Holocaust Denial Movie Debu...read emgnerd's comments!

[jrwel14]

The burden is on the Deniers. Someone who knows that it happened. Needs just one bit of proof to show that it did. Deniers must deny everything. For if they admit to one bit of facts. They have admited that it did happen. So, Deniers deny everything. So, talking to one is a waste of time. They don't want to lose their denier badges.

[Dragon00Majo00]

I cannot believe that people are so ignorant that they spout off at the mouth with nothing but expletives...and expect to be taken seriously. Quite frankly, revisionists and deniers need to hunker down and get some evidence, rather than talking circles around a point. The IHR website is redundant drivel, and only a completely uninformed person would fall for such childish potshots and a "Zionist conspiracy" being held responsible for the world's problems. Ridiculous.

I love your movie Sobe :-)

[Fi10jew]

"Jewishness" is matrilineal. If your grandfather was part Jewish, you're not.

[Fi10jew]

Because offending Jewish people never killed them.

[Tex57]

Sobe is a God. Nuff said.

[sobe104839]

Thanks. :-)

Sorry I haven't been able to reply, I was busy with my website.

[Trev1er01]

"Hitler made his lies"? And yes, we all know Germany was occupied by loads of Jews who sucked the living out of her - when Germans starved to death, Jewish bankers sucked all the money and living out of the country. Just like they are today in U.S.

[HeavyMetalZombie]

Got any proof to back that claim up or just what Hitler wanted everyone to believe.

[guderianpz]

...you are picking at straws. Not caring about whether you hurt their feelings doesn't mean you didnt intend to affront them with those words. I can't believe I had to explain that to you.

[sobe104839]

"I can't believe I had to explain that to you."

Me neither. ;-)

People do not give a flying @#$% as to whether emgnerd cares or not he hurts someone's feelings. The point being made is that the context in which emgnerd throws the word "kike" around is obviously offensive, e.g.: "Now you fucking kikes are doing a 180 saying that calling jews kikes is 'racist' when you said earlier that jews aren't a race. Kike."

[sobe104839]

Actually I can believe that now, remembering how logical emgnerd has been when, in his furious ramblings, he screams and cries "kike!".

[guderianpz]

It does when they argue the disruptive nature has do with freedom of expression.

[guderianpz]

Whether you care has little to do with its intent.

[guderianpz]

hardly in the manner you use it. When you use it it is to demean and offend the other person. Which by definition would be an insult.

[guderianpz]

How does spewing hateful words further any development of ones ideas? The english language is rather comprehensive and there are other, neutral and non-confrontational, ways to express oneself that won't infringe on the rights of others. And dont scream that these limitations are great. If that were case the KKK wouldn't be able to march through black neighborhoods. What ever limits you have are minimal and serve to protect others from harm.

[guderianpz]

You don't seem to know what duress is do you? Expression and words can cause harm and drive people to commit acts that would cause harm. With "fighting words", which i brought up earlier, they serve no purpose to further ones ideas and any value that can be derived from them is vastly countered by their disruption of order and morality.

[sobe104839]

I'm not lying. It seems the only thing you have been able to do here is call posters (whom you know practically nothing about) "kike", "fucking kike", and similar insults. Also, "kike" is, as guderianpz pointed out, not <b>necessarily</b> an insult, but in the context in which you throw around the word, it is.

[guderianpz]

Also on the topic of our forefathers limits on freedom of speech were created right from the start of our nation. Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 anyone? Believe me this is the form of government they intended. It is the judicial branch's job to interpret the law and thus balance laws where they intertwine, like where freedom of expression reaches the point where it can cause or incite harm of another person. Heard of duress maybe?

[guderianpz]

Our forefathers wouldn't like you either. Trying to create a master race and move your unwanted elements from society.

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

[guderianpz]

so you claim. We aren't talking about Germany here anyways so stay on topic. This is American law we are dealing with. And why do you keep talking about banning words? You are going off tangent into extremes that hold no bearing on what we are talking about.

