US)
The EU,US and Israel can give them $ for compensation and resettlement
theracemixer 2 years ago
Hahahahaha, wow. Yeah, they should just be expected to pack up and leave, go ahead and ethnically cleanse themselves that way Israel doesn't have to do all that work, that's the "solution." And you know, the Holocaust could've been prevented, too, if the Jews who knew they were gonna die had just killed themselves Masada-style. Actually, this was Gandhi's advice, that the Jews should willingly face their executors with equanimity. Does that sound a tad racist? You are a racist.
Irtidad 2 years ago
You know, the underlying motivation for saying "You can't stay here because of your ethnicity and race, go somewhere else" is never out of concern for that people's welfare. It's racism, pure and blatant. You are an overt racist, despite whatever thin pretensions you have otherwise. I repeat: you are a racist. It is plain for all to see.
Irtidad 2 years ago
I mean, why else would you propose that to be the solution, other than to preserve the ethnic purity of The Land of Israel? Oh wait.... where does that sound familiar.... preserving ethnic purity of the nation.... hmm! Oh yeah, Nazi Germany.
Irtidad 2 years ago
You can call me whatever you like it matter not to me.
i on the other hand i'm not the type that calls blacks kafire, to Ethiopians habesha, to jew monkey, to Christians pig. nor i'm i a member that is hell bent to kill black Sudanese.
But when i offer the solution based on the fact Palestinians are in fact Jordanians and if they want to avoid death they should leave, i am the racist
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes, generalization is always the way of the racist. Blaming Palestinians for Darfur, for example, is racism. Saying "you can't stay here because of your ethnicity" is racism. Saying "you can't decide your own identity, I will decide that for you" is racism. You are a racist haha how can you not see this?
Irtidad 2 years ago
When you assert with some kind of authority that it is a "fact" that "Palestinians are in fact Jordanians".... I've already told you, I live in Jordan. Palestinians are NOT the same as Jordanians hahaha. Also, I doubt the Palestinian family whom I'm living with now would be out to call Christians "pigs," since they themselves are Christian.... does any of this get to you? Or maybe you're just too focused in your racist mindset to actually look at facts.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Prior to British mandate of "Palestine" it was part of the Ottoman empire,
Muslim conquests (632661)
Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)
Emirate of Transjordan (19211946)
Declaration of Independence (Israel)
14 May 1948.
at no point was there a state called Palestine.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Muslim conquests (632-661)
theracemixer 2 years ago
Do Kurds deserve to be treated like shit because they've never had a State? Do they deserve to be bombed and expelled, or should they be expected to pack up their bags and go somewhere else? You've avoided every single question I've posed to you, so answer me this one.
Irtidad 2 years ago
The Kurds didn't come out of nowhere thus they can go to the place of their origin. As to do they "deserve to be treated like shit"i don't know, i don't know much about them other than the bias part about them by Arabs. Before you give me they are innocent they done nothing wrong not ever. i know they have guerrilla fighters
theracemixer 2 years ago
"they can go to the place of their origin." Yeah, and the blacks can just go back to Africa, right?
Well I obviously already know that you don't know much; and I don't know why you'd presume me to say that "they're so innocent or whatever" since obviously there is the PKK. But just the fact that you say "I don't know" whether or not an ethnic group deserves to be treated like shit shows that whatever anti-racist pretensions you have are just a thin veil of bullshit.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And btw the Kurds have been living roughly where they are for as long as recorded history makes note of their ethnic distinctness. And they've never had a State of their own. But I guess by the latter point, according to your logic, they deserve to be dominated and expelled, since you seem to have no concept of human rights. I mean, "self-determination" is enshrined in international law, but apparently you disagree with this idea.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Afro-Americans in US have been there longer than most whites and Afro-Americans have white ancestors in them (DNA) as well as native indians nor do they (blacks) ask for a separate state within US.
theracemixer 2 years ago
And i hope i don't have to bring up the FACT they where BROUGHT BY FORCE to Americas. Palestinians and Kurds where merely gypsy and conquerors
Palestinians (conquerors)
Kurds (gypsy)
BTW jews,Palestinians,Kurds are all caucasoid. in other world belong to the same race. huff bluff booffff here goes your "racist" "racist" "racist" chauntra
theracemixer 2 years ago
It's really quite comical how your ignorance displays itself, as when you are unfamiliar with an ethnic group in the Middle East and so you refer to them as "gypsies" hahaha.
