i workd w HIC;/HLC: from 97-01 and i can tell u if it were not 4 leagle issuees the brothers wud hav made this a conscience matter (i.e. not valid 4 judical hearng ever) otherwise. w/ in this decade the soc will let it fade off but it does suck now esp 4 boys w hav zero contact w "THOSE takng the lead' among them. please realize things change and please b alive to look back on it.IF U WILL C W UR OWN EYES THERE WILL B OTHERS2COVER/HELP U.ITS OK &MANY R WAITING 2HELP U. WE ALL C
I don't think religion completely blinds you or makes you narrow minded all the way through. All and all the choices depend on the person the way they interpret the bible. Religious stupidity is breed by misconceptions of the BIBLE. I'm Christian, I say end game the choices depend on a person and what is considered the over all right and moral thing to do, that would to be to save a life. Point black, just saying, I'm not here to preach to no one.
sad....the blood of this young person is on the hands of the governing body..there are blood guilty.. how could they sleep at night! i'm 18 now but if this happened to me at 14 like him i would have to choice to die to. but know if i need a blood translation i would accept. i would donate blood to so someone could live
So,every devot jw thinks of me as "demonised"? How very...insulting,to be judged by those who halt their own growth, giving in to the fears of solitude and chaos.How pitiful...
You can't prove they wouldn't have died even if they HAD the transfusion- Jehovah knows what happened, they kept their INTEGRITY in the face of death, imitating the perfecter of their faith, Jesus Christ!! Jehovah certainly can give them their lives back, and they won't have to live in THIS wicked system of things, run by liars imitating THEIR father, satan the devil. There's a lot more going on in the real world, not this delusion created by satan! God knows exactly what you're doing, too.
what about abortions,you prob agree they kill 10s of thousands of babies,but thats ok ? dah,these did,nt have a chance to choose,so get a grip hypocrite
When we can charge children as adults in murder cases, we can take each child and decide, in a case by case basis, that they have the ability to make this decision.
Imagine Jesus Christ saying "i'd rather live", and then walking away from God's purpose.
Jesus knew what he had to do in order to remain faithful to God, and also, he knew there was a higher reward for his brave action. For this little fellow Lindberg, there was something more precious ahead, than just preserving his life. It takes a solid faith, a solid mind and lots of courage.
I went to school with this boy. He was honorable and loyal. But he wasn't born as a Witness he became one to live with his aunt. But because of his maturity, I don't think he could live with the guilt of taking the transfusion.
Why did he have to live with his Jehovahs witness aunt ? where were his parents ? did you ever ask him ? And where were they when he was "deciding " as a KID
Imagine Jesus Christ saying "i'd rather live", and then walking away from God's purpose.
Jesus knew what he had to do in order to remain faithful to God, and also, he knew there was a higher reward for his brave action. For this little fellow Lindberg, there was something more precious ahead, than just preserving his life. It takes a solid faith, a solid mind and lots of courage.
i personally knew him. we were really close in grade school. then i moved to a neighboring town and never saw him again. until one day my sister came home with a newspaper that said he was dead. the things they say are true. he was very mature and the fact that he made the decison not to take the blood transfusion was the most outrageous thing i ever heard. he had a successful life ahead of him and it was cut short due to religion. and i have family who are also jehovah's witnesses.
He died because his heart was enlarged. it would have put more pressure on his heart putting foreign blood in him, the blood could have been infected. And no one told him what to do it was all his decission. his real friends are proud for him standing up to what he beleived. he would not have been disfellowshipped if he decided to take blood. it was all his decission.
What a liar you are. The poor kid was brainwashed from birth to believe that if he took a blood transfusion, Jehovah would murder him at Armageddon and he wouldn't get to live in paradise on earth. The WTS is a sick cult that stands there and watches their members die needlessly by enforcement of this doctrine. The only reason they haven't dropped it is because they know they be sued for all the people that have died in the past for not taking a transfusion.
There's advantages to controlled studies. Google Bloodless Hospitals. They've been in existence for decades, and report no such catastrophic catastrophes, or this being between a rock and a hard place all the time with bloodless treatments. Only advantages.
I was in UCSF hospital in San Francisco, with my newborn, who had a heart defect. There was a young man and woman there, with their sick newborn, who also had a heart defect. They did not want their baby to have blood cause they were JWs. Even though, their baby would die without it. Thank the Lord the hospital got a court order to do it anyways.
Honestly I just don't like religion and think...(Best not to say XD)
but some people believe in it but don't always go by it. Such as people who would go and do a blood transfusion but still respect god. Or just believing in God. I don't have a problem with those kinda people. Or people that are really into religion but don't force it upon others. Currently now with Iraq and USA/UK all Christians V Muslim stuff. Or ...well have you even read the bible. Just so much hatred in that
It's the next thing to murder if a parent/partner won't allow a blood transfusion, and it's just brain washing. The poor lad didn't realise he had a choice to live and he wouldn't be punished afterwards. Of course he would still be accepted into heaven, be with his loved ones again that had passed, and indeed stayed on earth a good few more years with the loved ones still on our silly planet. How can people believe in this???
exactly, if you can go as far as saying if you choose to die on your own account because of a religion then why not just legalize euthanasia, in my opinion its no different...we can all make up false stories
I was faced with a blood decision 25 years ago. At the time, I was ABSOLUTELY certain that my decision was smiled on DIRECTLY by the creator of all things seen and unseen. When I couple some investigation of biblical text, as well as employing logic and reason, I should smack myself in the forehead, "WHAT THE HELL?!"
I agree with those that observed that THIS like much of what is prohibited by the WT, is a matter of conscience! Life and death prohibitions are an instrument of control.
My mother made the decision to not accept any blood fractions, which are considered a conscience matter by the GB. These fractions are what pass through the placenta to the baby from the mother, which are practically all components of blood. Nevertheless, they are derived from blood donations, which are a no-no for JW's.
Makes no sense, but I defend her right to deny certain treatment, and JW's are healthier because of it. Not only that, surgeons get to try new stuff on'em
thanks for the response Kenny, I appreciated hearing your mother's experience. With regard the Witnesses forging new paths into experimental surgery, et al, I applaud what is done in ANY new endeavor of scientific / medical research. You seem to agree with the core point(?) that for witnesses, anyone(!) should be free to make this or any decision based on their conscience.
Frankly, the world is a better place with hospitals that are committed to bloodless surgery......
The truth about every death of a JW in the hospital is that administration spun it's wheels trying to force blood on the individual rather than using the alternative treatment they agreed to practice when they accepted them into the hospital.
JW's are up front about their stance before admittance, so if some nurse or blood sales-rep decides to deny treatment without blood it is THEIR responsiblity when they refuse timely treatment. In essence, they are held hostage until they accept blood.
ken, each case is different. It isn't like the WT says. Not all are the same. The majority are emergencies that are not well thought out by JW's. That's why the kingdom ministry keeps telling them to be ready ahead of time. Since they won't do it they have the HLC to intervene. The hospital is for treatment, not hostage taking. Your simplistic view plays into the blood covered hands of the GB. They deal in half truths and emotionalism. Sorry but you are ill informed.
Actually, my simplistic view is caused by experience.
Once the hospital gets you behind closed doors you are dealing with individuals with differing views who may very well seek to deny you your right to medical treatment demanding compliance to the blood business that operates within the confines of their ICU's and nursing stations.
The act of giving blood is a religious experience for many non-JW's and they are thoroughly insulted by JW's who exercise their right to accept or deny it.
The governing body says you can have all the parts individually but not the whole. Hypocrisy. JW's do deny their kids necessary health care and cause their deaths because of trust in Jesus' brothers who could change their mind on this issue at the sound of a fart.
They are dying because the hospital tricks them into admittance, thinking they can force blood on them. As a result, the true cause of death is the failure to give treatment agreed upon from the start.
You make it sound like JW's hold their kids in a closet until the last second while they bleed to death, and suddenly show up in desperation with their child in an emergency room demanding "NO BLOOD!"
I bet you every single one of these children died in a hospital.
No child in need of care for a trauma is tricked into a hospital. They go there because they need medical attention. Children are pressured by their parents into making the "right" decision. Truly a sad and deadly situation.
No, they were not tricked into going to a hospital, and that is not what I was saying at all.
It only becomes deadly when hospital personnel decide to buck the "no-blood" agreement made upon admittance.
If they have no intention of honoring it, they should allow AND assist in relocating the patient. Many doctors will work on JW's and their children: likewise many doctors will not take a blood transfusion.
Do you think THEY would get timely accomodation for THEIR stance ?
@Truthbookblues Well played my man well played. JW's are perhaps the most ignorant people I have ever met. So much so that they are notorious in the public eye and media as comical.
Do your research. Blood transfusions are the cheapest and easiest anwer. There are medical advancements that cost the hopital more money so you don't hear of it. In several countries and states there are bloodless hospitals. Surgens who refuse to use blood because of contamination and infections. Go ahead, give your childern malaria and hiv. All the power to ya.
The testing was well beyond its infancy. The issue is choice. It's not some mystic divine subject here. A child of 14 has the perfect ability to see that God directs us not to partake of blood, you don't have to be a JW to be able to get that info.
You can even put aside their magazines on the subject. The issue is should you disobey God & be able to physically live for 80 yrs, more if you're lucky & have a dirty conscience because you disobeyed, or obey God, & if it comes about that you do die because you didn't receive blood come to him in heaven knowing that you have a clean conscience, or be able to live in paradise, what ever side of the fence you stand on with that?
And yes Forest we are all perfectly aware that there are risks in surgeries, very good job on bringing that point to light though. I think everyone in Youtube land is very proud of you. Let's go with that point, forget religion for now, why would you want to force something that has more risks than benefits? Besides AIDS there are countless other problems associated with blood transfusions.
I also lived near JW parents. Their son was in need of blood, but refused. The doctors went to the court system, the court sided with the doctors. The child ( 12 years old ) received the blood transfusion. The boy lived, but later found it was discovered that the blood was tainted with the AIDS virus, he died 14 months later. Already fighting an immune disorder, he lived 14 months in pain & sickness. So choosing not to have blood is a choice worse than death for a child? Try a new video.
with names they gave and not the parents because they they did not reconise them as theirs because of having blood to help them live. but they were buried as mentally nothing by their parents family's I don't this jw religion is a religion it is a cult and disturbing one too. I feel everyone person in the world is a gift from god these babys had no right to be treated this way by so called followers of god and jenhovah I wish doctors shld have the ultate right with authorities to force treatment
Daniel$305 - such a tragic story. Most states have laws protecting children but usually the courts and state must get involved to enforce the law and unfortunately this delays life saving medical care. Just depens on the hospital if they support Freedom of Religion. Cults are killers.
