I've totally lost any respect for Ron Paul now.. his arguments are 'ad infinitum'.. take an argument and run it to extremes.. like children do..in socialised health systems costs do NOT rise above yours because..1) doctors do NOT spend all their time in paperwork.. they don't have paperwork, as there's no bills to pay... 2) There is no insurance company creaming off profits in the middle (U.S. insurance companies spend more on lobbying and advertising than on cancer treatment).
@lozman67 Yeah it's ironic that those countries with UHC spend less on health care per person and typically have longer average life expectancies, also a lower infant mortality rate. Paul is an ideological purist, the ideology must always triumph, regardless of what the reality is.
the government we have now thinks that healthcare is "a good" and not a right. that's the problem. we have so many people in this country suffering from disease and injury while almost the entire world has embraced universal healthcare. we can not help that we become sick ...so why should we be made to believe that we must earn the right to receive help? ron paul is just going to drive this country into the ground further.
@bittysnack Most health care costs is do to something people could avoid if THEY took care of themselves. Healthcare is a "product." Right now you can go to any hospital and get FREE care if it is an emergency. Illegals and many other people, do that all the time. So the argument about taking care of people that need it is false and a scare tactic people use for lack of actually understanding what they're talking about. Ron Paul will fix the mess we're in.
@rbh1138 so your saying that people should be able to prevent getting cancer or being hit by a drunk driver in the first place? mhm yeah ...in crazy world that TOTALLY makes sense. and i assure you that emergency care is NOT free. i had to be rushed to the hospital for a heart attack and let's just say the bill sent to me a few weeks later was not pretty. I don't know who's ass your pulling these statements out of, but you need to do some ACTUAL research on our system
@rbh1138 You don't get free care in the emergency room. You get a bill. And all of those unpaid ER bills are made up for via rising medical cost passed on to those who can pay or have insurance. So you are already paying for the care of those who have only the ER to resort to.
USA has the capacity to supply ALL of its citizens with premium healthcare but why does it not? these companies dont give two shits about your health all they want is your money and hopefully you will never need their service. In Europe and Canada it works the other way around. Doctors do not deal with bills, doctors don't fight insurance companies. Everything is paid for by the people and FOR the people so they are free to practice what they want and how they want. Go to london and see it.
@berbatovinho77 universal healthcare has never worked in any system, people have only put up with it.
in a free market, where competition is high and taxes are low, there is more money in the pockets of the people to afford services and more money for corporations to drop prices to compete with.
i agree our healthcare needs reform, but it needs to start with our government, we need to get rid of the lobbyists and the politicians who serve themselves instead of the people who voted for them.
For all the people that are opposed to UHC. Why is it that USA is the ONLY western country WITHOUT a universal healthcare system or a public option? Greed has infiltrated this country so much and it has brainwashed these "free market" people so much that they can't even see their own fellow humans suffering. "Free market" did not make USA as strong it is right now. SLAVERY, CHEAP LABOR, UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES, AND EXPLOITATION OF HUMANS made USA the USA of today.
slavery only ever stagnated the economy of any civilization
unfair business practices are due in part to corporate lobbyists getting away with buying politicians, you get rid of them and capitalism thrives.
after the civil war, during a time when slavery was abolished and taxes were low, and we were without socialized programs, the united states encountered an economic boom like none other.
It's such a relief to have another commenter that is educated and doesn't argue with brash assumptions backed by nothing. Thanks for joining the fight!
The idea that the citizens of United Kingdom wants to get rid of their UHC system is absolutely ridiculous and it is the biggest propaganda run by American insurance companies. Go visit london and go to the hospital and ask if ANYONE would want "insurance", copays, bills, and lack of coverage for 15% of the population. people in London live in great economic conditions and they are not inhumane to suffering people in their country. Americans are pathetic human beings
healthcare is a FUCKING right...not a good... police do not serve you because you are richer, firefighters dont put out fires because you have more assets... its a public service... jsut like healthcare should be. now if you want breast implants then you can pay THAT yourself.. but essentials are needed by everyone
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
@kevinkards1 you realize that by accepting that, you support a society in which someone can rightly, correctly, and justly demand the things in that list while at the same time refusing the work or produce anything, or contribute to society in any way whatsoever. because human rights are owed to us just because we're human, we shouldn't have to work for them. the society you propose is unsustainable. none of the things in that list are rights. speech, assembly, liberty, etc are rights. not those
maybe if you greedy bastards down at the insurance companies would start looking into research done in the 1900's by Dr. Ruth Drown maybe we could all get free health care but i guess the world doesn't want anyone to know about her or what she did
Everyone I know that is in those countries with UHC would never get rid of it. To even suggest it in most of those countries in political suicide, if not actual suicide.
People born into the world unable to work because of a challenge will simply be left to die with his way of things.
He fears the corrupt politicians which not every country is pested with like the US. His logic is based on the state the US is in right now and thus flawed. You can very well have a taxed payed health-care system.
We already have freemarket healthcare and it does not work unless you have enough money------ duhhhh.
My family is told which dr, hospital, and pharmacies we have to use. Long waits for much needed referrals. so I am confused on what the hell Paul, teabaggers, and some commenter's here are talking about.
Health care has been a commodity for years now, and since it became about money it began failing, now totally failed. I am talking from being a medical professional and patient.
Freemarket healthcare is the way to fix the system and to get costs to go down. Less regulation and more competition. I don't want Obama telling me when and where I can see a doctor. I have the right to a choice and Obamacare is going to take away my right to choose.
@HConstantine ??? What are you even talking about? The right to choice is one of the unalienable rights on which our nation is founded. The point is that we need to increase the ability to choose, not restrict it. As you point out, it is already restricted but not because of the insurance company, rather because there is already too much government involvement and restriction. Obamacare does not fix the problem. It exacerbates it.
listening to Ron Paul's comment from the past probably Ron Paul will be the happiest man if slavery were to be reintroduced in the US.
This is the guy who regularly slams Abe Lincoln for ending slavery and had several White Supremacists running his 2008 presidential campaign such as Randy Grey, Don Black, David Duke etc.
The subject has not been thoroughly examined and people have not been fully informed. I agree in socialized medicine, but only if the gobernment itself manages it, like it does with other agencies, in order to drive the costs of health care and general operation down. That is how it is done in other countries.
Gibig the money to insurance companies is the most expensive alternative and does not address the main issues - high cost of medical services/related goods and lack of coverage to all USA
How can someone have life liberty and the persuit of happiness without health and food. This idea that other countries are suffering with poor health care because of government intervention is pure BS. Look at the facts and not the propaganda. Something I'm use to Ron Paul usually doing. I don't know why he has to include this BS in his health care argument. I'm sure he has good ideas otherwise.
The subject has not been thoroughly examined and people have not been fully informed. I agree in socialized medicine, but only if the gobernment itself manages it, like it does with other agencies, in order to drive the costs of health care and general operation down. That is how it is done in other countries.
Gibig the money to insurance companies is the most expensive alternative and does not address the main issues - high cost of medical services/related goods and lack of coverage to all USA
the idea that we need to be legislated by natural law is meaningless, we are humans we look to each other so nobody will be left in need, that is why we are separeted from the animals,
Obama's healtcare program will expand the privet HMO & Insurance industry which is going broke because of bad investments in the Stock Market. We will be forced to buy and carry insurance if we want medical treatment. A medical panel will determine who will get medical treatment based of cost effectiveness. Obama's program is just another Wall Street bailout paid for by us. Obama is a Wall Street prostitute that will give head to get ahead. Google Video: OTC PM Report September 10, 2009
PrincessChristy: The Constitution precludes regulating the free expression of religion. It would have to be a 2/3 majority of each house of congress and 2/3 of the state legislatures to change that. Not at all likely. Read your Constitution.
PrincessChristy: Taking of another life is NOT taking away the right of another to life. Stretching the definition a bit much there. How many die because they don't have healthcare? Please give the source for the statistic you will be giving. The biggest taking of life by doctors is murder of unborn children.
Each state can pass whatever law they jolly well please. Read your Constitution. A law based upon a common value hardly makes it "religious".
hi hi.just wanted to add for you to reread the constitution yourself and see list how many we currently are not following.. that passed down from bush administration down to obama's.mainly the patriot act... because our country was just fine with protection.for 9/11 happened once.. instead of every day or every other day.. before the event.. besides the fact 9/11 was intentional for they was warn by israel and took no action (which by the way israel sent a camera crew to record it)jersey journal
PrincessChristy: That averages 20,000. Damn, that sure seems a whole lot easier to believe than the bullshit about 50 million needing help. And a whole lot easier to pay for. Why don't you suggest that number to Nazi Pelosi?
