I think that these racial policies actually hurt middle class black kids and are a large part of the reason for the black-white gap in SAT scores. By lowering the numerical criteria for admission (almost .5 gpa and 200 points lower on the SAT according to a number of studies) AA kills the incentives among black and hispanic students to perform at the level of white/asian students and it kills the incentives for teachers in poor neighborhoods to coach them to that level.
I like who you speak about he points that black kids get .. how about the extra points that white students get . For example if you live in the right part of the state you get points spotted, if you take classes that are offered mostly in white areas you get points spotted .
@Joeybsmooth True, and both of those preferences are unfair and should end. The problem is that only a fraction of white students benefit from those preferences whereas all black students recieve affirmative action. Not to mention that racial preference (Tim wise even admits this in his speech) is the largest boost in points. Yes I agree though that geographic/legacy preferences should end as well.
@Joeybsmooth The phenomena you mentioned aren't racial, they're socio-economical. Compare a poor white boy living in Arkansas to a rich black teenager living in Malibu. Which student gets spotted? Which of the two areas have more so-called "AP" classes?
Do to years and years of a redlining , and housing discrimination it is far less likely for black people to be in those good parts of town. Unless you want to act like that did not happen . It is always funny how people act as if the past does not have a major effect on the here and now, that would be like suggesting that Paris Hilton would be as rich and famous today if your parents were not rich.
@Joeybsmooth Redlining is a practice used by banking firms as a cheap screening method to access risk of default. Obtaining information is really really expensive, and banking firms just add a premium, i.e. charging higher interest rates, to blacks and Latinos. In fact, Asians on average are charged lower interest rates than whites. Does that mean that banking firms discriminate against whites? No. The phenomenon of redlining is a result of culture and history and not of race as I will explain.
@Joeybsmooth The reason why banking firms add a premium if you're black or Latino is a history of default and irresponsibility by blacks and Latinos. Asians, on the other hand, have were generally more responsible in managing their incomes and not "buying Escalades using their house equity as collateral." To change discriminatory practices, one must change the culture and the perception of black American culture. Unfortunately, affirmative action programs do the exact opposite; they stigmatize.
@Joeybsmooth I forgot to mention the fact that redlining isn't "blatant discrimination" from white communities. It's just charging higher interest rates, often much higher (4%-5% on top of the base), to black and Latinos. What I do support are social programs that seek to change the culture of black America. A program like the Khomeini-era family planning initiative instituted by the Iranian government in the 1980s to reduce fertility rates would be a good option to consider.
@Joeybsmooth The Paris Hilton phenomenon is socio-economic. I can ask the same question. Would Jaden Smith, the son of Mr. Will Smith, be rich and famous today if his father were not rich? No, and it's funny because you don't take a look at the next question. Would a poor white farm boy in Arkansas be rich and famous today if his parents were not rich? No, and in 20 years, he would still be stuck on the farm. You need to remember that 70% of food stamp recipients are white...
@derivativesarecool By the way, don't be like other people and paint me as a "racist, bigot, or a member of the KKK" because of my First Amendment Right. That type of language, unfortunately commonplace in our colleges and universities, drowns out intellectual conversation.
You don't dismantle something that's dubious like Affirmative Action before you build something more appropriate because the underlying issue of inequality still exists.
@theChangaMusic Agreed, and if we were to remake Affirmative Action to adress purely socio-economic disparities it would be a vastly better system. Yes it would help some poor white kids but it would help a proportionally much larger number of black and hispanic students since minorities are disproportionately poorer. The current system is flawed. What kind of message are we sending a middle class black kid when we tell him that he needs 200 extra SAT pts to compete with whites?
@TBow009 How do we have diversity, I learn about white people from k-12. They celebrate christopher columbus day when a european took over latin america and killed all the native people. Pilgrims did the same thing, but they don't tell you the truth in schools. I live in a all black neighbor hood where everyone is either lower middle class, and poor. I don't even see whites unless they are commuting, they live in a all white neighbor where they are Higher middle class, and even rich.
@JayJ004 Did they teach you in school about how the native tribes used to murder each other in mass, commited genocide against each other. Or do they tell you about the African tribes who used to be at war with other tribes and hand over their captives to the Arab and European slave traders? They didn't tell you about African slavery of whites or white slavery of whites. The point is that the past bloody and they keep it PG as possible for k-12, it isn't some white vs black thing.
@EasyEs Exactly, by their logic we should also force Egyptians to give affirmative action to Jews or force the Algerians to give affirmative action to white Mediterranean people, or force the mongolians to give affirmative action to any ethnic chinese in their country or force turkey to give affirmative action to ethnic Ukrainians the list goes on...
Good point. It looks, to me, that Wise is committing a massive is-ought fallacy.
You're right to point out that the argument form doesn't carry. The ends (equality) are dubious at best, but they certainly do not justify the means (overt, outright racism)
@TBow009 But if you do that, how are you going to create diversity w/o affirmative action, you have to put in account of the legacy of black oppression that gave certain privileges to white people, that gave them the ability to achieve a certain amount of success, and the legacy that left their children. Jews are not extremist, what are these jews skin color. I said watch the documentary Bloods and Crips: Made in America
@TBow009 But you labeling all blacks because of these crimes, like whites are all godly because of the color of their skin. You a separatist or somethin? Whites are less likely to get convicted of crimes and don't go to prison. There has been 130 white terrorist since 1980, only 19 islamic terrorist that brought down towers. Nobody is looking for whites to strike again, wtf is reverse racism, that is someshyt that racist created. Look at the doc Bloods and crips:made in america
@TBow009 See that is what this institutionalized society created,the fear of blacks,that they are coming after you and your things...Wrong black kids are growing up uneducated and uninfluenced, but kids nowadays are living in the here and now,all races,care about money,popularity,machismo. I doubt in europe that blacks are doing that because there are alot of whites that are poor as well and live with the blacks.That is what Affirmative Action is for, affirming that blks get into jobs/schools
@TBow009 Close proximity? We live in segregated neighborhoods... I live in philadelphia where most whites I come across live in economic areas of philadelphia (not really considered phila) where the money flow is higher while blacks live in low class areas. It's like that for most of the neighborhoods in America.
@TBow009 I dont see your last comments but, alot of white people blame black ppl for their problems, economic problems, schooling problems, employment problems. Like oh ok, "segregation is over" so you have no more excuses. Then white ppl blame jews for all the things that a vast of majority of whites did to blacks and people of color in modern history. And then alot of them say it in a manner if they were persecuted throughout history too.
@JayJ004 "Segregation" had suppose been over only 35 yrs ago. My brother is older than that. My mom lived in the 60's, only 50 yrs ago when a white man spit on her. Most likely he is still living and spread his hate machine to his children.
@TBow009 I did not say that, but if their not white then what are they? Your Anti-sematic remarks are typical for a conservative american. Blaming jews and blacks/minorities for all the problems. Only 1% of the population controls 35% of Americas wealth. White people control this society too, they are the ones who own and run companies, corporations, the police department government, stocks. White people always want to wipe their hands clean with anti-sematic remarks.
@Royisinabox It IS punishing White males, Asians, and Middle Easterners. So what if AA helps white women? You seem to use bad behavior to justify other bad behavior, but I fail to see the logic. The truth is, as I have stated, that there is simply no justfication to use racist systems of advantage like AA. Students can and should be judged by their GPA, SAT scores, SAT II scores, AP placement tests, sporting activities, club involvement, imployment, and essays: Race should NOT be a factor.
@drj90210 Do you have stats on how this hurts white males? do you know that less qualified white students get admissions yearly at the expense of other highly qualified white students. test scores are just another measure they use to weigh candidacy.
@emptycell Stats? No. I have common sense. If a program gives a member of a certain race an unfair advantage, then logic dictates that members of other races must therefore be disadvantaged. I do know that less qualified whites are given unfair advantages as well. This is equally wrong. Using bad behavior to justify other bad behavior is not a good argument on your part. The fact is that affirmative action gives huge unfair advantages to certain "minorities" at the unjust expense of others
@drj90210 so every qualified white male who never got in could chunk it up to this "evil affirmative action" law right? test scores are just one way they use to measure applicants, other factors come into play such as extracurriculars, legacy babies, socio economic backgrounds etc. The law only helps out those who are EQUALLY QUALIFIED that would other wise be rejected. They do not just pick up some "minority" just for affirmative action sake.
@emptycell Yes. Qualified white males could logically use that defense. If AA did not exist, then this excuse would be invalid. Testing is indeed only one way to measure applicants: I've already mentioned other measures, such as extracurricular activity, GPA, volunteering, employment, sporting actvities, etc. Thus, with so many measure of apptitude, AA is unnecessary. Legacies are just another example of AA. AA does NOT only help equally qualified people (see the U. Michigan quota system)
@drj90210 So that qualified white male point the finger due to the action of affirmative action, so he points the finger "unqualified" black person, but refuses that usually there are probably more unqualified whites, that "took his job" because they new someone, or their parents?
@JayJ004 What? My position has been consistent and equal to that of Dr. MLK: People should be judged based upon their merits and content of their character and NOT on any other nonsensical qualities, such as the color of their skin or how much money one's parents donated to the college. I have stated MANY times above that I consider Whites who got in to college via their rich parents to be no different than Blacks or Hispanics who got in through affirmative action: They are all cheaters.
@drj90210 But for every 1"unqualified"black person 2 Unqualified whites get in.Nobody gets mad at this statistic.MLK was for Affirmative Action. Due to affirmative action for whites it led to better jobs, loans, schooling, etc.We learn about whites throughout k-12 and ppl get mad becuz of black history month, that seems unfair, if you learned about blacks and ignored white history you would have somethin 2 say. Why can't we get a little 14% of this american dream, which includes other minorities
@JayJ004 You are not listening to a word that I am writing. I think ALL forms of AA should be banned (i.e. AA based upon race and AA based upon bribes and legacy). Also, can you show me a link of your statistic stated above ("1 unqualified black person for 2 unqualified white person") because I cannot find this anywhere in the literature. During MLK's time, AA had an entirely different meaning. In the 1960s, the goal of AA was to ELMINATE racial preferences: Now it means the opposite.