Oh and CLEARLY there can be no racism within the broad categories of caucasoid, mongoloid, and negroid! I mean, obviously the whole Hutu-Tutsu shtick had nothing to do with racism since both groups are negroid, right?
Irtidad 2 years ago
No, your position is not that racism against Palestinians and Kurds and others is not in fact racism, no, your position is that this is WORTHY racism. i.e. some racial and ethnic groups are simply unworthy peoples, and should have no rights. This is why you have absolutely no conception whatsoever of human rights, and this is why I still maintain that you are as dirty of a racist as a Klan member.
Irtidad 2 years ago
This is just getting funnier by the hour. Now you call me a Klan. OK lets see
1) Arabs had connection with racism against black that pre-date white raciest against blacks.
2) Arabs had connection to Hitler (fought for him)
3) Libya's Gaddafi and the Arab world gave money to member of a political group known as BNP.
BNP being founded by neo nazi and the leader was pictured with his buddy david duke the grand Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) get it try again ?
theracemixer 2 years ago
And yes Kurds are gypsies.
gypsies is a conmen term given to a group of people that don't settle. Kurds were by in large just that (they never settled until the late in history)
theracemixer 2 years ago
This is getting to be same tactics used by Muslims (when one points how backward Islam is Muslims react by saying racist, racist )
theracemixer 2 years ago
No, gypsy is term applied to the Roma people. Moreover, your description of them as a group that "doesn't settle" is entirely accurate (after all, you yourself admitted that you are utterly ignorant as to the Kurdish people). I don't know about you, but I wouldn't say that being settled in a specific region for at least 1700 years counts as being "gypsy."
Irtidad 2 years ago
Excuse me, entirely inaccurate*
Irtidad 2 years ago
Sahih bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 182: Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!" (see also Sahih Muslim Book 030, Number 5743)
theracemixer 2 years ago
ISLAM'S TEACHING ON SEX WITH MARRIED SLAVE GIRLS:
Quaran 4:24
Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hand possess. Thus Allah has ordained for you. (See also Quaran 23:1-6)
theracemixer 2 years ago
Tafsir al Jalalayn on Quran 4:24: And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle];
theracemixer 2 years ago
this is what God has prescribed for you.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3383: "Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's Messenger
theracemixer 2 years ago
(may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her." (see also Sahih Bukhari, 7.62.137)
theracemixer 2 years ago
MOHAMMED's TEACHING ON USING SLAVE WOMEN FOR SEX BEFORE THEN SELLING THEM:
Sahih Muslim: Book 008, Number 3371: Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said:
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time)
theracemixer 2 years ago
we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
theracemixer 2 years ago
This videos exposes why Muslims can't live alongside members of other religion.
/watch?v=hBOZyx68QQw
theracemixer 2 years ago
I'm not sure how you think quoting some a7adeeth counts as proving that Arabs are worthy of inferior or something? Not all Arabs are Muslims, a large number are Christian or secular, and most Muslims are non-Arabs; the largest Muslim country is Indonesia. Furthermore, I can find some really disgusting verses in the Old Testament, such as the commandment for parents to stone their children if they leave the faith; does this prove the inferiority of Jews?
Irtidad 2 years ago
And I'm not sure why you think a YouTube video is going to convince me anything about Islam, when I'm living in a country whose State religion is Islam.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And keep in mind, the Tanakh is the Holy Book of the Jews. What you are quoting are a7adeeth, sayings of the prophet, which do not carry the same status as the Qur'an, the supposed holy book.
Irtidad 2 years ago
But simply the fact that you resorted to this, instead of addressing ANY of my points and responses, shows your utter ignorance.