To all the [health care et al] industry whoring politicians who are lying, treacherous and, of course, in cahoots with the industry titans:
If people have not figured it out yet, I'm happy to spell it out here: [Profit-driven] Health Care "insurance," including the pharmaceutical companies, is one of the biggest and most profitable SCAMS in history...
PrincessCharlene: I don't need to argue. This republic can pass any law the majority wants to and if the courts uphold it it is enforceable. Who said anything about a religious law?
Just how many people die because of lack of money? Please give the reference for whatever statistic you use.
A majority of people can decide murder is wrong. A majority can also decide promotion of homosexuality is wrong. This is not establishing a religion in either case.
Hey Ron, maybe you might want to take a trip a few miles North to one of the most developed and democratic countries on the face of the Earth... or maybe you're afraid of the socialist boogeyman pulling the plug on your old ass because funds could be better allocated? Oh please, you republican fearmongers have turned your nation into a nation of fat ignorant cowboys who are afraid of their own shadow. Shame on you for trying to stop legislation taking America out of the stone age...
The fallacy in the debate between a privatized system and a socialized system, in regards to quality of care, is that a privatized system increases quality of treatment. Sure, it ensures excellent treatment for the privileged who can afford it, but it costs the poor and uninsurable their lives. Health care is a MORAL issue and if you stand firmly behind a privatized system, then you must be accountable for the attrition of the poor.
Under a true free market system, the insurance companies wouldn't be regulated nearly as much as they are now, which is the reason why insurance costs are so high. Under capitalism, costs go down while quality goes up. Plus, if you want to be "Moral" about it, the determining factor to who gets coverage would be how much money you have, which is an indicator of how productive you've been. Stealing from people to provide health insurance to others is about as immoral as you can get.
First of all there are such things like "true free market". For "true free market" to exist any form of govt have to cease to exist. If there is any existence of any form of govt, there will be interference directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally.
Under you 'free market' there will no such thing as Interstate Highways or railway systems across the nation since there will be no such as public lands.
Since you described providing health insurance to every citizen as immoral since tax is equivalent of stealing I guess you should immediately stop using Interstate Highway system as well since it was built and is maintained by "stolen" money from someone else.
I'll be more than happy to see you get exempt you from all taxes in return for banning you using all public infrastructures like Interstate Highway, electric grid, public water supply etc.
Not correct. The only proper function of government is the police to catch criminals, an army to protect against invaders, and a court system to enforce contracts and protect against fraud. You can have a limited government and a free market; get your facts straight.
About the interstates/highways, etc., there are worse things to do with tax dollars than infrastructure, but have you considered privatizing roads?
So basically what you want is a socialist system to protect your "free market" ? Police, courts and army are inherently socialist in nature, arent they ?
How about creating police, courts and military out of 'voluntary donation' rather than force people to pay who do not want to use those services. Should not people have right to opt-out if dont want to use them. I hardly use those services why should I pay for your use ?
O.K. But there is a HUGE difference between basing health care, and an entire socioeconomic system based on socialism, and a police, military,and court system.
The police, army, and courts are basic functions of a government. You pay taxes to support these things depending on what country you live in. It's written in the constitution.
Under 'true free market' there will be no such thing as trademark, patent, copyright protection by the govt. Why should everyone else be forced to pay for the protection of your private business property like trademark, patent, copyright etc ?
Just do it with your own money and dont steal my money through govt to protect your private property.
The costs are high because health insurance is a virtual monopoly. If it were deregulated it would cost much more. Heath care is rationed now. Its a choice between rationing by wealth, or rationing by urgency of medical need. What about the corporate bureaucrats whose job it now is to deny you the health care you paid for with your insurance premiums?
Deregulation would tear down barriers restricting firms from offering insurance and and medical care. The surplus of companies would lead to competitively lower prices while they compete to offer the best care. You're second sentence there is wrong. Think about it from an economists' point of view. YOur ignoring key factors.
@SomeUsefulIdiot wow are you like satan... "stealing" lets say you are fresh out of college and struggling with payments so you put off health insurance... you get in a car accident on your way to work... you are paralyzed and need expensive nerve fusion treatments... what should happen to that person? your fucking free market would let him die... but as a human being i wouldnt mind sparing a few hundred bucks or thousand bucks to help people like him..your such a immoral idiot.
Well he'd certainly have to pay for treatment in some way. What is more likely to happen in a truly free society (which we don't have) is that a charity hospital would take care of him. They'd be supported by those who are charitable in society. And trust me, there would be a lot more charity if the government stopped plundering the wealth from the populace.
I personally wouldn't mind to spare a few hundred bucks either, but I don't believe i should be FORCED to subsidize him
@SomeUsefulIdiot "charitable society" dont make me laugh... do you also believe in "trickle down effect". the ignorance and inhumane nature of american society stuns me. did you guys forget that these are your fellow countrymen, brothers, and sisters. if you came to great britain i would not mind for you to get FREE treatment in our system if there is ANYTHING wrong with you. I would not want you to go looking for charities in desperate times. You people make me sick.
I don't believe simply because I live in a country with other people that I have an obligation to provide for their "needs". The cell phone industry is barely regulated compared to health care, and the costs come down while quality goes up. The same would happen for health care if government got out of the picture entirely. You're type of "reasoning" is repeating all the collectivist sophistries you hear on TV. Try reading a book buddy
@SomeUsefulIdiot ... collectivist sophistries :D wow... how can you compare cellphones to someones surgery? a cell phones is not a matter of life or death. Healthcare is not a need its a basic human right. what of this do you not understand? the same would not happen to healthcare because we saw what the healthcare companies did to regular people that they were supposed to cover. I have read many books, many articles, on the possibilities of USA being able to afford one of the best UHCs
No, it's not a right. You don't have a "right" to the services of anyone else. The issue of who is doing the providing is purposely evaded by today's "intellectuals". And I'm convinced from the short exchange I've had with you that you'll never understand what true laissez-faire is. For the last time, healthcare companies have not been truly free from government interference, which is what creates distortions in the market for health care.
@SomeUsefulIdiot but your sir still believe a completely free market can exist. you are just as delusional as ron paul, that is why he gets only 5% of votes, he is too idealistic. may be in his head it might work but in the real world there is nothing to stop companies with better funds monopolizing the healthcare business and decide if you are going to live or die. why not take out the middle man and pay for your coverage through the government.
@berbatovinho77 if you believe that your government is incompetent enough to not be able to protect its people from the wrong doings of others, then why trust them with deciding how your going to live your life?
Monopolies can only exist with government aid in the form of licensing, patents, subsidies, and regulations that prevent new business because of too high of starting costs. Try to argue with your mind and not emotion, you sound scared and irrational
To add, socialized heathcare, like any other type of socialization is impractical, immoral, and just plain bad economics. Maybe you should do some research on history and economics before you start comparing me to satan simply because I want to live in a society where I'm free to keep the fruits of my labor.
Now, do you have an intelligent response, or will you resort to name calling?
@SomeUsefulIdiot i gave you a very intelligent response.what is so wrong with making a nationalized healthcare that would streamline healthcare instead of healthcare being a business transaction. it works in ALL other industrialized nations but the USA? com on my friend you know this free market healthcare bull crap is just a way for the big boys to make more money off of people suffering. 50 million people CANT receive healthcare because they know they will go broke if they see a doctor.
The current system is nowhere close to a free market. Government has been in the healthcare business a long time now. They produce monopolies by restricting sales across state lines, they subsidize otherwise non-profitable companies as well. Government breeds corruption and stagnation. So to say this is a free market shows your ignorance.
@SomeUsefulIdiot you sir have no idea what you are talking about. if there were no regulations on "healthcare" companies i can assure you that they will chase profits more than actually helping people. that is why it is immoral to put profits before someones needs for survival. A person i know went bankrupt because in 2005 his insurance company DENIED him to pay for the ambulance ride. He was 21 and in college. how can he afford a 10,000 dollar ambulance ride.
@SomeUsefulIdiot "the determining factor to who gets coverage would be how much money you have, which is an indicator of how productive you've been" So a person who happens to have been born into a fortune and then inherits that family fortune was "productive" by being born into money? Just cut to the chase and say what you believe, that a person's life is only as valuable as their checking account.
I know plenty of people who have gone to other countries for health care from the US. There are many reasons for doing this but it usually because it is too expensive here. I also once dated a Canadian women who's main reason she didn't want to live in the US was because of health care. And Iv'e heard plenty of people from other countries who have single payer or socialized medicine (which are very different things by the way) who are very happy with there health care.
InterConnectY: The expense here can be cut considerably if tort reform were enacted.
In any case, it's just plain wrong to force EVERYBODY into a government program. The same incompetent bureaucracy that has bankrupted Social Security and Medicare is hardly the entity to trust with new resposibilities.