I live near where twins of jw parents lived and gave birth to them and the mother refused to have the transfusion and when the twins were born. The parents tryed to stop doctors from giving them blood after legal fighting the twins got the blood and the mother in the end died refusing blood also both twins died also for not getting the blood quick enough and the twins were rejecter by the father and her family because they had blood so people from a local humanist church buried the twins cont
Whaterer.. what a pile of crap. Whatever happened to FREEDOM OF COICE. JW's SHOULD be able to choose what they want for their life and their kids. IRONIC is that ABORTIONS are somehow acceptable and performed up to 25 weeks old. Sometimes hosptials enforce that because of life threatening circumstances to the mother... so THEY can KILL the babies .. but JW's can't CHOOSE a better treatment.. an alternative? There are bloodless hospitals all over the world now. Do your reasearch.
that is wrong as well jehovahs witnesses do not condone abortion..taking a life is as important as giving life..on the blood..blood is sacred to god and should not be taken in by any person..when a person dies or sheds blood that blood is returned to god not to another human being
Yes but with a blood transfusion, no one dies for donating blood. The scripture that says to "pour out" the blood is speaking of an animal that has been slaughtered for food. It was simply to show the Creator respect for the life that had just been taken. Since there is no life to atone for during a blood transfusion, this scripture does not apply.
Reasontomadness - this is why Dennis' state is now working on a bill that will protect CHILDREN from life and death decisions when adults in that child's life want them to choose death just so they can have "everlasting life". Adults can choose whatever they want but SHOULD not endorse death for their kids in the name of whoever.
Truthbooksblues - that is all I have to say on this matter. I hope you reconsider some of the observations and allow folks to view both sides of the coin and make a sincere decision on what direction they would take under a similar situation as Dennis's knowing what is at risk accepting or denying a blood transfusion, remaining faithful to God or placing one trust in a Doctor who by the way is an imperfect human being as you and I are without any gaurantee the YOUNG MAN would have livedaccepting
I cannot say or know what Dennis really wanted precisely one second prior to his surgery. He might have considered a transfusion as you state based on the voices of the doctors or who ever pressured or wanted him to take a blood transfusion or he may have willfully died a courageous man as did Jesus not accepting the offered kingdoms/ not accepting the blood transfusion knowing he did everything possible and remained faithful to the AlmightyCreator who will resurrect him and give everlastinglife
A comment is a remark, observation, interpretation of what is read, heard, viewed. To share a comment is not preaching. To block a comment or go as far as deletion of comments, remarks, observations, notes or interpretation is destroying valuable information to give the appearance one side is correct in his/her views. Why not allow folks to understand there are also negative consequences of one utilizing blood transfusions. GoodSamaritan in LA does transfusionfree surgeries with excellentresults
You have repeatedly ignored what I have been saying to you. This is a deadly doctrine based on a legalistic interpretation of the bible not based in fact. I will not encourage or support it by posting deadly WT propaganda and I won't let anyone else do it here either. POST YOUR OWN VIDEO ON THE SUBJECT. Sorry, you've been disfellowshiped from my comment sections.
Let me remind everyone still posting on this site - Dennis told me and a teacher that if all else failed, he would consider a transfusion since he trusted his doctors. A week later, 2 JW lawyers from NY flew in and he had to tell his teacher that there are MORE people who want him to follow his faith than live. Dennis didn't have a choice.
To Jaredx from 4 months ago - I don't know which students at LVMS felt Dennis made the right choice, but you are not speaking for me or the 100s of other kids in our school who feel differently! Dennis made the ONLY choice he could because his church members WANTED him to. These are HIS words 2 days before he died. Obviously you were not close to him.
Looks like you are one sided and don't allow yourself or other folks for that matter look at the map to make a accurate decision on what is the best route to take or at least respect folks who decide to decide for themselves what direction they prefer to take... the narrow road that leads to eternal life that few choose or the wide and spacious door that leads to destruction. Young Timothy as well as Jesus made excellent decisions when very young. Whyis itdifficult 2 believe one isn't able 2day?
Reason, as I responded to your comment, make your own videos to support this dangerous doctrine professed by the death cult. I will not allow you or anyone else to piggyback my video with your ignorant rant on the blood policy of the Watchtower. I have NOT blocked you, but keep it up and I could. Subscribers? Who cares? It's all about information. Get your own page to preach your views.
Go ahead and not only block my reason to madness comments that allow open minded folks to make a true and honest opinion on what is true and what is false. You don't only block what you dislike because you suffer in folks not subscribing to your information, but... you go as far as erasing the posted comments. Who is defensive? No way am I arguing with you. All is reasoning and showing a difference of opinion based on biblical facts and good health decisions abstaining form possiblecontamination
My goodness man... who is defensive? Who deleted the posted comments? Allow the folks to view valuable information that will help educate them on what are the negative results of a blood transfusion and see the benefits of one making a self individual and corageous decision in having transfusion free surgeries besides along with showing faithas Christ did to Almighty God with the hope of resurrection for not turning his back by disobeying the bibilcal instruction. Afraid of losing subscribers?
If a person is in a situation of deciding on whether or not to take a blood transfusion... is there 100% guarantee he will live? For how long? If the person goes forward accepting all risk without the blood transfusion, will the doctor give his 100% utilizing other methods? If the person dies remaining faithful, do you the questioning person believe the person will be resurrected as was Jesus Christ who was faithful to his Father? It is a test of faith. Keep in mind JW parents want the best!!!
Reasontomadness, here you go again commenting without watching the video or listening to it. The boy was not living with his JW parents. His parents opposed this stand. He was in the custody of his aunt. His parents were even barred from seeing him by the aunt and her friends. These silly comments could get you blocked. I can't suffer this kind of blind Watchtower defense.
poor dennis lindberg when i was a little kid he was in my elementry school he was really nice to everybody and nows he gone wow that fast every body will miss him
This makes me appreciate my parents a bit more. They're Jehovah's Witnesses and even though I'm gay, even though I've abandoned the cult (they don't know I'm an atheist) they still love me.
Even as screwed up as my parents are, they exemplify the concept of (reasonably) unconditional love. They are more loving than the God they worship, and I wish they would see that.
i knew this kid he was a friend of mine, i went to school with him. and the day after he died everyone came to school crying. these past months have been depressing expecialy since i moved and i dont have anyone who knows whats happened to talk to. it sucks.
One thing that hurt me very much was watching the children being made -- forced -- to go door to door with the adults. They HATED it and would often pretend to be hungry, or thirsty or have to use the bathroom and I heard over and over again "Are we almost done?" I was in the car many times with children who were actually spanked for making a fuss about going door to door. I think this is child abuse.
Don't compare going shopping with the forcing of knocking on doors and even trying to push literature off on people - assigning a "sales" job to kids. I've known teenagers who absolutely refused to talk at the door - they would go door to door with another person because they were forced to do so by the elders and their parents but refused to say one word. The "whining" excuse doesn't fly with teens. - nor with younger children.
The literature is sold to the congregations and they certainly do receive a bill and must pay it to the Watchtower. Often times in my congregation the donations did not make up the total amount of the bill and we had to fork up money to pay it. Fortunately, we had some elders who were affluent and could afford to put in the extra money the Watchtower demanded for the literature. I know because I am married to a former elder. Both of us have escaped from the mind controlling cult of the WT.
onobonobo, truthbook, nomoreknocking (no more knocking, get it?) these are open minded listeners & learners speaking sound reasoning & doing for themsleves. but lines of reasoning like that of say,,, firebreatherhwm, are so non-sequitar, so closed. by definition, open minded means to open to new ideas w/o prejudice or bias. a belief for which there is no evidence & in the teeth of contradicting evidence is as bias as it gets. not accepting real evidence is as prejudiced as it gets. open!
This is a response to pjkilmer. I was able to get free by reading a book called "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz. He was on the Governing Body of the JW's. I was already questioning so many things I saw and I was particularly touched in a very painful way by the unhappiness I saw among the young people, especially the teenagers. Reading that book was the best thing that ever happened to me and all I can say is that there is so much happiness in freedom!
hi jared its me rob hulse from cross country in 7th grade. i miss him too, i hope everyone in mount vernon is doing alright, i was hoping to come to mount vernon over the summer but it didnt happen. i hope i get to see you guys some time soon.
anyone else who gives this comment a thumbs down is stupid and shouldnt even be looking at this because you obveiously doesnt know dennis
Truthbookblues, how about quoting some statistics for the readers (+ sources)?
Number of people DEAD due to watchtower interpretation of the 'dont-eat-blood' scripture? I've seen a list of over 100 names somewhere)
Number of estimated suicides of young people to date, after having been 'shunned in the name of god', also actively encouraged by the watchtower printed word and practiced by its zealous followers in the name of god?
I was a JW for several years and during that time I knew of four suicides by young people who were disfellowshipped and shunned and who committed suicide. The father of one of the victims (an elder) later stated if he had it to do over again he would never shun his daughter -- but he learned that too late. I am only one person out of millions of JW's - so how many suicides are there really by those who lose everything through shunning? I expect in the thousands. The JW cult is evil.
I read a book called "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz (nephew of WT president Fred Franz). It led me down the road to freedom. I was already questioning the WT because of so many things I saw that were wrong and I saw so many unhappy kids and their unhappiness touched me in a painful way. It was first because of the children that I started questioning.
I've heard a little about Franz and his story but haven't read his book, yet. I had the greatest relationship/romance in my hands with a gorgeous woman til she told me that she was raised a JW and that she was going back to the religion. I read as much of the stories & doctrines as I could & must say it was haunting, even more so when I saw how she changed for the worse. Our potential has been replaced w the stygian doctrines of the JW's. It helps to see people like you with the intelligence to
to see thru indoctrination & question it & break free. It's very obvious to any1 outside the JW bubble, just like it would be for any1 outside the mormon or muslim bubble, to see that they're robbing humanity of their freedom. But most of the people on the inside are blinded by their faith. I hope u spread ur story. maybe we can cure our species from this social disease.
I feel very sorry for your girlfriend - she should also read Franz' book. It would be a real eye-opener for her. But I do admit that breaking away is very, very hard even if you know in your heart that their doctrines are wrong. When I learned about Franz' book, I went to a library all the way on the other side of my city because I was so scared that another JW who knows me might see me and see the book I was checking out and report me to the elders. And I am an adult woman!!!
wow! it's so good to hear that and it's good that you're sharing your story because you never know who it might help to break free & get their lives back. unfortunately, my girl (no more) followed what i read abt the JW's to the tee unwilling to even look at anythg critical of the WT. & jst like you said, she was scared of being spotted by anthr JW doing somthg as innocent as being hand in hand with the man that loved her w/a passion and for keeps. as if the natural romance on the way to
marriage was bad because she might be fornicating, which she was counseled abt. and it was that kind of relationship that we both thought this was it and everything was story book like. the one & only thing that destroyed us was the JW's. i agree w you that the JW cult is evil! all religions enjoy special respect in this country, against the 1st amendment, and keeping silent abt them is the worst thing we can do. thank you for sharing!!!