[guderianpz]

when did I say that? whether some one else said that doesn't make it my opinion. And correct it is the YOU use it that makes it hateful. And who said I was offended? I just said you are racist loony and loonies don't get taken seriously.

[sobe104839]

Should I block this @#$%^&* loon, since he only seems to be capable of screaming "fucking kike" at other reasonable posters?

[guderianpz]

Its not always hateful just the way you use it.

[guderianpz]

oh and just clear I don't care about banning vulgar words and holocaust denial. sure keep it legal. You are still a racist loony, just a legal one.

[guderianpz]

"how is saying 'kike' hateful?"

It hateful because you use it in a negative connotation, as an insult and false brand. And honestly I would prefer you wouldn't start jumping topics. Those being, 1 you are racist and 2 that freedom of speech isn't absolute freedom.

[guderianpz]

you can say what ever you want? I just posted a court case which definitively limits freedom of speech and you still claim that this freedom is absolute. For one claiming to see through the hoaxes and falsehoods of the world you have very little knowledge of the own structure of the society you live in.

[guderianpz]

you entire post is classic as you what you are claiming you aren't doing. you creating a vast generalization and applying to people you really have only the basic conscious knowledge of their existence. While you can place a negative label on me I don't see how you can place one on people you little concept of.

[guderianpz]

Essentially by definition if you say something hateful you are a hater. It becomes racist when you apply those negative connotations to a general population on which you have little or no grounds to speak of. When you call a person a Kike or Jew as an insult, without even knowing if they are jewish, that is hateful and anti-semitic because it is said on no valid grounds.

[guderianpz]

It has ALWAYS been limited. seriously just look up some court cases! Example Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire limited the use  of "fighting words". Seriously emgnerd you don't need a law degree to see that speech is LIMITED!

[guderianpz]

No more or less its the negative connotations in which you refer to jews and things related to jews. Freedom of speech has always been limited, and not just racially. You can say Kike in a positive connotation making it not antisemitic. alas you havent been doing that. When you fill your speech with hatred you become a hater. Its quite simple.

[guderianpz]

sure not everyone but you most certainly are even by the most conservative definitions.

I dont think I need to cite examples from this board.

[sobe104839]

I never said that anyone who criticizes what Jews do is a Jew-hating loony. What is it for you today, strawman day?

[1emart1]

haha I just came here to check when someone responded to one of my comments and noticed this exchange as I was scrolling through. "stawman day", haha thats great.

[sobe104839]

No, not every Jew-hating loony is a Christian, and Rex never claimed so.

[1emart1]

Sickle cell anemia is more common in certain parts of Africa b/c the heterozygous individuals r more resistant to malaria. Does this mean "African" is a race (i dont mean black here, there a black people outside of these parts of africa)

[1emart1]

Tay Sachs is a genetic disorder that is more common in Jewish populations (particularly the Montreal Jewish population) b/c Jews tend to marry and copulate with other Jews. This phenomena can be observed in any population in which a particular allele is initially prevalent and there is not much gene flow. Short arms and other diseases appear more often in Amish pop's for the ame reason

[sobe104839]

Yeah, blaming Jews for problems in society is nothing new. Jews were also blamed for poisoning wells, amongst other things. The claim that Jews conspirated to deceive or hurt someone is hundreds of freakin years old.

[sobe104839]

armes kleines emgnerd. Because, as we all know here, emgnerd is a filthy Jew! Thus, the reason he was accusing me of being one is because he is trying to cover up his filthy actions!

[DeutscherWeltmeister]

Where are you from?

[sobe104839]

Why does it matter?

[sobe104839]

This is priceless. Emgnerd claims <b>I</b> lost and he has brought NO ARGUMENT to the table. All he has been able to do, the blöde, is to claim that I am a Jew (thusly embarrassing himself)and spout his baloney rhetoric, which doesn't substitute an argument.

[sobe104839]

This "you're a Jew" rambling is idiotic. Stick to the topic or leave the thread.