No, calling someone else a liar is indeed simply false. Though authors and politicians want a Founding Fathers of non-Christians, alas, this is a myth as much as the man on a moon. The Founding Fathers were overwhelming Christian and believed in morals an values. I challenge any legitimate history to discount this. Also, freedom of worship and an inability to mention God in a government setting is a relatively new concept.
Proscribing a state religion is a far cry from passing a law that a majority from many religions agree upon. States gave powers to the National government, not the other way around. The states have retained the right to proscribe a particular religion. But, wisely, not have exercised it nor even thought of it for over 150 years. Now, you are free to apologize for the insanity accusation.
Lie? Pretty strong language. I assume you are prepared to quote the part of the Constitution that separates church and state. And remember, the post before you referred to the prohibition of enacting a law respecting a religion, which doesn't preclude congress from legis;ating moral issues. C'mon now, where's the quote? Cat got your tongue?
Everyone has the responsibility to actively practice preventative health for themselves. If they don't they have the right to the consequences. Nobody has a right to suck the public tit to subsidize their unhealthy lifestyle. Nobody has the right to suck the public tit to artificially extend a life about to end.
LOL, stop walking outside. Stop breathing the air you and I help pollute. Stop drinking the water. Stop sitting on your ass and watching stupid tv. Stop growing old. Stop having illnesses due to growing old. No amount of exercise or eating well can stop you from aging. The word "responsibility" has been so over used by you idiots it has no meaning anymore. Preventive care is another excuse for you to use to be an ass.
MedicatedLoonie: If you took the time to realize you are responsible for the consequences of your actions (unless you can pass the responsibility off onto a sucker) you might understand why many are resistant to this huge transfer of responsibility. Everybody gets old. When it's my time to die, I won't be sucking the public tit for a few more years of a substandard life.
LOL...ah, are you still trying to amuse me? Little ole me :) Run along old sissy man, play time is over. For a single cell organism who verbally and weakly defends The Republic you should have the understanding I have every right to end the game as I wish, as did you. But since you enjoy shoving your ignorance on others I doubt you carry the "responsibility" of thought to understand that. Not used to rejection are you...aw, so sad :) Good day Mr. 4GooMan. It was a pleasure.
Medical-Ain't: I see you've avoided producing statistics for how many people die for lack of money. So I guess I can understand you taking your leave. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. And since you are the one pushing your agenda, I suppose you mean that you're the one pushing ignorance. Hasta la bye-bye. Glad you had fun.
What does anything I said have anything to do with the framers being christian or deist (in my opinion they are both outlandish beliefs). I was simply saying the term "separation of church and state" is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution, nor is it inferred in the first amendment. Enforcement of religious laws? What are you talking about?
Separation of church and state is never mentioned in the constitution, its something progressives made up. States should have a right to honor a religion, congress should make no laws regarding religion or prohibiting religion, so it seems it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to ban a state or local government from posting the 10 commandments or putting up christmas decorations.
The private market can do wonderful things if the government stops meddling in all of the other aspects of the economy. Healthcare costs have risen because the Lords of Finance want them to. They are squeezing us so that we will relinquish our rights. You've heard those "volunteer" ads on the radio for Obama? They won't be volunteer based for long. -A libertarian
Medical care costshave risen because people don't want to be responsible for their own actions - Obesity, Venereal Disease, Dope, Alcohol and Tobacco addiction, Avoidance of Exercise. Sex Changes, Plastic Surgery, Viagara. Organ Transplants at over $100,000 a pop to get a few lousy years extra of "life".
You finally realized life is a joke, huh old man, lol. You realized there is no light at the end of the tunnel :) No god, no Jesus....just the lights going out forever. Everything you worked for, all that "responsibility" for naught....HAhahHAhahAHhAha...but conservatism will save you though right. Yet you still cling to this shame called life. Have a nice day :)
I wish we could kill each other without "consequences". Then we wouldn't have to worry about all that crap you mentioned. Idiot.
OverlyMedicatedSchmuck: You are hardly coherent and deviate quite distantly from the topic at hand. Whatever that medication is you're imbibing, you've had overly much.
LOL, ROFL, LMAO....Do you need my attention that badly? The way I see it as long as you think you're bothering me you're not shoveling shit to someone else. :)
Link please. Also he personally believes that there shouldn't be marriage licenses and that this religious ceremony should have no place in the government. Though he doesn't vote to ban gay marriage or allow it as an amendment because he thinks that making an amendment to enforce the government's definition of marriage is silly and stupid.
I don't know about all of you but I have a problem with my tax dollors being spent on abortion ( currently the most preformed operation). You can look at the efficiancy of which great britains health care is run and it heartlessness. 5000 elderly die a year due to loack of beds. people are regularly denied tretment. This bill will uethanas the mentaly and termenaly ill patiants in the name of efficiancy.
I too agree socialism is bad and leads to less liberty. Many European countries are more heavily bogged down with legislation and taxes than we are, at this point. We are getting dangerously close to Europe though. I have a French student staying with us and he is buying Chanel products here to take back to France. These products are made in France - but cheaper for him to buy here in America. Levi Jeans cost him about $130 in France - less than $40 here in the US. Just 2 small examples.
I am of the opinion that individuals should be responsible for their own lives, their own actions, their own expenses- while governments is responsible for protecting the individual rights of its citizens.
The more goods that become rights, the more socialism you get. Socialism is a very bad thing, because by its very nature, it leads to the degradation of liberty.
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Ron Paul has a job, health care and education paid by his rich family .... he doesn't goive a shit about Americans. Typical Republican and Libertarian.... they care about USA but they don't give a shit about American citizens
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Health Care and Education are civil and human rights. Only healthy and educated countries are happy and productive countries. This is the reason why capitalism died sonsumed by its own consumism, credit card debt, home foreclosure and personal bankrupcy for health care expenses.
That's a bit harsh Generalization. That's like saying all Democrats want Fascist size Governments. It's not worth debating you since you label Republicans and Libertarians don't care about Citizens.
What if I said that, because you don't think people should own guns, that you don't care about the constitution? You feel like you want to punch me because from your side, that sounds extremely stupid.
You can't think government can give us all these "needs". They only limit them even more.
What the good Dr. Paul fails to mention is that we are already paying for the uninsured through higher premiums and emergency room costs. Why would he leave that analysis out of his discussion if he were truly being intellectually honest?
itsneverthegovsfault, Why is it that most arguments against health care reform go off the deep end. " food? car? home?"
Get off the band wagon that people who don't have "things" want to reach in your pocket and take it. Please stop propagating the fallacy that poor people are lazy and want to eat off your dime. Sure there are some abuser (usury abound by the pharma and insurance co.) but mostly not.
BTW if I was hungry and unable to obtain food, would you not give me a morsel of bread?
Good to see that you too have a kind heart. But the pharma and insurance companies are gouging and are glutinous and grows fat pocketed CEO's and managers by over charging you for treatments (pills and more pills but never a cure) while you are also expected to offer a kind hand to the needy.
By the way, your surely are not one of those that err in thinking that: if a person is poor (lacking financial means) then he/she is lazy?
There will always be poor among us when we are lazy enough to think a problem is solved by a hand out. Even our disabled are of worth and can work in some way to pay. The right thing to do is teach a man to fish, not give him the right to take your own fish.
Removing guns would jeopardize the right to life. And BTW, the right to life is one of the three basic principles this nation was founded on. Remember that phrase...'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.' What part of that does not endorse an explicit right to life?
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We are an evolved compassionate civilization (not barbaric) with technological advancements who no longer lead the weak and old out into the wilderness to die. Health care is a right.
Ron Paul has finally reveled himself. Doctors make u wait 1.5 hour to see him. If your condition does not fit into the 5 ailments he's knows he will prescribes a pill and says lets wait to see if you feel better. He spends 15 minutes with me then charges $175.
54 billion dollar has been spend on cancer research and still no real cure. That is ridiculous.
The insurance companies already dictate what medical treatment you are allowed to get and you can't do anything about it.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Don't let goverment fool you into thinking you will get something for nothing. Someone will have to pay for this.
Government is so involved in health care that it's forced doctors to be paper pushers instead of health care providers. A lot of them have retired because of this. Imagine a town with one plumber and another town with ten plumbers. In which town do you think plumbing services will be cheaper? Now imagine the government steps in to control the cost of plumbing in the one plumber town. What will happen to the quality of the plumbing, assuming that the plumber doesn't retire? Same with healthcare.
If you think things half way through, Ron Paul makes sense.
If you think things all the way through, you find yourself supporting the Judeo-Christian World Order.
They will install a universal health program *when* we can afford it.
Just think of how it will free employers from providing health care...and, more importantly, how it will free us from depending on an employer for health care. We will be free to work part time if we want...or multiple part time jobs if we want.
