Mormon / Evangelical Debate - Tanner / Wallace - Part 3 of 3

[certainlytruthful]

MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!

I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!

Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”

[blakodeel]

Alma 7:10 in BOM says Christ was born in Jerusalem and 2 Nephi 25:23 directly contradicts Romans 11:6

[diesbl]

Dr.(?) Tanner strains at a gnat and swallows a camel! Of course he sees "error or changes made" when he reads Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not." He doesn't believe Lord, Jesus, and God the Father are one in the same. He (Mormons) do not believe in the Godhead. They belive in the godhood. Big difference!

[diesbl]

I bet Joseph Smith bought some bridges back in his day! He was a con artist before he wrote his BOM and the rest and people believe him?

[diesbl]

It's amazing how Tanner claims the KJV is corrupt and incomplete because "man" corrupted it down through the ages and yet he takes a book that was written by a man in the 1800's as being authentic and complete and the gospel truth? What does he base his "facts" on, other than a lunitic that claimed he saw God and Jesus and on some angel that supposedly gave him some gold plates to write his BOM "Bible" from?

[valegorn]

To sum up this debate, Tanner = short precise to the point answers, Wallace = wind bag/ religious rhetoric.

[godswordsheal]

@valegorn I think you mixed up the names.

[valegorn]

@godswordsheal Nope! I'm spot on. Its pretty obvious the Evangelical is there to preach while the Mormon dude is trying to explain his beliefs.

[godswordsheal]

@valegorn Good job! I'm sure your comment will trick a few lazy people who don't watch the video...but if they watch it...

[valegorn]

@godswordsheal THANKS!!!!! But I'm not trying to trick anybody, just post my opinion. Although I'm pretty sure anybody with half a brain will come to the same conclusion after watching this. This whole idea of arguing with Mormons is silly to me, as far as I'm concerned they are good people who try their best to live God's word (as they believe it). I'd be more interested in a debate with a Buddhist or Hindu, not a Mormon. But then again some people just love to argue....

[godswordsheal]

@valegorn Whenever two people have differing opinions on a subject the peaceful and intelligent thing to do is debate. I'm sure both debaters hoped that by participating that they could help someone who is confused or unsure about the topic to see the viewpoints head to head. Undoubtedly, the Christian preacher thinks that Mormons are following a man-made gospel, whereas the Mormon thinks that Christians don't have the full gospel.

[valegorn]

@godswordsheal I couldn't agree more, on all your points.

[diesbl]

@valegorn You use the word argue interchangeably with the word debate. There is a difference in these words. Mormons are so good at using the term "argue/arguing" when those of us are trying to point out error in their teachings and claims. We are commanded Jude 1:22,23 "And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Good people don't go to Heaven...Saved people go to Heaven.

[valegorn]

@diesbl Don't read too much into my use of the word argue. To me all a debate is is just an argument with a mediator. But that's my view.

I think its funny how people know beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone else's religion is wrong, and as you say it, "point out the error in their teachings". Just because they don't believe in every single thing as you do doesn't mean their wrong, I'm sure someone could say the same about you.

[diesbl]

@valegorn Just as bad people don't go to Hell...Unsaved people go to Hell. Jesus Christ tells us to warn those that are in error and to beg them to get saved.

[valegorn]

@diesbl I'd have to agree with the Mormons on this one, regardless of if you were saved or not, you will still have to answer to God for all the good and bad you've done in your lifetime. I think this concept of "I'm saved so I can do whatever I want cuz I'm going to heaven regardless" is stupid and naive. Just because you believe in Christ and accept him as your savior doesn't me you have a get into heaven free card. If you know better but still sin, you'll have to answer for that.

[mbhotie715]

As usual, an lds wont discuss our sinful nature but the pastor mentions it throughout. This is a huge problem with Lds and the smug attitude in the lds man here is typical in the lds church. I should know. I was lds for years. The prideful members attitudes eventually got to me. I sensed something was missing which was the grace of Jesus Christ. Hearing "i know this, i know that" every week among lds members does nothing for our hearts. We have to realize its not about us, its about Jesus.

[awolLDSasap]

What a deceitfull comments made by Tanner. Behind closed doors at the lds church there is mocking and contempt for Christianity.