[floghammer]

Wait a minute! Yousaid you're a quarter Jew and a quarter native american. How can you say that even injuns like you can see there is nothing worse than a kike? You're just as much kike as you are injun. And what is half german/irish? Isn't that a quarter kraut and a quarter mick? and then there's that polack thing...no wonder you hate so much, you don't even know what you are.

[octo333]

That's right, read denierbud's comments. Look at the profiles of the people who wrote them. Then you will quickly see why no serious historian, scholar or thinking person in general takes revisionism seriously. "Evidence" of denierbud, Irving, Luetcher and Krege does not survive long when you take it off of neo-nazi websites and apply it to the real world.

[sobe104839]

All of denierbud's comments have been responded too. Oh, and the second sentence of the beauty that you made above is a circular argument.

[sobe104839]

Maybe if you scream loud enough, someone besides from the Islamic Republic of IRAN will listen to your pathetic ramblings, you blöde.

[sobe104839]

Explain were I lied WITH EVIDENCE.

[1emart1]

You are laughably wrong. First of all, Sephardic Jews are from Spain, Morrocco, Portugal, etc. And they are different cultures, not races. There are no illnesses specific to Jews, although there are some that tend to get expressed more commonly (ex Tay-Sachs).

The Nazis did not care what people 'believed'; if someone had a Jewish parent or grandparent, they were considered Jewish. What if Stone or Goldstein said that they werent Jewish? Would you still consider them to be?

[1emart1]

I did not think your level of racism was humanly possible. I hope you dont actually believe any of that crap about genetics (Im in medical science, so if you really want to get in to an argument about genetics, I will tear you to shreds). Now, people who are RELIGIOUS are theists, while those who are CULTURAL/ETHNIC Jews need not. If you consider there to be a 'Jewish race', then that could be a third side to Jewishness. Regardless, there are 2 answers how there can be Jews that are atheist

[sobe104839]

For the last time, you stupid blöde, you need to tell me how you determined my religion and/or ethnicity.

Whether it's ethnicity, blood or religion in here,I'd like our resident turkey here to tell us how he determined it through YouTube posts.

Iditota.

Don't you feel smart now?

[1emart1]

That is because there are two separate things...Jewish religion and Jewish ethnicity. The former is obvious, but the latter has really only arisen through persecution. Anyone who was/is labeled and summarily persecuted falls under the Jewish ethnicity. It doesnt matter to bigots like you if one believes in god or not, if they look or act Jewish to you your going to treat them differently. So it is the fault of people like you that have given rise to Jews as a people rather than only a religion.

[sobe104839]

Actually, there's an explanation that doesn't require the imagination that you have, but why would I bring it up since we all know what you're going to say. Only morons will actually think that religion is determinable through YouTube comments and that I am a "Jewish nigger".

Don't you feel smart now?

[sobe104839]

how did you determine I was a "Jewish nigger"? Thanks for posting. They really are a great help.

I was referring to another post above were I wrote:

"BTW, "Belzec" is pronounced "Bewshetz" in Polish, right?"

don't you feel smart now?

[smellwig]

NormaNiss: I think the 10 minute rule is new. Youtube might not have had a time limit earlier but now needs one or they'd run out disc space. Older videos can stay online but new ones must be shorter. That's why sobe104839 directs us to google. This doesn't make him a liar or a fool.

[sobe104839]

I already knew that, see my posts above. I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you determined that I am a "Jewish nigger" through YouTube comments. You've done so much damage to "revisionism" you couldn't have done better If you weren't a hysteric!

[sobe104839]

Actually, Belzec is Belshetz in <b>Polish</b>. And I'm not a Jew, however I urge you to continue so I can publish them for many to see. Do you understand? I'm not going to hold your hand forever and guide you through this. Thanks for showing what "revisionism" is all about, Nazischwein.

