After hearing some other recordings, I have new found appreciation for how smalin plays this. He plays it very well. Just wish the recording quality was higher. Thanks for doing all this, smalin! I've developed a great love of classical music since finding your channel.
I think it's funny at the end where the pattern doesn't complete and it looks like the yellow notes are going berzerk trying to get the blue one to come back. Just me :)
I mostly agree that you should be able to do what you want with the piece, Smalin, but I don't think there's such a thing as "old enough to have an opinion".
@OrgaMechabot this piece is a joke, a good one too. Die Große Fugue is a wonderful and revolutionary piece that Beethoven was very proud of, though (I think) it wasn't recieved as well as he thought it would among the public.
Haha, Musician who practiced for 40years and plays what he wants to hear, gets criticized for it, around these days you apparently cant express your self in music.
@smalin You are obviously a very fine pianist, with fleet fingers and a very nice sound. You handle the difficulties of this piece impressively. I have one question/suggestion about a musical decision: why do you play the high Fs more softly than the preceding A, as in the second bar? The Fs are marked with a sforzando. Beethoven clearly wants the Fs at least as loud as the As. You also play the A and F as if they are slurred. They are not. This is related to not doing the sforzando.
@smalin Well, I think you should respect Beethoven's markings. As I said, you are clearly a fine pianist, but he knows better than you do. I think if you play what is written, your performance will be better than it is, and it is already very good.
One more point -- Beethoven used sforzandi in a very original way. They are part of what makes his music so unique, and are highly characteristic of him. All the more reason to do it his way.
@smalin I do dislike it. I don't think what you are doing makes musical sense. The phrase ascends to that highest note. That's where it goes, and then it cascades down from there. What you are doing sounds contrived, unnatural to me. But that's all beside the point. Beethoven was one of the supreme geniuses mankind has produced and you are substituting your own judgment for his about how his music should be played. Do you also have a different idea about General Relativity than Einstein's?
@donaldcallen It's not beside the point; we shouldn't to bow in blind obedience to Beethoven's notation, but try to understand its intent as part of making our own sense of the music. I've played it Beethoven's way, and I've played it my way, and I prefer my way. If you like Beethoven's way better, fine --- you're entitled to an opinion too. Yes, the phrase ascends, but in my performance it ascends as a stone thrown would, losing momentum at the top of the arc; to me, that seems more natural.
@smalin I want to be clear that I'm not trying to be snotty in this. I don't know how old you are, but you are obviously very talented but I believe your thinking is off the mark. Musical notation isn't rich enough for a great composer to tell you exactly how to play his/her music, so the performer adds to what is on the page. But you shouldn't countermand it, though there are famous performers, e.g., Horowitz, who do. If you are Horowitz, you can get away with it. The rest of us should not try.
@donaldcallen I'm not as old as you, but I'm twenty-five years older than Beethoven was when he wrote this piece (in other words, old enough to have an opinion). If you check out my other performances, you'll see they often disregard some aspects of the notation (or respect aspects other performers disregard). Whether Horowitz or I "get away with it" should be judged on the result, not the reputation. (n.b. Yoshi5020's comment to my video of Scriabin's B major prelude.)
@smalin So you think you have a better idea about Beethoven than Beethoven. That's remarkable. I can see that we're not going to get anywhere here, because our disagreement about the role of an interpreter and about who is a genius and who is not is fundamental, so I'll stop.
@donaldcallen I'm not the genius Beethoven was, but I don't have to be a genius to have my own taste in music and my own ideas about interpretation, and you should respect that.
@smalin Ok, one more. I am not "disrespecting" your opinion, I'm disagreeing with it. Obviously you are right -- it's a free country and you can play this music however you like.
The funny part of this is is that I really like your playing (I listened to the Scriabin -- beautifully done, though I'm not quite ready to declare you the winner over Horowitz :-). I simply think that allowing your preference to override the clear direction of a genius like Beethoven in a crucial detail has ...
@donaldcallen My question, then, is: what if you liked the way I play it *better* than the way Beethoven wrote it? Would you still want me to play it Beethoven's way instead?
@smalin Yes, because I would want to be exposed to the way of genius, as opposed to limiting myself by my own reaction. Chances are very likely, I'd be improved by the experience.
BTW, why stop at altering Beethoven's dynamic indications? Why not change the notes, too?
@donaldcallen I meant: if you heard it both ways, and decided you liked the non-Beethoven way better. (People usually prefer music to be played the way they've heard it in the past; Pachelbel's Canon is typically played much slower than Pachelbel intended; manys viewer criticized my video with a performance at something closer to P's tempo as "too fast." So, it's unlikely that you'll ever be able to appreciate my version.) And yes, like Beethoven did, I often improvise when I play his music.
If you improvise when you play Beethoven, it shouldn't be called, say, "Beethven's Bagatelle Op. 35/5", but "smalin's Improvisation on Beethven's Bagatelle Op. 35/5" or some such. Analogous to the Godowsky Studies on the Chopin Etudes.
As for tending to like what you're used to, that's true. But if you're open-minded, you re-think when presented with new information. Example: I've known the Schumann Fantasy since I was a kid. (More)
@smalin Almost everyone (Horowitz, Pollini, Rubinstein, Richter) takes a diminuendo 5 bars before the end of the 3rd mvt. Schumann didn't write it and Clara says nothing about this in her edition. I always played the dim. because that's what I heard great pianists doing. A friend, who is a good musician, disagreed, thought it should be played as written. I tried it and hated it. But I kept trying it and the more I did, the more sense it made. I'm now convinced the dim. is lily-gilding (more)
@smalin and destroys the subito P in the next-to-last bar. My point is that these people were all a lot smarter than you or I and they knew what they were doing.
@donaldcallen Beethoven was a greater composer than I (have you played my Fantasy in F?), but that doesn't mean I should take his word as final --- any more than performers who play my music should follow the markings blindly. When Beethoven reworked his music, he changed lots of things; when I revisit pieces I wrote thirty years ago, I often disagree with my markings. (It's not like I ignored Beethoven's marking; I played it as written for years; but then found something I liked better.)
