Dr J Vernon McGee Q&A - ULTRA-DISPENSATIONALISM

[GodspromisesRyes]

"dispensationalism" as it is taught is a lie and one of the worst because it is an entire consuming cancer of lies. The mystery of God concerning Christ and His church- gentiles fellow partakers- one new man in Christ- Christ in you the hope of glory does not end until the 7th trumpet according to rev 10:7. There is not two bodies but ONE NEW MAN. There is no time when the division will again be made between jew and gentile. Christ died to break down the wall and dispensationalism builds it back

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

I see your postion and I will correct myself. "Circimcised" Gentiles (proselytes), could enter into the "Court of the Gentiles", but NO FURTHER, because of the "middle wall of partition". Cornelius was an "uncircumcised God fearing" Gentile and could NOT enter the "Court", period. In BOTH cases, the Gentile was SEPARATED from the JEW. Historically, within "the CHURCH", when did this SEPARATION stop? It stopped with Paul's preaching (ROM 10:12) and the AFFIRMATION in Acts 15, by Peter and James.

[ShownMercy]

@JONAH222NCSGAZ..... The "middle wall of Partition" was torn down at the cross. The old covenant between God and Israel ended with the death of the testator. Heb 9:15-16. Just because the temple was not destroyed for another 40 years, the new covenant started with resurrection of Christ.

Christ told the 12, "You shall be witness of ME" (the resurrected Jesus Christ) in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth"....

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@ShownMercy JER 31:33 is the NEW COVENANT that God will make with Israel, exclusively; the Gentiles will have to do this: ZEC 8:23 and JN 12:20-22. The "veil", at the time of the cross, was rent, indicating JUDGMENT. The NC was "extended" to Israel, as seen in ACTS 2. The parameters of JER 31:33 and ZEC 8:23 were still in effect. These "conditions" still held, until Acts 15 when something previously "unknown" was preached by Paul, 1 COR 2:7. The "no difference" CHURCH was the mystery, EPH 3:1-9

[Thunkful2]

Now Manc: there is no such a thing as "The Gentile Church" vs. some other. There is only one Universal Church, where neither Jew nor Greek is significant. Yes, during Christ had a ministry to Jews, not gentiles before the cross. But His Great Commission after the cross is to all the nations, given before Pentecost.

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@Thunkful2 You are correct in saying that there is no "Gentile Church". You are incorrect in saying, "no gentiles before the cross", see RAHAB, RUTH, etc. Yet, there was a definite distinction between the Jew and the Gentile. The question then is, "When did God begin to make 'NO DIFFERENCE' between Jew and Gentile?" The answer will be obvious when we see WHO first proclaimed the message. Paul first preached it, years after "Pentecost", not Peter nor the eleven. Grace is not in the so called GC.

[Thunkful2]

@JONAH222NCSGAZ I mean that in Christ's earthly ministry, he was not sent but to the lost sheep of Israel. Yes, there was an isolated instance w/ the Syro-Phoenecian woman. I am not addressing any pre-incarnate ministry of Christ. Actually Peter went to Gentile Cornelius. The Great Commission Christ gave before He died takes in all nations.

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@Thunkful2 Acts 10 is already years after the "GC" was given and, not so "coincidently", after Saul's conversion. Cornelius was a "proselyte" to Judaism BEFORE Peter went to him. There were Gentile "proselytes" in Acts 2:10. But, between Acts 2 and Acts 10 there was a definite "distinction" made between Jew (believer) and Gentile (believer). The "middle wall of partition" was STILL IN EFFECT. It is not until Peter's VISION and Paul's later REVELATIONS that "no difference" is made, hence Acts 15.

[Thunkful2]

GAZ

What is ur proof that Corny was a proselyte? I don't think so, for if he had been, Peter would have had no trouble entering his house.

The term "Jew" is still valid in Paul's life, as he called himself a Jew. In fact from what he says, you would have to trust Christ as Savior to be a true Jew. Yet in the body of Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek. (similar to males vs females).