[sobe104839]

I am still waiting for the <b>hysteric</b> to tell me how he can determine my religion through YouTube comments. I thank you for your ongoing disservice to "revisionism". It isn't a straw man because I am not pinning anything on denierbud. I merely pointed out his bad Polish and German pronunciation. Do you get it now?

[sobe104839]

I am still waiting for the <b>hysteric</b> to tell me how he can determine my religion through YouTube comments. I thank you for your ongoing disservice to "revisionism". It isn't a straw man because I am not pinning anything on denierbud. I merely pointed out his bad Polish and German pronunciation. Do you get it now?

[sobe104839]

I never "cried" about the mistakes in the diesel thread.

[sobe104839]

Thanks for your comments "emgnerd". They truly help me and will be published on my blog, and later my website, for thousands to see and find out what "revisionism" is about. Like octo noted below me, you have just showed the world what "scientific" and "historical" "revisionism" is about.

[sobe104839]

I'll tell you again. It doesn't disprove his movie, I was just saying that I found his English accent annoying.

That <b>isn't</b> a straw man since denierbud </b>did</b> make pronounciation errors. By the way, thanks for calling me a Jew. Maybe one day you shall explain to me how you determine religiousness through YouTube comments. In the meanwhile, I will continue to comment on your calling me a Jew on my blog.

[octo333]

emgnerd's last comment sums up why denial/revisionism has zero credibility in the real world, amoungst actual historians. For all the guise of "science" and "research" evaporates once you rattle their cage just a little bit and the true colors show. Don't feel too bad, though. I am sure if you moved to Tehran someone might take you seriously.

[sobe104839]

Nobody claims that "Non-polish speaking people can never be holocaust historians" or that the fact that denierbud has an annoying English accent discredits his movie.

With all due respect, I don't think you know what a straw man is. A straw man would be like attributing an argument to you that you didn't make. Pointing out that denierbud has bad pronunciation is not a straw man.

[sobe104839]

strawman argument, Mr. Emgnerd. But this isn't surprising coming from a "revisionist".

[sobe104839]

I did not delete any post. Please realize that sometimes YT comments won't appear before calling me "dipshit" (not what I would call an argument).

[sobe104839]

Go right ahead--those "emotional outbursts" are months old, outdated, and also show Berg's "emotional outbursts" after my trying to stop the mud-slinging between me and Berg. I won't delete any of them.

Now time for your question: should I start posting links to were you showed yourself up as an true believer who only denies the Holocaust because you're an antisemite?

[sobe104839]

Can you explain and be clearer? By the way, by calling me a "dipshit" you don't debunk my video; you only show yourself up as an emotional whiner.

[alanheath]

This is a very well made and researched video.

I have travelled tens of thousands of km on European railways and not once did I see a freight car like denierbud finds.

Denierbud's logic is so perverse that I can only assume he is deliberatly lying.

Incidentally your German and Polish pronunciation is also better than his.

[sobe104839]

Thanks. The reason why my pronunciation is better is because I am a native South American, so I am used to that "dry" accent in German and Polish. The sloppy pronunciation is bud's vids was somewhat annoying. BTW, "Belzec" is pronounced "Bewshetz" in Polish, right?

[alanheath]

correct - the l and z are not l and z but other letters that will probably not come out on your computer but here is a try ł and ż

[Jheitwler]

Denierbud didn't show us freight cars. He showed us cattle cars because that is what survivors say transported them to the camps. The survivors say "cattle cars" because it makes Nazis sound mean but then they say that fellow passengers suffocated in these cattle cars which is impossible. Denierbuds logic is quite sound, it is the debunking that sounds crazy.

[sobe104839]

Explain to me where denierbud proved that a mass of people in the hot summer of 1942 could not have suffocated in cattle cars. All he said is "there are air apetures, thus they can't suffocate". The victims in these cattle cars were literally crushed on top of each other like canned sardines. I think I should have emphasized this more. Yet another possibility, as smellwhig pointed out, is the victims died of something else but Rajzman could not diagnose the cause of death correctly.

[sobe104839]

Ummm...