So the government creates HMO's, and health care providers respond by charging more. Customers respond by getting more and more insurance to spread the cost risk around. Health care responds again by charging more. Now the solution, according to the Obama legislation, is to force everyone to get insurance? What do you think the health care industry will respond by doing?
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Ron Paul said this? I couldn't disagree with him more. What kind of a doctor would say that health care should only be for the wealthy few? Apparently not a very conscientious doctor. I just can't support Ron Paul anymore after hearing this. I just can't. I was disappointed to hear him say this.
Listen and think about what Ron Paul is saying here, "First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a right to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you." This is the essence of what Liberty means: To reject the use of force. Don't have a knee-jerk reaction to this (logic)...use your brain. There is a connection between the welfare/warefare state
He's a doctor! He knows what will work and what will not. I'd listen to him before Pelosi or Obama on this one! I know we need to fix it, but, going to a gov't plan IS NOT the answer.
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Food, housing, and healthcare is a not just a good, it's a need, without it we would die. Government should do it's best to provide welfare in anyway possible. Unfortunately our government has turned into a bureaucracy that's hurting the poor and middle class. I agree with Ron Paul that government should leave the free market alone, cut spending, and lower taxes but government should provide help to those that need it. In my state of California there is people who are living in tent cities.
I would learn more about inflation - and the federal reserve you have to understand that then you will understand why people are in tent cites your government wants them -- the government doesnt care about you or me
I'm terribly sorry about the way things are going in CA. I live in TX - one of the very few States that is currently running in the black - and it's not because we're rich over here by any mean! It's mainly because our legislature, by it's constitutional mandate, must balance only pass a balanced budget. Perhaps CA residents might consider placing this restriction on its own gov't. I'm not trying to pass judgement - it's a suggestion for a step in the right direction.
I feel for you Because Jersey has the same Problems that You do, I believe it won't be long before we're in your shoes. but let's be honest about what got us into this mess. an over generous welfare system, High Illegal Immigrant Population (becouse of the over generous welfare system) the loss of Jobs & high Property Taxes ( because someone's got to Pay for the over generous welfare system). another thing we have is high car Insurance because our Illegals don't carry Insurance
On a brighter note we can accept our losses & move to states that are faring better........ unless the rest of the country is forced to become like California & Jersey by adopting our failed policies
I believe in a sovereign God. God has an order to things, it is his order and we don't have much of a say in the matter. When a nation is out of God's order, like a rubberband it will snap back. California has embraced one transformational marxist policy after another and the policies are going to snap back.
Our welfare system is one of the most least effective welfare systems in the world, as a matter fact it's totally useless, it's a bureaucracy. Do you honestly think the money were taxed from goes to poor people or I'm getting a dime from your paycheck?
No, I don't believe YOU are getting one thin dime of my money. According to the Grace Report, from the 80's, revenues collected from income goes to pay the interest owed the fed for printing those fancy dollar bills out of thin air. YOUR money comes from China. or USED to come from China. Sorry. Call your congressman. If you don't have a cellphone, one may be provided by the state free of charge. They do it in my home state. Hooray stimulus!
Are you saying Chinese money is being used to pay for welfare programs in this country? And for your information I'm not receiving any welfare benefits, except for the student loan I have to pay off.
Glad to hear that you're not on the dole and I wouldn't damn you if you NEEDED it but limits should be enforced with drug screens and maybe even labor of some sort. NO FREE RIDES! A large percentage of people choose to live their entire lives like this when many, if not most, could do some sort of menial work. And yes, foreign governments fund this lavish lifestyle we all enjoy and the fed prints the rest. Don't kid yourself. Google it.
I've totally lost any respect for Ron Paul now.. his arguments are 'ad infinitum'.. take an argument and run it to extremes.. like children do..in socialised health systems costs do NOT rise above yours because..1) doctors do NOT spend all their time in paperwork.. they don't have paperwork, as there's no bills to pay... 2) There is no insurance company creaming off profits in the middle (U.S. insurance companies spend more on lobbying and advertising than on cancer treatment).
lozman67 1 month ago
@lozman67 Yeah it's ironic that those countries with UHC spend less on health care per person and typically have longer average life expectancies, also a lower infant mortality rate. Paul is an ideological purist, the ideology must always triumph, regardless of what the reality is.
njanovic1980 3 weeks ago
WOLFOWITZ DEBATE QUESTION UGH
RON NEVER SAID LEAVE HIM TO DIE, THESE WORDS WERE INTRODUCED UNNECESSARILY BY THIS PIECE OF SHIT WOLF WHO ASKED THE QUESTION IN THIS WAY
IT IS NOT EVEN DIGNIFIED TO ASK SUCH A QUESTION !!!
ONE SHOULD ASK RON PAUL WHAT WOULD HE SUGGEST AS A SOLUTION
YOU THINK RON WILL SAY "LET HIM DIE??
IS THAT WHAT YOU PRESSTITUTE MEDIA R UPTO AGAIN??
ALSO THIS GUY WILL SAVE ON TAXES IF RON WINS SO HE CAN PUT HALF OF THAT IN HEALTHCARE, OR SOMEONE LOVES HIM TO CARE OF HIM
ashwadhwani 2 months ago
the government we have now thinks that healthcare is "a good" and not a right. that's the problem. we have so many people in this country suffering from disease and injury while almost the entire world has embraced universal healthcare. we can not help that we become sick ...so why should we be made to believe that we must earn the right to receive help? ron paul is just going to drive this country into the ground further.
bittysnack 3 months ago
@bittysnack Most health care costs is do to something people could avoid if THEY took care of themselves. Healthcare is a "product." Right now you can go to any hospital and get FREE care if it is an emergency. Illegals and many other people, do that all the time. So the argument about taking care of people that need it is false and a scare tactic people use for lack of actually understanding what they're talking about. Ron Paul will fix the mess we're in.
rbh1138 2 months ago
@rbh1138 so your saying that people should be able to prevent getting cancer or being hit by a drunk driver in the first place? mhm yeah ...in crazy world that TOTALLY makes sense. and i assure you that emergency care is NOT free. i had to be rushed to the hospital for a heart attack and let's just say the bill sent to me a few weeks later was not pretty. I don't know who's ass your pulling these statements out of, but you need to do some ACTUAL research on our system
bittysnack 2 months ago
@bittysnack It's amazing isn't it?
njanovic1980 3 weeks ago
@rbh1138 You don't get free care in the emergency room. You get a bill. And all of those unpaid ER bills are made up for via rising medical cost passed on to those who can pay or have insurance. So you are already paying for the care of those who have only the ER to resort to.
njanovic1980 3 weeks ago
USA has the capacity to supply ALL of its citizens with premium healthcare but why does it not? these companies dont give two shits about your health all they want is your money and hopefully you will never need their service. In Europe and Canada it works the other way around. Doctors do not deal with bills, doctors don't fight insurance companies. Everything is paid for by the people and FOR the people so they are free to practice what they want and how they want. Go to london and see it.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77 universal healthcare has never worked in any system, people have only put up with it.
in a free market, where competition is high and taxes are low, there is more money in the pockets of the people to afford services and more money for corporations to drop prices to compete with.
i agree our healthcare needs reform, but it needs to start with our government, we need to get rid of the lobbyists and the politicians who serve themselves instead of the people who voted for them.
Dread556 4 months ago
For all the people that are opposed to UHC. Why is it that USA is the ONLY western country WITHOUT a universal healthcare system or a public option? Greed has infiltrated this country so much and it has brainwashed these "free market" people so much that they can't even see their own fellow humans suffering. "Free market" did not make USA as strong it is right now. SLAVERY, CHEAP LABOR, UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES, AND EXPLOITATION OF HUMANS made USA the USA of today.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77 your a fool if you believe that.
slavery only ever stagnated the economy of any civilization
unfair business practices are due in part to corporate lobbyists getting away with buying politicians, you get rid of them and capitalism thrives.
after the civil war, during a time when slavery was abolished and taxes were low, and we were without socialized programs, the united states encountered an economic boom like none other.
get educated.
Dread556 4 months ago
@Dread556
It's such a relief to have another commenter that is educated and doesn't argue with brash assumptions backed by nothing. Thanks for joining the fight!
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot and its also such a relief that im not instantly criticized for my statement lol.
