Mid Side Mastering with the Fairchild 670 Compressor

[hollowtin]

why are music engineers so ponsy theese days!!! just because they can be!! or is it down to musical snobberey!!! i would like to know. me myself i love recording in mono with a good notch of compression for good old fashion do what you think is right for the track and not follow trends. i think now their is so much possible with digital recording that people have lost the real sound of an insrument recording in analog.

[zapzzapzzapz]

Yeh nice job!! IT'S IN MONO!!! Mid/Side tutorial in mono is quite useless..

Thanks though. :P ;)

[jackymurda]

@zapzzapzzapz maybe you should actually listen . you cant hear a guitar part stronger in one speaker whilst the main track energy stays centered in the middle??

[definty]

your all just a bunch of idiots

[ERICINMYPOCKET]

the link is broke over there

[Oneness100]

I just think any studio that has a million dollar console and uses NS-10's should be committed to a mental ward. It's like putting re-treads on a Bugatti Veyron. Most of the pop music to me is, well, glorified demo music that people pay for.

Just my two cents.

[zapzzapzzapz]

How do one go about commiting a studio to a mental institution? :P

[Oneness100]

I am talking in a sarcastic manner for laughs..... Think about it. A million dollar console and a cheap pair of speakers??? The system is only as good as the weakest link........

Everyone that works in a studio should know that.

[Oneness100]

Have you checked out the Fractal Audio Axe-FX for guitar amp/cab/processing? I've heard it is WAY better than all of the other guitar processing out there. I've heard It is actually more realistic with more control and dynamics.

[searchlight31]

Yes my friend, you have heard correctly.

[Oneness100]

I read that BOSE used to make demo CDs to make music made to sound better on a BOSE system than on a non-BOSE system. Same idea. If you can get the music to sound good on a high end system that has no coloration, then it will sound as good as the system that is being used to play back. I think the music industry to change their philosophy and start spitting out better quality recordings that audiophiles will enjoy. A system is only as good as the weakest link.

[odakueffect]

They make it sound that way so it sounds "good ?" on the shitty MP3 players. I for one rarely buy CD these days because when I run it through good system it mostly sounds like a wall of noise flattened agaist a brick wall.

[robertseagrove1]

Nice demo buuttttt, it would be nice to see you guys fix up something that we are all familiar with like perhaps something by the Eagles. As we know well too, the audio here doesn't lend itself to accuracy either all thing considered we do the best we can. How about a demo between the real beast itself and the plug with maybe Hotel California ?

Cheers,

Robert Seagrove

[bentsimon]

Get a liquid mix!!!!!!

[frottery]

???

How can software "surpass" hardware that it's trying to emulate? It either sounds exactly like the hardware or it doesn't. People use the Waves and Neve channel plugs to obtain a certain sound, not because of fidelity or clarity.

If what you were saying made any sense, you'd be claiming that guitar amp plugins sound better than guitar amps... oooook.

[Oneness100]

One thing that bugs me about most recording studio environments, both commercial and private home studios, is that some of the most widely used monitors are pieces of crap. Yamaha NS-10s, most notably. Those speakers are just awful. If the monitoring system is crap, then the listener isn't going to hear subtle differences in any outboard gear, microphones, cables, software, etc. Personally, I wish people would use monitors from the Audiophile world like some studios use,

[FenderRhodes2]

Some great speakers to check out are the Meridian DSP 3100's. I think more studios should be using these things.  They are wonderful speakers.

[checkabreak]

personally i wish for world peace first there sir ... respectfully of course, cause i know how everybody it's a moronic asshole in this very pages making statement of this nature :)

[Oneness100]

Huh?  Can you restate your comment checkabreak? I don't feel that it is clearly written. Thanks

[tombobzine]

Everyone knows NS-10s sound bad, but they're widely regarded and proven to be the best to balance audio on. If you can make your mix sound good on them, they sound good anywhere. Also the best for figuring reverb times.

[Oneness100]

I think that is a fallacy. If you talk to audiophiles, they'll laugh at you. If you go to the top mastering studios, they use audiophile speaker systems to perform mastering. If you go to any studio that does classical recordings, they use audiophile grade speaker systems. I think NS-10's got popular, just like auratones did as a way to make pop music made to sound good on an average POS stereo, but when you listen on an audiophile system, you hear a good/bad the recording really is.

[tombobzine]

Yeah, but like I said, they're well regarded for BALANCING, which is why a mastering studio would never use them. Audiophile seems to be a word for someone who loves good audio (and props to them) but perhaps isn't actually involved in industry work (they tend to prefer the name engineer if they do). You make one fair points, they sound terrible, but in every high end studio I've been to, there's the NS-10s right there.