What does length of the video have to do with anything?

You haven't 'exposed' me for a liar or a fool. This is the fist comment from 'NormaNiss' I think, maybe i'm wrong.

[smellwig]

And if you doubt my characterization of Nuremburg as crap, read Article(s) 19 and 21 of the Charter. If you don't know what "judicial notice" means, look it up. Then you too will say 'holy fucking shit, this really was farce! NOTHING in this testimony was be used as evidence of anything'

[sobe104839]

It takes but a look at the US Federal Rules of Evidence to realize that taking judicial notice of facts deemed to be of "common" or "general" knowledge is provided for in these rules as well. Nothing particularly 'Nurembergian' there. thus,the two posts you posted above are debunked. WBR,

S

[smellwig]

Yes, common and general knowledge are words that exist in the US Federal Rules of Evidence but you need to understand what they mean and how they are applied in courts around the world and compare that to how they were applied at Nuremberg. As always, I remain undebunked.

[sobe104839]

"Common or general knowledge (in the US at least) are facts like water freezes at 0 c or the sun rises in the east. Taking judicial notice of anything written in an official government report, especially when the only governments asked to submit reports are allies or puppets of the victors is what makes Nuremberg a complete waste of time."

Provide evidence for your assertions. As always, you are debunked.

[smellwig]

Common or general knowledge (in the US at least) are facts like water freezes at 0 c or the sun rises in the east. Taking judicial notice of anything written in an official government report, especially when the only governments asked to submit reports are allies or puppets of the victors is what makes Nuremberg a complete waste of time. (Although not being bound by technical rules of evidence contributes to the worthlessness of any "findings" of the tribunal)

[smellwig]

Taking judicial notice of any official government report means that if the British submit a report that says that "Colonol Klink tortured 87 orphans" then Klink tortured 87 orphans is a fact on par with the fact that "fire is hot" Even if Eleanor Roosevelt is in the courtroom and testifies that Klink was dining with FDR the night the orphans were tortured, nothing will change the "fact." Any moron can see that Sophie Scholl had a fairer trial.

[sobe104839]

One problem for deniers regarding Nuremberg is the fact that in the indictment of Nuremberg, the Germans were accused of Katyn, and this was not in the judgement.

"The International Military Tribunal did not consider the crimes for which the defendants were standing trial to be "facts of common knowledge", as Graf would have it, but reached its findings of fact about these crimes like any tribunal or jury at any common criminal trial, by assessment of evidence presented before the tribunal."

[octo333]

Dear smell (I remain undebunked) wig: why don't you put your money where your mouth is and give us actual examples instead of this "colonel klink" stuff. Tell us about Olhendorf, Kramer, Hoess, Kaindl and may others who not only described the process of killing but stood by their actions (or they were following orders). Please prove their own testimonies were lies.

[sobe104839]

None of the Ukrainians or Germans who served in the Reinhard extermination camps denied the exterminations. I leave it as an exercise to the reader if saying "they were all tortured or coerced" is a reasonable response to this.

[sobe104839]

All they will do is link to denier articles were the witnesses are "proven" to have lied. I'd like to see Hans Muench debunked. He gave his testimony voluntarily on Swedish television, against the will of his family.

[smellwig]

The problem with Nuremburg isn't hearsay and cross-examination. The problem is that Nuremburg was pure vengeance in the guise of a fair trial. We now have 'evidence' discovered through 'unbiased' testimony that historians use today to try to understand WWII when in fact there is nothing to be learned from the 218 days trial except perhaps an understanding of ourcapacity for self delusion. We should've just shot the Nazis big wigs as we found them. At least it would have been honest.

[smellwig]

German cattle need air as much as American cattle so cattle cars in both countries would allow for it. You don't debunk Bud by 'proving' people can suffocate in one. They can't. Where Bud is wrong is by making a big deal out of this. If someone died in a packed cattle car, an eyewitness could say "suffocation" (impossible) when it was heat stroke (very possible) or something else entirely. It doesn't mean they're lying. I just means they're not a doctor.