To convince me you will have to lay out detailed proof. Just saying things won't cut it.

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@Thunkful2 Proof ? Acts 10:22 and the HISTORICAL fact of a "Court of the Gentiles" where "proselytes" could enter, but no further, on PENALTY of DEATH. Ephesians 2:14 speaks of this "middle wall of partition", which represented the "difference" God made between the "believing" circumcised Jew and the "believing" uncircumcised Gentile (proselyte). Peter was "prepared" by God in Acts 10, for the yet future REVELATION to be given by Paul with respect to "no difference", "no proselytes", IN CHRIST.

[Thunkful2]

GAZ, I wait for proof that Corny was a proselyte. acts 10:22 "And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee."

10:22 has no word "proselyte" in it. To be a proselyte requires circumcision. Corny was a "God-fearer," a gentile who recognized YHWH as God, not a convert to Judaism.

[ShownMercy]

@JONAH222NCSGAZ.... To say that Paul was the first to proclaim the message of the Gospel is absolutely ignorance on your part.. Paul himself says the churches of Judea were "in Christ" before Paul ever stepped foot in Judea. Gal 1:22..

Paul also said that Andronicus and Junias were "in Christ" before he was. Rom 16:7. If Paul was the first to proclaim the message, how are all these "in Christ" before him!!

Wake up.

God bless.

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@ShownMercy Paul was "absolutely" the FIRST to preach the "gospel of the grace of God." In that gospel there is "no difference" between JEW (circumcised or not) and GENTILE (uncircumcised or not). The GOSPEL of the KINGDOM goes back to the OT promises given exclusively to the nation of Israel. In that gospel there is a DEFINITE distinction made between Jew and Gentile. Why have Acts 15 if "no difference" was part of the KINGDOM gospel? Two DIFFERENT messages (gospels) and standings; ONE CHRIST.

[ShownMercy]

@JONAH222NCSGAZ... Maybe a study of the word "basileia" would shed some light on your "Gospel of the Kingdom" THEORY. The Kingdom of God has NOTHING TO DO WITH LAND. It is a RULE. "Behold, the RULE of God is at hand"! Or, if you prefer, "Behold, the REIGN of God is at hand"!

Gentiles are part of the NC, whether you like or not. Gal. 3:18&29

The same eternal promise given to Abraham, is given to me "in Christ".

[JONAH222NCSGAZ]

@ShownMercy Never said the Gentiles will not be part of the NC Kingdom. They WILL be there, but on the "condition" of "holding on to the skirt of a JEW". The "G. of the K." and the "K. of G." are similar. The former EMPHASIZES the PLACE of RULE, i.e. Jerusalem, GEN 15:18; MAT 19:28; REV 21. The latter EMPHASIZES the TYPE of RULE, i.e. Godly, ISA 9:6,7; LK 17:21; REV 22:13-15. This is what, John, Jesus, Peter,and Paul (initially) WERE preaching, but the Jews REJECTED it; ACTS 13:46, 18:6, 28:28.

[ShownMercy]

@JONAH222NCSGAZ..... Initially? Paul wrote of the of the Kingdom of God through all his epistles.

Rom 14:17, 1Cor 4:20, 6:9-10, 15:24,50, Gal 5:21, Eph 5:5, Col 1:13, 4:11, 1Thes 2:12, 2Thes 1:5, 2Tim 4:1,18.

The imaginary "dispensations" you have created are just that, imaginary.

Maybe you should read Harry Ironside's -" Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth"

[mancworzel]

in keeping the unity of the spirit in ephesians 4 there is only one BAPTISM and its not by water . and the gentile church did not begin at pentecost ,there were no gentiles present , and peter did not go to see cornilius till 8 yrs after pentecost , so just like you accept no circumcision now becuase its spiritual so is baptism now , no work of mans hands no more , the message was to jews when christ was on the earth , he even said to the apostles ,dont go into the way of the gentiles ,