"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
The text is about self righteousness, Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his (own) righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered. It is possible to fall away from the faith, but not possible if you are choosen by the Father before the foundations of the world. Arminians and calvinists both agree that those living according to the flesh will perish, we simply believe Christ doesnt fail to keep those the father gave him
First, I just want to thank you for making the careful distinction between "once saved, always saved" and "perseverance of the saints". You've obviously done your homework!
Second, as a friendly critique, make sure you're careful to apply that same careful distinction when affirming your position over "perseverance of the saints". In 2:57 - 3:06 you didn't affirm your position over "perseverance of the saints", but over "once saved, always saved" (as your description suggests).
"When a strong man armed keeps his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divides his spoils."
Blessed violent intrusion.
I was on the road to Hell, and left to myself without God's prevenient grace and His almighty work of regeneration, I would fall headlong into eternal Hell.
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35).
15 x's in 8 verses in Ez 36 it declares the power of GOD'S WILL in the work of regeneration. You will be hard-pressed to find any mention of man resisting His almighty grace.
Now here is something about christianity that bothers me. You talk about "eternal life with god" like it is something positive. To an unbeliever like me, it sounds like an eternal prison, with an omniscient judge who decides everything you do, along with everything around you.
What makes it even worse is that life on earth is seen as a stairway to that prison, the more pious you are, the greater the chance of being with the omniscient god. THAT, instead of living your life to the fullest...
@Nidair Wow! Not only have you misunderstood the Gospel of Grace, but you assume that being with God for eternity would be a prison to believers. I can see that being the case for unbelievers since the unregenerate heart is hostile towards God (Romans 8:7), but not the regenerate heart.
@prettylola1 I have no interest in the Gospel, only for what it does to people. If you have to live according to a set of rules from the dark ages because a hymn of praise promises you that there is a paradise after this life, it limits you from living your life to the fullest.
But what do you mean by "unregenerate heart"? As far as I know, there is only 1 heart in the human body, and that heart has nothing to do with faith or piety, which are only a product of the brain.
@Nidair "I have no interest in the Gospel, only for what it does to people. If you have to live according to a set of rules from the dark ages because a hymn of praise promises you that there is a paradise after this life, it limits you from living your life to the fullest."
What rules are you talking about? Christian beliefs go well beyond the Dark Ages, so I hope you don't think they originated there. That's ludicrous.
@skoobalon How can your god be just when he condones slavery? When he thinks homosexuals are abominations? When he decides who will receive eternal punishment not by their deeds or their benevolence, but by their faith? Either he is not just, or he is not god.
It does not matter if the hymn of the subject of it promises eternal paradise, the result is the same: people are kept from living their life to the fullest because of faith. A faith governed through fear of eternal damnation.
And is the kingdom of god (what you might refer to as heaven) not a metaphor for inner peace? I think that is what Jesus himself said. Because while I do not like christianity, I do like him. He talked about the paradise within, power through peace, and the internal judge.
It is just a pity that his many metaphors were misunderstood, and over the years his words were interpreted as the paradise within faith, peace through power, and the eternal judge.
@Nidair when did Jesus say - Paradise 'within'. I dont recall that he said within, seems like something has been added! Peace from God, before we have Christ as our Saviour we are object of wrath because of our sin. Only through Jesus can God be at peace with us because he poored out his wrath against sin on his very own son Jesus on the cross of Calvery...
@PreOAP I do not have an english bible (I am dutch, bear with me :P) but the Jesus character repeatedly says the kingdom of god cannot be seen - awkwardly strange for a place where spirits of the deceased go - and that it is very near to those who cast out the devil and submit themselves to his god, thus near to living individuals.
From this, I have no doubt that the kingdom of god is a metaphor for a state of ultimate peace of mind and heart.