[sherin119]

The church is made up of men and women that are not perfect, and therefor mess up. It is possible that a person may have said an off color remark, but so what! Who cares! Evangelicals can say ridiculous things to Mormons and other way around. God lives, the book of Mormon is true and modern day Christianity has major holes in it. We have a restoration with the right priesthood. Read the book of Mormon. I have and it is true.

[awolLDSasap]

You're right about men and women not being perfect. No one is worthy to God, not even your prophets.

I have read the Bookofmormon as well as many thousands of people that have come to a different conclusion.

It never came from God. It is a man made theology. It has changed the nature of God and called the word of God corrupt.

It is "another gospel" delivered by an angel of light.

[sherin119]

Thank you for identifying yourself as just a nay sayer that doesn't know what they are talking about. "(Book of Mormon) called the word of God corrupt". Complete nonsense. You are right about changing the nature of God though. The trinity is a made up theology.

[awolLDSasap]

What I meant to say is the lds gospel has called the word of God corrupt. I wasn't talking about the trinity either.

Joseph Smith turned the infinite God of Israel into "an exhalted man". Joseph turned Jesus Christ into "a brother of Satan". These are blasphemies.

[awolLDSasap]

Have you read the Bible? Where in the Bible does it say pray to about it to see if it is true?

[sherin119]

uhhh. Dude, are you kidding me? What does the spirit of God do? How do we receive the spirit of God. Read the 2nd chapter of 1st Corinthians (9-14), Romans 8:16 (My favorite), James 1:5. I mean come on man. How else are supposed decipher spiritual truth? The bible goes on and on about prophets and apostles receiving the spirit of prophecy. We can receive our own revelation that the book of Mormon is true; meaning that we are led once again by apostles of Jesus Christ. How do you know truth?

[awolLDSasap]

The first apostles are the foundation and Jesus is the cornerstone.

You don't rip out a foundation after it is set.

A foundation is the beginning form to built upon.

[awolLDSasap]

The Bookofmormon along with all lds doctrine must agree with the Bible or it is a false gospel.

Do you know of another religion where an angel of light appeared to present new scripture?

I know of only 2 religions. Islam and Mormonism. Both claim the only true books of scripture. Both claim they have the only true church / religion.

That alone should be a serious warning.

[sherin119]

Except Islam does not believe in Jesus Christ as the savior of all mankind, we do. There is no coercion with Mormons either, they go out two by two and preach Christ's gospel (Just like the bible says) and simply want you to hear the message and ask God about it. Islam is just a bit different.

[sherin119]

Also, is this not the model of how God works? Isiah's prophecy of the coming messiah, an angel of light announced his birth, the burning bush and Moses? Now that we are in the dispensation of the fullness of times (Eph. 1: 10) and after the falling away (2 Thes. 2: 3) would not God restore his priesthood, and endow a prophet in magnificent manor such as been done in the bible? Aren't you looking to the heavens waiting for a sign that the gathering of Israel is near? Why are you a fuddyduddy?

[awolLDSasap]

Did you forget, it is the New Testament that warns us about other gospels and angels of light? These angels you mention were NOT bringing in another gospel. They appeared to make announcements.

The Bible tells us Jesus is the high priest. There was no need to restore any priesthood. The priestood and temple work was finished. It all ended at the cross.

In Mormonism, "Jesus" and his sacrifice was never sufficient. YOu need laws, ordinances, priesthood and temples.

That is NOT Christianity.

[sherin119]

Did you see Pastor Wallace a the end of this video when he says that it is sad when Evangelicals shout "legalism" to every rules associated with Christianity. We are to have faith, repent, be baptized and be given the holy ghost (baptized with fire). This is not Christianity?

[sherin119]

What you don;t understand is that Jesus Christ is at the center of everything we do. There is no other name by which we can be saved. There are things that we will argue about all day long (Nature of God, Baptism, the Priesthood of God), but what is your personal problem with the church? Did a Mormon girl dump you or something?

[awolLDSasap]

No girl, no sin, nothing but the truth led me away. I was married in the Salt lake Temple in 1975 and still married. I no longer believe in Mormonism. I have seen first hand what the priesthood and the doctrines of Mormonism do to people. These doctrines have followed people into the grave wondering if they have done enough, or where they stand with God. Are your really worthy to God, or just worthy to your church? Keep seeking.