@smalin "have you played my Fantasy in F?" No, but I will. I'll ignore everything you wrote -- notes, dynamic marks, phrasing marks, etc. -- and I'll play what ever I want. It'll be crap, but I'll put it up on youtube as your Fantasy in F :-)
Sure, Beethoven reworked his pieces. But the first versions he did were better than anything you or I could do in a lifetime of trying. Of COURSE you should follow his markings blindly. He knew better than you, MUCH better. You're good, but not that good.
So wait... A composer who spent 6 month writing a piece has a better insight than a perfomer who has performed the piece all his life ? hmmmmm I can understand your point of view but I do think that we can take liberties with pieces... or else we would be robots... and a computer then would be the best pianiste ever...
@LLPorduction Yes, a composer who is one of the greatest geniuses the human race has produced has a better insight than a performer who is not a genius and not even well-known among today's pianists. If this performer were Pollini or Brendel, I'd say the same thing (though neither of them would take the liberty he did); this performer is not in a class with either.
Interpretation is one thing. Doing the opposite of what a genius like Beethoven wrote is quite another. You miss that distinction.
@donaldcallen I can't really agree with this. There are many current examples of popular songs that only became popular after a cover was done that improved it. I don't see how the age of music would change this. Besides, the whole point of doing variations is to experiment with a theme. Most great pianists are famous not becuase of playing exactly what was written, but for playing the music with their own voice.
@Defenstrator Are you serious? You are comparing what's done with current popular songs to Beethoven? If you don't understand the difference, then we have nothing to discuss. Beethoven's Bagatelles aren't "variations" nor were they intended as such. And your statement about "most great pianists" is not correct. Yes, there are some who get away with that (e.g., Horowitz), but there are many, if not more, who play what is in the score and add their own artistry to it, without violating the (more)
@Defenstrator the explicit intentions of a great genius. Examples are Perahia, Pollini, Brendel.
I am not talking, by the way, about "playing exactly what is written". Musical notation isn't rich enough to allow a composer to specify every little nuance (s)he had in mind. (You can't play Bach exactly as written -- there isn't much there besides the notes.) But you CAN do what is explicitly written, and then add what is not written -- rubato, a little time, changes in color, etc.
@donaldcallen Beethoven is dead. Dead people have no rights. We don't have to respect his wishes. His music belongs to us now, and we may do with it what we like.
You can ask whether the interpretation is in good taste, or whether it's artistically consistent, meaningful, entertaining, thought-provoking, emotionally stirring (any one of these criteria is sufficient to make a good interpretation). Markings of dynamics, agocic and articulation are just means to an end.
@Timrath Wow. You and your cohorts, like the charming Chefodeath, completely miss the point. It has nothing to do with whether Beethoven is alive or dead or whether he has "rights". It has to do with the fact that Beethoven is one of the greatest, rarest geniuses the human race has produced, in a league with Bach, Newton, Einstein, Shakespeare and a few others. When confronted with the writings of such a genius, it is amazingly foolish to think you know better, to do the opposite.
@donaldcallen It is you who are missing the point, by a wide margin. Beethoven's greatness is not in dispute, neither by me, nor by Chefodeath, or by smalin. It is also of little relevance. Even if he were infallible, almighty and omniscient, (which he certainly wasn't - he, too, had his share of flaws, like every musician who ever lived) we still would have every right in the world to adapt, interpret, transcribe, parody, arrange, and yes, even make fun of his works, if we wish to.
It has has nothing at all to do with "knowing better". Nobody here claimed to know better. It's about wanting to do something different. Shed a new light on the piece, perhaps rejuvenate it after centuries of repetitive reiterations, adapt it to today's standard of taste. Do you seriously think that even Beethoven himself would say that what he wrote is the only possible legitimate, ultimative way to play his piece? How do you know that he wouldn't approve of what smalin did?
You seem to be unaware that, firstly, musicians in his time, just as they do now, liked to deviate from the score in often substantial ways. I have never read in any of his letters any complaint about that. He often complained about sloppy or flashy playing, but never about performers taking liberties. On the contrary, many, many great composers are known to have lauded performers for interpreting their works in ways that made them come out even better.
@Timrath Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean you know what he thought. And you seem unaware that Beethoven slaved over his works, writing and re-writing -- look at the notebooks. These works were very carefully considered, after much trial and error. I am not opposed to interpretation -- there's much that needs to be expressed in playing a work that can't be written. But when a Beethoven writes sf and the pianist instead backs away from the note and says I have a better idea??
@donaldcallen What's wrong with having a better idea? You quote Newton - a genious, no doubt. But much of what he said, we know today to be wrong. If everyone were to think like you, we would still vainly try to use newtonian physics to get our satellites into space, because no one would have dared to propose the theory of relativity. And no one would dare to standardise the English language, because, who are we to correct Shakespeare's erratic spelling?
@Timrath Newton wasn't wrong; his laws are an approximation that work just fine so long as you stay away from the sub-atomic and the speed of light. Just as a score is an approximation of what we ultimately hear. Again, that's why Brendel, Perahia and Pollini sound different in Beethoven, despite all being very respectful of the score.
I would add that you don't understand how I think well enough to make your own extrapolations of my thinking with any hope of their being correct.
@Timrath You are right that composers have been shown a better way by performers (e.g., Rachmaninoff accepting Horowitz' cuts and re-writing in the 2nd Sonata). But Rachmaninoff was alive to approve (or not) and Horowitz was a genius in his own right. This situation is different. Beethoven is dead, probably the only thing about which we agree. And smalin is not Horowitz.
@donaldcallen Since Beethoven is dead, we can never know either way. He might approve, he might disapprove; but he certainly can't complain any more. So, what's to stop us from trying out different approaches?
The ultimate criterion, however, is not whether Beethoven would like it, but whether we, the audience, like it. The audience always had, and always will have the last word. You didn't like it, and that's fine by me; I did like it, and this also has to be be fine by you.