Dread556 4 months ago
The idea that the citizens of United Kingdom wants to get rid of their UHC system is absolutely ridiculous and it is the biggest propaganda run by American insurance companies. Go visit london and go to the hospital and ask if ANYONE would want "insurance", copays, bills, and lack of coverage for 15% of the population. people in London live in great economic conditions and they are not inhumane to suffering people in their country. Americans are pathetic human beings
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
healthcare is a FUCKING right...not a good... police do not serve you because you are richer, firefighters dont put out fires because you have more assets... its a public service... jsut like healthcare should be. now if you want breast implants then you can pay THAT yourself.. but essentials are needed by everyone
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
I WAS BORN IN THE UK, LIVED IN CANADA, LIVED IN AUSTRALIA... AMERICA HAS BY FAR THE WORST SYSTEM FOR HEALTHCARE.. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
killing people is ok (2nd amendment) but helping people is not?
KripDrip 6 months ago
healthcare is not a good it is a human right
kevinkards1 6 months ago
Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
kevinkards1 11 months ago
@kevinkards1 you realize that by accepting that, you support a society in which someone can rightly, correctly, and justly demand the things in that list while at the same time refusing the work or produce anything, or contribute to society in any way whatsoever. because human rights are owed to us just because we're human, we shouldn't have to work for them. the society you propose is unsustainable. none of the things in that list are rights. speech, assembly, liberty, etc are rights. not those
Welsh77 6 months ago
maybe if you greedy bastards down at the insurance companies would start looking into research done in the 1900's by Dr. Ruth Drown maybe we could all get free health care but i guess the world doesn't want anyone to know about her or what she did
starks758 11 months ago
1:50
Stop fucking speaking for people with UHC ffs.
Everyone I know that is in those countries with UHC would never get rid of it. To even suggest it in most of those countries in political suicide, if not actual suicide.
mecher3k 1 year ago 2
Healthcare is a right, simple as that.
You are worst then every single evil thing and person combined if you think speech is a right but not healthcare.
I find it hilarious he is a "pro-lifer" but would doomed 100,000s if not millions to be fucked over.
Farther proving they care so much about the fetus, until the moment it pops out of the mother and then it's SOL.
mecher3k 1 year ago
People born into the world unable to work because of a challenge will simply be left to die with his way of things.
He fears the corrupt politicians which not every country is pested with like the US. His logic is based on the state the US is in right now and thus flawed. You can very well have a taxed payed health-care system.
blakkelure 1 year ago
Ron Paul is incorrect here. Norway is a perfect example of this..
Although I like Ron Paul, he fails when it comes to health-care. The corruption comes from profit and politics mixing.
blakkelure 1 year ago
@blakkelure I couldn't agree more (that corruption comes from the mixing of politics and profit).
ticket88 11 months ago
We already have freemarket healthcare and it does not work unless you have enough money------ duhhhh.
My family is told which dr, hospital, and pharmacies we have to use. Long waits for much needed referrals. so I am confused on what the hell Paul, teabaggers, and some commenter's here are talking about.
Health care has been a commodity for years now, and since it became about money it began failing, now totally failed. I am talking from being a medical professional and patient.
groundinghubris 1 year ago
Freemarket healthcare is the way to fix the system and to get costs to go down. Less regulation and more competition. I don't want Obama telling me when and where I can see a doctor. I have the right to a choice and Obamacare is going to take away my right to choose.
sanpaco13 2 years ago
@sanpaco13
Tell your insurance about these rights you claim you have and see how long they laugh.
HConstantine 1 year ago
@HConstantine ??? What are you even talking about? The right to choice is one of the unalienable rights on which our nation is founded. The point is that we need to increase the ability to choose, not restrict it. As you point out, it is already restricted but not because of the insurance company, rather because there is already too much government involvement and restriction. Obamacare does not fix the problem. It exacerbates it.
sanpaco13 1 year ago
listening to Ron Paul's comment from the past probably Ron Paul will be the happiest man if slavery were to be reintroduced in the US.
This is the guy who regularly slams Abe Lincoln for ending slavery and had several White Supremacists running his 2008 presidential campaign such as Randy Grey, Don Black, David Duke etc.
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
Really? Where can I find him saying those things? I'm curious.
mikejackson4ever 2 years ago
you have any proof to back your
comment?
ive never heard of Ron Paul say one thing
racist/sexist.
the movie Bruno was a fucking joke to
ic300x 2 years ago
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The subject has not been thoroughly examined and people have not been fully informed. I agree in socialized medicine, but only if the gobernment itself manages it, like it does with other agencies, in order to drive the costs of health care and general operation down. That is how it is done in other countries.
Gibig the money to insurance companies is the most expensive alternative and does not address the main issues - high cost of medical services/related goods and lack of coverage to all USA
werebear1 2 years ago
How can someone have life liberty and the persuit of happiness without health and food. This idea that other countries are suffering with poor health care because of government intervention is pure BS. Look at the facts and not the propaganda. Something I'm use to Ron Paul usually doing. I don't know why he has to include this BS in his health care argument. I'm sure he has good ideas otherwise.
InterConnectY 2 years ago
The subject has not been thoroughly examined and people have not been fully informed. I agree in socialized medicine, but only if the gobernment itself manages it, like it does with other agencies, in order to drive the costs of health care and general operation down. That is how it is done in other countries.
Gibig the money to insurance companies is the most expensive alternative and does not address the main issues - high cost of medical services/related goods and lack of coverage to all USA
werebear1 2 years ago
the idea that we need to be legislated by natural law is meaningless, we are humans we look to each other so nobody will be left in need, that is why we are separeted from the animals,
bastian114 2 years ago
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Obama's healtcare program will expand the privet HMO & Insurance industry which is going broke because of bad investments in the Stock Market. We will be forced to buy and carry insurance if we want medical treatment. A medical panel will determine who will get medical treatment based of cost effectiveness. Obama's program is just another Wall Street bailout paid for by us. Obama is a Wall Street prostitute that will give head to get ahead. Google Video: OTC PM Report September 10, 2009
gkgreger 2 years ago
PrincessChristy: The Constitution precludes regulating the free expression of religion. It would have to be a 2/3 majority of each house of congress and 2/3 of the state legislatures to change that. Not at all likely. Read your Constitution.
4GooMan 2 years ago
PrincessChristy: Taking of another life is NOT taking away the right of another to life. Stretching the definition a bit much there. How many die because they don't have healthcare? Please give the source for the statistic you will be giving. The biggest taking of life by doctors is murder of unborn children.
Each state can pass whatever law they jolly well please. Read your Constitution. A law based upon a common value hardly makes it "religious".
4GooMan 2 years ago
hi hi.just wanted to add for you to reread the constitution yourself and see list how many we currently are not following.. that passed down from bush administration down to obama's.mainly the patriot act... because our country was just fine with protection.for 9/11 happened once.. instead of every day or every other day.. before the event.. besides the fact 9/11 was intentional for they was warn by israel and took no action (which by the way israel sent a camera crew to record it)jersey journal
shadowlesswalls 2 years ago
PrincessChristy: That averages 20,000. Damn, that sure seems a whole lot easier to believe than the bullshit about 50 million needing help. And a whole lot easier to pay for. Why don't you suggest that number to Nazi Pelosi?
4GooMan 2 years ago
But presumably rationing would happen anyway under a free-market system too?
GodalonethroughQuran 2 years ago
To all the [health care et al] industry whoring politicians who are lying, treacherous and, of course, in cahoots with the industry titans:
If people have not figured it out yet, I'm happy to spell it out here: [Profit-driven] Health Care "insurance," including the pharmaceutical companies, is one of the biggest and most profitable SCAMS in history...
ChristinaMarlowe 2 years ago
PrincessCharlene: I don't need to argue. This republic can pass any law the majority wants to and if the courts uphold it it is enforceable. Who said anything about a religious law?
Just how many people die because of lack of money? Please give the reference for whatever statistic you use.
4GooMan 2 years ago
A majority of people can decide murder is wrong. A majority can also decide promotion of homosexuality is wrong. This is not establishing a religion in either case.
4GooMan 2 years ago
Hey Ron, maybe you might want to take a trip a few miles North to one of the most developed and democratic countries on the face of the Earth... or maybe you're afraid of the socialist boogeyman pulling the plug on your old ass because funds could be better allocated? Oh please, you republican fearmongers have turned your nation into a nation of fat ignorant cowboys who are afraid of their own shadow. Shame on you for trying to stop legislation taking America out of the stone age...
toothpaste100 2 years ago
ToothRot100: Then why are so many Canadians coming here for treatment they can't get up there?
4GooMan 2 years ago
I've never met anyone who has done that sir.
The fallacy in the debate between a privatized system and a socialized system, in regards to quality of care, is that a privatized system increases quality of treatment. Sure, it ensures excellent treatment for the privileged who can afford it, but it costs the poor and uninsurable their lives. Health care is a MORAL issue and if you stand firmly behind a privatized system, then you must be accountable for the attrition of the poor.
toothpaste100 2 years ago
Under a true free market system, the insurance companies wouldn't be regulated nearly as much as they are now, which is the reason why insurance costs are so high. Under capitalism, costs go down while quality goes up. Plus, if you want to be "Moral" about it, the determining factor to who gets coverage would be how much money you have, which is an indicator of how productive you've been. Stealing from people to provide health insurance to others is about as immoral as you can get.