@drj90210 People still have racial preference, I understand wat your saying, but racism is here still. Whites have a perception of blacks(black too) that they are bad, drug dealers, basically lower class, etc. Who own businesses, whites because of AA that was given to them. School/Jobs maintained a quota of 85% whites. Blacks are less then 15, when they are like 40% of the pop. AA regulations were never inafec, getting rid of AA only increases whites chances, until that time when racism left,AA
@JayJ004 So because a tiny minority of White people are racist, we should have a system of AA that is racist and discriminates against ALL Whites? Is this really the logic behind your defense of AA? I've got news for you, people from ALL races can be racist. The fact of the matter is that college applicants pay money to be judged as individuals, and with literally a dozen legitimate attributes to be judged on, there is absolute no excuse why a racist system like AA should be used.
@JayJ004 Your perception of how the system works is twisted. The vast majority of Whites who own businesses have made sacrifices, worked their @sses off, and made prudent investments: Nobody is given a business because they are White (this is a ridiculous premise). School/Jobs do NOT maintain a quota of Whites: This is pure nonsense and you have nothing to back this up. It seems that, like most supports of AA, you have a giant chip on your shoulder and many ill-feelings towards Whites.
@drj90210 No,majority of black businesses are denied to loans,that means white ppl ideas are better. Whites have 12xwealth than blacks due to inheritance.If that quota of whites is not true then why,schools like harvard has kept a "quota" of 90% white since 1960. Since 1930 98% of bank loans were given to whites to open businesses, own houses. Which were passed down to generation, then until FHA in 1962 was created. It wasn't maintained to be fair,in 2006 was the highest # of race discrimination
@JayJ004 Again, where is your evidence of your outlandish claims? You have absurd claims without any shred of evidence. I can't believe that you think that most Whites get their money from "inheritance." Yeah, all White folk are like Bruce Wayne and we all live the gigantic mansions. Even if this insane claim was true (which it certainly is not), how do you explain why Asians, Jews, and Middle Easterns should be impeded by AA, while Blacks and Hispanics unfairly benefit. AA is pure racism.
@drj90210 OK, how bout you research on the average wealth of the middle class white, and location where they live, then do the same for the avg wealth of the middle class black, and location. Ask your self why there are more whites, with more wealth and ask yourself, why are the difference so great and then say to yourself that because they are black and dum/stupid watever you may come to conclusion, or ask yourself do whites really work that much harder? Low income jobs generally is more work!
@JayJ004 No. That's not how debate works. If YOU put out figures, then it is up to YOU to back them up. I am not doing your research for you. Also, you continue to say ridiculous things like "low income jobs is generally more work." Yeah, I'm sure that a janitor works harder than a neurosurgeon...LOL! Where do you come up with this nonsense. High income jobs OBVIOUSLY require MUCH more training, education, and responsibility. Whites have the same opportunity to earn wealth as Blacks.
@JayJ004 Let's use your "logic" and take a look at sports. By looking at the NFL, MLB, NBA, Olympics, marathon events,etc, it's clear that Blacks dominate major sports and comprise an overwhelming majority. Yet, Blacks make up a minority of the population. It is thus clear that Blacks have INHERITED good genes for sports. Therefore, would you agree in starting an affirmative action program for sports to even up the playing field for Whites, Middle Easterners, Asians, Jews, and other groups?
@drj90210 MLB? watever,1 reason why blacks are better in sports is because in slavery time they were bred like race horses. You sound stupid leveling the playing field, they are totally better in sports. Don't put whites in the same category as other minorities because they wouldn't agree to it, middle easterners in this country is looked at as though they were terrorist, jews as well(by the white community). Blk ppl in the low income areas(majority), only think they got a chance to play sports
@drj90210 Because of this institutionalized system, blacks schooling is far less funded than that of white schools, and due to more unfair things in society,blacks have statistically the worst outcome on life/"latinos" too. Do you kno why they label them as latinos/hispanics. Because majority of them have Native American blood in them, and if you label them what they are, then it entitles them to this land.Mexicans, lived here before whites, now they're immigrants and intruders? White privilege
@JayJ004 Your comments are entirely without basis. Your make-believe concept of "White Privilege" is as equally ridiculous as a concept of Black Privilege regarding professional sports. Also, YOU are the one labeling people into groups: Not me. I, on the other hand, believe that people should be judged by the content of their character, as Dr. MLK believed. Applicants pay hard-earned money to be judged as individuals with their own personal accomplishments, and not merely members of a group.
@drj90210 But what your not understanding, when your black you don't get judged by the content of you character, but by race. Dr. MLK believed in Affirmative Action. So your wrong. White people been getting affirmative action for years, while blacks/minorities were shyt on. Now we're living on that legacy for the most part. I no longer want to discuss this with you because I'm just going to repeat myself. Open your eyes, you just don't want to believe because you're white.
Affirmative action is racist: PERIOD!! It is obvious that it should be outlawed. None of these bloviating morons during this debate have been able to contest this fact. Judging someone based on the color of their skin is indeed "racist," by the very definition of that word. I hope someday that once we have a leader in this country who is not an absolute idiot and coward, that this disgusting system will be outlawed.
@drj90210 Actually, affirmative action is designed to try to counter racism. To try to gain equality. Countering the white affirmative action of the past hundreds of years. A lot of people don't like that term, equality. It's usually because the overprivileged don't feel their own privilege and so think that they have to be victims of discrimination. Or, that the underprivileged refuse to acknowledge their situation as such, because it feels like they're admitting inferiority.
@loewenclass It was DESIGNED to counter racism, but has since developed into a racist system itself. Real EQUALITY is putting everyone on an equal field and having them judged EQUALLY: Affirmative action prevents this from happening. Who cares if some Whites were advantaged many generations ago? What do those people have to do with adolesent students applying to college today? Why should these high school White kids have to suffer for someone else's wrongdoing? This makes no sense to me.
@chica476 That's a little bit pessimistic, wouldn't you say? Equality certainly is not imaginary: It is real and should be aspired for. In order to acheive it, all we have to do is end racist systems such as affirmative acting. Will there still be racist individuals with power? Of course, but at least we can end a culture of systematic racism, such as those policies of affirmative action, that are a plague in our universities and businesses. This will be a huge step towards MLK's dream.
Fact: A white criminal is far more likely to get a job than a black person with out one if everything is else is equal. I am sure you are ok with that .
Fact: if your name sounds black you are far less likely to get job as a person with a white sounding name. But I am sure you are ok with that .
White women are the group that are helped out the most by Affirmative Action than any other group . yet you complain that it helps black people .
@Joeybsmooth Show me evidence that white criminals are more likely to get jobs than black criminals who committed equal crimes. If you can't, then you're just BSing.
White women ARE unfairly advantaged by AA, and I believe this is EQUALLY as wrong as unfairly advantaging Blacks, so please insert your foot in mouth. I never complained that AA only helps Blacks, so stop putting words in my mouth.
AA is wrong: PERIOD. There is no justification for such a racist system in this day and age.
I already told you what to look up to find that information . It is the first thing you get to using Google.
They fact the even after you said it helps white women you still call it racist speaks volumes . And also the reason they it is not wrong is for the reason I already listed. in this world black people are already handicapped and you want them to be disadvantaged even more .
@Joeybsmooth THAT'S NOT HOW DEBATE WORKS!! You can't just say "look it up." If you have a serious allegation, then this allegation demands that YOU provide serious evidence to back it up. Get to work....
Just because white women are helped, doesn't mean that AA isn't an unfair and racist system. Black people are NOT "handicapped!" This is insulting to both Blacks and those who are truly physically or mentally handicapped. Grow up and wise up.
THAT IS HOW DEBATE WORKS!, here . Since you can not link articles here, I gave you the NAMES of specific articles, and the exact location to where you can find them.
Also Handicapped has an wider manning than what you are thinking about .
This debate is interesting. I think the debate could have been much more fruitful if the organizers had requisitioned Thomas Sowell for the pro motion.
That said, Stephen Levitt noted that "ghetto black" names like "deshawn" to employers could just as easily signal a disadvantaged background and, thus, unreliability. Tim Wise says that qualifications are controlled for, but quite frankly resumes are very unreliable, 50% of them contain lies.
Call it "classism", but crimes require mens rea, and unless someone has an overt, unjustified bias against lower classes, it's not a crime.
The fact is, and this is indisputable, that employers, justifiably, do not think of workers from lower class "ghetto" neighborhoods as reliable. That they are in such neighborhoods and in the lower class is incidental.
Although that said, Tim Wise has stated, unequivocally, that racism is designed to disguise class-ism. I don't think that's true (Jews in America, Armenians in Turkey, other so-called "middleman minorities started out in grinding poverty), but if it really is a disguise for classism, why not have affirmative action based on class instead of the secondary category (and problem) of race? Should a black kid from an affluent neighborhood with rich parents be given higher priority over a white kid...
It is not classism is is a assumed classism, people will assume black people are of lower class than white people no matter what. That is why cops pull black people over driving nice cars.
It's sad, but frankly these facts are simple reflections of statistical realities: Blacks, especially those from low-income, high-crime neighborhoods, are more likely to commit crimes of every sort and are more likely to be unreliable employees.
Take one black person you don't know, roll the dice, it is a simple fact that he's more likely to exhibit the traits described above.
@Joeybsmooth 'cops pull over black people with nice cars', is a pretty vague and anecdotal peace of evidence to make your point. Moreover, even if we are to accept this as a statistically valid phenomenon it's still quite a stretch to basically go 'Cops target black people/assumed classism '- ergo we need a system of racial policies in which an upper-middle class black kid is seen as more disadvantaged than an impoverished white kid.
It is not just that, it is a lot of stuff beyond that, a white person with a criminal recorded would get a job over a black person even if everything else was the same .
You have the gall to talk about MLK's Dream while you try to take away the only thing that comes close to evening things. Black people still have a harder time even when they are qualified, and you want to act as if white people did not have there Affrimtive Action for close to 200 years.
@Joeybsmooth I have the RIGHT to talk about MLK's dream, because my dream is the same: To obtain equality. Affirmative action is the opposite of equality. It is an abhorant RACIST system that only serve to further segregate us. There is no evidence whatsoever that "balck people still have a harder time" so please stop with this BS. Even if such an "white affirmative action" existed, so what? Should we punish Whites today for advantages that other Whites had 200 years ago? Sounds racist.