@Timrath I agree with your last paragraph; that was never the issue, at least my issue. I am talking about one thing and you are talking about another. I am talking about the wisdom of ordinary folks, not Horowitzes, thinking they have a better idea than a genius. Simple. Do they have the right to think this? Of course. Is it smart? I don't think so.
I'd also suggest listening to a great pianist in this Bagatelle, one who reveres what's in the score, before you decide which way you prefer it.
@Timrath This is not about rights, speaking of point-missing. It's about art and how best to realize it. Of COURSE you all have the RIGHT to play it any way you choose. What I'm questioning is not your right, but smalin's (and, indirectly, your) judgment by doing the exact opposite of what was written by a genius of the magnitude of a Beethoven. Does Pollini do such things? Brendel? Schnabel? Perahia? Did Toscanini? Would you change the words of Shakespeare in the interest of "rejuvenation"?
@donaldcallen Yes, I would, if it would fit the occasion. And not only would I, but it has already been done many times.
But if we shouldn't change existing works, does that mean that you are also against arrangements, orchestrations, transcriptions?
What has Beethoven's genius have to do with anything? It is totally unacceptable to me that every single work of a genius should be beyond re-examination, adaptation or even improvement (NB that smalin never claimed to have "improved" it).
If you choose to play, say, Op. 111 and take liberties with the score (and we have pretty good evidence, lots of scholarship, concerning what Beethoven intended), play softly where Beethoven asks for forte, or alter his rhythms (smalin did both in the Bagatelle), then feel free, and I will feel free to completely ignore your performance.
@Defenstrator That is why Brendel and Pollini sound different in Beethoven, and both sound different from Schnabel or Richard Goode. All are great artists and their interpretations are valid. But to do what the person who posted this video did (and it's more than just the sforzando; there are distortions of the rhythm toward the end) is putting himself above Beethoven, which the great artists I mentioned earlier would never dream of having the arrogance to do.
@donaldcallen I'm also assuming that you disagree wholeheartedly with the renditions of Glenn Gould, for he too often "ignored" the markings of the composer. And on the subject of Beethoven surely you must notice how almost every pianist plays moonlight sonata wrong? Perhaps if you spent less time holding an air of austerity and learnt to accept differences in interpretation you'd enjoy your music more.
@Milligan1932 You are right about my opinion of Gould. I love his Bach, where he had virtually free rein, but his Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms are not worth even discussing, in my opinion (and I think you'll find that that's the opinion of most music critics).
@Milligan1932 Your little lecture completely misses my point, which I am going to re-state for the last time. Great performing artists -- Toscanini, Schnabel, Brendel, Schiff -- begin with the score and play what is written. That leaves an enormous amount of room for interpretation -- taking time, quality of sound, how loud is p or f, rubato, etc. But when someone like Beethoven writes forte, they play what they think is forte, not piano. To do otherwise is not interpretation, it's re-writing.
@donaldcallen Having read your comments I think I'll have to concede. You made some fair points. I still adore Gould's Beethoven (his Mozart is redoubtably awful). You say you love his Bach, but the sarabande from the first French suite? Along with others, he does not follow the instruction. I appreciate your opinion, but it is so different from mine I don't think they can be reconciled.
Seriously though, the variations in C minor? Gould is brilliant with them.
@Milligan1932 And I will return the favor and concede some points to you. With Gould, I was painting with a broad brush, because of the youtube message-size constraints. I don't agree about the Beethoven, but I think you are right about the Sarabande from the 1st French Suite. I also find him unconvincing in the great 5-voice C#-minor Fugue from Book 1 (I heard Schiff play it in Paris and the audience, myself included, was so stunned we didn't move for quite awhile; clapping didn't seem right).
@Milligan1932 I should add that the Beethoven I refer to is just the sonatas he recorded, and the Emperor he did with Stokowski. I don't know the recording of the Variations in C-minor, but I will try to find it. He and my teacher, Martin Canin, were friends, and so I've heard a lot of wonderful Gould stories over the years. He was a remarkable person and an amazing artist in the right music.
@donaldcallen This is why I like the music by Bach. No dynamics, no tempo marking, so you don't have dickhead purists coming in and telling how the piece is supposed to be played.
after having listened to noumerous versions, i must say, this is the best intepretation ive ever heard... Other artists, even well renowned (noone mentioned, noone forgotten). havent got the same feeeling as you, and treat this little masterpiece as its something to be played as fast as possible...
Maybe it just rings a bell. By siblings all try to make their own music and it always ends up sounding like Chopin or Tchaikovsky. It must ring a bell or something.
i dont think its from the moonlight sonata, i think its one of those general pieces of classical music thats used like in commercials so alot of people know it but dont know where it comes from.
at 2:42, in bethov's piece, it shuld really be ff, but hear it's played mezzo, like the rest, and personally, i find that the 3rd part, is not played like it shuld be, this is from Ludvig van Bethoven, not from mandelshon, we do not see the dramaticall part of it, do we?
The Bagatelles by Beethoven- being of the Opuses, 33, 119 and 126 - are very good piano pieces since the bagatelle is a light and mellow short piece written for the piano.
I was really looking forward to the part past 2:27 , because I read the comments first. And even when I was waiting for something to happen, it still caught em off guard. The repeating is just what makes this piece so funny. I forgot about the comments and thought I knew what was coming.
Sure, and this is certainly light-hearted in the A section (the B section is more ominous). But it's also funny; what happens between 2:27 and 2:45 is the punchline. If it doesn't make you laugh (or at least feel like laughing, or understand why somebody might laugh), you're not getting it.
Are you kidding? Just the opposite! If Beethoven were playing the piece on the piano, and nobody laughed at what happens between 2:27 and 2:45, he'd be disappointed, and think that his audience was a bunch of insensitive dolts.
Well then, it seems that I'm one of the few people that doesn't find this piece "funny". I really like it musically, but I don't really find it "funny".