Irtidad 2 years ago
" large number are Christian or secular"
"when I'm living in a country whose State religion is Islam"
Just like the paedophile moo- ham-head
you contradicted yourself
theracemixer 2 years ago
Lol you're not even making any sense. There is no contradiction between that. The Jordanian constitution says "Islam is the State religion" but anywhere between 5-7% of the population is Christian (this number is much higher in other countries like Lebanon or Egypt), the majority of which are likely of Palestinian origin. I am currently living with a Palestinian-born family who are Greek Orthodox Christians.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Egypt
Muslim (mostly Sunni) 90%, Coptic 9%, other Christian 1%
Jordanian
Sunni Muslim 92%, Christian 6%
Lebanon
Muslim 59.7%
Lebanon ethnic make- is different to that of of other Arabs counties. due to its history.
And most of the Arabs countries have Sharia in their constitution, Shrai law does not permit member of other religion to rule Islamic countries, as the Sudanese guy in the video stated.
in Egypt Christian live is a shitty condition.
theracemixer 2 years ago
90% is the highest estimate for the percentage of Muslims in the country, it could be as low as 80%. Now I've been to Egypt, in fact my girlfriend is Egyptian (Christian), so I know that there's real discrimination, but saying "Christian[s] live in a shitty condition" is by far an overstatement.
Moreover, these numbers simply reflect people's family origins; a significant but unmeasured amount of them have personally rejected the religion or at least don't practice it.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Moreover, it is true that most Arab countries incorporate parts of their law from the Qur'an, but this is not the same thing as having Shari'a law. Shari'a law means Islamic through and through. Most Arab countries have laws from the Qur'an with regard to things like marriage and inheritance rights, and generally speaking they usually don't apply to religious minorities. It's only in Saudi Arabia where they chop off a thief's hand and such.
Irtidad 2 years ago
You can argue "estimate" or not all you like. but the fact of the matter is they call them self Muslims and apply as such in the censors.
I am not going to claim i have a magical power to say i have an insight in Muslims heart as moo ham head did.
But i present facts as it is and put them foreword.
theracemixer 2 years ago
"so I know that there's real discrimination, but saying "Christian[s] live in a shitty condition" is by far an overstatement"
This is something along the line what KKK would say
" We hugged them Blacks) long time ago but not any more. we just don't want them around any more"
theracemixer 2 years ago
As moo ham head said you can't force (sward) Christian into Islam but you can force them by mean of class status (demie class)
The majority of Christian in Egypt are poor. And as recently as 2009 the Egyptian gov ordered the slaughter of pigs (owned by Christian) in the name H1N1 when W.H.O and many medical organisation stated pigs and NOT the cause of the problem nor will it make a difference
theracemixer 2 years ago
Religious minorities are not in dhimmi status today in Arab countries., i.e. they don't have to pay the jizya.
Yes, the majority of Christians in Egypt are poor, because the majority of ALL Egyptians are poor; it's not because of their Christianity. Moreover, the slaughter of pigs really derives from paranoia over H1N1 here (and believe me, there really is a lot of paranoia), not some underhanded attempt to inconvenience Christians or whatever.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Is this a touch of takia you're pushing?
time and time again I've pointed out how member of other religion are discriminated and yet you keep making look its a one off thing and yet the condition is widespread and despite ample example you try to put it it is not discrimination.
All you done is out forth OPINION based on nothing to support what you say.,
theracemixer 2 years ago
When Arabs/ Muslims are supposedly get treated bad by JEW you get millions of Muslims/Arabs protesting ad nauseum.
But when non Arabs/ Muslims are treated like shit you hear not a pepe.
1000s of Sudanese (blacks) are refugees in Israel. whom are being killed Arabs/ Muslims but you don't get the protest.
theracemixer 2 years ago
And last I checked, Darfur protests were actually kinda a big deal. I certainly saw a shit ton more "Save Darfur" stuff in the US than anything to do with Israel and Palestine.
But of course this tactic of "why aren't you focusing on X" is a pure red herring, meant to avoid discussion of the issue at hand — the subject of the video on which we are commenting.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Speaking of which, the victims of Darfur are mostly black Muslims. They have the same religion as the Arabs in the government and the rest of the country. It's a racial conflict, nothing to do with religion.