[Oneness100]

I know lots of expensive studios use them, because the pop world is tailoring their product to the average consumer which owns a crappy stereo system and they are tailoring the music to sound good on a crappy stereo.

Like I said before, classical recordings and a lot of jazz recordings are made for people that are more purists and will spend more money on a higher quality stereo because they want to hear more REAL content.. For classical music recordings, they don't use NS-10's.

[musichopper]

woah... woah there.....cant get more pure than a cardboard whoofer.. seriously though... most people disco curve the fuck out of their stereo eq.. or do some random crap.. so referencing on a speaker that produces mostly mid range sound is a good way to ensure a stable mix under most circumstances... Then reference on other speakers. I used to completely filter out the highs and lows and work the mix as if I had to make it sound great in only that mid range. "REAL" content? lol

[Oneness100]

What do you mean "balancing"? Mic levels? Eq levels? Stereo imaging?

Just to let you know, the bigger studios I've been used Tannoys and not NS-10's. Project studios I've been in were using KRKs, or Events, or Mackies or some other average mini monitor.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

For mixdown you need a direct replication of the audio going in. You need to hear everything exactly how it is, then reference them on perhaps a pair of hi-fi speakers. Which is where the NS-10s have always fitted in. Its a little bit futile to argue their use when they have been the standard for over two decades of successful chart music.

A studio that wishes to cater for high end audio, will use high end speakers for reference. It depends on the intention of the album/track.

[Oneness100]

I think tracking. mixing and mastering all deserve to have a direct replication of the audio that is going on, otherwise you are going to make changes based on the percepeption of what the cheap speakers lack or overcompensate.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

Its also a financial decision. Do you spend time trying to make a mix fit both reference speakers, perhaps compromising on some commercial dynamic qualities, or go straight for the commercial kill. If you have material of high quality with 'classic potential', then its more than likely worth the time to get the mix to sound good on as many monitors as poss.

Theres nothing wrong with NS10s, the formula works. The mid freqs are the bulk of any mix.

[Oneness100]

I don't think NS-10s work that well. they sound like crap to me. Real phony sounding.  Once you get used to audiophile grade speakers, anything else sucks.

[djwondermike]

When your mix doesn´t sound like crap over the NS10, it´s a good mix

[Oneness100]

Actually, that's a misleading statement. If you mix sounds good on a playback system that you are familiar with, then it is a good mix on that system to that person. do an experiment. Do two mixes. One on a Reference Quality system and a pair of NS-10s. Then give the two mixes to leading experts that are qualified and trained in listening to music through Reference Quality systems and ask them for their opinion. Make sure it is a double blind test.

[djwondermike]

One on a Reference Quality system?

That´s the NS10, not Genelec and other "loudness" crap. NS10 sound weird on the first impression, but within one week of working with them, you don´t want to miss them (for low & mid volume speakers)

[Oneness100]

A Reference Quality system is usually considered to be an Audiophile grade system. Those are the most cricial ears in the world. Some examples of Reference Quality systems can be found by looking at Stereophile Magazine's A rated systems. Meridian, B&W 800 series, Wilson Audio are generally considered Reference Quality, there are plenty of others to consider, but a Reference System has to have a completely dead cabinet, perfect crossover with no phase problems, matched amps, pre amps, cables.

[Oneness100]

Take your NS-10's into a Meridian dealer and listen to the DSP3100's and compare them. You can crank the DSP3100 to full volume and they completely colorless at all volume levels as the pre amp is digital, the crossover is digital, the cabinet is specially made to be completely dead and the Class A power is perfectly matched to each driver. These have been considered to be probably amongst the most accurate mini-monitors, they just aren't marketed to the recording industry.

[Oneness100]

In Europe, the B&W 800 series are considered to be the reference monitor systems that have been used for decades as the Reference system that widely used for classical music for which they use pretty much no eq, no signal processing, no compression, no limiting, etc., etc. and they used high quality room mikes, etc and they want exact replication of a live classical performance from the best seat in the house.

[m0j0b0ne]

I think an audio engineer is much better equipped to determine the point of diminishing returns in any given audio gear purchasing scenario, than the typical cork-sniffing audiophile. Pop mixes don't sound bad because they're optimized for playback on every kind of system, when they sound bad, it's usually because of too much bus compression-a misguided attempt to sound louder than everything else.

[Oneness100]

First off, not all audiophiles drink or sniff corks. Secondly, audiophile systems are usually of incredibly expensive components, which most commercial grade equipment doesn't use. The quality of resistors, capacitors, etc., can GREATLY change the signal path. Plus, audiophiles are used to comparing live instruments to recorded instruments without the use of eq, compression, limiting, expansion, gating, etc. They want as close to exact reproduction as possible.