This is really weird. If you carefully watch the animations until the end, the screen gets very DISTORTED, almost like an OPTICAL ILLUSION. Great piece!
slow movement of Beethovens 9th symhpony. If you look something for the piano then listen to the 3rd movement of Beethovens sonata op. 106 or 2nd mov. from op. 109
After hearing some other recordings, I have new found appreciation for how smalin plays this. He plays it very well. Just wish the recording quality was higher. Thanks for doing all this, smalin! I've developed a great love of classical music since finding your channel.
charlottedude 6 months ago
I know enough to know he's poking the hell out of somebody, but I don't know whom.
haakondahl 6 months ago
is the fucking master
kinosion 7 months ago
I think it's funny at the end where the pattern doesn't complete and it looks like the yellow notes are going berzerk trying to get the blue one to come back. Just me :)
Ianprime0509 7 months ago
this seems to have 2 amplitudes, pindrop and nuke
zilbiol 8 months ago
This is ridiculous, but is meant to be so. A bagatelle is an umpretentious composition, isn't it?
0101dicky 8 months ago
@0101dicky I don't think its ridiculous, I think its pretty original for its time.
Dolphidood 8 months ago
Hmm, quality is a bit low... But very good as well. Just like all of your work.
ClenkRS 8 months ago
I couldn't help laughing... absolute genius
Dolphidood 8 months ago
it sounds cheerful n jumpy
mymoi21 9 months ago
Are you of Polish ancestry then? Do you know where your family comes from?
vearthydotcom 10 months ago
@vearthydotcom My father's parents were from Poland; I don't remember where. I met his mother a few times. That's about it.
smalin 10 months ago
Are you a Pole?
MyLebar 11 months ago
@MyLebar I have lived in California my entire life.
smalin 11 months ago
It seems it was merely an exercise material... not for people to enjoy...
112237 1 year ago
Holy crap. After staring at the notes for so long, my screen looks like its warping...
StickFro 1 year ago
I like Beethoven but this piece sounds shit
pleasureman666 1 year ago
@pleasureman666 I didnt know shit sounded?
:)
NentendoLover3000 1 year ago
If this piece of music ever falls into the hands of an alien SETI project, I'll have a big laugh.
rmsluimers 1 year ago
This song is beyond genius.
danielkirk1 1 year ago
I can't believe Beethoven did such a difficult but cool piece, i am just crazed out.
P.S I love the "balloon projection" at start.
Laudan08 1 year ago
I mostly agree that you should be able to do what you want with the piece, Smalin, but I don't think there's such a thing as "old enough to have an opinion".
grands1am 1 year ago
increibleeeee!!!!
XgothicoX 1 year ago
Wow
mano6292 1 year ago
@OrgaMechabot this piece is a joke, a good one too. Die Große Fugue is a wonderful and revolutionary piece that Beethoven was very proud of, though (I think) it wasn't recieved as well as he thought it would among the public.
RectumPilum 1 year ago
looks like a super mario level
TalkingFTW 1 year ago
Haha, Musician who practiced for 40years and plays what he wants to hear, gets criticized for it, around these days you apparently cant express your self in music.
claus93Sethsen 1 year ago
@claus93Sethsen I was gonna say that exact thing.
RectumPilum 1 year ago
@OrgaMechabot The Grosse fuge is one of the most revolutionary pieces in music history..
NjallPiano 1 year ago
@smalin You are obviously a very fine pianist, with fleet fingers and a very nice sound. You handle the difficulties of this piece impressively. I have one question/suggestion about a musical decision: why do you play the high Fs more softly than the preceding A, as in the second bar? The Fs are marked with a sforzando. Beethoven clearly wants the Fs at least as loud as the As. You also play the A and F as if they are slurred. They are not. This is related to not doing the sforzando.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I don't have an answer, other than to say that I had a different idea about how to play the piece than Beethoven's.
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin Well, I think you should respect Beethoven's markings. As I said, you are clearly a fine pianist, but he knows better than you do. I think if you play what is written, your performance will be better than it is, and it is already very good.
One more point -- Beethoven used sforzandi in a very original way. They are part of what makes his music so unique, and are highly characteristic of him. All the more reason to do it his way.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Do you dislike the way I do it on its own merit? If so, please explain why you think Beethoven's way is better.
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin I do dislike it. I don't think what you are doing makes musical sense. The phrase ascends to that highest note. That's where it goes, and then it cascades down from there. What you are doing sounds contrived, unnatural to me. But that's all beside the point. Beethoven was one of the supreme geniuses mankind has produced and you are substituting your own judgment for his about how his music should be played. Do you also have a different idea about General Relativity than Einstein's?
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen It's not beside the point; we shouldn't to bow in blind obedience to Beethoven's notation, but try to understand its intent as part of making our own sense of the music. I've played it Beethoven's way, and I've played it my way, and I prefer my way. If you like Beethoven's way better, fine --- you're entitled to an opinion too. Yes, the phrase ascends, but in my performance it ascends as a stone thrown would, losing momentum at the top of the arc; to me, that seems more natural.
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin I want to be clear that I'm not trying to be snotty in this. I don't know how old you are, but you are obviously very talented but I believe your thinking is off the mark. Musical notation isn't rich enough for a great composer to tell you exactly how to play his/her music, so the performer adds to what is on the page. But you shouldn't countermand it, though there are famous performers, e.g., Horowitz, who do. If you are Horowitz, you can get away with it. The rest of us should not try.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I'm not as old as you, but I'm twenty-five years older than Beethoven was when he wrote this piece (in other words, old enough to have an opinion). If you check out my other performances, you'll see they often disregard some aspects of the notation (or respect aspects other performers disregard). Whether Horowitz or I "get away with it" should be judged on the result, not the reputation. (n.b. Yoshi5020's comment to my video of Scriabin's B major prelude.)
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin So you think you have a better idea about Beethoven than Beethoven. That's remarkable. I can see that we're not going to get anywhere here, because our disagreement about the role of an interpreter and about who is a genius and who is not is fundamental, so I'll stop.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I'm not the genius Beethoven was, but I don't have to be a genius to have my own taste in music and my own ideas about interpretation, and you should respect that.