(In reference to Hebrews 6)1 Jn 2:19- They were never "true" believers in the first place. Enlightenment and regeneration are two separate things. It is noteworthy that the author of Hebrews does not refer to these apostatizers as “us” or even as “you,” but as “those.” Note also that as soon as the section dealing with these apostatizers ends, the writer sets up a contrast between the real and the counterfeit: “But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, things that accompany
@prettylola1 According to John Calvin himself, mankind is so depraved that he can only come to believe the gospel message when God opens his eyes to believe it. Now, according to that, if they have been enlightened to the Gospel (Greek for enlightened is photizo, which means to open one's eyes or make one see), and God has opened their eyes, God has chosen them to be saved. Now Hebrews 6 goes on to say that it is possible for these people to fall away; which goes against what Calvin taught.
@thebenjohnson Where do you get your Greek from? Photizo (Strong's # 5461) means: I light up, illumine, I bring to light, make evident, or reveal. Phos means to make see (Strong's # 5457). But Phos is not the word used here is it? Photizo is. "According to John Calvin himself, mankind is so depraved that he can only come to believe the gospel message when God opens his eyes to believe it." No my friend, this is according to the Bible, not Calvin. BTW, Augustine taught total depravity before
@thebenjohnson (cont) Calvin did. And the Apostles taught it before Augustine. There is nothing in Hebrews 6 to suggest that these apostates had "true" faith. They just had a head-knowledge about Christ, but not a renewed spirit that leads to faith in Christ.
Here's a question that you can answer in front of a camera -- If a genuine Christian can lose his salvation, then what must he do to keep it? Come up with a few efforts/works that man must do to maintain a saving relationship with God. Next, explain to us how this is not works righteousness. Then, deal with 1John 2:19 that teaches that those who "fell away" never were saved to begin with. Finally, explain how God cannot finish a perfect work that He began (see Phil. 1:6).
@zkueker88 We are only saved by the grace of God, through our faith (Ephesians 2:8). Only by God's grace can we come to him, and only by God's grace can we remain in the state of salvation. Without his grace we would never come to him, nor could we live a holy life after salvation. But we know that man has the choice to resist grace, and to resist the holy spirit, just as they did in Acts 7:51! This grace that God gives us, both at conversion and throughout the process of sanctification,
@zkueker88 (cont.) is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8). A gift is never forced upon a person, but it is something offered to a person, with the choice to accept it. God does not force people to accept him, but gives us the opportunity to accept him. This opportunity he gives such an unworthy people truly is grace. And beyond this he is drawing all men unto himself (John 12:32).
I joy in the fact that God forced me to come to Him.
"A gift is never forced"
"it is something offered"
"the choice to accept"
"[God} gives us the opportunity"
Your words declare that you serve a weak god.
Salvation is a righteous declaration of Christ's finished work, not an offer to sovereign sinners who have it within their power to chose Him or reject Him.
We can only lose our salvation if we initiated it to begin with.
The thing is, we didn't initiate it . . .
John 1:12-13
"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."
Also see Phil. 1:6
Bill244888 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from thebenjohnson
The text is about self righteousness, Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his (own) righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered. It is possible to fall away from the faith, but not possible if you are choosen by the Father before the foundations of the world. Arminians and calvinists both agree that those living according to the flesh will perish, we simply believe Christ doesnt fail to keep those the father gave him
MrUltratruth 1 month ago
Dear Ben,
First, I just want to thank you for making the careful distinction between "once saved, always saved" and "perseverance of the saints". You've obviously done your homework!
Second, as a friendly critique, make sure you're careful to apply that same careful distinction when affirming your position over "perseverance of the saints". In 2:57 - 3:06 you didn't affirm your position over "perseverance of the saints", but over "once saved, always saved" (as your description suggests).
seanhflowers 7 months ago
"When a strong man armed keeps his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted, and divides his spoils."
Blessed violent intrusion.
I was on the road to Hell, and left to myself without God's prevenient grace and His almighty work of regeneration, I would fall headlong into eternal Hell.
skoobalon 8 months ago
...who hath resisted His will? (Rom 9:19).
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? (Dan 4:35).