[sherin119]

Well I hope you have found happiness. I grew up in a baptist church and then went to a four square church. I converted to the restored church of Christ after I saw how the priesthood and restored teachings of Christ helped people reach their incredible new potential. After the spirit witnessed the truth to my heart I searched the scriptures and found that this church is true. I have also noticed that modern-day Christianity is distorted and contradictory.

[sherin119]

What you have said about spiritual rebirth is different from what I have heard other Christians say. As you know, our interpretation of spiritual rebirth is included in faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the holy ghost. This is a biblical teaching. Baptism is a covenant with Jesus to live his teachings, and follow his teachings. God loves everyone because we are all his children. He created all of us in his image and likeness, and we will never return to him without following Jesus.

[awolLDSasap]

I know very little about the Baptist church. Is a 4 square a Christain church?

Josephs new gospel has given men higher status to become gods, and God is not so terrible, contrary to what the Bible says.

Never forget that Jesus is the only important thing. Laws and ordinances will be straining and the word of wisdom, wise, but these will never allow anyone to live with God. It is only through his grace and not our works or worthiness.

[sherin119]

The bible says that faith without works is dead. We are saved by grace, but don't kid yourself about works they have their place. The scriptures are full of commandments on how to live our life, we must adhere to them the best we can. If a person is a thieve he must change his ways. He simply can not confess Christ and then continue stealing. How we run our lives matters, and it must be centered in Christ.

[awolLDSasap]

The apostle talking about "faith without works is dead", is talking to those who have been reborn in spirit. Faith, charity, kindness, humility are the works of the spirit. The work demanded of the lds church is true legalism. Laws and ordinances, home teaching, accept every calling, attend every meeting to name a few, are works propping up the church. "Busy work" This religion will rule your life and it will burn you out some day, or make you cry at every testimony meeting.

[sherin119]

All work preformed in the church embodies faith, charity, kindness, etc. Home teaching....make sure everyone is taking care of and all needs are met, the exact same thing with callings in the church. No Mormons do these things because man tells us too, We do these things to show faith, charity, kindness and humility. We want to make sure everyone is taken care of. Does your pastor visit you? If he does then what is the difference between that and home teaching?

[awolLDSasap]

If you want to go to the temple, you have to do all of these things.

[sherin119]

The temple interview is a few questions about your faith and moral standing with God. There is not one question about Home Teaching.

[awolLDSasap]

I know about the bishops interviews.

Have you fullfilled all of your callings, paid a full tithe, kept morally clean? There is a little bit of lying going on with the guys in every interview.

[sherin119]

Your argument is so silly (and baffling) I don't know where to begin. What you call "busy work" the savior called following him. Everything we do is in our best effort to emulate the savior. Home teaching is a great program that more churches should adopt in order to make sure everyone is cared for and to relieve the chores of just one man (Pastor)

[awolLDSasap]

Home teaching is a commandment of the church, not God. You will find that it is a nagging burden for the elders. For inactive members, home teachers are just snooping and annoying. For me, home teaching was BIG BROTHER watching everyone. You're a girl right? You have no idea what kind of a macho trip the priesthood creates. Some of these guys think they have power over everyone. I call it the army of Joseph Smith syndrome.

I will pray for you when they bring back polygamy.

[awolLDSasap]

Go read "AN ADDRESS TO ALL BELIEVERS IN CHRIST" David Whitmer, 1887. He denounces polygamy, the priesthood and other heretical doctrines.

Polygamy? Emma was so hurt and embarrassed by the polygamy thing, she told her children it never happened. Later in life, Josephs 2 sons traveled to Salt Lake to debate Brigham and the brethren to prove once and for all, their father never practiced polygamy. The Smith boys left town failed and broken.

Brigham was no prophet. He was a law breaker and bully

[sherin119]

I think that if another Christian church adopted the same programs that the restored church uses you would be happy that they are striving to stay busy showing the true charity of Christ. How is a good mormon not showing Faith, Charity, kindness, humility in spirit? I still can't get over what you said. Wow. Complete ignorance.

[awolLDSasap]

I was baptized at 8 years old. I experience spiritual rebirth 42 years later. It was an amazing experience. It's kindof ironic that it happened in a ward parking lot. Since that time, I was driven to research church history and examine the difference between LDS doctrine and the Biblical gospel.