First I have shown your where white people are advantaged , and learn some history, black people we still facing government mandated racism in the late 60s . And slavery was still alive and well 150. So I do not get why you have to say from something that happen 200 years ago .
@Joeybsmooth No, you HAVEN'T. Stating that SOME White people were "advantaged 150 years ago" has NOTHING to do with ALL White people TODAY! My family, myself, and the families of 99% of Whites today did not advantage from slavery AT ALL! Why don't YOU learn some history moron, but first learn to use some logic and common sense.
So because SOME Blacks were facing racisim in the 1960s, we should punish ALL Whites TODAY? Is this really your argument?! Absolutely racist and idiotic.
Wow you talk about how debate works when all you use are straw man. And to the fact that you shown time after time that you do not have a understanding of history please do not ask me to learn about history .
@Joeybsmooth No straw man here. I think you should look up the work "straw man" in a dictionary before you use it. That way you won't make yourself look like a fool.
I majored in US history in college jackass, so I think I know a little bit. Wise up PLEASE.
Now what you are doing is called appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy. You have shown that your knowledge of US history is questionable as most .
@Joeybsmooth Bogus. It was you who insulted my knowledge 1ST. I just proved that I am indeed VERY knowledgable. This is not "appeal to authority.," Its called DEBATING and defending a point.
Just wow, you have shown with your lack of understanding of US history that you are not an authority. There for trying too prove you are right by citing that you have a degree in US history does not carry much weight.
By the way I hold BAs in History and Political Science. Given your logic I would be more knowledgeable on this subject only based on that.
@Joeybsmooth More empty insults from you and nothing but filler. Get back to me when you have someone worthwhile for me to read.
I could care less about your bull$hit Bachelor degrees, since you have only proven your ignorance here.
The reference to my major in US history was to defend myself against your insults. For instance, you wrote to me, "You do not have a understanding of history ." I could not let this go unchallanged, hence the reference to my major.
And stop derailing this conversation talking about your "qualifications" You where to lazy to go were I told you for proof. So I posted them, you need to look at them fast before they are removed .
@Joeybsmooth Listen moron, I'm not "derailing" anything. I'm DEFENDING myself against your baseless insults. It's is YOU who is "too lazy" to provide actual evidence. I debunked the nonsense study and article you to me to read (see my prior post). The 1st source relies on a survey of CRIMINALS for its data (e.g. the study relies on the honesty of criminals for its data), and even the author acknowledges this as a flaw. The 2nd source is not a study, but a brief description of a study.
Even after showing proof to back up my statements you still wish to say it not ok. Using the the defense that something is a depiction of a study is a laughable . And to top that off she was not rely on criminals, there was a control group tested. But as someone already stated no matter what people show you are still going to turn a blind eye to what is going on. I am done with you . I have gone pass the standards of proof . And I see I am wasting my time.
@Joeybsmooth My whole point is that you DID NOT PROVE JACK! I easily debunked those "studies." The 2nd link was indeed an online magazine's brief description of a study, and not a real study. This does not impress me. I need to be able to review a REAL study (e.g. Intro, Methods, Results, Conclusion, Conflict of Interest).
I'm not turning a "blind eye." I'm just waiting for some valid data to buttress your argument. So far, I'm not seeing any.
@Joeybsmooth Thank you for EXTREMELY biased data (Soros Foundation and Joyce Foundation funded). It makes it that much easier to debunk. The 1st "study" involved a survey methodology (already weak data) that invovles ex-CRIMINALS answering questions regarding employement. Even the author had her doubts on the honesty of these criminals.
The second source involved an story without any methodology section or study for me to review. Do you have the study upon which this excerpt was based?
@loewenclass The logic of affirmative action plainly makes no sense. Here's the "logic": Because Black people were mistreated by SOME Whites many generations ago, we should punish White students and job-seekers today? It's the same as stating, "If Person A was wronged by person B, we can acheive justice by having Person C have an advantage over Person D." Does this really make sense in your head?
@Entropy56 I heard that ad hominem attacks aren't a logical agrument, and are usually used by hopeless folks who've just been fucking PWND and don't know what to do with themselves. Any truth to that?
Penis Envy is a Freudian/Jungian social architecture which states that young girls are jealous of young boys due to the fact that they lack a penis... are you a black nationalist by any chance?
Even though minorities were oppressed. Thomas Sowell writes that 5 years prior to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, black gains in employment and education were actually higher than 5 years after. Black progress in employment and education was a long-standing trend from the WWII era, almost 2 decades before the 1964 law, and before the era of affirmative action in the mid 1970s. The black problem that we see today actually happen during the the 70s, not before the civil rights era.
Obamas mediocre grades at Occidental College did not merit admission into Colombia, where his mediocre grades should have precluded admittance to Harvard Law School, where he was artificially thrust to the lead the Harvard Law Review, where he became the first leader NOT to write editorial pieces. Obama was given such privileges without proven merit.
3. Did Kenyans or the Irish suffer most from colonial occupation and oppression?
4. Should the children of foreign nationals get racial preferences at all, especially since Obamas East African father holds little genetic information in common with American blacks, who are West Africans?
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Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
@islandmuffin Your Philosophy reads like a classic Libertarian. I have no problem with it. I agree with every aspect of it in theory. The problem arises when theory bangs up against reality. The reality is that The USA was founded on a very different philosophy. The USA was founded on a philosophy rooted in the idea of Global White Supremacy. From DAY ONE Native Americans where exterminated and Africans classified as less than human and considered 3/4 of a person. Women had no right to vote.
@ResearchKnowledge123 When I read Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, or any of The Founding Fathers, I fail to see anywhere their words agree with your assessment.
Therefore, it is your biased hatred of them that clouds your world view.
@islandmuffin The White American system of Chattel Slavery is unique in Human History. Every other form granted the enslaved person a way out, provided they met certain criteria or fullfilled certain obligations. People as property is a White American Concept. It's documented fact that some of the founders were Slave Owners. Jefferson fathered children with an Enslaved African named Sally Hemmings.
@islandmuffin Asians and Hispanics should not get AA preferences. They are here on their own. They should deal with whatever challenges come their way just like all the rest. Natives land was stolen and tens of millions slaughtered, Africans were prisoners of war. AA is a miniscule price to pay. Regardless of who invented it, Whites participated in it. Brazils policy has nothing to with US policy. The Slaves was promised 40 acres and a mule as compensation for slavery but never received it.
@ResearchKnowledge123 just because something is right does not mean it works...AA at least in education has been shown to be a disaster for Afri Amer students. Every single black student who got into an elite school under AA would of still got into a regular school without it, the only difference is that a lot of those students ended up flucking out or doing badly, where if they went to the school they matched with they would of excelled and went on to grad school to phd's
@mavinga I'd rather stick with what is right. I'd like you to point out a study that suggest Affirmative Action has been a disaster for Black students. I know for a fact that White students have been getting Affirmative Action benefits since the founding of the republic. Now when Blacks get a fraction of what is owed to us Whites want to cry foul.
@islandmuffin The founders practiced complete and total hypocrisy. The idea of Enslaved Africans being considered less than human was enshrined in the various founding documents. They supported the institution of Slavery. They hated Africans for no reason except the color of their skin. Whites have been waging Unjust wars of aggression against Africans for hundreds of years without cause.
@islandmuffin The US toppled Jean Bertrand Aristide in a Coup and exiled him to South Africa. He has wanted to return to Haiti since then. Especially since the earthquake. The people have demanded it. Instead the US installed a puppet dictator in Preval. A former waiter that worked in New York. France, The US and Canada have meddled in Haitian affairs since independence. France extorting $21 Billion in exchange for their continued independence.
@islandmuffin I'm stating facts of history. Since when does stating facts of history equals hatred for those responsible for creating the situation to which I speak? What have I said to give you the impression that I hate the founders?
@islandmuffin Whitey is not only thinking it, they are active participants in bringing the failure about. Whites are waging war on Africans as we speak. The staging of Coup de'tats is an act of war. Assassinating and undermining the leadership is what is causing Africa to fail. Unjust trade laws and US subsidizing American farmers distorts and disrupts developing African economies. It's cheaper for Africans to buy US rice than local rice.
@islandmuffin It's been an uphill battle since then to create a free and fair society in which every American has an equal chance at achieving prosperity. The reason it's been an uphill battle is because White Males consolidated economic and political power in every sphere of human endeavor business, education, politics, etc. The reality renders your philosophy obselete.
@islandmuffin 1) I don't know what his academic record is. I thought his records were sealed. 2) Neither is a White Male so I'm guessing they all suffered oppression to varying degrees. 3) Ireland was never Colonized so of course it would have to be Kenyans. Ethiopia and Liberia were the only African Nations to never be colonized as far as I know. 4) Whites discriminate based on skin color not genetics. Thus even foreign nationals children suffer when they shouldn't.
@ResearchKnowledge123 We know for a fact that Obama never made honors so his GPA was less that 3.3 at Occidental and Columbia. How much less we do not know because he sealed and hides his records.
North Ireland is still colonized.
Black Africans hunted reddish skinned bushman to near extinction.
It was most common to enslave other races before black slavery was institutionalized.
@islandmuffin What does Obama's transcript have to do with anything? Even if he had a 1.00 GPA, that has nothing to do with his winning the election. The people cast thier votes based on his position on the issues. Not his report card. All Africans are Black Skinned. Skin color based clashes never existed in Africa. Any conflicts that existed was based on Tribal affiliation. The existence of Slavery throughout human history never evolved into Chattel Slavery. That is a White American Creation.
@islandmuffin What does affirmative action have to do with winning a public office? Bush benefitted from affirmative action based on legacy traditions at Yale. His daddy went so they made it possible for the son to attend. Its Yale tradition. The world agrees he's far dumber than Obama.
@ResearchKnowledge123 yes but being white dosnt give you legacy tradition at yale. If that is the issue then affermative action shgould be based on something other then race.
@AEVautomatic The Michigan Supreme court ruled that Affirmative Action should be narrowly tailored to meet a specific injustice. That injustice should be The enslavement of Africans for over 200 Years. Attorneys arguing for Affirmative Action based on race is making a huge mistake. Blacks end up fighting for every minority entering the country. Mexicans and Asians end up benefiting off of Black suffering.