[sobe104839]

Sure, but maybe German cattle cars are smaller than American cattle cars. Of course, you completely ignored my other notion which is that the victims, having no space to move, would block a lot of the air apetures. You don't debunk me by 'proving' that suffocation in a <b>crammed</b> German cattle car is impossible or by ignoring another comment.

[smellwig]

People's heads are narrower than their bodies. Even if theyre packed so tight they cant turn around there will be space between their heads. There will also be space between their legs near the bottom. Cattle cars have breathing slats from top to bottom. Even a child wedged between three fat people will not suffocate in a cattle car unless the whole cattle car is put inside an air tight container.

[sobe104839]

The suffocation did not have to be immediate, btw. Sure, there was always oxygen in the cattle car--what I argue is that there probably wasn't enough oxygen to sustain life for over <b>one day</b> (transports were usually kept outside the camp waiting until there was room for them), especially with the heat of the air and the dehydration as contributing factors to the death of the victims. But you do point out the possibility that death was due to a combination of factors.

[alanheath]

Transports in August - September 1942 could stand outside Treblinka for a week.

Nearly all witnesses mention the victims begging for water.

Contrary to popular belief, Poland is very hot in the summer, 35C is usual.

[alanheath]

Jews dying in goods wagons in 1942 is not a unique event. A large amount of Londoners died in 1943 of suffocation because of a panic caused by a (false) air raid siren. In Afghanistan in 1982 there was a similar accident.

(Unless of course the deniers are going to claim that that could not have happened either.)

[smellwig]

You don't debunk denierbud by claiming that people can suffocate in cattle cars. You debunk him by saying that without an autopsy no eyewitness can say how another transportee died and that just because an eyewitness says someone suffocated doesn't mean his entire testimony is impeached. But if you insist on saying DenierBud is wrong because people can suffocate in cattle cars, then DenierBud wins again. All hail the killer Bud!!

[smellwig]

We can argue about German vs American cattle cars or their size, etc. until the cows come home and get nowhere. Yad Veshem has a cattle car exhibited. I have to believe that is an official pro-Holocauster Yad Vashem certified cattle car of death, i.e., that this is what a cattle car used to transport Jews looked like. You can see the breathing slats in it so you can see that nobody suffocated in one. Heat stroke? Yes. Pressed like British football fans? Yes. Suffocated? No.

[sobe104839]

Nobody has anybody by the balls. People are free to believe what they want to believe. As anyone who has watched my clips knows, I don't fling incentive at my opponents or call them monsters for calling survivors liars. I simply look at their claims, show my perspective, in order to help folks make up their mind. Now, unless you see something wrong in my clip no. 5, please leave this thread. Thank you.

[sobe104839]

Really? Please show me were denierbud disproved the claims contained in my clip no. 5. He doesn't seem to have done so. I pointed out the obvious errors in his clip no. 5, and yet you, like the true believer you are, state that my clip is easily debunked, yet you can't point out anything wrong. With all due respect, your comments are very telling.

[bega0002]

On clip number 5, you state that the defendents chose to cross examine on numnerous occasions. But Dbub refers to babies and children burning alive.

[sobe104839]

No, that was a seperate topic. Listen again.

[diegogonzalezal]

The fact that someone tries to deny the holocaust is beyond me, how can anyone dare to pass judgement on the terrible events that took place in the german death camps. To do so reveals a total lack of compasion and respect for human suffering.

[sobe104839]

The reason that most people end up being a "revisionist" true believer is due to their ignorance of the Holocaust. Everybody shiuld read come respected books on the Final Solution before making up their minds. Or anyone can send me a message so I can help them.

[sobe104839]

If my videos are so easy to debunk by average people, I urge you to point out the errors. So far all you have been able to say is "that's not a debunking", hardly an argument. Let's start with Nuremberg, since I don't like off topic posts. Debunk this clip and you will be taken seriously.