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin Ok, one more. I am not "disrespecting" your opinion, I'm disagreeing with it. Obviously you are right -- it's a free country and you can play this music however you like.
The funny part of this is is that I really like your playing (I listened to the Scriabin -- beautifully done, though I'm not quite ready to declare you the winner over Horowitz :-). I simply think that allowing your preference to override the clear direction of a genius like Beethoven in a crucial detail has ...
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@smalin resulted in a performance that isn't as good or effective (in my opinion, of course) as it could be.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen My question, then, is: what if you liked the way I play it *better* than the way Beethoven wrote it? Would you still want me to play it Beethoven's way instead?
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin Yes, because I would want to be exposed to the way of genius, as opposed to limiting myself by my own reaction. Chances are very likely, I'd be improved by the experience.
BTW, why stop at altering Beethoven's dynamic indications? Why not change the notes, too?
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I meant: if you heard it both ways, and decided you liked the non-Beethoven way better. (People usually prefer music to be played the way they've heard it in the past; Pachelbel's Canon is typically played much slower than Pachelbel intended; manys viewer criticized my video with a performance at something closer to P's tempo as "too fast." So, it's unlikely that you'll ever be able to appreciate my version.) And yes, like Beethoven did, I often improvise when I play his music.
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin I understood you. My answer stands.
If you improvise when you play Beethoven, it shouldn't be called, say, "Beethven's Bagatelle Op. 35/5", but "smalin's Improvisation on Beethven's Bagatelle Op. 35/5" or some such. Analogous to the Godowsky Studies on the Chopin Etudes.
As for tending to like what you're used to, that's true. But if you're open-minded, you re-think when presented with new information. Example: I've known the Schumann Fantasy since I was a kid. (More)
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@smalin Almost everyone (Horowitz, Pollini, Rubinstein, Richter) takes a diminuendo 5 bars before the end of the 3rd mvt. Schumann didn't write it and Clara says nothing about this in her edition. I always played the dim. because that's what I heard great pianists doing. A friend, who is a good musician, disagreed, thought it should be played as written. I tried it and hated it. But I kept trying it and the more I did, the more sense it made. I'm now convinced the dim. is lily-gilding (more)
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@smalin and destroys the subito P in the next-to-last bar. My point is that these people were all a lot smarter than you or I and they knew what they were doing.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Beethoven was a greater composer than I (have you played my Fantasy in F?), but that doesn't mean I should take his word as final --- any more than performers who play my music should follow the markings blindly. When Beethoven reworked his music, he changed lots of things; when I revisit pieces I wrote thirty years ago, I often disagree with my markings. (It's not like I ignored Beethoven's marking; I played it as written for years; but then found something I liked better.)
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin "have you played my Fantasy in F?" No, but I will. I'll ignore everything you wrote -- notes, dynamic marks, phrasing marks, etc. -- and I'll play what ever I want. It'll be crap, but I'll put it up on youtube as your Fantasy in F :-)
Sure, Beethoven reworked his pieces. But the first versions he did were better than anything you or I could do in a lifetime of trying. Of COURSE you should follow his markings blindly. He knew better than you, MUCH better. You're good, but not that good.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Once you've learned to play the Fantasy the way I wrote it, you can play it however you like --- with my blessing.
smalin 1 year ago
@donaldcallen
@donaldcallen
So wait... A composer who spent 6 month writing a piece has a better insight than a perfomer who has performed the piece all his life ? hmmmmm I can understand your point of view but I do think that we can take liberties with pieces... or else we would be robots... and a computer then would be the best pianiste ever...
LLPorduction 1 year ago
@LLPorduction Yes, a composer who is one of the greatest geniuses the human race has produced has a better insight than a performer who is not a genius and not even well-known among today's pianists. If this performer were Pollini or Brendel, I'd say the same thing (though neither of them would take the liberty he did); this performer is not in a class with either.
Interpretation is one thing. Doing the opposite of what a genius like Beethoven wrote is quite another. You miss that distinction.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Have you posted a video of your performance of my Fantasy in F?
smalin 1 year ago
@smalin No. I decided that it would be a better use of my time to instead play music by Beethoven, as he wrote it.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I can't really agree with this. There are many current examples of popular songs that only became popular after a cover was done that improved it. I don't see how the age of music would change this. Besides, the whole point of doing variations is to experiment with a theme. Most great pianists are famous not becuase of playing exactly what was written, but for playing the music with their own voice.
Defenstrator 1 year ago
@Defenstrator Are you serious? You are comparing what's done with current popular songs to Beethoven? If you don't understand the difference, then we have nothing to discuss. Beethoven's Bagatelles aren't "variations" nor were they intended as such. And your statement about "most great pianists" is not correct. Yes, there are some who get away with that (e.g., Horowitz), but there are many, if not more, who play what is in the score and add their own artistry to it, without violating the (more)
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Defenstrator the explicit intentions of a great genius. Examples are Perahia, Pollini, Brendel.
I am not talking, by the way, about "playing exactly what is written". Musical notation isn't rich enough to allow a composer to specify every little nuance (s)he had in mind. (You can't play Bach exactly as written -- there isn't much there besides the notes.) But you CAN do what is explicitly written, and then add what is not written -- rubato, a little time, changes in color, etc.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Beethoven is dead. Dead people have no rights. We don't have to respect his wishes. His music belongs to us now, and we may do with it what we like.
You can ask whether the interpretation is in good taste, or whether it's artistically consistent, meaningful, entertaining, thought-provoking, emotionally stirring (any one of these criteria is sufficient to make a good interpretation). Markings of dynamics, agocic and articulation are just means to an end.