[awolLDSasap]

Spiritual rebirth is necessary. Baptism doesn't give you rebirth. Jason Wallace was right about many, "not all" Christians denying legalisms.

Mormonism promotes the idea that everyone is a child of God. The Bible says otherwise. Look into it. When you understand who God is, and where you stand with him, your eyes will be opened.

[awolLDSasap]

Josephs knew about Islam and incorporated it in his work.

"I would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that it would be one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, 'the Alcoran or the Sword,' so should it be eventually with us.

Joseph Smith or the Sword.

[sherin119]

I hear Evangelicals pound the pulpit that "knowing God is through a relationship not a religion" yet they are not listening to him. Evangelicals believe in prayer yet they can not understand how millions have read the awesome words in the Book of Mormon and received their own testimony of the divine Christ. Pray and he will answer. This is a biblical teaching. Don't kid yourself about archeological evidence. Faith precedes the miracle. Always!!

[awolLDSasap]

You have just denied the Biblical definition of faith. 1 part of faith must have evidence of things not seen"

Without some kind of evidence, you have blind faith.

[lilbeaveymac]

@sherin119 what holes does christianity have??

please tell,and be honest.

his blood alone is suffecient

[sherin119]

What happens when someone accepts Christ as their savior but continues to sin in their daily life? God cannot look upon sin so can saved Christians do what they want? What did James mean when he said Faith without works is dead? What happens to people who have died never hearing about Jesus? Does their "works" matter? What verse in the bible says that the current version and order of the books is approved by God? These are just some.

[lilbeaveymac]

@sherin119 everyone tyat accepts jesus is stilla sinner, whether its shawn mccraney or Monson himself..i dont care if you are a Mormon or a Muslim,you are still a sinner.maybe you andf your bishop may not think you are but by gods standards you are a sinner

jesus said just looking at a women with lust is committing adultery.

your works are like dirty rags.

the "faith without works" has to be taken into correct context.

just read romans 11:16.

[awolLDSasap]

Tanner is lying and whitewashing just like Hinkley did on national tv. He states that people are misconceived about Josephs comments about other Christain churches being an abomination to God.

Another slick willy.

[awolLDSasap]

If an angel, prophet or apostle comes with another gospel that changes or alters the gift of grace, "he will be damned"

[imtherealthing]

I like how Wallace AVOIDS the question on whether or not God can add to the Bible ...he waffles and in the end deos not answer the question. Why?..because the ONLY conclusion is that YES god can add more revelation if HE wants to..who is man to know the MIND of the LORD? For God's ways are not our ways. So, I find it unbelievable that Wallace has the gumption to deny God to do this...he knows that if he answers the question the ONLY way one can here..is to vindicate the LDS church.

[anselmiano]

By this I mean, I can conceive of Smith getting it right or better than protestants on certain theological issues, but that in no way means he is a prophet or received a special dispensation or a divine calling at all. He can still be a fraud. That the devil says "God is good" doesn't make it any les trus that God is good, but it doesn't make the devil any less the devil either.

[newtzilla]

I didn't know who was who at first until the Mormon started talking. It's funny how Mormons attack the authenticity of the scriptures but rely on the hearsay translation of a book that has no credible evidence of it's history.

[dietwater12345]

Because the Bible has credible evidence of it's history? Yeah...ok. This is what he is trying to expose, that people do not hold the two books to the same standard.

[acnemaster]

i am pretty sure you can go visit Jerusalem, find artififacts all through the holy land etc...but I don't think we have found evidence of these missing civilizations. Are the civs in the book of mormon supposed to be the Aztecs, Mayans etc....help a brother out.

[gary031183]

@newtzilla ha ha... and the bible is historically accurate. That is laughable.

[lilbeaveymac]

@gary031183 im a former bible basher of 27 years,it is legit and real

[gary031183]

@lilbeaveymac So you are a former believer and you are saying that t he Bible is legit and real (meaning true and historically accurate)??? huh? I really hope I read your post incorrectly.

Please clarify. And if you were serious about the bible being legit and real. Please provide proof of any of the core tenants of the bible.

(my fingers are crossed that I simply misunderstood your post)

[seanf4i]

this was awesome!

[pinkclimax]

Man, why pick such boring topics to debate if your going to do a debate like this.