Irtidad 2 years ago
If you're going to talk about discrimination the best way to do that would be to look at job discrimination. Of course that doesn't seem to rouse as much resentment as "they're slaughtering the pigs!" or whatever. And no, I've stated clear facts, maybe not facts that you're willing to accept, but facts nonetheless. It's clear you've never dealt with the region other than watching YouTube videos and whatnot,.
Irtidad 2 years ago
For your info
i've been in that part of the world. in fact i spent my childhood there. But is does not add or takeaway from the fact i presented.
I gave you things like you they are called NUMBERS,
Historical connection of Arabs/ Muslims to slavery, and Islamic conquest,
And you nothing but an opinion
theracemixer 2 years ago
Why do you suppose that numbers have this magical kind of power of being facts, while anything without numbers must clearly be opinion? The only numbers you provided are census numbers; no browny points for you here either.
The simple fact that I constantly have to remind you of the distinction between Arab and Muslim, and the fact that you seem taken aback by this, shows your utter ignorance. Nor would I except a toddler to take an academic interest in the politics surrounding him.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And most importantly, NONE of this justifies the illegal occupation and displacement of the Palestinian people, both Christian and Muslim. I mean, I could lambast the Mayans all day for their practice of human sacrifice, perhaps the most disgusting ritual ever, and yet that wouldn't justify the Spaniards' genocide against them.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Because numbers are what makes things FACT rather than opinion
Numbers are used in all sector of scientific.
The fact you are sitting down and posting comment on COMPUTER (meaning to calculate) depends on these magical things called numbers. But i know you being from that part of the world just can't understand this. much like all the things people of that part of the world are
(backward)
All you guys know is Allha uak bar and kaaaaaboooooommmm
theracemixer 2 years ago
You must really be proud that you could go to Wikipedia and find census numbers. Gold star for you! Your statement that I (meaning, a non-Arab, non-Muslim) only understand "Allha uak bar [horrendously misspelled i should say] and kaaabooom" is CLEARLY a statement of fact and not opinion, right? Haha I don't even need to say anything, you make a bigger ass of yourself than I could ever attempt. Of course you're just wiggling out from the embarrassment of your own ignorance.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And the funniest thing about it is, that the census numbers that you oh-so-intelligently found on Wikipedia only demonstrate further what I had repeatedly tried to pound into your half-retarded brain, that ARABS and MUSLIMS are NOT THE SAME THING.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) i did not use Wiki
2) The spelling was a joke, just like what i decided to say "kaaaaaaaabooooooooooooooomm"
3) I don;t need to go and look at statistic but if i do the magical things called NUMBERS would confirm more kaaabooom goes on in Islamic/ Arab world than any other country.
theracemixer 2 years ago
In fact enjoy
/watch?v=0Ex6FypUmTw
theracemixer 2 years ago
I don't know why you think this is educating in the slightest.... I've studied my history, you know, unlike you who rely on youtube videos for your education.
Irtidad 2 years ago
"Islamic/Arab world" - do you pay attention ever?
Hmm, what website did you use? And why does that make you more special?
Alright, if you wanna talk numbers let's talk numbers. Number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians since 2000: 237 in the OT and 490 in Israel. Number of Palestinians not engaged in hostilities (not including the objects of targeting killings) killed by Israeli security forces since 2000: 5 in Israel and 2187 in the OT. Clearly the Arabs are the bloodthirsty ones.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And add to the latter that 897 Palestinians in the OT and 3 in Israel were killed by Israeli Security Forces whom were not known whether they were engaging in hostilities or not.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Actually these numbers are slightly inaccurate now; they begin with the start of the second Intifada and end right when Israel begins its Gaza bombardment. If present numbers were added then the disparity would be much more massive.
Irtidad 2 years ago
When you are dropping shit from 3000ft in a landmass that masseur little in Km sq you will kill those whom you didn't mean to. unlike those who go on a bus for a soul reason of targeting civilians and go kaaaboom.
And no i learned what i know about moo ham headans from experience not YT.