Timrath 1 year ago
@Timrath Wow. You and your cohorts, like the charming Chefodeath, completely miss the point. It has nothing to do with whether Beethoven is alive or dead or whether he has "rights". It has to do with the fact that Beethoven is one of the greatest, rarest geniuses the human race has produced, in a league with Bach, Newton, Einstein, Shakespeare and a few others. When confronted with the writings of such a genius, it is amazingly foolish to think you know better, to do the opposite.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen It is you who are missing the point, by a wide margin. Beethoven's greatness is not in dispute, neither by me, nor by Chefodeath, or by smalin. It is also of little relevance. Even if he were infallible, almighty and omniscient, (which he certainly wasn't - he, too, had his share of flaws, like every musician who ever lived) we still would have every right in the world to adapt, interpret, transcribe, parody, arrange, and yes, even make fun of his works, if we wish to.
Timrath 1 year ago
It has has nothing at all to do with "knowing better". Nobody here claimed to know better. It's about wanting to do something different. Shed a new light on the piece, perhaps rejuvenate it after centuries of repetitive reiterations, adapt it to today's standard of taste. Do you seriously think that even Beethoven himself would say that what he wrote is the only possible legitimate, ultimative way to play his piece? How do you know that he wouldn't approve of what smalin did?
Timrath 1 year ago
You seem to be unaware that, firstly, musicians in his time, just as they do now, liked to deviate from the score in often substantial ways. I have never read in any of his letters any complaint about that. He often complained about sloppy or flashy playing, but never about performers taking liberties. On the contrary, many, many great composers are known to have lauded performers for interpreting their works in ways that made them come out even better.
Timrath 1 year ago
@Timrath Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean you know what he thought. And you seem unaware that Beethoven slaved over his works, writing and re-writing -- look at the notebooks. These works were very carefully considered, after much trial and error. I am not opposed to interpretation -- there's much that needs to be expressed in playing a work that can't be written. But when a Beethoven writes sf and the pianist instead backs away from the note and says I have a better idea??
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen What's wrong with having a better idea? You quote Newton - a genious, no doubt. But much of what he said, we know today to be wrong. If everyone were to think like you, we would still vainly try to use newtonian physics to get our satellites into space, because no one would have dared to propose the theory of relativity. And no one would dare to standardise the English language, because, who are we to correct Shakespeare's erratic spelling?
Timrath 1 year ago
@Timrath Newton wasn't wrong; his laws are an approximation that work just fine so long as you stay away from the sub-atomic and the speed of light. Just as a score is an approximation of what we ultimately hear. Again, that's why Brendel, Perahia and Pollini sound different in Beethoven, despite all being very respectful of the score.
I would add that you don't understand how I think well enough to make your own extrapolations of my thinking with any hope of their being correct.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Timrath You are right that composers have been shown a better way by performers (e.g., Rachmaninoff accepting Horowitz' cuts and re-writing in the 2nd Sonata). But Rachmaninoff was alive to approve (or not) and Horowitz was a genius in his own right. This situation is different. Beethoven is dead, probably the only thing about which we agree. And smalin is not Horowitz.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Since Beethoven is dead, we can never know either way. He might approve, he might disapprove; but he certainly can't complain any more. So, what's to stop us from trying out different approaches?
The ultimate criterion, however, is not whether Beethoven would like it, but whether we, the audience, like it. The audience always had, and always will have the last word. You didn't like it, and that's fine by me; I did like it, and this also has to be be fine by you.
Timrath 1 year ago
@Timrath I agree with your last paragraph; that was never the issue, at least my issue. I am talking about one thing and you are talking about another. I am talking about the wisdom of ordinary folks, not Horowitzes, thinking they have a better idea than a genius. Simple. Do they have the right to think this? Of course. Is it smart? I don't think so.
I'd also suggest listening to a great pianist in this Bagatelle, one who reveres what's in the score, before you decide which way you prefer it.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Timrath This is not about rights, speaking of point-missing. It's about art and how best to realize it. Of COURSE you all have the RIGHT to play it any way you choose. What I'm questioning is not your right, but smalin's (and, indirectly, your) judgment by doing the exact opposite of what was written by a genius of the magnitude of a Beethoven. Does Pollini do such things? Brendel? Schnabel? Perahia? Did Toscanini? Would you change the words of Shakespeare in the interest of "rejuvenation"?
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Yes, I would, if it would fit the occasion. And not only would I, but it has already been done many times.
But if we shouldn't change existing works, does that mean that you are also against arrangements, orchestrations, transcriptions?
What has Beethoven's genius have to do with anything? It is totally unacceptable to me that every single work of a genius should be beyond re-examination, adaptation or even improvement (NB that smalin never claimed to have "improved" it).
Timrath 1 year ago
@Timrath
If you choose to play, say, Op. 111 and take liberties with the score (and we have pretty good evidence, lots of scholarship, concerning what Beethoven intended), play softly where Beethoven asks for forte, or alter his rhythms (smalin did both in the Bagatelle), then feel free, and I will feel free to completely ignore your performance.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Defenstrator That is why Brendel and Pollini sound different in Beethoven, and both sound different from Schnabel or Richard Goode. All are great artists and their interpretations are valid. But to do what the person who posted this video did (and it's more than just the sforzando; there are distortions of the rhythm toward the end) is putting himself above Beethoven, which the great artists I mentioned earlier would never dream of having the arrogance to do.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen I'm also assuming that you disagree wholeheartedly with the renditions of Glenn Gould, for he too often "ignored" the markings of the composer. And on the subject of Beethoven surely you must notice how almost every pianist plays moonlight sonata wrong? Perhaps if you spent less time holding an air of austerity and learnt to accept differences in interpretation you'd enjoy your music more.
Wishing you all the best.
Milligan1932 1 year ago
@Milligan1932 You are right about my opinion of Gould. I love his Bach, where he had virtually free rein, but his Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms are not worth even discussing, in my opinion (and I think you'll find that that's the opinion of most music critics).