@ResearchKnowledge123@ResearchKnowledge123 "Everyone else is here on there own free will." Sounds like you are being held by some physical restraint!? Being a part of the "Everyone else" group, I'm free. I would like to help free you from your current predicament. Do I need to bring a bolt cutter? Maybe a shovel, to dig you out? Or a rope, so you can climb up? I really want to help. By the way the "there" in your quote should be "their"
@AEVautomatic I agree with you 100%. Affirmative Action should be based on something other than race. It should be based on the systematic enslavement and disenfranchisment of African Americans, and African Americans only. We are the only non-immigrant group in the US. Everyone else is here on there own free will. Therefore they should deal with the hardships just like every other immigrant.
@ResearchKnowledge123 I don't think you know what an immigrant is. You are a non immigrant group member if you didnt immigrate here. It dosn't matter what your ansestors did. Look up the word immigrant once. Everyone is here of their own free will this is not a prision. People were enslaved all over the place. People were hung stabbed raped beaten tourtured killed in wars all over the place in the past.
@AEVautomatic Stop complicating the issue. The facts of history are clear. Africans were prisoners of war. Forcibly brought here against their will by Europeans. Them and their descendents are therefore non-immigrants. That is the basis under which Affirmative Action and or reparations should be granted. To say that we are free to leave has zero bearing on the facts related to determining if reparations or affirmative action are warranted.
@ResearchKnowledge123 "Everyone else is here on there own free will." Sounds like you are being held by some physical restraint!? Being a part of the "Everyone else" group, I'm free. I would like to help free you from your current predicament. Do I need to bring a bolt cutter? Maybe a shovel, to dig you out? Or a rope, so you can climb up? I really want to help. By the way the "there" in your quote should be "their"
@KYPopskull Your point being? The issue this video addresses is whether Affirmative Action is warranted. I and others argue Yes Indeed! Because Africans and her descendents were brought here against our will. My ability to leave has zero bearing on the historical crime and atrocity committed against Africans and her descendents. So if you have a relevent point to make please make it. Otherwise don't waste my time.
I disagree with the diversity arguments he makes. A diverse university allows one to learn more about others and to grow as a peron. Sure if you are a math student perhaps diversity is not pertinent to the subject but in social science classes such as Sociology, Political Science, etc. it is VERY important because you learn from these students about their experiences for being of a certain race, ethnicity and gender etc.
It is unfortunate that you quantify diversity with race and ethnicity. Why is there no attention paid to black pop-culture that drives much of the negative opinions are held against blacks ? They are self evident. Equal treatment based on merit is all that is fair regardless of color. Preferential treatment is just that, preferential, and is racist. This is basic logic. AA creates excuses for failure and promotes black america to feel as tho they are inadequate. AA hurts, it does not help.
He's talking more generally. He's referring to the fact that when a black student performs well in a mixed race school - that person is shunned by his black peers for 'acting white' as it doesn't fit with black people's 'victim status'.
This issue is the focus of his book "Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America".
It's all about how an addiction to underdog status (a holdover from the affirmative action era) causes blacks to turn their backs on pursuing a proper education.
it believe he meant to say that comparing black students to legacy students or being accepted to uiversties for which their score did not qualify them does not help them to be there best.... at least i think thats what he meant
.....why did Mr. Mcwhorter limit the experience of diversity on campus to a person being called upon in class to give his/her perspective on an issue (as if this person fully represents the ethnic background of his/her people!).
It's important as humans that we get to know each other and learn from each other. WTF is he talking about? such an uncle Tom in the since that he doesn't see the importance of diversity in top universities.
He freakin taught at my school last decade too (UC Berkeley)
UC Berkeley is hostile but it's not intolerant. I've met very few people who have had to hide their true selves to fit in. However, as a result, they may not fit in so much because of this.
That's why I'd describe the environment here as hostile too.
He's absolutely right, playing with statistics to artificially increase minority representation does NOTHING to address the underlying problem (not the disparity gap) but the educational gap.
And placing any student in a cirriculum beyond their capabilities does more harm than good, at the cost of displacing a student otherwise capable of filling those placements.
i would love to hear you say some of these things directly to my face so i can break that fuckin beak you call a nose in 5 places. "you may as well say what's wrong with lynching, burning and skinning people alive." imagine if i were to sit here and say "what's wrong with calling white people smelly dog animals that rape their children?" it's clear from your comments that you have some very serious psychological and emotional problems. please seek help animal.
nobody complains about how non diverse a nation like China is where over 90% of the people are 1 ETHNIC GROUP, not just Asian but just one Chinese ethnic group that makes up over a billion people in this world, but yet countries like England with over 90% white population is somehow not diverse when it has DOZENS of ethnic groups making up that majority of white people.
the hypocrisy is laughable and racist entirely against white people in this world.
lol. you've got to be the biggest joke on youtube. you're comments and so-called logic is so absurd it's laughable. that's all. i'm not even going to waste my time debating rationally with a clearly irrational and unstable person. lmfao.
Also, I didn't hear Dr. Whorton, or John C. Phillips offer an alternative mechanism that can bridge the racial disparity gap in admissions for top universities.
There is no mechanism...they are simply saying that it has to happen on it's own. There shouldn't be an outside force that bridges this gap..the diversity will improve. You have to believe and have faith in our educational system and have faith that the gap will lessen because there are very smart people out there, many who are minorities, and those people do not need any assistance. The gap will close give it time
hmmm sounds like the type of excuse of they gave to not deal with slavery or segregation for so long. neither of which were dealt with until FORCED to do so.
No. Segregation and slavery were clearly two physical tools of oppression. Blacks were LEGALLY prevented from enjoying the same rights and privileges as whites and were dying because of it. FORCE, as you say, was necessary then.
Now, however, group level action is not appropriate. In fact group-mentality in black society is what is holding blacks down; underdog / victim status.
Blacks need to move away from seeing themselves primarily as part of a group to seeing themselves as individuals.
Thomas Sowell states prior to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, black gains in employment and education were actually higher than in the 5 years after. Black progress in employment and education was a long-standing trend from the WWII era, almost 2 decades before the 1964 law, and before the era of affirmative action in the mid 1970s. Black gains in education and employment after 1964 Sowell maintains, continued this established upward movement in the booming postwar economy.
He brings up interesting points. But, is he talking about causality or correlation? Maybe there are other reasons why black students that are admitted into law school may be failing, or in the bottom 10%. It could be the way they study, their access to study materials, and/or access to faculty. They could feel unwelcome, which would affect their emotional state. Studies have shown that group study outside of the class room and a support group helps a student of any race perform better.
He never made a point, rhetoric as it's worst, i wonder does he ever both to hear his self speak and gives a darn what he says, he is so lost or he is just a foolor he's a waste of his own imagination
Compared to whom? Did you watch the whole debate? Mcwhorter actually cited specific examples of how affirmative action has had a negative effect such as the UC San Diego example (by the way that example was typical of many UC schools following the ban it was not an isolated instance). Nobody who was speaking in favor of affirmative action gave even one example of an instance when an affirmative action program led to positive results.
I think that these racial policies actually hurt middle class black kids and are a large part of the reason for the black-white gap in SAT scores. By lowering the numerical criteria for admission (almost .5 gpa and 200 points lower on the SAT according to a number of studies) AA kills the incentives among black and hispanic students to perform at the level of white/asian students and it kills the incentives for teachers in poor neighborhoods to coach them to that level.
marx7555 1 month ago
@marx7555
I like who you speak about he points that black kids get .. how about the extra points that white students get . For example if you live in the right part of the state you get points spotted, if you take classes that are offered mostly in white areas you get points spotted .
Joeybsmooth 1 month ago
@Joeybsmooth True, and both of those preferences are unfair and should end. The problem is that only a fraction of white students benefit from those preferences whereas all black students recieve affirmative action. Not to mention that racial preference (Tim wise even admits this in his speech) is the largest boost in points. Yes I agree though that geographic/legacy preferences should end as well.
marx7555 1 month ago
@Joeybsmooth In fact I think that we should get rid of those preferences before we even think of getting rid of AA.
marx7555 1 month ago
@Joeybsmooth The phenomena you mentioned aren't racial, they're socio-economical. Compare a poor white boy living in Arkansas to a rich black teenager living in Malibu. Which student gets spotted? Which of the two areas have more so-called "AP" classes?
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
@derivativesarecool
Do to years and years of a redlining , and housing discrimination it is far less likely for black people to be in those good parts of town. Unless you want to act like that did not happen . It is always funny how people act as if the past does not have a major effect on the here and now, that would be like suggesting that Paris Hilton would be as rich and famous today if your parents were not rich.
Joeybsmooth 2 weeks ago
@Joeybsmooth Redlining is a practice used by banking firms as a cheap screening method to access risk of default. Obtaining information is really really expensive, and banking firms just add a premium, i.e. charging higher interest rates, to blacks and Latinos. In fact, Asians on average are charged lower interest rates than whites. Does that mean that banking firms discriminate against whites? No. The phenomenon of redlining is a result of culture and history and not of race as I will explain.
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
@Joeybsmooth The reason why banking firms add a premium if you're black or Latino is a history of default and irresponsibility by blacks and Latinos. Asians, on the other hand, have were generally more responsible in managing their incomes and not "buying Escalades using their house equity as collateral." To change discriminatory practices, one must change the culture and the perception of black American culture. Unfortunately, affirmative action programs do the exact opposite; they stigmatize.
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
@Joeybsmooth I forgot to mention the fact that redlining isn't "blatant discrimination" from white communities. It's just charging higher interest rates, often much higher (4%-5% on top of the base), to black and Latinos. What I do support are social programs that seek to change the culture of black America. A program like the Khomeini-era family planning initiative instituted by the Iranian government in the 1980s to reduce fertility rates would be a good option to consider.
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
@Joeybsmooth The Paris Hilton phenomenon is socio-economic. I can ask the same question. Would Jaden Smith, the son of Mr. Will Smith, be rich and famous today if his father were not rich? No, and it's funny because you don't take a look at the next question. Would a poor white farm boy in Arkansas be rich and famous today if his parents were not rich? No, and in 20 years, he would still be stuck on the farm. You need to remember that 70% of food stamp recipients are white...