The best way to get information about a subject or religion is go to that person or grouop of people and ask them. May you should all contact a local Kingdom Hall speak with one of the leaders or even send a letter to the Watchtower Society in Brooklyn NY. With that, I think this has been enough info to get people to think for themselves, So I won't make any further comments on this subject, it's a waste of time to those who won't learn, listen, and do for themselves.
"best way to get information is go to that person or group of people and ask them"
Yes, if you want selected, biased, twisted information to form your a conclusions from. We all know how propaganda can be used to lead the masses to beleive something not true, without the need to actually tell lies.
Readers, bear in mind not to be put off being critical, if something really is valid, it will stand up to our scrutiny & close examination, without us being put off being critical of it
Nearly 7000 spoken languages in the world, with 300 of them spoken in London alone.
(source Ethnologue: Languages of World
15th ed)
Global product marketing by organisations is primarily concerned to maximise net revenue, and not to provide product coverage. 'branded god' products are no exception.
Fiscal year 1997/8, before becoming charitable status to evade taxation, total net assets of the watchtower society was $634 million (source: NYSE)
ononobono, Australia, at the coming of the first white man, had 500 separate languages in a totoal population of about 500,000 people for the entire continent. And I'm not even counting all the dialects!
onobono, they seem to confuse quantity with quality, don't they? Muslims claim to be No 1 in the growth industry- but that's because of their high birthrate, and is not due to conversions.
Thats only a "believer's version", created by jw church leadership after it 1st adopted in 1930's.
Real reason is simple. EXCLUDE other churches (i.e. IBSA, going strong today) using Watchtower's "exclusive brand name" for god the watchtower considers its own.
Under leadership of their 'Pope' (Judge Rutherford), the threat of losing control of this intellectual property was reduced by transferring it to jws.
Comments about Cults (i.e. jw's) are so much like the story of the King's New Clothes.
One of first things most Cults do is lead their new recruits to believe "since they are specially chosen by god, the devil (very angry you found 'truth') will try all he can to trick you, increasing each day".
These text comments I write will of course be are perceived as being "influenced by the devil" by cult members.
I wouldn't otherwise be bothering with this, but I'm researching about cults.
Every salesman is taught if every question is 'answered', the product will be sold. High Control Groups like watchtower know this full well, as well as being trained to put across 'ideas' convincingly, living & breathing their merchandise, are highly trained in manipulating conversations into delivering a stock of ready answers. This even includes a selection of ready 'answers' for for when there is no answer. Of course they are "receptive to questions"
"you should be talking to the person you study with"
That's what people say when while they are being hooked.
Well good luck to you, I wish you well, I hope you are prepared to spend the rest of your life having no part of humanity, attending 4+ meetings a week, not celebrating special days like mothers fathers and birthdays, and discover for yourself first hand what it is like, such as the torn families for starters, you'll find out for yourself, but by then you will find you cannot leave
You mean like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman.. and expect an unbiased opinion about the product they are selling?
The only people likely fall into this "ask the seller" trap are those in a vulnerable state in their lives, easily led and manipulated, these people are not mentally able to resist very highly trained psychological techniques used to sell this 'branded god' product to mostly vulnerable people
You mean just like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman?.. and expect an unbiased opinion about the product they are selling?
The only people likely fall into this "ask the seller" trap are those in a vulnerable state in their lives, easily led and manipulated, these people are not mentally able to resist very highly trained psychological techniques used to sell this 'branded god' product to vulnerable people
onobonobo wrote 'like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman'
I was just about to say big difference is they finish after 8 hours shift, but i remembered know a used car salesmen who also lives it and every waking hour too just like J-Ws do. Of course he will say he "is just doing a service to the public", just like J-W say they are just there to "teach"
Yes a used-car Salesperson....! i like it, that is so accurate way of describing it! genius
there are very close similarities between watchtower cult and the catholics, they both are authoritarian pyramid leadership structure beleiving the leadership is 'chosen by god', but in other ways very different, i.e. the way they deal with sexual abuse of minors by church elders, the catholic are public about what they are doing about it, but watchtower are complete DENIAL, they have to protect a 'brand image' at all costs, they channel a lot of their donated cash into out-of-court settlements
Sorry No victim here, it's called personal choice. Even before I knew who JW was I wouldn't take blood. Jesus gave 2 new commandments while on the earth. "Love One Another" and "Do to others as You would have them do to you" It's not for us as mere humans to question their beliefs, I know of many cases where Dr's said blood was needed and it was refused, the patient survived and is better now than ever before. Transplants? What you never heard of the jarvis heart and such? Get Educated!!
Yes there is a victim. When there is no alternative, the choice is 1. a 'spiritual death' or 2. a real death with a 'hope'.
This is all because a major belief was artifically engineered with an obvious motive, and that is to do virtually the same thing the Pagans once used to do for their gods.
Pagans don't kill their kids now instead they are leading the movement to protect the planet from selfish 'christians' burning fossil fuel going to 5 meetings every week, all to recruit more members
I am Not a JW, however I understand their stance on blood. There is a passage in the book of Romans which basically says that taking blood of another person into your own body is wrong, therefore the stance on Blood. My personel belief is that at age 14 they have been educated enough to make that decision on their own. If I were to be put in a situation that required I would refuse it, because there are so many other things that can be used to accomplish the same thing without using blood.
You too have fallen victim to Watchtower propaganda. Simply admitting that there is some risk to a blood transfusion does not make it unbiblical. Accepting one scripture twisted to support a failed dogma is not the realm of the educated. I suppose the use of the same scriptures to prohibit transplants would make sense to you too? Fact is, they forbid transplants as they did blood until "New Light" when a governing body member needed a kidney transplant. Isn't God good? C'mon, pull your head out.
"understand their stance on blood" Well that sums up the fact most people won't ever 'go against bible scripture', no matter how twisted and how out of biblical context that scripture is presented. Of course those twisting the scriptures will lead followers to believe "the bible is twisted" and only THEY have god's blessing. The bottom line is it's the MOTIVE for scripture twisting which is the real issue, it's what organized religion has to GAIN from it that matters.
It's a known fact when marketing a branded product, by getting users to make a sacrifice, they beleive in it more. Pay more for something you believe it's better quality. It's difficult to admit you are wrong after when you make a sacrifice, ask any victim of a con man.
One of the things that are interesting to us is not only does firebreathermhw believe crazy statistics like "2nd fastest religion in the world", that allegedly he/she is a teacher too. Well I guess that is one way for young people to develop and hone their BS-detectors, that is be exposed to BS teacher while at school.
Watchtower twist again, but this time instead of being the usual over-literal interpretation, this time it's done 'holy koran and use modesty' style.
The holy bible says:
EATING blood (as food). Unless you are an alien from outer space you already know that this means taking it orally, and allowing it to pass into the stomach and then digesting it, whereupon it is broken down as food, eaten, yes just like when a jw eats a rare steak with this same red fluid dripping from it.
biblical context meaning of the scripture is all to do with types of food which can and cant be eaten, not abstained from if you want to go by the book to the letter in fine detail.
but then the Kor-an says don't eat pork or somethinng like that, but islams choose not to eat pork anyway.
interestingly the difference/sameness is/was choosing which kind of "death" you would like
Utterly Atrocious- how could anyone in the name of a "loving" God decide it's correct to shun people for taking blood transfusions to save their life?
i feel sorry for the 'deluded hopefuls' jwinct and people like that, they themselves know deep down inside they are deluded, but they still keep going because they are deeply terrified to ever ask themselves a simple question, that is whether all the time they'd spent preaching, all the sacrifices they'd made so far, can in any way affect being able to admit they are on the wrong path.
studiosequencer,,,,religion is find if you are old enough to make a informed decision ,,that cult brain washes kids by nightmares they choke the kids to death with fear ,they love to take a pretty gild and stand on a corner to get freaks to join ,it is some thing that i seen many times it makes me sick to think that a kid is the bait ,it drags in unstable perverts at best ,,kids and religion is child abuse.
The kids, I've heard about their implanted phobias, how they are scared of anything religious and believe demons are real.
I understand that in the Watchtower cult there is a weird 'group-love' going on where all the followers each have the same mannerisms, they talk the same way, they act the same way. I've seen some of it, it is completely amazing how predictable any Watchtower cult member behaves the same in a given situation, it's as if you know one, you know all of them.
While on theology, I'll just mention the 2 things most important to the watchtower cult are
1. increasing world religious intolerance and sabotaging inter-faith worship by having their 'own brand' of private god, marketed like microsoft with brand loyalty.
and 2. obsessively recruiting more people
The rest of it is supporting the above, which will include prohibiting celebrations such as birthdays, father's day, mother's day, etc., avoiding higher education, list goes on...
onobonobo,,,The present study of 50 Jehovah's Witnesses admitted to the Mental Health Service facilities of Western Australia suggests that members of this section of the community are more likely to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital than the general population. Furthermore, followers of the sect are three times more likely to be diagnosed as suffering from schizophrenia and nearly four times more likely from paranoid schizophrenia than the rest of the population at risk.
Also, borderline personality disorder is very prevelant among watchtower followers. (note they think they're "following jesus", but in reality only the bits of jesus that HQ pick out that best serve the organization)
You'll also find that the image of the 'brand-name' is of a higher priority than the patient's own health, in mental hospital they will often identify themselves as 'other religion', and deny themselves treatment opportunities they would get if they were more honest.
"religion and kids is child abuse no other way to describe it"
And watchtower followers are effectively holding their OWN children to ransom to force mankind ("ungodly world as JWCT puts it) to finding loopholes of making life-saving blood transfusions, which the watchtower HQ in NY, plug up again each time, separating themsleves from the responsiblity, forcing the JW kids back on the front line. HQ give them a hobson's choice: die or Die, they have to choose which.
onobonobo,,,you bet watchtower is sick stuff they sell their souls to get a candy bar but won,t save a life when it comes to simple science ,,letting a kid die is the ultimate
straw ,they use kids like garbage cans ,,kids need to grow up and be able to make a informed decision ,not shoved down their necks and choked to death.
The sad thing about watchtower-followers, is all they have is 'hope', nothing more in their religious pyramid scheme. Just like the compulsive gambler hopes to win big jackpot, deludedly thinking the odds improve the longer he's doing it for or because of the work that he's put into studying Form. Compulsive gamblers nearly always have a 'system' to follow religiously.