SomeUsefulIdiot 2 years ago 7
First of all there are such things like "true free market". For "true free market" to exist any form of govt have to cease to exist. If there is any existence of any form of govt, there will be interference directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally.
Under you 'free market' there will no such thing as Interstate Highways or railway systems across the nation since there will be no such as public lands.
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
Since you described providing health insurance to every citizen as immoral since tax is equivalent of stealing I guess you should immediately stop using Interstate Highway system as well since it was built and is maintained by "stolen" money from someone else.
I'll be more than happy to see you get exempt you from all taxes in return for banning you using all public infrastructures like Interstate Highway, electric grid, public water supply etc.
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
Not correct. The only proper function of government is the police to catch criminals, an army to protect against invaders, and a court system to enforce contracts and protect against fraud. You can have a limited government and a free market; get your facts straight.
About the interstates/highways, etc., there are worse things to do with tax dollars than infrastructure, but have you considered privatizing roads?
SomeUsefulIdiot 2 years ago
So basically what you want is a socialist system to protect your "free market" ? Police, courts and army are inherently socialist in nature, arent they ?
How about creating police, courts and military out of 'voluntary donation' rather than force people to pay who do not want to use those services. Should not people have right to opt-out if dont want to use them. I hardly use those services why should I pay for your use ?
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
To me, you're the first person that's ever implied that courts, police, and the military is a socialist idea.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what point you're trying to make. What would be your solution to all this mess then?
SomeUsefulIdiot 2 years ago
You wrote, "To me, you're the first person that's ever implied that courts, police, and the military is a socialist idea."
Socialist idea in the most simplistic form is, "Everyone pays to provide equal access to services (and/or goods) for everyone."
If you didnt know that basic idea behind socialism, it is pretty useless to discuss with you why courts, police, and the military is a socialist idea.
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
O.K. But there is a HUGE difference between basing health care, and an entire socioeconomic system based on socialism, and a police, military,and court system.
The police, army, and courts are basic functions of a government. You pay taxes to support these things depending on what country you live in. It's written in the constitution.
SomeUsefulIdiot 2 years ago
Under 'true free market' there will be no such thing as trademark, patent, copyright protection by the govt. Why should everyone else be forced to pay for the protection of your private business property like trademark, patent, copyright etc ?
Just do it with your own money and dont steal my money through govt to protect your private property.
WorldTravelDude 2 years ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot
The costs are high because health insurance is a virtual monopoly. If it were deregulated it would cost much more. Heath care is rationed now. Its a choice between rationing by wealth, or rationing by urgency of medical need. What about the corporate bureaucrats whose job it now is to deny you the health care you paid for with your insurance premiums?
HConstantine 1 year ago
@HConstantine
Deregulation would tear down barriers restricting firms from offering insurance and and medical care. The surplus of companies would lead to competitively lower prices while they compete to offer the best care. You're second sentence there is wrong. Think about it from an economists' point of view. YOur ignoring key factors.
SomeUsefulIdiot 1 year ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot wow are you like satan... "stealing" lets say you are fresh out of college and struggling with payments so you put off health insurance... you get in a car accident on your way to work... you are paralyzed and need expensive nerve fusion treatments... what should happen to that person? your fucking free market would let him die... but as a human being i wouldnt mind sparing a few hundred bucks or thousand bucks to help people like him..your such a immoral idiot.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
Well he'd certainly have to pay for treatment in some way. What is more likely to happen in a truly free society (which we don't have) is that a charity hospital would take care of him. They'd be supported by those who are charitable in society. And trust me, there would be a lot more charity if the government stopped plundering the wealth from the populace.
I personally wouldn't mind to spare a few hundred bucks either, but I don't believe i should be FORCED to subsidize him
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot "charitable society" dont make me laugh... do you also believe in "trickle down effect". the ignorance and inhumane nature of american society stuns me. did you guys forget that these are your fellow countrymen, brothers, and sisters. if you came to great britain i would not mind for you to get FREE treatment in our system if there is ANYTHING wrong with you. I would not want you to go looking for charities in desperate times. You people make me sick.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
I don't believe simply because I live in a country with other people that I have an obligation to provide for their "needs". The cell phone industry is barely regulated compared to health care, and the costs come down while quality goes up. The same would happen for health care if government got out of the picture entirely. You're type of "reasoning" is repeating all the collectivist sophistries you hear on TV. Try reading a book buddy
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot ... collectivist sophistries :D wow... how can you compare cellphones to someones surgery? a cell phones is not a matter of life or death. Healthcare is not a need its a basic human right. what of this do you not understand? the same would not happen to healthcare because we saw what the healthcare companies did to regular people that they were supposed to cover. I have read many books, many articles, on the possibilities of USA being able to afford one of the best UHCs
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
No, it's not a right. You don't have a "right" to the services of anyone else. The issue of who is doing the providing is purposely evaded by today's "intellectuals". And I'm convinced from the short exchange I've had with you that you'll never understand what true laissez-faire is. For the last time, healthcare companies have not been truly free from government interference, which is what creates distortions in the market for health care.
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot but your sir still believe a completely free market can exist. you are just as delusional as ron paul, that is why he gets only 5% of votes, he is too idealistic. may be in his head it might work but in the real world there is nothing to stop companies with better funds monopolizing the healthcare business and decide if you are going to live or die. why not take out the middle man and pay for your coverage through the government.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77 if you believe that your government is incompetent enough to not be able to protect its people from the wrong doings of others, then why trust them with deciding how your going to live your life?
Dread556 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
Monopolies can only exist with government aid in the form of licensing, patents, subsidies, and regulations that prevent new business because of too high of starting costs. Try to argue with your mind and not emotion, you sound scared and irrational
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
To add, socialized heathcare, like any other type of socialization is impractical, immoral, and just plain bad economics. Maybe you should do some research on history and economics before you start comparing me to satan simply because I want to live in a society where I'm free to keep the fruits of my labor.
Now, do you have an intelligent response, or will you resort to name calling?
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot i gave you a very intelligent response.what is so wrong with making a nationalized healthcare that would streamline healthcare instead of healthcare being a business transaction. it works in ALL other industrialized nations but the USA? com on my friend you know this free market healthcare bull crap is just a way for the big boys to make more money off of people suffering. 50 million people CANT receive healthcare because they know they will go broke if they see a doctor.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
The current system is nowhere close to a free market. Government has been in the healthcare business a long time now. They produce monopolies by restricting sales across state lines, they subsidize otherwise non-profitable companies as well. Government breeds corruption and stagnation. So to say this is a free market shows your ignorance.
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
@SomeUsefulIdiot you sir have no idea what you are talking about. if there were no regulations on "healthcare" companies i can assure you that they will chase profits more than actually helping people. that is why it is immoral to put profits before someones needs for survival. A person i know went bankrupt because in 2005 his insurance company DENIED him to pay for the ambulance ride. He was 21 and in college. how can he afford a 10,000 dollar ambulance ride.
berbatovinho77 4 months ago
@berbatovinho77
I would argue that chasing profits and helping people are one in the same. Especially if we lived in a free society
SomeUsefulIdiot 4 months ago
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@SomeUsefulIdiot "the determining factor to who gets coverage would be how much money you have, which is an indicator of how productive you've been" So a person who happens to have been born into a fortune and then inherits that family fortune was "productive" by being born into money? Just cut to the chase and say what you believe, that a person's life is only as valuable as their checking account.
njanovic1980 3 weeks ago
I know plenty of people who have gone to other countries for health care from the US. There are many reasons for doing this but it usually because it is too expensive here. I also once dated a Canadian women who's main reason she didn't want to live in the US was because of health care. And Iv'e heard plenty of people from other countries who have single payer or socialized medicine (which are very different things by the way) who are very happy with there health care.
InterConnectY 2 years ago
InterConnectY: The expense here can be cut considerably if tort reform were enacted.
In any case, it's just plain wrong to force EVERYBODY into a government program. The same incompetent bureaucracy that has bankrupted Social Security and Medicare is hardly the entity to trust with new resposibilities.
4GooMan 2 years ago
i love it when they say money is the only reward. fuck. ron paul. he's still too grounded :(
part2themovie 2 years ago
No, calling someone else a liar is indeed simply false. Though authors and politicians want a Founding Fathers of non-Christians, alas, this is a myth as much as the man on a moon. The Founding Fathers were overwhelming Christian and believed in morals an values. I challenge any legitimate history to discount this. Also, freedom of worship and an inability to mention God in a government setting is a relatively new concept.
dcokeman 2 years ago
Proscribing a state religion is a far cry from passing a law that a majority from many religions agree upon. States gave powers to the National government, not the other way around. The states have retained the right to proscribe a particular religion. But, wisely, not have exercised it nor even thought of it for over 150 years. Now, you are free to apologize for the insanity accusation.