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
@derivativesarecool By the way, don't be like other people and paint me as a "racist, bigot, or a member of the KKK" because of my First Amendment Right. That type of language, unfortunately commonplace in our colleges and universities, drowns out intellectual conversation.
derivativesarecool 2 weeks ago
You don't dismantle something that's dubious like Affirmative Action before you build something more appropriate because the underlying issue of inequality still exists.
theChangaMusic 1 month ago
@theChangaMusic Agreed, and if we were to remake Affirmative Action to adress purely socio-economic disparities it would be a vastly better system. Yes it would help some poor white kids but it would help a proportionally much larger number of black and hispanic students since minorities are disproportionately poorer. The current system is flawed. What kind of message are we sending a middle class black kid when we tell him that he needs 200 extra SAT pts to compete with whites?
marx7555 1 month ago
Where do these useless uncle toms like Phillips and this idiot come from..???
freein2339 2 months ago
@TBow009 How do we have diversity, I learn about white people from k-12. They celebrate christopher columbus day when a european took over latin america and killed all the native people. Pilgrims did the same thing, but they don't tell you the truth in schools. I live in a all black neighbor hood where everyone is either lower middle class, and poor. I don't even see whites unless they are commuting, they live in a all white neighbor where they are Higher middle class, and even rich.
JayJ004 6 months ago
@JayJ004 Did they teach you in school about how the native tribes used to murder each other in mass, commited genocide against each other. Or do they tell you about the African tribes who used to be at war with other tribes and hand over their captives to the Arab and European slave traders? They didn't tell you about African slavery of whites or white slavery of whites. The point is that the past bloody and they keep it PG as possible for k-12, it isn't some white vs black thing.
EasyEs 4 months ago
@EasyEs Exactly, by their logic we should also force Egyptians to give affirmative action to Jews or force the Algerians to give affirmative action to white Mediterranean people, or force the mongolians to give affirmative action to any ethnic chinese in their country or force turkey to give affirmative action to ethnic Ukrainians the list goes on...
marx7555 4 months ago
Good point. It looks, to me, that Wise is committing a massive is-ought fallacy.
You're right to point out that the argument form doesn't carry. The ends (equality) are dubious at best, but they certainly do not justify the means (overt, outright racism)
migkillertwo 1 month ago
@TBow009 But if you do that, how are you going to create diversity w/o affirmative action, you have to put in account of the legacy of black oppression that gave certain privileges to white people, that gave them the ability to achieve a certain amount of success, and the legacy that left their children. Jews are not extremist, what are these jews skin color. I said watch the documentary Bloods and Crips: Made in America
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 But you labeling all blacks because of these crimes, like whites are all godly because of the color of their skin. You a separatist or somethin? Whites are less likely to get convicted of crimes and don't go to prison. There has been 130 white terrorist since 1980, only 19 islamic terrorist that brought down towers. Nobody is looking for whites to strike again, wtf is reverse racism, that is someshyt that racist created. Look at the doc Bloods and crips:made in america
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 See that is what this institutionalized society created,the fear of blacks,that they are coming after you and your things...Wrong black kids are growing up uneducated and uninfluenced, but kids nowadays are living in the here and now,all races,care about money,popularity,machismo. I doubt in europe that blacks are doing that because there are alot of whites that are poor as well and live with the blacks.That is what Affirmative Action is for, affirming that blks get into jobs/schools
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 Close proximity? We live in segregated neighborhoods... I live in philadelphia where most whites I come across live in economic areas of philadelphia (not really considered phila) where the money flow is higher while blacks live in low class areas. It's like that for most of the neighborhoods in America.
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 I dont see your last comments but, alot of white people blame black ppl for their problems, economic problems, schooling problems, employment problems. Like oh ok, "segregation is over" so you have no more excuses. Then white ppl blame jews for all the things that a vast of majority of whites did to blacks and people of color in modern history. And then alot of them say it in a manner if they were persecuted throughout history too.
JayJ004 6 months ago
@JayJ004 "Segregation" had suppose been over only 35 yrs ago. My brother is older than that. My mom lived in the 60's, only 50 yrs ago when a white man spit on her. Most likely he is still living and spread his hate machine to his children.
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 What are today jews skin color? If their not white people who own, or run these banks and corporations and government then who do?
JayJ004 6 months ago
@TBow009 I did not say that, but if their not white then what are they? Your Anti-sematic remarks are typical for a conservative american. Blaming jews and blacks/minorities for all the problems. Only 1% of the population controls 35% of Americas wealth. White people control this society too, they are the ones who own and run companies, corporations, the police department government, stocks. White people always want to wipe their hands clean with anti-sematic remarks.
JayJ004 6 months ago
@JayJ004 cant blame themselves but can always point finger at jews.
Mr1700 6 months ago
@Mr1700 true
JayJ004 6 months ago
@Royisinabox It IS punishing White males, Asians, and Middle Easterners. So what if AA helps white women? You seem to use bad behavior to justify other bad behavior, but I fail to see the logic. The truth is, as I have stated, that there is simply no justfication to use racist systems of advantage like AA. Students can and should be judged by their GPA, SAT scores, SAT II scores, AP placement tests, sporting activities, club involvement, imployment, and essays: Race should NOT be a factor.
drj90210 10 months ago
@drj90210 Do you have stats on how this hurts white males? do you know that less qualified white students get admissions yearly at the expense of other highly qualified white students. test scores are just another measure they use to weigh candidacy.
emptycell 9 months ago
@emptycell Stats? No. I have common sense. If a program gives a member of a certain race an unfair advantage, then logic dictates that members of other races must therefore be disadvantaged. I do know that less qualified whites are given unfair advantages as well. This is equally wrong. Using bad behavior to justify other bad behavior is not a good argument on your part. The fact is that affirmative action gives huge unfair advantages to certain "minorities" at the unjust expense of others
drj90210 9 months ago
@drj90210 so every qualified white male who never got in could chunk it up to this "evil affirmative action" law right? test scores are just one way they use to measure applicants, other factors come into play such as extracurriculars, legacy babies, socio economic backgrounds etc. The law only helps out those who are EQUALLY QUALIFIED that would other wise be rejected. They do not just pick up some "minority" just for affirmative action sake.
emptycell 9 months ago
@emptycell Yes. Qualified white males could logically use that defense. If AA did not exist, then this excuse would be invalid. Testing is indeed only one way to measure applicants: I've already mentioned other measures, such as extracurricular activity, GPA, volunteering, employment, sporting actvities, etc. Thus, with so many measure of apptitude, AA is unnecessary. Legacies are just another example of AA. AA does NOT only help equally qualified people (see the U. Michigan quota system)
drj90210 9 months ago
@drj90210 So that qualified white male point the finger due to the action of affirmative action, so he points the finger "unqualified" black person, but refuses that usually there are probably more unqualified whites, that "took his job" because they new someone, or their parents?
JayJ004 7 months ago
Comment removed
drj90210 7 months ago
@JayJ004 What? My position has been consistent and equal to that of Dr. MLK: People should be judged based upon their merits and content of their character and NOT on any other nonsensical qualities, such as the color of their skin or how much money one's parents donated to the college. I have stated MANY times above that I consider Whites who got in to college via their rich parents to be no different than Blacks or Hispanics who got in through affirmative action: They are all cheaters.
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 But for every 1"unqualified"black person 2 Unqualified whites get in.Nobody gets mad at this statistic.MLK was for Affirmative Action. Due to affirmative action for whites it led to better jobs, loans, schooling, etc.We learn about whites throughout k-12 and ppl get mad becuz of black history month, that seems unfair, if you learned about blacks and ignored white history you would have somethin 2 say. Why can't we get a little 14% of this american dream, which includes other minorities
JayJ004 7 months ago
@JayJ004 You are not listening to a word that I am writing. I think ALL forms of AA should be banned (i.e. AA based upon race and AA based upon bribes and legacy). Also, can you show me a link of your statistic stated above ("1 unqualified black person for 2 unqualified white person") because I cannot find this anywhere in the literature. During MLK's time, AA had an entirely different meaning. In the 1960s, the goal of AA was to ELMINATE racial preferences: Now it means the opposite.
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 People still have racial preference, I understand wat your saying, but racism is here still. Whites have a perception of blacks(black too) that they are bad, drug dealers, basically lower class, etc. Who own businesses, whites because of AA that was given to them. School/Jobs maintained a quota of 85% whites. Blacks are less then 15, when they are like 40% of the pop. AA regulations were never inafec, getting rid of AA only increases whites chances, until that time when racism left,AA
JayJ004 7 months ago
@JayJ004 So because a tiny minority of White people are racist, we should have a system of AA that is racist and discriminates against ALL Whites? Is this really the logic behind your defense of AA? I've got news for you, people from ALL races can be racist. The fact of the matter is that college applicants pay money to be judged as individuals, and with literally a dozen legitimate attributes to be judged on, there is absolute no excuse why a racist system like AA should be used.
drj90210 7 months ago
@JayJ004 Your perception of how the system works is twisted. The vast majority of Whites who own businesses have made sacrifices, worked their @sses off, and made prudent investments: Nobody is given a business because they are White (this is a ridiculous premise). School/Jobs do NOT maintain a quota of Whites: This is pure nonsense and you have nothing to back this up. It seems that, like most supports of AA, you have a giant chip on your shoulder and many ill-feelings towards Whites.
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 No,majority of black businesses are denied to loans,that means white ppl ideas are better. Whites have 12xwealth than blacks due to inheritance.If that quota of whites is not true then why,schools like harvard has kept a "quota" of 90% white since 1960. Since 1930 98% of bank loans were given to whites to open businesses, own houses. Which were passed down to generation, then until FHA in 1962 was created. It wasn't maintained to be fair,in 2006 was the highest # of race discrimination
JayJ004 7 months ago
@JayJ004 Again, where is your evidence of your outlandish claims? You have absurd claims without any shred of evidence. I can't believe that you think that most Whites get their money from "inheritance." Yeah, all White folk are like Bruce Wayne and we all live the gigantic mansions. Even if this insane claim was true (which it certainly is not), how do you explain why Asians, Jews, and Middle Easterns should be impeded by AA, while Blacks and Hispanics unfairly benefit. AA is pure racism.
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 OK, how bout you research on the average wealth of the middle class white, and location where they live, then do the same for the avg wealth of the middle class black, and location. Ask your self why there are more whites, with more wealth and ask yourself, why are the difference so great and then say to yourself that because they are black and dum/stupid watever you may come to conclusion, or ask yourself do whites really work that much harder? Low income jobs generally is more work!