People like JWCT do mean well in their own minds, but they will still grow old and die, however deluded they make themselves.
onobonobo,,you know i have put a lot of time into thinking about the victims of religions
they are the ones who tell the story's the best,their graves are testament .Their friends out side of the jw monster are the ones i know the best ,kids are brainwashed to accept anything the religion says if the religion say they must all commit suicide the parents will murder the kid rather than have them survive ,thats called brain washing ,,JW kids are slaves to something they have no understanding of.
Yes, I've heard that about the kids, they are brought up in a closed community where there is lots of psychological manipulation going on among the adults all the time and on the kids, the kids role-play out some really weird 'head' stuff when they are playing. I know of a little girl who didn't want to go to the watchtower church, the only way she could make herself heard was by threatening to slash her parents with a knife. Of course they'll always say 'it's the devil' doing that.
Members of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith may be a risk factor predisposing to a schizophrenic illness. Further studies would be interesting in investigating whether pre-psychotic people are more likely to join the sect than normal people and what part (if any) membership has in bringing about such a breakdown.
There's accredited scholarly studies in this area and can be easily obtained if you're licensed mental health practitioner. The watchtower cult a useful study resource for the profession.
I've seen excerpts reporting there have been studies with watch-tower church followers having several different personalities and could switch between them at will.
BPD diagnosis is also very common among JW's, but I think 'BPD' is a label for "watchtower mentality"
onobonobo,,,,it is clear that members of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement have a high admission to the Mental Health Services,showing a clear indication that they are targeting the mentally disabled .
"Watchtower-followers targeting those with poor mental health"
As you'd expect, they are the unfortunate people the most susceptible & JWs are attracted to them like flies.
All figures quite well when you profile the average JW, all external symptoms fit.
As well as their obvious mental health problems, they are generallly underachievers with no long-term outlook in their lifecycle, i.e. poor at spelling and grammar (except for watchtower HQ's writers I know here on youtube moonlighting!)
In the ku'ran it doesn't actually say in it muslim women need to completely cover, it just says "use appropriate modesty" or something. (Muslim: please correct me?)
In JW theology, bible verses are badly mis-quoted by HQ to engineer their doctrine:
1. Excessively literal, such as the hebrew word for 'god' believed to be god's christian name, but actually used to 'brand' god for false exclusivity
2. the other extreme, i.e. the bible says "don't EAT blood", but believed like ku'ran/modesty
Ah yes, the general resurrection, brought to you by the same people who taught that Pastor Russell was resurrected after he died and was overseeing the preaching work from heaven. Oh yes, the same people who taught that Armageddon would come in 1914 and 1925. Wow, we have reason to trust in these teachers. ...and for your information he is actually dead. His body is rotting in the ground. He is dead in this way to his parents who didn't get to be with him when he died. Praise The Watchtower!
"...the same people who taught that Pastor Russell was resurrected after he died..."
This is completely true, I didn't believe my own eyes at first when I read the watchtower magazine saying this, printed by a genuine 100% watchtower printing press.
It's proabably just as well watchtower followers don't believe in heaven, otherwise up there right now will be all the different software versions of 'the truth' up there, each one having an equal duty to preach their 'the truth'. What HELL!
"JW do believe in heaven" Ask a jw if they will 'go to heaven'
The belief in 'heaven' changes during the pre-planned indoctrination process of a new recruit. Starts off 'yes, heaven exists & I'm going there', because early on 'treasures in heaven' was mentioned so as not to alienate them. Then after a while allowed to realise this 'heaven' is only for a select few. (Actually for an older generation of IBSA's who'd refused to accept the wacthtower 'no-heaven' doctrine as a 'consolation prize')
We all will die but they never said that Armageddon would come in 1914 or 1925, you better do some more research. Try calling one of the Elders and asking them actually try calling the Watchtower Society and get a one-on-one interview with someone who really knows the facts. You apparently are making up things. My education is a study of all Religions I do not look at heresay and the like I go right to the source. By the way most JW are very educated people, so drop the mental part to.
This vision of the prophet Ezekiel depicts the established theocratic Kingdom of God on earth, civil and religious, spiritual and earthly .. The Temple .. is a type and symbol of 'better things to come', after the wars, revolutions and anarchy of the period from 1914 to 1925 have passed.
It's really up to you what you want to believe about failed prophecies, but be it on your conscience if you're considering leading others to believe "they never said", without checking the truth.
The primary sources printed by them, together with our understanding of human nature makes it very clear about how watchtower led its followers to believe.
Millions of jws living back then had took these beliefs to their graves thinking they would never die.
After listening recorded (secret) conversations & having a go myself, the same conclusion as almost anyone, like talking to a politician or someone high up in scientology or mormon.
Evasive. Spin. Every sentence has just about every word meaning twisted. If you get through all the evasion the conversation ends up 'take it up with god then' which shows really how irresponsible the leaders are. Yes call elder if you are easily led.
If you look at the standard of english grammar and spelling among the text comments of american jw's who are trying to defend watchtower core beliefs, you will find that it is consistently poor, compared to average.
The watchower actively discourages further education, it's a proven fact over and over again. There is even here on youtube a video from the watchtower themselves saying how they 'discourage further education' in 2007.
He's only dead to this ungodly world. They think he's gone for dead, or something. He'll be back soon in the general resurrection of mankind, soon to happen. Where will YOU be then? Probably nowhere to be found.
If you are a JWinCT please don't say something like: "Probably nowhere to be found." That's not our call. Please educate WHY we don't accept blood transfusions.
The child is dead, nothing will ever bring the child back, PROVEN FACT
"ungodly world" PROVE IT
"He'll be back soon" (what? like the way a suicide bomber is convinced they will be in paradise before drop of blood touches the ground?) PROVE IT
"soon to happen" FACT: Watch-tower followers have been saying "soon" for the last 100 years. Some saying "soon" right up to their dying breath on their own deathbeds. Watchtower followers even 'preach' from their grave, another proven fact.
onobonobo,,,,Since cults are typically short on grace and long on law (mixed with group obligations, guilt-inducing teachings, and isolationism), I have always assumed that this unnecessary difficulty would lead to emotional and mental problems.
i workd w HIC;/HLC: from 97-01 and i can tell u if it were not 4 leagle issuees the brothers wud hav made this a conscience matter (i.e. not valid 4 judical hearng ever) otherwise. w/ in this decade the soc will let it fade off but it does suck now esp 4 boys w hav zero contact w "THOSE takng the lead' among them. please realize things change and please b alive to look back on it.IF U WILL C W UR OWN EYES THERE WILL B OTHERS2COVER/HELP U.ITS OK &MANY R WAITING 2HELP U. WE ALL C
therevstube 3 months ago
This is so sad, he had the whole life infront of him=(
Themurmlis 7 months ago
I don't think religion completely blinds you or makes you narrow minded all the way through. All and all the choices depend on the person the way they interpret the bible. Religious stupidity is breed by misconceptions of the BIBLE. I'm Christian, I say end game the choices depend on a person and what is considered the over all right and moral thing to do, that would to be to save a life. Point black, just saying, I'm not here to preach to no one.
LOVESALL3303 8 months ago
sad....the blood of this young person is on the hands of the governing body..there are blood guilty.. how could they sleep at night! i'm 18 now but if this happened to me at 14 like him i would have to choice to die to. but know if i need a blood translation i would accept. i would donate blood to so someone could live
1036DaysToSochi 9 months ago
So,every devot jw thinks of me as "demonised"? How very...insulting,to be judged by those who halt their own growth, giving in to the fears of solitude and chaos.How pitiful...
gadgaurd 10 months ago
CULT thats why no man will ever tell me i can't give my kid blood to save his life,
Jw's judge and decide things like god is, they impersonate god and will be judged for it too screw the JW's
whitelight6970 10 months ago
this organization should be terminalted
eve438 11 months ago
You can't prove they wouldn't have died even if they HAD the transfusion- Jehovah knows what happened, they kept their INTEGRITY in the face of death, imitating the perfecter of their faith, Jesus Christ!! Jehovah certainly can give them their lives back, and they won't have to live in THIS wicked system of things, run by liars imitating THEIR father, satan the devil. There's a lot more going on in the real world, not this delusion created by satan! God knows exactly what you're doing, too.
Lynllie 1 year ago
Religion binds you mentally... keeps the individual in a state of narrow minded thinking. C.U.L.T = control until life terminates....
Deesighfa 1 year ago
Religion spoils everything.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
what about abortions,you prob agree they kill 10s of thousands of babies,but thats ok ? dah,these did,nt have a chance to choose,so get a grip hypocrite
georgeeboy2222 1 year ago
now THIS is thought provoking.
thepixieful 1 year ago
im a witness and what that boy he knew what he was doing if it was me i would have done the same
kristina80601 1 year ago
@kristina80601 you'd loose yr vagina to WORMS
BayouBluesMan 10 months ago
@BayouBluesMan what? i choose to pick my faith over anything. ill see that boy in the new world healthy and happy
kristina80601 10 months ago
When we can charge children as adults in murder cases, we can take each child and decide, in a case by case basis, that they have the ability to make this decision.
LG15Fan 1 year ago
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Imagine Jesus Christ saying "i'd rather live", and then walking away from God's purpose.
Jesus knew what he had to do in order to remain faithful to God, and also, he knew there was a higher reward for his brave action. For this little fellow Lindberg, there was something more precious ahead, than just preserving his life. It takes a solid faith, a solid mind and lots of courage.
isaacdunkel 1 year ago
This is the reason why religion is bullshit.
platinum243125 1 year ago 7
I went to school with this boy. He was honorable and loyal. But he wasn't born as a Witness he became one to live with his aunt. But because of his maturity, I don't think he could live with the guilt of taking the transfusion.
boydlanier 1 year ago
boydlanier
Why did he have to live with his Jehovahs witness aunt ? where were his parents ? did you ever ask him ? And where were they when he was "deciding " as a KID
ZEITGEISTism 1 year ago
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isaacdunkel 2 years ago
Imagine Jesus Christ saying "i'd rather live", and then walking away from God's purpose.
Jesus knew what he had to do in order to remain faithful to God, and also, he knew there was a higher reward for his brave action. For this little fellow Lindberg, there was something more precious ahead, than just preserving his life. It takes a solid faith, a solid mind and lots of courage.
isaacdunkel 2 years ago
i personally knew him. we were really close in grade school. then i moved to a neighboring town and never saw him again. until one day my sister came home with a newspaper that said he was dead. the things they say are true. he was very mature and the fact that he made the decison not to take the blood transfusion was the most outrageous thing i ever heard. he had a successful life ahead of him and it was cut short due to religion. and i have family who are also jehovah's witnesses.
Amanda7576 2 years ago
He died because his heart was enlarged. it would have put more pressure on his heart putting foreign blood in him, the blood could have been infected. And no one told him what to do it was all his decission. his real friends are proud for him standing up to what he beleived. he would not have been disfellowshipped if he decided to take blood. it was all his decission.