[djwondermike]

If you go through the magazines for audiophiles, you´ll notice that they make different recommendations, depending on the kind of music that you are listening, so to serve all you would need more than one pair of audiophile speakers.

I guess you are missing the point here: A good mix has to sound good on an AVERAGE speaker system, from kitchen radios over am tuner car systems to 100 dollar Kenwood speakers.

Nobody makes hits for audiophiles.

[Oneness100]

I've gone through various magazines for audiophiles. If you do more homework and actually LISTEN to various systems, some are designed for accuracy, some are designed for Home Theater appications for a variety of types of rooms, but ultimately I haven't heard ANY system that does both audio/video content with the same level as Meridian. They do things differently. Most audiophiles donn't like listening to most pop, because their mixes SUCK because they are created for the audiophile crowd.

[Oneness100]

Oops. Correction.

Most pop music ISN'T created for the audiophile crowd and that's why their mixes suck when listened to on an Audiophile Reference system.

Personally, I wouldn't use anything but Meridian for tracking, mixing, mastering, home audio/video. PERIOD. I just think it's the safest way to go. They have transparency, detail, no distortion, etc., etc. and they are consistent from the small speakers to the largest models so they are VERY consistent uncolored sound without harshness.

[djwondermike]

Yeah, I had a directcut record once from Charlie Antolini (Knock out), listened to it on my Transrotor turntable with Dynavector arm and the Karat moving coil pickup and Dickler prepre/pre-amp. Gladly this time of moneywaist is over ! B. Regards

[Oneness100]

Well, I would expect a childish response from someone that doesn't have a clue as to what a REAL Reference Monitor system is.

NS-10's are the biggest joke in the music industry, as many as they sold, they are still just cheap speakers for which people use to mix on since their music is mostly going to be played by people that have trained their ears by listening to properly recorded/mastered content on a Reference Quality Audiophile equipment regardless if it is a digital or analog source.

[Oneness100]

I don't want to be condesending, but you don't sound like you have spent a lot of time reading and listening to various audiohile systems, read as much as I have, or have talked to various people in the industry. It's been a hobby of mine for almost 20 years and I have heard lots of different systems and have settled on Meridian and my taste in music is everything from classical, world beat, jazz, fusion, pop, even some dance music as well as video content and I can hear bad mixes instantly.

[thisisfuckinglame]

@Oneness100 and since those are the ones you've settled on that must mean they're the best and it's amazing that not everyone has come to the same conclusion. Reference speakers are just what the name implies. They're a reference for you and your ears. I've known lots of engineers that use NS-10's. Not because they're so awesome, but because they know and understand how they represent the sound they're listening to. Audiophiles suffer from cranial rectumitis. Seriously.

[Oneness100]

To thisisfuckinglame:

First your name impies you are not a reliable source of information. Secondly, I said that whatever is used as a "reference" is from the listener's perspective. Thirdly, from the Audiophile community, which scrutenizes audio/video recordings more so than any other group of individuals, that they feel that the NS-10's are just junk and that they just represent mediocre speakers. If you want to use mediocre speakers, then use mediocre speakers, etc.

[Oneness100]

to thisisfuckinglame:

Yes, I have heard Meridian technology and feel that they are some of the most accurate audio speakers, although there are others, but I like the Merdian's better as well as many audiophile reviews have said the same thing. Why would I listen to what a recording engineer that engineers bad mixes that are tailored to the pop market? most pop recordings have too much signal processing/compression, etc., because they tailor their mixes for bad speakers, car audio, boomboxes.

[Oneness100]

NS-10s have just been MADE popular as a Reference, but that's just because they just represent an average speaker system and that's the only reason why they are used and marketed and considered a Reference. It is a Reference for an average speaker system and that's all they are.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

Most hi-fi speakers in this price range normally colour the sound in some way. Its not always worth spending the thousands to obtain a flat high end hi-fi monitor, when you can get the mix done on a 'cheap' pair of NS10s.

For mastering i have no real idea.

[Oneness100]

If the tracking/mixing/mastering are all done on an audiophile grade speaker system that doesn't color the sound, then the engineer will be able to better pick the mics, processing, placement, eq, etc.,and it will be consistent throughout the chain and the end result is of more reference quality that an audiophile will appreciate rather than people that only know what a cheap pair of speakers sounds like. The way most studios do it, it is like cheap tires on a racing car. Doesn't make sense.