4GooMan 2 years ago
Lie? Pretty strong language. I assume you are prepared to quote the part of the Constitution that separates church and state. And remember, the post before you referred to the prohibition of enacting a law respecting a religion, which doesn't preclude congress from legis;ating moral issues. C'mon now, where's the quote? Cat got your tongue?
4GooMan 2 years ago
Everyone has the responsibility to actively practice preventative health for themselves. If they don't they have the right to the consequences. Nobody has a right to suck the public tit to subsidize their unhealthy lifestyle. Nobody has the right to suck the public tit to artificially extend a life about to end.
4GooMan 2 years ago
LOL, stop walking outside. Stop breathing the air you and I help pollute. Stop drinking the water. Stop sitting on your ass and watching stupid tv. Stop growing old. Stop having illnesses due to growing old. No amount of exercise or eating well can stop you from aging. The word "responsibility" has been so over used by you idiots it has no meaning anymore. Preventive care is another excuse for you to use to be an ass.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
MedicatedLoonie: If you took the time to realize you are responsible for the consequences of your actions (unless you can pass the responsibility off onto a sucker) you might understand why many are resistant to this huge transfer of responsibility. Everybody gets old. When it's my time to die, I won't be sucking the public tit for a few more years of a substandard life.
4GooMan 2 years ago
After how long you have been on this planet you still don't get it. Please die like a responsible fuck. If I could I would kill you myself :)
Taking responsibility I am
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
OverMedicatedShitForBrains: Don't let a thing but fear stop you sonny boy.
4GooMan 2 years ago
And I'm not joking you piece of shit. *evil smile*
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
MedicalEmergency: Whatsamatter, sissy boy? Ain't got the balls to try out your trash talking?
4GooMan 2 years ago
LOL...ah, are you still trying to amuse me? Little ole me :) Run along old sissy man, play time is over. For a single cell organism who verbally and weakly defends The Republic you should have the understanding I have every right to end the game as I wish, as did you. But since you enjoy shoving your ignorance on others I doubt you carry the "responsibility" of thought to understand that. Not used to rejection are you...aw, so sad :) Good day Mr. 4GooMan. It was a pleasure.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
Medical-Ain't: I see you've avoided producing statistics for how many people die for lack of money. So I guess I can understand you taking your leave. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. And since you are the one pushing your agenda, I suppose you mean that you're the one pushing ignorance. Hasta la bye-bye. Glad you had fun.
4GooMan 2 years ago
What does anything I said have anything to do with the framers being christian or deist (in my opinion they are both outlandish beliefs). I was simply saying the term "separation of church and state" is not mentioned anywhere in the constitution, nor is it inferred in the first amendment. Enforcement of religious laws? What are you talking about?
VictoryCough 2 years ago
Separation of church and state is never mentioned in the constitution, its something progressives made up. States should have a right to honor a religion, congress should make no laws regarding religion or prohibiting religion, so it seems it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to ban a state or local government from posting the 10 commandments or putting up christmas decorations.
VictoryCough 2 years ago
The private market can do wonderful things if the government stops meddling in all of the other aspects of the economy. Healthcare costs have risen because the Lords of Finance want them to. They are squeezing us so that we will relinquish our rights. You've heard those "volunteer" ads on the radio for Obama? They won't be volunteer based for long. -A libertarian
Harboggles 2 years ago
Medical care costshave risen because people don't want to be responsible for their own actions - Obesity, Venereal Disease, Dope, Alcohol and Tobacco addiction, Avoidance of Exercise. Sex Changes, Plastic Surgery, Viagara. Organ Transplants at over $100,000 a pop to get a few lousy years extra of "life".
4GooMan 2 years ago
You finally realized life is a joke, huh old man, lol. You realized there is no light at the end of the tunnel :) No god, no Jesus....just the lights going out forever. Everything you worked for, all that "responsibility" for naught....HAhahHAhahAHhAha...but conservatism will save you though right. Yet you still cling to this shame called life. Have a nice day :)
I wish we could kill each other without "consequences". Then we wouldn't have to worry about all that crap you mentioned. Idiot.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
OverlyMedicatedSchmuck: You are hardly coherent and deviate quite distantly from the topic at hand. Whatever that medication is you're imbibing, you've had overly much.
4GooMan 2 years ago
MedicalNightmare: Gosh, aren't you the cheerful one. Are you depressed all the time, or just when you try to think?
4GooMan 2 years ago
LOL, ROFL, LMAO....Do you need my attention that badly? The way I see it as long as you think you're bothering me you're not shoveling shit to someone else. :)
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
So what did we do 1000 years ago when there was no health care system?
Harboggles 2 years ago
What did we do ? We died at the average age of 45.
norinco77b 2 years ago
He's against gay marriage, but he would never raise a finger to legislate it. That's the difference.
Harboggles 2 years ago
Link please. Also he personally believes that there shouldn't be marriage licenses and that this religious ceremony should have no place in the government. Though he doesn't vote to ban gay marriage or allow it as an amendment because he thinks that making an amendment to enforce the government's definition of marriage is silly and stupid.
You fail.
JacobR248 2 years ago
I don't know about all of you but I have a problem with my tax dollors being spent on abortion ( currently the most preformed operation). You can look at the efficiancy of which great britains health care is run and it heartlessness. 5000 elderly die a year due to loack of beds. people are regularly denied tretment. This bill will uethanas the mentaly and termenaly ill patiants in the name of efficiancy.
allmanboat 2 years ago
How did Saskatchewan accomplish single-payer non-profit public medical insurance in 1940s ?
Tommy Douglas and Mouseland.
Check it out.
RedToryProductions 2 years ago
A non profit healthcare system? That is frightening. What is the incenstive to make doctors work, be honest and effective? Death threats?
fergus247 2 years ago 2
I too agree socialism is bad and leads to less liberty. Many European countries are more heavily bogged down with legislation and taxes than we are, at this point. We are getting dangerously close to Europe though. I have a French student staying with us and he is buying Chanel products here to take back to France. These products are made in France - but cheaper for him to buy here in America. Levi Jeans cost him about $130 in France - less than $40 here in the US. Just 2 small examples.
castleladyohio 2 years ago
I am of the opinion that individuals should be responsible for their own lives, their own actions, their own expenses- while governments is responsible for protecting the individual rights of its citizens.
The more goods that become rights, the more socialism you get. Socialism is a very bad thing, because by its very nature, it leads to the degradation of liberty.
diggingforgold 2 years ago
RP for PREZ!
isfahelww 2 years ago 2
I would like to hear your reasons why you think that to be so.
mikethetiger 2 years ago
Ron, get a real microphone please!
mlegrand 2 years ago
This is a phone recording.
Call 888-322-1414 for original quality.
diggingforgold 2 years ago
Dial: 1-800-Eat Shit
4GooMan 2 years ago
Right, because everything you agree with on the Internet is the truth. Is that about the gist of it?
bradmanz 2 years ago
Glad it's a right where I live. :-)
panthera50 2 years ago
☆☆☆☆☆
Ron Paul is so Awesome !
000stryke3000 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ron Paul has a job, health care and education paid by his rich family .... he doesn't goive a shit about Americans. Typical Republican and Libertarian.... they care about USA but they don't give a shit about American citizens
MrFreedomdemocracy 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Health Care and Education are civil and human rights. Only healthy and educated countries are happy and productive countries. This is the reason why capitalism died sonsumed by its own consumism, credit card debt, home foreclosure and personal bankrupcy for health care expenses.
MrFreedomdemocracy 2 years ago
That's a bit harsh Generalization. That's like saying all Democrats want Fascist size Governments. It's not worth debating you since you label Republicans and Libertarians don't care about Citizens.
What if I said that, because you don't think people should own guns, that you don't care about the constitution? You feel like you want to punch me because from your side, that sounds extremely stupid.
You can't think government can give us all these "needs". They only limit them even more.
Betty5150 2 years ago
Libertarians love everybody that's why we want smaller government. So people can take care of each other.
Luigi84289 2 years ago 2
What the good Dr. Paul fails to mention is that we are already paying for the uninsured through higher premiums and emergency room costs. Why would he leave that analysis out of his discussion if he were truly being intellectually honest?
ulstermandc 2 years ago
maybe because due to recording time .
narutofan1108 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is why i have libertarians. They prefer to have guns over healthcare. Pathetic.
ocelot814 2 years ago
Yes countess, you do have a right to healthcare. You also have a responsibility to pay for it.