11tall66 2 years ago
What a liar you are. The poor kid was brainwashed from birth to believe that if he took a blood transfusion, Jehovah would murder him at Armageddon and he wouldn't get to live in paradise on earth. The WTS is a sick cult that stands there and watches their members die needlessly by enforcement of this doctrine. The only reason they haven't dropped it is because they know they be sued for all the people that have died in the past for not taking a transfusion.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Fucking cults!
superCatia 2 years ago
There's advantages to controlled studies. Google Bloodless Hospitals. They've been in existence for decades, and report no such catastrophic catastrophes, or this being between a rock and a hard place all the time with bloodless treatments. Only advantages.
megthepearl 2 years ago
this is why religion is a load of bollocks
devestationn 2 years ago
Well, taking the blood and being disfellowshipped is a double win. Live, and free yourself from an idiot mindless cult at the same time!
WanagiAkicita 2 years ago
the worst part is that theyre leaving it up to the individual now as a conscience matter which means a lot of people died needlessly.
espyd21c 2 years ago 3
I was in UCSF hospital in San Francisco, with my newborn, who had a heart defect. There was a young man and woman there, with their sick newborn, who also had a heart defect. They did not want their baby to have blood cause they were JWs. Even though, their baby would die without it. Thank the Lord the hospital got a court order to do it anyways.
upliftedworrior 2 years ago
The governing body has blood on their hands.
Sarai217 2 years ago
Every day people die because of religion.
So what good does it ?
andyunderground 2 years ago
It depends...
Honestly I just don't like religion and think...(Best not to say XD)
but some people believe in it but don't always go by it. Such as people who would go and do a blood transfusion but still respect god. Or just believing in God. I don't have a problem with those kinda people. Or people that are really into religion but don't force it upon others. Currently now with Iraq and USA/UK all Christians V Muslim stuff. Or ...well have you even read the bible. Just so much hatred in that
mariotaz 2 years ago
There is freedom of speach, there is freedom of religion, but all philosophical opinions and ideas a person might have are developed over time.
If there is no freedom of opinion-development there is no true freedom of speach, and no true freedom of religion.
This boy was not granted with this freedom and he indirectly died because of this fact.
drummerponsi 2 years ago
Its a cult, plain and simple, destroy it with fire.
12freax 2 years ago
It's the next thing to murder if a parent/partner won't allow a blood transfusion, and it's just brain washing. The poor lad didn't realise he had a choice to live and he wouldn't be punished afterwards. Of course he would still be accepted into heaven, be with his loved ones again that had passed, and indeed stayed on earth a good few more years with the loved ones still on our silly planet. How can people believe in this???
jennifrecles 2 years ago 2
exactly, if you can go as far as saying if you choose to die on your own account because of a religion then why not just legalize euthanasia, in my opinion its no different...we can all make up false stories
pclle 2 years ago 2
I was faced with a blood decision 25 years ago. At the time, I was ABSOLUTELY certain that my decision was smiled on DIRECTLY by the creator of all things seen and unseen. When I couple some investigation of biblical text, as well as employing logic and reason, I should smack myself in the forehead, "WHAT THE HELL?!"
I agree with those that observed that THIS like much of what is prohibited by the WT, is a matter of conscience! Life and death prohibitions are an instrument of control.
mrbarthoss 2 years ago
MrBarthoss, I agree.
My mother made the decision to not accept any blood fractions, which are considered a conscience matter by the GB. These fractions are what pass through the placenta to the baby from the mother, which are practically all components of blood. Nevertheless, they are derived from blood donations, which are a no-no for JW's.
Makes no sense, but I defend her right to deny certain treatment, and JW's are healthier because of it. Not only that, surgeons get to try new stuff on'em
kennyLLC 2 years ago
thanks for the response Kenny, I appreciated hearing your mother's experience. With regard the Witnesses forging new paths into experimental surgery, et al, I applaud what is done in ANY new endeavor of scientific / medical research. You seem to agree with the core point(?) that for witnesses, anyone(!) should be free to make this or any decision based on their conscience.
Frankly, the world is a better place with hospitals that are committed to bloodless surgery......
mrbarthoss 2 years ago
The truth about every death of a JW in the hospital is that administration spun it's wheels trying to force blood on the individual rather than using the alternative treatment they agreed to practice when they accepted them into the hospital.
JW's are up front about their stance before admittance, so if some nurse or blood sales-rep decides to deny treatment without blood it is THEIR responsiblity when they refuse timely treatment. In essence, they are held hostage until they accept blood.
kennyLLC 2 years ago
ken, each case is different. It isn't like the WT says. Not all are the same. The majority are emergencies that are not well thought out by JW's. That's why the kingdom ministry keeps telling them to be ready ahead of time. Since they won't do it they have the HLC to intervene. The hospital is for treatment, not hostage taking. Your simplistic view plays into the blood covered hands of the GB. They deal in half truths and emotionalism. Sorry but you are ill informed.
Truthbookblues 2 years ago
Actually, my simplistic view is caused by experience.
Once the hospital gets you behind closed doors you are dealing with individuals with differing views who may very well seek to deny you your right to medical treatment demanding compliance to the blood business that operates within the confines of their ICU's and nursing stations.
The act of giving blood is a religious experience for many non-JW's and they are thoroughly insulted by JW's who exercise their right to accept or deny it.
19411935 2 years ago
The governing body says you can have all the parts individually but not the whole. Hypocrisy. JW's do deny their kids necessary health care and cause their deaths because of trust in Jesus' brothers who could change their mind on this issue at the sound of a fart.
Truthbookblues 2 years ago
They are dying because the hospital tricks them into admittance, thinking they can force blood on them. As a result, the true cause of death is the failure to give treatment agreed upon from the start.
You make it sound like JW's hold their kids in a closet until the last second while they bleed to death, and suddenly show up in desperation with their child in an emergency room demanding "NO BLOOD!"
I bet you every single one of these children died in a hospital.
kennyLLC 2 years ago
No child in need of care for a trauma is tricked into a hospital. They go there because they need medical attention. Children are pressured by their parents into making the "right" decision. Truly a sad and deadly situation.
Truthbookblues 2 years ago 4
No, they were not tricked into going to a hospital, and that is not what I was saying at all.
It only becomes deadly when hospital personnel decide to buck the "no-blood" agreement made upon admittance.
If they have no intention of honoring it, they should allow AND assist in relocating the patient. Many doctors will work on JW's and their children: likewise many doctors will not take a blood transfusion.
Do you think THEY would get timely accomodation for THEIR stance ?
You betcha !
kennyLLC 2 years ago
@Truthbookblues Well played my man well played. JW's are perhaps the most ignorant people I have ever met. So much so that they are notorious in the public eye and media as comical.
fryster123 5 days ago
My God, I have 2 lovely boys and I'd do everything to keep them alive, even blood transfusion...
wiatroda 2 years ago
Do your research. Blood transfusions are the cheapest and easiest anwer. There are medical advancements that cost the hopital more money so you don't hear of it. In several countries and states there are bloodless hospitals. Surgens who refuse to use blood because of contamination and infections. Go ahead, give your childern malaria and hiv. All the power to ya.
MacTacMaui 2 years ago
The testing was well beyond its infancy. The issue is choice. It's not some mystic divine subject here. A child of 14 has the perfect ability to see that God directs us not to partake of blood, you don't have to be a JW to be able to get that info.
046347 3 years ago
You can even put aside their magazines on the subject. The issue is should you disobey God & be able to physically live for 80 yrs, more if you're lucky & have a dirty conscience because you disobeyed, or obey God, & if it comes about that you do die because you didn't receive blood come to him in heaven knowing that you have a clean conscience, or be able to live in paradise, what ever side of the fence you stand on with that?
046347 3 years ago
And yes Forest we are all perfectly aware that there are risks in surgeries, very good job on bringing that point to light though. I think everyone in Youtube land is very proud of you. Let's go with that point, forget religion for now, why would you want to force something that has more risks than benefits? Besides AIDS there are countless other problems associated with blood transfusions.
046347 3 years ago
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I also lived near JW parents. Their son was in need of blood, but refused. The doctors went to the court system, the court sided with the doctors. The child ( 12 years old ) received the blood transfusion. The boy lived, but later found it was discovered that the blood was tainted with the AIDS virus, he died 14 months later. Already fighting an immune disorder, he lived 14 months in pain & sickness. So choosing not to have blood is a choice worse than death for a child? Try a new video.
046347 3 years ago
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046347 3 years ago
with names they gave and not the parents because they they did not reconise them as theirs because of having blood to help them live. but they were buried as mentally nothing by their parents family's I don't this jw religion is a religion it is a cult and disturbing one too. I feel everyone person in the world is a gift from god these babys had no right to be treated this way by so called followers of god and jenhovah I wish doctors shld have the ultate right with authorities to force treatment
DanielR305 3 years ago
Daniel$305 - such a tragic story. Most states have laws protecting children but usually the courts and state must get involved to enforce the law and unfortunately this delays life saving medical care. Just depens on the hospital if they support Freedom of Religion. Cults are killers.
pink4DL 3 years ago 2
I live near where twins of jw parents lived and gave birth to them and the mother refused to have the transfusion and when the twins were born. The parents tryed to stop doctors from giving them blood after legal fighting the twins got the blood and the mother in the end died refusing blood also both twins died also for not getting the blood quick enough and the twins were rejecter by the father and her family because they had blood so people from a local humanist church buried the twins cont
DanielR305 3 years ago
Whaterer.. what a pile of crap. Whatever happened to FREEDOM OF COICE. JW's SHOULD be able to choose what they want for their life and their kids. IRONIC is that ABORTIONS are somehow acceptable and performed up to 25 weeks old. Sometimes hosptials enforce that because of life threatening circumstances to the mother... so THEY can KILL the babies .. but JW's can't CHOOSE a better treatment.. an alternative? There are bloodless hospitals all over the world now. Do your reasearch.