But i use (give out YT links since its easy to pass on info)
theracemixer 2 years ago
That's where there's these things called the Geneva Conventions; their main point is the distinction between combatants and non-combatants. This is why dropping a nuke on a city, for example, would be against the Geneva Conventions, because you can't distinguish the two with such a method. Likewise with dropping a 1 ton bomb into a densely crowded area with the foreknowledge that there would be overwhelming civilian deaths, as Israel routinely does.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Even furthermore not all these deaths are from bombings. In the West Bank, for example, there are guard-towers placed in various places across the annexation wall. They frequently fire bullets indiscriminately into a nearby Palestinian town, sometimes killing even children.
Irtidad 2 years ago
"from experience"
Oh so you experienced the Islamic Conquest? Interesting. Moreover, clearly since you can't put numbers on your experience, that would eliminate it from the fact realm right?
Irtidad 2 years ago
Oppp did i forget to put number to it? OKAY 7 years in Khartoum paps use to go there for work and use to take me with him. And yes i've been other moo hamdans countries.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yup, that definitely gave you an insider's perspective on all of the Arab and Muslim world (which you still can't seem to differentiate). I mean, clearly Palestinian culture is the same as Sudanese, as well as throughout all Arabs and all Muslims.
Irtidad 2 years ago
There are difference in every culture and within a given culture and there is a diffrenc between Sudanese and "OT" but that makes no big difference by in large.
You keep avoiding fact after fact after fact in a hole i slap like other bleeding heart liberals but you won't get that from me
1st you assumed i was black and tried "why backs are raciest"
then you moved on thinking i was an American and tried to get the issue native indians into play and you still failed at that
theracemixer 2 years ago
Then you moved on to the ad hominem by calling me ignorant. Since i know you wanted me to respond in kind i didn't thus not give you an amo. This was another failure by you.
But when all else fail go to the tactic of diverting the issue. By asking me what i am all about.
They say if you "failed once try and try again " You have taken this to a whole new ball game. typical of moo ham headans
theracemixer 2 years ago
I never assumed you were anything (as opposed to you, who are now explicitly calling me a "moo ham headan"). I asked you a thousand hypothetical questions, and you never so much as acknowledged that I said them. I was bringing up points of comparison to show the serious faults in your logic, but this seemed to fly over your head completely.
Irtidad 2 years ago
When I talked about the fault of collective judgment for a large ethnic group spanning a huge territory, you COMPLETELY diverted everything by quoting some a7adeeth. Moreover, I explicitly called you out on several red herrings (do you even know what a red herring is?)
Irtidad 2 years ago
The first comment i made on this video was in fact (This is not about land) and explained why and how (by presenting what it said in the Islamic world)
1) A none Muslims can NOT rule over Muslim
2) The issue for Arabs over some "genocide" is nothing to do with people dying but rather a Muslims dying.
3) I also went on historical fact about the so called "Palestine" issue there no such a thing they are Arabs (Jordanians)
theracemixer 2 years ago
4) i also showed Muslims are the last people to claim racism since it all stared by them.
2000 years ago there was slavery but it was Muslims that based it on race.
a) i started from the time of mooo ham head (may my piss be up on him) to the present (in Sudan)
b) Islam's connection Hitler.
c) Fact that in Islamic countries it is forbidden to change from Islam ( this is in direct violation of UN human right you fucks all ways use...
theracemixer 2 years ago
And my whole point the entire time is that your focus of it as an issue of Islam is incorrect; I generally get the Palestinian Christian perspective, which IS about land, it IS about occupation, and it's NOT about infidels or whatever. And I don't know why you keep insisting that Palestinians are Jordanians when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, retarded piece of shit.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And you have STILL avoided the issues I brought up to you: collective judgments upon an ethnic group as racism (point 1 avoided by you), differentiation between Arabs and Muslims (point 2 avoided by you), and how any of this justifies expulsion and occupation (point 3 avoided by you)
Irtidad 2 years ago
As for "Islam" (of course, the whole religion being represented by one person you mention) being connected to Hitler; I clearly demonstrated that another person from that same era, Avraham Stern, also had a connection with Hitler, and Stern was instrumental in the founding of the Israeli State. This is yet another point of mine that you have yet to respond to or even acknowledge.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) Then Muslim minorities in non-Muslim countries clearly don't exist, right?
2) Again with the confusing of "Arab" and "Muslim." When George Habash died last year and received an honorary funeral from the PA with Mahmoud Abbas and everybody, how does this have to do with "Muslims dying" when Habash was a CHRISTIAN.