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donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Milligan1932 Your little lecture completely misses my point, which I am going to re-state for the last time. Great performing artists -- Toscanini, Schnabel, Brendel, Schiff -- begin with the score and play what is written. That leaves an enormous amount of room for interpretation -- taking time, quality of sound, how loud is p or f, rubato, etc. But when someone like Beethoven writes forte, they play what they think is forte, not piano. To do otherwise is not interpretation, it's re-writing.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen Having read your comments I think I'll have to concede. You made some fair points. I still adore Gould's Beethoven (his Mozart is redoubtably awful). You say you love his Bach, but the sarabande from the first French suite? Along with others, he does not follow the instruction. I appreciate your opinion, but it is so different from mine I don't think they can be reconciled.
Seriously though, the variations in C minor? Gould is brilliant with them.
All the best.
Milligan1932 1 year ago
@Milligan1932 And I will return the favor and concede some points to you. With Gould, I was painting with a broad brush, because of the youtube message-size constraints. I don't agree about the Beethoven, but I think you are right about the Sarabande from the 1st French Suite. I also find him unconvincing in the great 5-voice C#-minor Fugue from Book 1 (I heard Schiff play it in Paris and the audience, myself included, was so stunned we didn't move for quite awhile; clapping didn't seem right).
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@Milligan1932 I should add that the Beethoven I refer to is just the sonatas he recorded, and the Emperor he did with Stokowski. I don't know the recording of the Variations in C-minor, but I will try to find it. He and my teacher, Martin Canin, were friends, and so I've heard a lot of wonderful Gould stories over the years. He was a remarkable person and an amazing artist in the right music.
donaldcallen 1 year ago
@donaldcallen This is why I like the music by Bach. No dynamics, no tempo marking, so you don't have dickhead purists coming in and telling how the piece is supposed to be played.
Chefodeath 1 year ago
The theme that starts at 1:25 actually is a pretty nice melody for a musical joke. The thing that ruins it though is the awful harmony.
PSaunMusic 1 year ago
What is the significance of the colors in this piece?
darkirishcurls 1 year ago
@darkirishcurls Each kind of figuration (melodic shape) has its own color.
smalin 1 year ago
Very playful piece!
Zappyguy111 1 year ago
:D the bit at 1:00 looks like a fish . . . Did anyone else notice that O.o
dylbann91 1 year ago
Excellent! Most Awesome...
Raiderblack 1 year ago
..... instead of trying to interpret it. Excellent executed..
dbfi01 1 year ago
Thank you.
smalin 1 year ago
after having listened to noumerous versions, i must say, this is the best intepretation ive ever heard... Other artists, even well renowned (noone mentioned, noone forgotten). havent got the same feeeling as you, and treat this little masterpiece as its something to be played as fast as possible...
dbfi01 1 year ago
i heard this a really long time ago, i love theeses little pieces.
Rylosalex 1 year ago
At 2:24 the Ball becomes stuck!
xXNicholasSeanHCXx 1 year ago
This Bagatelle mimics a Pinball game! (Which was called Bagatelle back then)
xXNicholasSeanHCXx 1 year ago
You should make platform games with these. That would be awesome.
MorroccoSurrogate 1 year ago
@MorroccoSurrogate ...as spaceshooter unpossible to win~ xDD
abaex 1 year ago
love this piece, and i noticed that 1:26 to 1:45 sounds sooo familiar to me, but i dont know why.
DarkPhoenixBlood 2 years ago
Maybe it just rings a bell. By siblings all try to make their own music and it always ends up sounding like Chopin or Tchaikovsky. It must ring a bell or something.
Char1esP 2 years ago
moonlight sonata?
dfp2101 1 year ago
i dont think its from the moonlight sonata, i think its one of those general pieces of classical music thats used like in commercials so alot of people know it but dont know where it comes from.
DarkPhoenixBlood 1 year ago
sounds to me as if beethoven is making fun of some bad composers of his time, like mozart did in his musical joke =)
Abyssalon 2 years ago
which musical joke? just curious
123pelerin 2 years ago
google mozart musical joke
smalin 2 years ago
@smalin is it possible if you can do revolutionary etude by chopin? i think it would look really cool
bazonce911 1 year ago
@bazonce911 Please see the FAQ.
smalin 1 year ago
this cool and great
musicalymozart1 2 years ago
WOWW!! That's impossible to play!!!!
Trombopablo 2 years ago
oh that's gnarly.
Jhoffisdead 2 years ago 2
A very interesting piece got even more interesting with your visual creation!
pianogirl98 2 years ago 3
at 2:42, in bethov's piece, it shuld really be ff, but hear it's played mezzo, like the rest, and personally, i find that the 3rd part, is not played like it shuld be, this is from Ludvig van Bethoven, not from mandelshon, we do not see the dramaticall part of it, do we?
Adenafire 2 years ago
haha Doesn't this just bring a smile to your face everytime you listen to it ?? It does for me :)
Sakuracloud804 2 years ago 2
haha i this songs funny im gonna play it for my school recital now
Lyss27PIVI 2 years ago
This makes me wish I hadn't dropped piano so soon. It'd be a fun one to play!
poynterch 2 years ago
I hope it didn't land on your foot ... those things are HEAVY!
smalin 2 years ago
perhaps metaphorically...
poynterch 2 years ago
lol, good point
sopka1985 2 years ago
Punny
europegirlh2o 2 years ago
are u 100?
sopka1985 2 years ago
..and one has to realize that by Beethoven wrote this piece from the Op.33 collection, he was almost deaf..
DSM1G90 2 years ago 2
The Bagatelles by Beethoven- being of the Opuses, 33, 119 and 126 - are very good piano pieces since the bagatelle is a light and mellow short piece written for the piano.
DSM1G90 2 years ago 2
Wowzaa! This piece is insane! :-)
steamer442 2 years ago 3
I was really looking forward to the part past 2:27 , because I read the comments first. And even when I was waiting for something to happen, it still caught em off guard. The repeating is just what makes this piece so funny. I forgot about the comments and thought I knew what was coming.