MacTacMaui 2 years ago
that is wrong as well jehovahs witnesses do not condone abortion..taking a life is as important as giving life..on the blood..blood is sacred to god and should not be taken in by any person..when a person dies or sheds blood that blood is returned to god not to another human being
duke960 2 years ago 2
Yes but with a blood transfusion, no one dies for donating blood. The scripture that says to "pour out" the blood is speaking of an animal that has been slaughtered for food. It was simply to show the Creator respect for the life that had just been taken. Since there is no life to atone for during a blood transfusion, this scripture does not apply.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Reasontomadness - this is why Dennis' state is now working on a bill that will protect CHILDREN from life and death decisions when adults in that child's life want them to choose death just so they can have "everlasting life". Adults can choose whatever they want but SHOULD not endorse death for their kids in the name of whoever.
pink4DL 3 years ago 3
Truthbooksblues - that is all I have to say on this matter. I hope you reconsider some of the observations and allow folks to view both sides of the coin and make a sincere decision on what direction they would take under a similar situation as Dennis's knowing what is at risk accepting or denying a blood transfusion, remaining faithful to God or placing one trust in a Doctor who by the way is an imperfect human being as you and I are without any gaurantee the YOUNG MAN would have livedaccepting
reasontomadness 3 years ago
A CHILD of 14. Don't play games with the facts Reasontomadness.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
I cannot say or know what Dennis really wanted precisely one second prior to his surgery. He might have considered a transfusion as you state based on the voices of the doctors or who ever pressured or wanted him to take a blood transfusion or he may have willfully died a courageous man as did Jesus not accepting the offered kingdoms/ not accepting the blood transfusion knowing he did everything possible and remained faithful to the AlmightyCreator who will resurrect him and give everlastinglife
reasontomadness 3 years ago
A CHILD of 14, NOT A MAN.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
A comment is a remark, observation, interpretation of what is read, heard, viewed. To share a comment is not preaching. To block a comment or go as far as deletion of comments, remarks, observations, notes or interpretation is destroying valuable information to give the appearance one side is correct in his/her views. Why not allow folks to understand there are also negative consequences of one utilizing blood transfusions. GoodSamaritan in LA does transfusionfree surgeries with excellentresults
reasontomadness 3 years ago
You have repeatedly ignored what I have been saying to you. This is a deadly doctrine based on a legalistic interpretation of the bible not based in fact. I will not encourage or support it by posting deadly WT propaganda and I won't let anyone else do it here either. POST YOUR OWN VIDEO ON THE SUBJECT. Sorry, you've been disfellowshiped from my comment sections.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
Let me remind everyone still posting on this site - Dennis told me and a teacher that if all else failed, he would consider a transfusion since he trusted his doctors. A week later, 2 JW lawyers from NY flew in and he had to tell his teacher that there are MORE people who want him to follow his faith than live. Dennis didn't have a choice.
pink4DL 3 years ago
To Jaredx from 4 months ago - I don't know which students at LVMS felt Dennis made the right choice, but you are not speaking for me or the 100s of other kids in our school who feel differently! Dennis made the ONLY choice he could because his church members WANTED him to. These are HIS words 2 days before he died. Obviously you were not close to him.
pink4DL 3 years ago
Looks like you are one sided and don't allow yourself or other folks for that matter look at the map to make a accurate decision on what is the best route to take or at least respect folks who decide to decide for themselves what direction they prefer to take... the narrow road that leads to eternal life that few choose or the wide and spacious door that leads to destruction. Young Timothy as well as Jesus made excellent decisions when very young. Whyis itdifficult 2 believe one isn't able 2day?
reasontomadness 3 years ago
Reason, as I responded to your comment, make your own videos to support this dangerous doctrine professed by the death cult. I will not allow you or anyone else to piggyback my video with your ignorant rant on the blood policy of the Watchtower. I have NOT blocked you, but keep it up and I could. Subscribers? Who cares? It's all about information. Get your own page to preach your views.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
Go ahead and not only block my reason to madness comments that allow open minded folks to make a true and honest opinion on what is true and what is false. You don't only block what you dislike because you suffer in folks not subscribing to your information, but... you go as far as erasing the posted comments. Who is defensive? No way am I arguing with you. All is reasoning and showing a difference of opinion based on biblical facts and good health decisions abstaining form possiblecontamination
reasontomadness 3 years ago
My goodness man... who is defensive? Who deleted the posted comments? Allow the folks to view valuable information that will help educate them on what are the negative results of a blood transfusion and see the benefits of one making a self individual and corageous decision in having transfusion free surgeries besides along with showing faithas Christ did to Almighty God with the hope of resurrection for not turning his back by disobeying the bibilcal instruction. Afraid of losing subscribers?
reasontomadness 3 years ago
If a person is in a situation of deciding on whether or not to take a blood transfusion... is there 100% guarantee he will live? For how long? If the person goes forward accepting all risk without the blood transfusion, will the doctor give his 100% utilizing other methods? If the person dies remaining faithful, do you the questioning person believe the person will be resurrected as was Jesus Christ who was faithful to his Father? It is a test of faith. Keep in mind JW parents want the best!!!
reasontomadness 3 years ago
Reasontomadness, here you go again commenting without watching the video or listening to it. The boy was not living with his JW parents. His parents opposed this stand. He was in the custody of his aunt. His parents were even barred from seeing him by the aunt and her friends. These silly comments could get you blocked. I can't suffer this kind of blind Watchtower defense.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
Beautiful child killed by a cult that has been totally proven wrong... sad!
georgiahuff 3 years ago 2
poor dennis lindberg when i was a little kid he was in my elementry school he was really nice to everybody and nows he gone wow that fast every body will miss him
1chubbykins1 3 years ago 2
i still would have been friends with him if he took the blood transfision but then again i have a different religion
LSlostsanity 3 years ago
This makes me appreciate my parents a bit more. They're Jehovah's Witnesses and even though I'm gay, even though I've abandoned the cult (they don't know I'm an atheist) they still love me.
Even as screwed up as my parents are, they exemplify the concept of (reasonably) unconditional love. They are more loving than the God they worship, and I wish they would see that.
someweirdgayguy 3 years ago
i knew this kid he was a friend of mine, i went to school with him. and the day after he died everyone came to school crying. these past months have been depressing expecialy since i moved and i dont have anyone who knows whats happened to talk to. it sucks.
LSlostsanity 3 years ago
One thing that hurt me very much was watching the children being made -- forced -- to go door to door with the adults. They HATED it and would often pretend to be hungry, or thirsty or have to use the bathroom and I heard over and over again "Are we almost done?" I was in the car many times with children who were actually spanked for making a fuss about going door to door. I think this is child abuse.
nomoreknocking 3 years ago
Children also whine when they have to go shopping
zombie900 3 years ago
Don't compare going shopping with the forcing of knocking on doors and even trying to push literature off on people - assigning a "sales" job to kids. I've known teenagers who absolutely refused to talk at the door - they would go door to door with another person because they were forced to do so by the elders and their parents but refused to say one word. The "whining" excuse doesn't fly with teens. - nor with younger children.
nomoreknocking 3 years ago 2
I'll compare whatever I bloody well like thanks.
Also we don't sell the magazines. You guys will try amd find anything to make us look bad won't you no matter how harmless it is.
zombie900 3 years ago
The literature is sold to the congregations and they certainly do receive a bill and must pay it to the Watchtower. Often times in my congregation the donations did not make up the total amount of the bill and we had to fork up money to pay it. Fortunately, we had some elders who were affluent and could afford to put in the extra money the Watchtower demanded for the literature. I know because I am married to a former elder. Both of us have escaped from the mind controlling cult of the WT.
nomoreknocking 3 years ago
The guys username says it all doesn't it?
zombie900
someweirdgayguy 3 years ago
Just like yours, Zombie (brain-dead).
nomoreknocking 3 years ago
hahaha
LSlostsanity 3 years ago
oops!,,, "sequitur"
pjkilmer 3 years ago
onobonobo, truthbook, nomoreknocking (no more knocking, get it?) these are open minded listeners & learners speaking sound reasoning & doing for themsleves. but lines of reasoning like that of say,,, firebreatherhwm, are so non-sequitar, so closed. by definition, open minded means to open to new ideas w/o prejudice or bias. a belief for which there is no evidence & in the teeth of contradicting evidence is as bias as it gets. not accepting real evidence is as prejudiced as it gets. open!
pjkilmer 3 years ago
This is a response to pjkilmer. I was able to get free by reading a book called "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz. He was on the Governing Body of the JW's. I was already questioning so many things I saw and I was particularly touched in a very painful way by the unhappiness I saw among the young people, especially the teenagers. Reading that book was the best thing that ever happened to me and all I can say is that there is so much happiness in freedom!
nomoreknocking 3 years ago
┏━━━━━━━┓ ┏┓
┏┫ ┏┓ ┏┓ ┣┓ ┃┃
┗┫ ┃ ┣┛┏━━┻┃ ┃ ┗━━━┛ ┃ ┣━━ ┃ Good Stuff! ┗━━━┳━━━┛ ┣━━ ┃ ┏━━ ▇▇▇━━━━━━━━━┛
WatchtowerLemming 3 years ago
Dennis Had his own choice, All his Friends at LVMS think he choice the right thing even tho we miss him.
We miss you Dennis in High School
RIP
JaredxJansenxx 3 years ago
hi jared its me rob hulse from cross country in 7th grade. i miss him too, i hope everyone in mount vernon is doing alright, i was hoping to come to mount vernon over the summer but it didnt happen. i hope i get to see you guys some time soon.
anyone else who gives this comment a thumbs down is stupid and shouldnt even be looking at this because you obveiously doesnt know dennis
RIP Dennis
LSlostsanity 3 years ago
Is your stupid religion more important than a young man´s life, jehovists?!
RatafakTehPlachta 3 years ago
Truthbookblues, how about quoting some statistics for the readers (+ sources)?
Number of people DEAD due to watchtower interpretation of the 'dont-eat-blood' scripture? I've seen a list of over 100 names somewhere)
Number of estimated suicides of young people to date, after having been 'shunned in the name of god', also actively encouraged by the watchtower printed word and practiced by its zealous followers in the name of god?
onobonobo 3 years ago
I was a JW for several years and during that time I knew of four suicides by young people who were disfellowshipped and shunned and who committed suicide. The father of one of the victims (an elder) later stated if he had it to do over again he would never shun his daughter -- but he learned that too late. I am only one person out of millions of JW's - so how many suicides are there really by those who lose everything through shunning? I expect in the thousands. The JW cult is evil.
nomoreknocking 3 years ago 3
wow! just curious, how'd you break free? (congrats)
pjkilmer 3 years ago
I read a book called "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz (nephew of WT president Fred Franz). It led me down the road to freedom. I was already questioning the WT because of so many things I saw that were wrong and I saw so many unhappy kids and their unhappiness touched me in a painful way. It was first because of the children that I started questioning.
nomoreknocking 3 years ago 2
I've heard a little about Franz and his story but haven't read his book, yet. I had the greatest relationship/romance in my hands with a gorgeous woman til she told me that she was raised a JW and that she was going back to the religion. I read as much of the stories & doctrines as I could & must say it was haunting, even more so when I saw how she changed for the worse. Our potential has been replaced w the stygian doctrines of the JW's. It helps to see people like you with the intelligence to
pjkilmer 3 years ago
to see thru indoctrination & question it & break free. It's very obvious to any1 outside the JW bubble, just like it would be for any1 outside the mormon or muslim bubble, to see that they're robbing humanity of their freedom. But most of the people on the inside are blinded by their faith. I hope u spread ur story. maybe we can cure our species from this social disease.
pjkilmer 3 years ago
I feel very sorry for your girlfriend - she should also read Franz' book. It would be a real eye-opener for her. But I do admit that breaking away is very, very hard even if you know in your heart that their doctrines are wrong. When I learned about Franz' book, I went to a library all the way on the other side of my city because I was so scared that another JW who knows me might see me and see the book I was checking out and report me to the elders. And I am an adult woman!!!
nomoreknocking 3 years ago
However, once I was able to free myself from this dangerous cult, happiness flowed over me like a river and hasn't stopped!!!!
nomoreknocking 3 years ago 5
wow! it's so good to hear that and it's good that you're sharing your story because you never know who it might help to break free & get their lives back. unfortunately, my girl (no more) followed what i read abt the JW's to the tee unwilling to even look at anythg critical of the WT. & jst like you said, she was scared of being spotted by anthr JW doing somthg as innocent as being hand in hand with the man that loved her w/a passion and for keeps. as if the natural romance on the way to
pjkilmer 3 years ago
marriage was bad because she might be fornicating, which she was counseled abt. and it was that kind of relationship that we both thought this was it and everything was story book like. the one & only thing that destroyed us was the JW's. i agree w you that the JW cult is evil! all religions enjoy special respect in this country, against the 1st amendment, and keeping silent abt them is the worst thing we can do. thank you for sharing!!!
pjkilmer 3 years ago
"...they didn't want God's name put in "their" bible..."