3) You entirely avoided my question of why Statelessness entitles expulsion. Yet another point of mine utterly disregarded by you.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) Muslaim minorities do exist in fact here is one
just last week
/watch?v=dNn_fPB5NUM&feature=sub
2) Many people are used by Muslims
few example
/watch?v=CvlvS2a2AVE
3) There has never been a state called Palestine ( they were part of Jordan before Israel became a sate) fact fact fact
i may not like gravity sometimes but its still there. me not liking it does not make the fact go away. The same apply here
they are Jordanians.
theracemixer 2 years ago
1) How does statelessness entitle expulsion?
2)What authority do you have to say that Palestinians have no right to self-identify; moreover, what support do you have to claim that Palestinians are Jordanians when it is entirely clear to every single person in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan that this is not the case?
You will address these two points of mine now.
Irtidad 2 years ago
while on the topic of minority there are lots of Arabs and Muslim in Israeli. unlike Christians in Egypt that are treated shitty. Arabs and Muslim get welfare in Israel, ran business etc etc
theracemixer 2 years ago
4) Yes, clearly racial discrimination is invented by Muslims, right? This is clearly bogus. The Islamic slave trade captured slaves from all frontiers, including central asia and parts of europe as well as west african slaves. The west african slaves were sold to the Islamic economies by west african kingdoms. Throughout the middle ages both muslims and christians enslaved one another, it wasn't an Islamic invention, they just participated in it.
Irtidad 2 years ago
In most Islamic countries, there is no law that states that it is forbidden to leave the religion. Now if you're talking about the Qur'an forbidding apostasy, I can find you the exact same thing in the Old Testament.
Irtidad 2 years ago
"that makes no big difference by in [sic] large"
I challenge you to back that statement up as fact as not as conjecture.
Irtidad 2 years ago
You seemed to have entirely missed the point of my comment about "why blacks are racist." I was saying that your comment that "arabs are racist" is the precise equivalent in logic to the statement that "blacks are racist" which i have heard from various racists from time to time. Therefore since you use the same logic as racists, you yourself are racist.
Irtidad 2 years ago
No it's based on actual observation. Somebody who would claim today that "the blacks have been enslaved again" or "the Jews are being shipped to the gas chambers again" would not be considered as extra sympathetic towards these groups, since what they claim is simply not the case. Likewise, your statement that "Christians (as opposed to Muslims) live in a shitty condition" in Egypt is simply not the case, and so you get no browny points for that.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Actually they don't even call themselves Muslims necessarily, it's put on their birth certificates and passports. And clearly you have no insight because you've only repeatedly shown your utter ignorance.
Irtidad 2 years ago
I don't think you even understand what racism is. When you group together 422 million people and load collective judgments upon them as an ethnic or racial group, even if your judgments are accusations of racism, that in itself is racism. It is PRECISELY the same thing as when I hear people say "black people are racist." Just as the statement "black people are racist" is itself racist, so too is your statement "Arabs are racist."
Irtidad 2 years ago
Yes but... Red herring. Stay focused or leave the debate.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And i'm sure you going to tell me there is NO sharia law forbidding to convert to other religion if one is a Muslim right ?
nope nothing will happen to you, nothing you'll not get killed, you will not go to jail, they will just give you a house, a car ,and bodyguards
theracemixer 2 years ago
When you mentioned native Americans i thought you were talking about north America.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Yes; modern Mexico is part of North America right?
Irtidad 2 years ago
In areas where they try to institute Shari'a then this is the case. But again how does this justify Israel's blatant violations of international law? You have yet to address that.
Irtidad 2 years ago
It's about Islam - well then how does George Habash (a Palestinian Christian) and the PFLP come under this rubric? Surely you wouldn't shy from calling them a terrorist organization, and yet it was founded by and made up mostly of Christians (albeit secular ones).
Irtidad 2 years ago
Hizbullah - not a Palestinian organization, it is a Shi'ite Lebanese organization. Don't know how the similarity of how their salute looks to the Nazi salute counts as evidence of the racism of Palestinians.... this is just illogical, like wildly flailing about for whatever semblance of an argument you can muster up.