15 x's in 8 verses in Ez 36 it declares the power of GOD'S WILL in the work of regeneration. You will be hard-pressed to find any mention of man resisting His almighty grace.
Now, what exactly can man do?
skoobalon 8 months ago
Now here is something about christianity that bothers me. You talk about "eternal life with god" like it is something positive. To an unbeliever like me, it sounds like an eternal prison, with an omniscient judge who decides everything you do, along with everything around you.
What makes it even worse is that life on earth is seen as a stairway to that prison, the more pious you are, the greater the chance of being with the omniscient god. THAT, instead of living your life to the fullest...
Nidair 8 months ago
@Nidair Wow! Not only have you misunderstood the Gospel of Grace, but you assume that being with God for eternity would be a prison to believers. I can see that being the case for unbelievers since the unregenerate heart is hostile towards God (Romans 8:7), but not the regenerate heart.
prettylola1 8 months ago
@prettylola1 I have no interest in the Gospel, only for what it does to people. If you have to live according to a set of rules from the dark ages because a hymn of praise promises you that there is a paradise after this life, it limits you from living your life to the fullest.
But what do you mean by "unregenerate heart"? As far as I know, there is only 1 heart in the human body, and that heart has nothing to do with faith or piety, which are only a product of the brain.
Nidair 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Nidair "I have no interest in the Gospel, only for what it does to people. If you have to live according to a set of rules from the dark ages because a hymn of praise promises you that there is a paradise after this life, it limits you from living your life to the fullest."
What rules are you talking about? Christian beliefs go well beyond the Dark Ages, so I hope you don't think they originated there. That's ludicrous.
prettylola1 8 months ago
@Nidair
You say, "I have no interest in the Gospel, only for what it does to people."
God is both just and justifier, ...that he might be just, and the justifier of HIM (Rom 3:26).
...who of God is made unto US... (1Co 1:30).
To be free from the guilt of sin is liberty; it's not a life of bondage to a set of rules, as you put it.
A hymn doesn't promise paradise after this life, God does.
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luk 23:43).
He who finds his life will lose it.
skoobalon 8 months ago
@skoobalon How can your god be just when he condones slavery? When he thinks homosexuals are abominations? When he decides who will receive eternal punishment not by their deeds or their benevolence, but by their faith? Either he is not just, or he is not god.
It does not matter if the hymn of the subject of it promises eternal paradise, the result is the same: people are kept from living their life to the fullest because of faith. A faith governed through fear of eternal damnation.
Nidair 8 months ago
@Nidair Hello there, my friend!
Are you an athiest, muslim, hindu, or something else altogether?
Its really hard to argue with that kind of reasoning. Nobody can be argued into the Kingdom of God.
Have a great day.
skoobalon 8 months ago
@skoobalon I am an atheist.
And is the kingdom of god (what you might refer to as heaven) not a metaphor for inner peace? I think that is what Jesus himself said. Because while I do not like christianity, I do like him. He talked about the paradise within, power through peace, and the internal judge.
It is just a pity that his many metaphors were misunderstood, and over the years his words were interpreted as the paradise within faith, peace through power, and the eternal judge.
Nidair 8 months ago
@Nidair
I appreciate your honesty.
Have a good day.
skoobalon 8 months ago
@Nidair when did Jesus say - Paradise 'within'. I dont recall that he said within, seems like something has been added! Peace from God, before we have Christ as our Saviour we are object of wrath because of our sin. Only through Jesus can God be at peace with us because he poored out his wrath against sin on his very own son Jesus on the cross of Calvery...
PreOAP 8 months ago
@PreOAP I do not have an english bible (I am dutch, bear with me :P) but the Jesus character repeatedly says the kingdom of god cannot be seen - awkwardly strange for a place where spirits of the deceased go - and that it is very near to those who cast out the devil and submit themselves to his god, thus near to living individuals.
From this, I have no doubt that the kingdom of god is a metaphor for a state of ultimate peace of mind and heart.