Branding of God, how selfish.
God, Our Heavenly Father, Our Lord, to 'brand' like this is so Coca Cola.
Jesus Christ specifically invited followers to address his Father as "OUR Father", and not as a 'brand name'.
Would Jesus approve of the watchtower?
Instead of encouraging inter-faith worship, it is exclude anyone who does not use their brand of god.
This false exclusiveness is the #1 most important thing jws are led to beleive.
onobonobo 3 years ago
The best way to get information about a subject or religion is go to that person or grouop of people and ask them. May you should all contact a local Kingdom Hall speak with one of the leaders or even send a letter to the Watchtower Society in Brooklyn NY. With that, I think this has been enough info to get people to think for themselves, So I won't make any further comments on this subject, it's a waste of time to those who won't learn, listen, and do for themselves.
firebreatherhwm 3 years ago
firebreatherwm you've just been disfellowshipped. How's it feel?
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
"best way to get information is go to that person or group of people and ask them"
Yes, if you want selected, biased, twisted information to form your a conclusions from. We all know how propaganda can be used to lead the masses to beleive something not true, without the need to actually tell lies.
Readers, bear in mind not to be put off being critical, if something really is valid, it will stand up to our scrutiny & close examination, without us being put off being critical of it
onobonobo 3 years ago
firebreatherwm claimed that the watchtower church: "... are the 2nd fastest growing religion in the world..."
When I asked for the source of this 'information' and whether he regarded it as "credible", he declined to and then blocked me.
Well there you are Readers, that says it all doesn't it?
onobonobo 3 years ago
Here are proper statistics:
Nearly 7000 spoken languages in the world, with 300 of them spoken in London alone.
(source Ethnologue: Languages of World
15th ed)
Global product marketing by organisations is primarily concerned to maximise net revenue, and not to provide product coverage. 'branded god' products are no exception.
Fiscal year 1997/8, before becoming charitable status to evade taxation, total net assets of the watchtower society was $634 million (source: NYSE)
onobonobo 3 years ago
ononobono, Australia, at the coming of the first white man, had 500 separate languages in a totoal population of about 500,000 people for the entire continent. And I'm not even counting all the dialects!
coralarch 3 years ago
onobono, they seem to confuse quantity with quality, don't they? Muslims claim to be No 1 in the growth industry- but that's because of their high birthrate, and is not due to conversions.
coralarch 3 years ago
"..Ps 83:18 why they use the name..."
Thats only a "believer's version", created by jw church leadership after it 1st adopted in 1930's.
Real reason is simple. EXCLUDE other churches (i.e. IBSA, going strong today) using Watchtower's "exclusive brand name" for god the watchtower considers its own.
Under leadership of their 'Pope' (Judge Rutherford), the threat of losing control of this intellectual property was reduced by transferring it to jws.
Then a bible verse located to make it stick
onobonobo 3 years ago
Comments about Cults (i.e. jw's) are so much like the story of the King's New Clothes.
One of first things most Cults do is lead their new recruits to believe "since they are specially chosen by god, the devil (very angry you found 'truth') will try all he can to trick you, increasing each day".
These text comments I write will of course be are perceived as being "influenced by the devil" by cult members.
I wouldn't otherwise be bothering with this, but I'm researching about cults.
onobonobo 3 years ago 2
"..if they do not have the answer..."
Every salesman is taught if every question is 'answered', the product will be sold. High Control Groups like watchtower know this full well, as well as being trained to put across 'ideas' convincingly, living & breathing their merchandise, are highly trained in manipulating conversations into delivering a stock of ready answers. This even includes a selection of ready 'answers' for for when there is no answer. Of course they are "receptive to questions"
onobonobo 3 years ago 3
"you should be talking to the person you study with"
That's what people say when while they are being hooked.
Well good luck to you, I wish you well, I hope you are prepared to spend the rest of your life having no part of humanity, attending 4+ meetings a week, not celebrating special days like mothers fathers and birthdays, and discover for yourself first hand what it is like, such as the torn families for starters, you'll find out for yourself, but by then you will find you cannot leave
onobonobo 3 years ago
"...contact a witness and ask them..."
I hope you are kidding?
You mean like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman.. and expect an unbiased opinion about the product they are selling?
The only people likely fall into this "ask the seller" trap are those in a vulnerable state in their lives, easily led and manipulated, these people are not mentally able to resist very highly trained psychological techniques used to sell this 'branded god' product to mostly vulnerable people
onobonobo 3 years ago 2
"...contact a witness and ask them..."
I hope you are kidding..
You mean just like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman?.. and expect an unbiased opinion about the product they are selling?
The only people likely fall into this "ask the seller" trap are those in a vulnerable state in their lives, easily led and manipulated, these people are not mentally able to resist very highly trained psychological techniques used to sell this 'branded god' product to vulnerable people
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo wrote 'like you would ask a used Car or Double Glazing Salesman'
I was just about to say big difference is they finish after 8 hours shift, but i remembered know a used car salesmen who also lives it and every waking hour too just like J-Ws do. Of course he will say he "is just doing a service to the public", just like J-W say they are just there to "teach"
Yes a used-car Salesperson....! i like it, that is so accurate way of describing it! genius
studiosequencer 3 years ago
there are very close similarities between watchtower cult and the catholics, they both are authoritarian pyramid leadership structure beleiving the leadership is 'chosen by god', but in other ways very different, i.e. the way they deal with sexual abuse of minors by church elders, the catholic are public about what they are doing about it, but watchtower are complete DENIAL, they have to protect a 'brand image' at all costs, they channel a lot of their donated cash into out-of-court settlements
onobonobo 3 years ago
Sorry No victim here, it's called personal choice. Even before I knew who JW was I wouldn't take blood. Jesus gave 2 new commandments while on the earth. "Love One Another" and "Do to others as You would have them do to you" It's not for us as mere humans to question their beliefs, I know of many cases where Dr's said blood was needed and it was refused, the patient survived and is better now than ever before. Transplants? What you never heard of the jarvis heart and such? Get Educated!!
firebreatherhwm 3 years ago
Yes there is a victim. When there is no alternative, the choice is 1. a 'spiritual death' or 2. a real death with a 'hope'.
This is all because a major belief was artifically engineered with an obvious motive, and that is to do virtually the same thing the Pagans once used to do for their gods.
Pagans don't kill their kids now instead they are leading the movement to protect the planet from selfish 'christians' burning fossil fuel going to 5 meetings every week, all to recruit more members
onobonobo 3 years ago
I am Not a JW, however I understand their stance on blood. There is a passage in the book of Romans which basically says that taking blood of another person into your own body is wrong, therefore the stance on Blood. My personel belief is that at age 14 they have been educated enough to make that decision on their own. If I were to be put in a situation that required I would refuse it, because there are so many other things that can be used to accomplish the same thing without using blood.
firebreatherhwm 3 years ago
You too have fallen victim to Watchtower propaganda. Simply admitting that there is some risk to a blood transfusion does not make it unbiblical. Accepting one scripture twisted to support a failed dogma is not the realm of the educated. I suppose the use of the same scriptures to prohibit transplants would make sense to you too? Fact is, they forbid transplants as they did blood until "New Light" when a governing body member needed a kidney transplant. Isn't God good? C'mon, pull your head out.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
"understand their stance on blood" Well that sums up the fact most people won't ever 'go against bible scripture', no matter how twisted and how out of biblical context that scripture is presented. Of course those twisting the scriptures will lead followers to believe "the bible is twisted" and only THEY have god's blessing. The bottom line is it's the MOTIVE for scripture twisting which is the real issue, it's what organized religion has to GAIN from it that matters.
In this case, sacrifice
onobonobo 3 years ago
It's a known fact when marketing a branded product, by getting users to make a sacrifice, they beleive in it more. Pay more for something you believe it's better quality. It's difficult to admit you are wrong after when you make a sacrifice, ask any victim of a con man.
Branded god products are no exception.
onobonobo 3 years ago
One of the things that are interesting to us is not only does firebreathermhw believe crazy statistics like "2nd fastest religion in the world", that allegedly he/she is a teacher too. Well I guess that is one way for young people to develop and hone their BS-detectors, that is be exposed to BS teacher while at school.
onobonobo 3 years ago
"in Romans"
Watchtower twist again, but this time instead of being the usual over-literal interpretation, this time it's done 'holy koran and use modesty' style.
The holy bible says:
EATING blood (as food). Unless you are an alien from outer space you already know that this means taking it orally, and allowing it to pass into the stomach and then digesting it, whereupon it is broken down as food, eaten, yes just like when a jw eats a rare steak with this same red fluid dripping from it.
onobonobo 3 years ago
They mis-use the word asbstian.
biblical context meaning of the scripture is all to do with types of food which can and cant be eaten, not abstained from if you want to go by the book to the letter in fine detail.
but then the Kor-an says don't eat pork or somethinng like that, but islams choose not to eat pork anyway.
interestingly the difference/sameness is/was choosing which kind of "death" you would like
studiosequencer 3 years ago
Utterly Atrocious- how could anyone in the name of a "loving" God decide it's correct to shun people for taking blood transfusions to save their life?
cmmndrblu 3 years ago
JWinCT,,your a fruit.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
i feel sorry for the 'deluded hopefuls' jwinct and people like that, they themselves know deep down inside they are deluded, but they still keep going because they are deeply terrified to ever ask themselves a simple question, that is whether all the time they'd spent preaching, all the sacrifices they'd made so far, can in any way affect being able to admit they are on the wrong path.
studiosequencer 3 years ago
studiosequencer,,,,religion is find if you are old enough to make a informed decision ,,that cult brain washes kids by nightmares they choke the kids to death with fear ,they love to take a pretty gild and stand on a corner to get freaks to join ,it is some thing that i seen many times it makes me sick to think that a kid is the bait ,it drags in unstable perverts at best ,,kids and religion is child abuse.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
The kids, I've heard about their implanted phobias, how they are scared of anything religious and believe demons are real.