Irtidad 2 years ago
Quick review of your best points, and quick responses.
Arab Slave Trade - was part of the international slave trade. Your isolating and labeling of it as "Arab Slave Trade" is just to try to suggest that there was something especially Araby about it, as if Arabs are inherently just backwards (which is why I maintain that you are racist).
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni - why is this any more condemnable than Lehi's alliance with Nazi Germany, and Lehi has even provided Israel a PM, Shamir.
Irtidad 2 years ago
The problem in middle east have nothing to do with land or "cultural misunderstanding". The problem is Islam and the sooner leftist admit this fact the better for all.
theracemixer 2 years ago
See, this is why we can't have a two state solutions.
Idiots like you from both sides saying "It's the jews" "It's the muslims".
Both sides are doing stupid shit. Israel is the main cause of this problem for their control over the situation.
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
Rather then the ad hominem and asserting what my position may or may not be why don't you address my statement and ask what my position is before you tell me what to think ?
theracemixer 2 years ago
What is your position?
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
The Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth.
Based on history and fact on the ground.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Oh, so you agree that Israel has committed human rights violations and war crimes?
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
That was not what i meant but what you said is nether here or there.
1) both side committed war crime
2) There never been such state called palestine
3) If the Arabs really wanted to help the Palestinian they would have taken them to their own country.
theracemixer 2 years ago
1) I agree. However, Israeli has committed them to a greater variety and extent.
2) Regardless. That doesn't give the Jews a right to kick those people living on the land out of their homes and takeover.
3) Hundreds of thousands if not millions of refugees are living, in horrid conditions, in refugee camps in Arab states.
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
2) Jews didn't kick them out. When israel became a country the arab leaders told all of their peeps to leave the Jewish areas and the next day 7 arab armies invaded a country whose half of their population was holocaust victims. After the to be palestinians left israel they chose not to remain and over the years have multiplied. they used to only be a hundred 2 hundred thousand now they are like a million something
prjctcivilian 2 years ago
"2) Jews didn't kick them out."
There are two kinds of excuses for war crimes, denying that they happened or justifying their motivations. You're attempting the former here. But this is really stupid. The Arabs weren't just like "oh sweet the Jews have arrived, we can leave now!" Ever heard of Deir Yassin, for example? There were legitimate atrocities committed by the Stern Gang and Irgun and Haganah.
Irtidad 2 years ago
And as for the Arabs who were not physically forced out but were advised by various Arab leaders to do so, they did not "choose" to leave their homes as you state; they left because it had become a war zone and it was dangerous to remain. The difference, though, is that they were not permitted to return afterwards because the new State of Israel wouldn't allow them in, simply because they were Arab.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) If the Arabs could they would have done things fare worst than what the jews did.
2) Has been addressed by prjctcivilian and he is correct
theracemixer 2 years ago
3) To say millions live in horrid condition in Arab states is stupid. last i checked Palestinian are Arabs too. ..
theracemixer 2 years ago
"1) If the Arabs could they would have done things fare [sic] worst than what the jews did."
God forbid if history was based on "would've's" and "could've's" and "what if?'s"! The reason this is bullshit is that you can't demonstrate these kinds of things factually, it simply reflects your own biased judgment, one that implies that there is something inherently inferior about the Arab peoples as compared with Jews or whomever else, i.e. racism.
Irtidad 2 years ago
1) Well according to hamas's constitution it state no jew in the in the middle east, it is also from the Arabs that we get "we will drive them to the sea" comes from.
After Israel left Gaza what did Israelis get? a daily rocket attack.
As to claim the war is about land and "the poor Palestinian people" is BS
theracemixer 2 years ago
2) And yes the jew didn't kick them out. It was the Jordanian that put a rummer saying "jews are raping Arabs woman" in order to get the "the Palestinians" to move so that the Arabs can go to war with Israel without killing Palestinian.
theracemixer 2 years ago
Again if the Arabs cared about Palestinians they would have taken them to saudi or Jordan since Palestinian are Jordanians
If you stile going to say "Palestinian state" go to 1900 and find me the map of Palestinian state.
theracemixer 2 years ago