JayJ004 7 months ago
@JayJ004 No. That's not how debate works. If YOU put out figures, then it is up to YOU to back them up. I am not doing your research for you. Also, you continue to say ridiculous things like "low income jobs is generally more work." Yeah, I'm sure that a janitor works harder than a neurosurgeon...LOL! Where do you come up with this nonsense. High income jobs OBVIOUSLY require MUCH more training, education, and responsibility. Whites have the same opportunity to earn wealth as Blacks.
drj90210 7 months ago
@JayJ004 Let's use your "logic" and take a look at sports. By looking at the NFL, MLB, NBA, Olympics, marathon events,etc, it's clear that Blacks dominate major sports and comprise an overwhelming majority. Yet, Blacks make up a minority of the population. It is thus clear that Blacks have INHERITED good genes for sports. Therefore, would you agree in starting an affirmative action program for sports to even up the playing field for Whites, Middle Easterners, Asians, Jews, and other groups?
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 MLB? watever,1 reason why blacks are better in sports is because in slavery time they were bred like race horses. You sound stupid leveling the playing field, they are totally better in sports. Don't put whites in the same category as other minorities because they wouldn't agree to it, middle easterners in this country is looked at as though they were terrorist, jews as well(by the white community). Blk ppl in the low income areas(majority), only think they got a chance to play sports
JayJ004 7 months ago
@drj90210 Because of this institutionalized system, blacks schooling is far less funded than that of white schools, and due to more unfair things in society,blacks have statistically the worst outcome on life/"latinos" too. Do you kno why they label them as latinos/hispanics. Because majority of them have Native American blood in them, and if you label them what they are, then it entitles them to this land.Mexicans, lived here before whites, now they're immigrants and intruders? White privilege
JayJ004 7 months ago
@JayJ004 Your comments are entirely without basis. Your make-believe concept of "White Privilege" is as equally ridiculous as a concept of Black Privilege regarding professional sports. Also, YOU are the one labeling people into groups: Not me. I, on the other hand, believe that people should be judged by the content of their character, as Dr. MLK believed. Applicants pay hard-earned money to be judged as individuals with their own personal accomplishments, and not merely members of a group.
drj90210 7 months ago
@drj90210 But what your not understanding, when your black you don't get judged by the content of you character, but by race. Dr. MLK believed in Affirmative Action. So your wrong. White people been getting affirmative action for years, while blacks/minorities were shyt on. Now we're living on that legacy for the most part. I no longer want to discuss this with you because I'm just going to repeat myself. Open your eyes, you just don't want to believe because you're white.
JayJ004 7 months ago
You can't win after what Tim Wise said lmfao.
And that black guy looks like he was paid off to be FOR ending affirmative action.
Jebusjoose 1 year ago
He talks like a weirdo...open ya mouth and speak!
Spoon1914 1 year ago
1 word for this man....BOULE
mshandmaiden 1 year ago
lol, he said jigger, :P
LessonSmith 1 year ago
blablablabla... white noise.
ScarletandCreme32 1 year ago
AMEN !!!!!
diqblaq 1 year ago
affirmative action is racist and a broken system
SanguineBullet667 1 year ago 2
Affirmative action is racist: PERIOD!! It is obvious that it should be outlawed. None of these bloviating morons during this debate have been able to contest this fact. Judging someone based on the color of their skin is indeed "racist," by the very definition of that word. I hope someday that once we have a leader in this country who is not an absolute idiot and coward, that this disgusting system will be outlawed.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210 Actually, affirmative action is designed to try to counter racism. To try to gain equality. Countering the white affirmative action of the past hundreds of years. A lot of people don't like that term, equality. It's usually because the overprivileged don't feel their own privilege and so think that they have to be victims of discrimination. Or, that the underprivileged refuse to acknowledge their situation as such, because it feels like they're admitting inferiority.
loewenclass 1 year ago
@loewenclass It was DESIGNED to counter racism, but has since developed into a racist system itself. Real EQUALITY is putting everyone on an equal field and having them judged EQUALLY: Affirmative action prevents this from happening. Who cares if some Whites were advantaged many generations ago? What do those people have to do with adolesent students applying to college today? Why should these high school White kids have to suffer for someone else's wrongdoing? This makes no sense to me.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Real "Equality" is an imaginary concept which cannot be defined, nor implemented.
chica476 1 year ago
@chica476 That's a little bit pessimistic, wouldn't you say? Equality certainly is not imaginary: It is real and should be aspired for. In order to acheive it, all we have to do is end racist systems such as affirmative acting. Will there still be racist individuals with power? Of course, but at least we can end a culture of systematic racism, such as those policies of affirmative action, that are a plague in our universities and businesses. This will be a huge step towards MLK's dream.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Fact: A white criminal is far more likely to get a job than a black person with out one if everything is else is equal. I am sure you are ok with that .
Fact: if your name sounds black you are far less likely to get job as a person with a white sounding name. But I am sure you are ok with that .
White women are the group that are helped out the most by Affirmative Action than any other group . yet you complain that it helps black people .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth Show me evidence that white criminals are more likely to get jobs than black criminals who committed equal crimes. If you can't, then you're just BSing.
White women ARE unfairly advantaged by AA, and I believe this is EQUALLY as wrong as unfairly advantaging Blacks, so please insert your foot in mouth. I never complained that AA only helps Blacks, so stop putting words in my mouth.
AA is wrong: PERIOD. There is no justification for such a racist system in this day and age.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
I already told you what to look up to find that information . It is the first thing you get to using Google.
They fact the even after you said it helps white women you still call it racist speaks volumes . And also the reason they it is not wrong is for the reason I already listed. in this world black people are already handicapped and you want them to be disadvantaged even more .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth THAT'S NOT HOW DEBATE WORKS!! You can't just say "look it up." If you have a serious allegation, then this allegation demands that YOU provide serious evidence to back it up. Get to work....
Just because white women are helped, doesn't mean that AA isn't an unfair and racist system. Black people are NOT "handicapped!" This is insulting to both Blacks and those who are truly physically or mentally handicapped. Grow up and wise up.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
THAT IS HOW DEBATE WORKS!, here . Since you can not link articles here, I gave you the NAMES of specific articles, and the exact location to where you can find them.
Also Handicapped has an wider manning than what you are thinking about .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
This debate is interesting. I think the debate could have been much more fruitful if the organizers had requisitioned Thomas Sowell for the pro motion.
That said, Stephen Levitt noted that "ghetto black" names like "deshawn" to employers could just as easily signal a disadvantaged background and, thus, unreliability. Tim Wise says that qualifications are controlled for, but quite frankly resumes are very unreliable, 50% of them contain lies.
migkillertwo 1 month ago
@migkillertwo
That excuse is only trading racism in for classism, and by in large African-Americans are in the lower classes .
Joeybsmooth 1 month ago
Call it "classism", but crimes require mens rea, and unless someone has an overt, unjustified bias against lower classes, it's not a crime.
The fact is, and this is indisputable, that employers, justifiably, do not think of workers from lower class "ghetto" neighborhoods as reliable. That they are in such neighborhoods and in the lower class is incidental.
migkillertwo 1 month ago
Although that said, Tim Wise has stated, unequivocally, that racism is designed to disguise class-ism. I don't think that's true (Jews in America, Armenians in Turkey, other so-called "middleman minorities started out in grinding poverty), but if it really is a disguise for classism, why not have affirmative action based on class instead of the secondary category (and problem) of race? Should a black kid from an affluent neighborhood with rich parents be given higher priority over a white kid...
migkillertwo 1 month ago
...from that same neighborhood? Absolutely not.
migkillertwo 1 month ago
@migkillertwo
It is not classism is is a assumed classism, people will assume black people are of lower class than white people no matter what. That is why cops pull black people over driving nice cars.
Joeybsmooth 1 month ago
It's sad, but frankly these facts are simple reflections of statistical realities: Blacks, especially those from low-income, high-crime neighborhoods, are more likely to commit crimes of every sort and are more likely to be unreliable employees.
Take one black person you don't know, roll the dice, it is a simple fact that he's more likely to exhibit the traits described above.
migkillertwo 1 month ago
@Joeybsmooth 'cops pull over black people with nice cars', is a pretty vague and anecdotal peace of evidence to make your point. Moreover, even if we are to accept this as a statistically valid phenomenon it's still quite a stretch to basically go 'Cops target black people/assumed classism '- ergo we need a system of racial policies in which an upper-middle class black kid is seen as more disadvantaged than an impoverished white kid.
marx7555 1 month ago
@marx7555
It is not just that, it is a lot of stuff beyond that, a white person with a criminal recorded would get a job over a black person even if everything else was the same .
thesocietypages [Dot] org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/
If you have black name you are less likely to get a job no matter how good you are.
web.mit [Dot] edu/newsoffice/2003/resume.html
And more white kids get in to college who under perform more than anyone else.
Joeybsmooth 1 month ago
@drj90210
You have the gall to talk about MLK's Dream while you try to take away the only thing that comes close to evening things. Black people still have a harder time even when they are qualified, and you want to act as if white people did not have there Affrimtive Action for close to 200 years.
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth I have the RIGHT to talk about MLK's dream, because my dream is the same: To obtain equality. Affirmative action is the opposite of equality. It is an abhorant RACIST system that only serve to further segregate us. There is no evidence whatsoever that "balck people still have a harder time" so please stop with this BS. Even if such an "white affirmative action" existed, so what? Should we punish Whites today for advantages that other Whites had 200 years ago? Sounds racist.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
First I have shown your where white people are advantaged , and learn some history, black people we still facing government mandated racism in the late 60s . And slavery was still alive and well 150. So I do not get why you have to say from something that happen 200 years ago .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth No, you HAVEN'T. Stating that SOME White people were "advantaged 150 years ago" has NOTHING to do with ALL White people TODAY! My family, myself, and the families of 99% of Whites today did not advantage from slavery AT ALL! Why don't YOU learn some history moron, but first learn to use some logic and common sense.
So because SOME Blacks were facing racisim in the 1960s, we should punish ALL Whites TODAY? Is this really your argument?! Absolutely racist and idiotic.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Wow you talk about how debate works when all you use are straw man. And to the fact that you shown time after time that you do not have a understanding of history please do not ask me to learn about history .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth No straw man here. I think you should look up the work "straw man" in a dictionary before you use it. That way you won't make yourself look like a fool.