[Oneness100]

If the content is crappy content to begin with, then I guess it doesn't matter what speakers you use. You can use KRK, NS-10's, pretty much anything, because it is crappy content to begin with... :-)

But if you want to listen to what is REALLY going on, then you must use a colorless speaker system to actually HEAR what is REALLY going on, otherwise you are always mixing with colored sound.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

Yes i agree with most of the points you make.

The only issue i can see is the inability for average home hi-fis to reproduce all the brilliances of a mix only made on high end systems. It may even end up lacking in some areas, whereas using a NS10 or the like will give you the opportunity to really hit home.

If i had it my way, we'd all have high end systems and bath in an orgy of audio excellence, but im stuck with these NS10s (or Yorkville YSM1s actually) as my reference point.

[Oneness100]

The point i am trying to make is that when I listen to a recording that has a bad mix or mastering on a reference quality system, you really hear it. I am just wondering if people would just make the content sound great on a reference quality system so that those that have spent the time and money can actually listen to great mixes rather than those done on less than stellar systems. I have plenty of recordings that people think are great, but when listened on a ref. sys, they sound like S$%T.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

Yes i understand your point. But its not a viable option, since it takes time and money to achieve.

Unfortunately your pretty much limited to genre.

Probably only 10% or less of modern commercial music is going to be an album or track of noteworthy recording.

But if we step into the Jazz and Classical realm, your sure to find cds/vinyl more viable on a high end system.

We just have to keep an ear out for good bands or artists who like to make good recordings.

[DonJuanDeMarco2]

Then there is the whole loudness war problem aswell..

[robdrums69]

The UAD software - is EXPENSIVE - so if they weren't as top quality as hardware, they'd sell them for $5.00, so don't under estimate the quality you can produce using these plugins.

Rob

My two cents..

[frottery]

the only way they get away with charging as much as they do for these plugins is that you'll never be able to afford the real hardware. People haven't had access to these plugins because you need the PCI card to use it. They claim it's for "processor" but all it is is a dongle. Modern processors can easily handle whatever a plugin throws at it... saying it must be good because it is expensive is a joke.

[CountFunkenstein]

Most people that knock these plug in programs have worse gear and no success under their belts. Bottom line: If it works, sounds good, and produces the effect, use it. Besides, any serious audiophile understands that a demonstration of a high end piece of gear on You Tube is like watching a commercial for Hi-Def TV on an old black and white set.

[frottery]

If you think a $400 plugin version of a $20-30k set of hardware is anywhere near the same quality, you're delusional.

Sitting at these plugins versus many other, even free, plugins you will hardly tell a difference.

[lewisldurham]

If you want to get a fairchild sound, you need to use a fairchild my friend, not a computer. Don't say they sound the same because they don't.

[avillarreal]

If you don't want to sell your house over a compressor ($30,000... WTF?), and have a simulation that's 1/20of it's real price... well...

[astronmr20]

We all know this is not a real fairchild. If it sounds good and helps your mix, and works for you in your budget, then use it.

[robdrums69]

There have been top quality studio engineers say ON VIDEO - that they can't tell the difference between the hardware and a VST plugin. For instance - SSL4000 - so, NEVER SAY - it can't sound as good, cause you'd be talking out your , you know what lol

Rob

[frottery]

They also say ON VIDEO - that they can't tell the difference between this VST plugin and other VST plugins that are free.

Imagine that.

[fojeba]

i've downloaded this product expecting to try it first ,the system is asking me to install the hardware.What should i do?

[ukent07]

The software wont run without the hardware....Do you have the DSP card?

[fojeba]

I don't have that card ,i tought i would walk like a simple rtas plug in

[ukent07]

No, you can only use it if your have the hardware. The DSP card acts like a dongle and is also run off the cards processor

[spacemanvector32]

The card is where they get you pal...wish it were just a plug in, but then it probably would not sound as good or chew up your processor to the point of no go.

[Rmartin38]

this product is very expensive but it will do the job. i will i could afford these. these plug ins require a processing card they sell for $399. You will make the best sounds in the world but you need the budjet.

Universal audio

[fakiekid]

Surly youtubes coding makes it mono. how can we listen to these properly :S

[wakko1999]

I hear a very very very subtle change, but I had to listen extremely close and focus on what I was supposed to hear. It is extremely subtle...

[guitarguy10000]

Youtube encodes to Mono.

[Sweetassour]

Well, I'd be lying if I said I can hear a difference.

[shhhakedown1979]

You're right, this is in mono, and it's hard to hear. In the info section there's a link for much better, stereo audio. I'm no pro, but I can hear the difference, especially with the backing vocals.

[ronniewibbley]

Excellent.

[recordbetteraudio]

Really good video, Thanks for taking the time to make it.