Nidair 8 months ago
(In reference to Hebrews 6)1 Jn 2:19- They were never "true" believers in the first place. Enlightenment and regeneration are two separate things. It is noteworthy that the author of Hebrews does not refer to these apostatizers as “us” or even as “you,” but as “those.” Note also that as soon as the section dealing with these apostatizers ends, the writer sets up a contrast between the real and the counterfeit: “But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, things that accompany
prettylola1 8 months ago
@prettylola1 (cont) salvation" (v. 9)
prettylola1 8 months ago
@prettylola1 According to John Calvin himself, mankind is so depraved that he can only come to believe the gospel message when God opens his eyes to believe it. Now, according to that, if they have been enlightened to the Gospel (Greek for enlightened is photizo, which means to open one's eyes or make one see), and God has opened their eyes, God has chosen them to be saved. Now Hebrews 6 goes on to say that it is possible for these people to fall away; which goes against what Calvin taught.
thebenjohnson 8 months ago
@thebenjohnson Where do you get your Greek from? Photizo (Strong's # 5461) means: I light up, illumine, I bring to light, make evident, or reveal. Phos means to make see (Strong's # 5457). But Phos is not the word used here is it? Photizo is. "According to John Calvin himself, mankind is so depraved that he can only come to believe the gospel message when God opens his eyes to believe it." No my friend, this is according to the Bible, not Calvin. BTW, Augustine taught total depravity before
prettylola1 8 months ago
@thebenjohnson (cont) Calvin did. And the Apostles taught it before Augustine. There is nothing in Hebrews 6 to suggest that these apostates had "true" faith. They just had a head-knowledge about Christ, but not a renewed spirit that leads to faith in Christ.
prettylola1 8 months ago
@thebenjohnson
Forget John Calvin!
Let's turn to the Scriptures, shall we?
skoobalon 8 months ago
Here's a question that you can answer in front of a camera -- If a genuine Christian can lose his salvation, then what must he do to keep it? Come up with a few efforts/works that man must do to maintain a saving relationship with God. Next, explain to us how this is not works righteousness. Then, deal with 1John 2:19 that teaches that those who "fell away" never were saved to begin with. Finally, explain how God cannot finish a perfect work that He began (see Phil. 1:6).
zkueker88 8 months ago
@zkueker88 We are only saved by the grace of God, through our faith (Ephesians 2:8). Only by God's grace can we come to him, and only by God's grace can we remain in the state of salvation. Without his grace we would never come to him, nor could we live a holy life after salvation. But we know that man has the choice to resist grace, and to resist the holy spirit, just as they did in Acts 7:51! This grace that God gives us, both at conversion and throughout the process of sanctification,
thebenjohnson 8 months ago
@zkueker88 (cont.) is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8). A gift is never forced upon a person, but it is something offered to a person, with the choice to accept it. God does not force people to accept him, but gives us the opportunity to accept him. This opportunity he gives such an unworthy people truly is grace. And beyond this he is drawing all men unto himself (John 12:32).
thebenjohnson 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thebenjohnson
i appreciate you responding, but you didn't answer my questions with nearly as much relevance as you could have.
zkueker88 8 months ago
@thebenjohnson "God does not force people to accept him, but gives us the opportunity to accept him."
Then please explain the conversion of Saul/Paul in Acts? Specifically, was he given a "free" choice in the matter?
prettylola1 8 months ago
@prettylola1
Amen!
skoobalon 8 months ago
@thebenjohnson
Oh, but God does graciously FORCE us to Himself.
...no man can come... (Joh 6:65).
I joy in the fact that God forced me to come to Him.
"A gift is never forced"
"it is something offered"
"the choice to accept"
"[God} gives us the opportunity"
Your words declare that you serve a weak god.
Salvation is a righteous declaration of Christ's finished work, not an offer to sovereign sinners who have it within their power to chose Him or reject Him.
skoobalon 8 months ago
@zkueker88 You comment on peoples videos and block comments on yours. Typical.
chilimaan 7 months ago