What else would you like me to pay for? Your food? Your car? Your home?
I'm guessing when you go to the mall you don't expect to get all your goodies for free.
Grow up.
itsneverthegovsfault 2 years ago 2
itsneverthegovsfault, Why is it that most arguments against health care reform go off the deep end. " food? car? home?"
Get off the band wagon that people who don't have "things" want to reach in your pocket and take it. Please stop propagating the fallacy that poor people are lazy and want to eat off your dime. Sure there are some abuser (usury abound by the pharma and insurance co.) but mostly not.
BTW if I was hungry and unable to obtain food, would you not give me a morsel of bread?
countess1900 2 years ago
I would give you bread and the rest of the meal to go with it, because I chose to do so. Not because I was forced at gunpoint by government.
bradmanz 2 years ago 2
Good to see that you too have a kind heart. But the pharma and insurance companies are gouging and are glutinous and grows fat pocketed CEO's and managers by over charging you for treatments (pills and more pills but never a cure) while you are also expected to offer a kind hand to the needy.
By the way, your surely are not one of those that err in thinking that: if a person is poor (lacking financial means) then he/she is lazy?
countess1900 2 years ago
There will always be poor among us when we are lazy enough to think a problem is solved by a hand out. Even our disabled are of worth and can work in some way to pay. The right thing to do is teach a man to fish, not give him the right to take your own fish.
ssciort 2 years ago 2
The fact that some view health-care as a "right" while having no problem denying the right to life, speaks volumes.
mikethetiger 2 years ago 2
mikethetiger. You are an idiot. Do you want the right of life then remove wars, guns and death penalty.
MrFreedomdemocracy 2 years ago
I don't support the death penalty or unjust wars but thank you for your eloquent rebuttal that has little to nothing to do with my comment.
mikethetiger 2 years ago
Removing guns would jeopardize the right to life. And BTW, the right to life is one of the three basic principles this nation was founded on. Remember that phrase...'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.' What part of that does not endorse an explicit right to life?
bradmanz 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
We are an evolved compassionate civilization (not barbaric) with technological advancements who no longer lead the weak and old out into the wilderness to die. Health care is a right.
countess1900 2 years ago
BRAVO!!!!!!
MrFreedomdemocracy 2 years ago
Ron Paul has finally reveled himself. Doctors make u wait 1.5 hour to see him. If your condition does not fit into the 5 ailments he's knows he will prescribes a pill and says lets wait to see if you feel better. He spends 15 minutes with me then charges $175.
54 billion dollar has been spend on cancer research and still no real cure. That is ridiculous.
The insurance companies already dictate what medical treatment you are allowed to get and you can't do anything about it.
countess1900 2 years ago
Healthcare is a right, becuase if your dead you can't do anything else.
eye7view 2 years ago
RP is right. In that to me it's shocking how many people in the US don't understand what a right really is.
If you have a right to free speech it's because it does not obligate some one else to listen.
If you have a right to a free car you then obligate some one else to go get you this car.
Simple really, hard to understand why Americans don't understand this basic truth.
The rights of all Americans are being stripped from them to suport an unworkable system.
anarchylogic 2 years ago 5
Excellent article. Good job, Dr. Paul!
devildogmre 2 years ago 4
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Don't let goverment fool you into thinking you will get something for nothing. Someone will have to pay for this.
codeman1979 2 years ago 5
A Government solution to a problem is usually worse than the problem itself.
Blackjack555 2 years ago 4
a my tantzuem na palube tonuschego korablia
i napevaem tra-la-la-la-la
How appropriate
sinitskyd 2 years ago
Government is so involved in health care that it's forced doctors to be paper pushers instead of health care providers. A lot of them have retired because of this. Imagine a town with one plumber and another town with ten plumbers. In which town do you think plumbing services will be cheaper? Now imagine the government steps in to control the cost of plumbing in the one plumber town. What will happen to the quality of the plumbing, assuming that the plumber doesn't retire? Same with healthcare.
peterscottfrost 2 years ago
If you think things half way through, Ron Paul makes sense.
If you think things all the way through, you find yourself supporting the Judeo-Christian World Order.
They will install a universal health program *when* we can afford it.
Just think of how it will free employers from providing health care...and, more importantly, how it will free us from depending on an employer for health care. We will be free to work part time if we want...or multiple part time jobs if we want.
LiveWisely 2 years ago
NO expansion of the state will make you more free.
mn8aol 2 years ago 7
Amen.
Betty5150 2 years ago
Comment removed
Hylanvahr 2 years ago
So the government creates HMO's, and health care providers respond by charging more. Customers respond by getting more and more insurance to spread the cost risk around. Health care responds again by charging more. Now the solution, according to the Obama legislation, is to force everyone to get insurance? What do you think the health care industry will respond by doing?
TinCanToNA 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ron Paul said this? I couldn't disagree with him more. What kind of a doctor would say that health care should only be for the wealthy few? Apparently not a very conscientious doctor. I just can't support Ron Paul anymore after hearing this. I just can't. I was disappointed to hear him say this.
burnindownthehouse 2 years ago
Listen and think about what Ron Paul is saying here, "First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a right to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you." This is the essence of what Liberty means: To reject the use of force. Don't have a knee-jerk reaction to this (logic)...use your brain. There is a connection between the welfare/warefare state
radiofriendly 2 years ago 4
Some look at prison as three guaranteed square meals a day. I would rather eat bark and be free.
mn8aol 2 years ago 4
He's a doctor! He knows what will work and what will not. I'd listen to him before Pelosi or Obama on this one! I know we need to fix it, but, going to a gov't plan IS NOT the answer.
mtorres1970 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Food, housing, and healthcare is a not just a good, it's a need, without it we would die. Government should do it's best to provide welfare in anyway possible. Unfortunately our government has turned into a bureaucracy that's hurting the poor and middle class. I agree with Ron Paul that government should leave the free market alone, cut spending, and lower taxes but government should provide help to those that need it. In my state of California there is people who are living in tent cities.
FireGuyX 2 years ago
I would learn more about inflation - and the federal reserve you have to understand that then you will understand why people are in tent cites your government wants them -- the government doesnt care about you or me
popomp1 2 years ago
I'm terribly sorry about the way things are going in CA. I live in TX - one of the very few States that is currently running in the black - and it's not because we're rich over here by any mean! It's mainly because our legislature, by it's constitutional mandate, must balance only pass a balanced budget. Perhaps CA residents might consider placing this restriction on its own gov't. I'm not trying to pass judgement - it's a suggestion for a step in the right direction.
mtorres1970 2 years ago 3
I feel for you Because Jersey has the same Problems that You do, I believe it won't be long before we're in your shoes. but let's be honest about what got us into this mess. an over generous welfare system, High Illegal Immigrant Population (becouse of the over generous welfare system) the loss of Jobs & high Property Taxes ( because someone's got to Pay for the over generous welfare system). another thing we have is high car Insurance because our Illegals don't carry Insurance
davidpark68 2 years ago
On a brighter note we can accept our losses & move to states that are faring better........ unless the rest of the country is forced to become like California & Jersey by adopting our failed policies
davidpark68 2 years ago
I believe in a sovereign God. God has an order to things, it is his order and we don't have much of a say in the matter. When a nation is out of God's order, like a rubberband it will snap back. California has embraced one transformational marxist policy after another and the policies are going to snap back.
mn8aol 2 years ago
So how much of my money do you think you need for your needs?
dreamwhileyousleep 2 years ago
Our welfare system is one of the most least effective welfare systems in the world, as a matter fact it's totally useless, it's a bureaucracy. Do you honestly think the money were taxed from goes to poor people or I'm getting a dime from your paycheck?
FireGuyX 2 years ago
Easy 10 Fires,
No, I don't believe YOU are getting one thin dime of my money. According to the Grace Report, from the 80's, revenues collected from income goes to pay the interest owed the fed for printing those fancy dollar bills out of thin air. YOUR money comes from China. or USED to come from China. Sorry. Call your congressman. If you don't have a cellphone, one may be provided by the state free of charge. They do it in my home state. Hooray stimulus!
dreamwhileyousleep 2 years ago 2
Are you saying Chinese money is being used to pay for welfare programs in this country? And for your information I'm not receiving any welfare benefits, except for the student loan I have to pay off.
FireGuyX 2 years ago
No worries Fire,
Glad to hear that you're not on the dole and I wouldn't damn you if you NEEDED it but limits should be enforced with drug screens and maybe even labor of some sort. NO FREE RIDES! A large percentage of people choose to live their entire lives like this when many, if not most, could do some sort of menial work. And yes, foreign governments fund this lavish lifestyle we all enjoy and the fed prints the rest. Don't kid yourself. Google it.
dreamwhileyousleep 2 years ago 2