I understand that in the Watchtower cult there is a weird 'group-love' going on where all the followers each have the same mannerisms, they talk the same way, they act the same way. I've seen some of it, it is completely amazing how predictable any Watchtower cult member behaves the same in a given situation, it's as if you know one, you know all of them.
studiosequencer 3 years ago 2
studiosequencer, word for that is ,,,,,,,,,,Cult
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
While on theology, I'll just mention the 2 things most important to the watchtower cult are
1. increasing world religious intolerance and sabotaging inter-faith worship by having their 'own brand' of private god, marketed like microsoft with brand loyalty.
and 2. obsessively recruiting more people
The rest of it is supporting the above, which will include prohibiting celebrations such as birthdays, father's day, mother's day, etc., avoiding higher education, list goes on...
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo,,,The present study of 50 Jehovah's Witnesses admitted to the Mental Health Service facilities of Western Australia suggests that members of this section of the community are more likely to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital than the general population. Furthermore, followers of the sect are three times more likely to be diagnosed as suffering from schizophrenia and nearly four times more likely from paranoid schizophrenia than the rest of the population at risk.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
Also, borderline personality disorder is very prevelant among watchtower followers. (note they think they're "following jesus", but in reality only the bits of jesus that HQ pick out that best serve the organization)
You'll also find that the image of the 'brand-name' is of a higher priority than the patient's own health, in mental hospital they will often identify themselves as 'other religion', and deny themselves treatment opportunities they would get if they were more honest.
onobonobo 3 years ago
religion and kids is child abuse no other way to describe it
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
"religion and kids is child abuse no other way to describe it"
And watchtower followers are effectively holding their OWN children to ransom to force mankind ("ungodly world as JWCT puts it) to finding loopholes of making life-saving blood transfusions, which the watchtower HQ in NY, plug up again each time, separating themsleves from the responsiblity, forcing the JW kids back on the front line. HQ give them a hobson's choice: die or Die, they have to choose which.
Glad I'm not a JW
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo,,,you bet watchtower is sick stuff they sell their souls to get a candy bar but won,t save a life when it comes to simple science ,,letting a kid die is the ultimate
straw ,they use kids like garbage cans ,,kids need to grow up and be able to make a informed decision ,not shoved down their necks and choked to death.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
The sad thing about watchtower-followers, is all they have is 'hope', nothing more in their religious pyramid scheme. Just like the compulsive gambler hopes to win big jackpot, deludedly thinking the odds improve the longer he's doing it for or because of the work that he's put into studying Form. Compulsive gamblers nearly always have a 'system' to follow religiously.
People like JWCT do mean well in their own minds, but they will still grow old and die, however deluded they make themselves.
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo,,you know i have put a lot of time into thinking about the victims of religions
they are the ones who tell the story's the best,their graves are testament .Their friends out side of the jw monster are the ones i know the best ,kids are brainwashed to accept anything the religion says if the religion say they must all commit suicide the parents will murder the kid rather than have them survive ,thats called brain washing ,,JW kids are slaves to something they have no understanding of.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
Yes, I've heard that about the kids, they are brought up in a closed community where there is lots of psychological manipulation going on among the adults all the time and on the kids, the kids role-play out some really weird 'head' stuff when they are playing. I know of a little girl who didn't want to go to the watchtower church, the only way she could make herself heard was by threatening to slash her parents with a knife. Of course they'll always say 'it's the devil' doing that.
onobonobo 3 years ago 2
Members of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith may be a risk factor predisposing to a schizophrenic illness. Further studies would be interesting in investigating whether pre-psychotic people are more likely to join the sect than normal people and what part (if any) membership has in bringing about such a breakdown.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
"predisposing to a schizophrenic illness"
There's accredited scholarly studies in this area and can be easily obtained if you're licensed mental health practitioner. The watchtower cult a useful study resource for the profession.
I've seen excerpts reporting there have been studies with watch-tower church followers having several different personalities and could switch between them at will.
BPD diagnosis is also very common among JW's, but I think 'BPD' is a label for "watchtower mentality"
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo,,,,it is clear that members of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement have a high admission to the Mental Health Services,showing a clear indication that they are targeting the mentally disabled .
vbnjhgfbnjjhg 3 years ago
"Watchtower-followers targeting those with poor mental health"
As you'd expect, they are the unfortunate people the most susceptible & JWs are attracted to them like flies.
All figures quite well when you profile the average JW, all external symptoms fit.
As well as their obvious mental health problems, they are generallly underachievers with no long-term outlook in their lifecycle, i.e. poor at spelling and grammar (except for watchtower HQ's writers I know here on youtube moonlighting!)
onobonobo 3 years ago
In the ku'ran it doesn't actually say in it muslim women need to completely cover, it just says "use appropriate modesty" or something. (Muslim: please correct me?)
In JW theology, bible verses are badly mis-quoted by HQ to engineer their doctrine:
1. Excessively literal, such as the hebrew word for 'god' believed to be god's christian name, but actually used to 'brand' god for false exclusivity
2. the other extreme, i.e. the bible says "don't EAT blood", but believed like ku'ran/modesty
onobonobo 3 years ago
Ah yes, the general resurrection, brought to you by the same people who taught that Pastor Russell was resurrected after he died and was overseeing the preaching work from heaven. Oh yes, the same people who taught that Armageddon would come in 1914 and 1925. Wow, we have reason to trust in these teachers. ...and for your information he is actually dead. His body is rotting in the ground. He is dead in this way to his parents who didn't get to be with him when he died. Praise The Watchtower!
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
"...the same people who taught that Pastor Russell was resurrected after he died..."
This is completely true, I didn't believe my own eyes at first when I read the watchtower magazine saying this, printed by a genuine 100% watchtower printing press.
It's proabably just as well watchtower followers don't believe in heaven, otherwise up there right now will be all the different software versions of 'the truth' up there, each one having an equal duty to preach their 'the truth'. What HELL!
onobonobo 3 years ago
JW do believe in heaven
firebreatherhwm 3 years ago
"JW do believe in heaven" Ask a jw if they will 'go to heaven'
The belief in 'heaven' changes during the pre-planned indoctrination process of a new recruit. Starts off 'yes, heaven exists & I'm going there', because early on 'treasures in heaven' was mentioned so as not to alienate them. Then after a while allowed to realise this 'heaven' is only for a select few. (Actually for an older generation of IBSA's who'd refused to accept the wacthtower 'no-heaven' doctrine as a 'consolation prize')
onobonobo 3 years ago 2
We all will die but they never said that Armageddon would come in 1914 or 1925, you better do some more research. Try calling one of the Elders and asking them actually try calling the Watchtower Society and get a one-on-one interview with someone who really knows the facts. You apparently are making up things. My education is a study of all Religions I do not look at heresay and the like I go right to the source. By the way most JW are very educated people, so drop the mental part to.
firebreatherhwm 3 years ago
The Finished Mystery 1917 p 569
This vision of the prophet Ezekiel depicts the established theocratic Kingdom of God on earth, civil and religious, spiritual and earthly .. The Temple .. is a type and symbol of 'better things to come', after the wars, revolutions and anarchy of the period from 1914 to 1925 have passed.
Truthbookblues 3 years ago
"never said Armageddon would come"
It's really up to you what you want to believe about failed prophecies, but be it on your conscience if you're considering leading others to believe "they never said", without checking the truth.
The primary sources printed by them, together with our understanding of human nature makes it very clear about how watchtower led its followers to believe.
Millions of jws living back then had took these beliefs to their graves thinking they would never die.
onobonobo 3 years ago
"calling one of the elders"
"calling the watchtower Society"
After listening recorded (secret) conversations & having a go myself, the same conclusion as almost anyone, like talking to a politician or someone high up in scientology or mormon.
Evasive. Spin. Every sentence has just about every word meaning twisted. If you get through all the evasion the conversation ends up 'take it up with god then' which shows really how irresponsible the leaders are. Yes call elder if you are easily led.
onobonobo 3 years ago
"apparently making up things"
Words printed on watchtower primary sources don't just reaarange or erase themselves, they still say the words the watchtower had printed on them.
After that all that is needed is the distorted worldview (controlled by the watchtower) to do the rest of the interpretation.
The watchtower actively discouraged further education prior to '1975' and encouraged recruiting, then blamed its followers for believing them.
They still actively discourage further education
onobonobo 3 years ago
"By the way most JW are very educated people"
If you look at the standard of english grammar and spelling among the text comments of american jw's who are trying to defend watchtower core beliefs, you will find that it is consistently poor, compared to average.
The watchower actively discourages further education, it's a proven fact over and over again. There is even here on youtube a video from the watchtower themselves saying how they 'discourage further education' in 2007.
onobonobo 3 years ago 2
He's only dead to this ungodly world. They think he's gone for dead, or something. He'll be back soon in the general resurrection of mankind, soon to happen. Where will YOU be then? Probably nowhere to be found.
JWinCT 3 years ago
If you are a JWinCT please don't say something like: "Probably nowhere to be found." That's not our call. Please educate WHY we don't accept blood transfusions.
biblestudent2 3 years ago
The child is dead, nothing will ever bring the child back, PROVEN FACT
"ungodly world" PROVE IT
"He'll be back soon" (what? like the way a suicide bomber is convinced they will be in paradise before drop of blood touches the ground?) PROVE IT
"soon to happen" FACT: Watch-tower followers have been saying "soon" for the last 100 years. Some saying "soon" right up to their dying breath on their own deathbeds. Watchtower followers even 'preach' from their grave, another proven fact.
onobonobo 3 years ago 3
"Where will YOU be then? Probably nowhere to be found"
JWCT what gives you the right to be judge, jury and executioner of a fellow human being? Eh?
And just how exactly are YOU so sure about what your false god is going to do on your behalf?
Is it because YOU YOURSELF, JWinCT are a part of this false god which is marketed with a brand-name?
onobonobo 3 years ago
onobonobo,,,,Since cults are typically short on grace and long on law (mixed with group obligations, guilt-inducing teachings, and isolationism), I have always assumed that this unnecessary difficulty would lead to emotional and mental problems.
USoldOutCanadians 3 years ago
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Wow. I thought I'd run into every brainless moron on Youtube. Guess I was wrong. oingoboingo takes the cake!!!
JWinCT 3 years ago