It turned a very big grin on my face:)!
dunkmaster12 2 years ago 2
A very amusing peace. Small and amusing... doesn't really make me LAUGH... but it gets a little smile on face...
and the minor part is just great... :))
neverwinterpoyela 2 years ago 2
ah yes...lapsus calami...
piece... not peace XD
neverwinterpoyela 2 years ago
i find this piece quite boring.....
it sounds like a 30sec piece on a broken disc.... just repeating itself over and over again....
jingeshan24 2 years ago
Could we entertain the notion of a light-hearted piece?
babyhomer 2 years ago
Sure, and this is certainly light-hearted in the A section (the B section is more ominous). But it's also funny; what happens between 2:27 and 2:45 is the punchline. If it doesn't make you laugh (or at least feel like laughing, or understand why somebody might laugh), you're not getting it.
smalin 2 years ago
I guess that I'm not getting that last part. But I really like the piece outside of that.
babyhomer 2 years ago
It's because he does things like that the man is crazy. I had to laugh, this piece is obviously not serious.
RectumPilum 2 years ago
Am /i insulting a great genius if I say I think this is a very funny piece
zimonslot 2 years ago
Are you kidding? Just the opposite! If Beethoven were playing the piece on the piano, and nobody laughed at what happens between 2:27 and 2:45, he'd be disappointed, and think that his audience was a bunch of insensitive dolts.
smalin 2 years ago
Well then, it seems that I'm one of the few people that doesn't find this piece "funny". I really like it musically, but I don't really find it "funny".
PrismLightwave 2 years ago
Too bad. I'm sorry to hear that.
Maybe someday you'll get it.
smalin 2 years ago
I would enjoy hearing the mighty flight of the bumblebee
Alex618mir 2 years ago
Congratulations!
artyparis 2 years ago
I like that it gives people a visual of what you are actually playing, and the work in doing it.
lyro92 2 years ago
do you think you can do flight of the bumblebee
h5liu 2 years ago 2
It's on my DVD.
smalin 2 years ago
It is good to know that Beethoven could be playful.
humanist7117 2 years ago
Its really neat getting a digital-visual perspective on piano music!
teslaphysics 2 years ago
Haha - fantastic! Gotta love Beethoven...what a joker he was! Great piece and cool animation. :-)
Delphi333 2 years ago 4
High score: 19,287,620,930 -- LVB
Beethoven had too much time on his hands to get that score... =/
Hougmaku 2 years ago 2
honestly i start listening with the intention of not actually listening to the whole song and then i cant stop
jakeplumber 2 years ago 5
sounds like the hysterical type of madness
jakeplumber 2 years ago
the part starting at 1:25 sounds ALOT like I will survive xD
Thiren111 2 years ago 4
True story! That's what happens when you go around the circle of fifths (more or less).
jlandiseigsti 2 years ago
The beginning sounds like chopins first etude :)
TheoneParky 2 years ago
I love the ending. :)
KlavierNocturne 2 years ago
im a rookie piano player, i was looking for some chalenge, just bought a book with some song, cheking internet and all
OMG this what im attending to ?!
gimme a year or 2 <.<
oh and btw try doing an animation of a Luca Turilli MasterPiece
thatd be awsome
nicbaldwin 2 years ago
This is really weird. If you carefully watch the animations until the end, the screen gets very DISTORTED, almost like an OPTICAL ILLUSION. Great piece!
louieaw123 2 years ago 2
the same thing happens when i play guitar hero then look up at the walls..... it's like everything is melting
applesrfun 2 years ago
hey the brown section starting in 1:50 actually sounds like the windows 3D pinball sound when the ball falls to the pit :DDD
energycore345 2 years ago
HAHA yes it does.
Dodo251 2 years ago
the section from 0:08 to 0:10 (which repeats many times) actually looks like a tunnel and the ball bouncing over it :D
energycore345 2 years ago
pinball and beethoven rock!!
energycore345 2 years ago 2
amazing.. like listen to a story
prisoner56 2 years ago
This video reminds me of a musically gifted toddler fooling around on the piano. It's got beautiful spots, and really random spots.
joys4peace 2 years ago 3
moonlight sonata was beethovens best that was his shittest
pglssr10 2 years ago
You just have to laugh!
pooka543 2 years ago 6
isnt there the melody of "i will survive" included?
bye the way ... the video looks like super mario levels XD
orleomarty 2 years ago 2
leave it to beethoven to make a piece that is both musically and visually pleasing.
great job
a12bentm 2 years ago 5
niceeee!!I think this is the Volodos conception of music :))))
ipvac1 2 years ago
makes me want to dance
pianoman1812 2 years ago 3
Go for it!
smalin 2 years ago
Absolutely wonderful. For some reason it makes me want to laugh.?
Programmer780 2 years ago 5
Haha, that's a keeper.
Brassman388 2 years ago
What do the colors of the lines mean? In most of your videos, there's a separate color for each pitch. What does it mean here?
PrismLightwave 2 years ago 3
e poi l'elettronica ei led non servono a nulla ... buglie.
bello. mi piace.
7papaverirossi 2 years ago
this is so great and special! i love it! wonderfull! really amazing! i like it!
lilushlb 2 years ago
It looks organic
PrivateSlacker 2 years ago
HORRIBLE LO QUE HACES
Andresppiiaannoo 2 years ago
I like peaceful, serious music, does anybody have any suggestions? PLEASE HELP!
Jasperismylove 2 years ago
Yeah, you should check out Trois etudes de concert "Un sospiro" by Liszt.
tekashi 2 years ago
the definitivly most peaceful music is the
slow movement of Beethovens 9th symhpony. If you look something for the piano then listen to the 3rd movement of Beethovens sonata op. 106 or 2nd mov. from op. 109
gprengel 2 years ago
I can play this !! took my about a year to memorize and everything.....very hard ! but i was really pleased wiv myself when i finished it !
CheekyChickLuvver 2 years ago 6
Sounds like ol' Beet was in a playful mood when he made this.
TaiGekTou 2 years ago
Haha "Beet"
Kurtyoungblood 2 years ago
Beethoven was so (soooooooo) good that his pieces even LOOK good!!!
cpando 2 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
your tripping. beethoven is amazingly overrated. he sucks balls
BergerKing064 2 years ago