I majored in US history in college jackass, so I think I know a little bit. Wise up PLEASE.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Now what you are doing is called appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy. You have shown that your knowledge of US history is questionable as most .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth Bogus. It was you who insulted my knowledge 1ST. I just proved that I am indeed VERY knowledgable. This is not "appeal to authority.," Its called DEBATING and defending a point.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Just wow, you have shown with your lack of understanding of US history that you are not an authority. There for trying too prove you are right by citing that you have a degree in US history does not carry much weight.
By the way I hold BAs in History and Political Science. Given your logic I would be more knowledgeable on this subject only based on that.
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth More empty insults from you and nothing but filler. Get back to me when you have someone worthwhile for me to read.
I could care less about your bull$hit Bachelor degrees, since you have only proven your ignorance here.
The reference to my major in US history was to defend myself against your insults. For instance, you wrote to me, "You do not have a understanding of history ." I could not let this go unchallanged, hence the reference to my major.
drj90210 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth
And stop derailing this conversation talking about your "qualifications" You where to lazy to go were I told you for proof. So I posted them, you need to look at them fast before they are removed .
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth Listen moron, I'm not "derailing" anything. I'm DEFENDING myself against your baseless insults. It's is YOU who is "too lazy" to provide actual evidence. I debunked the nonsense study and article you to me to read (see my prior post). The 1st source relies on a survey of CRIMINALS for its data (e.g. the study relies on the honesty of criminals for its data), and even the author acknowledges this as a flaw. The 2nd source is not a study, but a brief description of a study.
drj90210 1 year ago
@drj90210
Even after showing proof to back up my statements you still wish to say it not ok. Using the the defense that something is a depiction of a study is a laughable . And to top that off she was not rely on criminals, there was a control group tested. But as someone already stated no matter what people show you are still going to turn a blind eye to what is going on. I am done with you . I have gone pass the standards of proof . And I see I am wasting my time.
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth My whole point is that you DID NOT PROVE JACK! I easily debunked those "studies." The 2nd link was indeed an online magazine's brief description of a study, and not a real study. This does not impress me. I need to be able to review a REAL study (e.g. Intro, Methods, Results, Conclusion, Conflict of Interest).
I'm not turning a "blind eye." I'm just waiting for some valid data to buttress your argument. So far, I'm not seeing any.
drj90210 1 year ago
Better look fast before they are gone
thesocietypages org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/
web.mit edu/newsoffice/2003/resume.html
Joeybsmooth 1 year ago
@Joeybsmooth Thank you for EXTREMELY biased data (Soros Foundation and Joyce Foundation funded). It makes it that much easier to debunk. The 1st "study" involved a survey methodology (already weak data) that invovles ex-CRIMINALS answering questions regarding employement. Even the author had her doubts on the honesty of these criminals.
The second source involved an story without any methodology section or study for me to review. Do you have the study upon which this excerpt was based?
drj90210 1 year ago
@loewenclass The logic of affirmative action plainly makes no sense. Here's the "logic": Because Black people were mistreated by SOME Whites many generations ago, we should punish White students and job-seekers today? It's the same as stating, "If Person A was wronged by person B, we can acheive justice by having Person C have an advantage over Person D." Does this really make sense in your head?
drj90210 1 year ago
Who won?
ArielFromOverThere 1 year ago
@ArielFromOverThere obviously the anti-affirmative action man
SanguineBullet667 1 year ago
I heard Tim Wise is a chronic masturbator and closet pedophile. Any truth to that?
Entropy56 1 year ago
@Entropy56 I heard that ad hominem attacks aren't a logical agrument, and are usually used by hopeless folks who've just been fucking PWND and don't know what to do with themselves. Any truth to that?
loewenclass 1 year ago
@loewenclass I heard SAT tests are a fraud perpetrated by white folks to keep blacks down because of penis envy. Any truth to that?
Entropy56 1 year ago
@Entropy56
Penis Envy is a Freudian/Jungian social architecture which states that young girls are jealous of young boys due to the fact that they lack a penis... are you a black nationalist by any chance?
chica476 1 year ago
@loewenclass Which explans why Asians with tiny penises score well on the SAT. Any truth to that?
Entropy56 1 year ago
Even though minorities were oppressed. Thomas Sowell writes that 5 years prior to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, black gains in employment and education were actually higher than 5 years after. Black progress in employment and education was a long-standing trend from the WWII era, almost 2 decades before the 1964 law, and before the era of affirmative action in the mid 1970s. The black problem that we see today actually happen during the the 70s, not before the civil rights era.
daming209 1 year ago
Obamas mediocre grades at Occidental College did not merit admission into Colombia, where his mediocre grades should have precluded admittance to Harvard Law School, where he was artificially thrust to the lead the Harvard Law Review, where he became the first leader NOT to write editorial pieces. Obama was given such privileges without proven merit.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
This guys speaks like Mr Smith in the Matrix. Thumb up if you agree - with me, necessary him :-)
mporokoso 1 year ago
I bombed the SAT, I have a 3.7 in College.... explain please....
leejay202 1 year ago
3. Did Kenyans or the Irish suffer most from colonial occupation and oppression?
4. Should the children of foreign nationals get racial preferences at all, especially since Obamas East African father holds little genetic information in common with American blacks, who are West Africans?
islandmuffin 1 year ago
Comment removed
GreenTreeFrog 1 year ago
Too funny: "I didn't get my one minute warning"
x71u9 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes, I think it is high time that we now give up on blacks. Someone should say once and fo all that blacks are really inferior to other races in every way, and that there is really no hope for them. They are only good as slaves, nothing more. I will never sign up for a black doctor or dentist, nor will enroll in a class taught by a black teacher.
DaveFoster143Records 1 year ago
Mc WHORE tor is a slave in search of a plantation.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
Both of Obamas parents were well educated, including his Irish/American mother and Kenyan father, a foreign national:
1. Why do you believe Obama was admitted into those competitive universities with such a poor academic record?
2. Who was oppressed most, (1) Obama, (2) his Irish/American mother or (3) Obamas Kenyan father?
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin Your Philosophy reads like a classic Libertarian. I have no problem with it. I agree with every aspect of it in theory. The problem arises when theory bangs up against reality. The reality is that The USA was founded on a very different philosophy. The USA was founded on a philosophy rooted in the idea of Global White Supremacy. From DAY ONE Native Americans where exterminated and Africans classified as less than human and considered 3/4 of a person. Women had no right to vote.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 When I read Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, or any of The Founding Fathers, I fail to see anywhere their words agree with your assessment.
Therefore, it is your biased hatred of them that clouds your world view.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin The White American system of Chattel Slavery is unique in Human History. Every other form granted the enslaved person a way out, provided they met certain criteria or fullfilled certain obligations. People as property is a White American Concept. It's documented fact that some of the founders were Slave Owners. Jefferson fathered children with an Enslaved African named Sally Hemmings.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 Yes. But Asians, Natives, Hispanics also get AA preferences.
Portugal invited modern slavery, but Brazil does not seek AA.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin Asians and Hispanics should not get AA preferences. They are here on their own. They should deal with whatever challenges come their way just like all the rest. Natives land was stolen and tens of millions slaughtered, Africans were prisoners of war. AA is a miniscule price to pay. Regardless of who invented it, Whites participated in it. Brazils policy has nothing to with US policy. The Slaves was promised 40 acres and a mule as compensation for slavery but never received it.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 just because something is right does not mean it works...AA at least in education has been shown to be a disaster for Afri Amer students. Every single black student who got into an elite school under AA would of still got into a regular school without it, the only difference is that a lot of those students ended up flucking out or doing badly, where if they went to the school they matched with they would of excelled and went on to grad school to phd's
mavinga 1 year ago
@mavinga I'd rather stick with what is right. I'd like you to point out a study that suggest Affirmative Action has been a disaster for Black students. I know for a fact that White students have been getting Affirmative Action benefits since the founding of the republic. Now when Blacks get a fraction of what is owed to us Whites want to cry foul.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@islandmuffin The founders practiced complete and total hypocrisy. The idea of Enslaved Africans being considered less than human was enshrined in the various founding documents. They supported the institution of Slavery. They hated Africans for no reason except the color of their skin. Whites have been waging Unjust wars of aggression against Africans for hundreds of years without cause.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 Haiti has been free for 200 years, and has regressed.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin The US toppled Jean Bertrand Aristide in a Coup and exiled him to South Africa. He has wanted to return to Haiti since then. Especially since the earthquake. The people have demanded it. Instead the US installed a puppet dictator in Preval. A former waiter that worked in New York. France, The US and Canada have meddled in Haitian affairs since independence. France extorting $21 Billion in exchange for their continued independence.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@islandmuffin I'm stating facts of history. Since when does stating facts of history equals hatred for those responsible for creating the situation to which I speak? What have I said to give you the impression that I hate the founders?
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 Saw the video.
Nixon did not make Africa fail.
Even if whitey thinks it, Africa does it.
Success requires self responsibility.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin Whitey is not only thinking it, they are active participants in bringing the failure about. Whites are waging war on Africans as we speak. The staging of Coup de'tats is an act of war. Assassinating and undermining the leadership is what is causing Africa to fail. Unjust trade laws and US subsidizing American farmers distorts and disrupts developing African economies. It's cheaper for Africans to buy US rice than local rice.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@islandmuffin It's been an uphill battle since then to create a free and fair society in which every American has an equal chance at achieving prosperity. The reason it's been an uphill battle is because White Males consolidated economic and political power in every sphere of human endeavor business, education, politics, etc. The reality renders your philosophy obselete.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@islandmuffin 1) I don't know what his academic record is. I thought his records were sealed. 2) Neither is a White Male so I'm guessing they all suffered oppression to varying degrees. 3) Ireland was never Colonized so of course it would have to be Kenyans. Ethiopia and Liberia were the only African Nations to never be colonized as far as I know. 4) Whites discriminate based on skin color not genetics. Thus even foreign nationals children suffer when they shouldn't.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 We know for a fact that Obama never made honors so his GPA was less that 3.3 at Occidental and Columbia. How much less we do not know because he sealed and hides his records.
North Ireland is still colonized.
Black Africans hunted reddish skinned bushman to near extinction.
It was most common to enslave other races before black slavery was institutionalized.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin What does Obama's transcript have to do with anything? Even if he had a 1.00 GPA, that has nothing to do with his winning the election. The people cast thier votes based on his position on the issues. Not his report card. All Africans are Black Skinned. Skin color based clashes never existed in Africa. Any conflicts that existed was based on Tribal affiliation. The existence of Slavery throughout human history never evolved into Chattel Slavery. That is a White American Creation.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 Without Affirmative Action Obama would not have been in position to run.
islandmuffin 1 year ago
@islandmuffin What does affirmative action have to do with winning a public office? Bush benefitted from affirmative action based on legacy traditions at Yale. His daddy went so they made it possible for the son to attend. Its Yale tradition. The world agrees he's far dumber than Obama.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 yes but being white dosnt give you legacy tradition at yale. If that is the issue then affermative action shgould be based on something other then race.
AEVautomatic 1 year ago
@AEVautomatic The Michigan Supreme court ruled that Affirmative Action should be narrowly tailored to meet a specific injustice. That injustice should be The enslavement of Africans for over 200 Years. Attorneys arguing for Affirmative Action based on race is making a huge mistake. Blacks end up fighting for every minority entering the country. Mexicans and Asians end up benefiting off of Black suffering.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ResearchKnowledge123 @ResearchKnowledge123 "Everyone else is here on there own free will." Sounds like you are being held by some physical restraint!? Being a part of the "Everyone else" group, I'm free. I would like to help free you from your current predicament. Do I need to bring a bolt cutter? Maybe a shovel, to dig you out? Or a rope, so you can climb up? I really want to help. By the way the "there" in your quote should be "their"
KYPopskull 1 year ago
@AEVautomatic I agree with you 100%. Affirmative Action should be based on something other than race. It should be based on the systematic enslavement and disenfranchisment of African Americans, and African Americans only. We are the only non-immigrant group in the US. Everyone else is here on there own free will. Therefore they should deal with the hardships just like every other immigrant.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 I don't think you know what an immigrant is. You are a non immigrant group member if you didnt immigrate here. It dosn't matter what your ansestors did. Look up the word immigrant once. Everyone is here of their own free will this is not a prision. People were enslaved all over the place. People were hung stabbed raped beaten tourtured killed in wars all over the place in the past.
AEVautomatic 1 year ago
@AEVautomatic Stop complicating the issue. The facts of history are clear. Africans were prisoners of war. Forcibly brought here against their will by Europeans. Them and their descendents are therefore non-immigrants. That is the basis under which Affirmative Action and or reparations should be granted. To say that we are free to leave has zero bearing on the facts related to determining if reparations or affirmative action are warranted.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
@ResearchKnowledge123 "Everyone else is here on there own free will." Sounds like you are being held by some physical restraint!? Being a part of the "Everyone else" group, I'm free. I would like to help free you from your current predicament. Do I need to bring a bolt cutter? Maybe a shovel, to dig you out? Or a rope, so you can climb up? I really want to help. By the way the "there" in your quote should be "their"
KYPopskull 1 year ago
@KYPopskull Your point being? The issue this video addresses is whether Affirmative Action is warranted. I and others argue Yes Indeed! Because Africans and her descendents were brought here against our will. My ability to leave has zero bearing on the historical crime and atrocity committed against Africans and her descendents. So if you have a relevent point to make please make it. Otherwise don't waste my time.
ResearchKnowledge123 1 year ago
I disagree with the diversity arguments he makes. A diverse university allows one to learn more about others and to grow as a peron. Sure if you are a math student perhaps diversity is not pertinent to the subject but in social science classes such as Sociology, Political Science, etc. it is VERY important because you learn from these students about their experiences for being of a certain race, ethnicity and gender etc.
sixchick123 1 year ago
It is unfortunate that you quantify diversity with race and ethnicity. Why is there no attention paid to black pop-culture that drives much of the negative opinions are held against blacks ? They are self evident. Equal treatment based on merit is all that is fair regardless of color. Preferential treatment is just that, preferential, and is racist. This is basic logic. AA creates excuses for failure and promotes black america to feel as tho they are inadequate. AA hurts, it does not help.
hatchls1 1 year ago
did I hear him correctly when he said "I don't think it helps black students to be the best they can be"... can somebody explain fhat for me?
antqui11 1 year ago
He's talking more generally. He's referring to the fact that when a black student performs well in a mixed race school - that person is shunned by his black peers for 'acting white' as it doesn't fit with black people's 'victim status'.
This issue is the focus of his book "Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America".
It's all about how an addiction to underdog status (a holdover from the affirmative action era) causes blacks to turn their backs on pursuing a proper education.
BPL1980 1 year ago
it believe he meant to say that comparing black students to legacy students or being accepted to uiversties for which their score did not qualify them does not help them to be there best.... at least i think thats what he meant
15CenterMass 1 year ago
what is a diverse person?
kuongjah7 2 years ago
.....why did Mr. Mcwhorter limit the experience of diversity on campus to a person being called upon in class to give his/her perspective on an issue (as if this person fully represents the ethnic background of his/her people!).
It's important as humans that we get to know each other and learn from each other. WTF is he talking about? such an uncle Tom in the since that he doesn't see the importance of diversity in top universities.
He freakin taught at my school last decade too (UC Berkeley)
tonylove16 2 years ago
Probably to stop ethnic superiority. UC Berkeley is a very hostile intolerant school.
1337bard 2 years ago
@1337bard
UC Berkeley is hostile but it's not intolerant. I've met very few people who have had to hide their true selves to fit in. However, as a result, they may not fit in so much because of this.
That's why I'd describe the environment here as hostile too.
tonylove16 1 year ago
"The lower the score, the more likely the person was to graduate"....."that suggest that SAT score do mean something" lol
Go sit down somewhere. 3:35-3:39
TheDivineLife 2 years ago
He's absolutely right, playing with statistics to artificially increase minority representation does NOTHING to address the underlying problem (not the disparity gap) but the educational gap.
And placing any student in a cirriculum beyond their capabilities does more harm than good, at the cost of displacing a student otherwise capable of filling those placements.
Phule213 2 years ago
i would love to hear you say some of these things directly to my face so i can break that fuckin beak you call a nose in 5 places. "you may as well say what's wrong with lynching, burning and skinning people alive." imagine if i were to sit here and say "what's wrong with calling white people smelly dog animals that rape their children?" it's clear from your comments that you have some very serious psychological and emotional problems. please seek help animal.
FuckUtube2008 2 years ago
"I don't think that it helps black students to be the best that they can be"??????
eyadayesh 2 years ago
nobody complains about how non diverse a nation like China is where over 90% of the people are 1 ETHNIC GROUP, not just Asian but just one Chinese ethnic group that makes up over a billion people in this world, but yet countries like England with over 90% white population is somehow not diverse when it has DOZENS of ethnic groups making up that majority of white people.
the hypocrisy is laughable and racist entirely against white people in this world.
ultimatetalesfan19 2 years ago
lol. you've got to be the biggest joke on youtube. you're comments and so-called logic is so absurd it's laughable. that's all. i'm not even going to waste my time debating rationally with a clearly irrational and unstable person. lmfao.
FuckUtube2008 2 years ago
unfortunately you can't see how much of joke you are and the numerous idiots like you.
just because I hold a position in this debate that you couldn't possibly comprehend, doesn't make me or my logic a joke.
ultimatetalesfan19 2 years ago
My bad. I meant McWhorter. I really messed that up!...lol
laffytaffygreen 2 years ago
Also, I didn't hear Dr. Whorton, or John C. Phillips offer an alternative mechanism that can bridge the racial disparity gap in admissions for top universities.
laffytaffygreen 2 years ago
@laffytaffygreen
There is no mechanism...they are simply saying that it has to happen on it's own. There shouldn't be an outside force that bridges this gap..the diversity will improve. You have to believe and have faith in our educational system and have faith that the gap will lessen because there are very smart people out there, many who are minorities, and those people do not need any assistance. The gap will close give it time
engstormTD21 2 years ago
hmmm sounds like the type of excuse of they gave to not deal with slavery or segregation for so long. neither of which were dealt with until FORCED to do so.
nuumskee 2 years ago
No. Segregation and slavery were clearly two physical tools of oppression. Blacks were LEGALLY prevented from enjoying the same rights and privileges as whites and were dying because of it. FORCE, as you say, was necessary then.
Now, however, group level action is not appropriate. In fact group-mentality in black society is what is holding blacks down; underdog / victim status.
Blacks need to move away from seeing themselves primarily as part of a group to seeing themselves as individuals.
BPL1980 1 year ago
Thomas Sowell states prior to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, black gains in employment and education were actually higher than in the 5 years after. Black progress in employment and education was a long-standing trend from the WWII era, almost 2 decades before the 1964 law, and before the era of affirmative action in the mid 1970s. Black gains in education and employment after 1964 Sowell maintains, continued this established upward movement in the booming postwar economy.
daming209 1 year ago
He brings up interesting points. But, is he talking about causality or correlation? Maybe there are other reasons why black students that are admitted into law school may be failing, or in the bottom 10%. It could be the way they study, their access to study materials, and/or access to faculty. They could feel unwelcome, which would affect their emotional state. Studies have shown that group study outside of the class room and a support group helps a student of any race perform better.
laffytaffygreen 2 years ago
With a country as diverse as America, how can we enforce this? Most people are some combination of races.
jarrbear05 2 years ago
No, most people are combinations of ethnicities. Everyone can only be one race.
Remember that race and ethnicity are different.
OmorosePanya 2 years ago
White history month??? Are you serious?? Do you realize that kids are taught WHITE history in schools? Do you even understand the term ethnocentric?
2ooCoolakaLADG 2 years ago
He never made a point, rhetoric as it's worst, i wonder does he ever both to hear his self speak and gives a darn what he says, he is so lost or he is just a foolor he's a waste of his own imagination
xanmere 2 years ago 2
correction on my post----both(er)--- lost or he(s)
xanmere 2 years ago
@xanmere
Compared to whom? Did you watch the whole debate? Mcwhorter actually cited specific examples of how affirmative action has had a negative effect such as the UC San Diego example (by the way that example was typical of many UC schools following the ban it was not an isolated instance). Nobody who was speaking in favor of affirmative action gave even one example of an instance when an affirmative action program led to positive results.
limited1defined 1 year ago
fight racism with racism?
bushwickbill112 2 years ago